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Archive through February 10, 2005

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Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 8:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I totally agree Texannie. :-(

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 8:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
as bad as the mom was, the producers were just as bad - as if they couldnt just say "how did the family feel with Kristine in their house?" instead they had to say "with lesbian Kristine in their house" ... we know she is gay, but you dont go around labelling people like that - they would never say, nowadays, "with black Kris in the house" - that is where i start to hate the editors - the show is bad enough with just the actual footage, there was no need to hype it any more by saying lesbian in every other sentence of the voiceover.

one point with not being accepted becasue you have black skin - that still goes on - maybe not to the extent it used to, or to the level that being gay can caused strife in families but there are still many prejudiced people out there who hate mix relationships, and many families who dont want to accept an interracial child into their family - and that goes for all sides - some whites dont want anyone with dark skin in their family and some blacks dont want anyone with light skin in their families - anyone remember the ER episode when benton was in the mississippi delta and delivered the baby and the father of the girl who had the baby was going to throw her out if the baby has any trace of being black in it.

16 states still has laws against interracial marriages in 1967 when the supreme ct ruled on "loving vs virginia" - they actually got married in 1958 in DC but lived in Virginia and pled guilty to violating the state's ban on interracial marriage - the judge suspended their one year sentence - but did so by saying their sentence was suspended for 25 years and they had to leave the state- and that they could not come back into the state together for the next 25 years.

Scout
Member

01-20-2005

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 9:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Why does a person have to say over and over again that they are a Christian? Isn't the point supposed to be to act like one? It seems that people have chosen to use that term for themselves and then to justify every belief they have and to pat themselves on the back while doing it. If the original Christian, Christ himself, showed up on conservative mom's door, she would disapprove of his dress, and the people he interacted with. I don't remember Christ surrounding himself with rich people or people of same opinions and agreeing with them. He surrounded himself with the poor, the untouchables, the prostitutes, etc. He didn't act superior to them. He preached tolerance, and acceptance, and loving your neighbor. I get so tired of people using Christ to justify bigotry. His entire existence was the opposite.
Watching the family sit around reading the bible and then talking about all their possessions and praying to prosper made me sad. When I hear rich people on tv saying how blessed they are to have "things", it makes me wonder - are the rest of us, then, not blessed because we don't?
Why not teach the children that since they have been given so much, they have a greater responsibility to help others?

Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 9:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Wow,very good post Scout.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    

quote:

Was it actually illegal for a black person to marry a white person before 1967? That blows my mind...





You should read some history Julieboo. We weren't allowed to use the same bathrooms so why would it have been 'ok' to intermarry? Not coming down on you just making a point.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Watching actually within the black community we have prejudices regarding our skintones. So actually there may have been/be some disowning in families because you aren't light enough or dark enough.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
And I was appalled(sp) at what the 'Christian' mom was saying last night after spending time in their home and with their child. And did not once have anything nice to say about her experience or what she learned but that may have been the editing. I was truly disappointed.

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
If Lizzy grows up and becomes promiscuous, it'll more likely be due in some part to being allowed to watch PG13 movies with sexual content, not because her parents are gay.

I fell asleep after the gay mom was being ordered by the straight mom to do all that yardwork. I am not ok with the gay mom using all that profanity, especially in front of her young daughter. I am also no ok with the straight mom "talking (to the gay mom) like she's a 3 year old" as the gay mom put it. Straight mom was extrememly rude from what I saw.

I do agree with straight mom about no tv in the kids' bedrooms. there is absolutely nothing wrong with no tv in kids' bedrooms. Our kids will never have tv in their bedrooms. No online in their bedrooms either.

What happened with Princess Day for Lizzie? Also what happened at the end during the meet? Also, what happened with dad at the gay bar and dancing?

Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well,I have to say the thing that really bothers me about this show, it was a giant set up for our "entertainment." The producers knew how these two families live and what they believe. No concern was taken for the kids involved in this little experiment.
That little girl was within ear shot of the straight and gay mom arguing. Just sad,incredibly irresponsible tv.

Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I will probably be a most unpopular poster here but I do feel the gay woman who lived with the Texas family pulled the "victim" role and got confused by the actual message the Texas mom was trying to share. I

believe the Texas mom wanted to express her concern for exposing her daughter (or children) to an aspect of life that she is not comfortable with nor endorses. That is the right of parents; right or wrong. She has the right to protect and then teach her children as she believes. Just as the gay couple have the right to teach their daughter through how they parent her.

I do think the editing had something to do with the way each mom was viewed. Personally I have just as much of a problem with the gay couple wanting others to embrace their choices/lifestyle without exception but they won't allow the Christian mother to have her choices/lifestyle, without labeling her as bigoted or hypocritical.

I did see the dad accepting of the gay woman as a human being. Isn't that what Christianity is truly about. It is not our place to judge but to be loving to all. Just as Jesus Christ was to the Samaritan woman and others. However, people have to accept the fact that Christ also gave people an opportunity to repent of their ways (which were displeasing to God) and to accept him.

As a Christian I can love the person but not the choices or lifestyle that a person lives. I find that to be true with the drug addicted birth mothers of my various adopted children. I will never embrace their choices as O.K., within the context of my belief and relationship with Jesus, but I will love them as God loves them. He was their creator, after all, and He doesn't make mistakes.

O.K. so now I'm ready to be blasted by those who don't think like I do. At least I think I'm ready....LOL.

I was concerned about the 8 year old girl and all that she was being exposed to at such a young age. I, too, would have restrictions, just based on what I believe to be good parenting, not lifestyle choices or practices. It is our job as parents to raise our children to be able to function responsibly and with accountability within our society and that means protecting them yet giving them freedom and direction as they are ready to cope.

Enough of my soapbox for now. I just had a lot of emotion about this show as I read the boards before I watched it on my TiVO.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Oh, here we go with the buzz words: "choices" and "lifestyles".

The lesbian couple no more made a choice about their orientation than the black woman made a choice to be black. It's not a "lifestyle", it's biology.

As a Christian myself, something about remove the log in your eye comes to mind, when I watched this black woman chastise others. Jesus seemed to reserve his greatest criticism for anyone who was a religious hypocrite - you know the ones that lauded their own faith and religious superiority over others.

It is my opinion that any time we find fault in someone else, we'd usually be much better off working on our own. And let's not forget that Jesus (in the historical writings that we have), never said one word about homosexuality. Not one. However he did say a lot about hypocrisy and judgment and forgiveness and compassion and understanding....


Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
And Hippy, I agree with you about the kids. Seems no one was very concerned about their feelings anywhere along the line...

Scout
Member

01-20-2005

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The difference is that the gay couple weren't trying to "change" the other couple. They were just trying to share their ideas and to try to learn something. The Christian mom had no intention of changing anything and tried to push her beliefs on the gay couple. Maybe she might have done a better job of explaining herself if she wasn't being so hateful at the meeting.
That said, I respect your opinion (and your right to express it!), Auntie Mike, and I think you made some really valid points.

Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Back at you Karuuna I respectfully beg to differ with you (and others, I'm sure) that the whole issue is a matter of biology. But, that is a whole other thread...

Thanks for the respect Scout. I appreciate openess.

Also, Karuuna, thanks for reminding me, and others, about all the wonderful characteristics of Jesus. It is a daily choice to live and be like him.....just know that it is also difficult because of our humaness.

I do not want to judge the Christian woman and her husband any more than I want to judge the other two women. I hope that you understand I have compassion and acceptance of all of them as human beings.

Peace.

Scout
Member

01-20-2005

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Auntiemike, I think you must have a great deal of Christian spirit to tackle the phenomenally hard task of raising children born to drug-addicted mothers. You're the kind of Christian I was talking about earlier who shows it by action.
You have my greatness respect and admiration for adopting those children and I hope they know how lucky they are!

HippyT - Thanks for the nice words above!

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Auntie, it may be another thread, but isn't that what this whole issue often revolves around? Having studied Neuroscience, I will note that we have as much evidence that homosexuality is biologically determined as we do that lefthandedness is. Funny thing is that no one ever argues that handedness is not genetically determined. Obviously, there is something else going on with our "judgments" about the issue, since we are quite willing to believe one, but with the same scientific evidence, some are quite unwilling to accept the other. :-)

I'm all for not judging. Till someone judges me or others. That is the model I see in Jesus as well. Again, he frequently condemned (judged) those who judged. It's an interesting contradiction, isn't it?

I also have great compassion for the woman who professed to be Christian as well. I think it must be awful to hold so much anger. But she made a personal decision to think the way she does, it most certainly was not determined by her biology. And therein lies a very critical difference, IMO.

I am quite willing to judge someone as having made a wrong decision about something. That is different than condemning someone, as I see it. If a friend of mine does something destructive, I will be honest about it, and say I see it as wrong. If someone abuses their children, I will tell them it is wrong and report them. And if someone calls themselves a Christian and says homosexuality is a choice; and calls it sinful, I am again, more than willing to say I believe they are wrong.

That doesn't mean I don't like them or condemn them, it just means I think that, like myself, sometimes people who are loving and loveable, are quite wrong about one thing or another.



Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks for sharing Karuuna. You are giving this way more energy and thought than I seem to be willing to do this morning. I wish we could meet and share on a personal level; sounds like there is richness to you and your thinking that would be fun for me to explore.

Gotta go pick up one of my sweethearts (5 year old in preschool) from his Valentine party at school. Take care until I can get back to these boards to read and respond more.



Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
First off the Christian (use that term loosely - why cant I remember names!! ug) was judgemental. and a <RA>, she went about her week interacting etc, in the respect that her blow up at the mom that was living in her home, that had to be a "blindsided attack" imho.

I love the post by scout, and the concern that Hippy brought up - I agree. Appalling.

This Christian mom was over the top in her teenage kids, and I felt it to be a reminder of an abusive situation I was involved in. Setting the table etc, or else suffer the wrath of mom.

Also I felt that the lesbian couples the one mom that directed the yard work etc, she also came across as abusive, in that the mom that was exchanged didnt like the yard work etc, but she seemed very subserviant and did what she was told, that to me also came across as being talked to like a child. When the "Christian" (ugg) mom was "in charge" by "her" rules, I think that may have sunk in, just as when the mom was exchanged and saw how much help the partner gave to his family in housework, and how much the family put into the upkeep... anyway, that was what I was hoping would transpire... but of course out of left field WHAM...

BTW I disagree with an earlier post, I do not believe the Christian mom was "ignorant" ignorant means lack of knowledge, she had the wrong knowledge, but then again, this is just semantics!!



Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 1:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Anything that these people experienced on the show is fair game.. NONE of them had to choose to go on a reality show. The dad wasn't taken to a gay bath house or anything, just to a dance lesson where gay and lesbian dancers were participating. I don't think he was harmed in the least and I don't think HE thought he was harmed.

We all differ in matters of child raising.. and even back when I was babysitting in the sixties and was sad for some of the kids who had tvs in their rooms (less common than now) and I knew how often their parents were gone since I was there to sit and how those kids couldn't even sleep without their tvs going.. but you know, I suspect they all grew into adults and that having tv (or video games or vcrs or movies today.. or the internet) in their rooms.. OR NOT.. is just one of so many factors in their upbringing. And it has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of their parents.

And remember that these people only represent themselves.. in no way would I consider that Kris represents all Christians or even all conservative Christians (or all Republicans) or all people of color.. thank goodness for that. The only reason that her race was significant is that one might think that she'd have a feel for how important it is to be allowed to love who you love, since one would think her parents could have told her how it was not so long ago.

And it seemed like the other couple did a better job of actually learning from the experience.. as hard as it must have been for the woman's partner to be treated as she was by Kris, still, she re-evaluated her attitude of bossiness and both of them saw that their daughter enjoyed having some mom and daughter special time and they have incorporated that into their family.

I think the dad learned that the gay men weren't out to recruit him. Kris.. hard to say if she learned anything.

Mocha, growing up in a white world (Detroit, when I lived there, was said to be the most sharply segregated city in the country) as I did, it can be hard to wrap the brain around how recently racism was just accepted and codified.

My dad was a huge fan of driving the "blue highways" meaning off the turnpikes and main roads that now would be interstates. So he took us to 48 states and he showed us the separate drinking fountains and "white only signs" that just made one want to wail "WHY???"

And of course there is so much to be read, to try to "get" it and wonderful real life people to help me get it..

Julie, do a google search on "Jim Crow laws".. which shows that not only were their laws that enforced separation of races but that these laws were enacted in the late 1800s AFTER the Civil War and Reconstruction and that they actually regressed the situation.. that prior to enactment there was more social mixing of the races. So things can be made worse (one reason the GLBT community has to be so vigilant because there is no guarantee that not only will we stop making progress, but that things will be legislated to make things more discriminatory).


Anyway, this was a difficult episode to watch and I find that I blanked on some of the details.


Terolyn
Member

05-06-2004

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 1:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I was saddened by this show on many levels. I keep hoping and praying that someday one of these reality shows will actually find a true follower of Jesus Christ to put on this show. Someone who portrays his love, mercy and truth. How would Jesus have reacted to the Lesbian couple? I personally believe he would have shown them love, mercy and truth. He would not have judged them I don't believe, I think he would as he often did in the Bible speak the truth to them in love. In the passage where it tells about the prostitute who was almost stoned by the town. He showed her love and mercy and then told her to "go and sin no more". In most every area where Jesus dealt with those who did not know him, he met them where they were, spoke truth, hope and love and then let them choose thier path. The only harshness that he ever seemed to have was towards those who claimed to follow him and in truth had only law and appearance.





Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 1:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
While I think the religious mom may have had some good opinions on exposing kids to R movies, etc. I think her message got lost as she was too busy bashing them for being gay. I was appalled that she suggested the woman could be a sexual predator simply because she's gay. Just shows her ignorance. Would she have worried if the woman was hetero that she would have seduced her sons? Simply beyond ridiculous. The show made my stomach turn.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 1:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have a question which probably doesn't belong in this thread but doesn't Christianity also take into account the Old Testament and it's teachings??

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 2:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It's kind of ironic that over the past 10 years, I have grown to associate sexual predator with PRIESTS boy scout leaders, and hockey coaches, rather than gays.

PS - I haven't yet watched the show (I taped it) and will watch it tomorrow. Tonight I have the update.

Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 2:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
-------------------------------------------------quote

And remember that these people only represent themselves.. in no way would I consider that Kris represents all Christians or even all conservative Christians (or all Republicans) or all people of color..
-------------------------------------------------

Very good point Sea.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 2:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Ok eeyore, I'll see your findings and add I see predators as Grandfathers, uncles, and cousins.(and I do not take offense to eeyore's statement, I see her point, even if DH is a scoutmaster, has been a hockey coach, but he's never been a priest!! *eg)

and Mocha, it does, but Jesus came to us by the Grace of God, for the forgiveness of all our sins, and I read your post and I see Jesus in the temple destroying all the sellers, and how the priests were teaching for their own benifet, etc. In this the priest were afraid of his 'changes'. Also remember that Jesus was asked a few philosphical questions, and thus "how often should you 'turn your cheek' and the response 70 X 70 (or what was that number?!) which didnt that trump the 'eye for an eye" of the old testament? I also was taught that Jesus was a "women's liberator"