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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 3:31 am
It is the lumbar, and yes if it was just the disc they could do it minimally invasive, but the spondylolisthesis where there is movement in the bones and he said my spine is very unstable, must be fixed.
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Retired
Member
07-11-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 9:39 am
(((Ginger))) I'm so sorry to hear this. Hopefully you can have the surgery sooner than later.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 9:57 am
Ginger, do you get a second opinion? Wise to do so, even though I get it that you trust this one implicitly. As my PCP says, surgeons like to cut. That's what they do. I have spondylitis, stenosis of the spine, and 2 herniated disks, but I know some herniations are worse than others. I have always been told--which made me furious--that my herniations weren't 'bad' enough to warrant surgery. Course I was the one who couldn't walk for more than 5 minutes without having to sit down. PT and shots had no effect on the pain. But the nutrition (weight loss) approach worked for me (even though my orthopedic surgeon said it wouldn't). My PCP says for some, the weight loss approach works. For others, it does not. (Just so you know that I am not trying to persuade you one way or the other, just know that.) Just would like to ensure you get a second opinion, which is what your health insurer may request, anyway.
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 10:23 am
yes, I know, I am going to a neurologist this week and already had another opinion regarding the spondylolisthesis, wich is different that spondylitis and they all conclude that I need the surgery, I just put it off until this pain started. Now they want to see what the nerve involvement is. I am more afraid of having an EMG than I am of the surgery LOL Also, I am having a little panic attack wondering how they intubate a patient who is on her stomach do that do it on your back and then turn you over, I am sitting and obsessing on it.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 10:58 am
Don't obsess! I am sure you are out when they do it with you laying on your back and then just turn you over. But you will be asleep anyway, so won't know anything anyway. You can always ask the anesthesiologist when he/she comes in (as they always do, to go over things), anyway. I've had an EMG for carpal tunnel testing. Which of course, is minor in comparison to the back pain you're experiencing. But, I do know the feeling you experience from the electrical current. You will jump at first because you DO feel that electricity. But it really isn't that bad because they work in short spurts and it simply doesn't take all that long for them to determine where the problem lies. So it is manageable, I swear! You won't be bouncing off the hospital gurney, I promise. (Geesh, I hope not or you might come back here wearing boxing gloves and asking where I am!) When are you having the EMG done?
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:49 pm
I am seeing the Neurologist Thursday, so maybe that day. Sunday morning, another MRI
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 2:22 pm
Hi guys, Hope it's ok to throw my two cents into the pot too, Ginger. I have had many EMG's over the years. And I can honestly say none of them have been terribly painful. I admit, they are not comfortable but I have had none where I would hate the thought of having to have another one done. I do believe my physical medicine doc who did them all made a difference as far as how uncomfortable they were. He explained everything as we went along. He is a very gentle and honest man and I do believe his sensitivity really helped to cut down on the anxiety and discomfort. Maybe you should think about telling the person doing the EMG about your fears and ask them to really explain things along the way. I think it might help, maybe even help a lot. And as far as being intubated, I have had many surgeries. I was not aware of anything having to do with intubation except sometimes after surgery I would have a sore throat for awhile. And that only seemed to happen after very long surgeries. I remember after having close to a 14hr. spinal fusion surgery with lots of complications (had to end up having two spinal fusion surgeries), I did have a really bad sore throat. But, it did get better with time and everything got back to normal. I wish you the best Ginger and will definitely keep you in my thoughts and prayers! Please keep us posted and if there is anything I can do, just give me a holler. Peace to you!
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 2:30 pm
14 hours, wow, how do they turn you over when you are asleep? Does anyone know. The surgery is done while lying on your stomach
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 2:39 pm
Well Ginger, I can't honestly answer that. I would not be a good one for that question. Since I have the most severe form of Spina Bifada and cannot lay flat on my stomach or back, I wouldn't know the answer. Sorry. As far as I know, you go to sleep on your back, then are intubated (while asleep) and then I guess they just turn you over. Please don't go on my experience with two complicated fusions because I am not your typical patient since I have many health problems. The things that happened in my case are so, so rare and aren't things that would happen to you nor should you be worried about.
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 2:42 pm
I don't know how long the surgery will take Ginger, but I do know it will not be anywhere near the time it took for mine. It won't even be close, trust me.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 3:19 pm
Ginger, I know in some surgeries, the bed moves (it's like on hinges and can rotate 180 degrees). You will be wheeled into the OR and then put on the bed (it's really more of a narrow flat cushioned surface than a true bed) They will more than likely have given you something to make you a little woozy in your IV before you arrived in the OR..maybe not. I have been completely awake sometimes upon entering the OR (but that doesn't last long! LOL). when you are completely under they will intubate you, strap you down to the bed and then turn the bed. The bed allows them to be able to turn you right side up very quickly and with minimum movement to your spine/neck.
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 5:05 pm
Whew, thank you, that explains it. What I need to do is stop thinking about it and just think about the pain relief after (hopefully). I really will know a lot more after the MRI on Sunday and on Thursday when I see the neurologist.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, October 20, 2006 - 5:08 pm
(((ginger))))
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 4:33 pm
Went for the MRI this morning, when it was over and I was waiting for the films, the radiolost came over to me and told me that he compared it with the previous MRI from last year and that in addition to my problem with the instability (spondylolisthesis - which is a slippage of the vertebrae) that I have developed a Synovial Cyst which is a certain type of cyst which grows in the facet joint - which is commonly caused by the other problem and that this is what is now pressing on a nerve. So it can be removed during surgery, but I am going to ask if they can possibly aspirate it before surgery so I can have some relief before the surgery. I have to talk to the orthopedic surgeon and the neurologist on thursday. I am praying that maybe he will decide not to do an EMG. Meanwhile I am in a tremendous amount of pain right now, so I am gonna take pills and lay down.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 10:31 pm
I hope they can do that for you if you have to wait until January for the surgery, Ginger.
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Twinkie
Member
09-24-2002
| Monday, October 23, 2006 - 1:24 am
Ginger, an EMG is really not painful. In fact, I started laughing during mine because I kept jumping with each little shock. Please don't be afraid of it because its very useful to the doctor. I sure hope they can aspirate that cyst to ease the pain. You poor dear, if I was there I'd wait on you hand and foot so you didn't have to do anything but try to be comfortable. I really hope you get some relief soon.
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Retired
Member
07-11-2001
| Monday, October 23, 2006 - 11:59 am
(((Ginger))) Hope you get some relief soon.
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 5:27 pm
I went for the EMG today, I hated this test, but the good news is that there is not a tremendous amount of nerve damage - yet. But, from I guess all the nerve shocks today the pain is so intense I feel like jumping out the window. I am sitting here crying, I just don't know what to do anymore.l
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Wargod
Moderator
07-16-2001
| Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 5:50 pm
Aw {{{Ginger}}} I'm sorry you're in so much pain.
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Twinkie
Member
09-24-2002
| Friday, October 27, 2006 - 3:02 pm
Ginger, DRUGS! Take your pain pills!
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 6:08 am
The orthopedic surgeon called me and they are going to try to drain the synovial cyst (hopefully this week) to take the pressure off the nerve root and then we can do the surgery in January. Meanwhile, by then I will be a drug addict. The pain just gets worse and worse. I hope I can get to a doctor to do this this week. I will find out Monday.
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Mak1
Member
08-12-2002
| Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 11:18 am
{{{Ginger}}}
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:02 pm
Source: American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons Spondylolysis and Spondylolisthesis Description The most common X-ray identified cause of low back pain in adolescent athletes is a stress fracture in one of the bones (vertebrae) that make up the spinal column. Technically, this condition is called spondylolysis (spon-dee-low-lye-sis). It usually affects the fifth lumbar vertebra in the lower back, and much less commonly, the fourth lumbar vertebra. If the stress fracture weakens the bone so much that it is unable to maintain its proper position, the vertebra can start to shift out of place. This condition is called spondylolisthesis (spon-dee-low-lis-thee-sis). If too much slippage occurs, the bones may begin to press on nerves and surgery may be necessary to correct the condition. Risk Factors/Prevention Genetics: There may be a hereditary aspect to spondylolysis. An individual may be born with thin vertebral bone and therefore be vulnerable to this condition. Significant periods of rapid growth may encourage slippage. Overuse: Some sports, such as gymnastics, weight lifting and football, put a great deal of stress on the bones in the lower back. They also require that the athlete constantly over-stretch (hyperextend) the spine. In either case, the result is a stress fracture on one or both sides of the vertebra. Symptoms * In many people, spondylolysis and spondylolisthesis are present, but without any obvious symptoms. * Pain usually spreads across the lower back, and may feel like a muscle strain. * Spondylolisthesis can cause spasms that stiffen the back and tighten the hamstring muscles, resulting in changes to posture and gait. If the slippage is significant, it may begin to compress the nerves and narrow the spinal canal. Diagnostic tests X-rays of the lower back (lumbar) spine will show the position of the vertebra.
The pars interarticularis is a portion of the lumbar spine. It joins together the upper and lower joints. The pars is normal in the vast majority of children.
If the pars "cracks" or fractures, the condition is called spondylolysis. The X-ray confirms the bony abnormality.
If the fracture gap at the pars widens, then the condition is called spondylolisthesis. Widening of the gap leads to the fifth lumbar vertebra shifting. It shifts forward on the part of the pelvic bone called the sacrum. The doctor measures standing lateral spine X-rays. This determines the amount of forward slippage.
If the vertebra is pressing on nerves, a CT scan or MRI may be needed before treatment begins to further assess the abnormality. Treatment Options Initial treatment for spondylolysis is always conservative. The individual should take a break from the activities until symptoms go away, as they often do. Anti-inflammatory medications such as ibuprofen may help reduce back pain. Occasionally, a back brace and physical therapy may be recommended. In most cases, activities can be resumed gradually and there will be few complications or recurrences. Stretching and strengthening exercises for the back and abnormal muscles can help prevent future recurrences of pain. Periodic X-rays will show whether the vertebra is continuing to slip. Treatment Options: Surgical Surgery may be needed if slippage continues or if the back pain does not respond to conservative treatment and begins to interfere with activities of daily living. A spinal fusion is performed between the lumbar vertebra and the sacrum. Sometimes, an internal brace of screws and rods is used to hold together the vertebra as the fusion heals.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:22 pm
Source: Spine-health.com Pain from a synovial cyst in the lumbar spine A synovial cyst is a relatively uncommon cause of spinal stenosis in the lumbar spine (lower back). It is a benign condition, and the symptoms and level of pain or discomfort may remain stable for many years. A synovial cyst is a fluid-filled sac that develops as a result of degeneration in the spine. Because a synovial cyst develops from degeneration it is not often seen in patients younger than 45 and is most common in patients older than 65 years old. The fluid-filled sac creates pressure inside the spinal canal and this in turn can give a patient all the symptoms of spinal stenosis. Spinal stenosis is a condition that occurs when degeneration in the facet joints causes pressure on the nerves as they exit the spine.
Synovial Cyst in the lumbar spine Causes of a synovial cyst Synovial cysts develop as a result of degeneration in the facet joint in the lumbar spine. It is typically a process that only happens in the lumbar spine, and it almost always develops at the L4-L5 level (rarely at L3-L4). The pain probably comes from the venous blood around the nerves not being able to drain and this leads to pain and irritation of the nerves. Sitting down allows the blood to drain and relieves the pressure. The facet joint of the lumbar spine is just like any other joint in the body (such as the hips or knees): * It is composed of two opposing surfaces that are covered with cartilage * The cartilage is the smooth, very slippery surface that allows a joint to move * A thick capsule surrounds the entire joint, and within this is the synovium * The synovium is a thin film of tissue that generates fluid within the joint that helps further lubricate the joint * As the joint degenerates it can produce more fluid. As it degenerates, the cartilage looses its smooth, frictionless surface and the extra fluid can help by adding extra lubrication. It is thought that the synovial cyst develops in response this extra fluid. The fluid escapes out of the joint capsule through a one-way ball valve type hole, but stays within a synovial covering. This functionally pumps fluid one way into the fluid sac. The fluid, however, is not under a lot of pressure, as neurological deficits or cauda equina syndrome (loss of bowel and bladder control) is extremely uncommon even for very large cysts.
Graphic and info from another source: Neurosurgeon.com A Synovial Cyst is very similar to a Ganglion one often sees on the the back of one's wrist. It is a benign (non-cancerous) problem. As can be seen in the above illustration, a synovial facet cyst compresses the nerve root from above in stead of from below (like the herniated disk also seen on the other side). Unlike the bulging disk, Synovial Facet Cysts do not generally resolve, and usually require surgery.

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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:34 pm
{{{Ginger}}} It WILL get better.

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