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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:06 pm
sorry Newman---no offense meant. Like I said...Mormans have many great values...I myself don't want to discuss religion with strangers knocking on my door be they Mormans, Seventh Day Adventist. I respect and admire what they do in missions work. (Also just had a couple young, college guys move in the apartment complex and they go around the apts. every couple months doing mission work. ACK!) Sorry if you took offense Newman. When it comes to certain discussions, sometimes I go into them with the purpose of learning and understanding. I learned a great deal about the Jewish religion when I was talking about the Terri Schiavo case. Those are new skills I'm working on. Too be honest, many people don't like getting into serious discussions with me because I'm very passionate. My mother says I'm always trying to debate so she doesn't like talking to me. (Every four years I try talking her into voting more democrat. She usually votes with her church...er...Republican...the "Christian" party. UGH!!! (There are more issues at hand in politics than just abortion) Jimmer stated "That is certainly the Machiavellian argument. That religion was simply designed by the wealthy and the rulers, to keep the poorer masses in line and give them hope beyond this life." That makes sense and I struggled with that concept going through college. A small, private, Christian College. Studying many ancient and modern day philosophers concerning the meaning of life. Religion certainly can give hope to people but I think it (belief in God or gods) was around before wealthy rulers began. Achim's Razor...isn't this the philosophy That says...(correct me if I'm wrong please) You can believe in God and if you're right you go to heaven when you die...if you're wrong, you're just dead. If you don't believe in God and you die, you're just dead...but if you're wrong....OOOps...hellward bound. Take your pick. Just one of those things that really stuck with me. I also should admit, for the record...I grew up with a family very involved in the church. We had missionaries from around the world stay with us. A family of five lived with us for over six months. Church on Sundays and Wednesday. My parents traveled to provide sunday school, on wednesday, for small communities 2 hours away from home. My religious views have been with me ever since I can remember. Going to a Christian college and studying philosophy really made me question all my beliefs. It was a very confusing time for me. My opinion on abortion changed, it also changed on the death penalty. Anyway....Stop it Newman...you're making me babble!!! LOL
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:18 pm
Max, your post reminded me of one other thing. I can think of much I have gained believing in God, but I can't think of anything I have lost. If at the end of my life I find there is no God, so what? It's like when I found out about the tooth fairy and Santa Claus...I will never be sad I believed.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:22 pm
If you don't believe and you're wrong, you're basically screwed. If you do believe and your wrong, then whatever, right?
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:33 pm
Exactly...Going thru life believing has better odds of having a decent ending. LOL
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 1:23 pm
I don’t think that a loving God would reject someone who has attempted to lead a "good" life, just because they did not believe in him or worship him in a certain way. So I think that you’re safe whether you believe or not!
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 1:40 pm
Jimmer....one question.... If there is a loving God...even if you lead a "good life", but don't believe in Him.... Who's rejecting who? God rejecting you or you rejecting God???
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 1:41 pm
the only thing i'm worshipping right now is aplets and cotlets. dang they are but yummy! and whoever created bras is the devil!
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Bob2112
Member
06-12-2002
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 1:48 pm
I think the creator of bras was some German guy. Floppenschtopper? or something like that.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 2:05 pm
I'm with ya, Landi...but then again, think of the world we would have without them. All those eyes out... LOL Bob.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 2:30 pm
Sometimes Christians annoy me Newman. The other day I was at a friend's house and their neighbor came over. (three girls, three guys, one couple) I was forewarned that when she drinks, she talks about religion. She was trying to explain fornication to my friend's wife and one of the guys piped out that he liked fornicating. She called him an idiot and told him he was going to hell. Her and I proceeded to talk about "sin" and "forgiveness of sins". We disagreed on what we believe God forgives. By the end of the discussion, I was called a "f*cking idiot" who was doomed to hell. I just had to shake my head and roll my eyes. I really dislike some people who call themselves christians.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 2:37 pm
Bob, I think you might be thinking of Baron Von Holzenfromfloppen?

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Babyruth
Member
07-19-2001
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 2:40 pm
According to Bette Midler, it was Otto Titslinger: "'Otto Titsling, inventor and kraut, had nothing to get very worked up about. His inventions were failures, his future seemed bleak. He fled to the opera at least twice a week. One night at the opera he saw an Aida who's tits were so big they would often impede her. Bug-eyed he watched her fall into the pit, done in by the weight of those terrible tits. Oh, my god! There she blows! Aerodynamically this was a mess. Otto eyeballed the diva lying comatose amongst the reeds, and he suddenly felt the fire of inspiration flood his soul. He knew what he had to do! He ran back to his workshop where he futzed and futzed and futzed. For Otto Titsling had found his quest: to lift and mold the female breast; to point the small ones to the sky; to keep the big ones high and dry! Every night he'd sweat and snort searching for the right support. He tried some string and paper clips. Hey! He even tried his own two lips! Well, he stitched and he slaved and he slaved and he stitched until finally one night, in the wee hours of morning, Otto arose from his workbench triumphant. Yes! He had invented the worlds first over-the-shoulder-boulder-holder. Hooray! Exhausted but ecstatic he ran down the street to the diva's house bearing the prototype in his hot little hand. Now, the diva did not want to try the darn thing on. But, after many initial misgivings, she finally did. And the sigh of relief that issued forth from the diva's mouth was so loud that it was mistaken by some to be the early onset of the Siroccan Winds which would often roll through the Schwarzwald with a vengeance! Ahhhhh-i! But little did Otto know, at the moment of his greatest triumph, lurking under the diva's bed was none other than the very worst of the French patent thieves, Philippe DeBrassiere. And Phil was watching the scene with a great deal of interest! Later that night, while our Brun Hilda slept, into the wardrobe Philippe softly crept. He fumbled through knickers and corsets galore, 'til he found Otto's titsling and he ran out the door. Crying, "Oh, my god! What joy! What bliss! I'm gonna make me a million from this! Every woman in the world will wanna buy one. I can have all the goods manufactured in Taiwan." The result of this swindle is pointedly clear: Do you buy a titsling or do you buy a brassiere?"
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 2:56 pm
ROFLMAO! oh lord, what did i start? who me? i'm innocent i tell ya!
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Bob2112
Member
06-12-2002
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 3:07 pm
Floppenschtopper, Von Holzenfromfloppen and Titsling. They're like the 3 Tenors, except for women's support! <...thinks one of the Tenors could have used a Bro/Mansiere...>
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 4:56 pm
Good grief Kearie. I'm not an expert on the subject but the way that neighbour talked sure doesn't sound like what my interpretation of Christianity would be. I kind of think that if anyone is "doomed" it would be her!
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Mameblanche
Member
04-13-2005
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 8:55 pm
Like the song says... the party's over. And we got through it unscathed. I was so relieved the 'day' had finally arrived, just knowing it would be over in a few hours. I kept myself incredibly busy with doctors apts and beautifying myself for the day... and (frankly I looked hot tonight. LOL) Anyhow, I digress... I was so late coming home, all I had the time or the energy for was to scarf some pizza for supper with the family and head to the party. I didn't bother bringing down the Hanukkah stuff, as I was just worn out from the whole thing, and just wanted to go, mingle, and get it over with. So we did, and we had a ball. It really is a good building, and these are for the most part, pretty wonderful people. I made sure I was never within mingling range of the neighbour in question (see my previous post) until midway through the party when I was dashing back and forth with drinks for my dh and my mom, and some friends, so I went over to where this 'person' was sitting with a really nice neighbour of mine, and said to them, I'm bartender, anybody want a punch. The nice neighbour did, and luckily the not so nice neighbour declined, or I think she did, as I zipped away to get the nice lady's drink and didn't stick around to hear what the not so nice one said. But being a pacifist I must shamefully admit, everytime I think of the fact I went up to her and offered her a 'punch' I get the giggles. Hey, the punch was delicious. What do you think I mean? heh heh. Next year, if there is a party, I will be more specific in the newsletter (if I'm still writing it) that this is an all inclusive party and for everyone of every stripe to enjoy if they are a resident, tenant, owner, or manager of this condo. Plus I will take the time to get some hanukkah delicacies, etc, and set up a table as I did last year. I was encouraged to do that tonight by a board member, but was too tired on so many levels to bother. One nice post-script. A Christian pal who does not live in our building came by and hung out with us at the party to support me, as she knew I was a basket-case about the whole thing for the last two weeks.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 11:09 am
I'm glad the party was fun....that's the way that it should be. I never understand why people want to ruin a celebration. As for the rest of you...you're cracking me up. You could come to my party.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 11:58 am
OK, I'm way behind on this thread. No offense taken, Kearie. Personally I don't like the 7th Day Adventists, Mormons, or any group of Christians that go door to door and prosyletize. That's invasive and pushy. I object to that. We all come from different places, different upbringing. I was raised in the Unity religion. Not Unitarian (which I am today by some strange quirk of fate). I think Unity was a good, somewhat liberal protestant religion that stressed the Golden Rule and the New Testament. I agree with it's philosophy except for that leap of faith. Not sure I believe in God. I'm agnostic. Never heard of Achim's Razor. Interesting. To me it translates into John Wayne, a lapsed Catholic, who, on his deathbed proclaimed his belief in Jesus. Was he sincere? Or was he just hedging his bets. Doesn't God know if you are disingenuous and you are just saying you believe in Him so you can get into heaven? Kearie, we touched on this before, and then I went off on some tangent and never developed it. Just being a good person, following the Golden Rule, won't get you into Heaven. But if you believe Jesus was the son of God and you are a scoundrel, adulterer, thief, liar, politician...then you get into heaven?!! That seems so wrong to me! Mocha, I don't want to shake your faith. But in the last archive you said something like why don't you assume that there is something greater than yourself? I see it the opposite. Why do you assume there is? Just because your parents told you to believe that way? My parents were people. They were right about some things and wrong about others. Just like me. How do I know they were right about God? Max, I identify with the limitations of words, like you expressed in the last archive. Only you take the opposite conclusions. I say why does there have to be a higher purpose? Why aren't we just simply here? What if life has NO meaning? I can appreciate nature without having to believe in God. They aren't mutually exclusive. Here's a simplistic reason why I don't believe in God. There's a solo car crash at night. The young girl is pinned under her car, down in a gulley, invisible to the road above. She prays, God please help me. Why doesn't God simply move the car, heal the leg? She can then climb up the hill, hitchhike home, and spread the word about yet another miracle from an all knowing, all loving God! Explain why that doesn't happen all you believers out there?!
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:07 pm
quote:Mocha, I don't want to shake your faith.
Newman you could never shake my faith. And I'm not gonna sit here and argue about why God doesn't do this or that cause it's not for me to do so. He will reveal himself to you when you're ready and it's obvious by your questions that you aren't ready. Like I said before, God is talking to you but you just aren't ready to listen.
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:26 pm
I’m sure you mean it well, Mocha, but saying “God will reveal himself to you when you are ready” doesn’t really help one find God. Perhaps you and other believers could offer us some advice on how to get ready? I can’t speak for Newman, but I already think that I am leading a decent life. Why hasn’t God revealed himself to me? Is there anything that one can do? With respect to Newman’s question about the girl praying for help to no apparent avail, I’m fairly confident that the standard answers people give to explain this are: God’s plan isn’t apparent to us and that he is doing this for some unknown reason or God doesn’t actively intervene in our lives.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:28 pm
Don't patronize me Jimmer.
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:34 pm
I can honestly say that it is not at all my intent to patronize you. I am asking a sincere question and looking for help. I'm truly sorry if you feel that way.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:35 pm
Well check out this book and maybe it will help. It's called Finding Faith: A Self Discovery Guide for Your Spiritual Quest. Link
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:37 pm
Newman...I think your example of a solo car crash is a decent example. My daughter was in a solo car accident like that. She swears God took her out of the car at the moment of impact and kept her safe. She didn't even get a scratch on her, yet the car was totalled and people said she should have been dead. (She wasn't drinking...just on an 18 hour car trip and she fell asleep.) She swears it was God who saved her. I don't doubt her. Other people might attribute it to luck. I guess you can thank your lucky stars, or thank God...in any case....it was some sort of miracle.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:40 pm
But on a personal tip, I don't consider myself a religious person but spiritual. I have always believed in God but there were times that my faith was a lil low. But then it came to me that my own inner strength has come from my Creator because there have been plenty of times in the past couple of years that I just wanted to give up. I could've died from the cancer I had because it's only by the grace of God that it was caught early enough. But even if it wasn't then that still would be the will of God. I have also had other incidents that has strengthened my own personal faith. But I'm sorry if He hasn't been revealed to you or Newman or others and I can't really explain to you how to find Him. I can only say that He is there and you just have to believe.
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