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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:53 am
"Richards retorted: "Shut up! Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f------ fork up your a--." When I first read this I didn't equate this statement with lynching. I guess the upside down part confused me, as I assumed lynching victims were hung by their necks. I had read about torture victimes that were hung by their feet and all kinds of reprehensible things were done, to the extent where some even died....but I had never heard that kind of torture being referred to as lynching before. I continue to learn something new every day.....
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:00 pm
On May 16, 1918, a mob of white men in Valdosta, Ga., pulled Mary Turner from a jail cell where she had allegedly been placed for her own protection and dragged her into the local woods. Before an assembled audience of women and children, she was stripped, hung upside down, soaked in gasoline, and burned to death. Her unborn child was cut from her womb and killed. Her crime: publicly criticizing the men who had earlier lynched her husband for a murder he did not commit. link
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:04 pm
How can you not bring race into this? Lynching and the n word ... race ... those words came from inside him ... they are not something that he would just pluck from thin air ... lynching is not a topic that would just pop out of a normal persons mouth when a Black person angered them. this justification of his actions almost appalls me worse than what he did. do I believe his apology was sincere? yes. does his apology make everything just fine? uh, no.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:05 pm
With respect to Richard's outburst, I don't think his lashing out makes him a racist. Makes him stupid and immature...but I've know real racists, and I'm not so sure one action can define a person as a racist. I believe that when people become that enraged, they lash out in a way that is designed to cause the most hurt and impact at the intended recipient. In Richard's case, he wanted to lash out and hurt black people. So what would cause the most harm verbally? Racists remarks. Richards was raised during the age of Civil Rights, same as me. In our minds, the worst thing in the world you can do a black person is say/do something racist. He was out of control and out of his mind. He is definitely going to pay for his stupidity by losing whatever remants of his career he may have kept after Seinfeld. I've no pity for him and feel whatever happens as a result of his tirade is just desserts.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:14 pm
Yeah I don't see how anyone can justify this mans actions.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:18 pm
In the event there is some misunderstanding here, I am not attempting to justify or excuse what he did. What he did was wrong.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:20 pm
I don't see how anyone is trying to justify his actions.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:28 pm
I don't see how anyone could justify his actions either and I don't see anyone justifying them here. It was appalling. However, let's not confuse attempting to explain his actions, with justifying them.
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:42 pm
Kitt, I agree, if the words came out of his mouth then they formed in his brain so I believe he feels that way. He may not even realize that he feels that way, but like Mel Gibson, it is there - and no amount of rationalization can change that.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:46 pm
Zmom I'm talking racism in general. Well, Sorry, I think this deserves it's own thread. Black history and everything I have learned has nothing to do with what Richards has said. I have always enjoyed this thread because I have learned so much. I know hate and ignorance, this is not history.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:47 pm
"In Richard's case, he wanted to lash out and hurt black people. So what would cause the most harm verbally? Racists remarks." But that supposes that the first thing he thought of when they heckled him was their colour, and that he found that (at the time) a reasonable thing to attack. I think that goes back to hidden (or in this instance not hidden) racist feelings.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:51 pm
There was a racism thread in N/V but no one wanted to talk about it. But again it is apart of our history. You certainly don't have to talk about it though. And I see justification of his actions Jimmer. But if I pointed it or the people out then that would be against the rules or something like that.
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Adven
Member
02-06-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:58 pm
Not necessarily, Kitt. If they were women, maybe he would have made sexist remarks. If they were overweight, maybe that's what he would have focused on. If they were bald or were cross-eyed, that's likely what he would have attacked. He's likely not a sexist, fattist, baldist and cross-eyedist. He just wanted to lash out and he thought their race was the thing that would most likely provoke them. Again, the behavior is inexcusable, the remarks racially unacceptable, but if this was uncharacteristic of him, then I wouldn't necessarily label him a racist. If, however, this was part of a pattern, then, obviously, I'd feel differently.
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Adven
Member
02-06-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:00 pm
I'd add, too, though, that those two guys were right. I've seen his stand up and it isn't funny.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:01 pm
You can condem the action without condeming the person. I don't see that as justification for someone's bad behavior. I remember as a child I destroyed someone's crucifix. Not because I hated catholics or christians, but because I knew that crucifix meant a lot to that person. I was punished big time for my actions and I've learned as I matured not to lash out when I'm angry. But does that mean I hate all catholics or christians? I don't think one bad action defines who a person is. And I am in NO WAY justifying Richard's behavior when I say that. JMHO. ETA: I never did think he was funny...didn't get the Kramer character at all....
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:04 pm
Let's say a guy is walking down the street, someone accidentally brushes against him and he pulls out a gun and kills the person that brushed up against him. Obviously, there is no way to justify the killing. But we may attempt to find an explanation for why the killer acted that way. Those are two different things.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:12 pm
Years later, lessons from Newark riots to be learned Updated 11/19/2006 11:08 PM ET By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY NEWARK — Moise Abraham heard the bullets before he saw what they had done. It was July 12, 1967, the first night of the deadly Newark riots that put a spotlight on racial unrest in the nation's decaying urban centers. His mother had walked down the block, promising she would soon be back. "Then I heard something hit the parking sign. It said 'Bing,' " remembers Abraham, then two weeks shy of his 17th birthday. "A few seconds later, my mother is coming up the street, but I noticed she was walking with a limp, so I ran to her and I grabbed her. ... When we got to the front porch, she collapsed." The next day, Rosa Lee Abraham died from a gunshot wound her son believes was fired by a police officer, although no official determination was made. Moise Abraham has struggled emotionally ever since. Almost as painful, Abraham says, is the lack of acknowledgment for what the riots wrought. "It is personal, but it is a pain that we all felt," says Abraham, 56, who yearns for a citywide memorial service for the 26 who died in the riots. "Even if they had done it once every 20 years, I would have appreciated that. But it's just total silence. ... It seems that for some reason, Newark has forgotten." Now, there is an effort to remember. In the first major exhibit documenting the 1967 Newark riots, the New Jersey Historical Society is assembling a retrospective that is scheduled to open by next summer, the 40th anniversary of the unrest. Tentatively titled "What's Going On," the exhibit will use oral histories, text and artifacts to examine the six days of rioting in Newark. It also will look at the violence that engulfed Detroit 11 days later and the 1965 riots in Los Angeles' Watts district. link
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:13 pm
Even though I stated to the contrary twice, given comments regarding my comments in the Gossip thread, I think some may have thought I was trying to justify Richards' actions. I was only remarking that the hecklers, had they not liked the show, should have just left instead of exhibiting rude behavior themselves and that one's behavior should not be excused just because it's less than another's. Not surprisingly, that was not a popular opinion with some.
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Twinkie
Member
09-24-2002
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:19 pm
IMHO What comes pouring out of your mouth that easily, without thinking, is what you really feel. For me, no apology is acceptable. I think racism is ignorance and a lack of morals. My parents came from Mississippi and Georgia and I never, ever heard the n word or any racial slurs in our home even though they were raised with it. Because my parents were Christians and believed we're all the same in Heaven so we should all be the same here. Unfortunately, I had uncles I couldn't say the same for.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:30 pm
Actually I wasn't referring to you Nt.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:36 pm
Oh, great, so I now I just look paranoid! Mocha, I wanted to be clear just in case.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:40 pm
ROTFLMAO @ NT!!!
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:43 pm
Lolol!!
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 2:04 pm
It's sad that there SHOULD be a racism thread; there's enough material to keep it going lately. ETA - I wonder if the racism thread lacked postings, because people were scared to post. I know I am not completely educated and aware of ever racist or offensive thing I may say. But I'd rather say something, and have people dialogue with me and explain why I am wrong, so I can learn why I should never do it again. I have grown up fairly sheltered from racial issues, and I know I may say things more out of ignorance, rather than malice. But some things are harder to discuss via text, to know a person's intent.
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 2:27 pm
The thing is - he isn't Kramer. Kramer is a character he played. It was created for him and written for him. So that is all we know of him. He was funny with stuff written and created for him, but obviously not on his own. We really do not know what his character is. The only thing I did hear, is that he was not an easy person on set. He hated any fooling around, took himself very seriously.
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