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Lycanthrope
Member
09-19-2002
| Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 11:49 pm
Yes, so that's part of it. The scar-horcrux. Parseltongue was a part of it, but Harry's immense power may come from Voldemort.
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Dolphinschild
Member
06-22-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:30 am
Ironic, Voldemort in a sense is fighting himself LOL Karma is a *itch huh?
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:09 am
I think more than any other story-line in book 7, I am looking forward to the resolution of Snape's character. Since book 1 it has seemed to me to be an absolute no-brainer that Snape is good, not nice but good. I know plenty of people think it's a no-brainer that he is evil, but of course they are simply misguided. My daughters have been reading one of those theory books and it brings up points and subleties that I had completely missed. Things like right after Snape has killed Dumbledore he and Malfoy are fleeing: "He (Snape) could blast Harry our of the way without a second thought if he wanted to, but instead he stands there and lectures him on the value of nonverbal spells and the importance of avoiding Unforgiveable Curses. Why does he do that? Purely and simply, to improve Harry's chances of defeating the Dark Lord." Then even after Harry's keeps taunting him, Snape refuses to lose his temper and even stops the other death-eaters from hurting Harry. Finally he uses a simple spell to throw Harry to the ground and then escapes. This is a hardened murderer who had just killed Dumbledore? The book surmises (and I agree) that the turning point in the final battle btn Harry and Voldemort will involve Snape betraying V. Also very interesting is that Snape owes a life-debt to James Potter. In POA (page 356) Rowling tells us that Sirius was setting up a prank on Snape. Snape was told how to immobilize the Whomping Willow and get beyond it. But what was waiting for him was a full-grown werewolf (Lupin) who would have killed him instantly. James found out what Sirius was planning and saved Snape at risk to himself. The book also guesses at who won't survive and Hagrid is at the top of the list but I don't like that so will just pretend I didn't read it at all. LOL
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Neko
Member
08-03-2001
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:21 am
I don't believe Snape actually killed Dumbledore, and it was a giant ruse to make Voldermort believe that one of his main opponents are off the playing field so that he'd feel safe and maybe make a mistake leading to his downfall.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:32 am
I can't remember where/who pointed this out but it was interesting..... If Snape had killed Dumbledore with that curse then Dumbledore would have died instantly, right? So how come the spell keeping Harry imobilized does not undo until long moments later? Long enough that Harry cannot look over the tower and see Dumbledore fall to the ground. Having said that, I do tend to believe Snape killed Dumbledore, I just think he did it on the headmaster's direct order. The book gives lots of evidence of this, one which I found interesting was that McGonaggal is accepted by the headmaster's office immediately as the new headmaster. Remember when Dumbledore disapeared in OTP and Umbridge could not gain access? Even though she was officially named headmaster, the spell on the office knew different. They also talk about how fiercely loyal and connected to their owners pheonix's are. Yet after the funeral Harry notes that fawkes left the grounds. p. 632 HBP "And he (Harry) knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good, just as Dumbledore had left the school, had left the world.." I love this book. LOL It was written by the folks at mugglenet.com and is basically the conclusions of tens of thousands of avid readers who have all had their theories bantied about and discussed ad naseum.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:11 am
I think we have to look at the exact words of the prophecy: The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches …Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies…and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not…and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives…the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies … The big question is if Harry is a Horcrux, does he have to die to kill the Horcrux? In the prophecy it says "either must die" not both. I was rereading Half-Blood Prince and it's funny how many little clues JKR throws in that may come up later. For example, Dumbledore rather teases Harry on their mission to recruit Slughorn by asking him how he knew he wasn't an imposter. He says: "You have not asked me, for instance, what is my favourite flavour of jam, to check that I am indeed Professor Dumbledore, and not an imposter …. For future reference, Harry, it is raspberry …." LOL – I have no clue if this will be significant or not later on but she throws out so much stuff you never know what will turn up again! By the way, I enjoyed that book as well, Rissa. It was a fun read with lots of interesting theories.
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Dolphinschild
Member
06-22-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:44 am
Thanks for posting it the prophecy Jimmer. "neither can live while the other survives" This is the part of the prophecy that tells me that they both have to die. I like Rissa's, Neko's and Jimmer's posts I think I need to read Half Blood Prince again myself, before I get the new book.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:57 am
I bought the first three books all at once. Then when the 4th came out... I reread the first three first. Same with #5 and #6. Don't think I have time before Friday to read all six. Should have thought about it earlier. LOL Is anyone here doing the midnight thing? I did last time because my (then) 16 yr old was soo excited and I could think of worse things than encouraging a teenager to be a book groupie. LOL This time I preordered it but was just going to stroll in sometime on Saturday to pick it up. I had all three daughters (18, 15 and 11) set me straight, there's NO WAY they are not going at midnight. LOL
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Dolphinschild
Member
06-22-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:08 am
LOL Rissa. No Midnight here, but I already have my book on order and already paid for half of it to guarantee my book. I am excited to pick mine up. I didn't read the first 4 books, even though I had them. I know Shame on me LOL. I read book 5 and 6 last summer. I couldn't wait for the movie to find out who died in them. It was killing me and no one would spoil LOL. I don't regret reading them. I intend to read all of them. I noticed when I watched the movie last summer, there was a lot in the book that was left out, so I know I am missing so much not reading the first 4 books.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:17 am
They do leave an awful lot out of the movies.
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Neko
Member
08-03-2001
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:42 pm
quote:I can't remember where/who pointed this out but it was interesting.....
That was me in General Discussion, which no one seems to read or respond too "In the tower scene in book 6, Harry is petrified by Dumbledore. Harry sees Snape cast the AK spell at Dumbledore. Harry sees Dumbledore slowly fall off the tower. After Dumbledore hits the ground, Harry is now longer petrified. Harry figures that Dumbledore's death released the spell. But Harry must be wrong: AK kills instantly, so Harry should have been released _before_ Dumbledore started falling to the ground. Moreover, a third person can release the victim of a Petrificus spell; on the Hogwart's Express at the beginning of the school year, Draco petrified Harry, and Tonks released Harry from Draco's spell. On the tower, Harry was un-petrified just as Snape disappeared into the stairwell. And Snape, BTW, has previously shown that he can cast an area-wide spell that cancels all currently operative spells; he did this once in a class. All this suggests that what happened on the Tower may have been quite elaborately staged, and that the people who staged the event wanted to ensure that Harry saw everything. " So my speculation, is that Dumbledore will return in DH to help settle the score, Snape is really good, and Draco will be redeemed because in his inability to kill Dumbledore himself, his family, Voldemort and the death Eaters, will turn on him and disown him. I'm not sure where he'll turn, for the sheer fact that all his "friend's" parents are death eaters or affiliated with them. I wish I had a ton of free time to re-read all the books before Deathly Hallows comes out, but with a job and my 2 summer courses, I doubt it. I'm 300-ish on the library hold list for Deathly Hallows, so maybe I'll just wait and avoid spoilers until then (An extra month or 2 from when it comes out), but seeing this is the last book, I have a feeling spoilers will be EVERYWHERE.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:57 pm
Neko, it was a great catch!!! I am always envious of your *type* who can pick out these details. I am not at all analytical while reading.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:14 pm
It's a good theory Neko but I don't think that JKR was very clear about when Harry was un-petrified. It is true that he became aware that he could move after Snape disappeared into the stairwell but it is not clear when he was actually un-petrified. Good catch though and it could be significant.
Spoiler Click below to view spoiler | As much as I would hope that Dumbledore is still alive, it doesn't look good because JKR apparently said herself that he is dead. "I see that I need to be a little more explicit .... And say that Dumbledore is definitely dead." Of course, I guess (and think likely) that it may still be possible that he will appear in some form in the seventh book and certainly in his painting. Or people may have misunderstood her. |
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Dolphinschild
Member
06-22-2006
| Monday, July 16, 2007 - 9:46 pm
If I remember, Dumbledore did appear in a painting in the his old Office with the other previous Head Masters. I could have dreamed it lol or hoped it, but I believe I read it in book 6. I am going to have to re-read book 6 if this keeps up LOL. Thanks for everyone's input and theories and comments. I have certianly enjoyed every one of them. ETA: Oh Yeah, I got my new glasses today, so I guess reading the 6th book again would be a good test run huh? (Ha ha ha ha)
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 5:41 am
"neither can live while the other survives" I take this to mean that.. a) Voldemort must kill Harry in order to regain his full strength. b) Harry must kill Voldemort in order to remove from himself the remains of V. I don't read it as they both must die.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:00 am
That's how I read it too Terolyn. And yes, Dumbledore did appear in his painting in the Headmaster's office. He was sleeping quietly.
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Lycanthrope
Member
09-19-2002
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 8:36 am
I hope you're right Terolyn. But if Harry's scar is the last Horcrux, then I don't see how he can survive...
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 11:01 am
But I don't think Harry's scar is a Horcrux. Voldemort was trying to kill Harry at that time. Not save a part of himself in him. From all I have read Voldemort somehow lost some of his power to Harry and linked himself with him, but nothing I have read makes me believe Harry is a horcrux. Dumbledore revealed to Harry the lost prophecy, for it was to him that it was first told: either Harry or Voldemort must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives. Dumbledore also reveals that due to when the boy was predicted to be born, Neville Longbottom could also have been the child in the prophecy. Dumbledore believes Voldemort chose to attack Harry because he is a half-blood like himself; Neville is a pureblood. In so doing, the Dark Lord marked Harry as his equal.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 11:30 am
The theory that Harry is a Horcrux is generally based on the idea that Harry is an accidental Horcrux. That Voldemort was trying to make something else into a Horcrux in the process of killing Harry and that with all of the spells flying around, it ended up in Harry. I'm on the fence about whether Harry is a Horcrux or not.
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Scotchbright
Member
10-05-2006
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 12:10 pm
My opinion - for what it's worth - is that Harry is NOT a horcrux. Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow to kill James, Lilly and Harry and wasn't trying to make another horcrux - but we haven't heard the full story, I'm sure. These books are so full of details that lead to so many speculations - I love it! I'm a little sad that the last book is coming out. I want this feeling of anticipation and NOT knowing to last a bit longer! I think this series will last several generations and our decendants will be never be in the situation where we are now - not knowing the ending...of who dies or lives...if evil prevails..or good. We're living history - and it's taken a book series to get that into my head...lol.
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:02 pm
I don't want anyone to die except P Pettigrew, all the deatheaters and Voldemort. I want good to triumph over evil! I want Hermione and Ron to fall madly in love and go off and live next door to the Weasly's and have lots of baby weasly's. I want Harry & Ginny to fall madly in love and go off and live next door to the Weasly's (on the other side) and have lots of baby weasly's. I want Draco to wake up and come to the light. I want Dumbledore back. I want JK to write more books - happy little larks about thier married bliss and other minor adventures. I want Harry's family to apologize to him. I want Sirius to make it back somehow. And of all the wishes I could have... I want Harry, Ron, Hermione to live and Snape to be good.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:11 pm
LOL - I like all of those Terolyn. I'll even add to your last one though. I want Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny to live and Snape to be good.
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:21 pm
oooh.. how on earth did I miss our Ginny? Thanks Jimmer oh.. and I want kreacher to fall into a running blender.

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Scotchbright
Member
10-05-2006
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:42 pm
LOL - I agree with your 'wishes'... This 'not knowing who dies in the last book phase' feels like I'm weighing who I like more - do I like Ginny more than Fred and George? Do I like Hagrid more than McGonagal? Do I like Mrs. Weasley more than Neville? I can't even begin to think that Harry, Ron or Hermione might die! I've wanted Snape to be good - but I always come back to JK.Rowlings comments similar to "You shouldn't think [Snape is] too nice. Let me just say that. It is worth keeping an eye on old Severus Snape, definitely." link
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:46 pm
Well I don't think Snape will ever be described as "nice". However, he could still end being a good guy (LOL - just not a nice good guy).
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