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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 6:40 pm
What a great word! I wish I'd known it before! salvific, a. Tending to save, causing salvation. 1591 R. BRUCE Serm. v. M2b, The mair that this Countrie is watered by that saluifik and heauenlie dewe. a1660 HAMMOND On Hebr. xiii. 15 The sacrifice of salvifick praise. 1667 WATERHOUS} Fire Lond. 65 There is most use for them, when their presence is salvifique and repulsive. a1711 KEN Christophil Poet. Wks. 1721 I. 511 To Souls born blind, their cheerful Sight, The Radiance of Salvifick Light. 1946 R. A. KNOX Epistles & Gospels 223 A salvific law, promising life to Israel only, might have seemed to contravene them [sc. the promises of God]; not a purely damnific Law like that of Sinai. 1958 Times Lit. Suppl. 17 Oct. 599/3 Stephen would have seen in the Crucifixion nothing ‘salvific’, but only the latest in a series of crimes committed against the prophets of the pure religion of Moses. 1967 E. R. FAIRWEATHER in Clark & Davey Anglican/R.C. Dialogue (1974) iv. 49 Anglican theology has revealed no sympathy with..any other doctrine which would minimize the reality and the salvific role of Christ's human will. 1979 J. HICK in M. Goulder Incarnation & Myth vi. 199 It is no longer acceptable..to assume the salvific uniqueness of one's own religion.
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Halfunit
Moderator
09-02-2001
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 6:43 pm
rotfl, I had to Webster it myself. salvific: having the intent or power to save or redeem
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 7:54 pm
Unfortunately there are plenty of young people like him that have no respect for authority and I don't think it's making the us or the world better off.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 7:54 pm
For Quakers, pacifism is an article of faith, not one of politics; they simply refuse to believe in violence as a solution to problems So for them to advocate non-violent solutions is right in line with what one would expect of them as surely as they would observe Easter. Not just Quakers, you can include Mennonites, Amish, Dukhobors and a few other sects I cant remember to that list. I am Mennonite from my mother's side. The men refused to fight during the Second World War due to religious beliefs...that got them taken away from their families and put in "Work Camps". Thanks for the info about Quakers but I dont think that these people seemed church-religious at all. Mind you, EDITING editing editing LOL
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 8:07 pm
Just because someone is in authority, does not mean they deserve respect. That kind of thinking empowered HItler. I'm just sayin'....
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 8:07 pm
Obviously my point was missed and I'm done trying to explain it.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 8:19 pm
It wasn't missed, Mocha. Sorry if I gave that impression. I just disagree. Not everyone in authority deserves to be treated respectfully. Just because someone is older than you doesn't automatically garner respect either. Heck, I still remember in my teenage days flaunting a bumper sticker that said "Question Authority", so I don't know that the youth today is any different. 
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Vee
Member
02-23-2004
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 8:23 pm
It isn't what is said, it is the manner in which it is said. That young man was embarrassingly rude and I think both of his own parents thought so by the end of the show. Now, I also found the Christian mom rude, but I am assuming that listening to that young man spout off day in and day out would have been very demoralizing. Hopefully, once he had the chance to see himself in action, he recognized (for himself) that his behavior was ugly without having anyone point it out to him. He is as set in cement as any legalistic person and guilty of the very same kind of attitude — I, and only I, am right.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 8:43 pm
Vee, as I posted earlier, I think they both have that to some degree. Rude? Maybe. But regardless of how rude someone is to you, you always have a choice about how to respond. One would think that the older of the two would have learned to have more decorum, but she didn't. Everyone seems to excuse her behavior, because Dan started it. And apparently because the young should indiscriminantly be respectful to the older. Frankly, I'm not sure who lit the match, but I'm certain they both threw fuel on the flame! Having said that, I think in most situations everyone is better off if you are civil. But civil is different from respect, in my opinion. And civil varies highly by culture. (If you've ever seen the House of Commons on television, there's a lot of what we would call extremely rude behavior going on, among a bunch of adults.) I would rather excuse youthful zeal, especially in the case of his willingness to care about what's going on in the world (fairly atypical of someone his age), than some appeal to respect because of age.
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Puzzled
Member
08-27-2001
| Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 9:19 pm
I believe that people are entitled to a certain level of respect, whether you agree with them or not. This boy's attitude was hostile and aggressive and the military Mom deserved more respect than that, not because she's older, but because she's a feeling human being. It's healthy to question and challenge, but the way he treats others is unacceptable.
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Vee
Member
02-23-2004
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 7:34 am
And the whole reason for "children" being "trained" to be respectful is so that they may not grow into completely obnoxious adults. I think we can all recognize the adults in our world who were allowed a free rein. As I said, it isn't what one says, it is how it is said. Children can be taught to question respectfully because everyone deserves respect as human beings, just as Puzzled said so well.
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Justalittlebean
Member
08-15-2003
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:30 am
I think the military Mom was to strict on the kids. I wonder how many years she spent in the military. My husband retired from the military and our children were taught manners but our home is nothing like her's. We never lined our shoes up under the beds and some of the other stuff she did. 
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 12:36 pm
Vee, I very much disagree. Once you are an adult, you aren't a product of your raising. I know some adults who were raised horribly, yet are amazingly decent human beings. And I know others who live under the tight reins of parental control and become rude and miserable anyway. Military mom wasn't exactly respectful either, yet she isn't getting near the outrage that's being poured out over this young man. If anything, an adult should have higher expectations on their behavior. Why do we expect more from the younger generation, and less from the elder? Isn't that backward?
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 12:51 pm
I agree with you Karuuna. I missed the second half of the show, so I really am not "qualified" to comment too much. But I think (from the 33 minutes that I did see) that the military mom was really too mean/hard on her kids. I think it is good that the teen did question stuff.
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Vee
Member
02-23-2004
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 1:00 pm
That's not the point I am addressing. I don't agree with the way military mom was raising her children either. I think that even she had grown by the time we saw the update. (And as I said before, it would not surprise me to find that the young man has made changes as well.) My point is that children are raised to be respectful so that they learn to treat people with dignity. I hold military mom to account for her rudeness, but this young man was so revolting to me personally that I would tune him out in a second. It always comes down to this in my world: If one wants to be HEARD, one must speak with RESPECT.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 4:41 pm
"Once you are an adult, you aren't a product of your raising" I respectfully disagree. We are all a product of how we were raised. Whether it was positive or negative, a person cannot help to be shaped by their childhood environment. It is basic psychology. Many of us do things completely different than our parents BY CHOICE BECAUSE of how we were raised. Other people may do things the same as their parents due to strong family traditions and values. I believe in Respecting my elders, for instance. I am not there to judge them and frankly I've met a few older people who are full of beans LOL. BUT it would be disrespectful to 'talk back' if you know what I mean. Poor Dan would have had a bar of soap put in his mouth for talking back or been standing in the "naughtycorner" in my household LOL
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 5:53 pm
Given that he is an adult, just still living at home, would you have tackled him and held him down to wash out his mouth? 
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 5:54 pm
That boy was an adult??????? I thought he was 17? If he is stil living at home, he ain't an adult! ;)
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 5:56 pm
Not sure his age, Annie, the parents kept saying that it was time for him to be out on his own, so I guess I assumed adulthood from their statements. If he's old enough to be on his own, he's an adult (in my opinion). Anyway, that's still beside my point. Even if he was 17, do you think he'd stand there and open his mouth for a bar of soap? I'm thinking not....
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:00 pm
He's 17.
quote:Then she ran headlong into 17-year-old Dan Leierwood, who was spoiling for a fight.
article
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:00 pm
No, don't think so, LOL
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:02 pm
quote:"The big play in the show focuses on (the Leierwoods') oldest son, Dan, who is 17, atheist and is the total opposite of me," Patrick said. "I'm a devout Christian, a supporter of the war and why we are there and he hates me for being completely the opposite of him. He attacks me all the time. Constantly. Constantly. It became a nightmare."
article
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:46 pm
I don't think all adults should be considered authority figures. But there is something about anyone being a guest in your home that would suggest some level of respect. I also don't think she came into the house with flames issuing from her mouth.. she was trying to be heard and he just shouted her down. Also part of the rules of the show, in the second week, say that the visiting mom makes the rules. So she had some expectation of being heard. I sure wouldn't have been tolerated for that behavior in my parents' home at age 17, but of course they'd have never considered something like wifeswap anyway.
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Auntiemike
Member
09-17-2001
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 7:34 pm
If Dan was an atheist that would kind of blow out of the water the assumption that was made earlier that he was a Quaker. Wouldn't it???
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 7:40 pm
I don't know Auntie. He was raised Quaker I believe. Because he rejects one part of their philosophy (the belief in God), doesn't mean he rejects all of it - the pacifism, etc. In addition, I don't think the Quakers would care much if he was atheist. Their view of God is quite a bit different than traditional Christianity as mostly proclaimed in this country today.
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