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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:25 am
Did you ever think that maybe that is why they have been married for at least ten years, because there is still some element of suprise to their relationship. Not everything can be predicted. That gets boring. Ten years from now I want to be able to have a conversation with my husband and be able to say "i didn't know that about you." I think it keeps things interesting. Of course, this is also part of finding that happy medium. You can't know everything about your partner, but you must know the important things.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:32 am
Cuz they're just going through the motions Jimmer? I've never been married so I only know what I see. I see happy couples, both that spend a lot of time together and that don't. I really think that depends on personality. I see unhappy couples who are married because they're supposed to be or they've never been alone or they just don't know how to decide what they really want. Indecision is rampant. As someone who's lived along for a long time, I don't think I'd want to be with someone 24x7. I have my things that I like to do alone. I don't want someone trying to yack in my ear while I'm watching ER and having a good cry.
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:36 am
maybe i'm still considered a newlywed (will be 4 yrs. feb. 2nd) because my dh and i are always touching/hugging one another. we walk holding hands. we kiss in public. we cuddle for a short while at night (with or without sex) before drifting back to our own side of the bed to sleep. we instant message or call one another all during the day. we carpool and talk both on the way to and on the way home from work. we eat supper together and talk. yet, we rarely watch TV together as we often like different shows. he is many times up the hall on his computer while i'm on mine in the sunroom. he doesn't bother my sunroom and i don't bother his bear cave (spare bedroom). i hate shopping and he loves it. we both like to eat out, love to travel, love to read, love the same movies, and many other things. so, we do have plenty in common. it is our differences that make us the individuals we are. i think that we would both do well on a questionnaire about the other as we talk about our similarities and differences (even though we don't always understand them).
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Merrysea
Member
08-13-2004
| Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:41 am
I was married for almost 23 years, and it still surprises me how little my ex knew about me! It wasn't that I didn't talk to him - he just didn't listen! He always assumed that I would think exactly the way he did about everything, so if I expressed a different point of view or a different feeling, I was wrong.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:16 am
Forgot to mention: about the 4 hugs a day -- Newman, that's why you get a pet. They are great for hugging. 
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Friday, January 06, 2006 - 1:35 pm
Lots of good stuff here. Oh, I think some of you would be great fun to be married to! I doubt that I would be the type to ever be in a 24-7-joined-at-the-hip type relationship, but I would also hope that I would have something substantial in common with my husband. I'd want to have those times when we sit and watch tv and make sarcastic comments and giggle. I'd like someone to drag to boring social functions so I could undertone rude comments. I'd want someone who, with just one look, I could say "We'll have fun talking about this later on," "I told you it would be like this, "or "Get me out of here!" I can't imagine having less than that kind of relationship. I want the same kind of relationship that I have with my closest friends, but with a heep more passion! But I would also want 2 tvs so I wouldn't be forced to watch something stupid! Or I would have to have permanent custody of the remote.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 7:34 am
Lots to respond to. First, Jimmer, what was the name of the game? Just curious. Ask your wife. Give some typical questions. My ex wife read all the time. Can't think of her genre now. John Grisham I'm guessing. She liked to yell and scream at me and the kids. That's really what I remember about her (not laughing). Karuuna and Goddess, the thing about complaining...my pal and I are our only outside contacts in this COLD world. I can't see telling him to stop complaining. He has no one else to talk to. I do see not trying to fix it. Maybe I just say "what are YOU doing about the gout?" Or "how's the diabetes treatment going?" He once chastised me for seeming to not care about his new found diabetes. Generally he doesn't complain and I don't want him to focus the conversation on THAT, but I do want him to know that I care, because I do. I might have a broken picker too, Karuuna. I like the discussion about living with someone 24/7 and not wanting to be interrupted while watching ER (which is why many couples watch TV separately, which is ok). I think I have done a lot of my picking thinking "I can help here". Rescue man. I could be useful helping her raise three adopted Asian kids. How can you do that by yourself? Plus I like her... Or...she's in a bad relationship...she should dump him and live with me...we are sucha much better fit... Or...I like this and that about her, almost everything except we don't talk so well, maybe she's just nervous around me, once we get married she will relax and the talking will just develop, won't it? (No it didn't...) You're not going to get everything from one person. That's too much to expect. Expectations. But you have to have the basics. What are the basics? Sexual fun, talking fun, respect for each other, similar ideas about money, ability to compromise...I don't know...I could make a list...refine it...late for work...
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 10:23 am
Newman, I think that's probably the number one problem in relationships today - everyone is always try to fix/control/direct etc the *other* person, and doesn't spend nearly so much time trying to fix themselves. Lots of research coming out to show that the only kind of marital therapy that truly works is therapy that teaches us to just accept each other. To go back to the way it was in the beginning, when we focused on the good in our significant other, and overlooked the other stuff. But both people have to do that. Funny how that seems to then bring out the best in each other, much more than any nagging or "constructive criticism". There is nothing worse to me than a guy who looks at me like I'm a "fixer-upper", much like an investor looking to buy a house in need of repair. I don't want to be fixed. And I don't want to fix someone else. I want someone who's in a decent state of being from the start, don't mind some cosmetic blemishes, but the foundation should be safe and stable, relatively attractive and some nice bright colors - not too dang serious. And for the blemishes in each other, I think we should offer grace. We each have plenty, so overlook each other's. Grace.
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 10:31 am
It was several years ago that we played the game. I asked my wife but unfortunately her memory of the name is about as good (or bad!) as mine. At this point, I can't even remember specific questions. It was a fun game. We were all a little embarrassed over the results. Did you ever think that maybe that is why they have been married for at least ten years, because there is still some element of surprise to their relationship. Escapee’s comments certainly made me think. In a way, it almost suggests that the less someone knows another, the more interesting and appealing they may be. That is all too often true in the early stages of a relationship, where people sometimes try to fool the other party into thinking that they are something that they are not in an attempt to win the other’s affection. For example, one of my friends and his girlfriend always went camping together. They both loved camping (so it appeared) and it was a major part of what they did together. However, after they got married, she quickly lost interest in camping, to the point where she finally told him that she had never really liked it at all! Similarly, characteristics that at first may seem endearing can become extremely irritating in the long term. For example, at first it may be fun and flattering to have a boyfriend that obsesses over you or a girlfriend that continuously leans on you for support. But in the long term these characteristics just don’t lead to a good relationship. Now I’ve presented rather negative scenarios involving deliberate deception or negative characteristics. I do understand what Escapee is saying about “magic” in a relationship and I agree that it can be an enormous amount of fun finding out new things about your partner. It is a happy medium.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 10:55 am
Couldn't agree more about the fixer-uppers and women seem to be especially bad about this. Some of us have this secret longing to "save" a man and help him realize his full potential. Good luck! No one wants to feel like a work in progress to someone else. I actually had a man tell me, when he dumped me, that he wanted a woman who drank wine with him when they went to dinner. I could always see the look of disappointment on his face when I'd order an iced tea instead. Well, excuse me, I overlook your back hair and you ding me for drinking tea! See ya! Gosh, I wish it were as easy as it is in the movies to find someone you like and who likes you back.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 11:25 am
When I met my former spouse, he proclaimed to be and like a lot of things that it turned out were false. For example, he lied about how old he was (he was two years younger than me and thought that would put me off), he said he loved to go dancing -- and we did that a lot when we dated -- but after we were married, he said he hated dancing and we never went again. He said he didn't smoke, but it turned out that he did occasionally smoke, just not enough to make it obvious and never around me. After we were married, he stopped trying to hide it. Silly me, I found out about some of this stuff before I married him and figured what the heck, it was just minor stuff. WRONG. It was a foreshadowing of things to come. The man could sell ice to eskimos and I admired that ability to think on his feet and respond to situations quickly to close a deal. I could have continued to admire that, but as things went along, he turned to "the dark side" of that ability and began manipulating people, including me, in ways that were not good. Not all sales people are con artists, but he was. Anyway, the point is that I had plenty of warning signs and I chose to ignore them. (There were lots more than this.) For the most part, our relationship was fun when we were dating and although there wasn't a lot of passion, I figured that our mutual enjoyment of most other things would outweigh that part and that passion would grow as our relationship did. Boy, was I wrong. I think making a list of what qualities you want in a mate and which are the "deal-breakers" is a very good thing to do. If we all kept such a list at hand and used discipline in determining whether potential mates met those "deal-breaker" criteria for us or not, we might do a whole lot better at choosing wisely. As for me, I'm awfully gun-shy after my experience. I think I put out a lot of barriers to new relationships as a result. I'm just not sure what those are or how I'm doing it, but I'm sure it's there. I just don't want to go through that kind of situation ever again.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 6:23 pm
Max's comments made me think....has anyone had a relationship where passion developed later? It hasn't been my experience, so I wondered if maybe I just tend to discard before I give it a chance. My friends have told me I do in the past, but I don't think so. I just think I know what I want. But what if I am wrong? I guess I better qualify that by passion I mean that all-over jolt of electricity and connection. Some may have different definitions. It's not the only thing I look for, but I would call lack of it a dealbreaker. LOL...or "just a friend."
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 7:44 pm
Yesitsme, I agree. Never heard of "passion" developing later. I've heard some people say their sex lives got better, later, when they were both relaxed. Is that the definition of passion? Brenda, I wish you would drink that wine too. I think it helps while dating (and later on too for that matter, LOL). A little bit of alcohol loosens you up, relaxes the inhibitions maybe, and puts you in the mood. At least it does for me. I think I have even said that I "don't trust people who don't drink" but by that I mean it's just harder to get to know them, takes longer. Karuuna, loved what you said up there. I wish I had that mindset 30 years ago. I was very into self help books, Phil Donahue, fixing myself, etc. but also into fixing others. I'm not sure you can do either. Finding the right one (if only that were like the movies) and accepting each other, yes. Max I can relate to the warning signs you chose to ignore. I recall moving out of my "finace's house", into a friends apartment, when I was 39, after a fight, staring at the walls, thinking I had lived this way, the single alone life and did not want to go back to it. So we made up, got married, but were not a good fit. There are always warning signs. Again, if you are looking for perfection you will live alone with your own imperfections. I like the phrase "deal breakers." Balance that with accepting minor flaws like back hair (well, not on women <chuckling>).
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Monday, January 09, 2006 - 12:44 pm
Newman, I'll have a margarita or a daqueri or even a beer. I just can't stand the taste of wine. I'd rather guzzle a bottle of vinegar. But honestly, I often don't drink because I'm one of those lucky people who gets a headache and a hangover from 1 drink. YEsitsme -- yes, I DO think passion can develop later, but it has to develop naturally and can't be forced. I became friends with a guy in college who I would _never_ have found attractive. Nope, not at all. Well, after about 2 years of friendship I started finding him very attractive. We just got to know each other well and got along great. It never turned into anything because he started seeing someone just as I was ending a relationship, so the timing was never right for us. But I often wonder if the timing had been different what might have been. So, while I don't think you can be in a romantic relationship and expect the passion to arrive later if there is none, I do think a simple frienship can turn into something passionate.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Monday, January 09, 2006 - 7:06 pm
Just now catching up on my Sunday paper. Parade has an article on "the New Seasoned Woman." Hmmm... it appears they've coined a new phrase for me! According to the article, a seasoned woman offers: -- A "what-the-hell, life-is-short" joi de vivre -- Emotional stability -- Financial independence -- The ability to talk about anything -- No ticking biological clock or toddlers underfoot -- A knowledge of waht she wants sexually and the appreciation of a good lover Okay, that sounds pretty good to me. The article also says that what a seasoned woman wants includes: --Romance, fun, flirting, finesse -- Good conversation -- Mutual sexual pleasure with emotional connection -- Not to be tied down -- Men who are not threatened by her accomplishments -- She wants to go dancing! Hmmm... not a bad list. Maybe I'll check out a copy of Gail Sheey's new book, "Sex and the Seasoned Woman" which is what the article is promoting. 
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 7:02 am
Brenda, far be it from me to want to try to "fix" you, but there are ways around hangovers. It's mostly dehydration. Order a glass of water with your beer. Sip that too. Drink water before you go to bed. Take some enteric aspirin too. I do those things, don't get hangovers, and it doesn't tear up my stomach either. Max, real men don't dance. I hate to break it to you. I do regret never learning to dance. Kept envisioning Woody Allen dancing in "Play it Again Sam" and couldn't get that image out of my head! It's one of my top ten regrets, not learning how to dance, but I think a lot of other men have that, or they just don't like to for some odd reason, maybe because they look stupid. One of the main things I find with "seasoned women" is they are not comfortable with their bodies. Face it. When we get into our 50s, both men and women have trouble shedding the pounds. Metabolism slows down. Weight goes up. Fortunately I don't have that problem because I've always enjoyed working out, jogging to clear the mind, etc. I've talked to this one woman friend at my health club and her husband is fit like me but she is <>. She can't lose weight even though they show up at the club almost always together. She'll walk or stair climb or bicycle, whatever, and can't seem to lose an ounce. Now I don't know what her eating habits are like. I do think she should keep on exercising but maybe not expect to look like the super models in their twenties who populate my health club. Again...we get to the word acceptance. In my mind being a good conversationalist is much more important than looking like Jessica Simpson. OK, of course we men would want both, who wouldn't, but then why would some super model want to be with me?? (c)
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 10:35 am
Newman, it's never too late to learn to dance and I can tell you first hand that there is a wonderful dance community (west coast swing) in the Denver area. There are a lot of lovely middle-aged single women there. Tough thing is --it is a very hard dance to learn -- very steep learning curve, but the payoff is tremendous. It is so FUN! Many of the men start dancing late in life and with some lessons and a lot of practice and determination, you'd be surprised how good of a dancer they can become. It's never too late Newman! (there's also country dancing and ballroom dancing and salsa dancing too)
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 11:18 am
In my experience, age doesn't have all that much to do with whether a woman is comfortable with her body or not. Most women in our society have multiple complaints about their bodies. Even those who appear "perfect" to most of us will, if questioned, complain about something or other. Of course, there are exceptions, some of them cultural, to this, but overall, I don't think age plays that much a part. In fact, as I get older, I find that my contemporaries are more accepting of physical flaws than when we were younger. It's part of that "what-the-hell, life-is-short" joi de vivre stuff. As for "real men" not liking to dance. I can show you a monthly event where that doesn't seem to be the case. There's a "Baby Boomer's Social Club" here in town that holds dances once or twice a month. I'm usually working the nights they hold these, but the few that I've been to have always had a packed dance floor with plenty of "Boomer dudes" kicking up their heels. Personally, I love to dance, but if you asked me to two-step or do any kind of "organized" dance, I'd be at a loss. I'm from the era of "movin' to the groovin'" and never did learn swing dancing or any other organized style. But I do have rhythm and love to move -- as long as my knees hold up! LOL
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 12:20 pm
Oh, as long as looks got brought into this. . . Why is it that men (speaking in huge generalities here), no matter how large they are or how unconventional their looks, seem to often think that they deserve to have Miss Universe or her beautiful cousin grinning and hanging on their arm? Seriously, it seems that there are a plethora of guys out there who could really use a makeover themselves, but feel entitled to snark on how women look and think that they deserve a "hot babe" to fall madly in love with them. It really perplexes me. I saw an ad from a guy on Craigslist the other day where he actually wondered this himself. He noted that he'd looked at many of the pictures guys were posting where they billed themselves as "handsome" and he wondered where they had purchased their magic mirrors. While I'd love to have self-esteem that makes me feel like I'm Miss Universe when I look in the mirror, my brain just isn't wired for that much fantasy. 
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 1:30 pm
I haven't seen a lot of the women around me get more accepting of their bodies as they get older. That's what I would hope would happen, and I think I feel it more in myself, but so many women I talk with seem almost obsessed with how they look and what people think of their looks. I hate it. It bores me silly. I'm a huge believer in being healthy, but get so tired of people talking about how big their butt is or how "good" or how "bad" they have been because of what they have eaten in the past 24 hours. Either lose weight or don't...but don't whine about it for years on end. And please don't talk about it when I am in the midst of enjoying my dinner! It gets to be almost a habit to talk about such stuff....and at times I even hear it come out of my own mouth. Have we forgot how to carry on a conversation about anything else? Is it because we can't discuss other things anymore because people get so easily offended? I don't know, but I am becoming almost intolerant of it all!
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 9:39 pm
Brenda, I'll take up dancing when you take up binge drinking, LOL, or bar hopping, or happy hour hunting. Max, I hear what you're saying. I've noticed this from both women and men over the years. Some of each have a fantasy vision of themselves that defies reality sometimes. Who knows why. Men like good looking women. Women like good looking men. Is that not logical? Wouldn't you rather be with a good looking partner?? Yes, that would be a big difference between men and women. I hardly ever hear men talk about how big their butt is or other body part image concerns. We just tend to talk about golf or skiing or The Broncos.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 9:17 am
OK Newman, start dancing! During my childless years I was spending 3 nights a week at the Stampede and that's a bar so it counts. Also had a fake ID when I was 16 so I could get into the 18 bars and drink and dance, so I think I've paid my hangover dues long ago. I loved Max's post because it's SO true. So many men think they can get women who are so much more attractive and fit than they are. The women who are comprable looks-wise to them aren't "good enough". It's very frustrating to hear a man who's 50 pounds overweight comment on a woman who's 20 pounds overweight being too "heavy". Ugh.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:12 am
Men are starting to have some of the same self-image issues women have had for a while now. They may not ask if their butt is too big, but they are checking out other men and how they compare, getting plastic surgeries and spending more on wardrobe, grooming and "products". And most of the women I know are requiring more of the men they are with. Like that article in Parade magazine said, they would rather be on their own than put up with some of what was acceptable in the past. Hey Newman....you can volunteer to be the dance partner of single women in your area!
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:21 am
I think that a lot of people (men and women) don’t do what they say. I’m not saying this is necessarily a deliberate act on their part. What I mean by this is that you often hear people say that they don’t care much about good looks – all they care about is personality, good sense of humor, commitment, good hygiene, etc. However, when it comes to making the decision on whom to form a relationship with, appearance seems to play a much larger part of the decision than they are willing to admit.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 12:36 pm
I admit it....I care! Why would you want to wake up to someone you don't find attractive? Though I would also say, I don't like pretty boys!
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