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Archive through April 13, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussion ARCHIVES: 2006 Mar. ~ 2006 May: Baby Boomers, Living Alone, Changing Habits (ARCHIVES): Archive through April 13, 2006 users admin

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Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 11:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
<DIL> was here for a day and the reason ArReal and I had the difficulties and argued. She was offended because I didn't go out drinking at a bar with him. <rolling eyes> Heck I wasn't feeling well and came down with pneumonia. ArReal can be brutal when she's mad.
She pushes and pushes with questions when you aren't mad ... to the point that you get mad. Maybe with DH gone it will be better. It was great when I went down to Cali for a week and he was working.

Maybe she'll wisen up and leave him. I can pray.

(c)

Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 11:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
see there. now, without that negative influence things may go a lot smoother than you expect. keep us informed when the time comes.

Baby
Member

01-08-2006

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 1:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Baby a private message Print Post    
Kearie,

I need to think about this some more but when I first read what you wrote, this is what I thought..I think you and Areal need to sit down, first thing, and have a heart to heart talk. I think you need to be loving and supportive but also be very honest and think of yourself, too. I would remind her of what has happened in the past when you get together. And I would say what you need for yourself to be alright, in order for her to stay with you. I would be very upfront with her and let her know how, in the past, things have really taken a toll on you. I would be very specific and let her know what things caused problems for you and what kind of problems.

If after your talk, you two can agree on some kind of living arrangement, then give it a go. But, I would let her know that if it doesn't work out, she will have to go to grandma's. And I would definitely stick with the plan you come up with and no backing down.

You still can enjoy each other and have a great time together but still respect each other and stick with the plan you come up with.

If you don't take care of yourself, who will Kearie? And that means taking care of your mind, body and spirit. I think Areal will respect you even more for this.

And lastly, make sure you not only tell her you love her, but show her!

Chewpito
Member

01-04-2004

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 1:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chewpito a private message Print Post    
Oh Kearie, I can so relate- my daughter is the same age as yours. She moved out a couple yrs ago and I thought I would freak out, but I didnt at all...I love it. I also am very close to my DD but I dont want to live with her again. I would if she had no other option but I truly love my own space. I love knowing that I wont be the third wheel for her and her boyfriend and the endless stream of yakky girls in and out,at all hours -- and the house is as I leave it, clean... We talk every day and get together all the time(she lives in the same town) but live together again... that would be a challenge.. and Baby- I wrote a post - but it got lost in the crash last night...You know I wasnt comparing you to a guy...I just worded it wrong...but you knew what I was talking about...

Baby
Member

01-08-2006

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 1:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Baby a private message Print Post    
Chewpito,

Don't worry about it, honestly! I don't even think you worded the post wrong. I was just being silly and teasing! I am very glad you posted about your friend. I loved reading it, so please don't worry!

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Baby I think you are very right in your post.
We have to set limits and boundaries.

I know she'll push my buttons like she always does. But how to avoid it.

It's a case of when I'm down or upset I tend to get quiet. I want to think things through. My feelings, behaviors etc. I've learned not to blurt out my feelings. They can be mean and hurtful and not true. I would much rather choke down my words then have to eat them later.

ArReal, on the other hand wants to talk NOW!!! And she insists on it. She pushes and is in my face until I do blow. We yell, scream and fight for about an hour. Then make up and it's like nothing ever happened. She's over it and her jolly, chipper self ... and I'm left physically and emotionally exhausted. Things are great again for a month... and then it happens again.

I know she tries not to push, I go into my room and she let's me think...for about 5 minutes. She can't stand not talking about things. How do we compromise?

That's hard to live with, especially for my mental stability. But is it worth asking her to live elsewhere?

I do have to talk to her and see if we can come up with a plan when she's here.

Baby
Member

01-08-2006

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Baby a private message Print Post    
Kearie, I just now told you my thoughts on the phone when you called. I hope I made sense to you and helped some!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 4:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Kearie, this problem is very common among couples, and when I did couples counseling I used to advise using the following technique to avoid these blowups.

You have to understand that while you need time to think things through, her anxiety grows until it is settled. One way to help the other person with their anxiety is to say "I love you with all my heart, but I can't talk about this right now. I know we can work this out, but I can't do it right now." Then give a concrete time frame - I'll meet you here in one hour, or whatever.

This kind of conversation affirms to her that she is still on stable footing with you (you love her), that you're need to not talk is not about being angry, but it is about needing to think it through. And finally, because you make an appt about when to talk about it, it helps keep her anxiety from growing unbearable.

You may consider sitting with her at a time you are not upset, and laying out that plan, and getting her agreement. Then if she tries to force you to talk after you've given her your little speech, you just say, "honey, we had a deal about how we were going to handle these things. We'll meet at 6:00pm." If she keeps insisting, you shorten it to, "honey, we have a deal."

Giving you rehearsed language may seem forced, but it really does help because you don't have to think about what to say, which keeps you calm, and keeps her calm.

Hope that's helpful!

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Thanks so much Kar. I think that is a great idea and I know she feels anxiety about not talking. Is an hour too long for her...or is that a fair, common amount of time?

I know it will be hard for her, but I don't want it to be impossible. An hour sounds like a long time for her. Seriously.

I used to be like her and want to talk NOW, so I understand.

I'm sure it does come up a lot in couples too. Everyone has different "fighting styles" and communication styles.

I just know the older I get, the less I seem to be able to cope with her aggressiveness. I guess I'm frail, physically and emotionally. My doctor said I was. I don't think my child will ever understand that because she's anything but frail.
She's always been in excellent health, where I've always had frail health.

Thanks Kar. I will talk to her well before she comes. I hope that it works and keeps things calmer for both of us. She's a blessing to have around...90% of the time. LOL

Baby
Member

01-08-2006

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Baby a private message Print Post    
Kearie,

What Karuuna told you..that is basically what I said!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Kearie, I would negotiate the amount of time at the time you bring all this up, a not-conflicted time. If you think you need an hour, it might be wise for you to start by asking for two and negotiating down to one, so she feels like she has more control.

Really, an adult ought to be able to wait an hour to discuss a distressful situation, so you're really teaching her an excellent life skill that will help her in other situations as well. You just want to do it gently and in a non-aggressive way. It's just a hunch, but usually folks that can't wait to resolve conflicts have abandonment issues. At each new conflict, some part of them is afraid the relationship will go way completely; and that they can't survive the loss of that relationship. Reminding them that conflict is normal, waiting to work it out is normal and reassuring her that the relationship is still solid even in the middle of a conflict should help that.

Adapt as necessary to what works for you. You know the situation best. Good luck!

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Yes it is...and I really appreciate both your comments.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Good points about the abandonment issues. I think you are right...I never thought about that before but I see the connection now. THANKS very much.

I just want to say WOW Kar...because you turned on a lightbulb.

Justavice
Member

11-22-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Justavice a private message Print Post    
Kearie- One other thing you might try as a preventive measure is talking with all involved and scheduling a couple "planned visits" that your daughter stays with her grandmother. That will give you some relief to know there are definite dates set where you will have alone time to decompress. And when things get tough, you will be able to think, "I have X number of days until I have some time to breathe, I can make it until then."

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
That's a good idea. Heck...I could go to MT and leave the dogs here with her. I like, I like!!!
Go stay with a childhood friend and go camping.

Planned visits sounds wonderful. <Another great idea. I'm going to write these all down>

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Kearie, glad it helped. It's also nice to know that I got this right, because elsewhere (not on the board) I made a really bone-headed move that I'm kicking myself for.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
<patting Kar on the back> Thanks for the wonderful insight. I can look back and see that's precisely why I wanted resolution NOW. The anxiety of thinking "I have to know if this is going to be the time it's over" led me to pushing. I see that in me now that you pointed it out. I'm not like that anymore, but I was.

It gave me great insight to dealing with ArReal. You made wonderful sense.

Now Kar...accept my pats on the back and quit kicking yourself. <smile>

Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 7:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
We had a neighbor family whom we were really close to. The oldest boy was sensitive and hated arguements. His sister was just the opposite and loved to start fights with him. One day he came down to our house all upset because she had been baiting him so badly that he said he was afraid he might hurt her. I know she did this on purpose. In situations like that I think it is good if the more submissive of the two have a place to get away to even in the middle of a "discussion".

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 8:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Thanks, Kearie. But this could turn out to be a pretty expensive mistake. I'm still gonna be kicking myself for awhile. I can be such an idiot!

Oh, and I used to be that way too. Fix it now, so I know it's not over. Great what some maturity will do for ya.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 11:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Kar and Kearie... It's 2:00 am but this nightowl is compelled to put her 2 cents in.

1) When Kearie originally discussed her daughter's behavior... being insistant on issues being resolved right away without much of a timeout. I totally identified with that. When people ask for a timeout, saying lets discuss it later, now is not the time, I tend to think the other person is blowing me off with no intention of any positive resolution and then I get even madder, insulted, and frustrated.

2) When Kar said it was an anxiety/abandonment issues, she hit the nail on the head 100%. In couples therapy a few years ago, my dh was given the same language... he used to want to run out the door to clear his head, and I would litterally block the doorway in fear he was leaving me. He learned to say, (no matter how mad he was, that he was only going out to clear his head, he still loved me and he just needed some breathing room. A far cry from my mother calling me names and running out of the house for hours on end when I didn't know where she was and when she was coming home. I missed a train coming back into the city once, because she took off, and I had a massive anxiety attack, when into almost a comatose state, and sat numbly staring at the wall for hours til she bothered to come back home. She was surprised (and annoyed) I was still there, and I was surprised she was surprised. Anyhow, my dh understands that I grew up with her taking off on me at a whim, so he does try to be sensitive about it. And that is why for the most part I am now more confident and relaxed when he does go out for a bit to cool off. He admits he has a temper, and its better for both of us if he gets a grip. BUT my anxiety was such that I'd rather have him lose it than me lose him. I'm better about it now. Although I am no picnic to live with, so I feel amazed that he not only loves me, but he puts up with me! LOL.

About 10 years ago I got a phone call from mom that she was going away and it was not my business where she was going or when she was coming back. But that she would contact me when she got back. (She would have been about 80 to my 40... and still playing me!) I had no idea on where she was on the Planet! And my relatives either didn't know or wouldn't say where she'd gone. For weeks I panicked whenever I heard of a plane, train, or bus crash. Or if there was a bus bombing in Israel, a hurricane in Florida, or well you get the idea. For all I knew she was in a local hospital in her city. I found out 7 long weeks later that she'd been enjoying herself on a Senior group holiday to Scotsdale Arrizona. Yep. I come by my abandonment issues honestly. :-(
Sorry if its TMA. But this convo triggered this stuff in my memories. And it feels healthy to share.

Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 5:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
Mame, I am the one who has to get away in an arguement. I cannot take a lot of fighting and there is a point where I just give in or go away. It actually has nothing to do with the content of the arguement. I HAVE TO get away. I feel smothered and under the control of someone who has the upper hand. This is the same reason I dont like holding hands with anyone. I have to be able to get away. I think it is best for the other person to allow this. It should not be taken personally.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 6:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Mame, thanks for sharing. I think we learn and grow by sharing these stories.

When I was four, my dad left me in a closet so he could go out drinking. He said bad things would happen (I won't elaborate) if I left the closet. So I stayed there, all night, till my mom finally found me in the morning. It's no wonder I have issues!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 7:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I read some of this and my mouth falls open. I always knew these sort of things happened but it is still shocking to hear it from people that you know.

My Dad was an incredibly strong courageous man with great ability and a lot of love. Unfortunately, he was very sick for most of my childhood and my adult life. He never once let it get him down and to look at him you would probably never have guessed. I thought that I had a tough time growing up because my Dad wasn't well and I worried about him so much. I always knew he was a great Dad, but more and more I am realizing just how great he was.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Folks, I have to admit, that I was embarrassed about how detailed my post is, and I awoke with the intention of asking for it to be deleted, BUT having read it again, and the wonderful responses it elicited, I feel okay with it.

((((Doc)))) Its funny how intellectually I 'Get It' but on a personal level, my emotions tend to overide my brain. Of course people need their space, especially if they are uncomfortable with a situation! But I had to do some thinking when you wrote you felt 'smothered, and under someone else's control', etc. and the shoe fit uncomfortably well, with the smothering remark. BUT my back went up with the word control. So I just put on my thinking cap and pondered it. :-) I guess that for my part, I feel like all control is slipping and I have to cling (hate that word!) even tighter, or my world as I know it could unravel on a dime. Each argument to me use to be my emotional life and death.

My mom would be airy-fairy light and breezy when she was in a good mood, and if she'd say something nice, it was usually, well the opposite of intense... Unconvincing. Best word I can find. But when she was expressing negative emotions, she (and my dad) were beyond extreme in their verbal intensity, with words and emotions. So there was no doubt about the validity of the negative stuff. If I did well in school, it was brushed off, or there was surprise. If I did badly, once again I was a bad reflection on her. She had contempt for my chatter, my open-heartedness, and my vulernabilities, and said I was just like my dad, basically saying, I was not as valid as her - with her judgmentalims, her secretiveness, her sour outlook, and her narcissims. In therapy I learned everything I kept seeking in her, was always available from my dad. And he was the one with the supposed mental problems! Give me someone who's a good-hearted misfit anyday over someone who is accepted as normal, and who is meanspirited, please! (wink)

((((Kar)))) I can barely imagine what growing up with an alcholic parent would be like. As an adult I've come to believe that my personal hell was the least of the various rings of hell. So as bad as it was, if you start with emotional disfunction, and add on things like alcoholism, or physical or sexual abuse, it ratches one closer in my opinion to the higher rings of hell. It's all HELL, but the degrees do vary. But its the internal outlook and internal fortitude of each person that will make or break a person, not where they stand in the rings of hell. Its all bad, but its WHO you are to the core, that will decide if you survive or are beaten down by life and the situation. JMHO, anyways. Thanks for allowing me to feel okay about my sharing probably TMA. (hugs!)


((((Jimmer)))), I used to resent when people would realize how good they had it when compared to my situation. (It just made me feel worse.) But NOW, as an adult, it just makes me truly happy to know that there are some good people out there who didn't suffer as badly, if at all. Now where I have difficulty is when I meet people who are unkind, undeserving people who seem to have skated through life, and I feel tremendous resentment. And I admit I do the happy dance when I hear of their downfalls. So I guess that makes me shallow or petty, but its really just the last refuge of the 'impotent' and weak. And for all my blather, I am not a strong woman. I was once told I'm held together emotionally with spit and scotch tape. I believe that 100%.

Acts of kindness make me cry harder than any acts of cruelty. This world really is reflected in the book The Lord of the Flies. Evil usually seems like the easier, popular choice. Goodness is a tough choice, usually requiring sacrfices of some kind or another. And when good souls make that choice, it surprises me and gladdens my heart to bursting. Which is why, as a Jew, my favourite people are the Righteous Christians who make room for us to live and breathe regardless of the great sacrifice to themselves, at times. Would I have had the same courage in their shoes. I would like to think so, but I don't know.

Poor Newman. I've kidnapped your thread again. Sorry!

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Native_texan a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, I'm with you. My parents have been married for almost 49 years and I've never heard them yell (as in screaming) at my sister or me or each other. Whether they did it in private I don't know, but I've never even heard them have a serious argument. My dad whipped my sister and me each one time (and that was back when people still practiced "spare the rod, spoil the child").

However, in recent months, I have come to the realization that we avoided (and continue to avoid) confrontation at all costs. I have been just as guilty as the others but now that I'm starting to voice my opinion, it is causing problems that, of course, are being avoided. I have declined my sister's invitation to a family Easter at their lakehouse because I can no longer ignore how disrespectul my nieces are to their elders, especially my parents. A couple of weeks ago the family was together and my mom had worried all week about arguing. So when the sniping started and my niece ignore my mom's request to stop, I said something. And she smarted off at me. When I attempted to explain to her that my mother had worried all week about this happening and I was tired of her not being shown any respect, I was the one who was accused (by my niece and sister) of instigating the problem. The issue apparently has been swept under the rug once again. I was beginning to wonder if I was exaggerating the situation in my mind, but when I declined have my sister's invitation to their lakehouse for a family Easter (my family is always together at Easter), she did not ask why. But, then again, maybe she wasn't that thrilled about us coming anyway.

I know I had a point in there somewhere.