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Archive through June 25, 2007

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jul. 2007 ~ Sept. 2007: Health Center (ARCHIVES): Knee pain-: Archive through June 25, 2007 users admin

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Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 1:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
second pt session today and ouch ouch ouch--she said it will hurt for a bit but that its all to help loosen my knee up right now its soo tight that its not funny--she also put my on the bike for 5 minutes today--i feel like a baby i gues to do 45 ont he ellipitical a year ago and can only do 5 minutes now because of the pain.. :-(

Msbullwnkl
Member

08-16-2005

Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 6:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Msbullwnkl a private message Print Post    
I stumbled on this thread tonight. I am a long time lurker. I can totally symnpathize with all that has been said.

I have been dealing with a bone bruise that my physical therapists bumped me out of PT for over a month ago. The morning of my follow-up with my doctor, I find out that the doctor dropped me from the practice. So here I am four months after the pain first started in PT with no doctor, no medicine and no relief. Whoever said it earlier, being in constant pain stinks!

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Friday, June 22, 2007 - 12:11 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
the physio told you stuff from the report, so I am assuming they are basing their treatment plan ON the presumption that it is exclusively your knee.

I've had a few physios who werent very thorough. Hope this person checked your range of motion out.... complete body.

Being in the medical field AND having tons of experience with Multiple practioners of ALL fields, I've found that once a theory has been written down most practioners will focus exclusively on that premise.

Regardless if it is correct.

crossing my fingers for ya. But I am really surprised that you would be told to ride a bike on your SECOND session after six months of pain.

that puts up major alarm bells in my mind.

Like the physio who made me worse after a shoulder injury by giving me an exercise which caused further injury. (should never have been given it at my early stage according to a Better physio)

I never could take Ultrasound due to the increased swelling due to the vibrations. Now LASER is the way to go, in my opinion. It relieves swelling and penetrates around half an inch into your body to promote healing.

Keep up with the Updates. I'm dying to find out how long it takes for you to feel Better! Or maybe just ANY positive change would make us all happy LOL

Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Friday, June 22, 2007 - 9:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
at my eval meeting she mainly checked out my knee who difficult it was to move the knee cap --etc and took measurements and then did the ultrasound treatment--

in checkign my knee she measured how far it could bend (or not bend) how strong my leg was--(she held it i had to press on it etc) but that's about it..

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 10:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
may I suggest mobility testing on back legs ankles well.....I had full body done to gauge how well treatment was working.

Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 11:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
==i'll mentionit--keep the ideas coming!

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 6:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
My knees swell up and it feels like their are tight bandages around them. Also I can't get up from a sitting position easily or without some stiffness and pain. Sigh.

Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 2:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
mame are you doing anything for it(i think you posted in my member folder as well. for me I lack the confidence that p.t. or a least this p.t. place/person will help mine--tonight I am actually in much more pain than I have been in weeks...

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 4:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I got my MRI on Friday.

First of all, the injection site for the contrast dye was right in the sore part of my shoulder. So not fun! It's still hurting a bit and it's been two days.

Second of all, geez, did I HATE THE MRI!!!! I had to wait an hour, in a gown and freezing, cause the old guy ahead of me apparently kept moving and they couldn't get a clear image. On the plus side, I got to ask the nurses who were doing the injection some questions, and realized that the more still you are the faster it'll be over with.

BUT IT WASN'T OVER WITH FAST ENOUGH!! OK, I get a bit of claustrophobia. And I really can't sit still. So I have two strikes. Thank gawd I know yoga and self-hypnosis. I could isolate my left arm and shoulder and hand, and that was the ONLY part that was relaxed while the imaging was going on. During the imaging, I couldn't manage a self-hypnosis, and I couldn't regulate my breathing, but I could count. And count I did. Even, counting seemed to help. Although the six minute scan? I didn't think I was going to make it. I really thought I was gonna have to bail.

Anyways, I've gotta call my ortho guy tomorrow to schedule a follow up appt to see what the scans show. <sigh>

Really, I never wanna do that again! Ack!

(Although, the doc and nurses doing the injection were really cool and moved the x-ray screen into my field of vision so I could watch the dye going in and moving around. That was really kinda cool!)

Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 5:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
good luck costa! I didn't have the dye injected but it sure is hard to sit still--I had to have the six minute one repeated--not cause i moved it just wasn't that good a pic--but I was glad it was over--I watched the timer on the machine diligently--LOL--but even with the earphones on--dang that sound of the machine is loud!! The woman before me was very claustrophobic and i kept thinking oh god i hope i am NOT(i never have been but you never know)--and i wasn't in the least but i can definitely see wher people would be. Especially if the xray is up higher like yours was--at least mine i had my upper chest free of the machine..

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 6:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I didn't have a timer. I didn't have headphones. I had my eyes closed and the danged magnets banging around in my head!!! (The earplugs barely helped!)

I was completely enclosed from the knees up. And although only my shoulder was weighted down so it would be immobile, it still was very weird. I kept trying to remind myself... I could do a tanning bed and it wasn't that much of a problem once I got used to it. Of course, I had headphones with music and didn't have some machine doing a whacky rhythm on me!

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 7:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
expect the old 'you will feel pain as it is getting better' routine blurb that they say!

personally I still think that the bike was ridiculous on the second appt.

Suggestion....Penetrating Laser. Find a physio that has one.

Ultrasound shakes up the area, good for people with things out of place.

Heat (adds swelling)

strengthening exercises good.....if your mobility is flexible and your area isnt immobilized with scartissue swelling.

Sorry if I'm adding to the negativity but I've only had two good physios thru the years. one hurt me so bad that my ankle ligaments tore within four hours of the second appt.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 7:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Heat and ultrasound can also relax muscles that tense up near the pain site. This can relieve pain and can help to increase movement. Each person is going to be different, and what works for one may not work for another. I found ultrasound to be very effective for a neck injury, and it was helpful to some extent immediately after my accident (on my shoulder). Ultrasound also resolved some of the problem I had with my hip right after my accident.

A combination of traditional and non-traditional therapies also worked for me. I had good luck with IMT (integrative manual therapy) and less luck with traditional PT (once I plateaued).

I can see how a bike would be something... it sounds like the PT is trying to strengthen muscles in the leg. Which may help referred pain in the knee.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 10:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Nancy if you have no faith in the pt place, it may be time to try another one, IF you've given them a fair shake.

As for me, I try to take an NSAID anti-inflamatory every morning. It's also helpful if I take it at night, then I don't wake up with swollen hands and knees. But I don't like to take too many of them, so I try to just take them in the morning to get me through the day.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 11:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
I wont go to anyone who doesnt have a Laser.

It is the most noninvasive treatment that can be done with the BEST benefits (my opinion only)

I swell up so easily and have nerve pain that even Massage therapy is out.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 12:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Costa ACK on the MRI!! The noises are SO strange, but I've only had knee MRIs twice, so just went in feet first, never head first and no dye. Sounds like no fun. I had a hard time staying still because the position really stressed my back. (I once had a bone density scan done where they positioned my lower back pelvis in a VERY painful way.. that was bad, but at least no MRI knocking.)
Heat vs Cold depends on what is wrong.. if there is inflammation, the heat may not be the right thing as more swelling can add to the pain but sometimes heat feels good. I've always ended up with icing and electrical stimulation at the PT (for knee injury with no surgery, then knee post surgery and then for shoulder/rotator cuff with no surgery).

The first PT, a sports injury specialist, at first would ice before AND after working on me. I didn't go on machines for a couple of sessions except for the shuttle thing.

After knee surgery, different PT place and he did have me on a bike right away.

For the shoulder, again, different place, they had me on the "bike" hand pedal thing.

I have a script for PT for Cervical Spine but have been hesitating. Ultrasound sounds nice :-)

Laser sounds interesting too. I need to call I guess. I would want to go back to the place where I did the shoulder work. Loved the people there and they always had great goodies to eat :-)

Nancy, you don't sound at all pleased with that PT.. I'd be thinking of a switch. Or if you think it is the particular PT, maybe find out his or her day off and start going that day, then sort of ease over to a different one..

Costa, hope they figure something out for your pain.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 2:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
I found the vibrations from ultrasound extremely uncomfortable. But i have hypersensitivity so I know its just 'me'.

yes, my specialists encourage icing/iceing.

((I only wish that there was pain medication that doesnt have sideeffects. I'm impaired cognitively enough, to add a drug...not good))

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I didn't think Nancy didn't sound pleased with her PT at all. I think others said the things being done weren't right, but how do you know they weren't right for HER? I thought she was just reporting on her PT sessions, and mentioned that that last one hurt! (I hate ouches, too!)

That said, there are different therapists and two therapists in the same office can be entirely different. When I went thru the alternative IMT therapy, I found that one of the women in there seemed to really help whereas I felt tense with the other one. So I always scheduled my appts with the one woman I liked, if I could.

BTW, y'all should check out CENTER FOR IMT. I know it's not nationwide, but if there's a facility near you, it may be worth checking out. It *is* a bit alternative (feels like the "laying on of hands" but it is centered around ancient philosophies and it did help me.

Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 1:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
I got my mri report in the mail today--its got somethings listed that no one mentioned to me..

1) i have small effusion--small multilococulated popliteal cyst --diffuse thining of the cartilage medial and lateral compartments--full thicknes chondral defect measuring 6mm by 10 mm--the meniscus is diminished insize--they suspect the chondral defect is condromalicia patellas but hard to confirm--what the arthroscope would do is determine why the meniscus is diminished in size.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 2:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Nancy I sure hope that came with ENGLISH translations!?! Yipe!

Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 2:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
lol nope :-) off to google--the only thing i understand is the cyst and a slight sprain which makes no sense LOL

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
WOW! That was a lot of info! I can't wait to see my results... I wonder if they'll have as much info.

When you translate it all, come back and let us know the ENGLISH version! :-)

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 4:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Hmm, interesting, Nancy.

I had a torn meniscus in addition to needing an ACL replacement and they grafted in cadaver cartilege.. something like that might help cushion things. The cyst, ACK.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 4:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
Nancy, I'm sorry to read about your knee problem. I am off with a back injury right now, but I have worked in Physical Therapy for about 14 years and I want to talk to you just for a minute (shhh...no one else will read this...)

Sunshyne, I know from reading your posts over the years that you have a lot of medically related knowledge. I am sure everyone appreciates words from your experiences, but I do have to quote you in order to help Nancy understand some things. Please don't be offended, but some things need clarification. Since you are not licensed in the field of Physical Therapy, you have to be careful with using knowledge gleaned from other sources to "diagnose" and offer treament suggestions to others. I will not engage in any arguments about what I am saying. I have over 150 credit hours in the health sciences, PT specifically, so I pretty much know what I'm talking about.

...I am really surprised that you would be told to ride a bike on your SECOND session after six months of pain... ...that puts up major alarm bells in my mind.
While pain relief is generally uppermost for the first few visits to physical therapy, you are 6 months into this pain. Your pain wouldn't be considered "acute," but rather, "chronic." This doesn't alarm me in the least. You didn’t tell us how long you rode the bike, nor whether there was any resistance applied. It does promote fluidity and sometimes we do things so we can observe HOW the patient moves. I do question what took your Orthopedist so long to recommend therapy.

I never could take Ultrasound due to the increased swelling due to the vibrations. Now LASER is the way to go, in my opinion. It relieves swelling and penetrates around half an inch into your body to promote healing.

Ultrasound can penetrate multiple inches. It's benefit arises from the proper selection of method. We can use either pulsed or non-pulsed, various sized transducer heads, high or low frequencies, yadda yadda. There ARE protocols which have been used for decades, successfully. Of course there are a few patients whose responses are not “standard.” That happens.

may I suggest mobility testing on back legs ankles well.....I had full body done to gauge how well treatment was working.

First of all, I don’t know what Sun means by “full body mobility testing.” If the patient is referred for knee pain, we treat the knee. Initially, there are specific tests which generally isolate the problem area. Gait analysis is a useful tool to assess whether the hip or foot plays a role in the knee injury. Maybe in Canada the patient has a right to ask for, or is provided this “fully body mobility testing” that Sun speaks of. In the United States, Physical Therapists receive referrals from physicians. We are not free to do what we want. I’m not saying we can’t request authorization for further testing and/or treatments, but the physician guides the therapy for the most part. They generally defer to the PT, but we can’t administer treatments at will.

Ultrasound shakes up the area, good for people with things out of place

As I stated above, I will not argue with your statements. All I will say is that I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about with this comment. Ultrasound is not used to “shake things” although the deep heating is generated by the vibratory nature of the sound waves.

strengthening exercises good.....if your mobility is flexible and your area isnt immobilized with scartissue swelling

Strengthening exercises are always good, whether there is good mobility or not. Children and adults with, for example, Cerebral Palsy, do not have good mobility of their joints. We certainly DO address strengthening every chance we have. Scar tissue impingement and immobility are not contraidicators for strengthening.

Nancy, Chondromalcia patella is also known as a runner’s knee or patellofemoral syndrome. A lot of times it is due to misalignment of the patella (kneecap). I know from previous experience with my own, that it is very painful! Sometimes it’s as if you knelt on a sharp rock or something. Your PT can give you stretching and strengthening exercises which should help to realign your patella. I’d think they’ll work on either your VMO (Vastus Medialis Oblique, it’s a muscle on the inside of your knee) or your IT band (Illeotibial Band, runs on the outside of your thigh).


PT is sometimes referred to as "pain and torture." A large number of patients will tell you that it hurts sometimes at PT. All of a sudden they'll report relief. We are addressing areas where you have pain, and you probably learn ways of compensating to diminish that pain. We open that right back up when we have you do things the "right way." There isn't really a way around that, but generally, anti inflammatories will help you get through that rough spot.

Nancy
Member

08-01-2000

Monday, June 25, 2007 - 4:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nancy a private message Print Post    
it was 5 minutes on the bike and absolutely no resistance. she did assess my gait and also how i walked up and downstairs(she heard the knee pop)--for exercise right now its just been leg lifts with tightening the front muscle on the thigh for20x

quad sets where i tighted my thigh muscle while pushing my knee down(20 times)

and leaning against a wall and stretching my calf muscle so really very basic stuff.

the therapist told me that my kneecap is very very tight and that's what they are working on right now to get that to loosen up they are hoping once its loosened and with strengthening it will help keep my knee aligned so i don't feel that bone on bone feeling.