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Archive through January 19, 2008

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jan. 2008 ~ Mar. 2008: All Things Technical: The Help Desk: Digital Camera/Photography Help: Archive through January 19, 2008 users admin

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Landileigh
Member

07-29-2002

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 7:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Landileigh a private message Print Post    
thank you for explaining it to me julie. now i understand and of all the cameras you have looked at, i think the SD850 is the camera for you. when you compare the SD1000, SD750, and SD850 on cnet.com the 850 is THE camera to buy.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 11:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Julie, just get the SD 850. It totally sounds like what you need.

I WILL say however that no P&S is an instantaneous as an SLR from when you push the button to when the picture is taken. SLRs are the fastest.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 11:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Now that I think about it, it could also be that you're feeling button lag in a scene mode where there needs to be an open shutter before a flash. Could that have happened?

As I was explaining above, there are a lot of night modes that will USE the flash, but not until the shutter has been open for a full second or so, to catch more of the ambient lighting. Look back to the very first page of archives in here. I had a phto where my friend had two heads. The lighting is the way it is because the shutter was open, I was moving the camera around, and the flash when off two seconds later. It's a cool effect, takes some creepy pics, but Using that mode, people need to be still, as does the camera. Use a tripod. But yeah, in modes like that, the shutter is open before a flash goes off. People think no picture is being taken if the flash hasn't gone off.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Feel free to pass up my post if you are irritated to read that i have still not made up my damn mind!!! I have narrowed it down to 3 cameras. If you'd like to give any thoughts, I'd appreciate it, though I know I've used up my amount of all your advice from this thread!

Choice 1. CanonSD850. Solid canon camera with great reviews. 4x zoom and viewfinder.

Choice 2. CanonSD870. Same as above with great reviews but has a more useful lens (wider-than-normal, 28mm-to-105mm, f/2.8-to-f/5.8, 3.8x optical zoom lens) Almost as much zoom as the 850, but better for groups shots.
BUT no viewfinder!

Choice 3. Panasonic Lumix DMZ-TZ3. Very good reviews. Huge zoom (10x). 28mm-to-280mm-equivalent, f/3.3-to-f/4.6, 10x optical, Leica zoom lens can handle both wide and close-up shots.
NO viewfinder. Plus I am not sure if it comes with the redeye removal on the camera plus I am a little nervous of figuring out a new brand (as I already am familiar with canon cameras and software....)
BUT that zoom plus the 28mm start are awfully compelling...

----
My main wants:
small & fast (as you lose shots fast with kids, ie blowing out b-day candles...)
as much zoom and as much wide angle as I can get
(obvious) really nice clear, crisp, colorful photos

-------
Somebody just shoot me!! Am I as irritating as I feel with all this indecision? (Sorry if I am!!!)

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 5:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
I am getting a huge kick out of you, Julieboo. My little Canon Powershot SD1000 that I bought last week on day two hundred sixty-seven (okay, day five) of your search is just super. I took a picture of Bigdog replacing floor tiles just tonight.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 8:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Julie - have you gone in to the store to look at ANY of these? A good store will stick a memory card in for you, and let you play around with each camera. Go somewhere big like Circuit City where they are more used to people saying "Thanks but I'll keep looking". That way there's not as much pressure to buy.

I think if you go in, and play around with menus, you can get a better sense of how easy the Panasonic is to use. I have played around with a few different cameras, and my Casio seemed like a very intuitive menu. Then the other day in my photo class, I tried playing with the menus on the Canon 40D SLR, and I couldn't even muddle through to find something as simple as changing the size/format of picture that the camera took. So I think in-hand experience is important too.

It seems like you have 3 cams that would make you happy for different reasons. Now go down, get the feel of them in your hand, stick them in your back pocket (with the salesperson's blessing), etc. Look at how quick they power on, how quick they take pictures. Those things are huge, and that stuff is not always mentioned in reviews. Those are things that bug us once we get home, and then we regret and doubt our decisions.

I suggest going down to a store before deciding.



As well, I don't mind all the indecision. It took me about 7 or 8 months to buy my SLR. And I doubt I'd be any more or less satisifed than if I flipped a coin 7 months earlier! LOL But some of us have to dig through EVERY aspect of information, before buying. I am currently looking to get my first HDTV. I'm ALMOST ready, but not ready at the same time. Still reading and pouring over every little detail.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Eeyore, when I check new messages, I saw "Julie - have you gone in" and I thought I'd see "...sane" finishing your sentence!!! (Cuz I think I have, in fact, gone insane over this!!)

At any rate, yes last week I went into (oddly enough) a Circuit City to look at the 720 & SD1000. At that point in time, I was pretty sure those were the only 2 I was interested in. So I do need to get back there. My biggest stall of doing that is Abby. I know she won't let me "play" with the cameras and I doubt the Circuit City guys will tend to her while I "play." So I need to wait til this weekend when I can go sans children...

I am amazed at how the employees ar a few camera specific stores (PJ's Camera and Holiday Camera) don't know very much. I asked some basic ?s and they did not know the simplest things... (I knew much more than they did.)

So I will for sure follow what you said, and see how they feel. And also see if I can tell a diff in the lenses. I sure hate to give up a viewfinder, but if the wide angle is that much more noticeable, then I guess I can. (Especially cuz they claim the viewfinder works in brite sunlite.)

Plus I have to test out that panasonic to see if it is simple enough for my pea-brain. (But I know the quality of the canon is supposed to reign supreme!)

The professional reviews are great, but I would like some solid reviews from someone who is not quite as "techie" as they are and could rate a camera without being quite an expert in photography. Know what I mean? Like they get all upset over no manual controls while I see that as a good thing--something I don't have to mess with!

Thanks for your input and understanding my indecision!!!

(How far are you from Portland, Oregon? Maybe you can make it down for a meet later this spring when I will be able to take plenty of TVCH photos with whatever camera I get. I sure better have made up my mind by then!)

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Oh, one more thing (sounding like Steve Jobs). If you're at Circuit City or wherever, take a pic on the 10X zoom, or whatever is highest. Then, go into the picture review mode, and then ZOOM into the pic as far as you can go. It will show you any noise that is in the pic, or how it handles contrast etc. Those little screens make EVERY PIC look so good, because the screens themselves are tiny. You can't really see if the pic itself is actually blurry. So compare the image stabilization features at full review zoom, to the ones the Panasonic produces. It's one thing that you get more zoom, but how those pictures look when you've blown them up to their max is important too.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
To sum up my thoughts about this - you are so right Eeyore.

Seriously, your advice is pretty much what I would say too.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
With a 10x zoom, would you always need a tripod? Or only when you zoomed to a certain point?

(Good idea Eeyores, about checking out the quality like that.)

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Thanks Jimmer!! I really am flattered!!

Ummm.....hard to say about the tripod. Many of the cameras that have image stabilization features (or with Nikon lenses it is called Vibration Reduction), will say that if you're mounting on a tripod, you should turn OFF the IS feature. I'm not sure what they say on IS P&S cameras, but it might be the same. If you're looking for that answer, I would search the specific forums for the specific cameras, to see what people are saying about it, as those things aren't often mentioned outside of the camera's manual, or in forums.

My friend bought me a little tripod for Xmas a couple of years ago. The legs extend from about 8 inches to about 50 inches. Definitely not something that helps with family shots or in non-windy situations, but by no means a professional quality thing. But I do carry it around with me, just in case. Anyways, I just wanted to point out that tripods aren't these cumbersome things you'd need to carry with you, just to use your zoom lens. You can get some pretty portable ones that pretty much do the job.

My reasoning is this: If you're taking pictures with a point-and-shoot, you can't get OVERLY serious about picture quality. For the most part, they take great pictures, and the amount of difference you see between a portable tripod and a pro tripod, is the same as what you'd see between a P&S cam and an SLR. So don't let the need to a tripod make you decide NOT to look at a high-zoom P&S.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
You're welcome Eeyore.

With respect to long lenses and tripods it depends on the amount of light you have to work with, the sensitivity of the sensor (ISO), the shutter-speed, image stabilization and how steady you are. So if you use a higher ISO, have a decent amount of light and can use a higher shutter-speed then you are okay.

However, with most P & S cameras you don't know the shutter-speed. So you would use something like "Sport mode" which would give you a higher shutter-speed.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Went to Circuit City today. The SD850 was there on display, but it was not functional as they could not get any power to it!?? How can they not get the power to it? It sat there looking really broken as the lens was opened to a zoom position. I actually remember it from last week (when I was looking at the 720 and 1000) and it was still "broken" back then. I can't believe they wouldn't fix it in a week's time...

They also did not even have an SD870 at all (box or display).

Oh, and neither of the 2 guys there knew anything about the tz3.

So off to Best Buy I went. The two guys there knew quite a bit more about the cameras and they had all 3 working displays. But by this time, Abby was not very content and there were other customers checking out the canons.

Then I called 2 "camera specific" camera shops that are near me. One of them does not carry Panasonic products and the other has not had the SD850 in 5 months and did not have the SD870 at all, and won't for at least 2 weeks. WTH??!! I really wanted to spend some quality time there this weekend and have someone really go over the cameras with me... Guess I'll do what I can at Best Buy.

What I hate most about BB and CC is they tether down the displays in such a way that you cannot get a true feel of the camera in your hand and no way could you see if it fits in your pocket. (And no, they would not even open a box for me without charging me a restocking fee???!!!) UGHH.

And from the little time I did spend looking at the cameras, I did not (no pun intended) "click" with any of the three cameras. Their menus all seemed complicated. Guess it is a matter of spending time with the camera and reading the manuals! (preferably without a baby in the cart!!)

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I do have to say the wide angle on the 870 is way nice!!! Plus it can zoom up very nicely too!!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 4:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Wow. You don't have any camera stores there that carry them. It really helps if you can handle the camera without it being attached to some anti-theft device. LOL - It's even better if they have a battery for it and it works.

I know I'll sound like sour grapes here but people get what they pay for. They'll go to a good camera store and spend time there checking it out and then instead buy the camera for a few bucks less at a big box store or on the Internet. And that is why we can't look at real cameras as easily any more.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I agree Jimmer. And I haven't looked for a camera since ht G6 about 3 years ago. Even since then, at least one camera store (the place we got the G6 from) closed. Very sad, because the only way (at least in my opinion) to get a "real" camera is to test it out somewhere first.

On the other hand, the online cameras are $50 to $100 cheaper on line. So while that may not be a lot of $$ for some, for others it is a lot... I don't see how any of the little camera stores can compete with that.

I was also (sadly) amazed to find out that Ritz/Wolf/Kits do not carry many cameras. They don't carry ANY of the ones I am looking at. The 570 is the closest that they carry...

Suz
Member

10-13-2005

Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Suz a private message Print Post    
Costco has the Canon SD1000 7.1 MP 2.5" LCD Bonus 2 GB SD card for $199.99, if that's a good price and anyone is interested.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 8:11 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Here is a small, but cool feature that the 870 has. It has a bar so you can see how your 4x6s will print. I don't know about you, but I often have problems with tops of heads getting cut off cuz I keep forgetting that the camera takes a full half inch more than the standard 4x6 print!

(You can see the bar in the left photo) or if it bugs you, then turn it off (as in the right photo.)



Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 8:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Here is a comparison of some cameras. Is it me, or does i look like the 870 has a lot more yellow in the pictures? (Here are the direct links if you want to see more...
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona720is/page5.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canonsd870is/page5.asp



Not to mention the 720 looks crisper???

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Yes but are there more artifacts? It does look sharper though.

The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm not sure how precise the quality control is on these cameras. So you may see a difference in your particular camera from the review model.

The 4 x 6 bar feature is kind of cool. The SLRs all shoot with a 2 x 3 ratio so that isn't an issue but we have to keep it in mind if printing 8 x 10's.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, January 18, 2008 - 5:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Jimmer (or anyone who might know the answer), can you read the blurb below and tell me how the wider angle lens can get closer to your subject? (I would think that would be a statement you'd read about a zoom...)

The SD850 IS's lens starts at an equivalent of 35mm and ends at 140mm. For a compact camera such as this, I prefer a lens that starts wider, such as the 28mm-to-105mm lens found on the PowerShot SD800 IS. The wider lens lets you fit more people into those group photos, or get closer to your subject, such as in a nightclub.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, January 18, 2008 - 5:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
That's kind of a funny way that they phrased it. Of course, you can get as close to your subject as you want (and as your subject allows) as long as they are still in focus.

What the wide angle does is allow you to capture a wider angle of view from the same distance. That can be helpful if you are photographing a sweeping landscape or if you are taking pictures of a large group of people and you don't have much room to back up (there is a wall in the way).

Generally speaking though for regular portraits you wouldn't want to use a wide angle because in order to fill the frame you would have to get so close that the perspective wouldn't look as good. For group portraits, if you have room, it is better to back up than use wide angle.

Some people (mostly landscape specialists) love wide angle. I hardly use wide angle at all as it doesn't generally suit my subject.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Julie, I just talked to my friend, and he said he has the Casio 1050. He said his only complaint was that he needs to change the flash to SOFT for evening photos.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 7:42 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Thanks Jimmer and thanks Eeyore! The way that guy phrased that, makes it seem like a wide angle helps get closer to the subject.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 7:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I was really getting interested in the z1050, when I read this:

Compact cameras almost always have problems with redeye, and the Z1050 is no exception. It's pretty bad, as you can tell. Amazingly enough, with all the bells and whistles on the camera, Casio managed to leave out a redeye reduction tool.

One thing I am excited about is removing redeye before I download any photos. I am so tired of doing it over and over and over again. (Though Jimmer gave me excellent directions in doing it so the result is awesome. I just hope the auto feature works half as well...)