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Archive through December 19, 2008

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jan ~ Apr 2009: All Things Technical: The Help Desk: Digital Camera/Photography Help (ARCHIVES): Archive through December 19, 2008 users admin

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Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 9:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
LOL - It depends on who was moving – you or Abby or both. If you were moving then a tripod would make a difference. However, the only thing that absolutely guarantees no blur from movement is a higher shutter speed or the short duration of the flash (for flash pictures).

Normally the incredibly short flash duration will freeze movement on indoor pictures, even with a relatively slow flash shutter speed of 1/60 of a second (which is the norm for flash photography). However, if you have some ambient (existing) light in the room, you can get movement or ghosting, as the flash does not need to be strong enough to over power the existing light.

A higher ISO allows you to increase the shutter speed. However, I'm not sure if the G6 will allow you to increase the shutter speed when using flash. If it doesn't, then a higher ISO might just cause the G6 to reduce the flash output, which won't help at all.

You might want to see if the G6 allows you to adjust shutter speed when using flash. You can definitely do this with an SLR and many pros generally use a different shutter speed depending on the conditions and the effect that they want to achieve. Using a slower speed to let in more ambient light is called dragging the shutter. Are you sure your flash even went off?

Also, as Juju suggested the "Kids and Pets" setting if you have one might work better in this situation. The problem is though that these programs are always just guessing what you want to do.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 9:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
<-- me

I just re-read your post. You had the flash turned off. Then the kids and pets setting would definitely help, along with a higher ISO.

It is practically impossible to get good flash pictures with an on camera flash on a point and shoot.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 2:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Looks like hand shake to me, no?

Also, if you were using any amount of zoom, the hand shake is more likely to affect photos.

Kookliebird
Member

08-04-2005

Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 3:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kookliebird a private message Print Post    
I agree, it looks like hand shake. I also find that the more zoom I use, the more I am likely to have blurred pictures from handshake.

The light there looks pretty good. The color in the photos appear to be very natural. I would move the ISO up to at least 400 to eliminate the hand shakes.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
The G6 does not have a kids/pet setting. So besides a tripod, what manual setting would have done the trick? (here is a shot of what I have to work with)


And on another separate note, is this deal too good to be true???

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/SLR1196.htm?bct=t1134

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 11:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
JB - if you are going to go manual and use zoom with no tripod, in order to eliminate handshake, you will HAVE to have a fast shutterspeed. So as a result, you will need to go to a higher ISO, and a wider aperture than you would normally use. I can't tell you exact numbers, because every situation is different.

If the camera has it, you could go shutter priority, put in on a 1/80 or less (1/100, 1/125) shutter speed, then let the camera choose the rest of the settings.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 12:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Tv is shutter priority, right? I'll try that to start... And get a tripod. Or hope my dh thinks that above ritz link is a great deal!!!

Kookliebird
Member

08-04-2005

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kookliebird a private message Print Post    
JB- I agree with Eeyore, but using a shutter priority would cause the aperature to go down. If you are focusing on a single person, it would be fine. If you want to focus on a group, you may run into some focusing issues. So, in addition to Eeyore's statement, I would also boost the ISO to 400, 600 or 800. I would try 400, see how it worked and moved up to 600 or 800 if that is better. If there's good light inside the room, 400 ISO will probably work the best. If you start getting warmer (ie yellow tint), then look to see if there's tungsten setting on the camera that can be selected. The Tungsten setting will bring the coloring back to a more natural state.

Oh and that looks like a decent price for the Canon to me. Check other places on the internet to make sure, although I'm sure that you already have done that.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Thanks Kooklie and EE!! I appreciate the input!!

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
JB - if there's anything I've learned from having my DSLR for 2 years now....it's that the DSLR doesn't take better pictures, if you don't have the basic concepts down pat inside of you. Add to that, that the dSLR has SO MANY MORE settings and little picky things that make it a thousand times more frustrating than a point and shoot.

For example, while the dSLR takes a crisper picture, I still have trouble with it at parties, because it is VERY snobby about what it considers a "focused" shot, so it just won't take the picture. Do you know how hard it is to have a moment all set up, only for the camera to REFUSE to click?

I have a P&S camera that has some manual controls. For really spontaneous events, where shots aren't set up and patient enough to wait for you to figure out your camera, I just go with my P&S now. Even on auto, my dSLR is a biotch to fiddle with at fast-paced events.

After taking 3 good solid photo classes, I still am not comfortable with my dSLR in party/people type settings, because of the focus and "why won't it click" stuff. I've tried turning off auto-focus, I've tried turning it to COMPLETE auto, I've tried all kinds of things....yet it will always frustrate me when I take it to a party.

If you add to that a zoom lens, you are GUARANTEED to need a tripod. Trust me, I've learned that the hard way too. You think it's great that you havea 200mm lens, but then when you have it at 200mm, then you need AT LEASE 1/200 for a shutter speed (and with the 1.5 crop factor, you really need 1/300) in order to eliminate hand shake. So when you get into those types of shutter speed, you either NEED a flash, or you need a lens that opens to 1.4. The flash will be another 500 buck, and everything you learn will be that you should have your flash OFF camera....and so on and so on.

Basically what I'm saying is that you have everything you need on the G6, but you need to learn how to use it properly, before you can go purchase a DSLR and think it will take better pictures on its own.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Lots of good advice!

I agree with pretty much everything you said Eeyore except I'm pretty surprised that you have trouble getting it to focus at parties.

There is definitely a learning curve to using an SLR. Once you do learn it, however, you'll find a P & S handy but frustrating. I can't say enough times that the camera doesn't take the picture. The photographer makes the picture. Buying an SLR won't make someone a better photographer.

All of that said, I think Julie is the type of person who will work hard at it and come up with great results.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 2:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Yeah I don't understand either. There is low light, so I have the "focus helper" light on, that fires that little preliminary light so the camera can find "points of contrast" (which I understand are needed for it to focus). But for some reason, it will do the zoom in/zoom out thing, and not take a picture. I'm good at reading the manual, so I just don't know what it is. The hard thing is, that most people I know shoot Canon, so nobody can really offer me advice. :-/

I don't mean to burst a bubble for JB, but I just wanted to warn her that just buying a DSLR isn't a solution to one or two bad photos with the P&S. I think I've worked pretty hard at learning about photographic principles, and even though I can get the ISO, shutter speed, aperture and composition right, there are ten more things that the camera wants from me before it takes the picture, and it can be frustrating. Especially at spontaneous events, where those "shots" you want just aren't going to happen again, or wait for you to figure out why your camera isn't cooperating with the moment.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 2:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Yep. Shooting with an SLR is a whole different story and a lot of people who switch to an SLR from a P & S get pretty frustrated with their initial results. Of course, you can always stick the thing in auto mode but that doesn't work that well on an SLR (IMO).

I'm mystified that you are having trouble focussing. LOL – That's not fair. Only Canon owners are allowed to whine about poor focus.

Seriously, better focusing is one of the reasons for using an SLR. Are you using an external flash (I mean a flash on the hot shoe)? The Canon flashes have focus assist in them as well (they create a red pattern) so that the camera can focus better.

Kookliebird
Member

08-04-2005

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 3:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kookliebird a private message Print Post    
The G9 is a pretty sophisticated P&S camera. I know a number of people who have it and can do amazing things with it. Personally, I would probably work that G9 to death before moving to a DSLR. I am with Jimmer, the photographer makes the photo, not the camera.

Oh and I too have a Canon and absolutely hate the focusing on it. But, I think it's a digital thing, not a Canon thing.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 3:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
No, I can't afford a flash yet. I want to either get the SB-800 or the new SB-900. The SB-800 has been discontinued, but it's smaller than the 900, has almost all of the same functions (host/slave/etc.). Most of the reviews I'm seeing are saying if money is an issue, the SB800 is easily a good substitute for the 900, and will be even cheaper with sales and the desire to get rid of discontinued stock.

I spent money on a new carbon fiber and ball head tripod combo which was 500, a nifty fifty for about 200, and then the big kahuuna - the 18-200VR which was 800. So....I'm tapped out for camera spending right now.

I am hemming and hawing over whether my next purchase will be a 20mm wide angle (better suited to parties, as you have to back up to get people in a 50mm shot), or I might go for a flash. But...I just bought Mike a 25.5inch Samsung computer monitor, and I have tuition for next semester to pay, and just got over about 3500 in dental bills....AND I want to go away on a cheapo vacation in January. So....the flash will have to wait.

I'm also contemplating TRYING to find the money for a "Practical Lighting" class, before bothering buying lighting/flash gear. But I don't know if I have the 450 to spend on it.



Moral of the story: Photography is VERY expensive, and it still manages to be frustrating! LOL

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 7:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Julie, Kookliebird is right that you have a pretty sophisticated P & S there already. The absolute best thing that you could do to improve that picture and other indoor pictures is buy an external flash for it and put it on the hotshoe. Make sure that it is one that has a swivel head and bounce the flash off of the ceiling or a nearby wall. It's a nuisance to carry around and get out and attach but you will be amazed at the difference in the quality of your photography.

You're right Eeyore that photography is expensive. I forget what I paid for my flash bracket but it was ridiculous. The thing is that at least you can use that tripod forever and the lens for a good long time.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, I think you hit what I was trying to say earlier. JB's camera is pretty dern close to being an SLR already. I think it's just better to truly learn to use the manual features and all of the photography principles with THAT camera, rather than buying a different camera. Basically, if you have camera shake problems and don't use a flash on the G6 or G9 or whatever, you're STILL going to have those camera shake problems when using no flash on an SLR, only you'll be out a lot more money.

The camera JB has, has all you need to you-yourself become a good photographer. Once your pictures are good with THAT camera, then you'll probably have great pics with an SLR.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 4:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Wait a second. I thought a dSLR was the answer to no lag time when pressing the shutter. When you pushed the button, the camera took the picture that instant. The only thing I really missed from old fashioned 110film cameras. OR was that just it--FILM?? Is that the diff?? When I had my old minolta SLR (we're talking 1988 here) when I pushed the button, it took a picture. So are you saying that is not true with dSLRs?

BTW, I have the G6, not G9.

And yes, until I get the basics down of being able to figure out what settings to use with Tv and Av, etc. I really don't want to get the rebel.

HOWEVER, that deal seems too good too pass up. That includes 2 lenses--the 2 that I would want!!

Canon EOS Rebel XS Digital SLR Camera 2-Lens Outfit w/ EF-S 18-55mm IS & 75-300mm Lenses for $599 no tax/free shipping.

(OT I am weirded out right now hearing thunder/seeing lightning while it is snowing. In all my years I have never seen a "ThunderSnow!")

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 4:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Oh, thanks for all the input!! You are all very helpful--Jimmer, Ee and kooklie!!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 7:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Yes dSLRs focus much much faster than P & S's. Virtually no lag time.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 7:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Julieboo, I don't know about that camera price, but I think Ritz is probably a reliable seller.

There is lots of talk on the internet these days about NOT buying from small New York camera shops. "They" say there is lots of shady dealing going on, and you rarely get what you think you are buying.

Just make sure if you are going to buy an expensive camera online that you google first to see if people are having any problems with the seller.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 7:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Very good advice. Some of those small shops are terrible. In fact, they look like dumps (if you were to actually see a picture of them). The way they get you is they offer really cheap prices on cameras (some of them without U.S. warranties) and then charge a bundle for accessories (many of which should have been included anyway). And good luck trying to cancel an order with them or trying to fix it if they send you something you don't want.

None of the above applies to Ritz by the way, who I think is probably okay.

Kookliebird
Member

08-04-2005

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 8:59 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kookliebird a private message Print Post    
If you want to compare the price at a couple of places, I've bought from KEH, B&H and Camera World without any issues for many years.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Eeyore (or anyone) I am confused (big suprise!!) Why is EE having issues like lag time with a dSLR??

Here is part of her post that I am referring to:


I still have trouble with it at parties, because it is VERY snobby about what it considers a "focused" shot, so it just won't take the picture. Do you know how hard it is to have a moment all set up, only for the camera to REFUSE to click?

Thanks for any insight!! Oh, here is more of that same post of hers where she explains what she has tried:

I have a P&S camera that has some manual controls. For really spontaneous events, where shots aren't set up and patient enough to wait for you to figure out your camera, I just go with my P&S now. Even on auto, my dSLR is a biotch to fiddle with at fast-paced events.

After taking 3 good solid photo classes, I still am not comfortable with my dSLR in party/people type settings, because of the focus and "why won't it click" stuff. I've tried turning off auto-focus, I've tried turning it to COMPLETE auto, I've tried all kinds of things....yet it will always frustrate me when I take it to a party.


Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Friday, December 19, 2008 - 12:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Focusing takes LONGER for me with my SLR, especially in low-light conditions. Focusing has NOTHING to do with shutter-lag JB.

In MY opinion, I don't think that you'll get much better in the shutter lag department in an SLR. Sure it's instant in an SLR, but there can't be THAT MUCH lag in the P&S. I personally don't have any issues with shutter lag in my P&S. Or maybe I've gotten used to it, and I'm not taking pictures where 3 milliseconds makes a difference.

As for the FOCUSING that I was talking about, I think my dSLR is way slower. The dSLR looks for "edges" or points of contrast, in order to find focus, and you can feel/see through the viewfinder that the lens focuses as far forward then as far back as possible, then settles on a focus point (when on auto focus). But many times, I find it will focus far then close, then settle on nothing and refuse to snap a pic. I have also found in low light, it will also refuse to take the picture.

I haven't figured out why yet. I've tried having the focus finder light on, focus finder light off, I've tried auto focus with both, and manual focus with both. I've tried fully automatic snapshot mode, and I've tried fully manual mode. I just don't get why sometimes, it just doesn't want to take a shot. I KNOW though, that it is in lower light party type evening situations. But even still, you'd think it would be a bit more cooperative. I'm not sure if it's just that in party situations there is too much movement, that the focus part of it is being confused, so it just refuses to take the shot.


This is where you will find a lag. Plain and simple, if the camera isn't finding focus, it just won't take the shot. So, where your P&S is taking 3 milliseconds longer than you'd like, AT LEAST it's getting the shot. I've lost a lot of shots at parties, because the SLR just won't TAKE the shot.