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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:20 am
I know someone who takes Clonipin, and it's very VERY addictive, and will cause withdrawls if you go without it after being on it a long time. The person I know who takes it, takes it for insomnia (as well as other things I am sure)
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:49 am
I took Ativan for about a week after a health issue. Boy, was I glad to see the tail-end of that stuff, made me loopy as a roller coaster. When I called Pepto Bismo that 'yellow' stuff, my daughter said I'd probably reached my limit of Ativan.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:55 am
I tried Ativan as a sleep aid once. I was cuttin' them little tiny pills in fourths and still couldn't tolerate it. I always woke up with a hangover so bad, I felt like I'd been out drinking all night, rather than sleeping. 
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Adven
Member
02-06-2001
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:56 am
How someone reacts to any medication varies. When you start mixing and matching 9 different kinds, the chances of a severe reaction only multiply. When you are dealing with someone who has a history of drug abuse and, therefore, requires higher and higher doses of many of them in order to achieve a therapeutic effect, it's just a matter of time. With her history and her severely depressed state, I wonder why someone wasn't monitoring her drug intake more closely.
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Hypermom
Member
08-13-2001
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 2:02 pm
NT, I don't think you are being catty at all. I haven't seen such a lynch mob/rumor mill from the TH's since the Atlanta bombing with Jewel, imo. Quite a bit of back peddling on calling him a murderer today!
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 2:28 pm
Adven, you probably know the answer to this much better than I but aren't there meds that only a psychiatrist can prescribe. I know that when Travis first started taking Ritalin, his pediatrician prescribed it. A couple of months into it, he said that only a psychiatrist could prescribe it from then on. And when I took him to Children's Hospital with a reaction to a particular med, the ER doctors were clueless about psychiatric meds. What a nightmare that was.
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Hypermom
Member
08-13-2001
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 2:53 pm
Wow! Huge back peddle from Larry's ex attorney Debra Opri. She said it was a mis-statement of hers when she said Larry was being influenced by Howard about making any deals.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 3:23 pm
The current shot was not with the dirty needle. A recent shot perforated an abcess from a previous shot with a dirty needle - that's what caused the blood infection. There was no sign of blood infection at the time of death. not exactly what the autopsy report says. as for the Bacteria in the blood, it is quite complicated Some bacteria are quite delicate when they hit the blood stream and break apart. It is almost impossible to detect sometimes regardless of infection. For instance, Neonatal menigitis. By the time the child is close to death and covered in hemorraghic rash, the bacteria is rarely detected in the blood. Often you will find fragments of the bacteria and must make a diagnosis on that. *** In the case of ANS, without aspiration of the abscess and sensitivity testing, she was given Cipro at a high dose. This med would continue to affect the bacteria in the blood therefore make it hard to detect them.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 3:24 pm
oh, i havent seen a thing on tv about this. Only read the 40 pg autopsy report
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Adven
Member
02-06-2001
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 3:34 pm
NT, I'm not sure how things work in the US, but in Canada any licensed doctor can legally prescribe almost any medication, although most refer a patient to a specialist if there are complications or extenuating circumstances. For instance, a family doctor will often prescibe an antidepressant for depression, but if the patient doesn't respond or the doctor feels the problem isn't straightforward, he/she generally makes a referral to a psychiatrist who, hopefully, can be more precise in diagnosing the problem. The reason is twofold. One is that most doctors lack the expertise to deal with issues outside their specialty if they present difficulties and, two, they leave themselves wide open to malpractice suits if they continue to try and treat a patient whose problems would have been better served by a specialist. The number of drugs on the market is staggering and most doctors simply can't keep up. Adding to the problem is the fact many doctors are wined and dined by pharmaceutical companies and tend to push their drugs of choice, whether they are the best option or not. It's really important that any patient or parent of a patient read up on any medication before taking it and that they feel confident the doctor prescribing it is on top of things.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 4:10 pm
not exactly what the autopsy report says. I have not read the autopsy report. I am relying on the direct statement of Dr. Perper during his press conference today:
quote:Dr. Perper says the injection that caused the buttock infection did not in and of itself cause her death. It is unclear who administered the injection that broke the abscess open, but it was not the linchpin of her death.
and...
quote: The needle perforated an abscess and caused the infection that led to a high fever.
http://www.tmz.com/2007/03/26/who-injected-anna/
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 4:58 pm
the autopsy report states that they think that the abscess was leaking into the blood stream from the pressure of sitting down on her bottom on that plane. Sorry I cant remember which page. It is 40 pgs. No mention is made of a second needle which burst the abscess. (unless for some strange reason I missed reading that one comment)
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 5:02 pm
I've read that TMZ article. I think it may be a misquote due to Dr Perper's convaluted way of speaking. medically speaking, if a person had an abscess they would be sick. If she had the abscess lanced with another needle, the junk would probably would have blown out of the body due to the pressure. I've seen this in real life. it is truly gross. the pressure of an abscess adds to the pain.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 5:29 pm
Sunshyne, he seemed quite clear to both me and TMZ and several other news service reports, such as Reuters. Whatever.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 5:32 pm
okay Nancy grace is on and Dr Perper is talking. But frankly not making much sense. I think he is trying to dumbdown the results and it is adding to the confusion. He also is completely incorrect. The bacteria causing the Abscess are not 'routine' skin organisms. As soon as I heard his comment that I looked up links to prove my point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunistic_infection It preys exclusively on the weakest of the weak and the sickest of the sick, slipping into the body through open wounds so in other words, her illness was severe BEFORE the infection took hold. oh and pseudomonas is considered a contaminant bacteria. It would not have come from a needle, it would have come from a contaminated Bottle of Meds that was entered into repeated. an example is Like that Huge bottle of methadone. I didnt see any testing of the stuff in the room mentioned in the report. I find that suspect/
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 5:34 pm
I went back and read the report Karunna. Whatever! ...back at cha. there were multiple hemorraghic needle tracks.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 5:41 pm
oh yeah. and multiple fluid filled cysts. only one big 3 cm abscess. GEEZ that must have hurt!
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 9:53 pm
Dr Cyril Wecht also said he agreed with what Dr Perper said and that it made sense. He's also a medical examiner. Perper and others also read many emails and documents on the two computers and used those to determine that Anna seemed to be coming out of depression and was looking forward to the future and thus, not suicidal.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:03 pm
Klonopin is also, or was last I heard, used for people with dissociative disorders too. Lots of PTSD and sleeping problems there. What I heard was that the methodone was only in the kidneys and that indicated that she hadn't taken anyh of that while in Florida. The level of cholral hydrate was very high. Dr Wecht said it isn't commonly used anymore, in fact he has two adult children who are doctors who often deal with patients and prescribe drugs and the didn't even know what it was.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:20 pm
I agree that it would have been best if someone had been centrally monitoring what Anna was taking (even Anna..) and various apologists for various friends, especially Howard, have explained that as soon as someone attempted to actively intervene, Anna would exclude them from her life. This does seem to be what happened with Larry, when he started questioning her drug use while pregnant and wanting to be active in her life, she literally picked up and left the country. Some woman was on Catherine Crier and said when she tried to intervene, Anna cut her off and they never spoke again. Howard's ex attorney said if he mentioned going to a hospital Anna would refuse. Catherine said but.. what if someone just called 911 and let them deal with her? I guess that would work at least once, but frankly if someone is on a collision course with overdose it is often hard to continue to hold off the inevitable. And Adven, I completely agree that parents or patients must be an active part of the process and not simply rely on the doctor. I respect my doctor very much and ask him questions about information or about why I'm on a specific med, would something else be better, etc. And he gives me his reasons. I'm on Lipitor and the dose is high enough that he isn't willing to switch to the generics that are available, That works for me. But he'll also listen to me if I've read about somthing and if he doesn't know about it he'll go read up. He's one doctor who is capable of apologizing and actually wants feedback on himself and his office staff.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:48 pm
when I said that Dr Perper wasnt making much sense as his strong accent and dumbing down answers changes what the report conclusion REALLY says. I dont see the actual results of any of the routine work, only the Toxicological studies. I dont believe that the Smoking Gun Report is the total report. I really dont care if anyone checks my links or not. One of my jobs in the past involved Drs who would come and ask for my specialized diagnostic opinions and rely on me to tell them what it means. I've read reports like that for years and inconsistent verbal statements jump out at me.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 12:21 am
Wikipedia is great but they allow people to post without checking out what is submitted, unless it is challenged, it just stands. I certainly use wikipedia but take it with a grain of salt.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:06 am
Yep, Wikipedia reported deat of the comedian Sinbad a couple of weeks ago; only problem..he wasn't dead. Are these cysts, boils??
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Adven
Member
02-06-2001
| Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 7:35 am
Almost all the drugs she was taking were psychoactive, meaning they impact the brain fairly indiscriminately. So a drug prescribed for depression also effects other centres of the brain. What likely happened is each one depressed her respiratory system slightly, but in combination it was overwhelmed and she went into cardiac arrest.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 8:01 pm
<48> Take the wiki link with a grain of salt, Look up the bacteria in any search engines you trust Put in Opportunistic Pathogens... be sure to specify both full names of the bacteria. It makes a difference to diagnosis / prognosis **** if I recall correctly Cardiac infarct was ruled out in the report. The small amount of heart damage was attributed to other causes. Interestingly all the meds were within therapeutic range except the Chloral Hydrate.
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