Author |
Message |
Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:33 am
Just sick.
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Chewpito
Member
01-04-2004
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:38 am
Oh Ill bet Gloria got wind of this and hunted those guys down, It didnt look to me like they were looking to sue.. I think she knows "when and where and what kind" of cases will get her face seen. Its exposure for her and she is a big lawyer and she probably approched them...
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:41 am
I'm saddened about this whole thing too, but I am happy to see that nobody on this board agrees with Richards gross behavior. Truth is, money makes things easier and I think Richards should pay those two guys all the money he made at the laugh factory. He should also have to do public service for free. I don't know what but he didn't just hurt black people's feelings, he hurt everybody's feelings. HE INSULTED ALL OF US! I'm not judging him, just telling the truth and leaving the rest up to God.
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:48 am
When Richard Pryor was asked by an interviewer why he said that epithet so much in his comedy, he replied, "to drain it of its power." Dave Chappelle, to me, is an heir to that tradition and he consistently does interesting things with race, and not merely in terms of black-white issues, but with Asians, Latinos, etc. His "Racial Draft" from season two is one of the most fascinating skits about race I have seen; his skit about the N***er family is equally devastating; his " Frontline" episode about Clayton Bigsby, the blind black white supremacist is subversive in any number of ways. [BTW, I think other comedians, like Sarah Silverman, make comedy about race in completely interesting ways....they push they boundaries of what is acceptable and what we can say about race, so it's not simply about African Americans talking about race, but about the talent, and ability to say something new, of the performers themselves.] I'd address the women's center issue, especially since I was a women's studies and English major as an undergrad, but this is not the right forum for it.
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Chewpito
Member
01-04-2004
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:57 am
As for the coments about other comedians making racists remarks... You own your race!! Im Spanish, we make jokes all the time about beans and like minded things...If you listen to George Lopez, he cracks jokes at the expense of his race all the time..Its funny. Chris Rock,Dave Chappelle--its the same thing.. Who ever that guy is "the red neck guy" makes jokes about what he knows/how he grew up... We look to our roots and we can cut up on our selves.. If you are going to see those shows- "you know what your going to see"... There was no expectation for the crowd to be exposed to what Richard did and Richards took it to a whole nether level filled with vile and hate.. "Lynching and torture" thats not even a little funny, and frankly I have never heard any one else think it was funny. Like I said earlyer, He has a lot of work to do and he needs to do it for along time..probably for the rest of his life.. Thrue his actions is the only way he can move forward..
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:14 am
Apparently Richard Pryor's "draining" technique didn't work, the epithet seems to have the same power its always had when spoken by a white person. Lenny Bruce also did his part to reduce the power of the "N" word, by saying it over and over and over again. His efforts didn't work well either. Black comedians can say/do racists things publically that white comedians would be run off stage for even hinting at. I think its because our society tends to view blacks as never being racist (no matter what they do) and whites as always being racists (no matter what they do). There is a double standard in this country, and until BOTH sides can be seen as equals in issues dealing with race, racism will be a permanent part of our society.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:21 am
I'm OK with people making jokes about their own race. In person, I am very self-deprecating for the sake of a joke, and I think those people are fine. My point was that when other *marginalized" race comedians make fun of OTHER races, it's not seen as a big deal. A black comedian talking about crackers isn't offensive, for some reason. Like we give a free pass to the rules of racism, for people who have been victims of racism. I guess my argument is that if it's a rule for SOME to follow, then it should be a rule for EVERYONE to follow. If calling someone a racial slur is a no-no, then NOBODY should be allowed to do it. If some are allowed to do it, then we shouldn't get all upset when others do it too. Now I understand the idea that if it is done for comedic effect, and not from a malicious motivation, it is OK. But then we see examples of maliciously motivated racial slurs for the sake of comedy in many places. For example, in one of the episodes of Entourage, Ari is driving and shouts at another car, "This isn't Tienanmen Square, BlTCH!" To be honest, I laughed, but I'll admit I laugh at racist comedy like Chappelle and Chris Rock. But the events surrounding Tienanmen Square are NOT funny, and what Ari yelled is a slur motivated by malice. So....why funny? Why acceptable? (Hi Tish!! Would love to see an explanation of the women's center in my folder when you have time!)
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:26 am
I don't think that pointing out stereotypes in your own race for the purpose of humor or for making a point that stereotyping is wrong or to take away the power of racist words, is a very good idea. The problem is that the people that you are attempting to get your point across to, are probably too stupid to understand what you are trying to do and instead merely take those stereotypes to heart.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:28 am
I disagree Kep. Racism: Racism is commonly defined as a belief or doctrine where inherent biological differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, with a corollary that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.[1] The term racism is sometimes used to refer to preference for one's own ethnic group (ethnocentrism),[2] fear of foreigners (xenophobia), views or preferences against interbreeding of the races (miscegenation),[3] and nationalism,[4], and/or a generalization of a specific group of people (stereotype); regardless of any explicit belief in superiority or inferiority embedded within such views or preferences. Racism has been used in attempts to justify social discrimination, racial segregation and violence, including genocide. Did Pryor or Chris Rock say they were superior and has the right to rule others in their stand up? Now I'm in no way saying that black/hispanic people haven't been prejudiced or expressed their prejudices. My dad told me many times when I was a teenager not to bring home a white boy. Prejudiced comment yes.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:30 am
And yes a black comedian talking about crackers is offensive. Also Eeyore I think you're trying to get into a discussion about when white people use the n-word and when black people use the n-word. Yes?
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:54 am
Sort of Mocha. Personally, I am one who believes that it shouldn't be a rule unless we are going to apply it evenly. There are several different variables in the "comedian using a racial slur" scenario, that change whether people find it offensive, and I just thought that this was a perfect storm of those variables. Change the race of the comedian, and it would have never reached the press. Reverse the races of the comedian and recipient, and it would never reach the press. Change the race of the recipient to match the race of the comedian, and it would never reach the press. Little changes make all the difference as to whether we scream racism. I just think it's hypocritical. I really do think Richards was in the wrong, and he crossed some sort of line, but the devil's advocate in me wants to explore the rules we are applying, and wants to know why the rules are applied in some cases and not others. I hope nobody feels I am trying to take away from the offensiveness of Richards' actions.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:02 pm
I agree that Gloria contacted them, they prolly didnt even think about suing. She is known for going for high profile people...they dont ahve to pay her, she will take a cut of the settlement, if there is one. Sometimes suing one person sends a message to others...kinda like the Firefighter lawsuit we have going on in CA right now.
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Llkoolaid
Member
08-01-2001
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:08 pm
My Opinion, Richards was an a$$, Jerry was an A$$ for supporting his apology and if part of his sprew was he was Rich well I hope those men take what is obviously most important to that rich man and he isn't quite so rich tomorrow morning.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:09 pm
And, of course, Gloria gets all kinds of publicity. In this instance, I think the message got across loud and clear a few days ago. No need in wasting taxpayer money in court about it. ETA: Who said money was the most important thing to Richards? Of course, if he does give them a personal apology, then everyone will say he did so to keep from paying any money. One of the guys said that the club has his personal phone number so there was no reason that Richards could not have called him. Could it be that Richards was not aware the club has the guy's number or even that Richards would think to ask if they had the guy's number. Is it the practice of the club to take the phone number of every customer that comes in the door?
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:10 pm
IMO being called a cracker is nothing compared to being called the N word. I always crack up when Jefferson says it but I cringe when I hear the N word, even when said by an African American. To me, the N word is the most vile word in the world, more vile than being called a mf-er or anything else.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:14 pm
I do not agree one bit about suing. Like Westtex said in another thread: What he said was despicable but we have freedom of speech and to suggest that he should be sued is scary.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:18 pm
A racial slur is a racial slur. It is meant to be offensive and no one should think that it is alright to say the n word or the c word or any thing else that can constitute as hate speech, no matter what race you are. I just shake my head when I hear on person refer to another person as "my ni**er" I don't care what race you are....
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Biloxibelle
Member
12-21-2001
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 1:17 pm
Prisoner, ITA with the statement you made in your 10:31 post. "You don't use race as an insult unless you think someone's race is insulting."
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 1:37 pm
From another board... An Open letter to Kramer Can’t stand the hecklers? Then get the <77> off the stage Instead of spouting racial epithets In an uncontrollable rage. How could you possibly be any more crass Than to say “50 years ago we’d have you Upside down with a fork in your ass.”? You’ve showed your true colors. You might as well face it. The entire country knows you’re a racist. Don’t look back now and try to be pensive What you said was nothing short of incredibly offensive. Now you’re on Letterman with crocodile tears Mourning the loss of your acting career. Yeah you <77>, Kramer, and the whole country heard You shouting in hatred, that horrible word. The meaning of the word you used… You probably have no clue. Because if you did, you’d know that The only <77> in that room… was you. ~ ~ ~ Written 11/21/06 by D’vyn2006 ©
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 1:45 pm
great poem
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 1:49 pm
I found it interesting on The VIew today, that Joy was saying he is relatively new to stand-up, and hasn't done much of it, so doesn't know how to react to hecklers. They talked about how most stand-up people start in these little tiny clubs where you learn how to control the room, etc., and he went right into these big clubs, and doesn't know how to be a stand-up comedian. It was interesting that Joy and Rosie both mentioned that there are some stock lines that most comedians know and use to deal with hecklers, implying he was too green to know these lines. Just an interesting history, that may contribute to how a person reacts on stage. His was of the immature comedian variety. Again, not excusing his actions.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 3:39 pm
I just checked out Richards with IMDb which states he was a standup comic before Seinfeld.
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Chewpito
Member
01-04-2004
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 4:41 pm
Your right Ophilia, he was, and in listening to some differant segments on talk-radio that featured other comics that had worked with him in those early days, they said he had done the same thing way back when....the only differance was their were no cameras and since he was pritty much a unknown at the time....it was swept under the rug so to speak....
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Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 5:11 pm
I don’t think that anybody here has tried to okay what Richards said. It was a foul and disgusting tirade for him to go on. I think what some people are questioning is whether something said in a moment of anger or pressure necessarily ends up defining who we are at our core. We all have some ugliness in us that the wrong situation can loosen. Some of the thoughts that have crossed my brain, I am deeply ashamed of; some of the words that have crossed my lips make me cringe, all things that occurred in moments of anger, whether at my parents or my ex-husband or the stranger that cut me off in traffic and almost caused an accident. I just rented Lost from Netflix and I was curled on my couch watching episode 6 today and a dialogue occurred that was so appropos to the discussion in this thread that I wanted to share it because I know a lot of people here are Lost fans. I don’t think this dialogue reveals any of the mysteries of the show so it shouldn’t spoil anything for anyone. It concerns a scene where Jin, a Korean man, attacks Michael, a black man, for no apparent reason and a third man, Sayid, is questioning what happened. Walt, Michael’s son, witnessed the whole incident. Michael: I’m tired of saying this, I was just walking the beach with my son, and all of a sudden this dude is all up on me. I didn’t do anything. Sayid: Surely there must be something you’re not telling us. Michael: Surely? Where are you from, man? Sayid: Tikrit. Iraq. Michael: Okay, I don’t know how it is in Iraq, but in the United States of America, where I’m from, Korean people don’t like black people. Did you know that? Then later, Michael and Walt talk on the beach. Walt: How come he doesn’t like us? Michael: What? Walt: You said people like him don’t like people like us. Michael: Oh man, no... Look, that’s not true and... I don’t think like that anyway. I was... I was angry. The interesting thing is that I had paused the DVD and taken a nap between the two scenes... the initial scene where Michael made that statement and the later scene where his son asked him about it and I had to stop and think for a minute what Walt was even talking about because, for me, something someone says in the heat of the moment doesn’t necessarily define who they are as a person and it wasn’t computing for me because I don’t view Michael’s character as racist against Koreans based on something he said in anger. It appears now, that Richards may have a pattern of reacting like this and that is a whole ‘nother ball game. I just understand that things slip past our lips sometimes that we wish for the world we could take back. Does that make us terrible people at heart?
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 5:25 pm
I think there are different types of people: a) People who never have a racist thought b) People who have the occasional racist thought, but sincerely believe that it is wrong so they try to do better and suppress it. c) People who have occasional racist thoughts (particularly when they feel angry or wronged) and sincerely believe it is wrong but occasionally let them slip out. d) People who have racist thoughts but generally know that it is bad for their image and suppress it most of the time. e) People who are racist and proud of it and want everyone else to know their point of view. I don't know if we should feel that a racist is a racist and there are no distinctions, but society tends to recognize that there are varying levels of negative acts, hence different penalties for different crimes. I'm inclined to feel that way about racism as well. Obviously, the last category is the absolute worst kind of racist.
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