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Archive through May 28, 2007

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Apr. 2007 ~ Jun. 2007: Hairball Haven (ARCHIVES): Cats (ARCHIVES): Archive through May 28, 2007 users admin

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Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 8:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Thanks CD!!! Me, too!

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 2:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
I wonder why they don't use the ultrasounds for REAL emergencies? Just for pregnant critters? How odd.

its Canada!

we are like that with Human Equipment and testing as well. a few years ago our province had TWO MRI machines for approximately four million people. Ill people would have to travel 8 hrs to come have an MRI on the mainland.

***
Whiskers update. this is the second day that he hasnt peed on a wall or any other object that catches his eye. Two pees nicely in the box this am again.

So if I hadnt taken him in to the vet, I'd think it was only behavioural cause now he seems fine.

Saw a fourth vet for this Peeing problem and she gave me Liquid Abx for his infection. Blood results were barely abnormal and his anemia was the same as the last time he was done a few years ago after he was treated for that bad bleed.

A vet has never suggested new blood work, even this draw was all my idea.

anyways, will be on the meds and will be reassessed in a week. i have no idea why as if they cant see anything now, they didnt for the last few years, they wont in a week.

Whiskers has a dark cracked canine tooth. I brought him in special trip a few years back as i thought he may have an abscess or infection which was causing him distress...and causing agitation thus the occ'l pee in the house. I was poo poo'd and told his teeth were fine, nothing to worry about.

This vet immediately commented on his black tooth, said it was irritated at the gum (LIKE USUAL I might add!) and that it could be causing him trouble.

you know, what can I do? I try but when I am dismissed I cant keep blowing $$$ seeing vets who just want repeat visits.

I will be buying my own Dipstix for urine screening. Heck, I used to do full physiological testing since 81'. I'm fully qualified to do the exams myself IF I had the equipment.

But you can buy dipstix almost anywhere these days. Will keep track of his protein, ph and WBCs myself.

oh final comment, vet doesnt know what is causing Incr. wbc ct in the urine.

could be something as simple as stress...NOT an infection. they forgot to give me my copies so I dont remember what his blood WBC ct is. however, if it is chronic then the actual value is unimportant.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 6:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Costa has slight gingivitis in his back teeth. But the vet said (as she always does), that we'll just keep an eye on it. Because of his cardiomyopathy, getting general anesthesia isn't recommended.

Rock, hard place, meet Costa! How the heck do you deal with a cat's bad tooth if the can't can't go under? (Same problem with Whiskers, yes?)

Taterheadtwo
Member

09-29-2005

Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 6:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Taterheadtwo a private message Print Post    
hi all i need some advice , are if one of you have expereinced know what to do?

i have 3 cats, three divas . the oldest and youngest are similar in body type, attitude and attivities ( like to run and jump go to high places ),( they have bodies long and lean /like a panther ).
the middle cat i got form a pets mart , she was just talking up a storm to any that came by her cage ( was about 6 kittens but she was front and center and just wanted to be petted ) she also was missing some of her teeth and have two deep wounds , petsmart didnt know?? ( make you wonder,lol ) well shes a swetheart, but over the last two years she is obese, likes to eat [ i have 3 different dry foods and put out at least once a day a wet can food , have 4 water bowls throughout my small apartment, and three litterboxes , which they all use which one they want, no favorites? ] well she is obese and doesnt play are cant climb are jump as high as the others , she likes to , sigh wait till im napping are wantingt to sleep and then she will bring me a toy and meow till i get up and go hide it again so she can search for it. she will also meow non stop for a half hour throughout the day wanting something different to eat,lol ( and i have tried amny different brands but she really only like three dry foods ) after meowing for half a hour she will go eat and be happy.. o also sjhe has gotten arthritis in her shoulder wich i give her a joint supplement ( steriod pill ) i have noticed in the last year are so her fur is drier, and the last 6 months she pulls out sections of her fur, some parts of her coat are getting real thin, and today i saw where she was gnawing on her leg to where it was hairless and pink, about to draw blood...
also where she had the deep gash when i first got her ( i always guess a big cat dog got ahold of her and bit her a couple of times and she somehow had some teeth broken away, ) when she eats she has to strugle use one side of her mouth where her teeth are intact, ( she wont eat wet only dry food ) als where she had the gash if you rub it, i dont know if she likes it are now, she will bob her head close her eyes and lean her head way back to give me more access to rub scratch that spot, yet she makes no noise are tries to stop me/ so i guess she likes the rub.....
ok i am already spending about 75 dollars a month, just cant spend more are keep going to the vets ( VET SAID ITS JUST A PHASE? ) I AM DISSABLED MYSELF AND LIVE ON DISABILITY, after buy the different dry foods each month andat least2 30 litters 9 i use the armon hamor premuin, seems to clump the best, they track less across the carpets, and less smell than other brands i have used.

also i use liquid flea repleant and also each has a flea collar , new one every month are two, i have checked her with a magnifying glass , and she has no fleas, sometime when her fur gets real dry i see flake of dead skin, i also use sergeants anti iche spray on her to sothe her itches i guess?

does anyone know a over the counter ointment are moisturizer for cats that will bring luster back to her coat? also maybe stop her gnawing her self red in spots?
when i touch the raw spots she doesnt flinch are anything?
i am worried about her, also where can i get somekinf of bib are one of those cones to go around her neck so she cant get her teeth to her skin so much? the vet wouldnt give me one.
any info will help, thanks

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 12:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I'd take her to the vet first. It's possible the steroid is causing her fur to become dull.

As far as the obesity, you should probably stop free-feeding them. Either get prescription diet food from the vet or purchase a reduced calorie diet food at the pet store. You can give the other two the same food, but give her the diet food. Feed them a couple of times a day, different bowls for each one. They'll eventually get used to it.

If they are not outside cats, I'd stop with the flea collars. Usually, inside only cats are flea-free (the only time in 10 years that mine have had fleas were thanks to the guide dog from the blind guy I dated last summer). I used Advantage on each of them (took two treatments), and that was it. Inside only cats rarely get fleas if they are the only pets in the household.

Definitely, though, a visit to the vet is warranted. It sounds like she's got several things going on, and it's better to get a professional opinion, and be sure she's under doctors care when she's being medicated (was the joint supplement recommended by her vet?).

Taterheadtwo
Member

09-29-2005

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 3:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Taterheadtwo a private message Print Post    
i have been to the vet , several times for each of the cats, there 2 vets where i live, i have been to both over the last three years, frankly i am disapointed in them, as for the obese cat, she is lonely, she cant keep up with the other two and since she looks more like a lion's body thena sleek panthers, they dont spend much time with here. i am disabled, very very little money, i dont have a car so i cant just run to the store, i play with all my cats dozens and dozens of ties a day and night, each have their won favorite game, here she will chase a certian orange string once then flop down, if i hover over here and swish the string back and forth she will follow it, not much exercise there, she doe3s better when she brings me a toy and i go hide it, and she will wait till she thinks im not watching her and go find and bring it back, and meow ( look at me in special, and i will tell her she special ) but i think she has some kind of disorder, she twitches when i rub where she was deeply biten ( but thats where she pushes my hand to rub ? ) i have tried special diet food at 5 times the cost of regular food ( truth is i eat one dollar budget frozen dinners mosly all month to make ends meet, i live on a little disbaily check, ( i spend alot more than most for premuims litter, at least 2, 30 pound boxes with talcum deoderizers. and one of the indoor brand cat food she likes cost 26 dollars for a 6 lb bag, usually uses more than a bag a month, the other 2 dry foods i get in 20 lb bags. i have taken her to the vet shes the one who has told me both times, hey if she happy fat let her be, as for the twitching, yes its probably due to ingury when she was littel, and shes the one who suggest the steriod joint point, wich i get over the counter from pets meds. ( ok hate me if you want one of my cats has a tape worm, got it and viral infection when she was a kitten at the shelter, i have been to the vet twice for that, neither time what the vet gave killed it/ it lived are came back, becuase like clock work ever 2 months i see the little lice thingies, the last time i took her to the vet she gave her a shot, which almost instanly killed my cat, she went berserk, hacking and vomiting, and rolling her eyes back, the vet gave her something to take that back, and toold me only way would be to have surgery ( 600 bucks ) are4 to live with it, and give her tape worm tabs every two months which is what i do , 9 i was paying the vet 40 bucks a tab till i found the exact same thing at petmeds for 13 bucks for two pills, which i what i buy now.
yeah i sound hartless, i dirt poor, thats live, if i knew a person who would treat my cat are cats better i would yes want them to be better off, but if i hadnt bought them form the shelters, im thinking they would of been done away with, was on the news here localy the shelter is putting asleep over 150 animals a months becuase no one wants them.
i love my cats and spend more for their health than i do on myself.
again the one cat that pulls out her fur to where she is getting blad sots and even pink skind, i am just looking for one ofn those tubes you can put around their neck to keep them form able to gnaw on things, i did go to the vet and she said she would just sell one like that to me. so i odnt have any faith in the local vets here.
and for the fleas i too alowed a neighbor to bring her computer over to work on it and she let her small dog in the door, even when i asked her not too, the dog ploped down rolling around over furniture under the bed, scooting her but across the carpet, till the neighbor grbaed her small dog and lefted, i am disabled and could catch her dog. i went out and rented a rug doctor for 40 bucks spent 2 days going over my 2 rooms of carpets, yet 3 months later they got fleas any way, i gave all cats multiple baths , adn flea shampo, and solved it, but again i am over cuatious and still when isee one scratch i put on a new collar.
so if you want to look at me as a bad person so be it, but i love my cats, just cant give them the best in life, just hate to see my one cat gnaw her fur bare in spots, was hoping someone here had a solution and not just tell me to take her to the vet, i have been there and done that, time for me to be better informed and try to solve things when i can and before they get bad are harmfull to the cat.
and my cats love me, if they are alseep and i go to another room, if they wake up they call out for me.

Taterheadtwo
Member

09-29-2005

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 3:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Taterheadtwo a private message Print Post    
and before anyone wants to call me backwards, i am disabled, dont speel good, are type , post, i do the best i can. yeah you can look down on me, but i do try to spell right, and to sit her and go over and check anc heck till i am totaly confused , cant do it, what i type is waht i post, please accept me, overlook my limitations, thanks..i am posting only trying to find a over the counter ointment for cats who gnaw their fur away are one of those funnel things so she cant gnaw her self so much.

Moondance
Member

07-30-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 3:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Moondance a private message Print Post    
Hi Tater!

Costa had some good points. Also sounds like a food alergy. You could try Royal Canin light dry food. It seems to be good for food alergies and over weight. You can also get Omega-3 oil to mix in with their food but it sounds like it may not work as she doesn't like wet food.

Moondance
Member

07-30-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 3:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Moondance a private message Print Post    
Oh and use frontline for your flea control. Flea collars aren't the best and can irritate their skin. I have 8 cats and use frontline and I have NO problems with fleas.

Good luck and lots of kitty lovin' to you!!

Taterheadtwo
Member

09-29-2005

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Taterheadtwo a private message Print Post    
???? its not a food allergy, what it is, my obese cat, is missing alot of teeth on one side, like she was attacked when a kiten and teth where broken off, when she eats its always on one side, and mostly she swallows most of what she was able to cruch up once are twice. ( yet she wont eat soft are wet foods, tried many times, no she likes dry cat food only, and she has three brands she likes the rest she doeasntr and wont eat. now like i said her body shapeis different, hers pawas are larger and dont twist sideways ( able to grip better like the other two cats ) she has to pull it to her and maybe extend her nails to grab at it. ( example i have tred to train all three who to open a cracked door ), the two who have the same bodt types can turn their paw sideways and pull open the door, while the obese one cant she will try to put her big paw under the edge and opull that way. and again she cant keep up are leap as high as the others, even if she was skinny.
yeah i have tried to put her on a diet, but she dont cantr and wont understand why, she wails non stop for hours, to her its not fair. ( and looking at myself i am obese, yet i would dare to force what a cat could eat?
so even if the obeese cat was skinny, she would still have the missing teeth, the lttle limp, not able to leap across tall chairs. she is different and wants to do differnt games and things, so i love her and do things i know make her happy. she like all cats likes to clean themselves, unfortunal7y she she cant use the missing teeth and she uses one side and she ends up pulling out tuffs of hair , now where shehas bald spots, and spot are pinkish like she keep gnawing at it... the one factur is her hair texture ( yeah that probaly is her diet , grooming ) so again i am asking id any know where i can get one of those clear type funnules are cones vets put on animals to keep them formgnawing things with their teeth. ( if i could get one i would use it of and on till she gets fur back.. i also at least one a day get theobeese cat and rub tap water on her fur and use one of thos fine combs to comb out her fur, ( also removeing the old hair ) which she likes me doing provided i dont drench her with water.

and i have used frotline before put the liquid out of the tube right between her sholder blade and up a little toward her rear head, it didnt stop the scratching.
right now they arent scratching i just want o make sure they dont get botthered.. anfd yes i vacumm my carper almost dailey, but hey its a 60 dollar vacumm ad they dont do as good as a 400 dollar vacumm, but one has top live within their means.

well after my long post i am simple asking if any knows wheres to get one of those funnels/cones to prevent animals form gwawing

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I don't know about the Elizabethan collars. Sorry.

Have you tried brushing her yourself? You may be able to help her with her grooming, if she'll sit in or near your lap and let you brush her. That may help with her coat.

If she's tearing fur out, you can try putting Bitter Apple on her fur. Apparently it's really REALLY bitter (I won't test it) and it does stop dogs and cats from chewing on hot spots. You should be able to get some from your pet meds place (get a small bottle, it lasts a really long time).

Seriously, though, try to see if you can change her diet. She'll whine and cry. But cats are not stoopid; at some point they figure out that that is all they are gonna get, and will start to eat it. I used to free feed Costa until I got Kassie. He had to learn that food wasn't gonna be available all the time (they ate two different foods). It really doesn't take that long for them to adjust. They really are smart.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Taterheadtwo, it loooks like they are called Elizabethan collars. Go to www.google.com and enter elizabethan collar, and you will find some sellers.

Moondance
Member

07-30-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 6:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Moondance a private message Print Post    
I wasn't referring to her way of eating as a food allergy. The reaction she is having about scratching and hair loss ... both conditions are cause by food allergies.

Stess also can cause these conditions.

Moondance
Member

07-30-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 6:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Moondance a private message Print Post    
2 of my older kitties hardly have any teeth left and they are fine with eating dry so I would't worry to much about that.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 6:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Goddessatlaw a private message Print Post    
Taterhead, Max is a relentless overeater and if left to his own devices would be massively overweight. I've found that Iams Indoor Weight Control formula (blue bag) he likes but does not overeat it, I can leave it out full time and he will eat as he pleases but keeps a very healthy weight and doesn't just hork the food like he does everything else. Our other kitty likes it, too, he eats it when he's home.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 6:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I looked on the Internet and it shows they have those collars at PetSmart.

PetSmart Collars

Taterheadtwo
Member

09-29-2005

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 8:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Taterheadtwo a private message Print Post    
wow thanks all e collars is the way to go, i just dont want her to have raw spots form gnawing, actualy that what i cm giving her indoor weight control dry foods, and i is indoor urinary halth food , since she is not as active. i have thought about getting another kitten, but i dont know if she would play with my obese cat are take to the other cats more.

i will try to force her on a diet again, i just feel quilty since i am obese, feel like who am i to force cat what to eat are when?

i firgure since my obese cat has more down time , sionce they wont play with her, she spends mor time groming.

and i brush and come ner several times a day, which she enjoys, but big but this also causes her to start grooming herself, and i feel the way she only uses one side of her mouth she gnaws too deep and noitknowing any other way.
all 3 of my cats nip me for affection, yet when she does she usually peirces the skin, but i dont stop her, again i dont think she can do any better, the nipping is not a bite, she bite me once, when she was over my head on a bookshelve, andi was in a recliner and i leaned back and caught her tail , she screams and bite the first thing she could which was my nose, but she didnt mean to harm me, was just painful to her tail. also when i first got them and i would clip their nails, lol, she would want to protect her sisters, and latch onto my pants, ( not skin) and i would be draging her along till i stop clicpping her sisters nails,lol.
weel thansk to e collar is what i am looking for, i truely thank all for the help

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 8:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
I had a wonderful Siamese cat all her very long life, and she ate dry food all her very long life and for many years after she lost her teeth. She gummed it just fine.

Justavice
Member

11-22-2005

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 9:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Justavice a private message Print Post    
Taterhead, I don't have cats (I have a 19 year old parrot) but your worry about your weight compared to your cat's weight issues is so sweet, but really nothing to feel guilty about as far as I can see. You will be doing your cat a huge favor by reducing the calorie intake no matter how angry she gets because it will help her to feel more active, cat-like and happy (in the long run). I completely understand the financial issues with pets and admire your ongoing efforts to keep your kitties happy and healthy regardless of what is going on for you personally. I don't think you are a bad pet owner at all, in fact quite the opposite. If treating your cat's tapeworm with pills works for you and the cat, then why risk her life with surgery? Surgery is painful and can have complications and as much as you wish they would, they cannot speak. So you would never know if she was in pain or needed something. With the pills, her reaction is predictable and safe and it works for everyone. I applaud your efforts and the shelter you rescued them from would definitely feel the same. Everyone who posted before me has posted great info about the collar. Our dog had to wear one when I was younger and I would venture to guess that your cat may cry with it on the same way she does with a new diet. Be strong!! Don't break down!! Just love on her lots and let her heal. Best wishes to you and your kitties!!

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 12:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biscottiii a private message Print Post    
Nice comments Justavice!

TaterH2 I've been racking my brains, but I don't think I saved the collar from when my Louise had her spaying done. She digged at her stitches so hard they put a collar on her, no charge because it was part of the surgery.

Later when Thelma. a very mellow kitty, had her surgery, she didn't start scratching. But her 1st owner insisted that she wear a collar. John was dealing with dementia and whatever Louise had was required for Thelma. We volunteers were just grateful that he would allow them to be fixed, frankly, it had taken us 4 years getting him to agree to having Louise fixed (I was willing to pay even!). Turned out he had some idea set in his mind that being fixed meant she would automatically have her toenails chopped off. Huh? Not even was THAT going to happen.

Poor Thelma spent the week walking backwards wearing that collar, but she never complained. At the time, about 1996, since Thelma really didn't need it the vet was going to charge $11, but I managed to find Louise's old collar. Is there any chance that one of your friends might have an old collar left over after being fixed? Sure wish I had hung onto the one we had, but I sure don't have it to send you now. Sorry! Good luck with your clearly well loved kitties! Bisc

P.S. - funny part to the story about Louise getting fixed. After John finally reluctantly agreed to getting it done, I came home and he was all happy about it. Seems that he was complaining to the UPS driver who had delivered his own medications that we were forcing him to get her fixed. She told him "Yes, it's a good thing, the kitties are so much nicer to be around once that's all done." Suddenly it was like it was all HIS idea. All I could think was "Lady, WHERE have you been for the past 4 years! All it took was that one comment - from a woman we never met before - to make this an okay eventl!!!"

Babyruth
Member

07-19-2001

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 4:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyruth a private message Print Post    
How to make an E-collar:

http://www.petalert.com.au/faid/faa5.php

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 7:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Good work, Babyruth. I was thinking it shouldn't be too hard to make one too.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 9:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Taterhead, please don't take this wrong, and I don't mean to sound snarky, but if you can barely afford to take care of the cats you have now and yourself, please don't consider adding another cat to your family.

And please do consider ways to help your cat lose weight. It's not healthy for them (just as for humans, they can get heart disease, diabetes, and all sorts of other effects). I'm a vegetarian, yet I don't force my beliefs on my cats. They need meat for their health. So you shouldn't think that putting your little one on a diet. She needs to lose weight for her health. It'll help her groom herself better, she'll be more active, and generally, just a happier cat. Really, you aren't doing your cat any favors by allowing her to continue to overeat. And remember, it can take a while for a cat to lose a single pound (losing 1/10th of one's body weight, for a 10 lb cat, is a major thing).

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 9:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
I can relate to Taterhead since I am on a Fixed income disability as well. The vets seem to happily see the cats and yet dont do much for sorting out the real problems. And we arent bottomless pits of money for their repeat visits.

The other night I tried to post and the board was down for Maintenance. So I saved my post. Here it is.


My theories to review....

hate to say it but I think it is a food allergy. It would explain how the cat wants foods and different kinds (If I understand your post accurately) it also explains why Cat is so picky when it comes to brands/soft/kibbles etc. My dog had food allergies. She had the same skin symptoms you are describing.

Strangely enough, we crave what we often react to.

The skin condition could be a fungus but I'd try a hypoallergenic low cal food first. Specialty foods are usually more expensive but surprisingly the cats eat much less due to the good quality.

The other thing which May be causing trouble is all that Poison for the fleas. Something like Advantage seems expensive but in the long run a Flea free house and healthier Cats are well worth it.

OR....and this is also a possibility, Anxiety or boredom. My ex's sister had a dog which used to almost chew its front paw off. That was when it got really bad. Usually you will see scratching and biting until raw.

Birds will pluck themselves until bald.

****

I understand your worry as to the $$$. Vets are really something arent they!?


but i think she has some kind of disorder, she twitches when i rub where she was deeply biten

Taterhead, that is classic for deep tissue trauma. You get extremely itchy, nerve twinges happening. I'd let people scratch my back until Raw if I could....especially where I had some deep cuts.

Now, I hate to be the lone disagreeing person but think about curing the skin prob. not just putting on a cone.

If you would feel guilty putting Cat on a serious diet, I'm not sure how you'd feel putting on a cone so she cant satisfy her itch.

I'd be in absolute Total Hell if someone made me wear gloves so I couldnt scratch!! Yes, I ahve food sensitivities and sometimes my skin just crawls.

Feels like Ants running all over. ((and NO I dont drink LOL It aint the DTs ))