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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 1:29 pm
I'm sorry Charlottesmom. I should have mentioned that it is good to provide a link when directly quoting from another site. If you are paraphrasing a theory that you read a somewhere else, then a link isn't necessary. I was happy to add one for you. Let's have fun here everyone. 
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 1:56 pm
Now that Bobby has been executed, and they did make a point to show us that three-way coalition in the beginning of the epi, I have to say Clay might have to be the #1 suspect as Mole. Even though I'm still keeping an eye on Victoria. Bobby could have literally been the "victim of the Mole"(have they used that lingo this season?) if Clay just steered him towards those off-the-wall thoughts Bobby came up with all by his lonesome.( Jon biting a green apple which cause B to believe that Paul from the Big <usually red> Apple NYC could be the Mole.) Clay also did not make any contribution to the pot in the two tasks of that last epi. We might get to see more reaction from the other players next epi, but for now at least, Clay doesn't seem to be blamed too much for that fact. Just like Craig's not getting the money bag at the Waterfalls, not blamed (yet). Last week when Bobby was pushed by Kristen in the wheel barrel, they did show us how it was Craig's idea to begin with. But K did not have to do it, she could have worked harder on finding piggies and tell B & C to keep up. Well, then again, when Jon told them to form groups, maybe they were supposed to move together only? K might not have been allowed to go on her own? That's the task where I thought Craig was Mole-ish until he saved the day and show Alex how to deliver the piggies safely in the blankets! Now, Alex could be Mole-ish since he was probably gonna smash all those piggies that day and he did not make but 2K from Fruit of the Luge task. I know, I know. He did use his Spanish ability to find those piggies AND get proper attire for his group of three. Unlike Victoria who didn't bother to speak Spanish for pig-searching or use it to beg clothes better or even seemed to try to detour team mates from the Laundromat. She also has the Mole sauce & chocolate massage connection. Then again, Alex has that "Music to the Mole's ears" connection. Craig has that Journal #11 connection. .... I'm in a nice circle, aren't I? You're all welcome to jump in any time!~ 
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 2:17 pm
Another flash: Remember that scavenger hunt by the beach? that was the Alexander so & so's inspiration. And the last execution took place at a structure by Alexander Eiffel. At the time I was just starting to look at our Alex funny! In the same task, Craig and another person halted a huge "note" (wooden baord) from MOLE as one possible thing to be found in 1700s. Was that just playfully ludicrous or was that suspicious??? << Who was Craig's partner in crime that day? Help please! I don't want to have to go search. >>
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 2:51 pm
great job Jimmer/Mods!!! I am loving reading all the therories!!!! YAH POSTERS!!!
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 3:44 pm
Aha! The other player holding the "Message from Mole" board with Craig was Alex, correct? I thought it could be Mark but then I recalled how Mark as a History teacher did not do such a good job deciding what to present to the "moderator" (Jon sitting w/ Nicole).
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 4:08 pm
Other than the Alex Eiffel that I got "inspired thinking towards our Alex, the other one was Alexander Selkirk, his "real life adventure" supossedly was the blue print for the Robinson Crusoe story. Sorry if I make you go ?
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Foolscap
Member
09-04-2004
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 4:32 pm
Jimmer, I enthusiastically agree with what you said upthread about how fans of "Lost" might like "the Mole". They both invite the veiwer to think with all the mysteries, clues and puzzles, and are both related and unique in this aspect. Unfortunately, the fans of "Lost" I know generally the "I don't watch reality shows" type, and are not buying it when I try and convince them there's some mental stimulation going on in "the Mole". It is not being promoted properly and, although it may not quite live up to our memories of it's first run, it will be a shame if it does fail. It's uniqueness in the reality world (and I like a lot of the un-unique reality shows( will be missed. Oh, and I want to thank you for arranging (and re-arranging) the threads so everyone (hopefully) will be happy, for as long as it lasts.
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Charlottesmom
Member
01-03-2008
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 7:19 pm
Also Chy, when Bobby and I think Paul? were looking through Alex's journal, it had "I am the Mole" written in big letters on one page. ETA: I think in a diary clip, Alex said he had left his journal in their room on purpose.... One more thing I just thought of, the piggies were made of CLAY..... If you spell out THE MOLE using the pictures at the top of the thread, you land on Craig's picture. OK.... I realize I am grasping at straws now, lol!
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 7:38 pm
C'smom, I did think about those clay piggies. All but a second though. Let's wait and collect more of Clay's Mole-behavior! Alex did leave his journal in Bobby's room and fessed about it. That's a bit too obvious for my taste also. I give "... music to the Mole's ears..." a lot more thoughts than that. ??? spells clay?? It's okay, you're grasping at straws and I'm chasing in a circle going back and forth .... 
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Curlyq
Member
07-10-2002
| Friday, June 20, 2008 - 7:57 pm
Well, good grief. Now you all are sucking me into this clue hunt with all your intriguing posts. Problem is, with Lost I record and save every episode to watch and rewatch. I haven't been doing that with this show, so I can't go back and rewatch anything. The online player doesn't work with my computer so I'll have to depend on everyone here for details from past shows. I totally agree that The Mole is not getting anywhere near as much promotion as other ABC shows get. Remember those split-second ads they were showing in the months leading up to the premiere? They would just flash the Mole logo so quickly you'd question if you really saw it. At the time I thought they were just trying to be clever, but maybe that's all the time the network would give for this series.
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Trini
Member
07-06-2004
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 12:34 pm
What was up with Bobby!? He had me laughing all through the show last week, glad he is gone in a way.
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Charlottesmom
Member
01-03-2008
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 3:18 pm
I hear you Chy!!! I wonder if Clay has actually contributed anything to the pot, I doubt it! Last week reminded me so much of Admiral Bill's (season 2 mole) refusal to wear the diaper. Just like with Bill, the suspicion was deflected because of Mark's refusal considering he was the first one to disrobe. If Clay is the mole, he is doing an excellent job IMO! He also broke the no talking rule after the luge comp but he was not as suspicious to the other players as Nicole/Alex or Craig/Victoria. I really want to know if Clay has contributed anything to the pot, I wonder if they break that down at the official site? So may players are screwing up, no matter who the mole is, his/her job is pretty easy at this point, lol.
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Curlyq
Member
07-10-2002
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 5:21 pm
If you go to the official site, DON'T click on the Mole's journal. Huge mistake. They put some clues in there that are so danged obvious I think I just got spoiled. This isn't like hunting for Lost clues at all. Did they gear these clues toward viewers under 12? I sure hope these were just red herrings, but if this person doesn't get eliminated soon I'm going to be really ticked. I should've known better than to click on that thing, but I never guessed they'd put such big hints in there.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 5:23 pm
Thank you for letting everyone know that Curlyq. I hope it is just a few red herrings but just in case it's good to know not to look there if you don't want to be spoiled.
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Charlottesmom
Member
01-03-2008
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 6:55 pm
I am a HUGE Agatha Christie fan and I love mysteries in general. Red Herrings are part of life if you like this kind of suspense. For me, the fun part is the last show where they show us, the viewers all the real clues and how wonderful I feel if I actually managed to snag one of them out of the throng of red herrings. That to me, is the essence of the whole show. It keeps you thinking, it keeps you on your toes, every tidbit, you think "this could be important." Actually this thread is kind of like a journal for us fans, we can jot down our theories and suspicions, and at the end of the show, we can look back and separate the wheat from the chaff and see how many of us were on the money and how many of us fell for the red herrings.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 7:36 pm
My Mom was a huge Agatha Christie fan. I was a big reader myself so back when I was still little my Mom finally convinced me to read an Agatha Christie mystery. I got about half way through it when she asked me who I thought the murderer was. LOL – I got it right. My Mom was partly amazed, partly delighted and partly horrified that I'd figured it out the first time when she hadn't been able to. Of course, that was partly a lucky guess though I did pick the person that I thought seemed least suspicious. I think I read pretty much all of her books after that. 
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 8:12 pm
Thank you, Curly, really! The first season they gave hard-to-notice clues. Well, to me at least. I supposed people complained and we got very much dumbed down clues season two. I can't tell you word for word, but it was clear as a bell that some sequence of numbers just spelled out as: Bill is the Mole. That's why I so strongly refuse to see any of those seemingly random numbers or letters! But this is kind of early in the season still. I sincerely hope that those are not crucial/correct spoilers just yet! C'smom, now I'm truly curious about Clay's contribution! Have you any success yet? I just finished my marathon of a day -- cooked for two different gatherings, went to one before Vigil service and just back from the one with the priest after Mass -- too beat to look into it. From memory,.... Clay was bad at scavenger hunt. But they were all bad at that. Alex brought back a hair dryer, someone gathered the vacuum cleaner, Craig & Alex(?) He did make them money at the Waterfalls, right? Then they all lost to the kids and bikers. Again, the players' performance in that task was one worse than the next! In the piggy search and sling, I was SOOooo distracted/disturbed by Bobby in his "stroller", I can't remember if Clay did anything towards fattening the Pot??? Of course we can all recall vividly how Clay did a big fat zero in Epi. 3. Hmmm... Tonight he looks mighty suspicious. I have to laugh at myself again ... 
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 8:13 pm
ok - Mole fans are enthusiastic?!!! lol good for you Jimmer - another great mystery writer imho is Sue Grafton - she is going thru the alphabet (much like Nancy Drew tho, as opposed to A. Christie) A is for Alibi!! (PS we just became new parents - to 2 adopted doggies!! Its been 12 years since we had a dog - and now we have 2 tiny terrior mix, one reminds me of Toto from Wizard of Oz - I dont post much these days, and was just so happy I wanted to share!!) (12 years because when the boys were old enough, and after we got over the passing of our beloved dog - well I found out we were expecting, so I waited... now she's old enough!! Went to a shelter and fell in love with these 2 a brother and sister!! Seamus(bday on St Pat Day) and Mattie!) back to THE MOLE!!
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Charlottesmom
Member
01-03-2008
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 8:15 pm
Oh my goodness Jimmer, that is fantastic!!!! When you read what I wrote to you in the other thread, we will already have made a connection here so you won't want to beat me with a wet trout lol. (Are you also a Monty Python fan perchance?) Which mystery did you read? I am an aficionado. You hit the nail on the head though - the person that seemed least suspicious. Do you prefer Marple or Poirot? Wow I could go on forever about the books and also the movies that were made of the books. Do you know that she is the best selling author OF ALL TIME and her books have never been out of print?
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 8:32 pm
HA! I knew it! there is a few of us who actually like Mysteries! Jimmer & Reader, I'm going to read more some day. I prefer bi-lingual edition though. Some times I need help understanding stuff in my native language. But sometimes the translator missed the mark so far that it's a source of entertainment! C'smom! I just received the Miss Marple DVD collection last Xmas! I told them it's a waste of money since I'd seen them all. But I do love them. I love Poirot also. I do love the last segment of every show when he tells Capt" Higgins(?) to gather every one involved to listen to him "tell it all". That is the most exciting time when you find out how right on you are and all. But that is the reason I want to peel this onion of a MOLE and not to have to work it backwards...
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Curlyq
Member
07-10-2002
| Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 10:13 pm
You know, somehow I'd managed to go my whole life without ever reading an Agatha Christie novel. This past week I've read two over at Project Gutenberg. A recent Doctor Who episode featuring Agatha Christie made me curious about her books, so I had to give them a try. Now I want to read more. Reader, congratulations on your new doggies. Love the names. Chy, I hadn't heard about it at the time, but I read over at Wikipedia about that obvious season 2 clue. They say "Bill is the mole" was flashed on the screen in the opening. At first they had given it as a clue using a number code, but toward then end they just spelled it out. I'm glad I hadn't noticed, because I would've been really miffed. I went back and read the episode summaries. In week 1 Clay and Mark both succeeded at grabbing a bag at the waterfall for $10,000 each. Alex and Paul both failed, Victoria sat on her raft and missed, and Craig got almost got hanged by his harness. Nicole and Kristen grabbed bags that turned out to have no money (not their fault). Not much to glean from the beach challenge. In week 2 the team failed to beat Mark and Kristen up the hill. Clay, Victoria, Alex, and Nicole made the best time, but the rest of the group slowed them down. Then in the pig challenge Bobby, Craig and Kristen brought in no pigs. Alex's group brought in the most pigs, but Alex smashed several with failed attempts on the slingshot. Craig saved the day by taking over the slingshot. In week 3 Alex and Nicole only got one fruit correct. Clay, Bobby, Victoria, and Craig were penalized $24,000 for breaking the rules. Later Clay and Mark opted out of the second challenge, costing the group another $5,000 each. So the tally I get for money lost from the pot is like this (with some overlap where people worked together): Clay $19,000 Victoria $24,000 Craig $24,000 Alex $16,000 $22,000 Nicole $6,000 $12,000 Mark $40,000 (including bike exemption) Kristen $35,000 (including bike exemption) Paul $4,000 This does not include the pig challenge, since I have no idea how many pigs Alex broke, or how to assign blame for pigs not found. <changed numbers ~JR>
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Kellee
Member
07-07-2004
| Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 4:20 am
based who the mole has been in the past i had been pegging Clay as the mole from the begining but the I am for sure not going to go click on the miles journal...I like the element of surprise in this
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 8:22 am
Curly, that's a very handy list you put together! Thank you. It'll be very useful. The production sort of made some of these tasks failures explainable either directions though. Take the Waterfall challenge for example: In our eyes, Nicole and Kristen succeed in getting the begs but turned out to have fake money within. We tend to want to count them as real contestants rather than the Mole. But how do we know the producers did not tell the Mole to go ahead give a good show since Marcie already appointed fake money in the bag? Let's not forget the fact that they're in control of the pole that holds the beg as well. Victoria, Alex & Paul were very suspicious since they were thought of as more athletic, agile and younger than Liz! Meanwhile, Craig made himself look pitiful and laughable. He practically was given a free pass. After all the poor attempts, even if Clay or Mark were the true Mole, there was no need for any sabotage but instead, a chance to gain credibility with true contestants. Look how neither of them were bothered too much by not taking part in the "Begging for clothes" task! Also, Mark was shown saying how he'd trust Clay only! That could totally be a perfect clip to replay at the last epi as a "Gotha!" moment ... But we don't know how the real order of the Waterfall task was, do we? I think Mark was shown going much later while Clay was a bit earlier. As for that debacle of a scavenger hunt, what could we gleam from that? I think some one got every player thinking that, if they were not sure about the id of the Mole, the second best strategy was to act like it and hope that others would fall for it while they wade through the first few tasks. Of course, now we could probably assume that, yes, Bobby is just that weak! Wow! Just the first epi and I'm worn! I think I am just trying to say that, the Producers & Editors are doing a decent job confusing us!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 8:40 am
I've been thinking and thinking about it and I can't remember which Agatha Christie book I read first. I even went and looked at a list of all her novels and I couldn't remember. I might re-read a couple just for fun. I think I have every one of them. LOL – I'm blaming you all if I get hooked again. As we mentioned, one of the tricks for solving Agatha Christie stories is that she often seemed to have the least apparently likely person as the killer. I guess we could partly apply that to trying to figure out who the Mole is but the biggest problem with that approach (unlike with a murder) is it is to the advantage of the other players to appear mole-like. For example, Bobby appeared incredibly mole like to the point of getting pushed around in a wheelbarrow but he still wasn't the Mole.
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Curlyq
Member
07-10-2002
| Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 4:28 pm
I read that Agatha Christie used to wait until she got near the end of the story, choose whoever looked the most innocent at that point, and then go back and change a few things to make them the culprit. That's why it always worked out to be the least likely suspect. But then in one of the two novels I read she took the most obvious suspect, proved him innocent, and then turned him back into the killer. So she could be tricky. Chy, for the waterfall challenge, I only figured in potential money that was lost by people who didn't grab a bag. Suspicions were raised when athletic-looking people failed and one person even sat down on the raft (putting the bag out of reach), while the oldest contestant managed to grab a bag. Mark and Kristen's losses were the highest just because of that one challenge where they took the exemption. However, as a true contestant it would've been hard to resist the chance to guarantee yourself another round in the game. With the fruit I counted the penalties as well as the number of fruit they missed. The pig challenge I didn't figure in at all since I wouldn't know how to pin an amount lost on one person rather than another. I just tried to note who performed well and who held things up. So by looking at these numbers it's just interesting to note that the mouthiest contestant (Paul) has caused the least harm to the pot. This is good, because it suggests he's not the Mole and can be eliminated any week now. Nicole's number needs to be changed to $12,000 and Alex's changed to $22,000. There were 6 missed fruit, but I forgot they were $2,000 each. Mark did say he trusts Clay, while Clay said he only trusts himself. Not sure if that can eliminate either one of them as the Mole. Do we know who Bobby thought was the Mole at the time of his elimination?
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