Author |
Message |
Treasure
Member
06-26-2002
| Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 2:13 pm
Beekind, so sorry for you on the clean up you are left with. I sure hope you are using a mask of some sort while you are doing it. I think that I would get that one bill paid off soonest and then never deal with that company again. Might even pass the word around about them, too. ehehe So glad that you are feeling pretty safe, now.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 3:32 pm
Bee, isn't it kinda freaky awesome, the landscape? When I went out to my dad's the day after the Cedar fire (I couldn't get thru to him on the phone and was worried), I ended up hiking up the road and their driveway. Past burned out trees (some of which still had flames coming out of them). Smoldering manzanita bushes. Everything gray. Not a single solitary living thing except for me. Not a lizard, not a squirrel, not a bird, not even a bee! Freakily eery. And even more eery is when you look at the horizons. It's like someone took a Gillette to 'em and shaved 'em. All of a sudden, you can see the lay of the land. And right now, with a few blackened tree branches silouetted against the sky. We didn't totally lose everything... manzanitas are hardy and some of them came back. Of course, the Cedar fire blew threw so quickly, it almost didn't touch the ground. Some of the live oaks came back, albeit a bit lopsided. And a few sycamores (although most were lost). A lot of annual grasses and other annual bushes have been coming up, too. But the landscape has forever been changed, as has the horizon. Freakily eery. ETA: Now, four years later, if you didn't know, you may NOT know that there'd been a devastating fire. You wouldn't know what used to be there. And unless you started walking around and looking at the ground, noticing the burned bits (branches) that hadn't yet decomposed, you wouldn't know. But four years later, I know, and it still kinda weirds me out to look at the tops of the hills and not have the tops obscured by trees. Or to look down my dad's property to the little creek below, and not see the lush sycamores, swaying in the breeze.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 3:38 pm
I remember those unworldly 'scapes back when a fire burned right up TO Modjeska, years ago when I still lived there And there were no structures lost that time. I'll drive out just to see the canyon at some point, but of course not while access is limited for anyone.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:20 am
Costa...I keep using this word, but it really is the best word for what this is like. It's surreal. It hurt to see the burned and destroyed homes and land, but I do see that it will come back and some day, even if it's fifty years from now, it will be lovely again. And, yes, the landscape has completely changed and is exactly as you said: as if it had been shaved. I do worry about the land slide situation we will be faced with. Looking at the hills, I can see that it will happen, without a doubt. But the one thing I've learned about life, life of all kinds, is that it goes on. Sea...We drove up Modjeska Grade (from Santiago Canyon Road from Cook's) and all the houses on the right, above the valley, were gone. Cars were burned out in driveways. Cages and stalls for critters were melted to piles of blackened metal.Chimneys seemed to stand guard as the only surviving memory of the homes. And there, in the middle, would be a fresh American flag flying, or a huge freshly painted sign thanking the firefighters. It was really quite something to see. I hope you get together with your friends. I think the people out here are so ready for support and comfort and I just know they would welcome you with open arms. If you do, perhaps you could give me a heads up and I could meet with you, too. Cook's has about a hundred firefighter's t-shirts hanging in it right now, and that's quite a sight to see too. The helicopters flew non-stop again today. This has kept me a bit on edge, but each day we make great progress and our home is nearly back to normal. The vibe inside it right now is one of great appreciation and joy, and that certainly helps.
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Tanzanite
Member
06-28-2005
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 2:08 am
Thanks Treasure and Sea for giving me a little CA. geography lesson. I know very little about the lay of the land out that way. When I hear some event is going on in Ca. I immediately think about all you guys and start praying for safety and calm... Even when you all are telling dreadful stories of danger, my interest is piqued because of the language you use to describe what must be picturesque landscapes that exist only in Ca. It always sounds like paradise. I hope everything gets back to normal soon for everyone. Wishing everyone a fun, safe and uneventful weekend!
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Debra
Member
11-20-2003
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 11:58 am
I subscribe to the Governor's email list and just received this Fire Update. To subscribe go to www.gov.ca.gov. ***************** Governor Schwarzenegger Directs State Agencies to Prepare for Forecasted Weekend Winds in Southern California In preparation for the forecasted return of Santa Ana winds beginning this Friday, Governor Schwarzenegger today directed the California National Guard (CNG), California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL FIRE) and Office of Emergency Services (OES) to proactively prepare for a new round of fires in southern California. Under the Governor's direction, these agencies have developed an aggressive, tactical plan to pre-position staff and assets in areas facing a high fire risk, based on weather projected for Friday through Monday. “It’s very important that we remain prepared and alert while there are still fires burning in southern California,” said Governor Schwarzenegger. “This plan helps ensure that resources are strategically placed and standing ready, prepared for whatever the weekend will bring. “Our firefighters have done a tremendous job combating the blazes in southern California. We are grateful for their continued dedication and hard work in protecting our state.” CAL FIRE preparation for the Santa Ana winds threat includes deployment of air tankers, tactical aircraft, helicopters, strike and dispatch teams, and other assets to locations including Ramona, Hemet, Paso, Porterville, Fresno, Victorville, Riverside and San Diego. CAL FIRE will also deploy engine strike teams throughout the state, including San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino, Los Angeles County, Santa Barbara County and Kern County. In addition, OES will position strike teams in Orange and Ventura counties. The CNG will maintain a deployed presence of 1,500 guardsmen and six firefighting helicopters to support ongoing response efforts. The CNG will place additional forces on alert to be recalled if necessary to support future missions. CAL FIRE continues to adjust staffing and equipment patterns in preparation for the weekend. CAL FIRE oversaw the fire resources used to address 22 fires in Los Angeles, Ventura, Orange, San Bernardino, Riverside and San Diego counties that began October 21. Four fires are still burning.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 3:07 pm
Not to belittle the governor or anything, but... The local news here has been reporting a "red flag warning" for the last two days. And they've already got water tankers and helicopters positioned (and double the amount we usually have during the fire season). CalFire hadn't redeployed anyone from this area at all, so all personnel are already here. The only people who left were those who came from places such as Washington State. For those of us who've been faced with this, we're not a fan of politicians coming in and saying they are doing something when it was already done! I'm also really tired of the politicians slapping themselves on the backs and saying "well done". We lost 1000 homes and 7 lives, and another 19 people were injured (some are still on life support). I can't consider that a job well done. A job "better done" than in the past, but that's all... just better.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 4:56 pm
We've got red flag warning as well, and they are still lighting backfires up there in the hills. We've been seeing smoke all day...very large ash falling. I've seen two planes but not one helicopter. Though they have been flying for the last two days, they are not flying today. I just don't get the idea of the backfires they are setting. I mean, why not put it OUT while conditions would allow it instead of burning more and allowing ash and embers to float thru the air. I'm not feeling really good about it, today, as it seems to be heading toward the back end of the canyon now...the part that didn't burn last week.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 5:33 pm
Bee, I was wondering about that, too.. I did read in the Register that they were unable to drop phoscheck (sp) or even water in one big area of Silverado because of the danger of runoff being created from the old silver mines getting into the groudwater (and I assume, polluting drinking water.. somehow I think they implied that there was a flaw in THAT system). Scary.. what happens when they have bad rains? Yeah, I had the same sort of reaction about Arnold.. not that he shouldn't report stuff but that's all we've seen around here all week is that they are staying alert, mopping up, containing, etc., to try to prepare for the winds that were to come. Bee.. I'd love to meet you out there! Or, wherever 
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 5:56 pm
Let me know if you're a'comin', Sea! The only thing I really know about the Silverado situation right now is that Edison has had to come out and dismantle power lines manually because if they just cut all power, it would also cut the water pumps and they wouldn't have water for the fire hoses. Those poor folks from Silverado have been evacuated for 12 days now. That's an awfully long time.
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Watching2
Member
07-07-2001
| Friday, November 02, 2007 - 7:19 pm
Awwwww wow. It's disheartening to hear there's still so much danger. I'm keeping you and all the people out there in my thoughts and prayers.
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Debra
Member
11-20-2003
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 8:50 am
I wasn't trying to get into a political debate - alot of people seem to know how Arnold and politicians are... I just posted it cuz it had alot of info in it. Still saying prayers and thinking good thoughts for you all.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 9:20 am
Thanks for the good thoughts, Debra. We sure can use them.
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Treasure
Member
06-26-2002
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 10:32 am
Hoping that the winds are mild and that no more fires are kicked up. Thank you for keeping us informed on the situation, folks.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 11:41 am
Bee, backfires are set to decrease the amount of damage and to increase the amount of firebreaks within the containment area. The Santiago fire is contained (meaning, they've surrounded the perimeter with breaks). But if the winds kicked up and embers started to blow, areas that have not yet burned would start up. So they'll create a backfire which, essentially, is a controlled burn. Debra, my point was that we were already gearing up with expanded forces. It wasn't news and it particularly wasn't really an update. If you want current updates, it's best to go to local OES or county fire sites. Those organizations work with the resources and help manage dissemination of information, including information to the governor's office. By the time a press release is issued by the governor, it's already been in the local news for a day or two. For updated information on San Diego, see http://www.sdcountyemergency.com/. For updated information on Orange County, see http://www.ocfa.org/. Bee and Sea, I hope it's calm up there. We're having weirdness down here... I guess we've got a mild onshore flow that's fighting with that offshore flow. There are absolutely no winds here where I'm at, not even a gentle breeze (which makes me think those two flows are fighting it out over me! <grin>). At any event, down here, it's not the wind event that's caused the red flag warning. It's the lack of humidity and temps. Both fires are still burning, too (although they ARE contained).
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 11:59 am
Costa...I understand the concept of backfires, however...I firmly believe that if conditions are not optimum they should not be set. If they have plenty of ground and air crews, go for it. But in the specific incident of setting them here, they had NO air crews and minimum ground crew as there were so many other fires going on at the time. Also, the winds were at a peak at that time. Some of these backfires are what actually threatened some of the homes in this area. It just seems to me that fires should be put OUT, not started if conditions are not close to perfect for setting them. Now, I am not a firefighter and I do not understand all the intricacies of doing this, but I do know that at the time these were set, they could have been put out instead and then held at bay rather than creating a much larger area of burn which ended up "out of control" and caused damage. Make sense?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 3:19 pm
I know there were some backfires that "got away" and you always do wonder about those.. Debra, I agree that there was lots of info in that newsletter and of course it depends on the audience. Costa and I and some others happened to be in the area so of course we are updated more often and at a more detail level if we seek that out (but it is still front page news in our local paper) I remember when the fires were aroun Big Bear awhile back and Dovez had to evacuate, I was able to find some sources of info from the area and from what I heard, those evacuated were quite frustrated that what was being reported "down the hill" was just so inaccurate and so outdated. But it is still interesting to see what the politicians are putting out there. The local ones are having pissing contests in op ed and letters to the editor here, for sure..
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 7:00 pm
When they work (and they do occasionally get out of control), a backfire allows the firefighting crew to "control" the blaze. They'll have set up a defensible perimeter which THEY control, rather than having the fire go all willy nilly wherever IT wants to go. Think of it like a football game. You've got a row of linebackers all set to tackle a runner. They've got a defensible perimeter. But if the QB decides to throw a pass, they've lost their perimeter, and they've lost control. (That's a bad analogy but you get the point.) Backfires are used all the time, and they ARE used when conditions are not optimum. They ARE used when they've established a line of defense, they are NOT used just for the heck of it. They are also used to burn up the fuel that the wildfire itself is trying to consume, which then sort of forces the blaze to go out (no fuel, no fire). For example, assume that you have an advancing wildfire in a forested area, and ahead of it is several miles of flammable brush, after which there is a large natural fire break of some sort (this could be a large river, for example). Rather than letting the fire rage out of control, firefighters will set backfires, so that brush is burned before the wildfire gets to it. The firefighters have controlled the fire, the direction it can go, and the amount of fuel it can consume. There is a whole lot of science behind fighting fires, and working with my dad during these past fires I learned a lot. Yes, they sometimes underestimate things, but that is due more to the capriciousness of Mother Nature. When they do it right, they end up with the upper hand, the backfire meets the oncoming wildfire head-on, and then the entire thing burns itself out. And this can happen even during less than optimal conditions. I honestly would never second guess what those on the front lines are doing. They are trained to manage and then put out fires. (I'm not saying you're doing that, I'm just trying to explain that there is so much more to it than just aiming a hose at a flame.)
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 7:03 pm
Oh yeah, Sea... the local papers are still full of fingers being pointed at each other here, along with some back-patting. Like, we've got a frickin' Marine base right here and why weren't the Marine helicopters aloft (meanwhile the few Navy helicopters still around were?). Some pols are taking credit for some things that were done right, and I don't think they actually did anything except yell the loudest when things were going wrong. <sigh>
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 9:07 pm
The people who had long been evacuated from Silverado Canyon were allowed back home yesterday. Now, just hope they get to stay there!
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Treasure
Member
06-26-2002
| Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 10:33 pm
That is such good news! I know those folks must be over the top to go home. It has been a very long time for them. I take it the winds this weekend were nothing to be concerned about after all.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Monday, November 05, 2007 - 8:40 am
13 Days. I went over to "Camp Silverado" (set up in the Albertson's parking lot in Orange) on Friday and it was really rough on them. Yes, they had food and stuff available to them, but they still didn't really know much about what was going on and were becoming more and more disheartened. I was SO happy for them when I heard they could go home late Saturday evening. We have very little wind and the air defense has been flying pretty much non-stop since I got back home, which was Monday. That fire was a nasty one, to be sure. But I think they've got it now. Now, of course, we are wondering what course of action to take to prevent major mudslides. Never a dull moment in California.
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Treasure
Member
06-26-2002
| Monday, November 05, 2007 - 9:59 am
Very glad to read the winds didn't materialize and the planes kept flying. And yes, next come the mudslides. I will keep hoping that they aren't too sever. But with all these fires, there are way to many areas for the mudslides to happen. Not a good outlook.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Monday, November 05, 2007 - 11:53 am
Bee, check with your local authorities. I know free sandbags are available everywhere, but they can also explain how to place them so that they protect your home (if not your property). For example, many people don't realize that placing a sandbag near your door doesn't do diddly... water will just go over the sandbag and then it ends up trapped inside! You have to know the direction wanter will take, and then lay the sandbags in order to "force" the water away from your home. We just need to hope that we get some rain, but that really slow annoying drizzle that'll take a whole day to get a 1/4" of rain on the ground! Treasure, this weekend was kinda a kick. All the news about red flag warnings and beefed up firefighting power, and then... nothing. Even the winds in our backcountry were not much to be bracing for, and humidity levels never dropped to the single digits. Of course, I'd rather they forecast something like that and have it NOT happen, but it's kinda funny, the much ado about nothing. I was glad to hear the Santiago folks were allowed back in. Bad news here... looks like one more person may have died as a direct result of the fires (a border crosser). And for the kinda odd news of the day... turns out that the evacuation of approx. 515,000 people here in San Diego county is the largest single evacuation. Katrina had more people evacuating, but it was over a period of several days. We had all these people evacuating on one day, that Monday. That's a LOT of people to move around. Heck, I bet some of y'all don't even have that many people living in your home towns! <BIG grin>
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Monday, November 05, 2007 - 12:17 pm
Costa...I've been sandbagging my property for twenty years. Trust me...I know all about sandbagging. lol What I am talking about is the Cleveland National Forest, which butts up to and surrounds our properties. It is completely burned out. We can't very well go out there and sand bag that! There are serious and legitimate concerns that walls of mud as high as 25-50 feet filled with boulders could come crashing down. A sand bagged barrier will not stop that.
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