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Archive through December 06, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Other Reality Shows ARCHIVES: Apprentice II: Episode 12/02/04 (Spoiler!!!): Archive through December 06, 2004 users admin

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Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Friday, December 03, 2004 - 9:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Ivana and her team looked sloppy and uncoordinated. How many New Yorkers are going to buy candy bars from people who look practically homeless?

If they had dressed alike, in M&M colours, or the two guys in the same colours and Ivana in something "dressed up," looking like a team, they would have sold more.

Oh, well, in the end, their pricing was what flunked them.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Friday, December 03, 2004 - 9:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
upstate, ITA. Jen and Sandy were not dressed overly sexual. It was a weak excuse on Ivana's part. Ivana had issues with Jen. It seemed to me that Ivana has a complex against Blondes named Jen.

Dropping your skirt only works in one profession, that I know of.

There was NO WAY Trump could have kept Ivana. She lost a lot and then took off her skirt for 20 bucks. Kevin looked like a god compared to her. Not even a close call.



Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Friday, December 03, 2004 - 10:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I didn't think Jen and Sandy were dressed overly sexual either. I actually was surprised when they panned out and saw how long one of their skirts was and that they hadn't dressed "more so." What Ivana did was totally classless. I also was struck when Ivana said she was a "good team player" in her defense when what Trump is looking for is a leader. That was a very poor response in my opinion and I agreed with Caroline when she said something to the effect of "This person would be running one of your companies!" He doesn't need a team player for that, but a strong leader and that she was not!

BTW: My favorite sparkling wine is Cinzano and I can buy a lot of "champagne" cheaper than I can buy that. Unfortunately, if I'm making something like a Bellini, I'll go for a cheaper sparkling wine.

Annie
Member

11-10-2004

Friday, December 03, 2004 - 10:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I didn't think Jen and Sandy dressed overly sexual either. I re-watched on CNBC tonight, and I agree w/ Puzzled, Ivana and her team looked sloppy, especially Ivana. The baseball hat on her head, and the rolled up short sleeves on her shirt were tacky. Another thing that amazes me is how Kelly and Kevin thought Ivana belonged in the final four vs Jen? Is that because Jen does things we don't see or is it because they are all threatened by her? DT has said before how mean Ivana can be when it's not necessary. She helped get rid of Sandy the crazy and when Sandy was brought back, Ivana contiuned to bad mouth her. Is it obvious I wasn't a fan of Ivana?

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Friday, December 03, 2004 - 10:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
If Ivana didn't lose when she dropped her skirt, she certainly did when she just couldn't get off the Jen issue in the boardroom. She was supposed to prove why she deserved to stay rather than Kevin.

She seemed to think if she stated her "I'm more deserving than Jen" case strongly enough, DT would say "oh, ok. Jen was on the winning team. But I'll fire her and keep you since that's what you think is fair."

She just didn't seem to get it. DT and Carolyn both said, "but Jen isn't here. You are."

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 1:42 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Ivana has seemed jealous of Jen for weeks now...this past episode showed just how adversarial Ivana had become. Jen wasnt even IN the boardroom. I listened to most of this show (was cooking) so I many have missed abit but it seemed that Ivana went a little OFF kilter when she found out what the other team was doing.

I truly feel KEVIN needed to go this time. Ivana has worked her butt off and was looking for Kelly's backing before reprimanding Kev for dropping his price per bar. I didnt hear that happening......so I assume Ivana didnt confront Kevin.

Kevin has NOT stepped up and frankly, each task which requires the ability to DEAL with people HE MESSES UP. In the icecream challenge no one wanted to buy anything from him on the street, and now the same thing AGAIN! I am truly starting to think it is because New York People are racist and dont want to interact with a black man on the street (no matter WHAT he is wearing or appears like)

OR......Is it that Kevin is so awkward around people? I am confused WHY he has made it so far. Ivana at least took risks. HOWEVER, she stepped over the line of goodtaste so I do understand why DT chose her to go.



Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 2:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Ahhh.....Sunshyne, I think it all came down to the flashing. There was no call for it, AND she was team leader. Everything about this loss stank of Ivana.

First, they had the pricing issue. Well, in PREVIOUS tasks, every pricing issue has been blamed on the PM (John, Pamela). Why should Ivana get some special treatment this time around?

Second, Kevin wasn't listening on the pricing. Again (according to past firings) we should let that responsibility fall on Ivana. Ivana did not TAKE CONTROL as PM and get her "workers" in line. If Wes got fired for not taking control of Maria, Ivana should be fired for not being in control of Kevin. How WEAK a leader are you if you have to wait for Kelly's permission to reprimand Kevin.

Third and final problem with Ivana as PM was her absolutely RIDICULOUS idea that stripping for 20 bucks was a good idea (oh yeah and they got a free chocolate bar). That was NOBODY'S idea but hers and she actually WENT UP TO PEOPLE and asked if they would like to give her 20 bucks and she'll take off her skirt!! You cannot blame Kevin for THAT. That move was one of the most shockingly unprofessional, unclassy moves I have ever seen. I'm sure her parents were proud!!

Those three factors were Ivana's own demise, and it's not like those were new factors for firing a person. We've seen all of those reasons already this season. She should have known better.

The final kicker was her non sequitur comments about Jen being the one who should be fired. She showed everyone how irrational her thinking was last night. Trump's decision was the right one.

Ivana has not been a good worker. She dodged a BIG bullet in the second week because of Bradford's stupid move to give up his exemption. That week, with Ivana as PM, they failed miserably and after being called indecisive, she went from two to three people coming into the boardroom with her, thus showing more indecision.

I see no reason for Kevin to be fired this week. No one has ever really said anything horrible about Kevin, and he wins. He can't be all that bad. I think Kevin is a classy guy, and, like Jen, this may not come across well on TV. I personally think Bill was very quiet and seemed ineffective last year too. But he was just a classy business guy, and didn't talk if he didn't need to. I think that's the key to success.

That said, I know I talk too much.

Annie
Member

11-10-2004

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 3:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Let's clarify.........Ivana showed her butt, Kevin sold bars for less. If Kevin fails it's because New Yorkers are racist?? I hope your not serious. Kevin hasn't been shineing thru the last few episodes. If Kevin were white, Asian, Black, Indian or heaven forbid a woman he hasn't come across as being a good leader, don't blame his surroundings on his short comings. I think even Kevin would find your comment appalling! Kevin failed on the pricing, but he didn't offer up himself for $20 either. Caroline was right on the money when she said "you weren't selling the candy bar".

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 7:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Sunshyne, do you really believe this:

>>I am truly starting to think it is because New York People are racist and dont want to interact with a black man on the street (no matter WHAT he is wearing or appears like)<<

Whoa, I think you are waaay off there. Way, way, way off. So far off that I can't even comment any more on it. And I would be way more offended by that than by saying "Kevin is black."

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 8:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I don't get why New Yorkers are labelled as racist for not buying from Kevin.. maybe they were racist AND sexist for not buying from Ivana.

I agree that she lost it the moment she dropped her SKIRT (she did NOT "drop trou" and she had on quite modest undergarments.. it was her action not what she showed).. and Carolyn's eyes narrowed..

She had to go but it doesn't make me like the idea of either of the other remaining women winning.

It really seems like several of the candidates were ousted on small technical points this year and we aren't left with the real talent, so much.

I mean he is hiring someone to train.. not quite the same as recruiting someone off the board of another large corporation and expecting them to be fully formed.



Rslover
Member

11-19-2002

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 8:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Eeyores,
I know, but it really is supposed to be made with an Italian sparkling wine, like Proseco since the Bellini (named after the painter) originated in Venice at Harry's Bar.

Kittystj
Member

08-10-2001

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 10:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm sorry, I must be on of the few that wanted Ivana to win. She has come up with great ideas. (the Levi catalog wheel) (Which Jen tried to hog the credit for)The Pepsi ideas and slogans. Jen has done nothing really, and I can see why Ivana had no love for her. Yes, she should not have dropped her skirt but I feel that Trump would have excused that if not for Caroline. Caroline seems very bitter towards the women.Does she fear competition?

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
No, I think Caroline holds women to a higher standard because she knows that it is more difficult for a woman to get ahead in Trump's organization. Its not fair but it is true...women have to work harder and hold themselves up to a higher standard than men, and I think it really irritates Caroline to see these women who are bitchy, catty and manipulative and use their bodies in an inappropriate way to try and get ahead. She wants them to succeed on their brains, their savvy and their leadership skills, not on their bodies. Ivana's ultimate downfall was her nasty mouth and her really bad attitude. She totally missed the point in the Board meeting.

Gen
Member

08-22-2003

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Roxip, I totally agree with all that you said. The way that the majority of these women have acted does not show leadership. Ivana may have had good ideas and worked hard as a team member, but she did not show leadership skills. She is emotionally volatile and indecisive. That does not make a good leader.

Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I’ll start by saying it’s easy to be a critic – and now I’ll be one.

I honestly can’t believe how poorly these people seem to be playing the game (or whatever we want to call it). The leadership skills they have demonstrated are generally poor, they haven’t demonstrated good teamwork, and they haven’t shown much originality.

Really, from a business standpoint, did Ivana and company do absolutely anything to win that challenge? They made the bars and stood on the street trying to sell them - period. A bunch of Girl Guides could have done as well as they did (probably better). No attempt to market or come up with a winning strategy.

And then Ivana stoops to the totally irrelevant strategy of getting someone to pay her to take her clothes off. What has that got to do with selling chocolate bars? Morality aside, how can Trump evaluate her skill as a business person based on that? All he knows is that she is willing to take her clothes off to succeed in business. Wow – I guess I missed that in all of the “how to succeed in business” books? This is a learning experience.

Also most of them have been appallingly poor in the boardroom, defending their play and actions. Weren’t these people selected because they were among the best and exhibited the qualities that produce business success? I guess not.

Vsmart
Member

02-10-2003

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The problem is not sexism. DT would have chosen Amy from last season over any of these contestants.

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 12:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Jimmer, I agree with you. Very few of these people have really risen to the top...I think Kelly may be one of the strongest...he has attempted for the most part to keep this team on track (regardless of whether he was the team leader) and seems to manage himself well, but I think he doesn't show his strength in the board room. These people keep thinking this is a popularity contest...it really should be interesting to see the next episode when they are no longer a team...who will rise to the top? That is when they will really show who has the stuff to make it and who doesn't.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 9:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
OMG, this was just a bizarre episode.

First of all, Sandy and Jen planned. They had a strategy, they coordinated their look, and they looked professional (professional enough for selling chocolate on the street). Ivana and crew? They looked, well, like slobs. Yeah, OK, so they had on M&M wear. But what was their advertising? J&S had the M&M van right near them at one point.

And then Ivana loses it when she finds out the women are asking $5 for a bar, and are getting it! I swear I thought she was gonna swallow her tongue!

And THEN she lets Kevin sell bars for $1 while she and Kelly continue with their original price. Hello???? She lost control right then.

AND THEN SHE LOST IT COMPLETELY. $20 for a peek at her panties? And she thinks she was wearing more clothing than the other women? And she had the brass cajones to call THEM strippers? Sorry, but good riddance. I'm really glad to see her go.

I'm now seriously hoping that Jen and Sandy make it to F2. I think either of the two will make a good apprentice. Both would be eager to learn (and I'm not so sure Kelly wouldn't be lording it over every one and his or her mother if he got that position). I think Jen will come off better in the face to face interviews; she'll keep her cool.

$20 for a peek at panties? Heck, if I wanted a peek, I'd lift up my own dang skirt.

Aside from the fact that she was the PM and her team lost -- by a lot -- Trump did basically throw her out cause she stripped. There's a world o' diff between a gimmick (women dressing alike) and stripping. She was out of control, had lost control, and Trump saw it. Thank goodness!

Boberg
Member

10-04-2002

Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 12:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Soooo....how do you really feel about how Ivana handled the last task Costa...lol

Actually I so agree with you... and I couldn't help wondering what the people at M&M'/Mars were thinking when Ivana dropped her skirt while attempting to sale their product...lol


I thought Caroline hit the nail on the head when she said "It wasn't really candy you were selling, now was it"...

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 2:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm glad Ivana was fired, I've not liked her attitude that is shown on tv... and I remember too that if not for Bradford's smug worse attitude, she would've been long gone... due to her questionable leadership abilities, imho!!

Now interesting enough with J&S dont forget Caroline's notice of thier behavior while trying to make the darn chocolate bars, and if its truly that hard to make, i"m wondering why M&M is even making them!! (I saw them at the grocery store for 49cents!) She was definately appalled while watching them!

(just hit a blue delete uggg!)

OK now I was thinking that who is kidding whom if J&S were getting $5 a bar for the same reason Caroline stated! and as far as that goes am I the only one who would've given Kevin $5 for a bar and a "kiss"??? just thinking mind ya!

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 7:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Two things I found curious. Ivana said that her undies were bikini bottoms. If that is true, did she plan to drop her drawers? WHo would wear bikini bottoms unless they were planning ahead?

Also, I don't get why m&Ms would allow this show to happen at all. If someone is out on the street, selling their product at $5 or whatever they sell it at, don't they think that the people might get a negative reaction to M&Ms for selling their bars for so much? I wouldn't want to associate myself with selling candy bars for that much, if i were them. It seems like a stupid business decision, imo. The people who bought it just know who made it, they don't know its a contest for the Apprentice.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 7:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Fab, they weren't bikini bottoms. They were boy shorts, but I think she meant bikini undies (as opposed to, say, thong undies). Meaning, she didn't show anything more than you'd see on a beach. However, she neglected to remember she was not ON said beach! :-)

Remember, too... these bars were not yet available in the stores (when this was filmed). So people were paying for a first, sneak peek, at the new candy bars. I think J&S were working that angle... a brand new candy bar not yet on the shelves...?

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 9:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree with you Jimmer that Ivana and Co. did nothing special to win that challenge. I'm not a salesperson and have never been one, but I would think that setting up a colorful table and offering free samples might have been better than getting in people's faces like they did. I'd go to the other side of a street to avoid being stormed like those poor people were.

And I agree with what appears to be the majority of you...Ivana lost the second she even suggested that she would flash for $20.00. I was surprised that the NYPD didn't step in. While she had on boy shorts, or whatever they were, she clearly dropped her skirt in public and was sort of selling sex in a way (for a lack of a better way to say what I'm trying to say!).

Rslover
Member

11-19-2002

Monday, December 06, 2004 - 9:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
"I am truly starting to think it is because New York People are racist and dont want to interact with a black man on the street (no matter WHAT he is wearing or appears like")

Sunshyne,
Though your comment may ring true for most of America, it certainly is not the case in NYC. This is one of the most liberal minded cities with a melting pot of diversity. The truth is that there are probably more vendors (who are not caucasian) in the city than any other city and people are constantly approached not only to buy things but with various flyers thrown in their face.

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Monday, December 06, 2004 - 9:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
{$20 for a peek at panties? Heck, if I wanted a peek, I'd lift up my own dang skirt.

Snorted coffee!}