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Archive through October 11, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jan. 2007 ~ Mar. 2007: All Things Technical: The Help Desk: Digital Camera/Photography Help (ARCHIVES): Archive through October 11, 2006 users admin

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Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 5:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
I can't find this thread anywhere else, but I swear there was one before, so I'm assuming we lost it in a TVCH housecleaning.

Anyways...

I just bought a new camera, with a few manual settings and things that I know would be good, but I just don't fully understand. I was wondering if some of the shutterbugs on the site could point me in the right direction (I'm resisting the urge to be punny and say "point and shoot me in the right direction").

My new camera is an ultracompact one, that has "shutter priority", "aperture priority" "Manual" and other modes to shoot in. I tried to look up the difference between aperture and shutter speed, and I found one site that said that by lowering one, and raising another, you could get the same effect, and it gave a chart of sliding settings.

So my question becomes, what it the point of the differentiation? I ask this because I find that I sometimes take a bit blurry of pics, as if maybe I'm shaky. They aren't situation where a tripod is practical (like a party, or bar). I'm wondering why I couldn't just open up the aperture, and make it a fast shutter speed all the time.

How would that change the shot? It that an amateur guess at solving the blur problem?

PS - My new camera is the Casio EX-Z850. It just arrived yesterday, and I haven't played with it much yet.

Thanks in advance Jimmer (I know you'll be one of the responses) and anyone else who can lend some insight.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 6:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
LOL – You know I can't resist.

The aperture and shutter-speed combine to determine how much light hits the sensor.

The shutter-speed setting determines how long the shutter is open and the aperture determines how wide the lens is open. So for a given amount of light to hit the sensor, you can use a fast shutter-speed and a wide aperture, or a slower shutter-speed and a smaller aperture. By the way, the wider the aperture, the smaller the aperture number (it's opposite to what you might think).

The faster shutter-speed means that the light has less time to go through the lens so you have to use a wider aperture that allows more light to go through at once. And, vice versa.

So why not just use a wide aperture and a fast shutter-speed all the time? There are two big reasons why you might not want to use a wide aperture unless you need to. One reason is that the lens performance isn't as good at the widest apertures – the pictures won't be as sharp. The other reason is something called depth of field. Depth of field is the range in which objects are in focus. The depth of field is much narrower at wide apertures.

Now having said that, because of the way sensors are designed on the point and shoots (they are small), the lenses tend to have very short focal lengths which means that the depth of field is generally very wide regardless of the aperture. So with point and shoots the main reason for not constantly using a wide aperture all the time is picture quality. To get the best lens performance you generally want it to be a couple of stops under wide open.

So the best thing to do is use the best combination, given the lighting and the subject matter. If you are trying to stop motion and have lots of light, then a fast shutter-speed is great. If you are trying to stop motion and don't have a lot of light, you still go with a fast shutter-speed but the aperture will be wide. Or if you don't have enough light, then you can increase the ISO (which determines the sensor's sensitivity to light). The downside to increasing the ISO, though is high ISOs can make your image noisy. So it's all a matter of balancing out your options to get the best result.

Hope that helps a bit. Feel free to ask more if you like or if I said something that was confusing.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 10:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Or just set it on Auto and have another beer?

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 11:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
LOLOL!! Sounds good Juju!!! It's funny that we buy these cameras with all the bells and whistles, and then it's so much of a hassle to truly read the environment and change the settings for every picture, that we just flip it to AUTO. hahaha!!

The cool thing about this camera is that it has this "best shot" mode. It's funny because the dial label is just called BS. But you can choose among something like 36 different types of shots. Portrait, Landscape, Portrait WITH landscape, Candlelight, Party, Nightscene, Fireworks, NightPortrait, etc. You get the idea. I think I'll be using those a lot.

Jimmer, I think the big thing that stuck out for me was the "depth of field" thingy. I think because most amateur photographers don't really think "blur" is a good thing anywhere in the photo. But I was surfing some sites looking for answers, and found some good examples of how blurring a background is good for pictures of people. I think this rang true for me when I looked back at some party shots I had, and found that people in the background at the bar were more like distracting details, and maybe it would have been a better shot if they were blurred out, and my REAL SUBJECTS were the only super clear parts of the pic.

Another thing I don't understand is the metering. I have this multi-meter thingy, and it's three rows of three squares. If I point and half click, only certain squares will light up, and I guess that is what the camera has chosen to focus on. I was playing around with settings, and took about 15 pictures of my coffee table, and despite not moving, sometimes the camera would light up different squares, like it was choosing something different to focus on. I wonder how one could feel confident in that type of metering, if it is not consistent. I think it may be that I just don't understand metering. LOL



Oh here's a question: what's the difference with adjusting EV over the ISO? I know I'd want as many of my pics taken in 100 or 200 ISO, but how does EV play into it, and then does it come into play with the shutter and aperture settings too? How do I know WHAT situations I would adjust each setting in?

Thanks for the help Jimmer. I saw the long reply, and thought "Wow, he put a lot of time into it!" but then I realized it was probably EASY for you to type on a topic you know a lot about, and like so much. Thanks for the information!!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 12:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Oh no problem Eeyore. I LOL over Juju's answer though!

I don't know the specifics of your camera but to me it sounds like the green squares you are referring to that light up, are indicating where the camera is focusing. They aren't telling you much about exposure. Most point and shoot cameras aren't great at focusing (though they are getting better). The good thing about them though is that you have so much depth of field that it often doesn't matter that much.

ISO determines how sensitive your sensor is to light. The higher the ISO, the more sensitive your sensor is to light, so you can take pictures in a darker setting with the same shutter-speed and aperture.

EV is a measurement of how much you are changing the light hitting the sensor. When you change EV on your camera (I think you mean exposure compensation), the camera either changes the shutter-speed (if you are in Aperture priority), the aperture (if you are in Shutter-speed priority), or either one if you are in program mode.

You usually need to use exposure compensation anytime a large part of the scene is unusually white or black (color wise I mean). The camera meter expects everything to be average so it tends to underexpose very white things like snow (making it gray) and overexpose anything that is black (making it gray). So you would use positive exposure compensation when shooting something against a snowy background.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 12:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
OK I have a question...

I've found with ALL of my cameras, that when I am taking pictures indoors, or people, the person is super-light because of the flash (I often change it to "soft flash"), and the background, including hair and the edges of the person are way too dark. Here's a quick example from last night:

c

It says I took it at

ISO 100 (which I know is one factor, but I thought I wanted more detail, less noise)

F2.8
1/30
Soft Flash
and the "light bulb" type of lighting for WB
and the exposure compensation was 0.0
and the histogram is very high on [<--- this side]

Any pointers as to how I can fix this, to light up a BIT of the area around my subject, without turning them into a super-white ghost with a higher powered flash?

Thanks in advance.

PS - due to file size limitations, I can't really upload a very detailed or big picture. Or at least I don't know how, without shrinking the dimensions.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 10:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Another question:

OK, so the higher in ISO you go, the more noise, and grain. I was taking some sunset pics tonight from my university, and I was wondering if I used the "self-timer" with the camera on a ledge so it doesn't have any "shake" to pick up, could I keep the ISO low, and open up the shutter to a longer time, so make sure it is exposed enough? EXample: put it on ISO 100, and then have a 1/15 shutter? Maybe with an adjusted f-stop as well? It's "infinity" focus, so depth of field wouldn't be an issue in the case of a sunset, would it?

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 10:03 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
To answer your second question first, using the self-timer and a slower shutter-speed and lower ISO is a great method as long as your subject is not moving. Works great for sunsets!

Unfortunately, the problem that you are seeing with your flash is a problem that happens with all point and shoot cameras. The direct on camera flash is very harsh and it over powers the subject nearest the camera but doesn't cast enough light on the subject farther away from the camera. So you've got too much light in one place and not nearly enough in another. The way that pros get around that problem is to use one or more high-powered flashes (not the on camera flash) and use some sort of method to diffuse the light (spread the light around evenly).

So what can you do about it? Well you'll never be able to get the same results as a pro <wink> but there are some things you can do to improve the situation.

You're already using a very slow shutter-speed and wide aperture so there isn't much you could do in that area other than increase the ISO. So the best thing to do is turn on more lights in the room (if possible) and make sure that your subjects are equal distance from the camera. You may also need to use some flash exposure compensation if your camera lets you.

The final thing you can do is fix it in PhotoShop (see below).

TestFix

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Ahhh.....so I'm not horrible for relying on picture programs for manipulating photos....LOL

I find that with THAT photo, I could raise the brightness and contrast, and I get a bit more of the background.

Now...if only I could master (read: learn the basics of) Photoshop.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Well nothing beats getting a good result out of the camera. However, I also think that it is important to realize that even with film cameras, the film and prints were processed. A good lab could make a huge difference (again why pro labs charge(d) more money). So some people have the notion that somehow post-processing is wrong, when in fact it has always been done!

Good PhotoShop techniques can give amazing results.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 12:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
I took a bazillion sunset pics last night, after leaving class. This is the view from my university. Nice huh?

h

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 6:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Abby7 a private message Print Post    
i NEED to purchase a digital camera asap.

i just want a quality, EASY TO USE camera w/all the accessories. i will purchase online. i also need to buy it so the camera is delivered by October 27. (i'm reserving a hotel suite in Hollywood for my Mom, sis', dh and i to celebrate Mom's 86th birthday and want to take photos. i'm tired of buying those cheap throw away cameras.)

since i want it asap, i don't care about bargains..but a sale would be nice.

i'm posting here, hoping someone can just give me a brand/model # of a camera they recommend; one that i can buy online.

ALSO, i promise when that day comes when i attend my first TVCH meeting (or meet my first TVCH member)....i will take this camera and take lots of photos. (can't promise how they will turn out though lol).

i would like to spend no more than $300, but will if necessary.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 7:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I'm sure someone will recommend one specific model or another but I can provide a few general (but IMO important) suggestions.

My first suggestion is go to a camera store and actually hold a few of the models and see how they appeal to you. There is nothing like looking at it in person. If you buy online, buy from a reputable company (like B & H). Do not buy from just anyone. If it sounds like an incredible deal that is too good to be true – it is too good to be true. You will be ripped off! There are an awful lot of scams online.

Remember to get a decent amount of memory (which will be extra) and an extra battery (so you always have one fully charged up so you don't miss key pictures if your battery runs out). Some models take rechargeable AA batteries which can be very convenient – but they are usually a bit larger and you'll have to buy the batteries and charger separately.

As far as specific makes go, I would stick with major brand names like Canon, Nikon and Olympus. With respect to models, it all depends on what you are looking for. Don't get too hung up over megapixels – you won't see a big difference between 5 and 8 megapixels. Then you have to think about what is important to you – size, lens quality, number of manual features, etc.

Hope that helps a bit.

Oh and I like your sunset Eeyore. There are a lot of good photo ops in Vancouver!

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 7:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Abby7 a private message Print Post    
thank you so much jimmer. right after i posted, i called my Mom to give her some specifics about "our" plans for her visit. i just got off the phone, came to TVCH and read your post.

at this point, i don't have the time to go to a store. i'm happy w/buying "anything". i figure, after about a year or two of "playing" w/the camera i'll be ready for an upgrade...so, by that time i will know what i want/don't want.

i won't complain if i'm not happy w/my purchase. i'll be happy to buy whatever someone might suggest at this point. i know i couldn't do better on my own.

jimmer, yes, it does help. thanks again.

juju, i know you are the queen of bargains. at this point, i'm not looking for a bargain though. however, i've always trusted your opinions too (meaning all tvch'ers). any suggestions, juju? i sent you a PM before i even posted here (twice, but deleted it twice). i'm not asking for you to do a search for cameras. just, do you have a recommendation for what i want? if so, can i purchase it online?

just so you all know,i won't complain in any way if i'm not happy w/any purchase/camera you might recommend. tia

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 7:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Abby7 a private message Print Post    
Jimmer: thanks, especially for this:

Remember to get a decent amount of memory (which will be extra) and an extra battery (so you always have one fully charged up so you don't miss key pictures if your battery runs out). Some models take rechargeable AA batteries which can be very convenient – but they are usually a bit larger and you'll have to buy the batteries and charger separately.

As far as specific makes go, I would stick with major brand names like Canon, Nikon and Olympus. With respect to models, it all depends on what you are looking for. Don't get too hung up over megapixels – you won't see a big difference between 5 and 8 megapixels. Then you have to think about what is important to you – size, lens quality, number of manual features, etc

------------------

Jimmer, from what you posted above: ill check out nikon, olympus, canon. get most memory i can, extra battery. thank you.

i'm going to wait until tomorrow night to buy something. i need to start dinner and pack up a few things for my public storage space right now. (eek, dh, kitty and i have outgrown our temporary quarters for way too long!)

thanks again.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 8:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
My camera is a Fuji S9000. I got a good discount through a special offer on the Dell site at the time I bought it (I had an older, smaller, less powerful Fuji that was just fine until I managed to drop it smack onto a hard marble floor at the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville, which I was touring with Reiki, Mak1 and Mr Mak. It would still take pics but the zoom was wonky.. and worse.

Anyway, my camera is probably way bigger than you want, heavy, but what a wonderful grip it has.. very very comfy to hold.. 12 megapixels.. overkill.. I should get an external flash, so says Michael and Meggie (and Jimmer would agree, I'm sure) and the camera has the show for that. It uses 4 batteries and takes two kinds of memory cards. Just today I got a new Compact Flash card at Fry's Electronics that is 4 GIGS! and after rebate it will cost me $39.

Probably too much camera?

When I was at the CHOC Walk on Sunday, the mother of the two delightful young men I met had a compact camera that she ADORED.. it was new and had been a present from her husband. It was probably 3" x 5"? and had a huge display on it!! She told me she's been very happy with the results. I think she said it was 8 mexapixels, which is good. There was a lense that stuck out a bit from it but I didn't get info on possible zoom feature. It was a Sony, not sure what model.

(my camera has a 10.7x OPTICAL zoom f=6.2 - 66.7mm 1:2:8 -4.9 phi 58mm

(LOL.. I have no idea what that all means but know optical zoom is important.. digital zoom means less)

I love that mine has the display viewfinder but also a regular viewfinder that you look through.. I prefer that

And yeah, I'm betting Juju has some info.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 8:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I know we had a great thread on this topic but it must have been archived and is gone??

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 9:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Abby7 a private message Print Post    
sea, i remember that thread too. i'm sure there is something. however, at this point, i'm willing to just buy whatever tvch suggests. like i said, i KNOW/TRUST these opinions more than my own...so, i won't complain about it.

the photos you posted for the Childrens Hospital were just great.

no,not too much camera (well, what do i know lol!)

i'm going to go check a few websites to see if i can find the FujiS9000, 12 mexapixels, external flash, compact flash card 4 GIGS. i have no idea what i just typed..but it sounds fantastic (because you said so). lol the only thing i'm confused about is the battery. all i know about batteries is that i don't want the battery to die on me. also, i don't want to have to worry about keep buying batteries because i'm worried about them dying on me.

dh has a much better idea than i do...i'm sure. he's sitting next to me, but i'm not going to ask him...he just wants me to buy what i want.

okay, i'm going to check out circuit city, best buys (is that the name?) and a few others. be right back.

thank again!

eta: again, i only want to pay $300 and i have no idea what i "want" costs.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 9:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Abby, I got THE MOST AMAZING deal on eBay. It was pretty unbelievable if you ask me.

I got a Casio EX850, 8.1 megapixel camera. It is one of the Editors' top picks on cnet.com.

The thing that made it an AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING deal was that I got a 4 gigabyte memory card with it, and the grand total, including shipping was 379. The card alone is at least 200 dollars, and the camera alone is usually 350 American.

Plus they gave me a nice case and LCD screen protector.


When the deal is too good to be true, I'm soooooo wary. The guy had pretty great feedback for someone with 8000 sales.

I took the chance on the deal, because up in Canada, the camera is STILL More expensive than 379 US.

I checked the card out when it came, and it COMEPLETELY was above board, and fits the full 4 gigs of data on it, without corruption, and I checked it in 3 different computers.

Seriously, I can't find a better deal than that. Most people I tell it to, are amazed.

The camera is very small, and fits in my back pocket pretty nicely.

It has a lot of "snapshot" or "preset" ways of taking pictures, AND, if you ever feel like experimenting, you can also switch to a ton of manual settings to adjust for things.

Now, I've only had this camera since Friday, but I've already taken about 300 pictures, and I carry it everywhere. The day shots are just phenomenal, and I'm pretty happy with them. That said, the night shots on this camera do have more noise than some other models, but nothing that is visible in a small picture. Only if you blow it up to 8x10 do you see grain.

I really like this camera because it is well-rated, and had an unbeatable deal. Most of my pics are daytime, or well lit, so the grain isn't that big of a deal. And flash photos don't have too much grain because they are also well-lit.

I would recommend this camera. However, if you're looking for something very low maintenance, with a very basic feature-set, take a look at the Canon model. It takes spectacular pictures, but you lose out on the option of using manual settings like in the Casio.

The guy I bought from on eBay was "techtoysforless" and I ordered last Monday night, it shipped out Tuesday afternoon (with tracking number for me to follow), and it arrived here in Canada Friday afternoon.

The guy was good too, he put that it was a "gift" on the customs slip, and valued the camera at 100$ so I didn't have to pay a lot of duty.

Check out cnet.com for really easy to understand reviews of different cameras, and you can read by megapixel, or by price range.

Good luck!!

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 10:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Abby7, you are in luck! I just bought a camera. It is great, easy to use, around $200, on sale, of course. Hang on a minute while I get you the details!

I think I went to cnet.com and searched there for best compact camera.

One of the things I like about it is it has a viewfinder, which more and more cameras are not having anymore so they can cram more stuff in smaller spaces, but a viewfinder is a lifesaver when it is bright out and you can't see a thing on your LCD screen.

Be back in a minute. I am getting some stuff together for you.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 10:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I agree 100% on the value of the viewfinder!!

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 10:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Oh hell, Abby7, you are breaking my heart! I thought I got a great deal at $199 with a $20 off coupon. I bought it online at circuitcity.com. Just went there now. It is now on sale for $144 from regular price of $269.

HP R717, 6 megapixel, 3x optical zoom.

http://tinyurl.com/qxolo

I did not get an extra battery. It has its own propietary lithium ion battery, which you charge in the camera with an A/C adapter that comes with the camera. I am very good about keeping my camera fully charged, so an extra battery is not a concern to me.

Yes, you will need a bigger camera card immediately. It takes an SD card, which is a very common kind. All the office supply stores carry them. From memory, Office Max has the best deal on SD cards this week. :-) I would get one or two 1 Gb cards.

This camera takes great pictures. It is very easy to use. It is absolutely adequate for an amateur user. Go look in my folder for some sample pictures. They might be an archive or two back.

My neighbor had a new digital camera about six months ago, and he sent me some photos. I was impressed, and meant to ask him what kind of new camera he had. They had us over for a little party a month ago, after I had just got my new HP R717. His camera looked just like mine! It was an HP R617, the model one earlier than mine! LOL.

I won't go look for it now, but Bigdog just got a new Consumer Reports, and they had digital cameras rated this month. I can look in it tomorrow, if you like. Put a note in my member folder if you want me to.

Hope this helps.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
What was the price on the SD?
Fry's Electronics has, through tomorrow, SD 2 GB cards.. your choice of SD or mini SD for $39 each, limit one per customer.

I just happened to have kept the ad from going there today to get my 4GB Compact Flash.. I'm loving the idea of that much space.. I've been using a 512mb card. And my which I bought just before Spy's wedding.. Draheid found a great price and then Fry's came in under that.. but prices keep dropping, yes!

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
LOL Sea - I had a 256 mb sony card with my last 5MP camera. I could only get 40 pictures or so, before I'd have to sync the card. It was the card upgrade that started me considering whether it was worth it to buy a new card for my old cam. Then I started thinking I wanted a smaller camera.

My Casio has a viewfinder. The Canon doesn't. I'm far-sighted, so I NEED the view finder, as I have trouble truly focusing on the LCD screen while I'm taking the pics. The viewfinder helps me focus further away.

Juju, I'd love to hear what your Consumer Reports mag says about the ultra-compacts....thanks in advance!!!

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Abby.. there is a Fry's Electronics in Burbank, 2311North Hollywood Way, 818/526-8100 .. I think that is your closest location.

Frys.com or outpost.com They have what looks like Eeyore's camera.. but they call it Casio EX-Z850 8/1 megapixel

Detailed Description [return to top]

8.1 megapixel CCD and retracting 3X optical zoom lens Large 2.5-inch, super bright TFT LCD display Super Life Battery allows up to approximately 440 still images per charge The EXILIM Engine features the Anti Shake DSP, which reduces blurring caused by shaky hands or moving subjects Once powered on, the camera is ready to take pictures in approximately 1.0 second A bright, easy-to-see display monitor allows for easy shooting under low light conditions .. in stock same day shipping.

They have Juju's camera for $249.90 on the site

HP PHOTOSMART R717

HP:
Outpost #: 4413806
6.2 megapixel and 24x total zoom HP precision 3x optical lens, 8x digital. Automatically bring bring out details normally lost in shadows using HP adaptive lighting. Remove red-eye, preview panorama shots shots and get photo-taking tips--all in-camera. Transfer photos, recharge the in-camera battery, and view slideshows on your TV. Small enough to fit in your pocket, this stylish camera features a durable, stainless steel front. View photos and menus on a 1.8-inch LCD. A unique grip keeps the camera steady for quick, one-handed shots. Add creative touches with manual controls. Get optimized photos using 12 shooting modes, including action, sunset and more.

Clearly the deals Eeyores and Juju have presented are much better for those items.

But their in store price on memory is vastly better than their online price.. best to look at Fry's ads if one is going to the store.

====

Juju, that grip sounds interesting.. grip is very important, IMO.. a little rectangle isn't always optimal for taking pictures.