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Archive through June 04, 2008

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Apr. 2008 ~ June 2008: Paying in a restaurant: ARCHIVES: Archive through June 04, 2008 users admin

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Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Friday, May 30, 2008 - 12:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tishala a private message Print Post    
I worked in a restaurant a few years ago--it was a mid-level place (main courses averaged ~$25) and it was huge: outdoor dining, three floors, etc., and it was terribly run. Because they seated people willy-nilly, and because they didn't like the idea of giving a server a compact, designated area, I frequently had to go from the kitchen to the outside to the second floor to the first floor to the kitchen etc. It was terrible. And, because they didn't have a sommelier, I also had to do the full wine service, too. It was infuriating because I had to wear restaurant drag--the long pants, the white shirt, the long apron, the full makeup and done hair--and I ran so much it was like a work out.

To top it off, half the time the bartender called in sick, so I had to make the drinks for the customers, and my knowledge of drinks is limited to what I drink (vodka with anything, martinis, mojitos, etc.) and I am not particularly adept at preparing them in a way that approaches professional quality. All I know is that I ended up gaining 10 lbs that summer because I'd get home at 11 completely wired from the experience and I had to have a cocktail or two to calm down so I could go to sleep at a reasonable hour.

Anyhow, dining experiences in LA are generally some of the worst I have ever had. When I lived in Philadelphia, the wait staff was typically excellent and professional--you could go to a high end or a mid-range place and get wonderful service because the servers did that as a profession. The same thing has been true when I have eaten out in Boston and San Francisco. In LA, however, with the exception of the very finest places, much of the wait staff is lethargic and uninterested precisely because they are aspiring actors and actresses who are just waiting tables until they get their big break; if you look like you might be a producer, you can get really good service, but otherwise you take your chances.

LA waiters and waitresses, though, are maybe some of the most underworked I have ever seen. They typically just take your order and bring your check and that's it. They have others who bring out the food, bring your drinks, etc., and it seems to me that this leads to a too-discontinuous dining experience. I understand that other staff might help out a server when he or she is behind, but this is by design and it's, I think, to the detriment of the dining experience. Maybe this is a trend? I don't know, but I don't like it.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, May 30, 2008 - 1:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
At most restaurants here, mid level, the hostess seats you and takes your drink order and brings them to you. Then a waiter/waitress comes by about 2 minutes later and asks if you'd like any appetizers and takes your meal order, refills any drinks, brings your appetizer, refills drinks, brings food, comes back to refill and to ask if anyone would like any dessert, if no, they leave the check and clears any used dishes.

Webchiq
Member

07-11-2005

Friday, May 30, 2008 - 1:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Webchiq a private message Print Post    
Has anyone ever seen that episode of Third Rock from the Sun where Jon Lithgow puts his pile of ones on the edge of the table and explains to the server that he will be removing them from the TIP and then he takes one off for each thing that he doesn't like? It was hilarious. I do the same thing, but I keep it in my mind.

Escapee, how did you get your restaurants to keep the drinks refilled? The only way that I've found to keep the drinks refilled is to pay for each cocktail, then, suddenly, they see the empty glass.

And, if I didn't make a reservation, in the Seattle area, I would jump up and down for joy that my wait was only 30 minutes.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, May 30, 2008 - 1:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
I meant drinks like soda, water, coffee, etc.

Webchiq
Member

07-11-2005

Friday, May 30, 2008 - 3:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Webchiq a private message Print Post    
I know you did and that was what amazed me. I have a hard time getting my drink refilled unless it's a pay-for-each-one drink and then they're right on it.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, May 30, 2008 - 3:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Well, a sure fire thing to do is when the waiter/waitress walks by, stick out your foot, she'll trip, and you'll have her attention.

Actually you know I am kidding, but about 6 years ago, Dh and I were at an upscale diner for my 21st birthday and I had sprained my ankle pretty badly a few days before, so I had my foot kinds stuck out from under the table, in a weird kinda way, but not so much it was out in the isleway. A waitress walked by with a large tray of drinks, and tripped over my foot, causing excrutiating pain and dropping all the drinks. I felt so bad, she felt bad. It was awful, but we laughed about it because it was just a freak accident.

Then another time at a not so high class place (ahem, sizzler)we were sitting at a back table and the waitress walked by and spilled a drink down my sisters back, then told my sister "Damn, you got in my way" and my sister retorted "In your way? At the table with the chair pushed in? Gee, sorry. Sorry that this is the best job you'll ever get." Complaints to the manager probably ensured that, but she was really a <93>.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Friday, May 30, 2008 - 8:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
45 - 60 minute waits is why I don't eat out on Friday or Saturday nights unless we go eat by 6pm at the very, very latest. I just won't stand around in a restauraunt waiting for a table.

Early dinner or late lunch is much preferred! I like to walk in and sit right down. There's hardly a food around that I want to stand and wait 60 minutes for. :-)

Spygirl
Board Administrator

04-23-2001

Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 1:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spygirl a private message Print Post    
Brenda, by 5:00 on Friday or Saturday, almost all of the good restaurants around here are already on a wait.

Twinkie
Member

09-24-2002

Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 1:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twinkie a private message Print Post    
Same here. Especially on Fridays. Being a mostly Catholic area here in western NY every restaurant has a fish fry special on Fridays, so there's a wait line. Saturdays aren't quite as bad but close.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 2:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
We always make reservations. Don't they take reservations? They don't make you wait (for long) if you have a reservation do they?

Twinkie
Member

09-24-2002

Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 4:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twinkie a private message Print Post    
Some places take reservations and some don't. Most of the time we don't decide to go out to dinner until hubby gets home from work so we try to go as early as possible to get wherever we are going before the crowd.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 11:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
LOTS of places in Vancouver won't take resos, if they can do enough walk-in business. The problem with resos in a place that is popular, is that lots of times people are late, or just don't show up, so you've had a table sitting empty for more than necessary. Many of the casual chains won't take resos and large groups are expected to put down a deposit to hold the space.

More fine dining places will for sure take resos, but most busy mid-range places won't out here.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 5:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Eeyore, the manager said that a fairly large party (of 20) came in unexpectedly. BUT... both hostesses walked by no less than a dozen times and never acknowledged us until I walked out to them. The cocktail waitress walked by at least that often, and never bothered to stop to ask if we wanted drinks, refills, or appetizers. The bartender didn't come out behind the bar, either. There were also several others who walked by and ignored us. Meantime, I saw groups of two to six people come in and be seated. The restaurant was NOT that crowded, there were plenty of tables open that we could see (both outside and inside), and no one bothered to let us know what was going on.

It was the worst experience I've had in a long time, and in one of the better restaurants in the area. And while the manager was surprised and upset, it still bothers me that she'd expect me to call ahead to ensure I get decent service when next I go there.

Again, telling us a half hour was fine and we agreed to wait. But after 45 mins to say it'll be a minute, and then ANOTHER 15 mins say it'll be a minute, and then ANOTHER 15 mins still nothing (for 1.25 hours total) is unreasonable and unacceptable. If we had known the wait would be that long we would've gone elsewhere. It's not like that was the only restaurant nearby.

They gave us a choice, we accepted the choice, yet they fell down on their side.

Honestly, I'm never going back.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 7:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Yeah, that sounds like a BS experience Costa. And a single table of 20 shouldn't BREAK you. And the fact that the rest of the team wasn't working JUST as hard as the server, says many things. First, the initiative of the bartender, host, etc. themselves sucks. The team atmosphere in that restaurant is either stunted, or just isn't cultivated. Not to mention the fact that the manager's ability to delegate responsibilities is practically non-existent. That whole restaurant sucks, right through. I'd have written a letter to the owners, or as high as I could possibly go, that's for sure. The RESPONSE was also ridiculous. A person has to call ahead to expect decent service? WTH? When people are standing around with their thumbs up their bums, then it was the restaurants CHOICE to GIVE bad service. Disgusting that the manager actually placed FAULT on a customer for what was clearly their problem.

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 7:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
call ahead for decent service

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, June 02, 2008 - 6:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Well, in all fairness, what she actually said was "let me know when you are coming in and I'll make sure I have my best people available to you." But that's not what I want. What I want is good, decent, and respectful service when I go in, without having to ask for it. When a food critic goes in to write up a review, they often don't say "hey! I'm coming in so be sure to do the best you can while I'm there!"

One thing I forgot to mention... all the dozens of times that various staff personnel walked by us? Most often they did make eye contact. They were not walking by avoiding us. They were just not doing their jobs or caring that they weren't.

There are many MANY lovely places to eat on the beach here. We have a LOT of choices. And I have a LOT of people visiting here (one of the perils of living in paradise). So, from now on, I'll just take friends and family to a different restaurant. (Actually, it's more fun to go to The Del anyways, cause of all the history there! And they have an awesome patio that overlooks the ocean, so the atmosphere is better, too!)

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Monday, June 02, 2008 - 10:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
And I have a LOT of people visiting here (one of the perils of living in paradise).

Is that an invitation Costa?!?!?! LOL I'll be on the next plane!!

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Monday, June 02, 2008 - 1:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
Now that we have this thread, I would think they probably don't have the staff to cover the empty tables. Before this thread, I would not be happy to see empty tables and be told it would be a 30 min. wait.

To answer your question Eeyore, before reading this thread my answer would have been to want a quick explanation why I have to wait. I would have been content to wait in the waiting area or outside if I chose to wait. It would not have occurred to me that the place is understaffed for an unexpected rush of customers. It would have bothered me to have that wait and see empty tables though without an explanation. Worse though would have been seated and no service. If I was seated and then told that the service would be slow, that would bother me. If I was given a choice, I'd be happier being able to control the situation some myself by making a choice.

Aurora23
Member

03-22-2008

Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Aurora23 a private message Print Post    
eeyore, would it be possible for you to make a chart of recommended tipping and have the mods post it at the top of this thread so that i (and maybe others) don't have to read all the way through the archives to know?

i'd like to know how much (percentage of bill) is considered proper/expected/normal for good service at a buffet, a sushi bar (for the sushi chef & waitstaff), bartender when sitting at a bar, deli, fine dining, coffee shop, etc.

is this too much to ask? i find it all very confusing. i hear 10% at a buffet, 15% and nothing at all. i want to what is right by the staff.

thanks in advance for your response, whatever it may be.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 11:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Hmmmm......that's an interesting question Aurora. Honestly, the thing about tipping is it really IS personal. I can see why some wouldn't tip for counter service, because there isn't much service past the counter. Me personally, I leave whatever CHANGE I get, and keep the bills. It's no 20%, but it's not zero either.

Here's what I do, but your mileage may vary, and I don't think anyone should be forced into tipping if their service was sub-par.

Buffet: hard to say, because some buffets are fairly impersonal. You walk in, you get assigned a table, and then all food and drinks are gotten by you, and then you pay on your way out. So the only thing I'd tip for there is any kind of SERVICE that you do get. People clearing your tables of the dirty plates, filling water, etc. Some buffets DO have more service involved, like a person who takes drink orders, brings drink orders, etc. If you have personalized service, I would tip at least 15% personally. They still take care of you, so that's why I'd still tip. I've never worked in a buffet, so I wouldn't for sure know if they are paid higher, or what their situation is.

With that said, sometimes a restaurant would run a buffet on a special occasion like Mother's Day, and then I'd still tip 15-20%.


Personally, if I get any sort of personal, AT-the-table service at a sit down restaurant, be it clearing my plates, taking an order, or talking to me in any way shape or form, I give at least 15%.


At a bar, I give a buck a drink to the bartender, 1.50-2 dollars for doubles. I rarely bother with cocktail waitresses at clubs, mind you I don't go to clubs much. At most pubs, I run a tab, then tip about 20% or more.

Coffee bars get my change, minimum 50 cents. If my change is somethings like 13 cents, I'll go into my wallet to get rid of a bit more shrapnel.

I think tipping also depends on the scale of your ton or community economy. Bigger cities, people tip a minimum of 20%, mind you smaller cities, in maybe "cheaper markets" people tip less. I come from Winnipeg (North of Grand Forks, ND) and 10% tip is A LOT! Most prairie people tip pretty poorly, but they don't have that whole appreciation for the entertainment/dining culture.


For any sit down service, I think 15%-20% is standard, for the service that is expected of that restaurant. You shouldn't tip more or less just because the prices went up or down. The level of service also goes up and down with the prices, so the whole thing stays in proportion. Low priced chain restaurants like Chili's will have lower-standard service, and lower-priced food, which translates in a lower dollar amount tip, even if you're staying at 15-20%. If you go to a high-priced, fine dining place, you service level goes up a lot, your bill goes up a lot, and your dollar tip amount goes up a lot, even if you're staying at 15-20%.

If ever you are wondering, just ask your server what the average tip percentage is in the area. My answer is always "The industry standard is 15-20% of the bill, as long as you thought the service was good. You can tip more if your dining experience was exceptional, you can tip less if your experience was unpleasant. It is entirely up the the discretion and experience of each guest." I usually also add that if they had ANY concerns about their experience, we can't make it better unless they tell a manager.


If you have some time, you can read back through the thread, and you'll see that many of us have very different ideas about tipping, and none of us are correct. There really is no right answer. I want at least 15-20%, but if your experience sucked, don't EVER feel obligated to tip that because a server told you so. The moral of the thread so far is that bad experiences SHOULD NOT get a tip, but SHOULD be told to a higher power, so there is action toward improvement.


I'm happy to answer questions, so don't be afraid to ask more.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
And I think you mentioned earlier that the 15-20% is the percentage of the bill before taxes are added on?

Sajó
Member

06-18-2007

Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sajó a private message Print Post    
Here in Hungary tipping is 10% but we give 15%
Tipping is not included in the bill, even in the best restaurants.

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
Not to interrupt but yes, Jimmer, before tax :-)

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 10:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Yup, although I just do it on the final bill because I"m lazy.

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 10:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
LOL EEY....as do I