Author |
Message |
Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:09 pm
I was just speculating. We don't know the whole story because we weren't there.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:11 pm
And lets not forget she as a parent is the one who instilled values in her children, so how do you explain her twenty something daughter being a stripper and marrying a 90 year old guy for his money. Dont think I would want her providing hte moral compass for any child. Sorry, that baby's best shot is with Birkhead and only supervised visits with grandma.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:13 pm
By 20 you know right from wrong. How old do you have to be before blaming your parents for the crap you pull doesn't fly anymore?
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:18 pm
i am not even talking about how Virgie may or may not have raised Anna, I am referring to how Virgie never failed to try to capitalize on her fame/fortune after she was grown. The things she tried to pull while Anna was married to Marshall are legend around here. And frankly, right or wrong, her choice of attorney just confirms my opinion of her. She picked a notoriously sleazy attorney to do her bidding.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:27 pm
Escapee, I'm not sure how that applies to a mother who 'parties' with her children. Should Anna have risen above it? Perhaps. But Anna is gone, and Virgie is still a mom who partied with her, and certainly did not help her learn to be proud of who she was, and do the right thing. Even her behavior today, as Annie points out, confirms that she has learned nothing from having lost a daughter and grandson. Virigie is all about Virgie, nothing new there. And that's part of what was so damaging to the children she raised, she cared about herself more than she did about them. I still have to giggle at her Bahamian lawyer a few months ago saying that Virgie was an excellent example of a stable family life. Huh? Four husbands? Or five? That's stable??
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Sia
Member
03-11-2002
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:35 pm
GaL, you make a good point about Anna possibly resenting any possible interference from her mother in regard to her drug use; I didn't think about that. I just know that I found it extremely disturbing to see Virgie cry crocodile tears at Anna's funeral and then furiously shoveling dirt onto the coffin and then, like NativeTexan pointed out, stomping all over the grave. Has Virgie's behavior been addressed or analyzed by the media? Has she ever been publicly questioned about what she intended by doing that? I find that confusing and disturbing. New question: who is funding Virgie Arthur's attempts to gain custody of Dannielynn? How can she afford to fly repeatedly to the Bahamas in order to appear in court? Being suspicious by nature, I can't help but feel she is borrowing against what she is hoping will be her future millions in order to secure a place in the life of a granddaughter who would be better off without her. JMO.
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Hypermom
Member
08-13-2001
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:35 pm
I hope Virgie does not get custody. I'll take Anna's word over Virgie's any day. I have, not once, heard VA take any blame for part in anything. It still bothers me that less than 24 hours after Anna died, Virgie was on TV. It also bothered me that she played Anna's message about Daniel's death to the media. Sorry, I still believe that she only wants money....especially having O'Quinn as one of her attorneys. IMO
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Hypermom
Member
08-13-2001
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:37 pm
Sia, her attorneys have been asked, and they dance around the question. She has been living in the Bahamas for weeks now. Also, she has an attorney bill from the Bahamas that, to my knowledge, she has not paid. Those attorneys dropped her.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:43 pm
Sia - Answer: Splash TV. Of course, Virgie swears that the guy from Splash is a 'close, personal friend', who just happens to provide her airline transport, limos, and a nice stay at the quite pricey Atlantis resort while she's 'stuck' in the Bahamas. The other answer is yes, the attornies (much like Debra Opri in Larry B's case) are planning a big payoff when their client gets custody and Daniellynn becomes wealthy.
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Sia
Member
03-11-2002
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:01 pm
This might open up a whole brand new can of worms, but I will open it anyway! A high school friend of mine and I were talking about the ANS saga a week or so ago, and she told me that some of her church friends just didn't get what she was saying and scolded her for being insensitive because, "After all, ANS is a person and all people are important to God." Let me back up: My 8-yr-old daughter was confused by the TOTAL media saturation of ANS coverage immediately following her death. Lauren asked me,"Mommy, why is Anna Nicole Smith so important?" I answered, "Honey, she isn't important in the sense that she isn't famous for having done anything wonderful for society or for having discovered anything or invented anything. She is important to the news reporters because she has the potential of being worth a half-billion dollars some day if she wins her court case and the media is most interested in money. I don't respect Anna Nicole because of the ways in which she made her living and she wasn't a person that I'd want you to want to be like. She became famous for taking off her clothes and having her picture taken, for marrying a rich dirty old man and for having a TV show on which she was really drunk and vulgar. Mommy has no respect for those things. She wasn't important, but she was famous." Well, Janet repeated what I had told my daughter to her church friends and they were just all over her. They would not listen to her. IMO, there is a difference between being important and being famous--or, in this case, infamous. What do you all say? I was not negating ANS's importance or value as a human being. Every human has equal value as a human life. I just meant that she hadn't made a lasting, POSITIVE contribution to society. Yes, I feel sorry for the life she had before she had wealth, but I'm even sorrier that once she had money that she still didn't have happiness and that she just destroyed herself with drugs. What a waste of a human life. She was a beautiful woman, and I believe she loved her children. She just could have done more with her life than be a pin-up girl in life and, in death, a poster-child for the evils of drug abuse.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:05 pm
Sia, I can agree with almost everything except for calling Mr. Marshall a 'dirty' old man.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:15 pm
I don't see why an older man with a younger woman is "dirty" or for that matter why an older woman with a younger man is "dirty". Why must age always be a factor? What is dirty about it any more than some woman who finds a guy attractive partly because he has a hot body?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:21 pm
Sia, I don't fault you for trying to instill values and a sense of appropriate behavior in your daughter. At the same time, I do think the biblical story of Christ is one about not judging. It's sometimes hard to find just the right way to live that non-judging with instilling values, isn't it? We have no way of really understanding what life was like for ANS, and/or why she made the choices she did. Life sometimes has a way of reinforcing our most negative behaviors, and while it is easy to say that we would never do what she did, we all know people who have been addicted; and some who have not been able to beat their addictions. Perhaps her meaningful positive contribution IS being a poster child for the evils of drug addiction. Perhaps someone looking at her untimely death and the death of her son will take pause and check into rehab? God loves addicts too, I sincerely believe that. And I sincerely believe that only God knows the pain in Anna's heart and the things she experienced that might have lead her to her addictions, to money, to sex, and to drugs. When I spoke with my son about this issue, it wasn't to tell him that I didn't want him to do drugs, altho I certainly don't. But NO child grows up saying I want to be an addict when I grow up. What does happen is people don't find effective ways of dealing with their pain, their self esteem issues, and often they have too many people in life who love and reward them for doing the wrong thing. It's seductive to anyone, and most people don't travel that road with intent, they slide into it. For anyone who has struggled to break those addictions, I would hope that we would be careful before we say "don't be like them". No, we don't want our children to grow up that way, but those who have struggled, and who are struggling don't deserve to be held up as bad examples either.
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Sia
Member
03-11-2002
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:25 pm
Okay, now I've opened yet another can of worms, LOL. Like Don Imus, I am being prejudiced and inappropriate--even shameful-- because I used a label that is now considered not politically-correct. A "dirty old man" is the term used in my family, in my socio-economic class, in my neighborhood, among my friends and peers, for an elderly man who marries a much-much younger woman with whom he cannot possibly have a real marriage. Assuming that I have the right of free speech, am I not free to make an ass of myself by showing my ignorance and prejudice through my choice of words? A dirty old man is an elderly filthy-rich (is that inappropriate, too?) "gentleman" who entered a ti++y-bar in a freakin' WHEELCHAIR to ogle topless nubile young women. He paid her for lap-dances, no? That fits my definition of a dirty old man. I'm not politically correct. And that's okay by me.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:29 pm
So, does that mean all men that go to these bars are dirty? Or is there an age limit?
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:34 pm
I can't say my opinion of ol' man Marshall is much different, Sia. But then again, my husband probably hopes he has the gumption and the funds to wheel himself into a strip bar and buy lap dances when he's 80, too. Boys will be boys, regardless of their ages LOL.
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Watching2
Member
07-07-2001
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:37 pm
LOL GAL & Sia. I was thinking about what I heard on a show last night that he frequented "adult clubs" all the time. I might even use that term myself and be politically incorrect with you. I might even call a younger guy dirty just not call him old... "dirty thoughts." That's a term that was used in my family, too. BTW - My parents are 83 and 90, so they used A LOT of words none of us would think of using and the things my grandma would say... YIKES! She was a total sweetheart, but used words that were common for "her time" and I still kind of cringe thinking of some of them. She also had to quit school after the 7th grade to help support her family. She was born in 1899. BTW - I think the freqency in which a man attends one of those clubs would influence whether I might think he had "dirty thoughts." LOL I sure don't just folks who go to some of the clubs to have a little "fun" once in a great while. 
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Sia
Member
03-11-2002
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:40 pm
My kids don't need Anna Nicole as a poster-child against the evils of substance abuse. They live in a house with their biological father, an alcoholic. And I hate him for it. And I hate myself even more for staying here and subjecting my children to life with an alcoholic. And, Karuuna, you're level-headed and kind and fair, and I admire that. You're right: Jesus teaches us to not be judgmental--if you want to accept that lesson. Jesus doesn't judge us for being human, for being fallible, he doesn't hold it against us. But I'm not Jesus, and I'm not even Christ-like. I'm human, and I AM judgmental. I do judge ANS for being a bad example. She had the financial wherewithal to get herself out of her addictions, no matter what pain she carried in her heart. I do not have that luxury. Marilyn Monroe should have been enough of a poster-child against the evils of addiction (except that I don't think she took an overdose on her own; I believe that she was murdered, but that has no bearing her, as public perception, for the most part, is that she died by accidental overdose at her own hand). When I was growing up Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland and Karen Ann Quinlan were just a few of the examples of what mixing drugs and alcohol can do to a life--or to end a life.
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Watching2
Member
07-07-2001
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:43 pm
Sadly, my kids are old enough to see the evils of drug abuse in some of their friends. 
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:49 pm
Sia, well, no one called you those terms but you. This goes back to the Bachlorettes being ho's, and the Bachelor being something I don't want to read. He wasn't any more vile than she, they found each other, and no matter what we may think of it, they found some kind of happiness together. I say, good for them. What makes a marriage 'real' anyway? Who gets to say? I would hope that when I am in a wheelchair, I am still interested in sex too, altho I wouldn't frequent those kinds of bars. As I said above, it's so easy to say we wouldn't this, or we wouldn't that, but then we weren't raised like ANS, and I don't know about the rest of you, I don't look like her either! All I know is that I have made enough terrible mistakes in my life that I am not willing to 'cast the first stone', or any stone at all.
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Sia
Member
03-11-2002
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:52 pm
Scooterrific, "dirty old man" is a term with a long history of use in the good old USA. It's a phrase. I don't mean dirty in the sense that the guy needs a bath, I mean dirty in the sense that the guy has impure thoughts of performing sexual acts with a woman or women to whom he is not married. The younger men who frequent adult clubs are "dirty" in the same way. I believe pornography is an evil in the world. Adult entertainment, whether in printed form (magazines), available on-line or in person at so-called adult clubs is morally wrong. To answer your question, simply, yes, all men who go to those bars are "dirty," regardless of age. There just hasn't been a phrase coined yet, that I'm aware of, to label the younger guys with. Feel free to make one up, and I'll use it. What do you feel would be a less-offensive thing to call the late Mr. Marshall? If "dirty old man" is off the table, I will throw out "sexually-inappropriate-minded geriatric human male" as a possible substitute. Does adding more syllables to a term make it less offensive in some way?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:57 pm
(((( Sia )))) Don't judge yourself too harshly. We each have to make our own decisions about what is best for our own situation. I guess that's my point, we really don't know what's going on in someone else's heart and life enough to judge them harshly. Yes, we can call them on behavior that's destructive, and we should. But with kindness and gentleness and compassion, I hope. I think we are called to be Christlike, to live as he did. In fact, he even told the disciples that he expected them to do 'even greater things' than he had done. It's one of those tough things again, to not judge ourselves harshly, but not give up too easily on what we could be either. Money doesn't buy your way out of addiction, sadly. Addiction does not discriminate by socioeconomic class. In fact, money itself can be the addiction, there's never enough.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:01 pm
So everyone who has sex or even thinks about sex and isn't married is dirty by your definition? That's an awful lot of people, but of course, you have every right to your opinion.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:03 pm
It seemed to be a rather symbiotic relationship between Mr. Marshall and Anna Nicole. She got money, and maybe even felt cared for, who knows. Mr. Marshall got a pretty woman on his arm in his declining years. I doubt it was a marriage in the traditional sense, maybe they never even consumated it. Regardless, it seemed to work for both of them. I have always felt that Anna Nicole was surrounded by false friends, although some probably honestly liked her as a person. Using someone for their money is wrong, but again...symbiotic and beneficial to all parties. I highly doubt Anna Nicole was able to tell real friends from false ones, and I also don't believe she had a clue as to the seriousness of her addictions. Having lost her son, it is completely logical to me that she spent her last months on Earth in a deep depression. Whether she took drugs of her own volition, or whether she was "fed them" by others, we will never know. My only hope is that she will rest in peace, that she and her son will find each other on another plane, and that her baby girl will be raised by the best person possible and will be told how much her mother loved her. I think she was actually very happy with her new baby, but the death of her son made it impossible for her to cope with life on Earth. RIP, Anna Nicole
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:08 pm
gosh, i thought the term 'dirty old man' was commonly used. i've heard it all my life and it has been used to mean any male lusting after any female. in fact, i call my dh a DOM sometimes when he lusts after me!
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