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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 6:27 am
I think that is a reasonable question – when do you ever really know someone? How long do you wait? When is it safe? An example of how hard this is to know, is the number of people who end up separated and divorced. I'm sure these people were confident that they knew their ex pretty well when they married him or her. So you can never ever be absolutely sure – can you? Don't you have to take a little chance in life?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 6:43 am
I think it can take a year to know how serious a relationship will be, or if it's one that you want to commit to, of course that does depend on how much time you spend together. Newman, I find it very unfortunate that you don't seem to get what it's like to be a single woman with children. The fact is, some men out there are very frightening AND very good actors. I dated a man for four months before I found out he was a compulsive liar (and very good at it) and also had a record. Evreyone thought he was the nicest guy I ever dated (until we learned the truth). When I broke it off, he stalked me for several months. So, no, I don't think 3 weeks or 3 months IS suffiicent. When you bring a child into this world, it's your job to try to keep them safe, and not to do things that jeopardize their safety. It's a role I'm proud to do, and not a sacrifice in any way. And to characterize what we are doing is lying is, well, I don't have words for that. No one is lying to say I'm spending time with a friend. ANd hopefully you ARE friends with someone you are dating. A child does not need to know all your business, and in fact, it's cruel and irresponsible to tell them things that would overwhelm them. I think the parents here are very responsible, devoted to their children, and I admire them greatly. Each of them takes the time to know what is best for their own children, and acts accordingly. That's just what excellent parents do!
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 6:50 am
as much as i love my dh if i had known he had ADD (he didn't even realize it) before we got married i would have approached our relationship differently. as we only saw each other (separated by 200 miles) on the weekends during our courtship i didn't realize he had ADD. after we had been living with each other for awhile we started having problems because of my not understanding that he had a problem and him not knowing what was wrong either. not saying that i am perfect either. i was determined that we could find a way to live together and not divorce. it took 4 years of on again off again counseling and changing counselors until we found someone who knew exactly what the core of our problems was. now that i have a better idea of what ADD is and the things *I* have to do to live with someone with it our marriage is a lot better. it isn't easy. so, if i had known would i have not married him? maybe, maybe not. you just can't learn everything about a person until you live with them and then you still might not.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 7:45 am
Like Mocha, my time, which I only have when my son is at his dad's, is my business. I try not to drill him on his time away and, being a kid, he doesn't usually have a profound interest in what I did. I will say I would not lie to my son. I may not tell the whole truth or I may tell him it's none of his business, but I would not lie. The greatest lesson I learned from my ex is that there is no way humanly possible to completely know a person. You can be with a person 24/7 and there is still no way to know that person's every single thought. We too often make the mistake of thinking we know what a person will say or do, good or bad, because we believe we know that person so well. But there can always be that one time where they don't say or do what is not the norm for them. I'm always amazed when I hear someone say he/she couldn't or wouldn't have done that and parents can be the worst at that. My question is how do you know? I have never done that with my son because I know all too well that anything's possible.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 8:10 am
Wow, just friggin wow.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 8:21 am
I agree with Karuuna's post. Single moms have to be very wary of men who prey on us -- they see us as vulnerable and our kids as vulnerable. Any guy who was too interested in my child or pressuring me to hurry things along would throw up red flags. Anyone who doesn't have the time to wait for me to be ready is someone who may be putting on a show that they can't sustain for long. Clearly some single moms are not as cautious as us and some get burned and some don't and end up finding wonderful men. For me, right now, I'm not interested in taking that kind of chance. No, I would never lie to my child about going out. I go out with female friends and don't share all the details. She just knows I'm going dancing. She has met my female friends but they are not a part of her regular life. I would see dating as no different.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 8:26 am
Excellent post Kar.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 8:28 am
I don't lie to my son when I go out. I say I am going out with a friend. It would scare the shit out of me if a guy was pushy and got upset because I would not allow him to come over and spend time with my son. I mention my son when dating. I don't know where that came from. How can you not? Just because I don't want the guy to meet him after knowing him for 3 weeks doesn't mean I am embarrassed or ashamed of my son. My uncle dated a woman for 12 years before they got married, he didn't introduce his daughter to this woman for 8 years. My cousin never thought that he was embarrassed or ashamed of her,.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 8:45 am
Wow as well. I know there are some guys out there who are very bad. It's a sad world though when you have to be suspicious of every guy who likes kids. What a lousy cynical choice to have to make. Reject guys who are interested in you and your kids because there is a possibility that they may not have good intentions and date guys who display no interest in your kids. And then what happens when you come to care about the "safe" guy who has no interest in your children. It's not likely that he will want to be a part of their (and your) lives. It's strange that for a long time in this thread we were talking about being positive and looking at life in a positive way. All this recent talk has done is made me think what a crappy world we live in. 
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Merrysea
Member
08-13-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:05 am
I haven't dated in a while, but my sons are a bit older. When oldest was 16 or 17, he told me that he wanted to meet my dates because "you can tell a lot about a guy by the way he treats your kids." I still tended to only date when they were with their dad, but now I would feel fine with them meeting someone (they're 16, 20 and 22, all with birthdays quickly approaching!) because if the guy turned out to be bad, my boys would be great protection! 
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:06 am
aw, I don't think it's a crappy world, I think it's a mixed world. It is a world in which you must be cautious because there are some whacko human beings out there. But it's always been that way. Just like it has also always been that there are wondering caring people who would go out of their way to save the life of a stranger. I don't focus on the negative, but I am always aware of it at the same time.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:07 am
Jimmer, I guess I am a cynic but I guess it comes from being snakebit one too many times. All you have to do is watch the news to know that this is a very unsafe world for children. My ex's three oldest children were all molested by their stepfather, the oldest having been kidnapped and molested by another boyfriend of mom's before that when she was around 5. I had my own experience with an uncle. Those things are going to make a person more cautious. We can't let our children run the streets like we Baby Boomers did at their age. My son wants everyone to be his friend and I hate that I am constantly having to remind him that not everyone who is friendly to him has good intentions. I know there are wonderful safe men out there. I know many. I also know that given my track record I am not real sure how well I can trust my judgment. With a child, I can't afford to make the mistakes in judgment that I have in the past. But I don't believe that's why I don't have any interest at this time. I really am content with the way things are right now.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:10 am
quote:I know there are wonderful safe men out there. I know many. I also know that given my track record I am not real sure how well I can trust my judgment. With a child, I can't afford to make the mistakes in judgment that I have in the past.
Exactly!!!!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:28 am
I understand how you feel because I have the same concerns about my kids. I don't want them to be terrified and cynical and afraid, but I also don't want them to be too trusting either. It's complicated. Sorry if my previous comments were rather negative. I'm always careful to try not to personalize people's comments because I feel that it can make me read things into them that aren't there. The problem is that I like kids. I could see myself as being the guy you reject because I would want to care about your kids and get to know them. It makes me feel sad that this would be taken as a negative quality. I liked Karuuna's post where she talked about it being a mixed world. I feel better about it now. 
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:32 am
Jimmer, would you be offended or sad because a woman would not want you to meet her kid(s) after 2-3 weeks?
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Penguingirl
Member
01-26-2006
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:37 am
Interesting stuff here. Being a person who dated and married a man with kids, you could say I'm on the other side of this discussion. No kiddos of my own to take into consideration, but did with his. Like others here, I met the kids at social functions before dh and I started dating. The weekends they were at their mother's were vital to our "getting to know each other". And I'll add, if we ever divorced and I found myself back in the dating world, I'd shy away from getting involved with a guy who has primary custody of underage kids...once is enough for this chica. Not that I'm bitter about our growing years, I just don't have the energy or desire to deal with it all again. I understand and respect a parent's caution on protecting their kids. I also think how that concern is communicated to the other person is very important. Being considered a perv when you aren't one is a pretty hefty insult.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:48 am
Jimmer, I don't think you sounded negative. I always appreciate your comments from the male viewpoint. I agree that many of us probably do sound cynical. It's part of being a mom protecting her child. Penguin, I have also been on the other side of the coin (twice). One would not even consider me staying overnight when his girls were there. The other relished it because it showed his ex he could get himself another woman. And he tried to do it to me too after our divorce, but his gf would not stay overnight if my son was there because she didn't feel it was right.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:05 am
Thanks NT!
quote:Jimmer, would you be offended or sad because a woman would not want you to meet her kid(s) after 2-3 weeks?
Not if it was only 2-3 weeks, particularly depending on the relationship. Goodness - If we were only seeing each other once a week, then we would only have had three dates by that point and a very limited time to get to know each other. However, I had the impression that some people here were talking about many months, a year and possibly never. In general though I think it would depend on the relationship and how emotionally intimate it has become. If we were emotionally intimate and the woman was talking about her children then I could see feeling very left out not meeting them. I'd also be a little uncomfortable if she wasn't talking about her children. ETA: Also I think I would be offended (and hurt) if after we had got to know each other, I told her how much I'd like to meet her kids and she treated me in a suspicious way like there was something wrong with what I was suggesting. It would really make me second guess my relationship with her and whether or not we have any real future together.
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Chewpito
Member
01-04-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:31 am
I guess I was not much of a dater. I never really left my daughter with babysitters. I did while I worked. That was enough. I enjoyed camping trips,bar-b-q's,things that brought lots of people and children togeather. Cooking dinner at home, watching movies, spending normal life things with people I was not intrested in--going out to dinner/dances/places where only big people go was not so much fun for me after I had my daughter, I wanted her with me. I wanted a home life. I still say I love what the men, I brought into my daughters life and mine brought to us. By spending lots of time with them I got to see first hand how they were with thier children and mine. There are bad people out there but im not waiting for it around every corner. I want to spend as much time with someone and have them around people I care about- if they have somthing to hide/some horible life style/ I want to see it with my eyes wide open and not be shocked or taken for surprize down the way.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:19 am
Jimmer -- it is a tricky balance. No, I wouldn't date a man that didn't have any interest in kids or my kid. He wouldn't want to date me either because I'd talk about her all the time! I also wouldn't date a man who seemed more interested in spending time with my kid than me. I wouldn't date a man who wanted to spend time with my kids without me, who offerred to take them overnight, etc. If I had dated someone for 3 weeks, the wouldn't have met my kid. That's probably only 3 dates. For 3 months? Yes, they would have probably met for lunch or a trip to the zoo. It would be a slow process of them getting to know each other as just another one of my friends -- doesn't matter that he's male. It would take a long time and a very good sense of security in the relationship before I'd allow my kid and him to start building a relationship of their own.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:55 am
I agree with Brenda's plan. I think I would feel good with a take on Newman's 3-date rule and make a 3-month rule if we are dating on average once a week. If we are not dating on that average (once every couple of weeks or less) I would probably lengthen that 3 months. I don't think I would stretch it out much more than that because what happens when you've invested all that time and emotion into a potentially serious relationship and then either he hates your child, your child hates him or they hate each other. I see it this way. If I start dating someone, he will definitely know that I have a child. I will explain to him my reasons for not introducing him to my child immediately and I will also make sure he understands that my child has special needs. He can either respect my wishes and understand that I come in a not-so-neat package with my son or he can walk. If he stays, we'll see what happens. If he walks, good riddance.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:59 am
exellent native! having a special needs child makes it all the more difficult.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:38 pm
I think the reality is that someone who truly cares about your children will want to do what is best for them; and will wait as long as it is necessary to wait to ensure their well being. In fact, it ends up being a pretty good barometer of whether a relationship will work. It's nothing personal about them or you or anyone. It's just wanting to be sure that their tender hearts are protected. I think adults should be the ones to bear the pain of broken relationships, and not inflict it on their children until the possibility of brokeness is lessened by having gotten to know the other person very well, over time.
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Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:56 pm
I know Kar has a great deal of data on psychological and sociological subjects. I am wondering if offhand there is any accepted percentage of pedophiles in the US population. I just started a great book, The Sociopath Next Door which claims 4% of the population are certifiable sociopaths. That is one in 25 folks.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Friday, May 12, 2006 - 1:11 pm
Gidget, I am very well acquainted with one of those 25.
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