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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 7:47 pm
Source: Ivanhoe.com Reported April 7, 2006 Long-Lasting Benefits of Cancer Vaccine (Ivanhoe Newswire) -- Not only is a vaccine against cervical cancer effective in the short term, but a new study shows the protective qualities prove to last for more than four years. Cervical cancer is the second most common cancer in women worldwide. It also tends to strike women younger than most other cancers. Unlike many cancers that are genetic in nature or have multiple causes, cervical cancer is caused primarily by persistent infection with the human papillomavirus (HPV). Researchers consider this to be the strongest causal relationship in cancer epidemiology to date. Because the cause of the cancer is so clear-cut, a way to protect against the virus has been the impetus behind a large amount of research. In recent years, scientists developed a vaccine against the two most common types of HPV -- HPV 16 and HPV 18 -- and it has proven to be around 90-percent effective in preventing the infection and the cancer. Recently, researchers from Dartmouth Medical School in Hanover, N.H., set out to determine how long the vaccine's effectiveness lasts. They performed a follow-up study of women at 28 sites in the United States and Canada who were involved in the original vaccine trial. Investigators found after at least four years, the nearly 800 women who received the vaccine (and not a placebo) still showed antibodies against the virus. Researchers say unlike most vaccines that result in a decrease in antibody activity after four years, this vaccine shows no decreased activity and works against both new and persistent infection. Additionally, researchers say the vaccine shows no serious side effects and remains effective against cancerous cell changes associated with high-risk HPV types. Study authors say, "These findings set the stage for the wide scale adoption of HPV vaccination for prevention of cervical cancer." SOURCE: The Lancet, published online April 6, 2006
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 8:40 pm
This is one of those STDs that men don't realize they can carry, and basically put women at a big risk. A vaccination would be great.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 8:41 pm
NOTE from HP: The vaccine discussed here is not available quite yet, but two HPV vaccines are in the final stages of clinical testing. If licensed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), one of the vaccines may be available in the summer or fall of 2006. Both vaccines would be delivered through a series of three injections over a six-month period. Source: SITE Source for article below: Ivanhoe.com Reported December 26, 2005 Vaccine Protects Against Cervical Cancer In-Depth Doctor's Interview Christopher Thoming, M.D., discusses the Human Pamplona Virus and a new vaccination currently in trial review. Ivanhoe Broadcast News Transcript with Christopher Thoming, M.D., Internist, Westover Heights Clinic, Portland, Ore., TOPIC: Vaccine Protects Against Cervical Cancer What is HPV? Dr. Thorning: HPV stands for human papilloma virus, a virus that slowly infects. There are over 200 known strains. They are the same virus in other strains that cause external genital warts and other more rare skin infections. A few of them have a close association to -- as we've come to call it -- the cancer gene. If there are 200 strains, how common is it? Dr. Thorning: It depends on who you ask. The HPV is thought by some to be virtually in all of us, part of our normal flora. But the right strain in the right location, with the right stimulant can produce external warts, genital warts, or changes can lead to cancer. Not all people with cervical infections, even with high-risk types, get cancer, but 99.7 with cancer have this high-risk DNA and high-risk HPV. How many cervical cancers are caused by HPV? Dr. Thorning: It's an epidemiologic association. However, that association has been said to be stronger than the association of smoking for lung cancer. In fact, 99.7 percent of cervical cancer tissues, when sampled, have high-risk HPV DNA in them. How many strains cause cervical cancer? Dr. Thorning: There have been six strains and are all designated by number as they were found. There are two predominant strains, type 16 and type 18, which account for over 70 percent. What vaccine is being used? Dr. Thorning: Again, it's those two types, type 16 and type 18, that are used. Type 16 is nearly 50-percent responsible for all cervical cancers that have been sampled, and then type 18 is the other 20 percent to 23 percent. How effective is the vaccine? Dr. Thorning: Thus far the vaccine is extremely effective and may lead to the largest breakthrough in our career as health care providers. The preliminary trial, which looks at this particular vaccine product in a smaller population, shows the prevention with persistent infection that seems to be the pathology leading to cancer chains, not transient infection that comes and goes. If you're sampling women, doing PAP smears, and looking for DNA in a timely enough basis, what we've found is various types of the virus come and go. This as been a sort of unintended consequence of the trial, we're getting perfected information about how humans and risk VD types interact. Types seem to come and go, but with, again, high-risk types, that can lead to cancerous changes, and the vaccine in the previous trial has shown it to be nearly 100-percent effective, which for a vaccine is extremely exciting. Do you have any way to compare that to a vaccine we've seen in the past? Dr. Thorning: I think the best comparison I have, because I'm working on this, too, is the Herpes vaccine that the NIH, for example, got involved with because it's a very exciting result. It is shown to be 75 percent effecatious, which is a little bit more real from a general statement. One hundred percent is ... we don't see that. How deadly is cervical cancer? Dr. Thorning: Cervical cancer is quite deadly. In the United States, a relatively small number of women die from their cervical cancer relative to the number that have PAP smears taken. In the developing world, where public health is not present, a high percentage of individuals who get cervical cancer die. This is the primary push behind finalizing the vaccine, its use in developing countries. Will governments in the developing world pay for a preventive vaccine like this? Dr. Thorning: That's the reason for the test case with the Hepatitis vaccine. The introduction of the Hepatitis B vaccine 20 years ago has eliminated 95 percent to 99 percent of the disease, depending on the survey. How many people are needed for the trial? Dr. Thorning: In this trial we're looking for 18,000 patients worldwide. We already have 15,000 people enrolled. So when could this be on the market? Dr. Thorning: That's up to pharmaceutical companies. Certainly within five years, optimistically within three years. Who would get the vaccine and what would the established protocol be? Dr. Thorning: The vaccine being studied is a prophylactic vaccine, which is a preventive for infection. We are doing some research to examine the effect of the vaccine as a therapeutic vaccine for individuals already infected with HPV, however, the greater results we're seeing is in the ability to prevent infection. The population we would vaccinate would be those with no interaction with the virus, or those not at risk for acquisition of the virus. This includes pre-sexual females or preadolescent, the younger the better would be my recommendation. What are the side effects? Dr. Thorning: We've seen local side effects that are the only statistical significance in the trial. There are some local reactions; the DLT tends to cause a local immune response. There is also some pain, redness and swelling with the injection. The systemic side effects, such as fatigue, headache, and nausea, have not been shown to be any more prevalent than the placebo, so hopefully it won't be a significant amount of systemic adverse reactions. What do you do to the cervix to see changes? Dr. Thorning: If they're early changes they're followed. There is a whole gradation system that is published when the virus is detected. If there are changes in the cervix, the doctor will do a PAP smear quicker than they would otherwise. If the PAP smear is negative, maybe six months to a year, if it's positive, the next test will be done in about two months to six months. Certainly, if there are cellular changes that are thought to be precancerous, those cells are dealt with immediately. What puts someone at risk for getting the HPV infection? Dr. Thorning: Being sexually active is really the only way to get the infection. We are not sure how men are transmitting though. How would a man know he was a carrier of the virus? Dr. Thorning: He could have genital warts and also there are some dangerous cancers of the anal that can be caused by the HPV virus. Another sign of the virus are skin cancers. If a woman has an abnormal PAP smear, does that mean she is infected with HPV? Dr. Thorning: It means they could've been. About 85 percent of all abnormal PAP smears are related to a current or previous HPV infection. END OF INTERVIEW This information is intended for additional research purposes only. It is not to be used as a prescription or advice from Ivanhoe Broadcast News, Inc., or any medical professional interviewed. Ivanhoe Broadcast News, Inc., assumes no responsibility for the depth or accuracy of physician statements. Procedures or medicines apply to different people and medical factors in different ways; always consult your physician on medical matters. If you would like more information, please contact: Lisa Taulbee Research Director Westover Heights Clinic 2330 N.W. Flanders St. Suite 207 Portland, OR 97210 (503) 226-6678 lisa@westoverheights.com http://www.westoverheights.com
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 8:48 pm
Source: STD FACTS What are the symptoms and health effects of HPV? There are many different types of HPV. Some types of HPV can cause warts in the genital areas of men and women, called genital warts. Other types of HPV can cause cervical cancer. These types also have been linked to other less common genital cancers, such as anal cancer. However, most people who get HPV do not develop these health problems. Most times, HPV infection has no symptoms and goes away on its own. Should girls/women be vaccinated? If so, at what age? The vaccine would be most effective if given before girls become sexually active. It is not yet known what the best ages will be for them to get the vaccine. Should boys/men be vaccinated? If so, at what age? If the FDA licenses the HPV vaccine for boys as well as girls, the ACIP will consider whether boys should get the vaccine and what ages would be best. It is possible that the vaccine may be licensed for girls before it is licensed for boys. This is because there is no information on how well the vaccine works in boys and men at this time. If the vaccine is recommended for boys and men, the vaccine would be most effective if given before boys become sexually active.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 8:58 pm
Source: Ivanhoe.com Reported July 6, 2005 Vaccine Protects Against Cervical Cancer PORTLAND (Ivanhoe Broadcast News) -- Cervical cancer kills about 200,000 women each year worldwide. High-risk infections cause it to develop -- like certain types of a virus transmitted during sex. Now, two new vaccines may prevent that virus altogether.
Blythe Layton is taking part in a study to prevent a common virus -- the human papillomavirus, also known as HPV. She says, “I learned that it’s amazingly prevalent in women in my age group, and I had no idea about that, and that it’s really easy to get, and it’s easy to have without knowing that you have it, and that it can be a precursor for cervical cancer.” In most women, the virus goes away and the cervix stays healthy. But in some women, HPV causes changes that could lead to cervical cancer. If those changes are picked up by a Pap smear, doctors can remove the cells before they cause harm.
HPV study investigator Christopher Thoming, M.D., says, “In the developing world where public health infrastructure is not around, a high percentage of individuals who get cervical cancer die because they get findings too late.” That could soon change with two vaccines developed to prevent the virus altogether. In earlier trials, both vaccines were 90-percent to 100-percent effective at preventing HPV. “These vaccines could eliminate the great majority of cervical cancers in our lifetime, and that’s a big statement,” says Dr. Thoming, from Westover Heights Clinic in Portland.
Layton has already had the vaccine. Today she’s having blood drawn to see if she’s developed antibodies to HPV. “It’s definitely made me more conscious of getting regularly tested and just being really careful,” Layton tells Ivanhoe. Doctors say the vaccines could be available within two years. One of the HPV vaccines may also treat and prevent genital warts in men and women. Researchers assure patients that most HPV types are minor and don't cause long-term harm. It's the persistent infections that can lead to cancer. If you would like more information, please contact: Lisa Taulbee Research Director Westover Heights Clinic 2330 N.W. Flanders St. Suite 207 Portland, OR 97210 (503) 226-6678 lisa@westoverheights.com http://www.westoverheights.com
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Lyn
Member
08-07-2002
| Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 8:58 pm
Hubby had the HP virus before being diagnosed with stomach cancer. If the HP pack doesn't get the virus the first time, your chances of cancer are high. Our three kids are expected to receive the vaccine because hubby, his aunt, uncle. 2 cousins and father all died of cancr in the last few years - and the HP virus. (Your oncologist will determine the origins of cancer in the family and if there is a history of HP virus, you can be added to the vaccination list). (NOTE: Our oncologist was talking of those with GI cancers...not sure if the same rules apply for other cancers)
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:10 am
Lyn, thanks for posting. Could I ask how your dh is doing right now, hon?
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:04 am
HP, thx for posting all this info, I don't feel so bad now. I felt like a dirty ho all night....and not in a 'fun' way 
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:29 am
Awww, . I 'got' that from your Right Now posts, so I ran right away for the truth. Should have mentioned earlier for you to look here cuz I posted these last night. (I had just heard--when the news about the vaccine breakthrough had been released--that it can lie dormant in many of us--just like the herpes virus that causes chicken pox. So I knew the real facts would help you--and likely plenty of others here, too.)

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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Monday, June 05, 2006 - 3:38 pm
(((HP)))
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Lyn
Member
08-07-2002
| Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:31 pm
We lost Allan May 5th, Herckle 
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Monday, June 05, 2006 - 7:04 pm
Oh, Lyn! I am so very, very sorry, hon. My heart goes out to you and I will keep you in my prayers. I hope you (and do you have children?) and yours are managing to get through these days with a sense of peace.
Please accept my deepest sympathy, Lyn.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Monday, June 05, 2006 - 7:06 pm
{{{Lyn}}}
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 4:26 pm
Lyn, I am so sorry. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 9:59 am
HPV can resolve it's self. A year after Zachary was born I had an abnormal pap smear with HPV present. 6 months later I had another pap and again the HPV was present. 2 months after that, another pap and it came back fine. I was not sexually active at the time.I am 'supposed' to be viligant on getting paps every year, but, well, I hate them. I think it depends on the strain of HPV on whether or not it's related to cancer. I had no warts.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 4:42 pm
{{{Lyn}}} I hope having the vaccine for the kids gives you a measure of comfort after your great loss. I think the HPV can remain dormant, so checking regularly is the best thing. My hairdresser has had to have several biopsies and told them next time she isn't leaving until they yank everything! (her kids are 26 and 13).
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Finqwik
Member
09-23-2000
| Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 9:24 am
last Oct I had an abnormal pap result. The pap test was repeated in March I later got a call in June from my Doctors office telling me that test was abnormal and I had to go for a colposcopy at the hospital.( This was a suprise really because I had been expecting to hear about a barium drink test thing for my stomach) I had that colposcopy about six weeks ago, the Dr said right off the top, before he examined me that it's not cancer so that was good. Then this morning I had a call from the gynecologists office saying the Dr wanted me to come in and see him as the results were not entirely normal. For every test result I just tell myself well it's nothing, now I'm a little bit worried. Does anyone know if a test for the HPV would have been done at any point during these tests?
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 1:45 pm
Sorry to hear about all this, Finqwik! I'm trying to find an answer for you, hon. I'll post what I do find and hope it helps to answer your question. When do you go back to see him?
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 1:49 pm
Looks as if the answer is yes. Source: About Health & Fitness-Colposcopy What is a Colposcopy? When your doctor calls and says your Pap smear contains abnormal results you may feel frightened and think the worse. However, you should remember that most abnormal Pap smears are not cancer, and your abnormal results are likely caused by an inflammation or infection. Since the Pap smear is only a screening test and not a diagnostic tool, your physician may want to take a closer look at your cervix to determine the cause of the abnormal results. Reasons your doctor may have for ordering this procedure include Pap smear results which: * indicate dysplasia or cancer * show evidence of HPV * show atypical squamous cells of undetermined significance (ASCUS) or repeated (ASCUS) Your physician may also order a colposcopy based on his opinion that your cervix appears abnormal, or in patients with a history of prenatal DES exposure. Coloposcopy is a diagnostic tool to determine the cause of abnormalities found in Pap smears. A colposcopy is a visual examination of the cervix--a relatively simple and painless procedure, usually performed in your physician's office. The actual procedure lasts approximately ten to fifteen minutes. A colposcopy seems much like a Pap smear, however, there a few important differences. You are positioned on the examination table as in a Pap smear, however acetic acid (such as, common table vinegar) is placed on the cervix which causes the cervical cells to fill with water so light will not pass through them. Another difference that you will notice is that your physician uses a colposcope to view your cervix. A colposcope is a large, electric microscope that is positioned approximately 30 cm from your vagina. A bright light on the end of the colposcope makes it possible for your physician to visualize your cervix. Your physician focuses on the areas where no light passes through. Abnormal cervical changes are seen as white areas, the whiter the area, the worse the dysplasia. Abnormal blood vessel changes are also apparent through the colposcope. Abnormal vascular changes can occur in dysplasia. Typically, the worse the vascular changes, the worse the dysplasia. If your physician is able to view the entire abnormal area through the colposcope, a tissue sample or biopsy is taken from the whitest abnormal areas and sent to the lab for further evaluation. Cryosurgery or a freezing of the abnormal cells may be performed next and, in some cases, can make this a diagnostic/ treatment procedure in one. If your physician, is unable to view the entire abnormal area, as when the abnormal area extends inside the cervix, another procedure such as a Cone biopsy or LEEP procedure is performed. Cone Biopsy: Definition: A procedure that involves the removal of a triangle of cervical tissue which contains abnormal cervical cells. May be performed in a clinician's office during colposcopy or as an outpatient hospital procedure. Slight bleeding and watery discharge usually follows treatment.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 1:57 pm
Source: About Health & Fitness-LEEP Procedure LEEP Procedure The loop electrosurgical excision procedure (LEEP) is used when your Pap smear indicates the presence of abnormal cells on the surface of the cervix. This does not mean you have cancer, but treatment of the abnormal area is important to prevent the cells from developing into cervical cancer. LEEP uses a thin wire loop electrode which is attached to an electrosurgical generator. The generator transmits a painless electrical current that quickly cuts away the affected cervical tissue in the immediate area of the loop wire. This causes the abnormal cells to rapidly heat and burst, and separates the tissue as the loop wire moves through the cervix. This technique allows your physician to send the excised tissue to the lab for further evaluation which insures that the lesion was completely removed, as well as allowing for a more accurate assessment of the abnormal area. You may want to take some over-the-counter pain reliever such as ibuprofen before arriving at your physician's office for the procedure. This will help minimize any pain during or following the procedure. Always follow your doctors instructions for preparation for the LEEP. What happens during the LEEP procedure? The LEEP procedure takes about 20-30 minutes and is usually performed in your physician's office. In some ways it may seem much like a normal pelvic exam because you will lie on the exam table with your feet in the stirrups. A colposcope will be used to guide your doctor to the abnormal area. Unlike a normal colposcopy, a tube will be attached to the speculum to remove the small amount of smoke caused by the procedure. An electrosurgical dispersive pad will be placed on your thigh. The pad is a gel-covered adhesive electrode which provides a safe return path for the electrosurgical current. A single-use, disposable loop electrode will be attached to the generator hand piece by your physician. Your cervix will be prepared with acetic acid and iodine solutions that enable your physician to more easily see the extent of the abnormal area. Next a local anesthetic will be injected into the cervix; the electroloop will be generated and the wire loop will pass through the surface of your cervix. After the lesion is removed your physician will use a ball electrode to stop any bleeding that occurs; he may also use a topical solution to prevent further bleeding. You can leave your physician's office soon after the procedure. Are there any complications associated with the LEEP? Complications are usually mild but can include: * mild pain or discomfort * bleeding You should call your physician if you experience bleeding that is heavier than a normal period, or if pain is severe. Other symptoms that should be reported to your physician include any heavy vaginal discharge or strong vaginal odor. After the LEEP you should not: * Have sexual intercourse for as long as recommended by your physician * Lift heavy objects * Use tampons * Douche * Take tub baths--take showers only to prevent infection Follow your doctor's instructions closely after your LEEP procedure; he will tell you when to return for follow-up Pap smears and/or colposcopy. It is imperative that you keep these follow-up appointments to be sure that the abnormal area was completely removed and that it has not returned. Always call your physician if you have any questions.
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Finqwik
Member
09-23-2000
| Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 2:39 pm
Thanks HP I see him on the 28th of August. I think I am going to assume that not 'entirely normal' means some sort long standing/recurrent hpv infection. And that I was tested for it as part of the colopscopy. That makes be feel better I can deal with that. I wish he could just tell me this over the phone and not have to wait. I wonder if it's curable or if there will always be the risk of the virus mutating.
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 5:17 pm
I had an abnormal pap years ago, which led to a cone biopsy and cyrosurgery...it was all so stressful and scary but results were good. Hope all goes well Finqwik....try not to be too stressed (easier said than done..I know) 
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Finqwik
Member
09-23-2000
| Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 5:16 am
Thanks cinnamongirl, I'm sure it's nothing, and even if it is, it's treatable right?. Cannot emphasize enough how important the annual pap smear is for all women whatever there age or background.
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Finqwik
Member
09-23-2000
| Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:37 am
HPV I've discovered is incredibly prevalent and the only way to avoid it is to never have sex. At my appointment with the Doctor yesterday he said I have to have a cold cone biopsy which he described as curative. This procedure will give him a large sample to do a definitive biopsy on and hopefully will have cut out all of the bad cells (or whatever they are) I asked him if this was caused by HPV. He said that it was, that it was caused by one of about six types of the virus that can remain in the body for a long time. Also that the test to determine which type was extremely expensive and they don't know what to do with the results when they get them anyway. Without going into details I know my own history and know that the most recent date I could have contracted the virus was sixteen years ago, so this virus really does stick around . The Doctor also said that the virus will never go away even after the cold cone biopsy and that regular pap smears are pretty much mandatory, if after my surgery they find I am still getting abnormal paps then I have to have an hysterectomy. Does this all jive with anyone else's experience? Are there alternates? Oh and also this strain of HPV does not cause warts which again makes it harder to detect.
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 9:04 am
Whoa, a hysterectomy.....that seems like quite the leap, but since I'm not a doctor, what do I know?? I'd definately get a second opinion before that happens just to be sure. My procedure was curative. Afterwards, I did have to have paps every 6 months for many years then back to yearly. And when they say..."watery discharge" holy cow...they should have added the word "gushing" first...LOL felt like a waterfall to me (be prepared!!) Finq..when do you get the procedure done?
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Finqwik
Member
09-23-2000
| Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:52 pm
Hi Cinnamongirl it's encouraging to know that everything is fine with you now, so long after you had the procedure. Yeah the hysterectomy is a leap, I think I phrased that wrong I think if I continue to have abnormal paps and the high grade whatsits persist then they will do the hysterectomy as a last resort, but he is pretty confident of getting it all out with the cone biopsy. The Dr said he is going to take a large section out of my cervix as I'm not planing to have any children, and that I can expect to bleed a lot afterwards , he never mentioned watery discharge, great. I have the procedure done on Sept 15th as an out patient with general anesthetic, which was a bit of a shock as I expected it to be done with a laser and take ten minutes in his office lol.
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 12:15 pm
Well Good Luck Finqwik! No worries right?! I was an outpatient too but maybe my procedure was a bit different with the freezing/waterfall! It was kinda uncomfortable but at least it was at an easily treatable stage. We're lucky things were caught early.. Take care!! 
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 12:20 am
HPV infection, which is usually asymptomatic, is also usually harmless. The vast majority of cases are transient: The body's immune system fights off the infection, which then either becomes inactive or resolves on its own. Genital HPV is an extremely common viral infection. (Of the more than 100 known HPV strains, 30 are sexually transmissible and are considered genital HPV *********** I just did a little research as i didnt know that it could disappear! I thought it was like having the Herpes virus or a cold sore..you never become negative. I learned something new!
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Finqwik
Member
09-23-2000
| Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 9:05 am
That's interesting Sunshyne4u so if I understand this correctly some strains will disappear but others will become inactive and remain dormant,to then eventually flare up again (as in my case) the Dr was quite adamant that it would never go away. Thanks Cinnamongirl it's all good.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 12:43 am
I am sure that they serotype the subspecies and that way they KNOW what kind a person has. This topic of HPV is all the talk of the media right now. SOunds like they might make the immunization part of the school shots. Incredible world we live in.
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