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Archive through May 02, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jan. 2007 ~ Mar. 2007: Health Center: Spinal Issues: Archive through May 02, 2006 users admin

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Ginger1218
Member

08-31-2001

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ginger1218 a private message Print Post    
When I fell down the steps during the fire, I injured my neck and my knee. I had an MRI of my neck and it showed herniated discs. I dealt with it, then my knee needed surgery, which threw out my back and I discovered that I have severe spinal stenosis and spondyliothesis (probably will need surgery in some years), but I have been getting physical therapy on my knee and back and that has been better, BUT my neck has been hurting me so bad that I cannot turn my neck. So my doctor sent me for another MRI of the Cervical spine. It is bad -- the herniated disc has slipped and is now extruding and pressing on the spinal cord. I have to see a Neurosurgeon. I may have to have surgery. If not surgery, something must be done, because if something happens I could become paralyzed (God forbid).
Every friggin day, it is something new.
I have to say - that fire destroyed my whole life.
I am very disgusted.
Just venting

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 7:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
((((((((GINGER!))))))))))

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wendo a private message Print Post    
Sorry to hear of your continued problems Ginger. I had an extruded herniated disc at C6-C7 and small protrusion at C4-C5. (Protrusion means the disc is herniated but that the material in the disc is confined into the disc space. An extrusion is when the material moves beyone the space and affects the nerves outside the disc space.)

I went for conservative care initially for the C6-C7 issue, epidural steroid injections (didn't experience any pain or sensation loss with C4-C5.) I had two and when I went back for the third it was determined that I just didn't gain any improvement.

I then went to a neurosurgeon and had an ACDF (anterior cervical disc fusion) on the C6-C7; I was experiencing a loss in sensation down my right arm into my index and middle fingers. Since I'm right handed, I just couldn't risk permanent damage to those nerves.

Anyway, I would consider my ACDF surgery a success in that my fingers are pretty much normal; sometimes they feel a tad less sensitive. I lost about 10% range of motion in my neck; mostly when I move my head to the left. However, I do have mild pain and stiffness in my neck some days, mostly in the morning. And, occassionally, I do experience some severe pain; but not too often; mostly in the form of headaches etc.

Every case is different, as you know, and you'll certainly have to make a decision that's right for you; one that you'll discuss with your doctors.

Sorry, again, about your continued problems. That just plains sucks.

Ginger1218
Member

08-31-2001

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 3:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ginger1218 a private message Print Post    
Wendo, tell me how bad was the surgery, the recuperation, pain, etc.?

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 3:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wendo a private message Print Post    
Ginger, as you know, every surgery is different for different people. For me, the surgery wasn't that bad. I was in the hospital for two nights. I was in an Aspen collar for six weeks; after which I started taking it off an hour the first day, two the second, and so on until I no longer needed it.

Because I chose to use my own bone as donor bone, my hip was a lot more sore than my neck (which really wasn't that bad.) Nerves are close on the hip so that was rather painful.

Honestly, it wasn't that bad. I also started physical therapy after a couple weeks and that helped in my recovery.

I'd say the worst part of it for me was the hip pain (where they took the donor bone) and sleeping with the Aspen collar; that was uncomfortable. But, other than that, it wasn't so bad. (Actually, I lost weight too since I wasn't very hungry and kept to mostly liquids.)

The surgery itself wasn't too bad; they go in via the anterior (front) and all that's left is a small scar. (I did have a bad reaction to the tegaderm bandage; it broke my skin down in one place.)

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 6:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Ginger, that damned fire!

I have arthritis in my hips, spondylitis, spinal stenosis--and herniated lumbar disks at L-3 and L-4 (just above the butt a bit). No neck pain, thank goodness.

I have pain in my back when I bend, stand and walk (not when I sit). I still walk, though. Making beds is almost intolerable. Loading and unloading the dishwasher, washer and dryer is very painful. Vacuuming is out. I wash the dishes sitting on a very comfortable kitchen stool.

I have had two cortisone injections for the herniated disks with no relief. I did experience some relief when I stuck to the macrobiotic, organic diet (dunno why) my dd started me on, but I have been backsliding, and the pain is back big-time. So I am trying to ease my way back onto the diet.

I will be following what happens with you here, Ginger, so keep us in the loop. And good luck!

Wow, Wendo, I had no idea. You explained everything so clearly that I am sure it helped Ginger. I'm glad to hear that you did so well with the surgery.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 6:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wendo a private message Print Post    
Herck, now lumbar issues are something else entirely (it's a much more serious surgery too.)

Unless there was a high chance of paralysis or cauda equina syndrome, I would NOT have surgery to repair herniated discs in the lumbar (or thoracic) region. It's just a much, much more complicated surgery with many more risks. (At least, not until artificial disc replacement is approved and widely accepted; it's in trials now.)

My sympathies Herck; lumbar disc hernations are not fun.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 6:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Thanks, Wendo. I have always been told that I am not a surgical patient (that it wasn't bad enough). But geez, I can't imagine what it must be like if it is worse! Not whining; just serious. Hmmmph. Is it too difficult for them to wave a magic wand and make this go away? Crimping my style here.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 6:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wendo a private message Print Post    
Someday they will. In our lifetime? I don't think so.

You wouldn't want surgery anyway; not until disc replacement is available. Lumbar surgery, from the research I read sucks big time.

Biloxibelle
Member

12-21-2001

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biloxibelle a private message Print Post    
My dad fell after the hurricane and fractured his back. At the time and up til the present he has had nothing done other then pain pills.

On his last doctor visit the doctor recommended a new procedure they are now doing. It is done in the Radiology departmemnt of the hospital. The Radiologist drills small holes in the spine. He then injects concrete into the spine where the disk are injured. The procedure has a name this <--------------> long that I don't remember.

We have not gone to see the Radiologist as of yet. I have asked other doctors if they heard of it and they say yes. It is supposedly safe, no surgury required. Very little to no recovery time as the site is only numbed. They think dad is a good candidate for it and he is 88 years old. It is mostly used for pain control as it raises the injured disks. I do know the doctor said it is only available to people that certain disk are involved.

If I find out anything else I will be glad to post it. Or if anyones knows what I'm talking about I would love to hear more about it.

Landi
Member

07-29-2002

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Landi a private message Print Post    
holly had another series of back x-rays today. she's had some severe back pain which is now leading to hip pain. this is all due to her scoliosis. just a small curve that now seems to be getting worse. <sigh> poor kid, just can't just live a nice normal life.

Biloxibelle
Member

12-21-2001

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biloxibelle a private message Print Post    
My dad fell after the hurricane and fractured his back. At the time and up til the present he has had nothing done other then pain pills.

On his last doctor visit the doctor recommended a new procedure they are now doing. It is done in the Radiology departmemnt of the hospital. The Radiologist drills small holes in the spine. He then injects concrete into the spine where the disk are injured. The procedure has a name this <--------------> long that I don't remember.

We have not gone to see the Radiologist as of yet. I have asked other doctors if they heard of it and they say yes. It is supposedly safe, no surgury required. Very little to no recovery time as the site is only numbed. They think dad is a good candidate for it and he is 88 years old. It is mostly used for pain control as it raises the injured disks. I do know the doctor said it is only available to people that certain disk are involved.

If I find out anything else I will be glad to post it. Or if anyones knows what I'm talking about I would love to hear more about it.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Thanks, Wendo. I always wondered why they couldn't go in and glue them up or something.

Wow, Biloxibelle, that is terrific news! But it sounds like a spinal thing rather than a disk thing. No one has mentioned this procedure to me (nor has anyone given me pain pills-grr). Do let us know here. I will check on my beloved Ivanhoe.com to see if there is some news there. (I haven't been scanning the issues regularly as I was; need to do that.)

Mamie316
Member

07-08-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamie316 a private message Print Post    
landi, I'm sorry that Holly is suffering so much. My niece had to wear a horrid brace for a few years because of her scoliosis. I think it was some kind of torture contraption. I'm hoping that Holly can get some kind of relief.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
landi, I missed your post. Gosh, that kidlet has been handed a plateful of things to contend with, hasn't she? Poor thing--and just when fitting in and looking pretty is so important to a girl. Do you think they'll put her in a brace or operate?

Landi
Member

07-29-2002

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Landi a private message Print Post    
well right now, it's just to see what the degrees of curvature are. but as you said, she's been handed a plateful. it's always felt like one thing after another. since we were going in for the recheck on her wrist. btw, she's out of PE for the rest of the school year. she's in a new splint for the wrist, but out of the cast. she has a GYN appt on monday to deal with her painful periods. (she misses a day out of school a month for them). and the back. we'll hear soon i'm sure. i'm starting to think alternative medicine pretty soon, cuz the answers of regular medicine seem to be pills, pills, and more pills.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
(((((Belle's dad and Landi's daughter)))))

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 9:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
I had terrible pain at that time of the month, too. I always tell anyone who has really bad pain with their periods to get checked for endometriosis.

(Mine was discovered way too late--when I was having a hysterectomy. But all those unnecessary years of pain--when I was popping Naproxen like crazy--which adversely affected my intestines in the long run. Sheesh.)

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 1:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
Biloxi, I would love to find out the name of that proceedure. My mil has horrible spinal probs.
Landi, I think our kids are made for each other but they will need really good insurance! LOL

Ginger1218
Member

08-31-2001

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 3:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ginger1218 a private message Print Post    
Herck, I have a lumbar problem as well as the cervical. They also wanted to operate on my lower back, but I will not do that. At least not in the near future. But, right now the neck problem is much more serious. I am still searching for the right Neurosurgeon to see.

Landi
Member

07-29-2002

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 6:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Landi a private message Print Post    
holly's back pain isn't associated with her monthly pain. although she has terrible cramps that waylay her during that time of the month. she has a definite curve to her back that started as a freshman in high school. never seen before that.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 7:42 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Source: Ivanhoe.com
Reported December 3, 2000


No More Neck Pain Dr.'s Q&A



In this Dr.'s Q&A session, J. Patrick Johnson, M.D., explains how researchers are treating patients who have herniated discs with a procedure that reduces recovery time.

Ivanhoe Broadcast News Interview Transcript with

J. Patrick Johnson, M.D., Neurosurgeon
UCLA Medical Center, Los Angeles, California

TOPIC: NO MORE NECK PAIN



What is a herniated disk?

Dr. Johnson: A disk is like a cushion between the two vertebrae. There's a firm outer part and the inside is kind of soft. What happens is that there's a tear in the outer part and the soft part can come out and push against the nerve or the spinal cord. So, it tears the cushioning part of the vertebra.


Tell me about the anterior cervical foraminotomy.

Dr. Johnson: Anterior cervical is a fancy term for the little tunnel where the nerve comes out of the front of the spine. The cervical spine in the neck is where people can have either a herniated disk or a little bone spur that may be pressing on the nerve and giving them a lot of problems with neck pain or arm pain. Traditional operations would be done from the backside where you can't really see things very well. However, in the past 20 years, most of the operations have been done through the front of the neck where they remove the whole disk and do a fusion operation. There are some consequences if you do a fusion on the spine. Some people have a little bump that pushes on the nerve. With an anterior cervical foraminotomy, we can do this kind of anterior approach, or an alteration where we go right next to the nerve and the vertebra. We simply trim out the little bone spur, or pluck out the little piece of disk that's pressing the nerve and leave the whole disk alone. The operation is short with a short recovery. Results can be very dramatic in some people with a lot of severe pain.


Who would be an ideal patient for this procedure?

Dr. Johnson: The ideal patient is probably the younger patient who has a herniated disk and a soft fragment disk that is relatively new. Those are the types of people who get better with all the other operations. However, the beauty about this operation is that we go to where the disk and nerve are and take out the piece of disk. We leave the spine functioning and leave motion in the vertebra.


Is there any loss of motion at all?

Dr. Johnson: Theoretically, there shouldn't be any loss of motion because the disk itself is a little portion in the inside that has come out. We've done some of the tests by bending X-rays in the neck, or bending it back and forth to see whether they go on to actually fuse. We have found that they don't.


What does it mean when they do a fusion and take out the whole disk?

Dr. Johnson: Doing a fusion means the entire disk between two vertebrae is removed. We scrape out the entire disk and roughen the surfaces to place a piece of bone that's either taken out of the patient's hip or a bone bank. It causes a fusion the two vertebrae to simply grow and glue themselves together. Oftentimes, we use a little metal plate. In this case, it's a longer operation and much more involved. It does change the mechanics of the neck where 10 to 20 years down the road, some people require another operation.


Is there a downside to anterior cervical foraminotomy, and is there a risk of recurring herniated disks?

Dr. Johnson: That's a good question because it's very true in the lumbar area of the lower back. Somebody may have a herniated disk that, if you just take out the piece that's pushing on the nerve and don't remove the rest of the soft inner portion, they can have a recurrence. However in the cervical area or in the neck, the amount of disk material that can come out is very little. Once you take out that fragment of disk that's giving them a problem, the chance of them having another one is exceedingly low.


How soon after the operation are results noticed?

Dr. Johnson: It depends on what condition the person has. If they have a bone spur that's been pushing on their nerve for a number of years, it takes a little while for the nerve to recover. A little while meaning weeks or even a couple of months before they get complete relief. If somebody has an acutely herniated disk, which is where a fragment of the disk comes out and pushes on the nerve, it's a short duration of recovery time.


What kind of scar does the operation leave?

Dr. Johnson: We have to leave a little scar in the crease of the neck. We go through a one-inch incision. The incision disappears after a few months and blends in with the crease in the neck.


Is this sort of problem in the neck caused by an injury, or does it just kind of happen?

Dr. Johnson: Sometimes a herniated disk happens out of the blue. Some people just wake up in the morning and say they have this funny feeling in their neck. Sometimes it's related to an injury or an accident. However, half the time people say, "I woke up in the morning and had this neck and arm pain." Bone spurs are a more chronic degenerative arthritic process that people may develop over years' time and then get a little worse and achy. There are two different disease processes that manifest themselves in the same way. They may cause some pain in the base of the neck and radiate down the arm.


Is this operation being done by a lot of surgeons?

Dr. Johnson: It's an old operation that has actually been rediscovered. It was done back in the 1960s and reported in a limited fashion. A few different surgeons performed it in the 1970s and a couple in the 1980s. Then, one of my colleagues in Pittsburgh wrote a paper and revived the interest in this surgical procedure. I started performing the operation about four or five years ago.


Why was there a loss of interest in doing it?

Dr. Johnson: I think the diagnostic capabilities of modern technology with MR scanning and CT scanning and also the surgical techniques, have allowed us to understand the problem better. It's a very refined procedure that specifically removes about a thumbnail of bone from the vertebra. This allows access to where a small fragment of disk is that's about the size of a grain of brown rice. This can cause a lot of misery and symptoms. So, its refinement of the techniques is why it has evolved from the previous studies and tests that were done back in the 1970s and 1980s.

Ginger1218
Member

08-31-2001

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 9:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ginger1218 a private message Print Post    
Very informative Herck - Thanks

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 9:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Source: Ivanhoe.com
Reported June 12, 2000


Repairing Fractured Spines


CHICAGO (Ivanhoe Newswire) -- Nearly 1 million osteoporosis patients suffer from fractures of the spine each year. The injuries are painful and often limit mobility. Traditional treatment includes bed rest and a brace, but a new procedure helps fix the fracture and gets patients back on their feet in a matter of days.

woman

Eighty-year-old Rita Picken has osteoporosis. While experiencing bone loss and becoming susceptible to fractures, she took a terrible fall last year and crushed two vertebrae along her spine. "It was a severe ache. It was, at times, a burning pain," says Rita.

Rita's doctor suggested she undergo a new procedure called kyphoplasty. Frank Phillips, M.D., an orthopedic surgeon with the University of Chicago in Illinois, says the procedure helps stabilize and straighten the spine while eliminating pain.

"I tell patients it's the only spine procedure I do that patients actually feel better the day I operate on them," says Dr. Phillips.

2

During kyphoplasty, doctors make a small incision into the skin, creating a pathway to the fractured vertebra. An instrument called a balloon tamp is inserted and inflated. It pushes the collapsed bone back into place. The balloon is then removed, and a substance called bone cement is injected, securing the vertebra in its proper position.

"The cement that we use has been used for many, many years in orthopedics and is well-tolerated and does not degenerate or deteriorate over time," says Dr. Phillips.

Most patients are hospitalized for a day or two.

Rita says, "I'm not as young as I used to be." Yet she's resumed her favorite activities. And the big difference now: she's free of pain.

Kyphoplasty is currently available at approximately 20 spine centers across the United States. Cost for the procedure and your hospital stay starts at about $10,000. You should check with your individual health care provider to see if the procedure is covered.


If you would like more information, please contact:

Marrion Campbell-Hupp
University of Chicago Spine Center
4646 North Marine Drive
Chicago, Illinois 60640
(773) 564-5185

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 9:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Ginger, glad you found it helpful/reassuring.