Author |
Message |
Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 11:42 am
Well isn't that racist then? That it is okay for a person of a certain color to say something, but not for a person of a different color?
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 11:44 am
Let me put it in a different light. If I wanna call my husband a jerk, I can do that. If you wanna call my husband a jerk, uh no........
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Schoolmarm
Member
02-18-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 11:45 am
There is also a differentiation between "nig-gah" and "nigger"...one is a complimentary term and the other is derogatory. But this is ONLY if it is coming from another brother or sister. I think I have that right...several of my black students explained it to me. Or maybe they were just trying to get out of the reprimand when I wanted them to be polite with each other.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 11:45 am
I have to admit I am curious too. Wouldn't this be inflammatory to Jews, they were certainly slaves during the time of Moses. What about to Christians during the time of Roman rule? Or is it simply a word used to denote ANYONE who is unfairly treated, overworked and abused by another person in authority?
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 11:46 am
could I say that your husband was ACTING like a jerk? 
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 11:47 am
Lol,well here on the boards you could!
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:00 pm
The fact that everyone is discussing the use of the word slave on this board has kinda proven my point. Had the roles been reversed, and the white mom had been using her children as "servants" or whatever, this board would have been full of posts about how horrible she is and recommendations ranging from counseling to removal of the kids from the home. But by simply bringing up a racial issue, the focus has been changed from the bad behavior. It toasts my buns when self serving individuals use race as a deflection from their own actions.
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Max
Member
08-12-2000
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:01 pm
It can be really hard, if not impossible, for a white person to fully understand how some seemingly innocuous words can be like pointing a loaded gun at a black person. I really don't think there are any words, phrases or whatever that can cause as visceral a reaction for a white person as these words cause for a black person. And yes, it's true that if you are black, you can often use those terms with other black people and they are not loaded, however when a white person utters them, BOOM! That's just a fact. You can call it racist -- and maybe it is at some level -- but that doesn't change the fact that the reaction is the same. It's born of a lot of years of pain and prejudice and it won't go away anytime soon. I've experienced prejudice from both sides as well, having been in several long-term relationsihps over the years with men from different races than my own. Prejudice really isn't confined to one race, it's something human beings do to each other all the time. My favorite Star Trek episode of all time is "Let that be your last battlefield" where the aliens encountered are half black and half white -- only on opposite sides of the body -- and thus are at war with each other. It aired in 1968 and was a wonderful statement about how prejudices can tear people apart. Very controversial, given the events that were occurring in the US at that time. Anyway, the point is that whenever you are trying to communicate with others, it's important to understand the audience and frame your message in such a way that they can actually hear it. Using loaded words that cause visceral, negative reactions in your audience, means your message goes unheard. That's the fundamental lesson here. You can plug in whatever audience you want and whatever set of loaded words you like.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:03 pm
Great post Max and that's one of my favorite Star Trek eps too.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:07 pm
Kep, you are quite right. Look how the posts here have gone from talking the show to talking about the word "slave." A similar thing happened with the lesbian WifeSwap episode. It did seem like by the end of the show Doreen had softened up a bit and was sweet with the little kids and was spending more time with her own kids.
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:28 pm
If the white mom had said you are using your son as your own personal waiter,I think the other mom's reaction would not have been so severe. And,the message would have been better heard.
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:29 pm
I think it is sad that we are still at a point that we can not relax and be comfortable with eachother between races. Makes it so much harder to cross "color lines" when you have to watch what you say and hope you don't say something that offends another. I am not talking about the "Extreme Words" but to be honest I would have never thought that using the term slave would cause such a outburst. I mean I have used it before complaining to my kids/husband etc that I am not your slave but I never thougth it in terms of what has been expressed her but just plain out I am not your personal servant. I also use the phrase of "My Name is not Hazel" refering to the maid of the house from the 60's television show. Or is my name Madge? Oh well - guess you learn something new everyday, but personally I think sometimes we get way to sensative and need to relax a bit.
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-22-2003
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:32 pm
I agree with Kep and Max. Both are great posts and I agree with both. I think that there are some who genuinly are offended by the terminology and some who do use race to benefit themselves. That's what's so interesting about the human race is that we have all different kinds and nobody is exactly the same therefore will not react the same too.
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Scout
Member
01-20-2005
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:33 pm
Max, you said, "I really don't think there are any words, phrases or whatever that can cause as visceral a reaction for a white person as these words cause for a black person." Are you serious? A painful comment hurts and it wounds, I don't care what color you are. Ask a Jewish person, how it feels to be called a derogatory name, or a crippled person how it feels to be made fun of, or even ask a woman how much it hurts to be called fat, stupid, ugly, etc. Words hurt. They hurt everyone. But considering the same words an insult to one group (no matter what context is used) and okay to another is just confusing. No one here can truly claim the experience of being a slave so I don't see how one race has any more claim to use the word than another. Hippyt - you're assuming she meant the term slave in a racist way. I still don't think she did. Why should she have to phrase her statement that way?
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:38 pm
Mocha, I'm sure you do command respect from your sons but I can't imagine you using that look or that voice with them (not on a daily basis, not just over daily activities, anyway). I agree, the word (or actually more than one word as was rightly pointed out already.. the mom telling the white husband that he was basically a failure).. the words caused a breakdown of communication between the swapped couples and have deflected the discussion here.. though of course HERE, we are discussing the show and the effects of the words were a big part of the show. However, beyond the words, I was surprised and pleased to see the apologies on each side. I also liked it when the black husband defended his wife at the final meeting. I loved loved loved seeing the mom who didn't like kids warm up to that swarm of little kids and take that home to her own sweet sons!! And to see the other mom get some help from her own husband and hopefully also in the future to let her girls know that they do have choices for their own futures. I loved seeing those boys happily spending time with their parents and BOTH parents learned before it was too late (the older son looked like he could have gotten to the age where he might reject parental closeness) to appreciate spending time with their boys. I loved that they were eating together. They went from a family which was extremely apart much of the time to sharing time, maybe more than some families! I hope the white mom also learned about communication and how if you find that a word or action is shutting people down then if your goal is communication, you need to rethink your approach. Free speech is important and the right to exercise it is critical, but there are times to exercise rights and times when you should exercise the right to moderate what you say in order to communicate. Scout, I'm thinking that the important thing is family time, more than away from TV time, especially if that means you parents are viewing what your kids view and then being able to discuss it with them.
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:38 pm
Scout,I'm not assuming anything. I'm expressing my opinion.
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Scout
Member
01-20-2005
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:47 pm
Sorry Hippyt - didn't mean to assume you were assuming (or offend you)
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:49 pm
Scout, she didn't have to use certain words or not use them, but since presumably her goal was to get her point across, once she saw that the word put up a barrier, then best not to use it. I do agree that there are very hurtful words that can shut down people of many groups. I try hard to take in the whole situation.. not just the words that make me flinch but who said them and what their motive might be. But consider if you have a psych diagnosis.. some things said meant to be jokes or break the ice may be painful to those of us with the diagnosis. Being a member of any group or collection of people where stereotype are flung around or a whole group is painted with a broad brush.. that can hurt, can cause such isolation or even be life threatening.
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-22-2003
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:52 pm
Scout-I haven't watched this episode yet, it's on my tape but I have a sneaking feeling she probably didn't mean the term 'slave' in a derogatory manner as you mentioned. I too (as another poster mentioned) use the term slave to joke to my partner,"Pick up your clothes, what do I look like your slave??" I'm not thinking of a black, white, yellow, brown ect person when I use the term, I am using the term as a way of saying I am doing work that I am feeling forced to do which I do not want to do. Just my 2 cents....I'll be back once I've actually seen the episode.
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:53 pm
Hippy, I think you are right.. if she had said personal waiter, although that woman did have a tendency to sit in bed and yell loudly and to yell right up in the other person's face, as she did with her son in that one clip. I suspect she didn't take criticism all that well and she certainly had her own share of generalizations that she spat at her swapped husband. But the good news was that she didn't let her anger at the word stand in the way of changing her relationship with her sons and husband. BIG plus in my book. (I'm still amazed that people go on this show when the other swap show has a $50,000 prize)
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:56 pm
I know this is not about the show, but I have to mention this incident. My son was in a school that was 80% African-American and he was the only white kid in his class. A behavior notice was sent home with him one day because he used the n-word. He couldn't understand why he got in trouble when other kids were saying it and nothing happened. I used the same words Mocha did a few posts back, but he still didn't understand. Then he came home upset one day because a black kid had called his grandpa a "honky" and they didn't get in trouble. So, in seeing it through his eyes, there was a double standard. I have black friends who do not like to be called African-American because, as one of them put it, she was not born in Africa and had never been to Africa. She is an American who is black.
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Scout
Member
01-20-2005
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 1:01 pm
I agree with that, Seamonkey. She didn't express herself as well as she might have. I didn't respect her for insulting the husband or emasculating him. Someone once said that almost every joke makes fun of someone, and if you think about all the types of jokes there are, it's true. You have to be so very careful about what you say. Everyone will base what they hear on their own personal experience, so what might sound innocent to one, can devestate someone else. I'm amazed they do it without the $50,000, too.
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Max
Member
08-12-2000
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 1:08 pm
Scout, Of course words hurt. I know that first-hand having spent much of my life being maligned because I've always been bigger than average and having spent seven years in a very emotionally-abusive relationship. My point is -- and maybe I wasn't entirely clear -- that there are certain words that inspire a visceral reaction in some groups and cause communication to break down. Since we are talking about what we saw on the show, the group in question is black people. You said, "No one here can truly claim the experience of being a slave so I don't see how one race has any more claim to use the word than another." True, and there are only a few Jewish folks still around who can claim first-hand experience of the genocide of WWII, however if you went into a Jewish home and started a conversation by saying, "You run your household like the commandant of a concentration camp," would you really expect to continue having effective communication? Communicating effectively and avoiding pitfalls that hinder communication is a very difficult thing to master. And, as has been pointed out in many posts here, navigating through the minefields that hinder communication can be very confusing. I don't know many people who are always successful and I'm sure all of us stumble occasionally. I'm glad to see that this kind of show can at least spark discussion about the subject. I do admire the participants in this show who, like these two couples, seemingly come away from the experience with a renewed outlook on how their family interacts and their household is organized. That, ultimately, is worth a lot more than $50,000. 
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Vsmart
Member
02-10-2003
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 1:16 pm
The fat woman was shown siting in bed & eating ice cream. The fat man was upset that he had to help out instead of watching tv. Talk about stereotypes.
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 1:44 pm
Actually I thoutht the man who sat and watched TV was in better shape than the one who did all the cooking and cleaning. But just showing a heavy person eating ice cream doesn't mean you are saying ALL people eating ice cream or heavy or all heavy people eat ice cream. I was thinking more of "all muslims are Taliban terrorists" or what the black mom said to her swapped in black "husband" "you are like all black men and why I married my (white) husband" Those are broad stereotypical statements.
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