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Archive through October 01, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Other Reality Shows ARCHIVES: Apprentice II: Episode 9/29: Archive through October 01, 2004 users admin

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Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I don't blame Caroline for being testy. I would be beside myself having this bunch of women supposedly representing successful businesswomen.

They seem to have little self-control and practically no concept of team work.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I thought so too about the food, Luvmy. But since they got the same score, it really didn't matter.

Lady, good point about Elizabeth/Jen doing the same thing.

I also thought for a one day thing, they would be much better off offering typical american dishes...

Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 1:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Do you all remember how the women were ostracized last year about using sex appeal to complete their tasks successfully? Well, I'm surprised no one has said anything about this guys on this restaurant task. I thought it was blatantly obvious they were relying on that one guy's sex appeal when waiting on the table of 4 gay men. The suggestion was made for him to bend over and tie his shoe by them. He did end up "schmoozing" them enough so that they all seemed pretty happy when they left. Hmmmmm.....double standard?

I, too, am embarrassed for the women on this show. I told my sixth grade daughter that their behavior is what I expect from girls her age because they are still learning on how to function and how to grow up. These women should be beyond that by now. They really don't come across very professionally at all. There are only one or two I feel have some potential.

I also loved it when they began the show with the responses of the guys to the booting of Stacy J. I think they had some really good points and observations and the women needed to hear them. I was glad we got to be in on that too.

Laura11103
Member

08-13-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 1:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Auntiemike, I didn't feel that the men really used their sex appeal much, when the women got in trouble for that last season, they had layed it on THICK, just because they had an idea to use their cutest guy to bring the food IMO doesn't compare to what the women did last season. Also, he didn't actually bend over and tie his shoe or anything, lol.

Boberg
Member

10-04-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 2:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Auntiemike..good point about the double standard..I guess the inability of the women to get over their personal pettiness and work as a team is so glaring that the "using sex" by the guys (this one time that I know of) seems funny. Oh well, I laughed..lol

I agree with Carolyn...the women are embarrassing and the previews for next week indicate that it just keeps on.

Riviere
Member

09-09-2000

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 2:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It was a no brainer to me that Jen got fired. She cannot refrain from opening her mouth every time someone else has the floor. It's a terribly argumentive and self defensive behavior. I guess DT viewed her as taking things to a too personal level? It's not like she wasn't told point blank to be quiet and wait her turn to speak.
Aaarrgghh, that restaurant and Jen's criticism of the patrons! I noticed right away all the women wore black and they did cluster up a lot instead of discreetly going into the background if they had nothing to do on the dining floor. Reminded us of a flock of crows hovering and watching the diners! Very poor restaurant etiquette there. The men deserved winning this one.

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 4:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I was telling DH this afternoon that I blame the pettiness and the inability to get along on the people responsible for casting this show. They picked the "pretty" girls and apparently didn't look too hard at their business skills. These women are setting the women's movement back a few decades. Smart, professional women work together as a team. These women don't seem to understand that.

Also I didn't think the men's team so much used "sex appeal" as they were just better "schmoozers" than the women (imagine that?). There's absolutely nothing wrong with a server who slathers on a little extra attention, even to the point of flirting. If the customer enjoys themselves and feels they've been well taken care of, it should be reflected in the tip--or in this case, the Zugat survey!

Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 4:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I didn't agree with the guy that was getting so hot and bothered over Stacie's firing last week. What Elizabeth did was strategic and it worked. She knew her competitor had a weakness and she didn't let the opportunity to use it pass her by. That's the kind of move Trump seems to respect more than taking the high road (which in Trumpland is interpreted as a "life-threatening mistake"). Those people who were riding her about her decision are in for a rude awakening when it's their turn to face the Donald. If they want to work for a guy like that, they need to pay attention to the way he does things.

I also saw the men's behavior as repugnant when they talked about asking the waiter to give those gay customers a blow or whatever. They couldn't handle their criticism of the food so they tried to make a joke out of them.

I'm hoping Maria is one of the next to go, even though Ivana has come off as somewhat incompetent at times. There's just something about Maria, like an attitude or something, that rubs me wrong. I know a lot of us think the women are so embarrassing compared to the men, but we need to remember these women weren't just cast for their business skills. They were hand-picked to give us drama and something somewhat pretty to look at. I do, however, think Carolyn needs to rein it in a little. She's trying too hard to have more of a camera presence this season, and it's just a little too transparent.

Vsmart
Member

02-10-2003

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 5:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Bill is so professional compared to these childish girls. Great episode. How long was the task? You can't really put together a restaurant in 2 days unless they had a choice of preselected chefs, food, decor, etc.

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 6:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Interesting about the comments made here about Jen's comments on the two customers she felt ruined their rating.....Stacy focused on her saying "Jewish women." Most people here commented on the "old Jewish women" angle. Am I the only one who distinctly heard her say, "fat old Jewish women?" She was just spewing every term she deemed as negative that would discredit the validity of their rating. And, IIRC, I sure don't remember seeing them as fat. That one sentence she spewed was just as disrespectful as Pamela's kid comment a few episodes ago. Arrogance towards your client base is a stupid attitude to take.

Isn't she also the one who asked them about the decor, and when they admitted their honest feelings, she seemed to try to talk them out of that? I don't remember what she said to them, but I do remember the prolonged, "ok, now do you get it?" look on her face as she stared them down.



Beachcomber
Member

08-26-2003

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 6:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Who, you are so right. She was almost bullying them in a demeaning way to get them to get them to give the restaurant a positive review. I loved what either Bill or Carolyn said about them hovering over the customers, like vultures!

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 7:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Whoami, I remember Jen's remark as being even more hateful. I think she called the two women "two fat, old Jewish battleaxes" or something equally horrible. I turned to DH and said, "Do these people not remember that there are cameras filming their every word?" It made me think that DT purposely got that on film in case it came out later that Jen was an anti-semite (ala last year's Omarosa crying racism). It was very ugly, but she did say it. I can only imagine what those two women felt if they were watching the episode! She deserved to be fired. I'm sure DT felt good about his decision, especially after seeing how she talked about everyone else. Very, very unprofessional! (As well as hateful!)

I also thought it was really rude the way the guys were talking about the gay men (Hello! Cameras?), but I wasn't at all offended by John's treatment of them as their waiter. He just seemed to be going the extra mile to make sure they enjoyed themselves. I can only imagine what they thought when they saw the whole thing on TV, too!

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 8:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Oh my. Funny how things are "heard"... I went back to my tape and what she said was they were "bats", not fat.

Here are her actual words:

First time Jen referred to them was during the task; she said "Two old ladies." No other adjectives at that point.

Later after the 1st boardroom when they were in the loft she said "It was the old Jewish bat ladies." (I think she meant to "old bat")

A little later she said "...jaded old bags" and then "...cheap old bats."

Nothing anti-semitistic about it really. Not nice at all, but not anti-sematic (hey what is the correct term anyways?)

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 8:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Julieboo, what was her point in even adding the word "Jewish" with all the other adjectives? why say "jewish" with old, bat ladies?

eta: please know this is not an attack, i'm not trying to "start something". i, personally, don't understand why she would say that unless she had some sort of hatred behind it.

Rslover
Member

11-19-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 8:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Really? If they were Asian, and she said something about "those Chinks", would that be racist to you? I found Jennifer's comment to be totally anti-semetic. Not saying it three times doesn't make it any better imo! Even once was quite enough. (I thought Chris' comments were offensive as well.) How did she know they were Jewish anyway? Instead of accepting responsibility where they went wrong she tried to blame their loss on two of the diners. I have participated in Zagat surverys. Others had to score along the same lines for them to get the lower scores.

Luvmykitties
Member

01-02-2004

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 11:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Julieboo - I also re-watched it to see what they said (before you posted). I was curious after reading all the posts.
(btw - since you asked; proper term is antisemitic (have seen with and without the hypen). OR, you could say Jen is an antisemite. Depends on the usage.)

I watch TV with Closed Caption and when they were in the loft, it did type "fat" when she said "It was the two old Jewish fat ladies. They were like the pinacle of the New York jaded, old bags... ...cheap old bats". (or bags - couldn't tell)

Now that's not to say that Closed Caption is always accurate because it's definitely not.
I kept replaying it to see if I could see Jen's mouth when she said it, and it was too difficult for me to tell.

Doesn't matter either way. It was stupid to say any of that.

And the fact that she didn't see anything wrong with what she said?

Personally, I didn't see it as antisemitic, but it was definitely derogatory.


Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 11:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
.







Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 7:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Resolver, if she said a derogatory Jewish term, then that would be racist. She said Jewish. Is "black" a racist term? Is "gay"?

She did say "old bags" and "old bats," but those are not JEWISH derogatory remarks, they are just derogatory.

Also, I totally agree that Jen was TOTALLY wrong for saying anything mean about those ladies. How she holds their opinion as the reason that Apex failed is ridiculous. She could never keep her mouth shut and she was wrong for what came out of it.

I just don't happen to think she was being racist.

Also, my CC also had "fat," but I rewound it several times and also did it in super slow and regular slow motion and she said "bat," not "fat." I don't really like Jen, not trying to defend her, except I do like getting the facts straight as possible.

I agree with Luv: it was not antisemitic, but it was derogatory...

Rslover
Member

11-19-2002

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 7:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The point is she used it in a derogatory context. I would feel the same way if she used the term "wop" to describe someone she assumed was Italian. If she just said "those two old ladies" it wouldn't have been so bad. To just look at someone and decide their religion (based on her stereotype) verus an obvious ethnicity makes it even worse, imo.

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 7:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I don't think refering to someone who is Jewish as Jewish is derogatory or racist. Even if they aren't Jewish. IF the elderly ladies weren't jewish, the most Jen would be in her statement is incorrect.

It isn't any more racist then refering to an Asian as Asian, or a black person as black, or a white person as white. Those terms in and of themselves are not negative or derogatory labels.

If I was trying to describe a very well tanned person to someone else, I might decribe them as a black person. I could very well be wrong, but it wouldn't make me a racist to make an assumption like that. Maybe Jen saw something, like a piece of jewelry that was a star of David, that led her to think the ladies were Jewish. It appeared to me she made a judgment as to whom the ladies were, but I don't think the judgment was race biased.

Now calling someone a "chink", or a "kike", or a "cracker", THOSE are racist terms and were designed to promote negative feelings towards others.

Jen is guilty of stupidity...not racsism..imo

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 7:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Rsolver, "wop" IS a derogatory term.

Yes, Kep, Jen is guilty of stupidity, not racism!!

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 7:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
ALso Kep, what is a "cracker?" (maybe I do live in a cave. Is it derogatory for "white?")

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 7:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
yep, like whitey!! lol...Didn't ya ever watch Jeffersons??? LOL

Gen
Member

08-22-2003

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 8:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
In some areas, cracker may be a derogatory term, but not always. A native Floridian is called a Florida Cracker. In a state with some many transplants, it is a term of honor, just like a Georgia Peach or a North Carolina Tarheel.

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Friday, October 01, 2004 - 8:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
And the nice thing is that Jen was paid back for her asinine remarks and her pettiness and stupidity by GETTING KICKED OFF THE SHOW! Sometimes that kharma thing does work out well, doesn't it?