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Archive through May 12, 2008

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Apr. 2008 ~ June 2008: Free Expressions: Advice please....: Archive through May 12, 2008 users admin

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Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 10:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Goddessatlaw a private message Print Post    
Hukd, I certainly understand what you're saying. But really the entire situation is between the brother, SIL and Sharinia's (and brother's) mother. As it appears, the brother and SIL are happy and grateful that Sharinia's MIL is so generous with their son. They clearly have their OWN relationship with her. Sharinia can go to her MIL and say "hey stop giving presents to the kid, you're pissing my mother off." In not so many words, but that is how it will be received. And then not only do you have a MIL who is hurt and mortified, but a brother and SIL who's son has been deprived of the MIL's generosity, to which they did not object and seem to have greatly appreciated.

This is a no winner. I'd have a talk with my own mother and point out to her all the ways she is lucky, and all the ways a grandmother cannot be replaced in a little boy's heart.

If it gets to the point that someone has to intervene on behalf of Sharinia's mother, it should be Sharinia's brother, who's son has been the benefactor of MIL's generosity.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 10:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Totally agree with GAL on this one. Especially "This is a no winner. I'd have a talk with my own mother and point out to her all the ways she is lucky, and all the ways a grandmother cannot be replaced in a little boy's heart."

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 11:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
Sharina certainly will do she wants, but I can tell from her post how torn she is because she is dealing with her own mother's feelings.

Shar's brother and SIL are indeed very fortunate to have this completely unrelated person showering them with gifts. Shar said herself that they "probably feel indebted to her" because of these gifts.

So I might change my tune here, but just to have a third suggestion. I completely disagree on telling Mom basically to simply count her blessings.

Shar, you can still have a talk with your Mom about how this is out of your hands, but you can also address this with your brother and SIL and fill them in about how your Mom is feeling. Your brother needs to put his mother's feelings before those of Shar's MIL, who is no relation.

I'm tellin ya, mark my words posted on this date. There will be very hurt feelings soon enough if Shar's MIL doesn't stop with the overkill. She is Shar's and her dh's family, not Shar's brother and SIL's.

So with that, I'm hopping out of this thread. We are seeing things in a much different way. I am tending to be more concerned for Shar's mother's current feelings of being pushed out (for lack of a better term), but maybe I completely misread the intention of Shar's post.

Dipo
Member

04-23-2002

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 11:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dipo a private message Print Post    
Why doesn't Sharina tell her Mom to discuss the issue with her son,afterall it that seems to be where the problem exists. Then tell her Mom she understands and loves her but the problem is with her son and DIL, not her, and step out of it.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 11:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I agree with GAL. It's not and shouldn't be a competition. If someone likes to give nice gifts, enjoys giving them and the people who are receiving them enjoy receiving them then I think it is very nice. Now if her MIL were going around talking about how Sharinia's mother is cheap or something like that then it would be a different story but it doesn't sound like she is doing anything like that. Otherwise, I'm not sure how this harms Sharinia's mother. Once again, it isn't a competition.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 11:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
Sharina, take yourself out of the middle. Your mom should either grow up or talk to your brother. What a blessing that those children are so loved.

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 1:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
IRA w/GAL. since my mom and dad are gone Dylan has many adopted family that give him things.

Heck, his Xstep mother takes him on vacations and gives him more money than I do on his Bday :-)
She is remarried and she is taking Dylan w/her new hubby and his 2 kids on vacation to Yellow stone in Aug.

Shar, I know we cant make your mom feel like we feel. Its too bad that she feels in competition.
xoxoxoo to ya, Shar

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 2:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
I'm on the let dear old (non-related) auntie go hog-wild bandwagon.

Sharinia should just explain to Mom that it's better for auntie to get her kicks this way than gambling, hooking, or smoking dope in the back room. JUST kidding about the Sharinia explaining part, LOL.



And maybe it isn't really a problem for Mom. She might have been suffering a moment of pique and vented to Sharinia and is over it.

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 3:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
LOL Juju!!

Dahli
Member

11-27-2000

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 3:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dahli a private message Print Post    
I too agree with GAL, and wonder why the mom thinks this is a competition. These are just things... perhaps to examine where her feelings come from might be healthy start to a solution for her.

A little background:
When my ex and I first separated, he took my DD all over the place, New York to see Cats, Toronto for Grey Cup, cruises, Hawaii, shopping trips, her own AMEX gold card -- you name it.

She was 10 at the time.

Anyhooo, some of my colleagues and even my sisters commented on it and asked how I would 'compete with that'

Never crossed my mind, our relationship was built on something much bigger and better than things, and when someone can and does work the materialistic angle - that's fine, but it's not that which makes love grow.

The only thing I would say or feel as the parent is try to reign it in a bit to hopefully balance the love of 'things' on the part of the kids. There must be balance - and gratitude. Perhaps Shar's mom should just go to the grateful place and not worry, her 'spot in their hearts' is not in jeopardy, especially if what she brings to the table is far more long lasting and meaningful, that only a gramma's love can. I don't really remember what my grams bought me, I remember how she hugged, smiled and loved me. JMHO

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 5:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
You guys are awesome! Thanks so much, everyone (you can talk to me like I'm here, lol). Loved all of the diff perspectives. I have been doing a lot of thinking, and you all have helped me gain a great deal of clarity on this, you have no idea...:-)

My mom has been venting to me a lot, unfortunately, and it is starting to escalate. She has actually been trying to find ways of creating more distance between my mil and my brother & his family by not inviting her to everything.

I have tried to assure her and tell her that it is not a competition (but you all have inspired me to do a better job of this). At the same time, you have helped me recognize how this isn't fair to me. All of that said, I do feel for her and am very sensitive to her feelings in this situation, like Huk said

In defense of my mom, I can kinda see where these feelings I think are coming from. My mil is always very nicely dressed and jeweled and my sil and brother ARE very impressed by that (lol). They are always telling her how beautiful she looks and how generous and wonderful she is. My mom does not hear the same stuff, and it hurts her feelings. It makes her feel uncomfy at our family gatherings, and like she is getting less attention and is less appreciated b/c of my mil's presence.

Of course, they do love and appreciate her, but the truth is that they treat her differently. I think they take her more for granted, and they feel sorry for my mil being widowed and are grateful and flattered by her generosity. The other thing is that my sil & mil are alike in many ways. I think my my mom may feel threatened deep down because she sees my mil as being more their 'type.'

Another thing is that my brother & sil gift my mil on mother's day the same way they do my mom (if we all get together). I'm guessing in part out of that indebtedness, and feeling sorry for her, etc..

Soo. My mom I think feels that my mil is going to 'steal' the precious adoration and attention of her only grandchild thru gift giving. Like Huk indicated, kids don't always appreciate the 'right' things. If he gets more excited by my mil's gifts in the future, and thinks that my mil is da bomb, that will make xmases very uncomfy and hurtful for my mom. It crosses the line of what she feels she wants to invite into her home

Altho, like GAL said, my mil and brother and family HAVE developed their own relationship that is worthy of respect. THEY invited my mil to their son's baptism, for example (and she outgifted us all, lol)

My mom is wanting to unring the bell. She is saying 'am I obligated to invite her to every gathering?' If she stops including her with things and doesn't tell her why, that certainly puts ME in the middle and will create more probs ...

plus, you are so right, it is depriving my nephew of things, and the parties affected of a relationship that they enjoy

I am also sure that if my mil knew, she would certainly want to buy less gifts and stay invited, if given that 'choice'

SORRY so long! Really, your insights and suggestions have helped me FAR more than I can say. I will have a talk with my mom, maybe brother & hubby, but try to stay fair to myself, too. If anyone has any other thoughts, I would love to hear ...

thnx again


Rissa
Member

03-20-2006

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 6:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rissa a private message Print Post    
Seems to me that you have a perfect insight into your situation Shar, aren't family politics a wonderfull thing? LOL I agree with GAL as well, it's btn your MIL and your brother. Your position would be to be a sounding board for your mom but not her problem solver. You could let your brother know about his (and yours) mother's concerns. Maybe he is a bit oblivious. :-)

We used to have an issue with my parents at Christmas. They were purchasing so many gifts for my girls that dh and I were only getting them one or two things so it didn't get out of control. We finally sat down and explained that we really wanted the opportunity to spoil our own kids so if they could limit their gifts we would really appreciate it. No hurt feelings and now I wish they would go back to spoiling them so I could keep my own money in the bank. RFLOL Point being that brother could probably calm this down a lot with no hard feelings (if he wants to) with the right approach. If your mom sees one thing (ie the gift giving) changing, it could be enough for her to relax a bit on her other issues (ie attendance at family events). Let us know how it works out.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 9:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
Sharinia, you might try pointing out to mom too how lucky her grandchild is to have so many people who love him. And maybe the only way mil knows how to show that is to buy gifts. Your mom is his grandma and no gifts are going to change that, but how lucky for him to have another special person in his life.

I'll admit to being very biased on this subject, lol. My family and my bils family are very close. My bils mom was Grandma Denise to my kids and my mom is Grandma Melody to Denise's grandchildren. My bils nieces/nephews are mine, I treat them and love them the same as I do his and my sisters girls and they treat me the same as they do bils younger sisters. Other people can certainly out-gift, but I just remember how lucky I am to have this "adopted" family and I truly think the kids are lucky too. Kids need lots of love and attention and having someone else in their corner is never a bad thing.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 5:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
i will just say amen and ditto to War!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 7:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
You know, the problem is that both of these women suffer from a self esteem that believes that they are not good enough. One is trying to make herself more valuable by giving gifts; one is trying to make herself more valuable by pushing the other out.

The real solution is in gently letting these women know that they are valuable in their own right; and not by trying to get one person to control someone else's behavior.

While they both love their 'families', if they would love themselves more, everyone could just relax and get on with it; instead of doubting whether they are loved. And from that place, they can gently ask for what they need, directly from the loved ones they need it from - and not by competing.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 7:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
if someone genuinely loves and values someone and enjoys giving, and has the means; why does that mean she has low self esteem? just because someone is generous doesn't mean they are being competive.
in this case, the mother is assuming the mil is trying to compete with her.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 7:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Annie, it's my best guess about the situation, because she doesn't 'see' at all that it might be offensive to give so much. People with money who are well-centered usually have a conversation about it with people, to make sure it doesn't make them uncomfortable - and they are quite attentive to the signals that people send when it is making them uncomfortable.

She has clearly missed that Shar's mom is getting less attention than her at gatherings (per Shar's posts); or she sees it and is glad (even subconsciously) to be winning. Either way, it indicates a lack of empathy toward someone who is supposedly part of her 'family'. This is a woman who is kind enough to be including her at family gatherings, and she deserves to be treated with empathy as well.

Bottom line, it's up to Shar's mom to say, with grace, to her own son, 'I know MIL is kind and generous to you, and I"m grateful for that. Sometimes it makes me feel like I don't have enough to give to you.' That's the adult way to approach things. Then son can either reassure her and be more attentive in the future; or talk to MIL if necessary. Everyone takes care of their own relationships; rather than someone getting in the middle and trying to fix things for them.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 7:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
i have been fortunate to be around some fairly (normal) wealthy people , and i have never seen them ask someone first if they would like to be on the receiving end of their generosity, but i agree that the mil is not picking up on the fact that the mother is uncomfortable.
but, i am in the camp that if makes the mil truly happy (regardless of her 'movtives') to be generous and the recipients appreciate it, the mother should get over it.

i have to add, i do have experience in this situation. my inlaws are very wealthy (and not normal! LOL) and have never lived in the same town as we have. my parents lived in the same town. when my kids were younger, my inlaws were very jealous and worried that my kids wouldn't 'know' them, so they showered them with gifts. my mom just laughed it off. she knew what their motives were and let our kids be the benefactors. real relationships aren't forged by things, but by time spent. eventually my inlaws realized this too, and the gift giving became more appropriate. (of course my kids were kind of bummed! LOL) i would suggest the mother start some kind of special thing that she does with the kids that is 'just her'.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 7:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
i didn't see your last paragraph, but i most definitely agree that the mom needs to talk to her son and be honest about her feelings.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 8:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Annie, so I think we mostly agree. Lavish gifts are 'often' a sign of insecurity, or of trying to establish a relationship with things.

I do think overgifting can make some people uncomfortable - I've seen it frequently, too. And other people are just happy to rake it all in. That's why it helps to be sensitive if you are the gifter, and you desire real relationships with *everyone* involved. It's just kind.

MIL doesn't have to give everything in front of mom either. That would be another way to be sensitive and kind. And mom can learn to be a bit more forgiving, as well as learning to be honest with her son about her own fears and insecurity.

I'm just uncomfortable with putting all the blame on mom for being insecure. Everyone usually participates in these unhappy systems, in one way or another.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 8:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I can't think of the exact terms my friend used, but she had two grammas... One she called (something like) Gramma Money and the other Gramma Love. You can get the picture. She loved them both very much...

Rosie
Member

11-12-2003

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 9:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosie a private message Print Post    
Karuuna, thank you for your post. You explained something to me that I have been observing for years and just could not quite figure out.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 11:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
yeah, i guess sort of! LOL
i just go by the mantra 'you can't change people, you can only change how you react to them.'

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 12:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
thnx everyone!

Lol Rissa @ wishing your parents would go back to spoiling

Very cool to hear your story, WG. Love your advice ... it is like Dahli said, go to the grateful place (maybe some eft too, eh Dahli? :-))

Julie, love that--Gramma Money and Gramma Love (lol)

Annie, thank you so much for your suggestion. great idea. Maybe my mom could also ask my brother & sil in advance what is the thing that he wants most (or second most, if they want to give it, lol) for xmas, bday, etc..

I think the difference in my mom's situ and yours is that there is no 'well I am here, and she is not.' Also, my mom doesn't actually mind if his other (bona fide) grandparents (who live in Spain) spoil him. They have spent months living with my brother & sil, helping them with the baby, and my mom wasn't jealous or insecure about that at all. Last year he spent a month with them in Spain over xmas. She also has never worried about what my in-laws have given me. She isnt phased that I am very close to my mil and we have always had marathon phone convos, and she is always treating me to nice meals out (while my parents usually expect me to pay for myself), etc..

A lot of it I think is having to endure, in person, all of the wowing & fawning by my brother & sil (which is probably more so because she is not their 'real family'). And my mom has been tolerant ... but the gifts are increasing and her grandson is approaching an age where he is going to really start reacting ...

Kar, thank you for posting. Always love your insights. As usual, I think you are so on the mark :-) One thing, though....I may not have been clear on this, but I feel put 'in the middle' b/c my mom is starting to not include my mil in all of the usual things and is acting strangely evasive about it, and my mil & dh are wondering what is going on. Needless to say, that puts me in a very awkward and difficult position. And if my mom doesn't handle things well, it will TOTALLY affect me & dh. I see a ticking time bomb and want it diffused carefully ...

I don't want to 'have' to intervene, and still am not sure exactly what I will do. But the truth is, I feel that I could help. My mom is probably rather myopic and emotional with this....and I feel I have a lot of perspective here, esp after all of your guys posts:-)

I have gotten soooo much more out of all of your stories, insights, advice, jokes:-) than I can possibly say - again, thank you


Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, May 12, 2008 - 12:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Rosie, you're welcome. Glad it helped. :-)

Annie, I agree with you there. Control over your own reactions is the best way to maturity and peace of mind. At the same time, in families, we want to be able to talk about things honestly and openly, so we can all grow together too. It can be difficult trying to figure out which issues are your own, and which situations might bring growth and closeness by working them through together.

Sharinia, I can understand it may be effecting you, too. It's very hard to "stay on your own side of the net' when it's family, and it disrupts family unity.

I would gently remind you what you already know -- that sometimes if you make something your problem, you don't help others learn how to solve problems on their own.

If you think it's really bad, then your role might be to say to your mom "it's not good or healthy what you are doing. And I can't stand by and let you hurt yourself and others with this behavior. So let's make a plan together than we can both live with."

If you intervene and 'do for her' rather than 'do with her', then I worry that you teach your insecure mom that she is right to be insecure, because she can't handle her own problems in an adult way. That teaches her you don't even trust her to be an adult, leading to more insecurity, IMO.

However, I will say that it also wouldn't hurt to tell your brother that your mom is feeling insecure about things and gently 'hint' that it might be helpful if he would step up and effuse over her more regularly too. Personally, I wouldn't get into a long conversation about it with him. Just a simple acknowledgment of all MIL has to offer, and that sometimes it could be perceived that your own mom has little to offer in comparison; and that you know he wouldn't want her to feel that way.

And you know, it may be that your bro and his DW might come to their own epiphany as the young one starts to go "where's my gift" when MIL comes to visit. That's a really nice time to smile kindly and say "boy, they learn fast, don't they?"