Author |
Message |
Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 3:51 pm
Beckie I have 3 dogs right now and 2 kids and work 10 hours away from the house every day. 2 of them are rescues, and when I say rescues, I mean I found my brown dog dumped on the side of the road, and I rescued him from being hit on the highway because whoever owned him first didn't even have the courtesy to take him to a shelter where he had that 10% chance. Had I not happened by in my 8 month pregnant state of emotional woes and cried when I saw him and his buddy sitting there he'd have been hit for sure. I took him home, hoping to find his owners, and that never panned out. Then I decided that he was worth his weight in gold when he saved my life a few weeks later (still huge pregnant) when a drifter happened by our country home and insisted I let him come in to use the phone. Brown dog nearly came through the plate glass window to protect me, teeth bared, ready to kill. He's never shown aggression any other time since then, so I know that guy was up to no good, knew I was home alone, and didn't know I had gotten a dog. And yes, he tears up my yard, yes he barks, yes he's a pain in the patootie sometimes, but I Love him and I know we were meant to be together. The other dog that was with him when I found him was placed with my sister's then boyfriend. yes, he still has him. THe dog I have that is a purebred is an awesome dog. A service dog and I let all 3 of them sleep in my room at night. Shame on people who dump animals at a shelter because they shirk their responsibilities. NOW, if someoen came a long and said "i need a dog to be with me every day, go running with, etc, sleep on my bed, top of the line dog food, lots of fun and play and they were legit......I'd let him go, but I sure wouldn't give a dog to someone without checking out where they were going to live. My other dog I got from out front of Sams Club. A shopping basket full of queensland puppies, and I was pregnant then too. Scooped up one and took her home. I wonder what happened to her brothers and sisters because someone didn't want to spay/neuter their dogs. BTW all my dogs are spayed/neutered, so are my cats. As soon as I got brown dog I neutered him. As soon as Dusty was old enough I spayed her. I don't understand people who don't.
|
Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 5:12 pm
I can appreciate the sentiment but I am more than a bit upset. We have had to euthanize two pets: One a beautiful mutt, 16 yrs old and in chronic pain, the other the sweetest little 8 mnth old kitten who had a congenital disease with no known treatment. I was the one in the room both times and it was a very non-traumatic, peaceful experience. The animals reacted (or not reacted) the same as they do with any vaccination and then they quickly and quietly drifted off to sleep and after being cuddled for a few more minutes the breathing stopped and it was over. I have seen over and over again well-intentioned pet owners let their animals live in pain long beyond the point they should have. I would hate to see a letter like the one above help to encourage that behavior, although I know that was not the intention. If the letter is authentic then I would suggest the author get himself some better instruction and improved technique because no animal should die in pain and fear.
|
Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 5:54 pm
OMG, Froot, who are these people. You are allowed to have a much as you want and as much as you can afford. In fact most people have more than they can afford so you sound ahead of the game to me. It is amazing to me that a mover, who you are paying, would say a word! But I can't even imagine what the heck your friends are thinking by saying things like that to you, I swear I would just Slap them Bald-headed! Funny but I used to try and make sure I worked at Christmas when I knew that my co-workers had little kids, but I don't do that anymore, I like having all those days off in a row.
|
Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 6:47 pm
Beckie, that is why I wish there were a moratorium or something on breeders. (And pet store should not be allowed to sell pets at all.) I don't think people should BUY a dog from a store OR a breeder. Not because the breeders are doing anything wrong. I assume the majority of breeders take great pride in what they do and many may screen their buyers. But that only takes away people from getting an animal from a shelter or rescue. There are far too many good animals being put to sleep every day. And many breeders do it JUST for the money -- or even partly for the money. I know of many so called breeders who produce one litter every single year just to make a quick few thousand bucks.
|
Frootjuuce
Member
02-25-2007
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 7:07 pm
You guys are awesome and just what I needed. I will remember all of your sayings and use them when necessary. I have wonderful friends, but some of them just don't always think before they speak. I know this logically, but it hurts my heart sometimes. The movers were another story altogether. That guy made me mad! And I did give them a less than stellar review... Sugar, I used to work holidays for my co-workers as well. But then I realized that I am my own family and I have a right to that time off, too.
|
Mak1
Member
08-12-2002
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 7:30 pm
Froot, this quote infuriates me: "I was told by someone once that my role as a single person was to be of service to married people." Ohmyheck...Seriously? Someone had the audacity to make an ignorant statement like that? I can't say for sure, but I don't think God would agree with that. Even if one doesn't believe in God, that statement is just so insulting and demeaning. I suspect some of your friends have issues that have nothing at all to do with how much stuff you have. Why does anyone think their unsolicited advice is wanted by anyone else anyway? I wonder if it would put a stop to it if you said to your friends "When you say things like that, it hurts my feelings." (or whatever emotion you feel at the time) A true friend would care enough to stop it! I wish you much happiness in your new place. You just keep right on enjoying your life and every single thing you have.
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 7:54 pm
I think it is very nice when people adopt shelter dogs. However, I also know many nice people who have dogs that didn't come from a shelter (some probably are Members on this board) and I don't think they should feel guilty for not getting a dog from a shelter. 
|
Frootjuuce
Member
02-25-2007
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 7:58 pm
I know, Mak - and that was a direct quote. I have never forgotten it. I don't live by it (anymore), but it's still a little shocking that someone would think like that in this day and age. And you're right, some of my friends have issues that have nothing to do with how much stuff I have. I was the "doormat" friend until about ten years ago. Many of my relationships did not last through my changes. A couple still hang in there and try to "put me in my place" from time to time, though. I'm probably the most emotionally healthy I have ever been in my entire life right now...which allowed me to vent to you all rather than working through it on my own. I also agree with you about God not agreeing with that statement. I think I do know my worth in God's eyes in spite of what people do and say. I always let God know how I feel - LOL - but decided to share it with TVCH this time, too. And I do love my life...and my new place! I usually feel pretty fulfilled wherever I am, but I am especially happy in this new area. Not only does it meet my needs (and more!), I love the adventure of living in a new state.
|
Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 8:22 pm
Thanks for saying that, Jimmer. I had to physically leave the computer for awhile after reading that. Shelter girl never had to deal with a single dog from one of my (few) litters. We never made much, "quick" or "slow" on our litters because we put so much money, time, training and love into our labs, and we went to great lengths to attract/find great owners who were well-prepared (or we helped to prepare them) Different breeds were created for different purposes and if you want a dog to do certain activities with you, you'd like to be able to predict that they will be suited for that activitie (as well as suited to your family, and your family a good fit for the dog as well.) A good breeder carefully selects the stud dog, researches like crazy, provides vet care, takes the time to train their dog, innoculate, evaluate, socialize, train puppies and put the right pup with the right people, who are also screened and trained if need be, and then you spend time answering questions and if there is some problem you have it in the contract that you take the dog BACK. Our lab club had a code of ethics that included doing all the checks for genetic problems (and we sponsored clinics so that owners and breeders could more easily get eye checks done), we sponsored training for show, obedience, hunting/field, we had a scent hurdle team and a team that went to Top Dog (obedience), we constantly educated. Code of ethics also included not selling litter lots, and not selling to pet stores (and this was back in the seventies. The Lab rescue for Southern California was formed by people who were also breeders and members of the lab club. Responsible breeders are the visible ones and take lots of flak for the rresponsible "breeders" and the horrible puppy mills, and the people who want to have "a litter for the kids". ICK. ========= I hope no one confuses the description of a dog being put down by strangers at a shelter with the euthanizing of a much loved companion when the time has come, with hopefully the loving presence of the dog or cat's best friend. It is very very difficult. I've had to be there four times, now, and it never gets any easier, but I know in my heart that it was the best thing in each case. OK.. I need to go hug my 20 + year old cat, adopted from a shelter and just perfect. ========= Oh but first, Froot! I also hope you enjoy every square foot of your place Unsolicited comments can just be infuriating when they are so judgemental.
|
Sajo
Member
06-18-2007
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 8:41 pm
thank you, Jimmer for your last post April 23, 2009 - 7:54 pm The person we bought Kitty Sajo, was very careful who she sold too. We also wanted a baby kitten and certain breed.
|
Serate
Member
08-21-2001
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 8:57 pm
I think it is very nice when people adopt shelter dogs. However, I also know many nice people who have dogs that didn't come from a shelter (some probably are Members on this board) and I don't think they should feel guilty for not getting a dog from a shelter. Thank you for this post Jimmer.
|
Couchtomato
Member
09-09-2008
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 9:08 pm
And.....let's not forget that there are also no-kill shelters and lots of loving folks out there (and here) that foster pets until just the right home can be found for them.
|
Beckie03
Member
07-05-2007
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 9:47 pm
I think it is very nice when people adopt shelter dogs. However, I also know many nice people who have dogs that didn't come from a shelter (some probably are Members on this board) and I don't think they should feel guilty for not getting a dog from a shelter. i'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty and i'm sorry if i did. i just personally can't ever see myself buying another breed dog. there are plenty of rescue who have pure bred animals (like my rescue) and i figure if i wanted a pure bred, i'll buy from there. i don't condone anyone who buys from a breeder...that's your choice. it just sucks to see so many animals go in and 72 hours later they're dead...pure bred or mutt. just very sad. again, sorry if i made anyone feel bad. that wasn't my intention.
|
Beckie03
Member
07-05-2007
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 9:58 pm
escapee, your story made me tear up. that's so great about your animals. so glad you made a difference in those doggies' lives. you'll never find a greater love than the love of an animal. ========= rissa, i agree. we've had to put down animals (with cancer) and it was harder than the hell. and i hope the letter doesn't make people think that about putting down animals. ========= war, i do believe there are responsible breeders. i got my beautiful golden who i wouldn't trade for anything from a breeder. i think the biggest problem is is that no one can tell who is a responsible breeder and who isn't...and so everyone is lumped together. i truly appreciate responsible breeders and i hope there comes a time where shelters aren't needed and neither are rescues. of course, that's a perfect world and that isn't possible.
|
Serate
Member
08-21-2001
| Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 10:11 pm
I don't feel guilty for getting Jack from a breeder. Your post didn't make me feel guilty. Jimmer's post just made for getting Jack from a breeder. I'm not dissing shelter and rescue dogs. We looked over a span of 3 1/2 years in 3 states. We were leaning towards a Shih Tzu, or Shih Tzu mix, but the one thing we had to have was a dog that would travel well with us. And one that in the future, if it had problems, I could help lift it in and out of the car. And with all the traveling we do, smaller dogs are more accepted in hotels. What I AM dissing is some of the "standards" the shelters and rescue organazitions have. I'm NOT going to let them know how many times a day I go to the bathroom!!!! OK so it's not THAT bad, but one place wanted to run a credit check on us. Another wanted us to sign a paper stating that they could drop in any time in the life of the dog, and if they didn't like the way he was living, they could take him. We found a sweet, blind in one eye Beagle that we fell in love with when we were in Kentucky. The shelter wanted 3 non family references from people who had known us for at least 5 years. Not a problem. Until they REFUSED any from Iowa, which we were from, and stated that they needed references from people w/i 60 miles of Louisville. We had only lived in Louisville 2 years. So this poor sweet half blind beagle didn't get a home. When we moved back to Iowa we just didn't find anything that fit our family that wasn't from a place that asked for information we weren't comfortable giving out. I don't believe in saying "I want such and such dog." It's gotta feel right. When we got Jack, we weren't even looking. I just wanted to hold him cuz I love puppies. But in my arms, he just fit, and that feeling was there. I really don't think that Jack's breeders made much more than $50 a pup, but even if they made more, so what? We got Jack way too young, 7 weeks, but that's about the only thing I can say was bad about the breeders, but the wife was looking at unexpected surgery and they were trying to find homes so she could schedule her surgery. Usually they didn't adopt out until 10 - 12 weeks. Jack had already had shots and was dewormed. He was eating premium puppy food, which they gave me a 10lb bag. [that's alot for something that weighs 2lbs.] They had paperwork for all the vet care the momma dog was given while pregnant. All in all, I'm glad we got Jack from who we did. He's a perfect fit. I understand the need for shelters and rescues, and even breeders, to check the people they are handing the dogs over. But there are some questions that do not need to be asked. And there are some clauses that are just wrong. It's their choice to ask these questions. Is our choice to say sorry we'll go elsewhere.
|
Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 6:06 am
However, I also know many nice people who have dogs that didn't come from a shelter (some probably are Members on this board) and I don't think they should feel guilty for not getting a dog from a shelter. My intent is not to make anyone feel guilty. Not at all. I apologize if I wrote anything to make anyone feel that way. My intent is to convey my wish. Bottom line is to get more shelter dogs out there adopted. TO get almost all animals spayed and neutered. To get ALL pet owners to be more responsible and not drop pets off at the shelter that pee in the house or that chew on their couch. I am not saying that breeders are bad (though some are--but that is like with any line of work.) Breeders I am sure love their dogs and many take exceeding good care of them and make sure that their pups get put into loving homes (I said that above.) That, however is not my point. My point is that if there were ,say a 3 year moratorium, (and yes I realize that would NEVER actually happen) on breeders breeding, that would result in more people getting shelter dogs out of the shelter. And while were are on this fantasy, that same timeframe would have a law that 95% of animals must be sterilized. Just get the homeless animal population down to a manageable size. Then the breeders could go back to business. Bottom line is that there are too many animals in this world. And many suffer from it. Please do not get all offended if you did get a dog or cat from a breeder, I do hope you take a second to process my message and don't jump the gun and get offended. Sea, Serate and others, I hope you know me well enough to understand my position. ANd that I would not want you to feel badly in the least.
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 6:41 am
I don't think people should BUY a dog from a store OR a breeder. I think your position is very clear, Julie. I disagree with it. I wouldn't personally buy a dog from a pet store. However, there are many breeders who absolutely love their dogs, they ensure that they have as safe and successful pregnancies as possible and they do their best to ensure that the puppies are well raised and go to good, safe and happy homes. I simply can not look at that as a bad thing that should be stopped.
|
Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 6:55 am
I just read this thread back a couple of days. First time I have stopped here. That letter from the shelter broke my heart. I just watched "Bolt" the other night. When "Mittens" finally tells the truth about what happened to her and how she didn't understand, I had all to do to keep from crying. The first thing I thought of was when Marm told us about buying a house that came with a cat. I don't have any strong opinions against breeding if it is done responsibily. And I don't think the problem of shelter animals will be solved by eliminating breeding. Instead, I believe animals are sensient beings and there should be better laws to protect their welfare and well being. I realize that is a tall order since we can hardly control the care of children. But as long as animals are considered disposable when a nuisance in the eyes of many people, there will be shelters and euthanasia.
|
Babyruth
Member
07-19-2001
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 7:01 am
I would agree that pet stores should not sell cats and dogs. The primary suppliers to these stores are puppy mills and irresponsible backyard breeders who know little and care even less about the health of the litters, focusing just on the money they can make.
|
Serate
Member
08-21-2001
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 7:04 am
Julie you and I have talked about this before, you know my point of view, and I know your point of view. I did not feel bad about your post. I didn't feel bad about Beckie's post. I just know things aren't as black and white as the email from craigslist that was posted. And FWIW, that is NOT the original email that came out; alot has been added to it to make it more graphic. I'm not saying the email is true or false just saying that it's been around for awhile and there are so many versions, and the one posted above is not the original one. As far as the shelter/rescue vs. breeder, I think it would be much better for a family to research available pups/dogs and choose what is best for them. Kind of irresponsible to adopt a puppy that was available from the shelter because it was a shelter dog, only to find out in 2 months that it is not a good fit for the family. Then you have to either "put up" with a dog that doesn't fit, try to find it a home, or give it back to the shelter. What was best for us was a puppy that would grow into a small dog. The few times we found what we thought might be "the dog" we ran into the "too many questions" problem. What was best for us was NOT having to answer more questions and give out more personal & financial information for a $300 pupdog than we did when we spent $135,000.00 for a house. While I understand the need to find a good family for a pet, I wonder how many "good" people like me and my hubby backed away from an adoption because of this. Then we found the perfect pup, and not too invasive questions, and there was the "you are adopting this pup but we get to have complete control over whether you get to keep him and will visit once a year and if we don't like how he's doing we can take the dog" situation. Aint gonna happen. I remember when Ellen adopted a pooch and violated her agreement with the adopting agency that she was not to give it away but back to them. Most people here were up in arms saying that once she adopted the dog it was hers to do with as she felt. SO I guess what I'm saying is buying from a breeder vs. shelter or rescue group is not all that cut and dried. I don't feel guilty, I thank Jimmer for his post so I don't have to feel guilty about not feeling guilty, and I commend all who adopt from shelters and rescues, but I also say GOOD FOR YOU to those who research their needs and realize that their forever family member was the one they found at a good breeder's home.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 8:19 am
Currently, a Denver station is running a series of stories about "Mill Rescue", a Colorado woman who has established relationships with puppy mills to rescue dogs that they couldn't sell, and would otherwise euthanize. It's very very difficult to watch, as the mill operators give her dogs that are still less than a year old, but are no longer puppies, that are 'unsaleable'. I won't make moral judgments on what people do when they get a pet. However, I think everyone can clearly agree that the puppy mill business is overwhelmingly cruel - and before you buy from a pet shop or breeder they should be thoroughly researched.
|
Dfennessey
Member
07-25-2004
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 8:32 am
my brother and sister in law got a dog that was in a Mill down in TN. a group went down to get a bunch of dogs brought them up to the Boston area and Fostered them out until they could be adopted. let me tell you Layla (the dog) is the friendliest dog I ever met. She knows that when I come over she will get 2 treats from me. She always knows when my car pulls up and she is at the back door waiting for me all excited. About a year and a half ago I dog sat her and she slept with me in my bed and let me tell you she is a bed hog and everytime i had to get up to go potty she had to go out to go potty
|
Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 8:42 am
I won't make moral judgments on what people do when they get a pet. Why not? If you take a living, breathing, thinking creature and purposely make it dependent on you for its existence, versus it being raised in the wild by its own kind, are you not then responsible for it's life and well being?
|
Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 9:56 am
I worked at a pet store. They are not all bad. We sold dogs and cats. They did not come from a puppy mill or kitty mill. They were brought to us by people who did not spay/neuter their pets and we took them, cared for them, got them their first sets of shots and sold them at a fair, price, not cheap, along with a puppy care kit and some paperwork on caring and responsibilities of owning this animal. We figured it was better than them going to the pound and risk getting kennel cough, etc.. The money we got was used to care and vaccinate the next litter that came in. That pet store was the best job, so much fun. I learned something new every day. We mostly did fish and large birds and some reptiles. Except we had no snakes. I wouldn't take in any nor even let them come in the store. My reasons were 1. I am terrified of snakes, 2. It was a safety hazzard to the birds and other small animals, and 3. I don't like snakes. Every morning when I got there, I'd fix the birds their breakfast. This consisted of fresh fruits, veggies, and vitamins that we chopped up and gave to them per a veterinarians guidelines. These birds were not confined to a life in a cage either. Most of them were roamers, for lack of a better description, and either spent time at the counter with us, on an open perch, or in the back room where they had room to move around. However, we weren't cheap either. You get what you pay for at a pet store and before you buy ANYTHING from a pet store, you should research it, as to where they get their animals, etc. I don't have an issue with breeding pure bred dogs. I have a purebred lab. She's awesome. However, the people who sold her took pains to make sure their animals were placed in homes equipped for dogs, people who knew the ins and outs and were ready to handle the responsibility of having a dog for it's entire life. The thing I kinda have an issue with is half breeders. Things like Cockapoos, chiweenies, queenslabs, even labradoodles. They can call them what they want, but they are backyard breeding muts that will most likely end up in a shelters too, because they aren't pure breds, can't be papered and it's tainting the pure bred lines of dogs. There are enough pure-breds that aren't getting adopted as it is. I realize muts are great dogs, but still, is this necessary? I rescued a Chi-weenie a year and a year half ago, with Parvo. He was originally sold for $500 (I found his breeder in the Sacramento Bee and called her up) she had bred them by accident cause she didn't spay her purebred chichuahua and her friends male daucshund was visiting and poof, chi-weenies. I told her well, one of them I just rescued from the pound for $40 and then spent another $200 to save his life. I don't have a point to this story I am just rambling on and on and giving you all information that is not necessary....Welcome to my friday of I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DO ANY WORK, I JUST WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE I AM.
|
Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Friday, April 24, 2009 - 10:25 am
LMAO @ Escapee.. me thinks she's kookoo for cocoa puffs!
|
|