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Archive through November 21, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Other Reality Shows ARCHIVES: Apprentice II: Episode 11/18/04 (Spoiler): Archive through November 21, 2004 users admin

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Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Who...I thought so also, in fact, it would have been better to fire Maria and then call them back in and fire Wes..much more fun!

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 12:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hey Lance...Remember Troy? DT liked him too and tried his best to challenge Troy to do better. I remember thinking at the time that the Donald was being hard on Troy, but then it turned out he was trying to light a fire under him.

I still think Donald was trying to spur Andy into a "I'll show him" type reaction. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Donald only does that to the people he's truly interested in. If he doesn't like you, Donald T could care less how you perform....

Like last night when he told Maria..."No cares about what you have to say"....In contrast, Donald obviously does care about what Andy has to say. He singled Andy out and then acknowledged that Andy had a good reason for remaining quiet...

But just my take on things...

PS...its Carolyn Kepcher and George Ross

Lancecrossfire
Moderator

07-13-2000

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 1:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Kep, I agree that DT likes Andy--at least to some degree--not sure who much. I think he also likes an underdog who isn't screwing up--who is trying.

Good call about the "No one cares what you have to say" line last night. He hasn't done anything like that to Andy.

Trump is very verbose--very out there and willing to say how god he is--Andy is more quiet and seems to reply on his actions to speak on his behalf. I think this is a difference that has got DT's attention to some extent.

Roxip--thanks for the correction about Jennifer.

It is 2 to 4 next week--either DT has to split them again, or put them together.

I also liked the comment made last night that the CEO (PM in their case) doesn't have to have the creative juices--they have to lead those who do.

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 1:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think that Donald wants to see if Andy is show or go...so far Andy has excelled at the one task where he was highlighted but otherwise hasn't been really a leader (and has sulked somewhat when he hasn't been given a task that suited him). I think the Donald wants Andy to step up more and stop acting like a schoolboy. Andy's obvious lack of "real world" experience shows at some points. He did great at the real estate task but so far has shown more "follower" potential than "leadership" potential in the rest of the tasks. For instance, why didn't Andy get into Maria's face last night? He too just sat and watched Maria and Elizabeth (?) go at one another. If he was truly concerned about the task at hand getting done he should have helped been part of the solution, not just sat back and armchair-quarterbacked Wes. They all seem so much more interested in protecting their position than winning - I think they were all hoping that if they failed they could all lie it down at Maria's feet. True, she put herself in that position but it sure backfired on Wes.

Sorry this is so disorganized!

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 1:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Raj will be on "Apprentice Talk" on Fishbowl Radio in about 15 minutes. If you can't make it, the archive will be up this evening.

Lancecrossfire
Moderator

07-13-2000

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 1:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Roxip, I think you have made a VERy important point--one I hadn't realized till you said it.

They were more interested in protecting their position than in winning.

Excellent thought, as DT is very much an out there kind of guy who doesn't like to play by sitting back and play it safe every minute. He likes to see risks, (that work!), he likes to see people in charge be in charge, and he likes to see assertiveness.

I'm not used to the ethics of the business world--I know they can be different from what I'm used to. I think Andy is liked by DT and Kep originally said--I do agree with that after seeing all the posts today.

Gen
Member

08-22-2003

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 2:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Last night when Wes was talking about how Maria was so out of control, Carolyn said: "Well why didn't you bench her?" I believe this also came up last year with Omarosa in the last project. I wonder if they are told that they are allowed to bench or fire another contestant. If they haven't been told this is OK, then I can see where they would be reluctant to do so.

Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 2:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Gen, I think he actually did consider getting rid of her but told DT that he didn't want to lose 25% of his workforce. However, in my opinion, if that 25% is creating more than 25% of the work/headaches, maybe he should have bolder and just put her out of the picture. I can understand why Trump didn't see Wes "step up to the plate" as PM on this one. I did not think it was up to Andy nor Ivana to discipline Maria; that was the PM's job.

Gen
Member

08-22-2003

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 2:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Good point, Auntie! I forgot about the part of losing 25% of his work force. The other time that Wes was PM, I thought he was pretty much of a wimp, just as he was last night. I don't think he likes confrontations. A good PM or CEO has to have the guts to step up and do what is necessary.

Buggles
Member

09-07-2002

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 2:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It surprises me that Wes is such a weak leader, in light of many of the comments he has made & his intelligence. I wonder how badly he really wanted the job. He wasnt playing like he did. There is something interesting about him to me... Im not sure that I would LIKE him, but his eyes seem well beyond his years, esp with the dark circles.

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 3:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think Wes was intimidated by Maria. He wouldn't have had a problem controlling Andy or Sandy like that, imo. There was a scene with Sandy and him in the hall and he seemed more agressive with her in those few minutes than he did with Maria all day.

As far as firing somone on your team goes, its a double edged sword. The first PM who benches a player will be called out in the boardroom for not being able to turn a bad situation good and utilize their employee to their advantage.

Rslover
Member

11-19-2002

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 5:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The best line was when Maria said she wasn't controlling. I was surprised that Jen couldn't comprehend what they were talking about. And yes, that wheel has been around for years. I have seen it used sporadically by various companies. But, I thought Ivana suggesting it (and having it fit in the pocket) was a better idea than the other team had. I am starting to like Ivana more and Jen less. That brochure with all of them facing forwards (with few butt shots) missed the total point of the campaign imo.

Babyboo
Member

06-16-2003

Friday, November 19, 2004 - 8:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Maria is a very pretty lady but i think she is a little wacko.

Carlito
Member

03-26-2004

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 12:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
As said earlier this episode was one of the better
edited shows except i think there was more that wasnt included.For example i cant accept that Wes was as passive with Maria as he was shown to be. I also believe there was more of Maria's controlling behavior that was not shown.The portrayal of Jenn as someone not able to comprehend the abstract strikes me as absurd.Any
law school student will tell you that the ability to interpret and analyze the abstract is critical
in interpreting statutes and torts. I did not buy that portrayal of Jenn.
The real reason Mosaic lost was Wes was too passive and failed to maintain control of a subordinate who was out of sync with the team.The team also allowed Maria to seize that control and
run with it.
Throughout the series, Maria has shown glimpses of an erratic and controlling management style.On top of that she has been shown as a person who will lie and deceive to avoid blame.Does she sound or appear like someone else we all know in our everyday lives??? HMMM.
Ivana did finally demonstrate the grace and professionalism needed in the way she handled the
situation during the Levi presentation with Jenn.
You can bank that she will revert to her basic style and confront or attempt to backstab Jenn during the next episode.Count on it.
Someone on another board suggested it would be very interesting if there was another change in the team dynamics resulting in Jenn and Ivana being the respective PM's next week. Now that would really become competetive.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 12:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think if it is set up for Ivana to lead, then she is being set up to fail. Despite her wheel idea (which many of us have seen before), she is more destructive than constructive. Up until this episode, we really didn't see anything from Ivana that said "WOW, she's good. I could see her winning this thing." Ivana is one of the women that acts childish and dramatic. Everything out of her mouth is critical or whiney.

I could see her being a PM, and the team failing, her blaming and criticizing everyone else on her team, and then her being fired. Finally.

That said, I think she was polite about Jenn taking control of the presentation, but it's too bad she was all "Woe is me" when Jenn was celebrated by the Levi's president "in front of Trump" as Ivana put it. Boo hoo Ivana. Welcome to LIFE. How many of us have had a good idea, only for someone else to take credit for it(usually a manager)?

I'm saying Ivana vs Andy next week.

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 1:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I was impressed that Ivana didn't speak up and say 'hey! that was my idea not Jen's!'...I hope DT finds out that it was, I would think Carolyn would have told him, wasn't she there??

I can't stand Jen and I agree she is like a Fembot!

Highlighter
Member

09-03-2003

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 3:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I haven't seen this episode yet (it's Tivo'd for tonight! :-), but I read through this thread anyway and here's my thinking......

I wonder if it will end up being Andy and Jen in the last twok, and the editing has set up Andy to be the one we "pull" for. Last time, there was no one that I really was actually pulling for (both were okay to me), but for example, the Bachelor often seems to end up with two in the finals with one woman being kind of wacked out (Kirsten....) and the audience holding their breath thinking the evil one will win....

With the editing on this TA run, the editing has been showing more little snippets of Jen being kind of in Fembot mode (like the police ad ep where she was shown casually putting on lipstick while the others stressed over ideas); otoh, you have Andy, who has been shown in clippets feeling frustrated at being ignored, put down, degraded, etc-the stereotypical good guy underdog. I could see a showdown between these and everyone up in arms thinking airhead Jen might win over poor guy Andy.....

I don't like Jen, either, but I couldn't honestly say if it was just because of editing or deserved. KWIM?

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 4:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
editing didn't make her look she didn't understand. LOL

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 5:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree.. she didn't understand and Ivana wasn't the only one to think that..

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 5:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm trying to figure out who will win. Isn't that the fun of it all?

I only watched the last few episodes of the original Apprentice. I'm guessing Trump knows who will win, who he wants to win, by now.

It's all about the editing. Is Trump deliberately making Jen look a little slow?

I thought Raj was going to win because he had the most personality.

I thought for sure that Ivana would be gone but she showed some spark with the innovative Levi wheel, which Jen essentially took credit for.

What do we know about who's left? Kevin sweats a lot and is black. Kelly is the same as Bill who won last year, isn't he?

What is special about Sandy?

Maybe he'll bring Bradford back and give him the job because no one else still alive deserves it?


Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 6:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
My first post about this season. I dislike Andy immensely. Yes, when they made that NYC Police ad, he seemed to forcefully push through HIS vision of what was needed. But he did it in a childish, nonteamwork way.

Now I find that when Andy goes to the Boardroom he spins HIS version of what HE feels happened and I notice he often Rolls his eyes and squirms around like a Kid in the Principal's office.

I dont care HOW good his marks were in school!! He has NO EXPERIENCE and practically no ability to work smoothly as a team.

hopefully he will be next to be FIRED.

BUT then again, this show seems to be about conflict not neccesarily about the ability to do a job.

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 6:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Newman wrote <Kevin sweats a lot and is black>

what the hell is that supposed to mean???????/

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 10:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
LOL Pamy

Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 10:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm with you Pamy.
Just what IS that supposed to mean Newman?

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 1:32 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Newman's comment was clear to me. The line says that WE DONT KNOW ANYTHING about these people who are left.
- Jen looks a little slow?
-Raj had the most personality.
-Ivana showed some spark with the innovative Levi wheel, which Jen essentially took credit for.
-Kelly is the same as Bill who won last year
- What is special about Sandy?

Newman also wrote 'Kevin sweats a lot and is black.' as part of the general comments about some of the contestants.

I feel absolutely positive that Newman just means that we have not been showed WHO Kevin really is. Surely people arent thinking that Newman was being racist by noting that Kevin is a man of colour??!

I am Canadian. Maybe I am not as easily upset about the subject as others.