Author |
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 8:22 am
These people were on our news last night. The woman could not believe that the airline actually asked them to get off the plane. There were two of them and they together could not pick up the child and buckle her in? It wasn't the fact that she was screaming, it was she wasn't buckled into her own seat. Totally inconsiderate of the other passengers. I bet everyone applauded when they were kicked off.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 8:41 am
Well there goes my thinking that they would reflect and have some sense of responsibility. We all have times that our kids behavior makes us cringe and after the fact we think of ways we could have handled it better. That they still think the other passengers should have HAD to listen to screaming and the flight crew should have HAD to break safety rules because of their daughter is unbelievable. Who wants to bet on what happens when this child doesn't want to sit in her car seat? Being on a plane is a very cool thing for most kids and would in itself be a distraction. That level of tantrum tells me that this can't possibly be the first time the issue has arisen. I bet we all know parents like this. Most of the time they use the same reasoning.. we love our child SOOOO much we just can't bring ourselves to say no. I would say the opposite, if you loved your child more then you need their approval then you would make sure you prepared them for real life by giving them a measure of self-discipline. At the end of the day, it's very self-serving to give in to every whim and demand.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 8:43 am
That's what I could not understand. I know it was not the crying, it was the fact that they could not or did not buckle her in. I wish they would have revealed which it was. Jeeze, just overpower her, (she looked like an average 3 year old, pretty tiny really) buckle her in and distract her... Seems like the whole thing did not need to happen. Not sure of the whole story, but it seems that the 3 year old was telling the parents what to do (which was to NOT buckle her in.)
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Wapland
Member
08-01-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 9:11 am
"Jeeze, just overpower her, (she looked like an average 3 year old, pretty tiny really) buckle her in and distract her.." Julie,I do not understand how this suggested response would be any different than the mother in the church scenario? JMHO The airline's reaction in removing the family was an appropriate one for the child, family and other passengers. They did not judge the parents actions towards their child, they simply responded to their FAA safety policy for everyone concerned. I agree with Spy. Unfortunate behaviour, but one which has consequences in that situation. Fondly, Wappy
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:00 am
Oh my, it way way way different. To overpower a three year old to get him/her buckled in is not being abusive. Of course you have to be strong and gentle. I cannot tell you how many times buckling my toddler into his carseat was a struggle. But I was never abusive about it.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:10 am
I just don't think there's enough information here to even try to take a stab at what was right or wrong or whatever. The parents may just not know how to parent very well; the child may have some kind of undiagnosed behavioral problem; we don't know how long she was screaming; we don't even know the source of her upset. Was she scared? Being willful? It's just so hard to know or even guess. I think the airlines not only followed appropriate procedures, but went above and beyond in giving additional round trip tickets. That's just what a business should do. As for the parents, any time you are publicly embarrassed, many people will bluster about how it's not their fault to try and save face. <shrugs shoulders> It may not be very mature, but it is very human.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:15 am
Apparently on the trip down to Florida she was fine. The dad said he thought she did not want to go on a plane again though, as she had some ear pain with the landing of the previous flight. So I think she *may* have been somewhat worried about feeling pain again. I still think there is a world of difference between the church mom hitting, grabbing, pinching her child and overpowering a kid to get them safely buckled in. Another thing they never addressed is maybe they did buckle her in and she kept unbuckling herself. An airline belt is way easy to undo, unlike a carseat.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:27 am
I don't see the parent's inability to stop their little girl's upset as a particularly bad thing. Some little people can get extremely terrified or upset and can be quite inconsolable for a period of time. I think that the airline's reaction was appropriate and more than generous. I do have a problem with the parent's blaming the airline. Instead they should have thanked them for their consideration.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:30 am
Another thing they never addressed is maybe they did buckle her in and she kept unbuckling herself. An airline belt is way easy to undo, unlike a carseat. Then you put them back in the seat, buckle and HOLD the buckle so they can't undo it.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 10:46 am
Karuuna said "As for the parents, any time you are publicly embarrassed, many people will bluster about how it's not their fault to try and save face. <shrugs shoulders> It may not be very mature, but it is very human." Totally agree. My now 17 year old had a nightmare flight at age 2. Not screaming etal, she just sobbed in my arm the whole way that she didn't want to go to Disneyworld. The next day at Epcot she was in her stroller and out of the blue let out a scream like I have never heard before. We took her to a walk-in clinic... her eardrum had exploded. So probably was swollen and in pain on the flight. No point to that story, just thought I'd share. RFLOL
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 11:05 am
Julie, that makes sense and it's quite possible that she was afraid of feeling that pain again. That's how children think. I agree that kids that age can unbuckle themselves as fast as you can buckle them in. I'm not sure holding the seatbelt would work, it would only intensify the struggle. She would start biting or scratching, the other parent would have to hold her hands, etc. It would have been a nightmare for her, and she might never have flown again.... I also agree that the parents are making too much of it. The airline had a planeful of other customers to think about, some of whom had connecting flights. They did what they needed to do, and were very generous besides.
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Spygirl
Board Administrator
04-23-2001
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 2:12 pm
I'm definitely staying away from the discussion of whether the parents are good parents or not because I can't know. Instead, my "horse in this race" is that the parents are lashing out publicly against the airlines for merely following federal law. That's what I find absolutely absurd! But, I will say that the parents responses are not the kind of examples I'd want my child to see. They are kinda' throwing temper tantrums for being forced to do something they didn't want to do. Huh. Interesting. 
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 2:42 pm
Spygirl, I'm with you, although I will say that the parents would not be able to continue throwing their tantrum on every network if the media did not allow them.
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Chiliwilli
Member
09-04-2006
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 4:33 pm
All three need a good swat and the airlines needs to take back their free tickets.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 4:36 pm
I agree about following the law, though certainly many people are selective about which laws they care about and which they don't Many people simply don't want to hear the word "illegal" in connection with something and then it is ok to violate it. Perhaps these parents thought they would get away with paying for the seat and holding the child.. like they didn't get or care to get that it isn't the greedy airline wanting money for the child's fare/seat, or greedy travelers not wanting to sit in the third seat with the other seats jammed with kids on laps, but it is the airlines needing to have every thing and every person contained at takeoff and landing and if there is a problem or turbulencee because otherwise things and people become projectiles and can hurt others or get hurt. Same thing in a car. Baby is not the safest on mom's lap. Heck I used to refuse to sell a puppy unless the people were willing to buy and use a crate and if they had a pickup truck and no camper shell, that just didn't cut it. I found out the hard way with a lab on a front seat and having to stop quickly (but only going 25-30mph) and she cracked the windshield with her head. Luckily I was on the way TO the vet at the time and she was fine. Anyway, while I agree, just saying something is a law or regulation may not mean anything to some people, including this family. So they got a free return trip, a free round trip later and now they are getting media attention as well. The media like nothing better than a good tantrum.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 5:10 pm
When Em was small (around 2), her ears would bother her when we flew. I guess the air pressure bothered her ears. A Dr. recommended giving her a child's sinus/allergy pill (over the counter) to dry up the fluid in her ears. We flew to Michigan from Ft. Myers, and she was ok. (She had her own seat) However, on the return flight she started crying as the plane was taking off and tugging her ears. The people around us were horrified. Finally, I got out the child's sinus/allergy pill and gave it to her. A woman gave me a terrible look, as if it was something horrible to give her. Em quieted down after a while, and fell asleep. She wasn't thrashing or running around, but crying. (unlike that other little girl)
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 6:33 pm
my ENT told me to always use Afrin (or an Afrin generic) about 30 minutes before take-off and again just before descending because i have such bad eustachian tubes. otherwise, i end up crying from the pain and unable to hear when i am back on the ground.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 6:52 pm
And ear aches are the pits, too. My brother used to get them fairly often and the poor guy was so miserable..
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 9:13 pm
I mentioned this before, but to my astonishment our Doctor told us that the pain that one experiences from an ear ache is one of the most excruciating pains imaginable, roughly equivalent to kidney stones.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 9:15 pm
I've heard the same thing, Jimmer. A couple of years ago I had a bad cold that lead to infection and it went to my ears and head and I was just reduced to a puddle of whine. Thank goodness my doctor gave me good antibiotics and a strong shot! And thank goodness they got me in the very day I called.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 8:17 pm
when I took a SCUBA diving course, several of us had to descend very slowly and pause as we went down because of pain and pressure in our ears. Yes, it hurts!
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 9:46 pm
I always stayed away from scuba diving because I had so much trouble with my ears as a child. I seem to have a tougher time than other people clearing my ears on a plane. They are all talking to each other on descent, and I can't hear a darned thing. I can go into a near panic if I think a cold or sore throat is going to my ears. I know I need to get to a doctor fast and get some penicillin fast, or I am not going to be able to stand upright (balance depends on the inner ear).
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Friday, January 26, 2007 - 8:58 am
While I understand that if anyone has an ear infection, they need to see a doctor, I discovered a temporary fix for the imbalance problem until you can get there. Dramamine. I had to hold on to the walls to walk down the hall and had to call my dad to come get Travis, dress him and take him to daycare. He was the one to tell me about the Dramamine. It also works wonders on a hangover. I discovered by accident when I was in Puerto Vallarta many years ago. Our flight was early in the morning and I had way overindulged the night before to the point I was doing the Porcelain Waltz (come to think of it, that was the last time I really drank). I took the Dramamine to help with the motion sickness I get. By the time we got on the plane, I was like brand new.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Friday, January 26, 2007 - 9:51 am
NT, that's because dramamine is similar in effect to decongestants. Taking a decongestant on the plane will help with both ears and nausea also.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Friday, January 26, 2007 - 9:59 am
I am learning so much in here today 
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Chiliwilli
Member
09-04-2006
| Friday, January 26, 2007 - 7:02 pm
It's a good thing, Scooterrific. There will be a test.
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Irishtxgrl
Member
12-07-2005
| Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:55 pm
this is sooo informative
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