Author |
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 11:48 pm
"And I think it's caa caa to be lectured on how it's our fault if we let words hurt us, blah blah blah." I wasn't "lecturing" anyone....I was just pointing out that a word can do you no harm unless you allow it to. (And that goes for everyone, no matter what color their skin is.) Personally, I think it's caa caa to pat your kid on the back for physically beating another child for saying a bad word. Condoning a violent act against any child is wrong, especially when it's just over a word. Your son is lucky the guy didn't follow his lead and escalate the situation even more. "My kids don't go around calling caucasians the H word or the C word and it is not acceptable for them to use the N word or have it used against them." It sounds like you believe that if a black person calls me a "cracker" it would be okay for me to overreact and beat the shit out of him. That's so wrong on so many levels....there is simply no justification for condoning physical violence against a child for saying something stupid.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:05 am
I have to chime in here and agree with Ladytex and her handling of her son beating the kid up for using the n word. It’s all fine and dandy not to want to use physical force to defend oneself and my first thought is just to walk away. But how many times can you walk away???? Using the N word deserves a good smack down. To heck with walking away. I bet that kid doesn’t use the word towards Ladytexs’ son again but he’ll probably use towards others. At least Lady’s son got the best of him. It’s a highly charged word that is used to put an entire race down. Why didn’t that kid use a harsh word against her son that didn’t put down an entire race of people? Probably because that kid associated whatever behavior ticked him off based on skin color. Would that kid have used such a disparaging word toward an entire race other than blacks…probably not. He deserved a physical lesson. Bravo to your son Lady and to you too for letting it be. Sorry I just couldn’t put my 2 cents in.
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Wendo
Member
08-07-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:09 am
"Would that kid have used such a disparaging word toward an entire race other than blacks…probably not." Actually, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that someone who calls blacks the n-word probably calls other entire races names too. ETA: Oh, and I agree with Sanfran that condoning violence by children towards other children is wrong.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:12 am
I also agree that violence is wrong no matter what. If people did not react to nasty words, I think those words would lose their power...
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:23 am
I wholeheartedly agree with defending yourself by any means necessary.
quote:Hmm, I wonder if people would have a problem if I said I discounted someones opinion purely on the fact that their skin was black? I wonder how that would go over? Hmmmm.
No need to wonder cause most of the time I already think that.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:31 am
"Beating the crap" out of someone for saying something to you is not defending yourself. Telling them that they are wrong to say it is defending yourself.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:42 am
pftttt
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:47 am
I also agree with a nonviolent response to verbal aggression. I think we already suffer from too much violence in this world. Nowadays, people think they are justified for shooting someone who cuts them off in traffic. I am not one to stand down; but even if i had to hurt someone in self defense, I would not see any glory in it; let alone take pride in causing someone physical pain for what they said. I understand the rage and frustration; but violence only begets more violence. (As MLK wisely told us).
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:57 am
I don't think that responding to a verbal insult or a verbal confrontation with physical violence can be justified. Where do you draw the line?
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:10 am
I'm proud to say that I have NEVER been in any sort of physical confrontation nor have either of my children but I guarantee that after a life time of hearing the N word at some time I would physically lash out. I don’t care how un PC that might be. Or that it would just be a stop gap but the satisfaction of beating someone up calling me the N word …well I’d get over the fact that I stooped so low as to kick the poop out of someone who had no qualms about putting down a whole race of people. Maybe in Nazi Germany if people stood up and beat the crap out of those Nazi early on we could have skipped that ugly part of humanity. BTW I was born and raised in Austria so I mean no disrespect or lump all Germans/Austrians into the Nazi category. And sometimes words Vs words don't cut it as I imagine was the case with Lady's son. There is only so long you can take verbal abuse. BTW I respect all opinions and just chiming in on this Sunday afternoon with my opinion for whatever that is worth.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:16 am
If someone called my son the N word I would kick their ass
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Merrysea
Member
08-13-2004
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:21 am
What if the other boy had gotten the better of Ladytex's son in the fight? Would it still have been appropriate for her son to start the physical fight?
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:27 am
What would encouraging your kid to beat the crap out of someone for this accomplish? Pros: - it might make you and your kid feel better (but he still got insulted and this doesn't change that) - it might make it less likely that the other guy will use the word again under the same circumstances Cons: - it won't change the guy's opinion - he'll still probably use the word again anyway - your kid might get arrested - the other guy might return with his buddies and beat the crap out of your kid. - or worse. Doesn't seem like a good balance to me.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:30 am
Don't forget that reacting with violence over a word can really escalate the situation. If a guy says something stupid and is physically beaten because of it, how do you know he won't pick up a rock, use it bash the beater in the face and then kick him in the head a few times? Escalating a verbal assault to a physical one can cause a kid (even the one that was called the bad word) to wind up dead. No one here that's condoning violence in retaliation to a verbal assault seems to be taking that into account.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:31 am
Merrysea...yes just for the satisfaction of geting a few licks in. And I'm not saying it's appropriate just that I can see how at some point lashing back physically would be satisfying...especially against such ugliness.
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Spangs
Member
10-07-2005
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 1:56 pm
Karuuna, something that you posted earlier, still has me thinking even now. You said that you believed that your father would indeed kill the black guy that you dated, so you ended it immediately. My best friend in this world just happens to be white, and I know for certain that he would die for me as I would him. And as enlightened as I think that I am as a black male, knowing full well that violence really settles nothing....that word still evokes so much for me
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 5:58 pm
Spangs, I have no doubt that my father would have killed him, without hesitation. As much as I liked this young man, I found it abhorrent to even explain to him why I stopped dating him, I was so ashamed of my dad. At the same time, NOW I realize that my father was raised to hate - he was indoctrinated into the Hitler Youth at a very young age, and brainwashed with a lot of evil. He was always friendly and civil on the surface to others, and I think at some level he may have even wished he could be different. But he was never able to overcome the hatred he was taught at such a young age. That's why I am so much against violence, except in self defense. Otherwise, folks seem to use it to justify their behavior in all kinds of situations where violence is simply unnecessary. I've no doubt that my father thought that killing this young man would be justifiable to protect his daughter. Much like others think beating the crap out of someone for a word is justifiable. But that's just the point, everyone who *commits* the violence thinks it's justified in their own case, and so it goes. On and on. Beating the crap out of people.... and killing people.... .... and starting wars. I think someone once said how can we expect to have worldwide peace, when we cannot even have peace with our own neighbors?
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 8:44 pm
I don't recall anywhere in my post that I either encouraged or patted him on the back. More putting words in my mouth? I merely said that I did not punish him more than he got punished in school. Judge not, you people, especially when you judge wrong ....
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Wendo
Member
08-07-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 9:58 pm
"No need to wonder cause most of the time I already think that." Interesting. --- Ladytex, re: your son. While you didn't punish your son as you said, or pat him on the back, etc., did you let your son know that you object to such violence? That many consider such behavior wrong? Just curious; the reason I ask is because you wrote that you felt the kid deserved to get beat up for calling your son the n-word. --- I guess if someone has no problem with "beating down" someone for name calling they won't be complaining if, in turn, their kid gets beat up if their kid calls someone a name? Right?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:01 pm
"pat on the back" = figure of speech "Judge not, you people" "You people"? Do you mean "white people", "gay people", or people who don't think physical violence is warranted for saying a mean word?
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Madelane
Member
08-20-2001
| Monday, April 17, 2006 - 7:19 am
SanFran - I just came back to the board and I just wanted to point out that your original comment, as well-meant as it was, was actually quite controversial. In fact the sentiment of your comment was similar to that of Bruno, in that you and he were effectively "blaming" the recipients of racism for the problem instead of directing it toward the hateful person at issue. While it would be great if words didn't hurt, and it's true that many people can sufficiently let words roll off their back and not hurt them, that doesn't excuse the behavior of the person who says the words with the desire to hurt. A person who viciously directs the N word toward or about a black person deserves to be chastised, and telling them "names can't hurt me" is just NOT sufficient. (I am not getting into the violence part that was later discussed, just the original idea) Interestingly though to me, is that the two times words became contoversy on the show were two times when the speaker was not being vicious! Carmen saying Bit** and that young man saying the N word around Nick were both not being hateful, just uninformed in different ways. Those are good examples of the times when it is nice for the hearer of those words to take the chip off their shoulder and educate instead of directing blame, as SanFran suggested.
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Spygirl
Board Administrator
04-23-2001
| Monday, April 17, 2006 - 7:26 am
Sanfran, your comment, as I understood it, is a postmodern way of thinking. The idea is that we socially construct all meaning through the use of language. As you pointed out, words only have power when we socially construct them to have power (which we clearly do); therefore, they will only not have power when we stop constructing them to have power. It is a very cutting edge way of thinking, and it'll take a long time for modernist to agree. In addition, it takes a long time for meaning to change humanrace-wide. For me personally, it is a philosophy I find useful.
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Spangs
Member
10-07-2005
| Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:02 am
it takes a long time for for meaning to change human-race wide.....that is the rub spy, the eternal wait. Generally, this board is much fairer imo in allowing many to vent, converse, and convey individual viewpoints, without fear of being jumped on for having these individual views. I relished the fact that thoughtful discourse was happening here in the black.white thread. And then sadly, what usually happens happened. It will take a long time Spy, because we can never seem to get past the initial need to stick to our individual positions concerning the issue/s of the usage of that word. Not saying that we cannot agree to disagree, but I just got the usual sense that a very promising discussion has faltered. And it happens all the time...everywhere. And the saddest thing is that we cannot move forward until we hash out all that may be uncomfortable to hear.
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Spygirl
Board Administrator
04-23-2001
| Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:10 am
For every time a discussion falters, Spangs, remember all of the people that are impacted by it. How many people, as a result of this discussion, are thinking about the power that words have? How many people are wondering what issues hold more power over us than we personally wish they had? While it is disappointing right now, I take some small amount of comfort in knowing that change happens. It just takes time - epecially when the emotional and psychological scars run as deep as they do with these controversial topics. We have to keep standing up for what we believe and do so in a way that promotes change...which to me is not waiting...it is doing. And we have to do this while working to change for ourselves what kinds of things we want to give away our own power to (how's that for bad grammar?!).
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Spangs
Member
10-07-2005
| Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:43 am
Thanks for the food for thought Spy. Yesterday was the first time in a long time that I felt the need to post here. There are indeed many intelligent and imo, forward thinking people here.Jimmer telling Mocha that she welcomes Mocha's opinion even if that opinion differs from her own is indicative of why it has been difficult for me to stay away.
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