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Archive through June 08, 2008

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Apr. 2008 ~ June 2008: Paying in a restaurant: ARCHIVES: Archive through June 08, 2008 users admin

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Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 11:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
People can't be expected to work for free.

Jimmer ya know I luvs ya...

Generally people choose where they want to work, unless they are endentured. Makes sense to choose to work where you will get a fair wage. And once they are HIRED then it behooves their EMPLOYER to pay them a fair wage. IMHO. I 'grok' that's not the way the restaurant industry works. But I don't have to like it or subsidize it. Tipping to me is enforced charity. I'd prefer to pick my own charities to support. But due to societal pressures and expectations, of course I do tip, and tip decently when I can afford to, which thankfully is most of the time nowadays. The point is that if the price is folded into the price of the meal then that is what it really is - part of the total price of the meal, and not the pretence of something optional.

Also I'd like to point out that my friend chose this restaurant, I'd never heard of it. If memory serves me correctly it was a chicken and rib place. In those days, a fastfood joint would have been preferable and more comfortable for my wallet. At the time I was in my late teens, early 20's.

ETA - Didn't I read somewhere upthread that tipping is a no-no in most other countries in Europe, etc. It's nice to know that entire countries & cultures concur with me. LOL

Anyhow to reiterate for hopefully the last time, I do tip and I do tip fairly. Gads, now everyone will be up my nose if and when we meet to check out my tips. Ack!

Holly
Member

07-22-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 11:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Holly a private message Print Post    
I'm curious about if and how you tip other services, i.e. hairdressers, massage therapists, cleaners, manicure and pedicure technicians, taxi drivers, etc. What kind of scale do you use for those services. Is it still 10-15%?

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Holly I'm stepping into the line of fire again, but I believe the general rule is if you are being served by the owner of the place you do not have to tip. Not sure if that's still the case, but I have often tried to tip various folks over the years and they've refused it, and it always turned out to be the proprieters. In my experience that goes for restaurants & hairsalons, massage therapists, etc. Apparently many proprietors get offended with being tipped as it implies they are not a thriving establishment, or somesuch. But I do try, cuz I feel they carry the burden of the expenses of the running the place.

Oops, don't think I answered your question...

Holly
Member

07-22-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Holly a private message Print Post    
But what if you are being 'served' by a hired stylist, manicurist, or masseuse just working in the establishment? What scale do you go by then?

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Holly, I am guessing that you are right, that it's 10-15 percent, like you said above. I'm sure more knowleagable folks than I will chime in with the correct answer. :-)

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
Maybe the restaurant field does need some revamping, but for now, tips keep our bellies full. I am grateful for those who wish to work as a server, because I certainly would never want to do it!

I'm confused that your second post said this was something that happened when you were in your 20's, but your initial post said something about "...a 10% tip, or "on very rare occasions, less than that." IMO, this isn't really fair to the server, who we know live by the tips they receive. If it was me, I would opt for no drink or eat a cheaper meal rather than to in essence, "stiff the server." No offense meant, just my two cents.

Serate
Member

08-21-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Serate a private message Print Post    
I'm curious about if and how you tip other services, i.e. hairdressers, massage therapists, cleaners, manicure and pedicure technicians, taxi drivers, etc. What kind of scale do you use for those services. Is it still 10-15%?

Glad to see we tip ok on giving $2 at Fantastic Sam's for a haircut. [Yes we're big spenders we pay $14 for a haircut.] To tell you the truth, I think we are some of the biggest tippers in our current FS. When we tell them to add $2 for each haircut it's like REALLY are you sure?

Holly
Member

07-22-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Holly a private message Print Post    
No worries, MB. I'll probably never need to know anyway. I live on my one, very small teaching income, so would never be able to afford luxuries like a house-cleaner or beautician anyway. :-)

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
The situation I described in my first post with my friend who embarrased me loudly in the restaurant occured when I was about 20 years old give or take a year or two in either direction.

I go out to eat when I can afford the meal. I never deliberately intend to 'stiff' anyone. And I always I tip fairly - when I can. Years ago things were very difficult financially for me, so I did the best I could when it came to tipping.

I believe that Eeyore has mentioned that 10-20 percent is considered fair with 15 percent being the average tip. While some tip more.

We are under the delusion that tipping is a personal choice, generally for quality service. But it's rather evident in this discussion it's a madatory test of the customer's largesse rather than the server's performance.

Serate
Member

08-21-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Serate a private message Print Post    
On our newspaper statement there's a place for a tip for the delivery person. Last time I paid I drew an arrow to a place where I wrote "Here's your tip: deliver our paper by 6:00am as stated in our contract and we won't cancel our subscription." Hasn't been late since and it's been almost 2 months.

Rude? Probably. But the contract states by 6am as it's a MORNING paper, hubby leaves at 7am, and getting it at 7:30am or later is not what we are paying for. He can read it at work for free if he wants. I'd be ok if we didn't have a daily paper. Just want the Sunday paper for the coupons and ads.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Holly, with my laundry list of medical crap, getting a cleaning lady (last time it was a guy!) in here to help me plow through once every 2 or 3 months is not so much a luxury as a necessity, or we'd be living in pigbum central. I do my best to keep tidy, but certain things are physically beyond me or hubby. But I do know that in the scheme of things, it is a luxury, because I know that like most everyone else, we are only a paycheck or two from disaster, and I remember all too well what scrimping and being broke was like. Most often I was so broke that being able to save rainy-day money was a luxury! As for my beautician, I've been going to her for 5 years, and she worked out a flat fee for me, as I'm there so often - when I'm working she irons my hair. Plus she's the proprietor... as well, my dh and I gift her with cartons of pasta from dh's factory a few times a year so she loves us! (We do that with our family doctor too, and last I heard nobody tips their doctor!)

Just cuz I don't like the concept of tipping, and wish things were different in the restaurant business doesn't mean I don't tip, or tip fairly.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
In North America, tipping is an expected part of paying for ones dining experience. There is nothing charitable about it. Someone is being paid for the service they are providing. It is expected. The optional part is the amount of a tip that a person receives but that is usually based on the quality of service.

In contrast, someone accepting good service without paying for it is accepting
charity.

People may not like this method of compensating servers but by not tipping when the service is good, we only force the server to work for less than the normal expectation. We aren't penalizing the restaurant by not tipping. We are only hurting someone who provided good service to us.

There are times when the service has been bad, where I've informed the server and the management and not left a tip. There have also been times when the service was not up to expectations where I have done the same and left a reduced tip. It has to have been very bad though because it also means that I will never eat at that restaurant again (or at least not for at least a year).

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
I think we should tip our kid's teachers based on their service to our kids:-) I kinda wish that practice was the norm since that is a highly underpaid job

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Now you're talkin' Pamy! ITA 100%

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
Serate, I love what ya wrote on the bill for the newspaper! LOL

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 12:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
Around here, entry level teachers do pretty well. I believe they start out in the low 40's. They also have the New York State Retirement plan (which is pretty valuable, IMO), health insurance packages, and work a 9 month year. The option exists to be paid year around, or just the 9 months. Many work summer jobs, as well.

While teachers are really so critically important, they are generally paid fairly well. Given the fact that there is incredible unemployment, very few full time jobs with benefits any more, I think I'd skip the tipping, lol. I doubt that many servers have paid health insurance or retirement plans, so I certainly don't begrudge them their tips!

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
...someone accepting good service without paying for it is accepting
charity.


<77>

Once the customer pays for the advertised meal plus taxes, they have not accepted charity in any way shape or form. The ONLY thing a customer is LEGALLY obliged to pay for is the price of the meal plus taxes. Of course most of us leave a tip, since it's the way things are done here. But it is a gratuity, and it should be up to the customer how much they feel they should leave factoring in the quality of the service AND their financial circumstances. And I don't want to give anyone the mistaken satisfaction of thinking I do not tip waitstaff, I do and I do it fairly.

But I know I am not alone in feeling the way I do on this topic, it's a very sensitive one for me. I saw other posts above that reflect my opinions above. (No I am not going to hunt them up.) Anyhow, I knew in my gut I should have continued to lurk in this thread, dangit. It's a nice day, mind you, it's too hot and humid, I'm going to take a nice relaxing bath and relax. I don't come here to get upset, when I share my opinions! I have friend who are currently as broke as I used to be and I make sure they never go hungry. I have treated to more meals for friends than others will ever know. I am a very generous person in ways that would be crass to discuss, but I resent being made to feel badly when I have strong opinions that hurt nobody: Just cuz I don't like the concept of tipping, doesn't mean I don't but discussions like this make me even more resentful of it.

Holly
Member

07-22-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Holly a private message Print Post    
Not in this state, Huk. The service industry, however, which is very prevalent in Florida, takes tipping to another level. We tip EVERYONE here--except teachers!

And yes, MB, I even "tip" my doctor and his office staff by taking them in gifts and cards on holidays...when you have the kind of medical problems I have, you want all the help you can get.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
Well, come on up to New York, Holly! Besides that, we pay one of the highest (if not THE highest) welfare benefit rate. We have it all here in New York. Best of all, Buffalo chicken wings and Roast beef on weck. If nothing else, you'll eat well!

Check out the average starting teacher salary by state...New York is second, with an average of $48,000.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=High_School_Teacher/Salary/by_State

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Holly, C'mon up to Toronto, and dh and I will keep you in yummy and filling pasta! And we can play Scrabble til the cows come home. :-)

I think it's super that you also 'tip' your doctor! :-) We bring him at least 2 cartons of goodies - one for him and one for his staff to divide among themselves, several times a year.

We also give our friends, some who are less fortunate than we are, tons of pasta throughout the year. We may not have cash to throw around, but we do what we can for those we care about and who care about us.

I am also big on CONTRA deals, where services are exchanged for services. Years ago I used to write brochures etc, for a massage therapist in exchange for therapeutic massages.

Serate
Member

08-21-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Serate a private message Print Post    
The ONLY thing a customer is LEGALLY obliged to pay for is the price of the meal plus taxes.

Actually in most places if your party is 8 or more they add a gratuity and it's usually at least 18% sometimes more. And by sitting down and ordering, you agree to this mandatory gratuity.

How can they call it gratuity if it's mandatory? Blech. But I guess I understand why they do this because in big parties it's easy for the server to be stiffed.

The convention we were at a couple weeks ago, they did this. But they took all 12 of our orders, had one cook make them, held all the orders so all could be served at the same time. Can we say COLD FOOD? They guy paying insisted the manager take 50% off the bill, but made sure the server got the full gratuity. She did her best with what she had to work with.

Holly
Member

07-22-2001

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Holly a private message Print Post    
Gosh, Huk, with close to 17 years under my belt, I'm nowhere near that! They tell us that "sunshine is 50%" of your salary here in the "sunshine state" which, btw, is a "right to work" state.

But what on earth is weck? Never heard of it.

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
Mame, you know I feel exactly the same as you do. And your posts show why the tipping system here is wrong, in my opinion. If I go out to dinner, which I do rarely, I don't want my experience clouded by worries over whether I'm tipping properly, whether, as the server kept us waiting, I am allowed to dock the tip without feeling like a cheapskate, whether the fact that because they didn't do anything wrong (not that they did anything over the top) means I should tip 20% rather than 15%. I'm very frugal with money, but I occasionally eat out to have a pleasant evening with my dh, or a nice lunch with a friend, and the social pressure detracts from the experience. I don't want to leave a restaurant thinking I've done something wrong and I'm not willing to throw my money about just to alleviate that discomfort.

Price the meals to cover the serving staff and I'll happily pick and choose on the menu what I'm willing to pay for. And if the staff go over and above what I think is their job, then I might give them extra. It just makes much more sense that way.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Oh Kitt - thank you! I just wish I could have said it as clearly & succinctly as you did. I am way too oversensitive and emotional for my own good. sigh.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 1:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
From: http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Sandwiches/BeefOnWeck.htm

<<It is a roast beef sandwich on a salty kummelweck roll. In fact, it is this roll that makes the sandwich unique. Made only in the Buffalo-Rochester area, the kummelweck—often alternatively spelled kimmelweck—is basically a Kaiser roll topped with lots of pretzel salt and caraway seeds. Kummelweck is simply shortened to “weck.” The sandwich is usually served with sinus-clearing horseradish (you can tell a native Buffalonian by the amount of horseradish he or she used), a couple of huge kosher dill pickle slices on the side, and extra beef juice served straight from the roast. Wash it all down with a cold, locally brewed ale.>>

This is a more realistic picture of roast beef on weck: