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Archive through January 15, 2008

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jan. 2008 ~ Mar. 2008: The Entertainment Place: Celebrity Buzz: Archive through January 15, 2008 users admin

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Beckie03
Member

07-05-2007

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 3:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beckie03 a private message Print Post    
Karuuna, didn't she do it twice though. The first time was involuntary and then she went back and checked herself in, or vice versa. I could be wrong, but I thought that was what had happened?

And she very well could be suicidal and stating those things and we just don't hear about them.

Frogichik
Member

06-11-2002

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 3:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Frogichik a private message Print Post    
It just shocks me that she is saying she is "afraid" to walk through the paparazzi to get into court, but yet she has no problems pushing her way past them to get to Starbucks. <24>

At some point she just needs to say to herself that it's me, I am the one with the problem, I am making bad choices and start asking for help from the right people.

Stay home, read a book, go get some counseling, do yoga, get some introspection.....just do something besides go to Starbucks, buy new cars, buy more houses and date the paparazzi.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
Wappy, I'm not sure if it'd be the same with Britney (I said with Paris when she went to jail she was treated differently than normal people and that could be happening with Britney too, I dunno.) But, this is what we learned about getting someone committed for the 72 hour watch (that's the 5150?? I can't remember the term.) No matter how bad off they are it is damn difficult to even get them involuntarily sent for 72 hours. The hospital will send out their team to talk to the person, but if the person is unwilling to go and shows even the slightest capability of taking care of themselves, they won't or can't force them to go. If the person is in an altered state (drugs or alcohol) they won't touch them and suggest getting them to drug or alcohol rehab first before dealing with the mental issues. Even the 72 hour hold is hard because the hospital can release them if they don't believe the person to be a serious risk to themselves or someone else (serious risk...ready to kill themselves.)

We also learned that the cops could take someone in and drop them off if they so chose but the cops were usually unwilling to make that decision (the numerous cops we talked to never even mentioned they could do that, the mental health people told us that,) but again very hard to keep them if they aren't a serious threat to themselves and like Kar said, they could still refuse meds.

Trying to get someone in for a 72 hour hold was as bad as banging our heads against a brick wall and trying to get someone, anyone to help was even worse. We tried for months, calling anyone and everyone who'd listen and always got the same answers. We tried and tried talking to our family member begging them to get help, but they never even acknowledged having a problem no matter how bad things got. It is the same as drug/alcohol addicts, you can't force someone to get help who doesn't want it and doesn't even think they have a problem.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
Ack, just reread my post and I'm not sure it makes much sense. It's still a very sensitive subject for me, sorry!

Nyheat
Member

08-09-2006

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nyheat a private message Print Post    
I dunno--her pupils always look dialated to me. Seem like she is high most of the time and just impulsive and irresponsble. She had kids too young (for her mental age) and hasn't worked the urge to party out of her system.

Part of the problem with Britney is that she's not very articulate, so it's hard to tell exactly what's wrong with her.

Sorry I don't have any great insights here...

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
'Not very articulate' runs in that family. I can think of another word for that.

Yankee_in_ca
Member

08-01-2000

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yankee_in_ca a private message Print Post    
Eeyoreslament's post reminds me why I won't bike or ride a scooter here in LA. Too dangerous.

Nyheat
Member

08-09-2006

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nyheat a private message Print Post    
lol apparently Simon Cowell had some advice for her....

http://tv.yahoo.com/american-idol/show/34934/news/urn:newsml:cp.org:20080109:TV-32003022__ER

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Wargod, I think your post made a lot of sense. It's exactly what I've been trying to say. 5150 is the California term, altho each state has its own laws. All those laws are then subject to constitutional civil rights. That's why it is so difficult to have someone committed, since doing so unless there is clear and present danger to themselves or others is a violation of their civil rights.

If anything, maybe it will be a wake up call to how we view and treat the mentally ill in this country. If you can't force someone who is so obviously ill and such a public figure into treatment, then imagine what it's like if it's just some ordinary schmuck like you and me. And how horrific it is to watch that person destroy themselves step by step. And trust me, it is heartbreaking and horrific.

And then of course there are so many who blame the mentally ill for not just seeing what's happening and fixing themselves right up. To me, it's similar to blaming someone for having leukemia. But when it's behavior oriented, people don't seem to get it.

All of these thoughts that Britney should be able to see what's happening to her are interesting, but probably not applicable. I think she *cannot* see what is happening to her - her view of the world is so distorted, at best she only catches glimpses.

I remember sitting with my dad, who for weeks hadn't gone out to get groceries, so he was living on eating (used) coffee grounds. He was convinced that every time he left his apartment, the next night the construction crews would tear up the roads he used. He was afraid that eventually all the roads out of his neighborhood would be torn up, and he would not be able to get out if he had to.

No amount of reasoning would convince him otherwise, even though he was clearly starving to death. Reason/ration/reality is just not available to someone who is mentally ill.

And even with that, I couldn't get him committed. All I could get was a social worker who would stop by once a month to be sure he had food. Sigh.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 4:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Well, some of us kid around a little, get exasperated and all, but we do understand. All it takes is a reminder this is serious stuff.

So sorry about what you went through with your dad, Kar. That must have been so hard for you. I take it he is gone now?

I remember the meds Ed's dad took for his Parkinson's gave him hallucinations. He said he knew they were hallucinations, but he still saw them and had to live with them. (He thought a family was living in the closet in his room at the nursing home--where he didn't last. Went home and was much happier there, under the care of 2 rotating nurses.)

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, January 14, 2008 - 11:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
Yah I've been there with a family member as well... getting someone involuntarily committed is an extremely difficult thing to do. As Karuuna said, it is stripping them of their constitutional rights and not done so without a determination that the person is an imminent threat to himself or others. Someone cannot be 5150'd for longer than 72 hours without a judicial determination. If at any time during the 72 hour period, the individual is deemed not to exhibit imminent threats then they must be released...So it is not only difficult to commit them, it is equally difficult to hold them.. Unfortunately she has to really hit the skids and want to ask for help...

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 12:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Larry King had a segment about Brit tonight. The TV medical doc on Larry's panel (sorry, don't know his name, but did recognize him) said he was sure this was a serious medical problem, and he was guessing that bipolar or post partum (Kar, you and he are on the same page) issues were at work here. He added she has to have all narcotics out of her system for months before a concrete diagnosis can be made.

I also heard on the show that there were no drugs found in Brit's system during this last hospitalization. (Maybe you knew this, but I didn't.) That surprised me and further convinced me that there is, indeed, a serious mental illness involved here.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 12:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Wesley Snipes facing trial regarding $38 million in unpaid taxes from 1999-2004. (Owes $15 million + penalties and possible 16 years in jail. His two accountants are tax protesters . . . meaning they advised Snipes not to pay taxes. Course Snipes was aware of their perspective.)

Evidently, (per CNN) if you can prove your understanding of the Constitution is that you need NOT pay taxes, then no jail time is imposed. However, you must still pay the taxes--and penalties.

The last celebrity to skip paying her taxes? Leona Helmsley.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I thought there were no illegal drugs in her system...

And it certainly is difficult to get someone held. Just about the only way would be for them to commit a serious crime and then be fortunate enough to be remanded to a psych facility instead of a correctional facility and even then they'd not necessarily get appropriate treatment and would eventually be back on the street. Brit and other celebs at least have the money to get real treatment, IF they ever get to that point of accepting it and even then they have to find a place that isn't just exploiting them for the money (so many people I knew who were highly dissociative would go into these potentially great dissociative disorders units and then the minute their insuarnce ran out.. they were dumped.

And several have mentioned the issue with drugs/alcohol. Many programs will not treat someone who hasn't been detoxed and that isn't easy to get someone to do either.

In Brit's case, who can she actually trust? She seems to have no friends, just hangers on and I have to include, to some extent, her family.

It is all very sad, especially for the boys.

I do think she shouldn't have a driver's license. Of course at some point she hadn't bothered to get one and was forced to do that, so it isn't likely she'd stop just because she lost her license.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
The doc was Dr. Drew Pinsky, who hosts VH 1 Celebrity Rehab Show. Talking about another Anna Nicole ending--which I know has been mentioned here previously.

You may be right, Sea, about 'illegal drugs' being the term actually used. I'm listening again to confirm.

He said she was also addicted to all this attention.

I heard her British accent. So strange!

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 2:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
I agree Herk. I don't think there will be a happy ending with Britney.

Ophiliasgrandma
Member

09-04-2001

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ophiliasgrandma a private message Print Post    
As for drugs in her system: In less that two days they could determine that. Then why is it where there is a death it takes weeks to get the results? I am confused!

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Because a urinalysis and an autopsy are very different.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    

quote:

he was guessing that bipolar or post partum


And herein lies my problem with all of this... every one is GUESSING what is wrong with Britney. And it's just that... a guess. I have a real problem with people throwing around guess diagnoses (including Dr. Phil and Dr. Drew). It's obvious there is something wrong somewhere, and while it's going to be difficult to get her to see anyone to even begin to get an accurate diagnosis, I think it's very wrong to label her as mentally ill without actually being the doctor who talked to her.

BTW, um, OK, Dr. Phil you already know how I feel. But Dr. Drew? Um, really? Why is it the only people willing to talk about this poor girl's "health" are "TV star" doctors?

If I were Brit, I'd be paying real close attention to what these "doctors" were saying. To label someone as mentally ill, if that person isn't, could be cause for some interesting lawsuits.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't something wrong somewhere. I don't know if it's a mental problem, an emotional problem, an attention problem, or what.

And I don't know the answer. Because she IS an adult, she can control if/when she is seen by a "real" doctor and if/when she actually gets real help. Although her behavior is erratic and (most often) incomprehensible to most of us, she is still "in control" of her own life.

Sea, I dunno who she can trust. I can guarantee though, if I were her, I'd not trust any "doctor" who has appeared on any TV show, ever!!! :-)

Ophiliasgrandma
Member

09-04-2001

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ophiliasgrandma a private message Print Post    
Dr. G takes urine and blood from the bodies she autopsies. Still the toxicology tests take forever. It just doesn't compute. We've all read about celeb deaths that it took weeks before the results were known. Sorry, I'm so dense, but I don't understand why the discrepancy that they could tell so soon with Brit.

Prisonerno6
Member

08-31-2002

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:03 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Prisonerno6 a private message Print Post    
If Brittany has a mental illness (big if), than she may not be in control of herself -- she may not think she has a problem.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Well, in Dr. Drew's defense, he was pretty conservative in his choice of words--and his attitude. He said exactly what you said, Costa. That it was all just speculation. From just observations, he said, it appeared to him this was a very, very serious medical illness matter. He took Dr. Phil to task for his actions.

That's when an entertainment commentator--also on the panel--said that Dr. Phil's wife and Brit's mother had been friends for a long time--and that the family had talked with Dr. Phil about the situation for over a year. So that is why Dr. Phil took it upon himself to visit her when he did.

Dr. Drew was having none of it, saying Dr. Phil had no license to practice medicine in CA and that it was unbelievable to him that Dr. Phil was imparting medical advice, let alone jeopardizing patient confidentiality by talking about Brit's situation in any way.

The entertainer commentator responded that Dr. Phil's planned show was (supposedly) to be of help to parents with children whose age prevented them from getting them getting them committed.

Dr. Drew maintained his shock about Dr. Phil's lack of responsibility with respect to patient confidentiality.

Oh, and yes, he mentioned, Brit probably has no understanding that she has any problem.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
Dr Drew is not in the same category as Dr. Phil. I have never seen him act irresponsibly or as a media hound. Is this any different than when CNN or Fox brings on an attorney to give their view of some case that is in the news that the attorney has no personal knowledge of?

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
Another important distinction with Dr. Drew is that he runs an addiction program and has for a while. he is an addiction specialist. BECAUSE of his expertise, he has been become an media 'personality'.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:35 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
I don't have a problem with the speculation (obviously). When someone is in the public eye, well, they are in the public eye. And of course it's speculation, diagnosis of mental illness can be very difficult in person, and impossible in this situation.

However, I think there is still a tremendous stigma about mental illness in this country; and whatever gets people talking about it and learning more about it is a good thing.

In fact, it seems to me that even the feeling that there is something wrong with discussing that someone may be mentally ill validates that there is that stigma. Why is it any different than speculating about any physical attribute?

Mental illness is real, and in some cases is horribly devastating to individuals and their families. I say let's talk about it more, whatever Britney's situation is.