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Max
Member
08-12-2000
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 9:55 am
Wow. I finally got time to watch the show last night and now I totally understand why this thread got so busy. All I can say is that it made me very, very sad. Sad that the husband only said about two words during the last meeting while his wife steamrolled everyone and was exceedingly rude. Sad that the person who professes to follow "God's word" so closely seemed to ignore the cardinal rule -- love one another as you love me -- and chose to spew venom at another human being who had shown nothing but love and respect for her family. Sad for the lesbian couple who, despite everything they do to be human and love each other and raise a child in this world to do the same are still subjected to prejudice and hate simply because of who they are. At the end, when Mrs. Gillespie was expressing how much she learned that she "loves this man", I couldn't help but think what would happen to that "love" if something happened and they lost the big house, lost the huge income, were put in a position where she had to go to work and the kids had to go to public school, etc. etc. etc. In short, what if her "excellent" world crumbled as Job's did? Would she still be as self-righteous? Would she still be praying the Prayer of Jabez and thanking God for prosperity? Or would she be railing at God for being unjust to such a righteous woman? Like I said, I wonder. I also wondered whether the prayer for prosperity we saw her family saying for the lesbian couple and their child was solely because of the camera being there. I can't help but think that when the camera isn't around, it's more likely they're saying a prayer that those "depraved" women will change their ways. Altogether, even though the lesbian couple went away feeling crushed, I think they made a much better overall impression as human beings than the Gillespie adults did.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 10:19 am
Wow, thanks Jodied and Watching. I'm humbled by your kind words. I do think the show sets people up in the most controversial way they can think of, and I worry that the aim of the producers is the shock value; more than some higher purpose like helping folks expand their world views. But it often does work to help people see things another way. And it certainly encourages quality conversations like this that also help people think through their own world views, which is a good thing, IMO. I grew up in a community where homosexuality was never talked about. It was a hard neighborhood, low income, very blue color. No one came out in my high school. Later in life, when it was safer to do so, and after a great deal of soul searching and healing, two of my very dearest friends came out to themselves as much as to the rest of us. Some of our group of friends abandoned them (which broke our hearts), but others of us embraced them just as we always had. I think back with sadness sometimes, how I spent so many years with them growing up, talking about our respective crushes, and never knowing what they really felt. I think about how awful it must have been for them to not be able to tell the truth of who they were, and how lonely that must have been. And how it must continue to be a heartbreak to them to know that some people will never know them or understand them. They're just people, with good and bad characteristics, like the rest of us. Much like the couple on the show, they have their positive sides, and some questionable views, like how they are raising their daughter. But in the end, they are just people, in all the ways that matter.
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Auntiemike
Member
09-17-2001
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 10:46 am
Oh, here I go again. I never observed the mixed race couple express hatred for the two women of the gay couple. I just observed her strong feelings, emotions and dislike for the lifestyle they are living with regard to sexuality. The Christian woman has her good points and bad points, just as the other couple had (as you pointed out Karuuna). She did apologize (or try to) at the end when she realized she had spoken out of anger and frustration. I guess I am willing to learn how to "love" her despite her views on things, just as I am willing to "love" the other women, despite their views. I personally found it difficult to like Nickie, feeling she was very abrasive and looking for an argument. Very defensive in my book. Her partner, Chris, responded in what I see as a "victim". Neither of those qualities endeared me to them, regardless of anything else. I just wish we didn't have to be so venomous towards any of the participants. I did think the Christian woman left a good legacy towards the 8 year old daughter by establishing "Princess Day", something she seemed to value and enjoy and it seemed the moms continued. I also think the gay mom left a legacy of how to have fun with the other children in the Texas family. The dad also seemed to realize he needed to loosen up. All in all, it seems we can't get past certain aspects of these situations and look at the good that did come out of each one. Peace.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:23 am
I agree that some good came out of the situation; and I also agree that all of the adults certainly had some difficult characteristics to like, and um, some more than others! I think the thing that riles us so much about the "Christian" woman is that many of us found her both hypocritical and judgmental in her behavior toward the lesbian couple. The others certainly had their faults too; but there is something about someone who thinks and acts like they are better than others that particularly gets my goat. And I admit I have a few goats to get. I also think part of the problem with her is that she was one who didn't really seem to learn anything at all from the situation, unlike the three other adults. There is another dynamic too, I think. And that is that many of us, as I have with my friends, have seen firsthand what that kind of condemnation has done to people we love, and in society as a whole. So much like those who fought against bigotry against blacks, we are strident in our response to what we see as particularly unjust and cruel behavior. Much more so than a bit of whineyness (sp?) or abrasiveness. Hope that makes sense.
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 12:59 pm
Tisha, thanks for that article.. of course we know that key events are left out of this show.. like the husband signing that petition in her presence when they painted him as being milder than his wife. Hmm. But the article does a decent job of pointing that out. I don't see much resemblance between Condi Rice and Kris.. I actually met Condi once, albeit briefly This was in her capacity as one of the members of the Board of Directors of Transamerica.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 1:19 pm
Condi needs a good hairdresser. Kris' hair was much better looking.
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 4:34 pm
Yes! I suspect many a hairdresser would like to kidnap Condi for a few hours. But then it took Oprah years to really get it right (well that's just my opinion..) And Oprah has hairdressers at her beck and call.. the hairdos she is appearing in this year are mostly wonderful, IMO. She's looking real comfortable in her own skin and hair these days.
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Jodied75
Member
08-26-2004
| Friday, February 11, 2005 - 5:35 pm
From RNO: (This just in: The U.S. Education Secretary tried to have this episode banned from public airwaves. Where she got the idea that Wife Swap had anything to do with learning, I don't know.)
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 4:02 pm
Kep421- I referred to the Brain differences in some gay men. It is primarily the hypothalmus . from being able to create "gay rats" by exposing them to testosterone in utero by implanting a single gene in male fruit flies, all of them refuse females Karunna, thanks for your attempt to clarify your concepts of the situation. What you have said means that you completely agree with my statement about how some gays have genetic precursors or enzymatic/ hormonal problems. But this is NOT 100% of people. There are men with hormone problems who are still hetero BY choice and women with high testosterone who also prefer men by choice...just because there can be measurable medical data does not guarantee that person IS GAY/Lesbian. By the way, I was raised on a farm and we had a sheep that was ambiguous. It 'looked' female yet the males wanted nothing to do with it. It lived a long life yet never conceived lambs. I truly believe in genetic abnormalities happen in ALL animals even people.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 4:13 pm
No, Sunshyne that's not what I said, but thanks for telling me what I think. 
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Max
Member
08-12-2000
| Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 4:22 pm
Personally, I prefer to think of genetic differences that do not cause physical incapacity as variety, not abnormality. I also think that gender identity and gender preference is something that's hardwired in our brains, not something we choose. Some prefer and/or identify themseles as men, some women, some both depending on their mood. Wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same. "Live well, laugh often, love much!"
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 8:18 pm
I'd vote for "variety" over "abnormality" myself.
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Jodied75
Member
08-26-2004
| Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 11:24 pm
Karuuna, Max, Seamonkey....You guys rock. Thank god we have accepting and open-minded people of all life's "varieties". Equating preferences with a chemical disorder in the brain is absurd. I love english and literature but I hate math. I prefer cats over dogs. I love chocolate, biking and being romantically with men. I don't like ice cream, walking, or being romantically with women. My brain doesn't need rewiring for the first two, but it does for the last one? Why is it a preference that I'd rather eat chocolate than ice cream, but it would be an abnormality if I preferred women over men? It just insults me. One of my most favourite people in the world is gay, (my aunt), and the notion that she could be called an abnormality blows my mind. Incidentally, she is a Christian, goes to church every week, and has a Christian rock band. And yes, this church is a regular Protestant church.
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Penpoint
Member
03-27-2001
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 1:13 am
For a long time I thought the term homophobia (fear of homosexuality) was a misnomer, that what people meant was homo-hatred. Now I'm not so sure. The political right needed a rallying point, and by using the sexual fears of the religious right community, they developed their political plans. They demonized gay people as sexual predators, as recruiters of the young, as the leading anti-family force. This played right into fears of Christian evangelicals. Mrs. Gillespie is a prime example of someone whose fears blind her from seeing that gay people are fully rounded individuals whose sexuality is only a small part of their lives. She feared that her daughter would either be sexually molested by a lesbian or catch lesbianism by coming into contact with a lesbian. Someone in a post above reported that Bush's Secretary of Education wanted to stop this episode of WifeSwap from being shown. The conservative political/religious movement promotes homophobia--and consequently hatred--with its inflammatory rhetoric, and at the same time thinks that by denying exposure to the subject of homosexuality, homosexuality will go away. Of course, gays are here to stay--but unfortunately, this fear-mongering has been an effective political strategy.
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Max
Member
08-12-2000
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 1:40 am
Sexual repression of all kinds has long been a way for "the church" to try and control people. One would think that someone would begin to notice that it doesn't work. Teaching abstinence doesn't stop teens from having sex. Making priests take a vow of chastity doesn't stop them from having sexual urges and molesting altar boys (or whoever). Having large congregations that donate thousands of dollars doesn't stop the pastor from having an affair outside his marriage. Telling gay people that they are sinners doesn't change who they are attracted to. Sexuality is a God-given gift that "the church" has long sought to make us feel is a dirty, sinful thing that only exists to perpetuate the species (and then only within very proscribed parameters). If I believed that, I would have to give up ever having sex again since I cannot have children. Luckily for me, personally, I think if sex was only meant for having kids, it wouldn't feel so good. Some people want to be told exactly what to believe and how to act. "The church" is there to fulfill that need for those who seek it. Not all churches, however, practice what a friend refers to as "8-1/2 x 11 Christianity" (where all the "rules" of what constitutes being a "good Christian" fit neatly on a single sheet of paper). Many are more open-minded and embracing of many different viewpoints and people. Hallelujah! Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (the infamous FUD-factor) are the best mechanism any institution has for controlling a large group of people. Advertisers use it to make you feel that you truly need their product (how did we ever survive all the germs in the world before Purel?), the government uses it to advance the political agenda of the day (the Russians are coming -- the communists are coming -- the terrorists are coming -- pick an era!), and the church uses it to keep its members aligned in a codified way of behaving (which just happens to include a need to tithe regularly). Question authority. If you don't, who will? 
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Watching2
Member
07-07-2001
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 1:44 am
Great post, Max! 
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 7:51 am
LOL Karuuna. I need to learn your tact!!!!
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 8:03 am
When's the next show?
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 8:45 am
I was doing a lil googling on Wife Swap and I just read that this is another UK show. It was shown there in 2003. I didn't know this.
quote:When Wife Swap premiered in 2003 in the United Kingdom, it was an instant television phenomenon. The program has won numerous awards, most recently the prestigious BAFTA (British Academy of Film & Television Arts) Award for best reality show and the Golden Rose for best reality program at the International Rose D'Or Festival, Europe's top entertainment television awards. Wife Swap currently airs everywhere from France to Australia and Germany to New Zealand.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 8:51 am
Interesting, Mocha. I still have so much trouble believing that these families don't get ANYTHING for being on this show. At least on Trading Spouses, you get money. I can't imagine wanting to be on tv so badly that you would put up with slanted editing and staged scenarios! LOL
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 3:00 pm
I'll second that, Texannie! Why on earth??
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 3:28 pm
I was using the word "abnormality" as it is used in our medical terminology. Apologies to all who didnt understand that. Tp use the word "variety" over "abnormality" in regards to genetic problems doesnt make sense and you will never see it in a true medical paper. When a Gene is MISSING for instance, you would say it is an abnormal chromosome. No scientist would say the Chromosome shows variety LOL. My mistake is trying to talk science in contrast to others are simply saying what they "think" should be the reason for people's differences. Equating preferences with a chemical disorder in the brain is absurd Not so absurd...I didnt say that anywhere but it is true. All our emotions, feelings, preferences, pain impulses etc are IN THE BRAIN. Endorphins makes us happy, imbalance of seratonin makes us depressed, Lithium can help with some imbalances, Heroin and Cocaine directly affect the brain and affect people's choices. Feelings of love or lust, we can love or have crushes on either sex, can lead to sexual feelings (certain chemicals release in the brain) and this is known to be a normal part of human developement. Anyways, If people are thinking poorly of me, please dont. Obviously my words are not conveying what I am trying to say and people seem to be getting upset. This is my last post about this show and any related subjects.
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Konamouse
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 3:48 pm
From sources on TWOP - The Gillespies own a business called "Destination Excellence". http://destex.vertex.com/Home.asp And Kris has run for a seat in the Texas House of Representatives. A relative of the family also outed the "chores" for the kids - there is a nanny & maids who do more cleaning than the kids. They are also book authors (found on Amazon) Amazon "When Mama Ain't Happy, Ain't Nobody Happy: Rules That Women Want Men to Know" I was angry at Kris G's behavior. She is entitled to her opinion and viewpoints, but to maintain a "holier than thou" attitude and verbally degrad Lizzie's family in front of an 8yr, and then berate Chris at the confrontation. She could have taken the high road "I don't agree with your lifestyle, and wish that my children had not been exposed to it, but I wish you health & happiness, and all the best for your daughter"....that is what a nice, ghod-believing person would say. Oh, by the way, Chris & Nikki also attend church, they are christian, but that part wasn't in the script so it wasn't shown. We do have to remember that 80 hrs of tape is edited down to less than 1 hr of broadcast (and extra scenes are apparently available on the website, as are the full written house manuals, which I hear is a hoot to read). 'squeek'
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Auntiemike
Member
09-17-2001
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 4:13 pm
It's odd to me, that if they indeed tape 80 hours or more and have to take it down to less than one hour for the show, that they sure do repeat a lot of things, prior to and following commercials. It seems as if I am made to "anticipate" the same things over and over and then I get to see what they used as a teaser. Very annoying; so repetitive. I wish they would show more the the 80 hours they filmed.
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Jodied75
Member
08-26-2004
| Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 4:16 pm
I agree, Auntiemike. It's like we all suffer from short-term memory loss! So aggravating. Imagine if they came back from commercial to Desperate Housewives and repeated the last scene! Why do they do this for reality television?
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