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Archive through January 15, 2007

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: Jan. 2007 ~ Mar. 2007: Free Expression...: Dear Abby: Archive through January 15, 2007 users admin

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Rissa
Member

03-20-2006

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 11:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rissa a private message Print Post    
Thanks Karuuna and great post. :-)

Zachsmom
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 12:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Zachsmom a private message Print Post    
I stand by my statement. She could have done it another way. Telling another to "Stop it you're being mean" is not a very positive way to re-direct someone. Especially sitting in church. Would you tell your child "Stop it you're being mean"? How is that positive? The woman stating it was probably just as frustrated as the mother. Why could she not do it quietly and in a more positive manner. IF she could not do it quietly and in a positive manner, she should have minded her own business. I highly doubt this child was being abused. Just because you don't like a parents way of discipling does not give you the right to butt your nose into it.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 12:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
I think she should have handled it a different way but maybe she wanted that shock value.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 12:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
"Please stop". Those were the words, right? PLEASE stop. Why does everyone keep leaving off the word Please? To make it sound worse than it was?

I don't know what saying it to my child has to do with this. I certainly have said "Please stop" to him many many times.

And actually, I did agree with you, Zmom. I said "I think it might have been done in a more gentle way,"

So, tell me, why should we ignore the frustration of the mom and no one should comment on it, but chastise the other woman for expressing her frustration. Why should one frustrated act be condemned, but another frustrated act ignored?

I think we're addressing two different questions. One, should one say anything at all in such a situation? Or, was what was said in this situation okay?

It seems to me everyone agrees it could have been handled better.

And as I said before, I think the church setting makes a difference also. I might not have said something if I saw this in MacDonald's. I would have felt obligated to say something in my church. As would most in my church.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 12:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
She did say please, and she did whisper it. (I was right next to her, so I could hear it.) So it wasn't like this mom was publically humiliated. I doubt there was anyone one else who heard. (She and the woman were both the last people in each pew.) I know the dad knew something was said, not sure if he heard the exact words. I could tell the woman was also very upset and maybe said it more impulsively. (and it wasn't a time where a lengthy conversation could take place. I think she was using the fewest words possible to get the point across.)

I just wish more people would intervene. People are so scared of minding their own business. I think we should make everyone feel like they have to be more accountable for their actions. I would rather have someone say something to me if it meant that more people who really need something said got it said to them. (Gee, does that even make sense?)

Denecee
Member

09-05-2002

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 12:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Denecee a private message Print Post    
The woman did say Please. It worked, it may not have worked for another frustrated mother and then the interrupting woman would have to deal with that.
I get so sad when I see children of any age getting smacked in public. I have to tell myself that I don't know the whole story but if I see what I think is abuse, then I'm going to do something.
In the case above, it wasn't abuse and maybe the lady could have just let the parent know that the child wasn't distracting from the sermon.

Glenn
Member

07-05-2003

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Glenn a private message Print Post    
Interesting responses to something that took place. Based on the initial parameters given by Julieboo, I applaud the lady who spoke up to the mom.

I would have no different opinion if this took place in a restaurant or a church. Being mean to a child is what it is. Having the ability to voice the opinion that someone is being mean to a child is placing yourself at great social risk. I would prefer the anger focused at me versus the child.

Zachsmom
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Zachsmom a private message Print Post    
Doesn't matter if she said please or not.

"Stop it" is "stop it" whether you put please in front of it or not. "Stop it" is a rude phrase in our family and it's the same as saying "F-you". So, putting please in front of it doesn't make it any less rude.

IF the woman was sitting right next to the mother, why not just say "Would you like me to hold him for a bit to give you a break"? IF you are going to butt in, at least be positive.

And Kar, it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't get involved in McDonalds but would in Church. Doesn't the village include a McD's?

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
All of this talk about Mickey D's is making Scoot want a Big Mac

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
"Stop it" is a rude phrase in our family and it's the same as saying "F-you".

Seriously? Whoa! Here, it is not even close! Ryan could totally say something like "Stop it." Or "Please stop it." But if he said the other thing, geeze, I can't even imagine...

Like if we tickle him too much, he would easily say stop it or please stop it. But to say F-you in the same scenerio, that would blow my mind.

Zachsmom
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Zachsmom a private message Print Post    
We don't use "stop it" in our home Julie, we feel it's as rude as saying "f-you". rude is rude.

Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
i'm curious, zmom, then how do you ask someone in your family to stop doing something if you don't use the phrase 'please stop it'? what words work for you that are less disturbing for you?

Zachsmom
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Zachsmom a private message Print Post    
We say:
"I do not like your behavior right now".
"I asked you not to do that",
"Are we allowed to say or behave in that manner"?,
"NO" (if attention needs to be made.
"That hurts my ears when you scream like that",
"That hurts my feelings when you say those words"

...I can write tons more if you like.

Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
thank you, zmom. i like those phrases too.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
First, as good as a description may be, it is still words on a screen. It is very difficult to assess the mood and tone unless you are present at the event.

Unless there was clear abuse, I don't think that I would interfere by directly telling a parent to stop doing something. "Please stop it" sounds very negative and aggressive to me, despite the inclusion of the "please". Embarrassing the parent will neither get your point across nor help the child. Parents are authority figures to their children. By telling the parent to "please stop it", you are effectively disciplining the parent in front of the child.

I would rather try to redirect the parent in a more positive way.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
It's really an individual call to whether you'd call it abuse or not. I did see it as abuse.

She did "hurt" him several times. Which is weird in itself because I'm guessing her goal was to keep him quiet. He would try to kiss her or tell her something. She'd say knock it off. He'd do it again. So then she'd hit him (or grab his arm or something physical.) Then he'd cry. Then she'd hit him again for being loud. Well, duh, a hit is going to result in a cry...

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
So now you're calling it abuse. You didn't before.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Zmom, as I said, we agree that it wasn't handled in the best way. I don't know why you keep trying to argue that point, since I agreed with you. :-)

I do see a difference between church and MacDonald's. I regard the people in my church as extended family, whether I've met them or not. We're called in that 'family' specifically to hold each other accountable for our behavior. In the gentlest way possible, of course, but sometimes it does take not being so gentle to get a point across.

I wouldn't counsel a drunk in MacDonald's either. But if I was aware that someone had come to church drunk, I would talk to them about it.

Now if I see real abuse, I would act. And as the story indicated above (and I have many more) I have acted in lesser situations. I've told the story here about working in a customer service dept and when one young boy hit his younger brother, his mom hit him, yelling at him for hitting the younger one. I quietly looked her in the eye and said "Hey, should I hit you for hitting him? Cause I'm bigger than you, and I could take you." I was young and a bit more brash at the time.

When a friend of mine took out her son for acting badly by sweeping her foot under his legs and knocking him to the ground, I told her that if I ever saw something like that again I would call CPS. When another friend went to pick up her kids from day care after having 3 margaritas and being obviously drunk, I called the center and then the police.

I am not shy about speaking up. Usually in a public place, I'll smile and say "boy, they can be handful, can't they? Would you like a hand?" or if I can't help, I'll say, "but the precocious, brightest, best kids are more work. You're so lucky to have such a wonderful child." That usually reorients them, even if they grumble at first.

As for using "please stop", I don't see that as rude, depending on the situation or tone of voice. I've TAUGHT my son to tell someone to stop behavior that is offensive. I hope he absolutely knows that if someone is doing something wrong he can tell them to stop. If someone tries to hurt him, if he sees a classmate or friend breaking a rule, I hope he would absolutely and unequivocably and unashamedly tell them to "stop it". When he was little, I remember screaming at him and a friend to "STOP RIGHT NOW" as they started to run out into a busy street. I don't think it was rude at all. It may have saved their little lives. I think blanket statements like this is wrong, or that is rude, don't take into account the the complexity of communication, or the tone of voice and intent.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Did the last part of the sentance need to be said. I am sure please stop it (or please cease and desist for those less rude households) would have been sufficient to the woman without adding "you are being mean". JMO.

I have never equated Stop it with F-You.
That's interesting.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
I absolutely abhor corporal punnishment and never laid a hand on my child. I dont agree with hitting a child but if I saw a parent slapping a two year old's butt, I wouldn't like it, but I would keep my mouth shut. It is none of my business.

I have said something when someone is beating the crap out of a kid in the street and I have wondered if I caused the child more problems but I did say something. In the case described above, I dont care if it is in a church or a McDonalds, I wouldnt like how the parent disciplined the child but I would keep my mouth shut. It is interfering where I have no right to interfere.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I never said I did not think it was abuse. (Though everyone has a different opinion of what abuse is.)

Denecee
Member

09-05-2002

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Denecee a private message Print Post    
It is a form of abuse, maybe more mental than anything. Gosh, the poor baby(2 yrs is still a baby) trying to give kisses and affection. I think in the situation Julieboo described that what the lady said to the mom was the best thing. The mom will think about it and hopefully the lady or even Julieboo could talk privately to the mom. As sad as it is, there are a lot of parents who don't know what to do in situations like above.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 3:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
"Stop it" or any variation (please stop, stop, don't, quit, no, etc.) are key words in our family. We've got a bunch of overgrown men children in our family (said with affection not insult) who are just as likely to get on the floor and rough house and tickle the kids during Christmas dinner as they are to sit at the table and act their ages. All of the kids have been taught that as soon as you say "Stop" it means stop, doesn't matter if they're playing with an adult or a kid and they expect whatever they are saying "Stop" to will stop and it does. Now "shut up," "be quiet," and the newest "leave me alone" are totally rude and unacceptable, rephrase it, lol.

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 3:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
WG...Yeah don't you love that one "Leave me alone" too bad I can't type the tone that goes along with it?!

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 4:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
Ohhhh I know the tone, it is horrible. I've been blaming it on impending puberty because I've heard more of it lately than I care to.