Author |
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 1:16 pm
Sorry if I put a "stop" to this thread! Everything was flowing along so nicely and then...
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 2:26 pm
((((Baby)))) You didn't put a stop to anything, sweetie, the clubhouse is a ghost-town today cuz of the holidays! 
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 2:30 pm
Awwwww, thanks sweet Mame!!
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 2:35 pm
I should have said (up above) that I truly love my dad and my family. But, I can't be what they want me to be and I can't fit in where they want me to fit in. I still love all of them, though!
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 2:35 pm
No Baby, the thread has not stopped. When you mentioned your father not staying in your room when you were in the hospital it reminded me of something a friend said. She had 2 sisters. They were walking along a road and a motorcycle went out of control and ran into the one girl (age 15). She was in a coma for a year before she died in a nursing home.My friend told me that she would go and sit and talk to her sister in the home for hours but her father would never visit. She accepted this because she knew that he loved her but he could not stand to see her in the coma. Maybe your dad was being brave just going into your room.
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 2:48 pm
Yes, I know Dogdoc. But, when you are a kid and you are repeatedly in the hospital and this continues to happen year after year, it is so hard! And it just wasn't the hospital visits, it was everything else, too. It was the silence, the coaxing from my mom to even pay attention to me, the alcohol and on and on and on! I am sure my dad was having a very hard time coming to see me when I was in the hospital. But, his absence definitely took a toll on me. I just felt like I never really mattered in his eyes and it was so painful and still is! Thanks Dogdoc for your post. Lots of "hurting others" going on in this world. I just wish we could all stop and think about others and their feelings and the impact we have on each other's lives.
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Glenn
Member
07-05-2003
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:34 pm
Here is a thought for you Baby. You will never know what your father was thinking all those times he was not there for you unless you ask him. A lot of times people are surprised because it seems it is never the reason why they thought something happened. I would also suggest getting some coaching on how to approach this from a person trained in this type of discussion before you do it. Also, it is much easier to do why he is still alive.
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:42 pm
Glenn, Thanks for your thoughts! But it is too late. My dad is in a nursing home and he is suffering from advanced dementia. He isn't capable of answering any questions nor having a conversation with anyone on anything.
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Chewpito
Member
01-04-2004
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 4:24 pm
One of the things I think I carried away from my youth is constently being be-littled.. Out of sight/outa mind...we never ate with mom and dad..we were served early and excused and not to get under foot.. we had chores(not that thats a bad thing/its not) but they were huge tasks for little kids and at the end of the day-dad did an inspection and if it wasnt to his liking..well,that was a bad thing..so we did every thing as perfect as could be and were scared to death when he came home... I remember a time my little brother was playing (we were camping on the beach)and dad said dont play near the rocks..well we were normal kids and got to close..My little brother slipped and fell a good long fall and landed on rocks. I hurdled down the side of the cliff and he was messed up,but the first words he said were.."dont tell dad" he begged me to say nothing/ on the next day he was throwing up and white/shaking/temp. He was in bad shape,but we were so afraid at what would happen if we told, until he had to be rushed to the hospital..kids should not have to be that afraid. Until I left home I think I walked in fear.. Now Im grown and im pretty tough,but I still hold my head down,dont look people in the eyes,and keep as busy as possible to avoid confrontation. I dont handle social cituations well at all, I allways think that I should keep my mouth shut or ill say somthing stupid.. I know that that isnt how it really is and probably most of the other people are having the same thoughts.. but when somthing is drilled into your brain its hard to get it out..........Like Baby- I do have some good memorys..Im a damn good fisher,know how to work hard and can handle myself in the outdoors..can put chains on my car,change my oil and do alot of stuff that alot of my female friends find amazing..lol... When ever I hear geese fly above I feel my fathers presence. He taught me to be strong in a hard world. My one regret is that my father died befor we could make some sort of amends. He had a troubled life himself- so I guess it just passes on to the next generation... I often wonder what my daughter will have to say about me when shes at my age. Growing up with no father and a workaholic mom,that is a picky eater and has serious social problems.... I think we all come full circle...
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 4:34 pm
Well Chewpito, I would like you to know I find your posts great! There is lots of good "food for thought" in them and I certainly wouldn't worry about keeping your head down here on the board, if I were you! You have lots to share!
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 5:50 pm
Chewpito, I responded in my folder to the note you left. Thank you for the kind words!
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 6:05 pm
Well, all I can add is that we have all made it to adulthood and are sane enough to come here share our stories. Maybe our parents didn't do so badly after all. They reared us and instilled something in us somehow that made us be able to conquer trials in life. They did the best they could and it must have been enough or we would have never met here.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 9:39 pm
Doc I agree. I attribute my love of reading, my streetsmarts, survival skills, and independance to mom, and my love of life, my sense of fun, my communication skills (spoken and written), and stunning good looks (haha) to my dad.
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Chewpito
Member
01-04-2004
| Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:07 pm
I must admit,I got beautiful green eyes from my dad... and I have a great bond with my daughter where we talk and share..and there is no fear. "That" I learned from my childhood..
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 5:34 am
Can we LEARN anything at this age, learn new behavior, or is the function of this thread to just unload, vent, and get sympathy from others (not that that's a bad thing). Misery likes company. Is that all this thread is good for? I read other posters and think, well my life is better than that one or worse than that other one... We are full formed adults. We still have the parental messages running in loops in our heads. The main message from my Dad was "Be perfect." He meant well, sure, but... I did feel loved by both my parents. That is important. Strangely I think my Dad was better able to express his love for me than I am in expressing my love for my kids. You would think there would be progress in that area with awareness, but...
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 5:41 am
Thinking about my older son who is 30 and headed for Iraq next March. Thinking about communication, when to keep at it, when to let go of it, wondering what good it is anyway. We talked the other day. He likes to control the calls, calls when it's a good time for Him, etc. Well his schedule is crazy, so that's ok. I followed up the call and discussion with an email. I prefer email when thinking about heavy topics. I'm more of a writer than a talker. I can focus better this way, rather than get off down some tangent. He responded to my email concerns, mostly about IEDs, roadside bombs, danger. He shrugged it off, called me a worry wart, talked about his duty to his country, stuff you'd expect a Marine to say. Next day he followed it up with a terse email saying he hates emails and rants on emails. My son has an interesting way of pushing me away. I was not ranting. I was exploring various options in case he hadn't thought of them. Apparently he can get out of the Iraq assignment. But he's his own man...
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 8:36 am
I think you never stop learning, unless you give up. I'm not only a very different person than I was 25 years ago, I'm very different than 5 years ago. And I can even look back to a year ago and see how much I've changed and learned. Newman, I think the important thing with not only your kids but your friends is to just accept them as they are. There's no need to take your son's remarks personally. They are about who HE is, not about you. So just accept that what he said is true. HE saw it as ranting. Maybe it made him think more than he wants to about the things he will face - he's decided to go, and you have to respect that, like it or not. I'm not sure it's a favor to him to make him confront the dangers. It may interfere with whatever he has going on in his head to cope. All you can do is tell him that YOU are afraid for his safety. And then hopefully, that you will love him and be his dad no matter what. He may very well need you more when he gets back, but if he's afraid you will say I told you so, he may not come to you at all.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 10:14 am
Chewpito asked a couple of questions the other day that I wanted to attempt to answer. I tried yesterday and I accidentally deleted the entire post. I was pretty upset and growled to Baby about it. LOL The questions.... "I agree on the self esteem being hurt when your a child, WHY, does it stick with us?" "How does our childhood effect our adulthood..??" My response.... Many psychologist agree that self-esteem is pretty much set by the age of 6. As infants and toddlers we learn a few things. We learn that the world is a good place, safe, loving, secure or we learn that the world is not safe or secure. It's kinda of scary. During these early years we also learn our place in the world. We learn we are pleasing or not. We learn we are important or not. We learn if we matter...we learn if our successes matter or our failures. We learn what gets us attention. We also learn coping mechanisms when our needs aren't met. Some babies scream louder and louder when needs aren't met. Others give up crying quickly and still others, don't cry much at all. A baby left in a crib all morning, wet and hungry learns the world isn't safe, learns he doesn't matter. While the baby who's needs are met promptly learns the world is safe and he matters. When we're young children, we are selfish and tend to take everything personally. It's hard to distinguish "me" from "my behavior" so it's very important how parents word things. When we're young we are learning to relate to others. How to cope with unpleasant things. Some of us learn aggressive behavior works. Others learn passive behavior works. We also learn from watching our parents and people around us. Someone sent me a book recently, (thanks DogDoc), about how our early childhood memories can indicate our self-esteem and world view. The books said to think about a few of your earliest memories, preferably before the age of eight. When you recall them focus on how you felt at the time. Happy, proud, lonely, hurt, scared, loved etc. A them should develop and it indicates how you feel at the core, NOW. It certainly showed a theme in my life which was reflective of how I see myself. I believe early views and coping mechanisms follow us into adulthood. We learn defense mechanisms that grow stronger as we age. I certainly don't believe we consciously learn bad coping skills, but we all do and they follow us into adulthood. I believe we can "unlearn" any learned behavior, including these things that seem like inborn personality traits. It's very difficult to do, but it can be done. First you have to be aware of the problem and really look at it. That's often hard to do because who really wants to look at the "ugly" parts of themselves? Next you have to consciously become aware of an almost unconscious behavior. That's really hard. Each time you become consciously aware of it you have to stop immediately and do something else. And then not beat your self up for failing...just keep trying and it gets better. Eventually you will break those habits...and behaviors. When I was pushing and pushing to fight NOW...because of my anxiety and fears of abandonment, it was very difficult to change my behavior. I never did it on purpose to hurt him...but in some ways it was very passive-aggressive behavior. I just couldn't stand the thought of him leaving. I had to consciously stop...I literally called myself on having a behavior. I would literally say, "I'm having a behavior," then go to my room and let him leave. Facing my fear and anxiety alone was scary as hell. But I had to if I really wanted to change that behavior. I really did. Anyway, hope my response helps Chewpito.
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Gradstudent
Member
07-10-2005
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 10:31 am
Kearie, Do you mind if I send you an email?
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 11:20 am
Not at all Grad. Please do...
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:02 pm
I'm not disagreeing but if self-esteem is pretty much set by age 6 then it must be largely sub-conscious. I don't remember a lot about my life prior to age 6. Now having said that, the few things that I can remember are very wonderful memories. Maybe because we consciously remember so little, the few conscious memories that we have from that age are very powerful?
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:03 pm
Well Kearie, I think it was certainly worth waiting for your post. I think it's great..lots and lots of useful information. Lots and lots of great "food for thought" to ponder on! And I, myself, can so relate to much of it. I also believe it isn't just enough to be aware of one's shortcomings. I believe first you must become aware but then you need to follow up with changing that behavior. It may take work, sometimes very hard work on your part to make the change. But, I do believe, we are capable of change. We have to put the effort into it, though! We are never too old to change and I hope I never stop trying to change "Carol" for the better! Hopefully, right up to the day I die!
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:11 pm
Jimmer, I think that was the point of the book. You remember wonderful memories, you probably felt very secure as a child and your needs were met. Your parents probably spent time with you praising you for stacking blocks and knocking them over. Feelings of love and security were in your early childhood and you recall things that verify those early childhood prevalent feelings. My memories reflect fear of getting in trouble. Feelings of rejection. My self-esteem still low. I struggle with those same fears today. Planted in early childhood and full grown in adulthood. Granted, things can change...but not without lots of work.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:25 pm
I agree with Kearie about the early childhood memory stuff. Heck, all you have to do is watch a few episodes of Starting Over to see how people get 'stuck' behaviorly at age 5 or 6 and how that affects them in their adult lives. It CAN be overcome, but it takes work. I have mixed memories of childhood, many before age 6. Unfortunately, most of the ones that are vivid are negative. Sort of like that line in Pretty Woman when Julia Roberts says how easy it is to remember the bad stuff. I remember hiding in the back of my closet when my mom would be on a cussing, throwing things rampage (never knew what would set her off). I remember being extremely grateful when she took a full-time job and I got to go to the babysitters (I was 4 and that's how I met my still-best friend, whose mom was the sitter). I remember bringing a fistfull of pretty purple flowers to my mom and getting yelled at for bringing "stink weed" into the house (they were lupins, which do smell bad when picked, but to me they were beautiful). Fortunately, I also remember good times. Those were times spent with my dad. Camping trips, fishing, hanging out with him in the garage, stuff like that. I'm grateful that I have the contrast. It's reflected in my life now in that I sometimes have lots of confidence and self esteem and other times all the negative thoughts and feelings take over. I work at staying in that positive area and probably always will have to work at it. I have to say that a big step in me coming to terms with myself and these issues was forgiving my mom. Not excusing her behavior in slapping me around for most of my childhood, but understanding that she had her own troubles that were unresolved and letting go of my resentments about things. Once I could see her as a person and have some empathy for her and her demons, it was easier for me to stop being "victim" and start moving forward.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:30 pm
I like what Max said... "I have to say that a big step in me coming to terms with myself and these issues was forgiving my mom. Not excusing her behavior in slapping me around for most of my childhood, but understanding that she had her own troubles that were unresolved and letting go of my resentments about things. Once I could see her as a person and have some empathy for her and her demons, it was easier for me to stop being "victim" and start moving forward." That's when we start learning forgiveness is for ourselves, not other people who wronged us.
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