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Archive through December 17, 2007

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Oct. 2007 ~ Dec. 2007: Free Expressions: Advice please....: Archive through December 17, 2007 users admin

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Teachmichigan
Member

07-22-2001

Monday, December 10, 2007 - 5:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Teachmichigan a private message Print Post    
I'm 5'2" as well -- but my Jeep has adjustable seats up and down! (That was a major requirement for me! LOL My first "new" car was a Saturn w/those kind of seats, and I swore I'd never sit too low again! :-) )

Kaili
Member

08-31-2000

Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 12:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kaili a private message Print Post    
My mom is 5'5", I am 5'4"- I have no problem driving her Subaru. My aunt (they're twins, so also about 5'5") dives a Honda CRV but it's older- not the new body style.

Subarus are a little pricier, but they last FOREVER and they retain their value.

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 11:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
I REALLY could use some good advice here ...

My sis recently discovered that the guy she was dating for almost a year & a half is married and a pathological liar.

For many reasons, we all (friends & family) agree that he seems to be a sociopath.

He has a lot of eerie parallels with Scott Peterson. Charming, good looking, oozing sincerity and integrity while pathologically lying, etc. He is only 31 and is already on his 2nd marriage and who knows how many affairs.

He hasn't made any threats, but my family is still concerned about her safety.

My sister's friends, my dh & mil feel that she should 'out' him to his wife. She also feels that she should let her know the kind of man she really is with (in the interest of her own safety etc).

My parents and I believe that it is too risky - it could enrage him and trigger a desire for revenge.

He is a cop who possesses a loaded gun. He is very into forensics (taking classes etc). He listens to Eminem (violence & retaliation against women). Scary.

My dh says that if this guy were to ever pull a Scott Peterson and kill his wife, my sis would be suicidal for not having warned her. I say, if he really were that dangerous and capable of murder, does my sis really want to enrage him??

Right now we have no reason to believe that the wife is any imminent danger.

My parents & I worry that if my sister were to let her know everything and it ruins his marriage, he could seek revenge.

Should my sister 'out' him to his wife?


Twinkie
Member

09-24-2002

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 12:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twinkie a private message Print Post    
Absolutely not.

Sportsfan
Member

09-03-2007

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 12:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sportsfan a private message Print Post    
I wouldn't, I would just break it off and distance myself. Besides...his wife may already know, and/or not thank your sister for interfering (usually what happens) IMO.

BTW...did he tell her about the wife or did she find out some other way? If she found out on her own she just might have something to fear. No sense taking a chance.

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 2:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
NO she should not do anything like that now. Step one would be to find a safe way to get herself out of the relationship. If she can do that, somewhere down the line, after time has passed, if she still feels badly about it maybe she could tell his wife some way that doesn't directly implicate her.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 2:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Sharinia, please give your sis a hug from me. What an awful situation for her!

This is a very difficult decision to make. I absolutely believe that your sis could put herself in more danger by telling the wife. With someone this pathological, there is no way of knowing for sure whether he is dangerous or not - but the possibility is very high.

She probably also needs to do some soul searching to see if her desire to tell the wife is out of pure interest for the wife's safety, or an unadmitted desire to punish him for his behavior - which would be absolutely understandable given the circumstances. She doesn't actually have any evidence that the wife is in danger (other than the possibility of STD's, which your sis needs to consider as well). Once she teases through that, she may have her answer.

She should also remind herself that telling the wife may or may not make any difference at all. There is simply no way of knowing ahead of time whether she already knows, whether she is really that much in denial, or whether she is on the brink of leaving anyway and just might find that additional little push helpful.

In the end, it may be best to see if you can find someone else who knows the wife to see if you can get more information about her and her situation.

We have a society that generally encourages people to only look out for themselves, and mind their own business. I'm not sure that's always the best course of action, but am also aware of the risks of doing otherwise. It's a tough call.

In the end, it has to be your sister's decision - since the consequences will be hers to bear, whatever she decides.

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 2:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
thanks so much (more replies would also be welcome)

I agree with what you said Sportsfan. Who knows how the wife would even respond, if it would help? It could even backfire by creating an explosive domestic violence situation, for all we know.

He admitted to having a wife when my sister's suspicions were raised sufficiently that it just came to a head and he spilled the beans. He said he felt nauseated telling her and did not want to hurt her, and would like to still be 'friends.' He kept saying things like 'he really cares about her' and he is 'an honest man' (but does not want to tell his wife).

It concerns me that he wants to continue a relationship. And that he may worry that my sister will out him to his wife.

I find no comfort in the fact that he isn't making threats or anything now.

When Amber Frey went public regarding Scott & Laci Peterson, Scott continued to call her and be sweet to her. He said she did a 'great job' and said he was 'proud' of her and she had 'amazing character,' and pressed her to see her.

He gave no indication of any intention to harm her. But later on police found a loaded gun in his vehicle, rope, a shovel, etc, and a map that he had downloaded that day of directions to her office.

I agree that my sister ought to try to end the relationship and distance herself in the safest way possible.

He actually lives out of state, but visits our city periodically. We worry that he might feel that if he knocks her off to silence her, or b/c she rejects seeing him again, or for revenge, that no one would connect it to him - it would be an easy crime. Esp if had someone else do it, or it were made to look like an accident or whatever.

Not saying it's likely, but we worry about the possibility - you know?


Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 2:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Sis needs to get herself completely out of that equation. I would not tell the wife.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 7:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
What Juju said. Plus, I'd do three other things:
1. Change my address
2. Change my phone number
3. Inform everyone that you are "not around" when he calls

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 7:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
Thanks so much for the additional advice, and for caring.

I agree with what you all said here, and it helps to have affirmation.

I was in the middle of writing more detailed responses to you Karuuna and Kitt, when my sis called me with some not so good news

Police Guy called her this afternoon. He apologized profusely for having lied to her. He said he was afraid of losing her if he had told her the truth, and still does not want to lose her. He was immediately drawn to her when he first met her, never met a woman like her, thinks she is so amazing, etc. He is thinking of leaving his wife now, he said.

My sister admits to still having feelings for him. Before finding out that he was married (last week), she was hoping that he was 'the one.'

She says that her head tells her that this is bad, but her heart wonders if they are meant to be together.

What a nightmare ....

HELP

I told her that I can 'understand' that she may have some emotions she needs to work through. But it is important that she realizes that this is NOT a good guy - and she will need to find a way to end this. And that this is a serious situation, and she should consider seeking professional help.

I overnighted her some books from amazon like 'The Sociopath Next Door' and 'Lies That Men Tell' and 'Red Flags' etc..

I am very very worried now.

eta: thanks Costa

i don't want to impose on anyone, but any further advice would be greatly appreciated.

i can tell you more about my sis if it helps

i realize you all do not know her, and won't be offended by whatever you say

she is 30 yrs old, generally smart, extremely attractive and successful in business, has never been attracted to cheaters or abusive men, but i think she can be vulnerable to flattery, esp if it is from a guy that she is particularly attracted to


Chiliwilli
Member

09-04-2006

Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 9:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chiliwilli a private message Print Post    
I think it might be a good idea for her to make an appointment with the local district attorney's or attorney general's office and discuss her fears with someone there. They have investigators and access to personnel files, etc. that most would not have. Unless you know for sure his superiors at his department are not his close buddies and that you can talk to them I wouldn't take that chance. The DA is there to prosecute criminals and the AG is there to protect the state's interest so if there is an issue there they will jump on it, hopefully.

I think the wife deserves to know but you have to find the right way to tell her; possibly anonymously. Your sister isn't the only one who knows he was fooling around.

You should send her some Ann Rule books to read. She has written many, many books about true stories of men murdering the women they "love."

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 12:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
I worry that he's a police officer and that might affect how her story is treated if she were to report this. That he's not local is good, but if she can get some kind of back up that would help. Chilli's suggestion sounds good if the DA's office is separate to the police (I don't know how that works).

It must be very hard for her as she put so much effort into the relationship, but you could remind her that while she was doing that he was lying day in and day out. I do think step one is to get herself out of the relationship in a way that doesn't upset him and then she has to keep herself safe.

There's always a chance he's not dangerous, but she has to make sure that she is out of the equation if he starts to act out. I think you should take her to someone experienced to get advice on how dangerous they feel he is and how much protection she needs to take. Would a women's shelter be able to give advice on who to talk to?

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 12:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
Thanks again for the advice - I really greatly appreciate it.

You all are making excellent points and affirming many of the opinions that my family has had. It is so helpful to have an outside objective opinion.

I'm a fan of Ann Rule and have been mentioning her to my sister. I did order one of her books for her.

Good news is that I spoke with my sis again tonight, and she did say that she realizes that she needs to get out of this, and that it would be too risky to rat him out (whew). She admitted that wanting to tell the wife for her in part was fueled by a desire for revenge.

Indeed, the big question now is - how does she try to get out of this?


Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 12:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
btw, we know for a fact that my sis is not the only one who knows about his cheating

He actually introduced my sister to 5 of his buddies (most married), 3 co workers, and his brother. He got them all to play along and protect his secret. They all hugged her and said 'it's so nice to meet you.' Even took pics. Can you believe this guy!? Who does this?


Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Is there a way for her to take a leave of absence from work and literally "disappear" for a time? Couple that with cautiously exploring ways of reporting/warning .. maybe even getting a private investigator on it to see if he is already on shakey ground with his organization, or if there have been other complaints, .. heck.. think of several real cases.. has the man been married before? Perhaps ex wives are around and would have input. Perhaps ex wives are dead?

It is a tough call, but I imagine had someone warned your sister that would have been appreciated.

Anyway, great care must be taken.

that is good news that she realizes she needs to get out and also that she cannot just "out" him without very careful planning.

If he remains "at large" he does remain a threat to your sister, IMO.

Chiliwilli
Member

09-04-2006

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chiliwilli a private message Print Post    
Can you believe this guy!? Who does this?

Apparently, this guy and all his friends do.

Since they don't live in the same town, her local authorities may not be the same as his. If they are in different counties, even better, as the District Attorneys are different in each county. The AG usually is for the entire state but there should be many Deputy AG's so possibly there is a local office.

I think she definitely should find someone to report this to, not only to protect herself but all the future girlfriends and his wife. His wife deserves to know what's going on and possibly a disciplinary report will out him in some way.

Maybe sister needs to put herself in the wife's place and see how she would feel if it were her in that position and what she would want to happen. And, maybe think about how if there had been someone who could/should have warned her would she be where she is now.

Unfortunately, the trouble with warning someone about their 'boyfriend' is it will probably be chalked up to jealousy from an old lover or revenge of some kind and not be taken seriously. But, at least she will know if anything does happen she did try to stop it. If she does nothing, and something does happen, the guilt is partly hers for keeping her mouth shut IMO.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 1:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
I overnighted her some books from amazon like 'The Sociopath Next Door' and 'Lies That Men Tell' and 'Red Flags' etc..

I am very very worried now.


I hope he doesnt 'drop by' and see the books at her place!

Okay, my blunt two cents. There is no easy way out of this situation.

Does she have kids? can she do the old 'I am not going to date for awhile and concentrate on my kids' routine>??

If she is single, no kids- I have a feeling he will just try harder. She has power over him at this point since she knows he is married and she could Mess things up for him.

My suggestion? get her to See a lawyer or a psychologist?? (someone Bound by privacy laws) and tell them everything including names, numbers, car types, licence plate # if she has it, etc. Give them a quick run down of your history, times, dates and get them to seal it incase something should ever happen to your sister.

If he was to be too overzealous after she nicely and quietly breaks it off 'to take a break from dating' and clear her head, then she may have to tell him that she will file a restraining order if he wont leave her alone.

She could also slip in that she has filed information with a professional incase anything ever happened to her.

There are many control freaks and compulsive liars out there. Very very few of them would be dangerous or murderers because we would see much more "scott peterson" type stuff on the news IF there were.

it a rare thing and I think the guy will just shrug it off and move on to his next 'other woman'.

oh and she should definitely NOT make him feel threatened in any way jobwise either. She must say how embarrassing it is for her to find she's been with a married man and just wants it to end.

Anyways, I'm sure I've contradicted myself in this post but hopefully some helpful tidbits can be gleamed out of it LOL

Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 7:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
thanks again for the replies - this is great and i am very appreciative

I do agree that we don't know how what this guy is capable of - maybe this guy would never be violent (I can only pray) - but it is one of those things where you recognize a certain personality type as potentially dangerous and you take it seriously, because there is no way of knowing - I feel that this is what Ann Rule would say here.

And as far as letting the wife know. You know, I think honestly if it were not my sister I might be of the opinion to get the warning out. But I keep coming back to the danger that it might put my sister in if she gives him a revenge motive. I worry about the wife, but I also worry about my sister - you know? Right now the wife is in no imminent danger that we are aware of. If my sister were to expose him, then SHE may well be. Like my mom says, 'why should she be a martyr for the wife's benefit?'

If there is some way to 'safely' or anonymously do this, that might be a good idea. Just not sure who would take it seriously then. Some anon note saying that he is a cheater and a liar? Maybe.. but we are out of state, so I think we would have to drive to his state just to send it.

I would LOVE to get this guy on the radar of authorities to protect ALL future women from him. And maybe it is a good idea to have him checked out. Although if he is cop - I don't think he can have a record?

What sucks is from what we know about him, nothing is not considered a crime. Someone can be pathologically deceptive and ruin people's lives, and the law does not protect society from people like this. You may see the potential for more - we would of course not be surprised if some day this guy did something more - but until they actually make threats, physically assault, steal etc - I am not sure what the law can do.

My family has struggled with whether we ought to put his local chief police officer on notice. Would it help or hurt? We lean towards no, that they may not take it seriously and that angering him this way may not be worth it. But on the other hand, if he's aware that everyone knows about the situation, could it act as a deterrent (in harming my sister/his wife)

I agree that we should try to get all of the info on this guy possible. And enlisting the help of a psychological counselor or private investigator is def not a bad idea.

Oh, btw. He told my sis that his friends 'gave him sh*t' after they had met her and played along with his charade. Which I find rather scary - if he has the ability to manipulate that many people into his schemes - and the recklessness and arrogance it demonstrates. Not to mention that by 'flaunting' her that way, he was treating her like an object basically... and the extreme disrespect that it shows for his wife.

What is also scary is that he had presented a very calculated image all along to my sister that he was the 'good guy' in his crowd.


Sharinia
Member

09-07-2002

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 7:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sharinia a private message Print Post    
oh btw.. my sis has no kids (and has never been married)

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 8:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    

quote:

He hasn't made any threats, but my family is still concerned about her safety.





quote:

My sis recently discovered that the guy she was dating for almost a year & a half is married and a pathological liar.





quote:

He is a cop who possesses a loaded gun. He is very into forensics (taking classes etc). He listens to Eminem (violence & retaliation against women). Scary.




I'm sorry but in reading your first question above I don't see how you and family etc conclude that this man is a sociopath. He lied about being married. Understandable. Ummm so how do you jump from that to sociopath and revenge?? And you want to out him to his wife?

Either there's more to the story or you're going off the deep end. Your sister is a grown woman correct? Frankly all you can do is voice your concerns and let her live her life. And do not go to the wife. That is none of your business and you'd be overstepping your bounds.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 8:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
I agree with the others who say not to say anything to the wife. It serves no purpose in your sister's situation.

IMO, if your sister is scared she should report this situation to the police, just to have it documented somewhere.

Then, she needs to tell this guy that she doesn't want to date someone who is married. Period. What's there to be scared of by doing that? If she is foolish enough to think that this guy will leave his wife for her, AND that he would never hurt her, you'll have to just back off and let her live with her decision.

If you and your family feel your sister is in danger, and she doesn't feel that way, well...like Mocha said, she is an adult and will have to live and learn.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 9:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
<<My family has struggled with whether we ought to put his local chief police officer on notice. Would it help or hurt? We lean towards no, that they may not take it seriously and that angering him this way may not be worth it. But on the other hand, if he's aware that everyone knows about the situation, could it act as a deterrent (in harming my sister/his wife)>>

If you and/or your family gets involved in this, and things turn ugly, then it would be all your fault. You'd be putting your sister in harm's way if you get involved.

<<I agree that we should try to get all of the info on this guy possible. And enlisting the help of a psychological counselor or private investigator is def not a bad idea.>>

Again, this is not YOUR business, it's your sister's. If you're so concerned about "what if he gets angry?" then by doing some sort of covert background check on a COP, you're asking for him to get angry. You think a cop wouldn't eventually find out that he's being checked out? My brother was a cop, and there are no secrets kept from "brothers."

I know I just posted, but having read your last post again, I had to add another 2 cents. If you were talking about your own child, a minor, then the things you are talking about would be pertinent. Just tell your sister about your concerns and hope that she will listen to you. This may very well be much ado about nothing.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 9:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
It's important to note here that if someone is predisposed to be violent, they are most dangerous when their partner chooses to exit the relationship. He seems very self-centered to me (at a minimum) and if at her departure he escalates his behavior, that's a higher risk sign for potential violent behavior.

However, since he has never been violent with her, that's a sign in her favor.

Frankly, if so many of his friends knew, it's doubtful that the wife isn't at least suspicious. She is in a more dangerous position than your sister. In addition, that he introduced her to all his friends without shame also shows a higher level of pathology.

However, at this point, the actual diagnosis doesn't matter, and we can only speculate in order to decide the best and safest exit strategy. The problem is that there are sociopaths in the world, and it is quite possible from his behavior that he is one. Therefore, she should be extremely cautious.

And one thing you should remind your sis if she vascillates on her decision - if he did with ya, he'll do it to ya. Or, past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. In other words, he cheated on his wife and he lied, and no matter what he feels or she does, that's the kind of person he is. That's not the kind of person she needs to be in relationship with. She deserves better!!

I would use all caution, and immediately cut ALL contact. I cannot stress how important it is to have a completely clean break, with no ongoing conversations. If his view of the world is distorted (and to some degree, it is!), he may feel like she is leading him on, giving him hope, and that will only make him more angry (if he has the potential to act out).

A simple "you're married, you lied to me, and your wife, and we are done. Period." will do. No explaining, or ongoing anguish. No long conversations! That will be very difficult for your sis, because it can feel mean, but it really is the best tactic.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to go to any authorities since adultery and lying aren't crimes.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Monday, December 17, 2007 - 9:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Where is this 'violent behavior' coming from?? Has he ever been violent? If not then why are you assuming he will be? He's a married man stepping out on his wife and his friends know and don't care. To me that's not a big deal and certainly not reason to think he's a sociopath.

And how are you going to diagnose someone on he say she say from a msg board??