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Episode 10/14/04 (Spoiler)

The TVClubHouse: Other Reality Shows ARCHIVES: Apprentice II: Episode 10/14/04 (Spoiler) users admin

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Archive through October 14, 2004Costacat25 10-14-04  6:38 pm
Archive through October 14, 2004Curlyq25 10-14-04  7:40 pm
Archive through October 15, 2004Eeyoreslament25 10-15-04  9:38 pm
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Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I also noticed the voice over for DTs speech to Kevin. I was going to post it and forgot. Thanks for bringing it up. I wonder what that was all about. The facial expressions of the guys didnt seem to match up to DTs words either .

Part of me wondered if DT accused John of race being an issue as to why John brought Kevin and not Wes but then they redid it after all the racial stuff with the stacie firing. I am merely speculating and it shows I have way too much time on my hands.

Luvmykitties
Member

01-02-2004

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 12:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Curlyq - THANK YOU! I've been complaining about not being able to view the Dossiers like last year. I've been going to the yahoo site, and never noticed them posted there. Thank you!!

I also noticed the change in DT's voice in the boardroom.
I thought that for whatever reason, DT did a voice-over at a later date to replace whatever what was originally said.
It sounded like the way he talks when he's reading something - like when he gives the recaps at the begining.
It was weird.

I also wondered what was up with the guys and the sunglasses. I thought they were doing it to try to look cool. They should have put them up on their head when they were in front of DT.


Fruitbat
Member

08-07-2000

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 1:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The extended footage for this week will be shown on CNBC on Tuesday night at 10pm. Just read that at FORT.

Konamouse
Member

07-16-2001

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 1:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
"They should have put them up on their head when they were in front of DT."

Proper etiquete would be to remove them from your head and place them in a pocket or briefcase, or at least folded on the table in front of you.

"I also noticed the change in DT's voice in the boardroom."

Hubby & I both noticed it immediately as a voice-over change in script. Looking forward to the "extras" on the extended version (if we can find it tonight).

'squeek'


Fruitbat
Member

08-07-2000

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 2:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Kona, read my post above yours.

Peeper
Member

06-14-2004

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 2:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I hate the way there seems to be alliances this year. This week the guys brought in Andy...I dont understand why because from the editing it seemed like there was a problem with the PM and pricing and Raj, but no show of Andy making a mistake.

I guess Kevin is not in with the guys alliance, because he defended Andy (which seemed to be the target). So i guess next boardroom Kevin will be put in the hot seat.

I think Trump must be noticing this...that is why so many PM are being fired because they are bring the wrong person into the boardroom.

Fruitbat
Member

08-07-2000

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 4:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree Pepper. They form friendships and do not want to take their buddies. I doubt it is a formal alliance.

Trump says, every damn time, that he does not understand not taking 3 into the boardroom. No one is picking up on this. Your chances are one in four to go as opposed to one in three.

They are not paying attention. Bring the ones who failed or did not stand up, not the players who do not fit into the clique. So silly.

I liked seeing Kevin defending Andy. Trump and George like Andy quite a bit thus far.

The woman who is driving me nuts is Elizabeth. Stacy does not have an easy personality but she is correct most of the time. Certainly with Pamela she was.

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 8:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
When John was choreographing his upcoming boardrm session, asking his buddies for their input - I thought one of the guys said something to the effect that (even though Keven and ?Wes? goofed up on the pricing) John did NOT want to take the pair of them into the BR. They were both strong & would gang up on him - so it was better to take a weaker person (a.k.a. Andy).

NOW, I understand how (as someone said earlier) ...IF Andy was the person pushing to use Apex's designer, and they ended up losing (in need of a scapegoat) the fact that Andy was initially correct probably rankled the egos.

When they showed the drool-session with the models, Andy was at the back giggling but not participating.


Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 9:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
DH always wonders, too, why they don't take 3 people to the boardroom instead of only 2. I think it's totally politics. I figure that if they only take two people, then if one of the others gets fired, they'll only have one other person on their team pissed off at them rather than 2. Doncha think?

Thanks for posting the pics of Kevin, Tishala. As soon as I saw him on my TV, I laughingly told DH, "Kwame's back!" (Remember Kwame answering the phone in his boxers last season? What legs!)

Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 9:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Babyjaxmom, that's exactly what Pamela told Trump during the first boardroom session. If you don't get fired you'll have one more person with a grudge against you. I also think that if you take 3 you've got one more person ganging up on you in the boardroom.

I don't have much problem with Elizabeth, maybe because she shared my lack of enthusiasm for all those capelets. Stacy is by far the one I would've expected to get fired right away. She's way too argumentative with whoever's put in charge. Jennifer strikes me as having a loyalty problem, and Maria and Ivana really bug me. Ivana is the one person who shouldn't be opening her mouth to anyone considering she would've been gone weeks ago had Bradford kept his exemption.

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 10:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I personally thought the Mosaic clothes 'put the Ug in Ugly'! Surely must be a Drycleaner's nightmare, with mismatching types of fabrics in some single garments - fry one part while pressing the other part. Even Bloomingdales would have to consider whether women would find them wearable, especially at those prices.

When Apex women came in that morning, to see and play dressup in the finished product, I believe Darren/designer said to MariaPM "I've written the line items for you". Darren seemed more interested in the project all the way around, likely perceived this as a golden opportunity to show his 'stuff'. Ilsa seemed to have a bellyful of the young pups from the gitgo (I don't blame her in the least!).

I rewatched my VCR tape. On the Mosaic team, Raj was pestering Ilsa & Everyone about what to write for the line items, plus it looked like he was endlessly interrupting Ilsa about other silly stuff! John the PM, NOT Kelly, should have been the one to corner Raj or find him a babysitter.

I don't think DT could/would say that the design was part of the reason for failure - young pups had the final say. There would be an outcry of 'unfair/defamation' from the fashion side of the industry. The designers were working with inexperienced novices (Albatross-like around their neck) - heck, (after she left for the bathroom!) one novice decided to show Ilsa how to do her job. He started sketching, since he was a wannabee designer. Mosaic also refused to take her expertise (I believe one item she said $95, they cranked up to $210 if I understood correctly).

Fruitbat
Member

08-07-2000

Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 5:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I definately get the dynamic of only taking two to avoid creating another ememy but it is not working for the leaders! Trump sees what they are doing and does not like it. He, afterall, has the final say.

The teams should talk together about this before they start a project. The leader could say, I will take the players who are responsible for the loss with me and leave friendships at the door. At least they will be expecting it and know it is not personal.

Luvmykitties
Member

01-02-2004

Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 9:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think the PMs have made a bigger mistake than not taking 3 people into the boardroom -
they seem to be taking the wrong person/people in.

It seems like just about every boardroom, it is questioned why someone is in the boardroom rather than someone else (i.e. this week why was Andy in the BR? Why didn't Jen C bring in Sandy? etc...)

Ivana got blasted on why she brought 3 people into the BR because she couldn't justify all 3 people. In that particular task, Jen C had no business being in there.

This week, Wes should have been brought in (if the reason being the pricing and the reason for bringing Kevin in).
I think this week Wes, Kevin and Raj should have been brought in.
Maybe the stuff we didn't see would explain why the PM chose to bring in Andy (although I doubt it)

Fruitbat
Member

08-07-2000

Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 10:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree Luv.

They just dont like Andy and want him gone. That is all I see.

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 1:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I dont see why they have a problem with Andy. He came up with the sweepstakes idea for the toothpaste and they won. He chose the right designer and they didnt listen to him. He seems to do what they want and add something to it also.

I liked Kelly but didn't like him ganging up on Andy too. Thats why Kevin is my fave. He will go to bat for anyone, regardless of politics.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 7:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think the guys really did screw themselves over the pricing. They needed to realize that the prices they were charging were NOT the prices the consumers would pay... these were the WHOLESALE prices. Meaning, something that they priced at $95 (I can't remember which item it was), would have to RETAIL at something closer to $250.

Happymom wrote: "Also, I think Raj wrote the descriptions of the clothes for the announcer at the runway show. Who wrote these for the girls team, was it their designer?" Yup, it was the designer. And a very smart move, too!


She also added: "I think that was more important to show than the fact that the women relied on their designer's suggestion that they did not have to take the measurements of the models. When they showed one of the women saying this, I thought that was foreshadowing of a big problem, but nothing ever came of it." Having modeled before, I can guarantee you that the measurements they had "on file" for the models were more than enough for the initial fitting. They would've had pretty much every single measurement, including shoe size and hat size, on file. The designer and sewing folks can get very close based on those measurements, and require minimal (if any) final tweaking at the fitting.

FWIW, I think the guys picked the wrong designer because the designer didn't design for the people. She seemed a bit too eclectic for mainstream USA (this is slightly proven by our reaction here to her clothes). Plus the fabrics chosen were very masculine (the designer could've softened some of the lines with a softer drape).

I'm pretty much not impressed with Raj any more. I thought he had a lot of potential earlier on, but I am really getting tired of him tripping all over his tongue when a "pretty woman" wanders within his view. It's actually pretty disgusting, and downright unprofessional.

John's fatal flaw was in bringing Andy to the BR. As soon as I heard he did that, I knew he wasn't long for the show. Trump has been firing the PMs this year for making bad decisions, and that includes bringing the wrong people back. Kevin and Wes screwed up on pricing, Raj spent a lot of time bothering the designer... he had several other choices. Instead, John selected Andy, who didn't NEED to "step up" during this task (Kelly seemed to do all the "stepping up" needed, after all).

So now Elizabeth is gonna be the next "target" on the women's side. <sigh> And there was Maria, making a decision (the designer) and doing exactly the women griped about Pamela last week (making a unilateral decision). <sigh>

What is UP with these people? I swear they all act like they are 19 years old (NOT that there is anything wrong with that, but these are supposed to be the creme de la creme? ick!).

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Monday, October 18, 2004 - 4:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Costacat ~ They needed to realize that the prices they were charging were NOT the prices the consumers would pay... these were the WHOLESALE prices.

THAT BLEW ME AWAY, I hadn't even considered it. That makes such a difference, no wonder Trump knew immediately they were overpriced!

Costacat ~ Having modeled before, I can guarantee you that the measurements they had "on file" for the models were more than enough for the initial fitting. They would've had pretty much every single measurement, including shoe size and hat size, on file.

Thank you for the behind the scenes info, all the way around. I thought this msmt stuff might be the case, but wasn't sure.

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Monday, October 18, 2004 - 4:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I hope you all enjoy this Monday Business article as much as I do, last week I read that she's only watching the 1 hr weekly show and drawing conclusions for the class & series from that:

Seattle P.I. Business Section, Monday, October 18, 2004

'Apprentice' 101: Understanding product is a winning strategy
By MAUREEN MORIARTY
SPECIAL TO THE POST-INTELLIGENCER

With 13 candidates remaining, the sixth episode of "The Apprentice" began with Donald Trump's challenge for both teams to pick a clothing designer and launch a new clothing line at an Avon Fall Fashion Show. The winner: the team who earned the most money selling their fashion line.

The recap: The women broke their four episode-losing streak in a turnover capitalizing on their feminine fashion savvy. They crushed the men with sales of $22,060 to the men's $7,735. Trump fired the men's team leader, John, citing, "too many bad decisions."

The following are lessons learned from my armchair quarterbacking of the sixth episode.

First Downs


Know your market.

Maria (who touted her minor in home economics) led the women's team by capitalizing on their fashion sense. Before choosing their product line, they began with a criteria to only accept designs that they personally want to wear. This was a simple but effective strategy. The women's fashion industry is a complex market. Designers who can create fashions that the majority of women want to wear sell the most clothing. The women of Apex wisely understood their market and created a product appealing to them.


Collaboration and creativity.

The women of Apex finally started to gel in this week's episode. Their team worked more effectively together and resulted in higher levels of collaboration and creativity. Although there was still evidence of some backstabbing, it was far less evident than in previous episodes. They were able to rally around a common, decidedly feminine, task that united them.


Identify factors that impact team performance.

Maria, stated that Elizabeth "overanalyzes everything" and believed that Elizabeth would confound and confuse the designer selection process. She strategically evaluated Elizabeth's potential impact in a time-critical situation and made a decision to eliminate this negative threat to team performance.

Maria smartly assigned Elizabeth a task that sent her away. Minus Elizabeth, the team reached a decision in less than 45 minutes, eliminating their historical catty bickering and ineffectiveness.


Leaders will rise to fill a leadership void.

Meanwhile on the men's team, Kelly again demonstrated strong leadership and a willingness to help his team when it was needed the most. Raj was continually distracting the time-crunched designer. Understanding that joking and eccentric personalities can be disruptive to team performance and that John, the team's project manager, wasn't handling the situation, Kelly directed Raj to stay out of her way to allow the designer to complete her vital tasks.


Penalty Flags


Assess which leadership style to use with individual people.

John announced from the beginning, that his leadership style was to delegate -- with everyone. Delegation can be an effective leadership style when the leader believes that the person they are delegating to has the necessary competence and commitment required for the task. John delegated the critical decision of determining price to Kevin and Wes. What evidence did John have that these two men could competently make this decision? Neither of them had any experience in the fashion industry.

Trump clearly defined the reason Mosaic lost was due to inappropriate pricing. I was surprised that John, given his responsibility as the project manager, had no direct involvement in this critical decision. A leader must be involved with, clearly understand and concur with critical strategic decisions. Ken Blanchard, author of "Leadership and the One Minute Manager," describes leadership as knowing when (and when not) to delegate, support, coach or direct with individual employees with different skills and management requirements. A leader must first assess the individual competence and commitment and not simply treat all employees equally. For example, some employees will require more direction, supervision and support than others.


The workplace is not the place to pick up women.

The scene of the men measuring up and trying to pick up Trump's fashion models was highly entertaining TV. I keep saying that "The Apprentice" is far more about ratings than it is about Trump picking the right candidate. In the real world, drooling openly after beautiful women is not professional workplace behavior.

When the men of Mosaic were ogling the models, they had their eye off the ball and the goal. Trump also identified this performance as unacceptable and directly chastised Raj in the boardroom for his "hound dog" behavior.


Know your market.

Granted, the women had a natural advantage for this week's task, but the men should have consulted more resources -- including women -- before making decisions in an industry none of them had experience in. They relied too heavily on their designer, Ilsa, who was overwhelmed with their constant demands on her limited time. There was no indication that the team researched additional resources to provide them with critical market information required to be successful.


Open and continual team learning.

High-performing teams put a high value on learning from their mistakes and their wins. These teams take the time necessary to mine the learning from their team experiences to apply to future scenarios.

The men's team failed to learn by their QVC experience from the previous week, that high price and low volume might well result in lower sales. I was surprised that Wes and Kevin, after being given the expert advice of the designer about where to set the price, chose instead to "jack the price up" and without input from the team or manager. This move ultimately cost their team the win and John his job.

Lesson Learned From The Boardroom: In episode after episode, Trump has demanded that project managers bring into the boardroom the people directly responsible for the team's failure. John chose to bring Kevin and Andy into the boardroom despite the fact that Wes had co-ownership of the pricing task with Kevin and Andy had no pricing responsibility. Trump chewed John out for failure to bring Wes in with Kevin. Leaders need to spend time in self-reflection and learning lessons from their previous experiences. A good coach always reviews the play tapes and applies the lessons learned for the next game.


ABOUT THE SERIES

What can real-world business leaders learn from the popular NBC series "The Apprentice"? That's the question the Seattle Post-Intelligencer posed to Maureen Moriarty, who uses the show as a teaching tool in her Bellevue Community College course. She'll try to answer that each week on Mondays through the show's regular season.

Maureen Moriarty, M.A., is a professional accredited executive coach, corporate leadership trainer, team facilitator and founder of Pathways to Change. She is teaching a continuing education leadership course based on "The Apprentice" for Bellevue Community College.


Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Monday, October 18, 2004 - 7:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    

quote:

I dont see why they have a problem with Andy. He came up with the sweepstakes idea for the toothpaste and they won. He chose the right designer and they didnt listen to him. He seems to do what they want and add something to it also.




If I remember correctly, the sweepstakes thing almost cost them the challenge. It wasted a lot of their time and didn't pan out. They had to move quickly to put something else together. In the end the girls' promotion was deemed superior but their budgeting mistake was what cost them. Since then I've wondered if this was when the rest of Mosaic decided to quit listening to Andy.

Producerchic
Member

06-29-2004

Monday, October 18, 2004 - 8:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think the guys made another mistake (I haven't seen this mentioned so far -- if I missed it, I apologize! :-) ) -- but... didn't Ilsa, their designer, do all of the sewing and that's why they were so rushed? And didn't Apex hire seamstresses to do all their sewing, allowing Darren to set prices and gather up info for the buyers?