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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 6:53 am
Ladytex, thanks for your post. I'm still thinking about how/if to answer. I would be willing to Email if you are open to that. Maris, thanks for understanding. Zmom, I see your point. But at the same time, unless you have experienced something, I think it's still different. You can empathize with all your heart, your heart can break over the things that others experience. But that's not quite the same as going through it yourself. I think of people who say "when I'm a parent", or tell you how to raise your kids when they don't have any. Do they sometimes have valuable advice? Of course. It's still not the same as being a parent. I had lots of good advice before I was a parent. Being a parent has made me understand parenting a whole new way. That's a different kind of example than experiencing racism. I hope it kind of makes my point, that experiencing something directly is always going to be somewhat different than seeing it. It's much the same as being gay in today's society. I can care, I can suffer with my gay friends as they continue to be treated as less than others. But I will never experience that kind of societal degradation myself. That doesn't excuse us from trying to understand, it just notes that I think it's somewhat different.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 7:19 am
Zmom, I see your point. But at the same time, unless you have experienced something, I think it's still different. I think, unless you are a very fortunate human being, has been hurt at the core of who you are. Every person posting here is a human being first and foremost. When Mocha stated that she deals with racism EVERY DAY, WOW. I only deal with the core of who I am every so often, but I KNOW how much it hurts. It hurts WHO YOU ARE! I am a Christian, go look at n&v and see how hurtful those comments are. Those are ok here at TVCH. Take Christian and put Black and see how it is.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 7:30 am
Zmom, I think that's part of my point. You and I can walk away from it. We can only understand it, when we think about it. Those who are gay, or are black, in our society can't walk away from it. They live with it 24/7. When I was young (about 15), I started dating a young black teen from our high school. We had dated for about a month, and become very close. Then my dad found out. He threatened to kill him. Note, even tho I had chosen to date him, my dad didn't threaten to kill me; he threatened to kill him. I wasn't sure if my dad would do it or not, but I thought he might at least hurt him badly. So I broke off with him. I told him the truth. I was hurt over what was happening; but I recognized when I told him why I was breaking off, that the hurt was much different for him. That we couldn't date simply because of his skin color, which was part of who he was. It killed me to see the look on his face; but I know I could never feel it the same way he did, at that moment.
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:00 am
Kar, something similar happened to my #2 son last year. I was furious and heartbroken and powerless ...
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:04 am
I am 68 and have never, ever been a user of profanity; however, I know the words. With enough provocation, perhaps I could lose my temper and let fly with the best of them. But I still would not consider myself a profane person. The same with racist remarks; I know what they are, have never used them in my life, but again with provocation I could probably let fly fast and furious. That would not make me a racist any more than using bad language makes me profane. I would just be an idiot who lost her temper.
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Jan
Moderator
08-01-2000
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:07 am
God I keep hoping our generations are growing out of that - that it is only our parents that feel that way and it stops with us. I couldn't believe it last year when my step father ( an immigrant from the middle east) asked me why it didn't bother me to see a black man with a white woman. I was stunned and said - no it doesn't bother me. Why would it? I see it all the time. I just hoped that he said it because he is old and brought up the old ways. I keep hoping that these feelings will die with his generation. It is really disheartening to know it still goes on. PS OG, I am not referrig to your post . When I started my post, yours wasn't there  
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:21 am
(((Ladytex))) I am so sorry for you and your son. Any young lady would be quite fortunate to date him; and I'm so sorry that wasn't recognized. It's so disheartening and infuriating to know some things are still the same 30 years later. It must be even worse as a mother to know you can't protect your kids from that kind of ugliness.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:36 am
Growing up in a very diverse neighborhood, we (my sister and I) had boyfriends that were black, white, hispanic, and indian. We didn't see it as "I am seeing a black guy" we saw it as "I am seeing this guy". We all ran in such a big group of kids that all we saw were friends and neighbors. We never fathomed that it was "wrong" until my gramma said that it was socially unacceptable. She made a fuss about it and my mom took us aside and said that we could see whoever we chose, that we were smart girls and that the race lines would never be erased because of closed minded people like my gramma who grew up in a different era. She said that we could continue to see who we chose as long as we used good judgement in regards to they type of person we wanted to see, which should have nothing to do with race, but more about personality and character. It bothers me when people project their feelings, doubts, fears, and hatred onto the next generation. FWIW I had no idea until a small number of years ago that it used to be illegal for whites and blacks to marry, on that same note, I had no idea that gay marriage wasn't allowed until someone stood up to fight for it to be legal. When I found out about both I had one of those "you're kidding" moments. I couldn't believe that it was illegal on either account. Struck me as kind of stupid. I know as time goes on that the feelings will die, but it has to die on both sides. The animosity and anger is just feuling the fire.
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Spangs
Member
10-07-2005
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:53 am
It is disheartening Kar. My nephew is bi-racial(his Mom is white), but he was threatened with death if he continued to see his white girlfriend. He lives in good old liberal Austin Texas, and the father that threatened him is part of a group of parents and teachers that present seminars dealing with multi-culturalism in Texas schools.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 9:19 am
I could be wrong in assuming this, and please correct me if I am, please, but aren't most black people now days bi racial on some account? I was under the impression that that is what accounted for the fairer skin tones than the black people from decades ago. Again I could be totally wrong in this account. I imagine it is hard to find anyone native to this country that is all one race/culture. I am the biggest mutt there is, ok maybe not the biggest, because I am about 60% Scotch/Irish and the rest a mix of Cherokee/Shawnee/Mandan/Picqua and German/Dutch. There is some spanish mixed in there somewhere down the line. However, I am a card carrying Cherokee of California. I have enough Indian in me to not need a fishing/hunting license and a no limit on trout and salmon if I wanted to, but the red tape to go through to get that and the geneology is a PITA, it's easier to buy the license and just catch and release after my limit. But I digress, still a mutt on every account. Dang, I'd never win a pedigree show.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 10:46 am
((((((Spangs & Family/ LadyT & family/ and everyone who's experienced similar pains and descrimination...)))))))
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 3:09 pm
This is an excellent article
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 3:13 pm
My race is human. My heart hurts anytime anybody suffers racism. If I had been at the laugh factory when Richards made his remarks, I would have got up and demanded my money back. He was not funny. I have had family members/friends make racists remarks and I had no problem telling them they have offended me. Sure it makes the silent majority of the family a little uncomfortable, but I can't sit by and say nothing. I have made it very clear to my family and friends that I will not tolerate racism.
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Retired
Member
07-11-2001
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 3:19 pm
Lady, thanks for the link. Great article.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 3:26 pm
Thanks LT, you're right, it is an interesting, educational read.
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Jhonise
Member
07-10-2003
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 3:44 pm
Author Bebe Moore Campbell has died. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/11/27/entertainment/e130523S14.DTL
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 4:57 pm
It has been reported that Michael Richards would like to make a personal apology. He said he tried to do this that night but the men had already left. I'm not going to get into whether this is true or not because [insert sarcasm] apparently Gloria Allred was there that night also because she says that is not true. Regardless, Allred believes the apology can only be effective if it is made in the presence of a judge so the judge can determine if the apology is sincere enough or if money would make it all better. My question is does money really make the pain go away? Is it going to ease the pain of the people who don't get any of that money? I'm not trying to be a smartass - I really would like to know.
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 5:07 pm
no, money doesn't make the pain go away, but when part of your spiel was in the morning I'm gonna still be rich and you're still gonna be a n*, then money may make those two guys feel a little better since he won't be as rich as he was.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 5:19 pm
Thanks, Lady. If a judge does decide to make Richards pay out money, I believe it should be to a non-profit organization for cultural diversity.
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Chiliwilli
Member
09-04-2006
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 5:53 pm
I'm with you Native_texan. I don't think he should be sued anyway but if he does have to pay money I would love to see it go to that type of thing. Those kind of organizations run on grants a lot and don't ever get the funding they can use. Along with that I would like to see Richards work in one of those organizations for a while to see what other's lives are like. It always hits home more if you are actually there in person talking to and working with the people you need to learn from.
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Wargod
Moderator
07-16-2001
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 5:54 pm
Robert McFerrin Sr dies. ST. LOUIS - Robert McFerrin Sr., the first black man to sing solo at the New York Metropolitan Opera and the father of Grammy-winning conductor-vocalist Bobby McFerrin, has died. He was 85.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 5:55 pm
That's sad. But how wonderful that he broke the colour-barrier at the MET. 
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 6:12 pm
that is sad, RIP, Mr. McFerrin
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Twinkie
Member
09-24-2002
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:18 pm
Wow, I didn't know that about Bobby McFerrin's father. What an accomplishment!
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Monday, November 27, 2006 - 9:07 pm
I didnt either. I agree, great accomplishment! Thoughts and prayers go out to his family.
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