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Archive through January 16, 2007

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jan. 2007 ~ Mar. 2007: Free Expression...: Dear Abby: Archive through January 16, 2007 users admin

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Twiggyish
Member

08-14-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 5:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twiggyish a private message Print Post    
I totally agree WG! I wouldn't hesitate to say stop it or no if I had to say it. I think kids need to hear it, because they will certainly hear no and stop it in the real world.

Grooch
Member

06-16-2006

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 7:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Grooch a private message Print Post    
Ok, I am confused.

Growing up, I was taught "No, means NO!"

I don't care what situation I am in.

If I want someone to stop something, I will yell "STOP!" "NO!" or ""F" You!" and there might be some knee action in it, if need be.

Sorry, I don't have the brain capability to find the correct PC term to say at the moment if I am in fear for my safety.

Such is life.

As to the woman in church saying something, I am glad she did. Maybe she could have expressed herself bettor, but I do not believe she meant any harm.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
You go, Grooch. Just try not to take out any hymnals with that knee action in church. Oh! Sorry, you meant genuflection.



Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:21 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I believe in speaking clearly and directly. "Please stop it" gets the point across and perhaps "you are being mean" cut through quite a bit of crap and that mother will think about that in the future and not be smacking her little one. That does seem pretty young to be in adult church anyway.

Zmom, those are all gentle reframes of stop it and if they work for you, that's great but I think you are also directing them to a child, not to an adult smacking a child. Directed at a non-family adult they would sound pretty condescenting, I'd think.

Personally I think "stop it" to a kid isn't a bad thing at certain times, when there is danger involved, they'd sure better know that if you say "stop it" you mean it and they need to do it. What if there is an intruder in your home? You really do need to be able to keep everyone quiet, not reason with them. Or if a child starts to move into danger, they'd better be able to handle being told NO or Stay! or Come back!

Hopefully there is trust within a family and stop it or be quiet isn't used in a punitive way, but in a reasonable way.

Chiliwilli
Member

09-04-2006

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 12:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chiliwilli a private message Print Post    
I don't really see any difference between "Please, stop it" and "I asked you not to do that." I do not understand 'please, stop it' being construed as rude in any way.

That woman punishing her child in church was disrupting the services for some people and the woman who spoke up had every right to say something.

When I go to church, the grocery store, the movies, etc. I do not feel I should have to tolerate other people's children misbehaving. You can call it a village if you like but I had no say in the decision for someone to have half dozen or so kids they can't control. When my children acted out in public I removed them from the situation and they had alone time to cool off. I never expected the public to tolerate my children misbehaving. I guess I'm a bad villager but that's my opinion.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 1:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
ITA Chili 100000% :-) Except truth be told, I am usually fairly timid in these situations, and just glower meaningfully at the perpetrators. Except @ the movies were I am a world-class SHUSHER!

Chiliwilli
Member

09-04-2006

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 2:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chiliwilli a private message Print Post    
Expert glarer here too, Mameblanche.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I'm pretty tolerant of kids; I like them. But cell-phones, that's another story and that includes mine .. I set it to low and vibrate but when I turn it on or off it seems loud and then all of a sudden it will ring to tell me I have 40 new messages which are all spam. grr.

Chiliwilli
Member

09-04-2006

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 3:11 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chiliwilli a private message Print Post    
I like kids too. I just think when they are out in public they should know how to behave. When they are running up and down the grocery store aisles knocking stuff in the floor I want to trip them. I used to volunteer at the elementary school all the time to teach crafts or baking to the kids. They are generally good but there were a few . . .

I especially hate someone talking on their cell phone at the table next to me in a restaurant or the one who almost runs me over driving and talking. I have one somewhere but I never take it with me unless I'm out of town working so I can call home at night. Or I let my son take it to school with him when he rides his bike so I know he got there okay.

Zachsmom
Member

07-13-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Zachsmom a private message Print Post    
Chili, my son is autistic and has been known to run up and down the isle at a store and has kicked down displays. Hopefully in the future instead of thinking that they are misbehaving you might consider there are other issues.

That's fine if the lot of you think "Stop it" is a nice way to talk to someone. I don't. We all have our quirks in what is acceptable words to use towards children and adults. I don't see how teaching a child "Stop it" is okay to say when they are children but when they are adults it's impolite. <shrug>

I was not there at the church service, but if this woman was truly abusing her child the way that is being described, why MORE people didn't butt in? What is worse, the woman abusing her child or those just sitting there waiting for it to stop?

I am not a perfect parent, and there have been many times where my child is very much out of control and I don't handle the situation correctly. There have also been times where I have to firmly restrain my child.That doesn't mean I am abusing my child and it also doesn't mean my child is scarred for life. I have seen nothing that Julie has described where the woman was abusing her child.

This is a service where adults are trying to hear a sermon. IF you child is wiggly and takes away from others your child should not be there.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
I am totally behind ZM on this. It is her right to decide what words are offensive in her house.

I think that adding "please" to the statement that ends with "...you're being mean" doesn't make it one bit better. I am generally very much open to seeing two sides to every story. Here, I completely disagree with telling a parent they are being mean to their child. If it even hinted at abuse, I would report it to the authorities. Otherwise, it is none of my business.

Redirection, rather than being judgemental, would have been a far better way to deal with this situation, IMO.

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
<Note to self....turn off cell phone when with Sea> :-)

Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
how does one get spam on a cell phone?

Rosie
Member

11-12-2003

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosie a private message Print Post    
Easy, just open up the can.

Kaili
Member

08-31-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kaili a private message Print Post    
Not being on the no call list? I didn't think they usually left messages though...

Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
LOL @ rosie

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
LOL at Abby7 in the other thread where she said she spray painted "please" on all the stop signs near her house!

Like I said earlier, everyone has differing opinions of what abuse is. What I saw the mom do was abusive to me. (repeatedly hurting her kid.) I wish everyone felt that was abuse and that no one would do it. Especially to a two year old who should not be expected to sit still in church. Now if it were a six year old, I really don't think i would have been as upset. (It was especially upsetting, cuz this little boy really only wanted some hugs, kisses and attention. He was not being "bad" at all.)

Zachsmom
Member

07-13-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:21 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Zachsmom a private message Print Post    
Julie, don't you have a place for 2 year old children to go in church?

So, the mother was abusive (in your words). Have you called CPS? Did you find resources for the mother? Did you speak with the mother? IF a child is being abused and you (not you you, but collective you) don't do anything,isn't that just as bad?

Max
Moderator

08-12-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Max a private message Print Post    
I keep wondering what the dad was doing the whole time the kid was acting up and the mom was pinching him. Just sayin'.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Well all we have to go on is one person perception. I can't say what I would've done in that situation because I was not there. But if I thought something abusive was going on then I would have asked the mom if we could talk out in the hall and made some suggestions. Again I'd have to be there to say what I would or would not do. I can't in this context.

Chiliwilli
Member

09-04-2006

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 10:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chiliwilli a private message Print Post    
Parents of kds who are knocking down displays in the stores should remove those kids from the store. Why should the store, it's employees and customers have to suffer because a parent can't control their child?

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 10:10 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
The most important question I ask myself in that situation is can I do something to make things better for the child and then for the Mother. Embarrassing the parent in front of her children and other people may not help the child in the long-term. Embarrassed parents may stop temporarily but often take it out on their children
later.

So if I were to intervene, I would either do it in a positive way that helps both the Mother and the child or if the situation warranted it, I would report the Mom for child abuse. IMO the in-between approach of telling the Mother to "Please stop it", may not lead to the best results and may create more problems for the child than it solves.

With respect to damage and knocking down items, I think it is perfectly reasonable for the store to ask the parent to leave and pay for damages.

At the same time anyone witnessing the event, should try to not to make any rash assumptions about the parent.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 11:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
The thing that you need to remember about that situation, was that it was during a very quiet part of the mass. It wasn't like you could have a conversation.

I think the "Please stop, you are being mean," was using the fewest words possible to get the message across. Even just "please stop" might have confused the mom and she might have thought "please stop your child from being noisy."

Also, the end result was the mom was much more gentle after that and the kid was much quieter too. Because all he really wanted was to be kissed and held.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 11:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
It does sound like it may have worked out well in that one particular situation and with those particular people who were involved.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 11:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
The thing that struck me as most surprising was that the mom reached out to the lady during the kiss of peace. So I am guessing (could be totally wrong tho) that the mom was kind of glad the lady said something...???