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Archive through July 05, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Movies & Library ARCHIVES: Movies: May 2004 - March 2005: Fahrenheit 911: Archive through July 05, 2004 users admin

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Azriel
Member

08-01-2000

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 2:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Just so people people who read this thread later don't think I used a dirty word let me rephrase. I think that through his words and works Michael Moore encourages the spread of irrational hatred.

Ketchuplover
Member

08-30-2000

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Just a reminder. If you don't vote,don't vote for me :-)

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 4:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree with Maris. Michael Moore is barely in this film. Sure, this film represents his opinion, but he's barely on screen (and isn't seen behaving badly at all, not like he did on Oscar night).

I saw the movie and I'm not getting any hatred or encouragement of hatred from the film. I haven't read Moore's books, but from the film I'm just not getting a message of hate. I found the film extremely sad and I feel like I'm constantly being manipulated by the PTB (powers that be).

Jedisan
Member

04-02-2004

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 5:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Azriel: "I think that through his words and works Michael Moore encourages the spread of irrational hatred."

Insert the name George Bush in lieu of Michael Moore, and I completely agree with you. (seems no different to me)


Jedisan
Member

04-02-2004

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
OOPS! Wrong thread
PS: I am certified "thread killer" .


Jbean
Member

01-05-2002

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 8:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
i saw this movie, errr, most of it anyway this afternoon. uhhh, i don't know really what to say. after 2 hours into the movie, i had to leave. this is the first time i have ever left a movie. i just kept thinking "this can't last too much longer" "this has to be about over", etc. i wasn't offended or anything, but it just could not hold my attention!

it was like one big anti-bush ad to me. and i am not a bush supporter by ANY means (i voted for al gore, fyi), but it was just TOO MUCH.

i live in john ashcroft's hometown (springfield, MO). so the highlight of the whole movie for me (the first 2 hours anyway) was when they were telling about how ashcroft ran for governor of MO against mel carnahan, who was tragically killed in a plane crash 2 days earlier (which was devastating to us, btw), and how we chose the "dead guy" over ashcroft. lol, well in that theater, the reaction was clapping! lol.

on a side note, the audience i was in, the majority were senior citizens. there was a woman in the row behind me who would answer outloud, and in agreement with all of the anit-bush sentiments, and she was quite loud. the guy setting beside me finally turned around and said "could you please be quiet?" ROFLMAO.

how long was this movie?

hope no one was offended, that is just my


Lkunkel
Member

10-29-2003

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The movie is only 116 minutes long. Since F9/11 was 1 hour and 56 minutes, I doubt you missed much, if you left "after 2 hours into the movie."

Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well,I have no plans to see this movie. I don't need Moore's movie to explain to me what I think.


Lkunkel
Member

10-29-2003

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hippy, I'll be honest: I haven't seen any of Moore's movies. I caught the last 10 minutes of Bowling for Columbine but had no clue what was going on. I do want to resee it.

I don't see this movie as trying to tell anyone what to think. I could be completely and totally in error, but I think he is merely trying to get people TO think.

I know he admires Greg Palast a lot--in fact most of Moore's information about the 2000 election comes from Palast. In Palast's book, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy: The Truth About Corporate Cons, Globalization, and High-Finance Fraudsters, Palast relates the following:

quote:

The question remains, why were these stories [which include the Clinton/Gore White House, the current Bush/Cheney debacle, Jeb Bush, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organization, Tony Blair and many other all too familiar names] (and their author) exiled to Europe? Where are you, America? Don't you want to know how your president was elected? How the IMF spends your money?

Mike Isikoff, a Newsweek reporter, suggested n answer. A couple of years ago, he passed me some truly disturbing information on President Clinton, not the usual intern-under-the-desk stuff. I said, "Mike, why don't you print this? And he said, "Because no one gives a s--t."

But if you're one of the few who do, here's your book. (Pg. 9--all emphasis is his, bracketed comments are mine.)


Honestly, I have to agree with him. I watch our local "news" and read our local "news"paper, and I then end up going to about 30 news sites to find out what is going on in the world. Our papers, despite the freedom of the press guarantee, are too afraid to actually print stories of controversy--and that includes The New York Times and The Washington Post. As for the local news talking heads, 99% do not have a clue how to dig into things. I say this after working for a month at one of our local stations. There is no time given for digging--if there's a question about something the governor's office is doing, you weren't allowed to check with ANY source other than the governor's office. So it went a lot like this: "Hi, I'm calling to fact check some information I received about the governor brokering a deal to raise the state sales tax to cover a deficit in the homeland security budget...oh, it isn't true? Okay, thank you very much." Yet, it was, and was announced the following week.

Most people don't want to think. If Moore's movie can get people to rub to brain synapses together, more power to him.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 5:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Lol, Lkunkel. I guess it just seemed like two hours. I can see if someone is not interested in the subject matter how they might become bored with the issues being discussed.

At least the movie is getting people who normally would not focus on the issues to think about them, even if it is only for 115 minutes.

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 7:32 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It shocks me how some people can judge what they have not seen. My conservative republican best friend who hates michael moore actually said she would go with me because she does not want to speak of what she does not know. That is why I am her best friend. Open-mindedness is a good virtue.

Some see Michael Moore as such a villain but i see him as a true patriot, someone willing to put his neck on the line to tell a tale he believes in. He knows how great this country is and he gets upset when someone we entrusted with its future is abusing it. Patriotism comes in all shapes and sizes. We don't have to blindly follow our leaders to love this country.

Michael Moore does not lead a "hollywood" lifestyle. I think he is a very down to earth man who feels compelled to tell the stories that may go unnoticed by the typical media. BTW, I did see the egg throwing incident on a couple programs when it happened.

I don't think Moore is on a Bush witch hunt. He does not consider himself a democrat. He once worked for Ralph Nader. He had very choice words against Clinton in his book. He said Bush has made him turn his lens to him these past couple years and if Kerry wins, he'll be watching him just as closely. I don't think Moore has a particular political agenda. If ANYONE did the things Bush and his cohorts have done, I firmly believe Michael Moore would have made the same film.





Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 2:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Just want to add one thing about a comment I made about my mom. I don't think she has swung to the right because she won't see Moore's movie. She HAS swung to the right and she'll be the first to tell you so.

To make this post on topic, I'm planning on seeing the movie again tomorrow with friends. Plan to pay attention to things I may have missed during my first viewing. (I was in one of the first, neck-craning rows. LOL!)

Jbean
Member

01-05-2002

Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 9:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
well, if the movie is only 116 minutes long, then, it is my fault i didnt factor in preview and other misc. time before the film. i know i was there for 2 hours. it "started" at 4:30 pm, and i walked out of the theater at 6:30 pm. i had/have an open mind. and i am not saying that moore doesn't have valid points, it was just too long of that type of film for my attention span. sorry if that is offensive.

Azriel
Member

08-01-2000

Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 7:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It shocks me how some people can judge what they have not seen. My conservative republican best friend who hates michael moore actually said she would go with me because she does not want to speak of what she does not know. That is why I am her best friend. Open-mindedness is a good virtue.

I think the statement saying people are judging what they have not seen is an ironic thing to say considering the contents of this movie.

The movie itself is made up of excerpts from speeches, documents, news footage, etc. Following your logic, if you don't go and find and read/view each one of the sources that these excerpts were taken from, in its entirety, then even you, who have seen the movie, cannot form an opinion about what the movie said.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 7:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Okay, I saw it the other day and finally gelled a thought. It seemed kind of like an overly long animated Doonesbury comic strip with a really excellent actor playing the comic parts.

Jbean, I saw it with a party of four, and every one of us confessed we almost fell asleep in parts of it. I looked at my watch a couple times (not knowing how long the movie was supposed to be) thinking surely it had lasted three hours.

I could not recommend that any staunch Bush supporter view the film, because all they would see would be the cheap shots, and there were a few of those.

I love Doonesbury.

Jbean
Member

01-05-2002

Friday, July 02, 2004 - 11:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
thanks juju, for helping me not to look as stupid for going on about how long the movie was. i got pretty sleepy through parts, too.

lol at doonesbury!


Rupertbear
Member

09-19-2003

Friday, July 02, 2004 - 11:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    


Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 5:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Excellent!!!! Bravo Moore!!!

Even though the movie ended with a laugh, listening to Bush's words, it left a feeling of incredulity, I kept asking myself, how did we let this happen? Sure, we protested, I remember very well the mess in the Florida elections, and I remember very well the rallies all over the world to protest the war, and at that time we didn't even know it was all a lie, we were just against the war, believing in a diplomatic solution. Well, at least many like me were.
But it did happen, like Moore said, it was not all a dream.
I guess all that has happened since Bush's election could have been prevented if those in power were more honest but how can one win when those at the top pull all the strings any which way they like?
Even France, Germany and Russia all they could do was abstain from joining the coalition, they really didn't dare stop Bush from invading Iraq. Now, imagine if Bush's agenda was not only Iraq but much more, who's going to stop him? He knew no one could stop him from doing what he wanted to do since day one of his election (beside going on vacation). Maybe prior to WW2 the world would have acted differently and unfortunately too ready to do war just because of a conflict of interest. But nowadays, France, Germany and Russia looked like puppies against a huge power that disregarded the UN resolutions and couldn't wait to drop bombs.
It's a movie for those with short memory (even I tend to forget so much, or maybe I find it convenient to forget, because it doesn't touch me directly) but for once I'm glad to be a Canadian.

Theowl
Member

09-28-2000

Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 5:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I want to see this so bad, but with my vision, it's not possible in a theater, so I'll wait for the video. But I was wondering if the worst thing (IMO) Bush ever said was in the movie. It's when he said "Bring it on!!". I have TIVO, and when he said that, I had to rerun it a dozon times to see if he REALLY said that. It was only shown once or twice on TV, probably because no one else could beleve he really said it, and the damage it could (and DID) do.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 6:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
One thing I have to add that Moore was very careful in not involving other nations in the movie, like I mentioned, France, Germany and Russia, those are my own comments and were not in any way included in the movie. He only mentioned some of the countries in the coalition of the "willing" and one fault I could see that he mentioned only the most inconsequential countries, did not mention Italy or Spain. Actually I would have liked him to mention them but also telling how the majority of Italians and Spanish were against their own leaders on the issue of sending troops to Iraq and this goes for the Australians as well. He avoided this altogether and I guess in a way it's better, it was really a movie for the American people, it was Moore pointing out facts to Americans who may not know all that he's telling.
To me not much was new, but it sure was a good reminder. From my standpoint I would have said more.. but the movie was powerful enough without adding more fuel. One thing is for sure, soon there will be a DVD of this movie and I'll be the first one to buy it. Hopefully, in 20 years time my grandchildren could learn what the history books may not tell.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 6:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Yes, Theowl, that's what he said. Your hearing is better than what you think.

I still can't believe that after all the things that could have prevented Moore from not only making this movie but releasing it to the public we will have a DVD...and who knows, maybe a tv channel will air it one day. (They still won't air the Gibson's movie...but heck, who cares when you have the DVD)

Moondance
Member

07-30-2000

Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 6:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The DVD is set to be released in September:-)

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 9:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
TheOwl, yes, Bush speaking that line was in the movie.

Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Monday, July 05, 2004 - 12:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I saw it opening day and was very impressed. After hearing I would be subjected to nothing but lies I found very few instances could be questioned.

I have never been in a theater that was sold out at 11:00 am nor have I seen a movie that received a standing ovation. I have yet to see a movie that consumed me on so many emotional levels. I laughed, cried and to be honest was angry at things that I was unaware of due to media bias.

If you are a staunch Bush supporter I'd say you need to skip this movie, but if you are on the fence it may help you get some truths that have been kept from us. Moore didn't just make up this stuff. He may have edited some parts of the movie to make his anti-Bush points, however Mr. Bush and others in his company don't need Mr. Moore's help in many, many instances to make themselves look bad. One reporter said that the link between Bush Sr. and the Carlyle group is a big lie because he was no longer on the Carlyle board at the time the movie states he is. He then reported that Mr. Bush Sr. made trips abroad to promote the Carlyle group as a favor and received money from the group for doing them this favor. Does this not make him an employee? Anyone can spin the truth to benefit themselves but we are owed the chance to see and hear both sides to make up our own minds.

In reading most of the reviews of this film you get positive and negative reports depending on your affiliation, but there can't be a denial of facts.

Schoolmarm
Member

02-18-2001

Monday, July 05, 2004 - 7:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
This was a very interesting movie, and people applauded at the end.

I'm amazed that it even played in my very small conservative Republican town, but due to a very vocal university alum, the theatre booked it.

My friend went before and there were only 7 in the theatre, today there were about 40 or 50 for a 4:15 matinee.

I'm wondering where he got all of his footage. This certainly makes you think!

I'm glad I saw it.