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Archive through May 02, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussion ARCHIVES: 2006 Mar. ~ 2006 May: Free Expressions: Hollywood Gossip (ARCHIVES): Archive through May 02, 2006 users admin

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Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 7:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Do any people posting here actually know any Scientologists? Do you have any personal experience with them?

The reason I ask that question is that we have friends who are Scientologists. I know a little about Scientology from what they have explained (only when I asked) but I don't know much about it. LOL - I do know that I am a "pre-clear" to them, but I don't care if they think I have three heads for that matter!

What I do know and care about is that these people that I actually know seem to be wonderful people. I can't say enough good things about them. They are polite, they are nice, they contribute to the community, they are friendly, they treat people with respect and kindness and they have a wonderful little girl who has been a great friend to my daughters.

So while I may not agree with some of the Scientology precepts that I have heard expressed by various celebrities, I wanted to offer another perspective.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 8:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Well, it does help people through their addictions. That is one positive thing I'll say. But other things really bother me.

I did a bunch of reading about it because I wanted to draw my own conclusions. It has all the hallmarks of a cult.

Here are some of the behaviors and beliefs that bother me:

1. It is the only religion I know of that saves its 'big' message for only those who can pay for it.

2. That E-Meter thing is akin to a lie detector--in that it records the body's responses to certain questions in a formal test administered by Scientologists.

They use the E-meter test results to sell you courses designed to help one achieve the 'clear' state. (Meaning you can honestly answer all 200 questions 'correctly.' (You can find the test on the net, btw.)

Early on (in the 50s), it was called the poor man's psychoanalysis). Now the first courses cost about $4,500. And the top level courses are about 8 times that much.

3. They eschew psychology and any need for medicine or doctors. They believe that all illness is due to your hangups (lack of 'clear' state).

4. Their 'big' message that Scientologists share when you are at some elevated stage in the military-like ranks is that (1) we evolved from clams; and (2) some bad alien (Xena) dropped all of us on earth and imbued us with negatives that are keeping us from achieving our potential. Once we free ourselves of the negatives, we reach the 'clear state' and function better. They also believe in reincarnation. All of this was leaked by Scientologists who left the fold. (All of this can be found readily online from credible sources.)

5. If a person 'leaves' Scientology, the other members shun the person, even if it is a member of their own family. There is a formal procedure, where the banishment (not what they call it) is written on gold paper.

6. There are stories of keeping some of the members prisoners (a death has been attributed to their treatment of one woman) and denying medical help for those that request/need it.

7. They keep lists of people they want to recruit.

8. They keep lists of those members they believe to be troublesome. Debating the philosophy, doubting and asking questions are all discouraged.

Read the Rolling Stones article. Go online and read some of the pros and cons. I think this religion is scary as hell. (Course I think some other religions are, too.)

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 8:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ladytex a private message Print Post    
It is helpful to some people. I read Dianetics when I was in high school and it helped me cope with some bad stuff going on in my life. I've never gone to any Scientology meetings or any of that so I can't speak on that.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
I was thinking Clearwater is the world headquarters of Scientology. I lived in Tampa in the 1970's and "the cult" that was being established there was really big stuff.

Okay, I just read half the Rolling Stone article. I see that is true about Clearwater being the world headquarters.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wendo a private message Print Post    
Whether one knows a Scientologist or has had personal experience with Scientology does not mean one can't form an opinion about it or determine it to be a cult.

As Herckle has pointed out, Scientology exhibits all the accepted hallmarks of a cult. And, while some people may be helped by a cult, doesn't mean it's still not a cult.

Further, good people get caught up in cults all the time. In fact, I would argue that cults often pray on said good people.

Personally, I find Scientology to be a cult and not a church.

Max
Moderator

08-12-2000

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Max a private message Print Post    
I think the question of whether anyone has friends who are Scientologists is a good one. Not from the perspective of being able to make a judgment on whether or not one thinks the organization is like a cult, but because sometimes one's perception of how an organization affects individual thinking changes when one has personal experience with someone who is involved with the organization.

I have no idea if anyone I know is a Scientologist. Heck I don't know what religion most of them are because the subject doesn't always come up.

I do know that I think organizations that require secrets to be kept by their members or that require one to be bestowed with certain levels of achievement to be granted the 'wisdom' of an 'inner circle' is not for me. If it's such great stuff, then why do you want to be so selfish with it?

I have known some very wonderful, intelligent folks who are Mormons and I have lots of questions about these same kinds of issues regarding their beliefs. If it's so great, why can't anyone come in and find out about it? Why are some portions of the religion secret? I just don't get it.

But then, I never understood the whole sorority and fraternity thing in college, either. Those seem just as "cultish" to me as any of the rest of these organizations. :-)

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wendo a private message Print Post    
Not only why are some things secret, but why do you have to pay money to find them out.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 12:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Has anyone ever watched that show "30 Days" hosted by Morgan Spurlock (of SuperSize Me fame)? This conversation makes me think of the "Muslin/Christian" episode. They got a Christian guy to spend 20 days with a Muslim family, living AS a Muslim, and learning about the religion. It's a great show, if you have access.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 6:35 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
There are many things that may seem strange to non-believers about most religions. It's all too easy to make fun of different religions and beliefs if one wants to.

Whether one knows a Scientologist or has had personal experience with Scientology does not mean one can't form an opinion about it or determine it to be a cult.

No argument here. As I said, I'm simply offering the additional perspective of someone who actually knows some Scientologists and asking if anyone else has had any personal experience or contact with them.

Babyruth
Member

07-19-2001

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 7:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyruth a private message Print Post    
About a dozen years ago I dated a woman who was an ex-Scientologist. She told me a lot about it, much of which is confirmed above in the article HP posted. It's much more than a cult or "religion", although that's how it started; it's a vast, complex money and power empire. Her older brother was a higher-up Scientologist for years who also eventually quit when he could no longer live with some very distressing things about the organization. He was tracked, threatened and harassed for years by Scientology for quitting.

There was a very interesting article in Premiere Magazine in 1993 about Scientology for those who want to google it and learn more. Here's a link to a site with the article posted.

Irishtxgrl
Member

12-07-2005

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 10:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Irishtxgrl a private message Print Post    
Glad to know not all of them are weirdos

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 10:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, I'm sure they are lovely people, and that there are many wonderful people who are also Scientologists, but I agree with those saying that this doesn't make the organization a positive one (and, sure, some of their tools, like the early books, might help someone in life. I have more faith in you as a person, Ladytex, than in a particular book or tool. One thing I read in that long Rolling Stone article, was that in his original writings, Hubbard frowned on homosexuals, masterbaters and mixed marriages (however, this seems to have been dropped, to the credit of the Scientology movement) but still some one might learn something from one or more of their tools.

In some cases, people may have grown in spite of some of those tools.

Back when I was attending professional conferences about Psych. trauma, dissocition and such, quite a few sessions dealt in depth with information about cults and cult-like organizations and cult-like relationships.

Narconon was one of the listed organizations in presentations by experts on that subject.

The organization is bothersome to me for the reasons others have listed.

I think, for me, it works to deal with individuals as such, and to evaluate organizations on their own merits.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Once again I agree and one could make similar arguments about Christianity and other religions. However, I don't see that happening in this thread (nor do I particularly want to see it).

By the way (at the risk of sounding like a broken record), I am not attempting to defend Scientology or suggest that the organization is something positive. I was simply commenting on my personal experience with some members.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 12:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
I got you, Jimmer--from the beginning. And I think having personal experiences with actual Scientologists does help to put things into perspective. For example, I can separate some of the Catholic dogma from the people I know who are Catholic (including my dh).

I'm guessing that unless Scientologists are high up in the food chain that they simply apply pieces of Dianetics that make sense to them to their daily lives and skip the rest.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 12:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Herckleperckle a private message Print Post    
Eeyore, I did watch that show. I found it amazing. I never thought the guy (a Baptist?) would ever acknowledge one good thing about the Muslim religion, but he eventually did. I learned a lot about the Muslim religion watching the show.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 1:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
Anna Nicole Smith wins Supreme Court ruling


By PATTY REINERT
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON — A unanimous U.S. Supreme Court sided with Anna Nicole Smith today, clearing the way for the former Playboy Playmate to pursue a piece of her late Houston oil tycoon husband's multimillion dollar estate.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3831705.html

Twiggyish
Member

08-14-2000

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 1:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twiggyish a private message Print Post    
I don't really know if any of our friends are into Scientology. As long as they don't try to influence us, I really don't care.

Sherbabe
Member

07-28-2002

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 3:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sherbabe a private message Print Post    
First Tom Cruise and Brooke Shield have baby girl on the same day.

now, today,

Shaquille Oneal and Kobe Bryant both have girls on the same day.

I love irony.

Playdates, anyone.

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 5:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Abby7 a private message Print Post    
some of the greatest people i've known, lived with, shared many experiences with are scientologists. some of the worst people i've known (thankfully never lived with the worst), are scientologists.

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 5:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Abby7 a private message Print Post    
Gal, hope you don't mind, i took part of one of your posts:

Like most religions/religious organizations, I'm sure Scientology has much good to offer. Unfortunately the public face of Scientology these days presents mostly the batshit side of the situation. They certainly need a new spokesperson.
-------

well, there may be some hope on that. the previous Los Angeles rep, i'll just call him HJ was a lunatic IMO. the new Los Angeles rep is a person by the name of Chel. she really is a great person. here is a wedding picture of her:

http://www.rexaquarium.com/music.html

that is Chel when she married Bill Wadhams in Fresno, CA. i was at that wedding. Bill Wadhams used to be a scientologist until early 80's (when Chel and he divorced). Bill Wadhams used to be in the group animotion. remember that song, Obsession?

oh man, i'm really going back here and aging myself. lol i haven't spoken to chel for almost 20 years though. (actually she got her whole family in, even her mother back in early 1970's)

also, i've really been debating about sharing any info. on this thread. i would rather share any info. in the community area (so only members can read). i'm a bit paranoid about this subject.

eta: that site above is Chel and Bill's sons' website. they are in a band too and put chel and bill's wedding picture on their cd (aww, so sweet).

Sherbabe
Member

07-28-2002

Monday, May 01, 2006 - 8:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sherbabe a private message Print Post    
Mods, can we just start a scientology thread? I'ts beyond hollywood gossip.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 11:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Goddessatlaw a private message Print Post    
Maybe we could just get back on topic. Like this article - it made me laugh out loud:

An open letter to Suri Cruise

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 11:10 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
That was kind of funny. Did anyone see the one where Donald Trump fired his baby?

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 11:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
Back to old gossip: this whole thing about how Denise "stole" Sambora from Locklear irritates me. She didn't steal him -- Heather kicked him to the curb! I think he's fair game. I've never bought into this very common female idea that once I date a guy, he's off limits to everyone I know.

Heather is divorcing him -- he's back on the market -- he's free to date whom he choses. Maybe Denise and Richie really are in love. Now, before dating an ex of someone you know, you have to carefully weigh whether you want to sacrifice the friendship because it will likely be a casualty of the relationship. But, no, I don't think Denise stole Richie -- she just picked him up from the curb.

And that's my 2 cents.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 12:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eeyoreslament a private message Print Post    
Well, didn't Lockelear RECENTLY file for divorce, after finding emails from a common woman they knew? And new reports are putting Richards together with Sambora since December. Coincidence?