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Archive through April 27, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussion ARCHIVES: 2006 Mar. ~ 2006 May: Baby Boomers, Living Alone, Changing Habits (ARCHIVES): Archive through April 27, 2006 users admin

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Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 6:10 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
not saying that someone who is closed by your definition doesn't have any regrets. what i am saying is the fact that they are closed wouldn't necessarily be the reason to have them.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 8:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
I'm intelligent and I've done some good. I've made a difference is several people's lives.

In all of Freud's freakiness, he did open the door to modern psychology. However most modern shrinks think he was a total nut case and there is evidence he was incestuous. A good difference and a bad difference.

Newman...did you see my earlier post asking what you mean by "open" vs "closed". Do you mean introverted and extroverted? Do you mean open minded vs close minded? Or do you mean people who value privacy and those who don't. Do you mean people who answer inappropriate, rude questions or those who would rather not?

I'm just not sure what you mean and why you think one is better.

Newman, just a thought... very few things in this world are black and white. Most are various shades of grey. Labeling and categorizing people is doing an injustice to yourself and other people.

Sure, we all do it to a degree, some more than others. In any case, I don't think it's something to be proud of, instead I think it's something we all need to work at NOT doing.

Yellek
Member

08-22-2001

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 8:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yellek a private message Print Post    
One thing I've noticed about myself and labeling is that anytime I think someone has put a 'label' on me, I try very hard to no longer fit that label. I hate the feeling of someone assuming I'm one certain way and that's it. I think we are all very complex personalities and there is no way to fit that into the tiny box that labels shove you into.

When I was young, I was the "smart kid". They tried to get me to skip a grade, and I refused. I tried to do poorly in school, by writing a research paper by copying it directly from the encyclopedia, by not turning one in (the teacher assume SHE lost it and gave me an A anyway). They kept putting my into the advanced classes, so I flunked a class on purpose. All I wanted was to be myself, not have to fit the labels they were putting on me.

Merrysea
Member

08-13-2004

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 11:35 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Merrysea a private message Print Post    
landi, if I think of something, I'll be sure to ask!

Tater
Member

03-19-2003

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 12:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tater a private message Print Post    
Labels put on people and ones self tend to backfire IMHO. I was always the smart one. When I was 16 I got my drivers license and became the main driver of the family. My mom didn’t drive and my father was only home on weekends. My sister was 14 and my brothers were 3 and 1. Looking back, that was a lot of stress to put on a new driver. But I did it. I lugged two car seats around with pride. I was a good driver. Then 5 years ago on Christmas day, I had an accident. It was my fault. I missed a stop sign and hit a car head on at 55mph. I became disabled. Thank god the people in the other truck involved were okay. I will never forget the look of horror on the Childs face in the oncoming car.

The label of a good driver that was put on me by my family and myself became quite a burden. It has taken five years for me to forgive myself. You would think since I was the “smart one”, it wouldn’t have taken so long.


Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 12:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
(((Tater))) I am so sorry you had to endure that.

I am terrified of driving, and refuse to, even though its considered a rite of passage and everyone seems to have a drivers licence. I took driver's ed when I was 21 and I could back into a parking space on a dime! But I am NOT observant, nor do I trust my instincts, so I'd be afraid of looking left instead of right, and then whammo. I flunked drivers ed the first time out, and nobody told me that its normal to have to take the test over sometimes a few times over. So I just took it as a message from 'above' that I was not meant to drive. Besides if I was meant to drive, why are there so many taxis around?

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 1:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
The only thing that I can say is that people make mistakes all of the time. Fortunately, the vast majority of the time, nothing happens and we just move on. Sadly, on rare occasions something does happen. It's hard not to single oneself out when a bad thing happens but we have all probably done similar things on occasion and gotten away with it.

Tater
Member

03-19-2003

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 1:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tater a private message Print Post    
Thank you MameB. LOL!
My mom used to drive but before she and my father married they were involved in a bad accident and she went through the windshield. She became afraid to drive, rightfully so. She did drive for about six months when I was six. My father was transferred to California and we were stuck in Florida. She had to drive my sister and me to our weekly allergy shots. When we got to Los Angeles she saw the traffic, yes there was traffic way back in 70, and said heck no to driving.

Jimmer you said it! It does make it harder to forgive ones self. I like to think it happened for a reason. If it had not happened I would still be working very hard in LA and not have found TVCH. I have found some very special people here whom I have grown to love. Friendship is something that is a blessing.


Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 7:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
(((Tater))) I agree with what Jimmer said completely. We all make mistakes. When I make a mistake while doing a surgery it can be a life and death situation for the animal. On some occasions the animal has died and paid the price for what I did wrong. The thing is, if I said to myself this is going to happen again so I am going to quit I would never become a better surgeon. Making mistakes is common to everybody. If we learn from them we can advance. If we drown in them we will never know what would have happened if we kept on going. Each new day is a gift meant to be lived fully and not be brought down by regret from the past.

Tater
Member

03-19-2003

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 8:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tater a private message Print Post    
Thank you DD. It has taken me awhile to forgive myself for making a mistake. I wallowed far too long. As a matter of fact, today was the first time that I actually wrote that I made a mistake and forgave myself. I truly have forgiven myself. I feel like I am free to live again. That is the greatest gift to give ones self.

Buttercup
Member

09-10-2000

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 8:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Buttercup a private message Print Post    
Good for you, Tater

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 8:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Dogdoc that is a wonderful candid message. I've often wondered how Doctors do it and I'm just happy that they are able to.

And it makes me feel good to hear you say that Tater!

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 8:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
The only real failure is to give up trying.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 9:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Well I sure feel good having read the latest posts here. :-) Time for a group hug! :-)

Baby
Member

01-08-2006

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 9:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Baby a private message Print Post    
You know, people have tried to label me all my life. But so far, they have'nt succeeded. They can keep trying if they want but it tain't gonna work!

From day one, I was labeled. When I was born, my mom was told I would never live. She was told to just take me home and make me comfortable. Then they said I would just be a vegetable and to put me in an institution. I remembered my parents and I went to visit one but I have never in my life lived in one. My mom was told to put me in a school for kids with special needs. I have never been to such a school in my life. The docs said I would never walk and gave up on me. My mom took me home and taught me how to walk (with braces and crutches). They said I would never drive. Well, I did that for many years. They said I would have a low I.Q. and would never amount to anything. My I.Q. is in the high normal range and I went to college. They said I would never have children. I had a son. And right now, they do consider me a miracle because they say there is no way that I should be here at 57 years of age. But guess what? I am and I am still kicking, a bit slower nowadays but I still am hanging in there!

I guess what I am trying to say is that from day one, if my mom had listened to the labels that others tried to put on me, I have no idea what my life would have been like and I sincerely have my doubts that I would have survived very long.

In my eyes, labeling others is just so wrong. It can be so destructive, harmful and hurtful. I hope others will stop and think before they try to put a label on someone. Labeling can totally ruin lives!

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Baby, I just wanna give your mom a big fat KISS! She's my new hero, as are you! Your mom never gave up on you... with all the hurdles you both had to jump, she was by your side, believing in you... what a blessing, and a gift, honey... I was born a healthy baby with all working parts, and my mom somehow decided I was defective (that was my label, I guess) and kept trying to fix me. She kept hollering 'Analyze Yourself' to me, over and over. So the assumption was that something was obviously wrong with me. I just could never figure out what it was. There was never any loyalty. I was usually the enemy. When she realized I am who I am, as soon as she could get away with it, (my dad moved to the States), she got rid of me into the system because I didn't fit her expectations of the perfect daughter. I envy you Baby. I really do. Sorry if it makes me an even less appealing human being. But I can't help but think of how wonderful, and supportive your mom was to you and how she was your tower of strength and built you up instead of tearing you down.... When your mom looked at you, she obviously saw how wonderful you are, how you shine, and all of your golden potential. When my mom looked at me she saw a freak and a misfit. And because that's how she saw me, that gave carte blanche for others to buy into her label for me, and treat me accordingly. Myself included! The power of a parent to nurture or destroy is amazing.

Today, for the most part, I like who I am, but that hole in my soul is there forever.


Baby
Member

01-08-2006

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Baby a private message Print Post    
Awwwwww, thanks Mame!

It wasn't totally like that though. Much of what you said was true about my mom. She was pretty much the only one in our family (mom, dad and seven kids) who had such faith in me. But, she also pushed me. She pushed me too hard in some areas which, to this day, have caused me problems (both physically and mentally). But, I do know she did what she did because she thought it was the right thing to do and because she loved me.

I am so sorry you had to go thru what you did Mame! And I know those things had to have affected you. But look where you are today and what you have been able to do with your life! Look at all you have accomplished!

I love your last sentence, "The power of a parent to create or destroy is amazing." That says so, so much, Mame!

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 10:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
My experience in feelings was similar to Mames but I was born with serious illness. I don't know where or why, in my childhood days, I took all my visits to doctors as a way to "try to fix me".

I know as an adult mom was looking out for my health...but as a kid??? Driving out of state to visit foot doctors for my asthma seemed crazy. Something must have been really wrong with me.
(I also grew up with yelling and screaming parents...which I don't remember...but if they fought about medical bills, and I knew I was the sick one...well, as a kid I blamed myself. I made everything bad because I was bad.

I guess as a little girl I really wanted a sister. My begging is why my parents chose to adopt a girl, rather than a boy. I was six and she was 2. My brother was 8 when we got her.

At an early age I resented her for being the child who replaced me. She was the good one. I was the bad one. My parents believed they were doing what was best for me . . . not knowing how I would intrepret things.

Baby~~~your mom is amazing.

It's strange how kids interpret things when they are little. I think this is one of the reasons siblings and twins can behave so differently.

If you look at birth order books, it also shows how the order of your birth can mold you because children treat each child a little different ... even when they don't notice it.

Social interactions are different between the first born and youngest. The oldest develops without learning to share early on. He is all there is. Praise and attention isn't divided between others. Subsequent children learn with other kids around so the dynamics is completely different for younger children.

Nature vs nurture.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 6:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Are we labeling people who label? It kind of sounds like it.

Labeling is the way our mind is organized. If we couldn't generalize, we couldn't function. Something is alive or not alive; some people are tall, some are short, some people are introverted, some are extroverted. We even use these 'labels' on our selves.

The problem comes when labels are thought to be predictive and not descriptive, or rigid instead of flexible. But labeling itself is not a bad thing, it can be very helpful in organizing the world.

Babyruth
Member

07-19-2001

Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 7:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyruth a private message Print Post    
I believe Baby was sharing her own opinion based on her own experience. Her post describes effects of labeling that CAN happen, and she shares her hope that others are aware of the possible negative effects. Nowhere does she label people who label. (if she did, I missed it)

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
I agree with Karuuna about labeling and generalizing. It frees the mind.

The only thing wrong with labeling is if it closes your mind to exceptions and surprise.

Generally I am wary of growling dogs and angry people. Generally those are things to avoid. That's not to say that the doggy could be a sweet pup if you got to know him; same with the person.

Kearie, awhile back (it's such a beautiful day here in Colorado, I'll have to catch up on the reading later) you asked for my definition of closed vs. open.

The closed person says "none of your business". Pushes you away. Doesn't make it easy for you to get close, to get to know each other. Is guarded, stingy with personal info or opinions. Paranoid? Like I'm writing a book about them or something? Or about to give the info I've gathered to the IRS?

How about this famous saying: Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

Do we all agree with that canard? I do. It's about taking emotional risks, taking a chance on love, being vulnerable, maybe getting hurt, trying even though the other doesn't look "perfect".

I don't think a closed person can find "love" (unless they're lucky and maybe it's all about dumb luck). They're too afraid. Now me? I'm open. I've taken chances. I've made mistakes in the game of love. I'm not even sure there is such a thing as "love". But I tried. At least I can't add that to my many regrets in life. My regret is that I didn't try hard enough to find the right fit for me, in my 20s and 30s.


Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Like most things, I think there are varying degrees. I would describe myself as a closed person with people I don't know well. I don't discuss personal details with just anyone and, as I've said, I can't believe how personal people will get with someone that they hardly even know.

However, once I get to know people I can be quite open. Moving on to the mystery that is TVCH, I am much more open here than I am with my other friends. I'm not sure why that is. Possibly it is because we are all pretty open here and we have become quite close as a result.

Finally, I think that the terms "open and closed" and "extroverted and introverted" are not always equivalent. I think it is possible for someone to be a closed extrovert. It is also possible for someone to be an open introvert.

Yellek
Member

08-22-2001

Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yellek a private message Print Post    
I think it's also easier to be open in a forum like this online, than in person. Online, people can choose to react or not. In person, whoever you're talking to is pressured to react, good or bad, right then without really having much time to reflect on what's been said.

I also agree with Jimmer about being open with people you know better. You have a better idea what they will do with the information you share. Why answer personal questions some random stranger asks me? Are they asking because they want to know me better? Are they asking because they're bored? Are they the type to be considerate and kind or are they the type who just look for weaknesses in others in order to feel better about themselves?

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:32 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Perhaps open vs closed is about TRUST.

Baby
Member

01-08-2006

Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Baby a private message Print Post    
Thank you Babyruth,

You totally understood my post and you were right on in what you wrote regarding it! In other words, YOU go it! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I totally appreciate that.