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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 8:46 am
Another question. Canon uses this image on their website when describing the 850. So how could you take a photo like this with no manual controls? Isn't that impossible? (Wouldn't you need to force the background to be fuzzy like that?) I'm not even sure I could do it with my G6....
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 9:21 am
What image, Julie?
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 9:29 am
DUH! Hold on!!
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 9:29 am

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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 9:52 am
All of these little point and shoots have various mode settings. The problem is that you don't always know exactly what each setting does with respect to camera settings and you certainly don't know what shutter-speed and aperture it is using when you take the shot. LOL – You do afterwards once you get the image on your computer by looking at the EXIF data but that's not much good at the time you are shooting. They probably did that in Macro mode if the camera has that. They also probably zoomed the lens to full telephoto. That and being so close to the subject helped reduce the depth of field and produced the background blur. These companies are very clever when they produce their sample images. They want to imply that the camera is doing all the work but it has an awful lot to do with the experience of the photographer, knowing how to use light and angles to obtain the best results.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:18 am
Thanks Jimmer! So would that technique work on a person's face if you got in close enough? (clear face, blurry background?)
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:42 am
It can – with limitations. One of the problems with the point and shoots is that the sensor is so small that they have to use extremely wide angle lenses anyway. If you look at the lens itself it is enormously wide angle but because the sensor area is so small it acts like a much longer lens. The good thing about that is that you can get enormous depth of field so you don't have to worry about precise focus and you get the background clear in your shots (which the average snapshot kind of person probably likes). However, if you are trying for artistic portraits, it has its limitations. You can get around those by using Portrait or Sport mode (which will give you a wide aperture), zooming the lens to the farthest telephoto range and trying to get more room between the subject and the nearest background object. As I mentioned, Canon's sample pictures are very clever. Very close to the subject, full telephoto and a large building a long way away in the background all contribute to the narrow depth of field look.
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Landileigh
Member
07-29-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:50 am
the portrait mode on the canons do that automatically. says so in their manual. so all they did was hit the MF button and put it on portrait mode. two simple steps.
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:43 am
Yay!! Just got my A720... just checking it all out and will try to report back soon. So far, so good... its probably more than I need but oh well, its not gonna hurt either. I really like the size and weight and it has pretty much the same stuff as my last Canon, so at least I know the basics. I do like having a choice between viewfinder and screen. and no red eye so far..
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:47 am
I do not like removing red-eye IN the camera. From what I understand, it just grabs a cluster of pixels around where your pointed, and then desaturates. It is very off, in my opinion. Even when I use red eye features in some photo programs (PictureIt!, MS Office Picture Manager, etc.) I find the desaturation often hits skin area and really does ruin the original picture. I'd rather use a more sophisticated program that lets me define the EDGES of the redeye desaturation area, so no skin is greyed in the process.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:47 pm
Eeyore, I use photoshop myself, so I probably have higher standards in the red eye area. I know my mom uses an older version of iphoto that has a feature and she has bad results at times. But if you check out the DCRP site the guy does it with each camera that has it (it being redeye removal). Here's the site www.dcresource.com and I will attach a photo from one of his reviews...

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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:59 pm
landi, have you tried the portrait mode and does it actually make the background blurry? TIA! Cinnamon, does that work on your A720? (The portrait mode:blurrry bkgd/sharp face)
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 9:07 pm
Jimmer (or anyone who knows), what, if any, advantages are there (or drawbacks for that matter) in getting a zoom when taking basic pictures of people? In other words: I am pretty much set on the sd850. But I was in a walmart and they had the sx100 (which has 10x zoom). Well, for some reason I really liked the feel of it quite a lot. But I don't think that i can get past the fact that the size is so close to my G6. However, if the photos would be better, then I might reconsider. I have heard that having a zoom can be a minus in that the light has to pass through all that zoom and somehow makes the photo that much less sharp???? TIA for any insight you might like to share. PS I am bummed that I cannot find one single camera shop (near or far) that is open on Sundays. (The only day we can get a babysitter). And beyond that, I cannot find one single camera shop within 20 miles that has all three models on display (Canon A720, SD850 and SX100). Best Buy and Circuit City do, and even Target and Walmarts have some of those models, but they all have those blasted theft prevention devices... and no real camera experts. (rant over)
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:38 pm
If you're taking a picture on a large zoom, the sharpness is lost if you have hand shake. Another way of phrasing that, is that hand shake is magnified with great zoom. This is why IS or VR are good features on zoom cameras. As for the unknowledgable salespeople are places like Circuit City: they aren't paid enough to find out about every single point and shoot camera, and to compare them. If you think about it, each company currently has about 10-20 models on the go at any one time. And they introduce 5 newer, better models every single season. Really, there are just TOO MANY P&S cameras to choose from. I've worked in an electronics shop before, and there was NO WAY I was about to know everything about every stupid product we sold. Even if I took one product a day and learned it, I still couldn't keep up. And no minimum wage job allows you the time to just peruse the entire manual, or every product. And sorry, I'm not about to go home and read the internet, and every review site, etc. on my OWN time, just to learn about a camera or two. (That's me speaking as a camera salesperson). Not to mention, it's a 200 dollar camera. I, the salesperson, am only going to make like 2 bucks from the sale. Not worth it. Do your own homework, and I'll keep the shelves stocked and tidy. Julie, you don't need all three cameras in the same place. Just look at each camera on it's own. And don't buy something that looks just like your old camera. Why are you duplicating? Honestly, by the time you make a decision, the model will no longer be in production, and the newer models will be out, and you'll then have to find NEW reviews and sites and things to dwell on. We all say get the 850. Just do it. You'll be so happy once the burden is lifted, and you have a camera in hand. Think of all the photo ops of your kids that you are missing!!! You're gonna love it!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 10:24 am
Yep. LOL – I was going to leave it at that but I'll add my . The problem with zooms is that they have to have more glass in the lens in order to work. Once you add more glass then you introduce problems with light passing through more stuff. That is why prime lenses in the past were considerably superior to zoom lenses. Today though they have introduced a number of things that have improved zoom lenses quality. That includes better designed glass to reduce distortion and various coatings to reduce unwanted reflections etc. So a good quality professional zoom is the equivalent of a prime lens today and they have made some improvements to the little zooms as well. With respect to your specific question, all the point and shoot cameras have zoom lenses. Regardless of whether your lens is zoomed out or in, the light is still passing through the same glass. It's not like some of the glass disappears. So the main difference is stuff like camera shake etc. Bottom line though is we're not talking about cameras with $2,000 - $3,000 lenses on them. We're talking about little point and shoots. It just isn't going to make that much difference anyway. As I've said before, the reason they don't have many good specialized camera stores with knowledgeable sales people is that costs money. People will just go there, spend ages getting good customer service and then go and buy the camera somewhere else and save a few bucks by doing it. Then the other store goes out of business. Cheap prices do not equal good knowledgable service. Plus as Eeyore said, most shoppers don't care. They just look around for a few minutes and buy something that they think looks good.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:52 pm
What I have learned: mainly from sites like DPreviews, CNET, etc and of course Jimmer and Eeyore (and yes, most of this has been stated here, but this is my list of what I have learned.) And some of these things may seem obvious, but here goes: You can never get that instantaneous shot (meaning no shutter lag at all) in a digital that you got with film. (maybe you can with a dSLR??) I know Jimmer and Eeyore have both stated this already and I know I am going to say it in a very cumbersome way: all cameras in a certain price range made by reputable companies are going to produce very similar photos. The difference is the person taking the photo. If the person has the knowledge (of using various functions) then they can make the difference in whether it is an okay shot or a really good shot. Along those same lines, do not assume that the more expensive a camera is, the better photos it will take. That is entirely up to the person taking the picture. (and to some extent, the control features that are on a given camera.) Also, using auto may not result in as good as a photo as if you use the control functions to make the conditions better for each photo. AA batteries may be more convenient, but they are slower** than the (?) nickel batteries. AA batts will also increase the size of the camera. Camera shops seem to be on their way out. Apparently the low prices that online places can offer (as they have so much less overhead) have pretty much forced these shops into extinction. I was bummed to find a much smaller inventory at a camera shop (or even a Best Buy) as I found online. (interjecting a tip here: A good way to help make sure you take a crisp photo is use the viewfinder—brace the camera against your face—not quite as good as a tripod, but it can help.) Zoom is great, but if you don’t need it or won’t often use it, don’t get it. It can affect the quality of your shots. Think about how you will be using your camera and what type of shots you will be taking. Look for the “best camera for me” rather that just looking for the “best camera.” (ie do you take more landscape shots than portraits, if yes, then you might want a wider angle lens, etc.) I am sure there’s more, but that’s what is off the top of my head...like I said, most of these things have been mentioned here before, some more than once... Thanks to all of you who have thrown in two cents or more to my questions... - - - - - ** I came *this close* to getting the A720, especially after seeing some of the gorgeous shots that landi got with her A570 (practically the same camera), but the slow time is what convinced me to go with the SD850. That and the fact that I really did want a total pocket camera as I still plan to use my G6... The most annoying thing to me is missing a shot that would have been caught if the camera snapped the picture when I pressed the button. Plus missing shots if I did not have to wait for the battery to take so long to recharge...
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:10 pm
Great post Julie!!! Just for your and everyone's info, the shutter-lag with the dSLRs is non-existent. They are astonishingly fast. So you decided to go with the SD850? I am very close to going out and buying one tomorrow myself.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 1:29 pm
Thanks for sharing your conclusions, Julieboo. I am going to give you an A on this term paper.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Friday, January 25, 2008 - 10:20 am
Can anyone answer this for me? In simple (Non user manual) terms, what are these settings, and what do the various settings do: Slow Synchro: On, Off Auto ISO shift: On, Off AF-assist beam: On, Off ISO Mode: Off, Continuous, Shoot Only, Panning Thanks! Also, thanks Juju, for the A!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, January 25, 2008 - 12:51 pm
Slow syncho. When taking pictures with a flash, the shutter speed is normally around 1/60 second and the flash provides almost all of the light. However, if you are taking pictures outside and it is near dark or in a very large room, the flash can not light up the entire space. So you would use slow synchro which still uses flash but a much slower shutter speed to better light the background with existing light. Auto ISO. There are three ways to brighten an image. The first two involve allowing more light to hit the sensor. That is accomplished by using a wider aperture and/or a slower shutter-speed. The third way to do this is by raising the ISO or increasing the sensitivity of the sensor. Auto ISO does this automatically in low light conditions or in conditions where you want to maintain a certain shutter-speed. The downside is the higher the sensitivity the greater the noise in the image. AF Assist beam. Just a beam of light that assists in auto-focusing. Some people don't like it or there are certain situations where you might not want to use it. ISO Mode: Off, Continuous, Shoot Only, Panning. I think you mean IS Mode or Image Stabilization. Reduces camera shake. Continuous is it runs all the time. Shoot only is only when the shutter is partially depressed. Panning only tries to correct up/down camera shake so you can pan the camera if you want to. There are different types of image stabilization that are offered under different naming conventions. With Canon's IS, the lens actually moves. Same with Nikon only they call it VR (vibration reduction). Other companies move the sensor. Other companies try to do it by manipulating the image data in the camera after it has been captured. Other companies do it by increasing ISO. I think the general consensus is that IS and VR are superior, followed by the sensor movement and then the rest are far less effective.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Friday, January 25, 2008 - 1:20 pm
Jimmer, you are awesome! Now I am down to three questions: For the slow syncro, do you set it to off and change it just in those conditions you described? Would it be bad if you set it to on for the most part? Auto ISO; better to set it to on or off? ISO mode--what's the diff in using continuous or shoot only? (saving battery life??) ----- So did you get an SD850?
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Friday, January 25, 2008 - 1:23 pm
hmmm, now that i think about it, I think I'd rather have the Auto iso off, so it won't bump it up and possibly make the photos more grainy cuz it'd use a higher ISO...(is that right???)
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Friday, January 25, 2008 - 1:29 pm
Jimmer, I think I get the slow synchro thing now. So, I am thinking leave it off unless you want it. And the cons of having it are that you may need a tripod or you are likely to get a blurry shot... (correct or not???) The pros would be that you'd get a lot more light -- like not just the person in the front lit up, you get the whole room lit...(???) But the blurry result might not be worth it.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, January 25, 2008 - 1:34 pm
Yep. Just use slow synchro under the described conditions. It uses a slower shutter speed so you are much more likely to get blur with slow synchro. Auto ISO. Hmm … it depends on your style. Of course, if you know what you're doing (and you do) you can always increase it yourself if needed. IS Mode (remember it is IS mode). With the SLRs it definitely uses more batteries so it is never set to continuous. Not sure on the point and shoots. Of course, if you set it to shoot only, you have to partially depress the shutter to see the effect. I kind of like shoot only but that may be my SLR background. Yep …. I got the SD850. It was perfect for my needs (decent size sensor but not ridiculous, small body, decent telephoto, nice quality, good features – like IS).
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Friday, January 25, 2008 - 1:41 pm
Awesome! How do you like it so far!!! One tiny thing thing I really like is the display overlay 3:2 guide. Many times, despite the fact that I know better, I get my 4x6 prints back with a bit of some heads cut off.
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