Author |
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 12:35 pm
My parents taught me that love AND forgiveness go hand in hand. Bitterness has no place in a peaceful, happy life.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 12:40 pm
My daughter also listened to my advice. As much as she wants a kid and children, she's waiting until after college...and till her husband grows up a little and becomes more responsible. LOL...some of the advice I gave her that she didn't listen too...now I hear her telling her friends that same advice.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 1:06 pm
Yeah, Kearie, it's amusing when you hear your kids repeat stuff that you told them (to others) or carry on traditions that you installed. My daughter, when she went to college, instituted a chore chart, something I did at home, to make things more fair, and make sure things got done. Mocha, I'm with you about the clutter. I would love to hire someone to go thru everything and throw out 90% of it, but it's such a daunting task, and they would have to keep asking me "is this worth saving?" So, that project is on the back burner... My favorite piece of advice, now, is similar to one Max said up there. "Know what you can change, what you can't, and know the difference between the two." Something like that. ONly I wanted my ex-wife to like that one too. She wanted to (and did) fight EVERY BATTLE. It was exhausting. No one, not even ME, can be wrong about every single thing! But did I ever get that advice or did I read it on the wall of my ex-wife's Grandma's house, in a nicely framed quote presentation? In any event all the good advice in the world won't do anybody any good unless they are receptive to it.
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Merrysea
Member
08-13-2004
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 1:22 pm
Mocha and Newman, I'm going to jump in here and give you some unsolicited advice about daunting clutter - set your timer for 15 minutes and throw things away (or bag them up to donate). Then, when the timer goes off, STOP! Do this every day, and you'll be surprised how much you can get done in just 15 minutes!
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 1:30 pm
That quote sounds a lot like the serenity prayer. I think it's good. I think most people have the difficulty knowing or accepting things they can't change. We can't change others or our pasts...yet we often hope others change and we hang on to the past hurts and disapointments. When we do those things...we only hurt our own peace of mind.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 1:33 pm
Newman, AA uses that motto and, for them, it goes like this: "God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 1:43 pm
Changing habits.....hmmmm I have this horrible habit I want to change. I rarely finish anything. As a child I was taught "it had to be perfect" or there was a beating. Nothing was ever good enough. The only thing I ever really finished was college and I was "good enough". I have many unfinished project. Books I've started writing, craft projects. I put 200% into something until I burn out....then I never go back. Scrapbooking was the only thing that held my attention for any length of time. I went from very novice to excellent in a year and a half. I complete 4 scrapbooks in that year. How does one learn to pace themselves and not become obsessive with hobbies and then burn out? How does one learn that it's okay to succeed when you've been taught nothing is good enough or you can't do this or that?
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 5:02 pm
Ahh kool idea Merry! Thx.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 11:12 pm
Like that idea too, Merry. Good ADVICE! I wonder if I'll use it. Kearie, maybe Merry's advice to clutter is your answer to "avoiding burnout". Set a timer, or set aside only a certain amount of time for each project. Like I have a rule (which I am now breaking) not to write on the internet past 10pm. Otherwise it takes too long to wind down and sleep. If you're starting to write a book or do a craft you could set a time. Many writers like writing in the morning for example, or the evening, whatever. Set that specific slot, say from 7-8am to do your specific task. As for being perfect, to please the parents, well I moved 1100 miles away from them. That was a long time ago but it seemed to work. The parental tapes are still in my head but there is something about distance that allows you to be more free, to be yourself, or to find yourself. The serenity prayer. Yes. Love that advice. Funny thing I gave that as my example of good advice I took. But when I think about it, it's not true. Apparently I don't know the difference of what you can change or who you cannot. I try to turn Republicans into Democrats, try to persuade others toward my political point of view! See...that's what I mean that people don't take advice...even me...or is that "especially me?"
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 1:16 pm
Good advice Newman and Merry....about the timer. I may try that. Your last paragraph Newman. I think many of those topics that are "bad to talk about" (religion, politics abortion etc) are difficult to discuss because we really want to change others views. Part of me thinks it's because we care passionately about these things and hope the other sees why we're so passionate...because we're right. I used to get very frustrated talking about religion and my views when others didn't agree with me. For me, I care and I think I'm right so I want them to see the same "rightness" and way to heaven, peace, etc. Eventually it dawned on me that I have blind faith that my beliefs are correct and they have blind faith their beliefs are correct. Ummm.... One of us has to be wrong!!!! There are Jews, Hindus, muslims, buddist, and on and on, yet we all believe passionately and faithfully that we are correct. I think politcs is the same way. We get very passionate and hope for the country's well being, others will open up there minds listen and agree with us. We often have a hard time listening to others points of view on things were passionate about. And it's just as true for others. I used to be very anti-abortion...pro-life. But I must admit, after talking to people, reading about it, I changed my political view. I'm still against abortion...even in rape cases...but I strongly believe the government shouldn't take that choice from women. My views changed because I was open to listening and thinking critically about what the other was saying. I doubt a Muslim or a Jew could change my religious beliefs...but I can learn a few things from them if I listen. Like I said, I think it's about how passionate we are about something...maybe it's not always about being right...maybe part of it is about caring for the other and wanting them to see WHAT we think is best and WHY we think it's best.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 1:31 pm
Kearie, RE: the religious beliefs -- what if everyone is right. What if the various belief systems are all just different paths towards the same center? Just something to ponder. 
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 1:49 pm
I don't wanna ponder right now....it's monday. 
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 2:25 pm
Well, I do think all religions have some good things to them. Mormon's are very close family units, they tithe well and even though they're annoying...they work hard at mission work. Muslim's have strong family values. All religions have things to learn from. I think all religions seek to find peace of mind in this difficult world. I don't consider christianity a religion. (IMHO)It's an individual thing. Anyone of any religion can be a christian. There are no rituals. Just a singular belief in Christ, his life, death and ressurection...and what it did for mankind ...past, present and future. Three rules....Love God first, others second and yourself third. (Obviously we all fail because we're all selfish and look out for ourselves first...at times) I think most religions have loving others as a top priority. The center....I think our centers are different too. The age old question...what is the meaning of life?...I think individual answers determine the center we're seeking. (reincarnation, no life after death, 70 virgins, purgatory, heaven, hell) And individual definitions of those things change. So many things to ponder. I'm babbling...Hope I'm making some sense.
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Merrysea
Member
08-13-2004
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 3:26 pm
Kearie, are we supposed to put ourselves third? I thought it was "love your neighbor as yourself." That would not put others above us, but on a par with us. Love God, then love everyone else, ourselves included. And can you truly love others if you don't love yourself?
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 4:10 pm
That's true....no one should be a doormat, but we should put aside our selfishness and we can't do that...if we love ourselves more than others.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 9:36 pm
Kearie, that's a good point, about being passionate on say politics, and knowing you are right and wanting to persuade others to your point of view. I've been doing a lot of that lately and it frustrates me. I think I should even stop going to the news and views section. That is an interesting part of human nature. And some people have more of it than others. That desire to change another's mind, win them over to your way of thinking, to help them see the light. I mean we do it for their own good, or for our cause, to add to our numbers, to win an election or whatever. I think I should just let people be and I would be more at peace because of it. You are unusual, Kearie, in that you still listen. I'm reacting to that paragraph about abortion rights and so forth. Usually when I, as a liberal, get into a political argument with a far rightie, it doesn't end well. There really is no chance that either of us will change our minds; so what's the point? Mormon's are annoying? Hey, I'm a Mormon! <just joking>. Are Mormons allowed to joke? Max, I don't know if every religion is right. Don't Christians say that you can't get to heaven unless you believe in Jesus? Some poor kid in Africa who has never heard of Jesus is therefore DOOMED? How can that be right? Or Buddhists believe in reincarnation? Christians don't. Now, one of them has to be right and the other wrong, right? I don't know, Kearie. I think you have to love yourself more than others. I don't think that's selfish, either. I know myself. I'm with me almost all the time. If the airplane is going down I have to affix my face mask first before I put it on my child. I agree with Merry. Can you truly love others if you don't love yourself? Besides your health you really need good self esteem to have a successful life, to be a contributing member of society. Letting you have my seat in a crowded bus, sure. Giving you my beer money, just because you're begging, and have a sign that says "God Bless", well, no. Hey, I'm babbling now too, lol.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 10:20 pm
The need to be right seems pretty much central to humans -- well, at least to Americans. I can't speak for all the cultures of the world. Regarding questions about the 'right' and 'wrong' of religious beliefs (as in one set of beliefs must be correct and another incorrect), what I'm positing is this: What if there is no 'right' or 'wrong' regarding how to worship a higher power or deity? What if there are simply different approaches, all of which are acceptable to that higher power/deity? What if the gift of choice extends all the way to that point? Because really there is no inherent 'right' and 'wrong', those are only labels we assign to things and actions and people and places. If somehow our mind was wiped clean of all preconceptions, those things and people and places would still exist, but we may then choose a new way of perceiving them and end up assigning different labels to them. What if God (or however you choose to label that which is bigger than us in the universe) really isn't too picky about how people worship? What if the thing that really matters is how much we learn, how well we love, and how much we acknowledge that there IS something greater than ourselves and that ALL ways of doing that were acceptable in the eyes of God? My, my, wouldn't the Pat Robertsons and Al Qaeda leaders of the world be surprised then!!! I don't purport to have the answer, this is simply something I ponder from time to time. Perhaps if people were less invested in "right-fighting" then there would be less condemnation of those who hold beliefs other than our own.

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Mameblanche
Member
04-13-2005
| Monday, December 12, 2005 - 11:26 pm
I have been EXTREMELY upset, anxious and depressed for the better part of 2 weeks. There is a woman in our condo building who insists on hijacking our annual holiday party to suit HER own beliefs. Our party is all-inclusive, nobody should care if you are an Athiest, or a religious zealot in your private time. Just come and be NEIGHBOURLY to everyone. Have a libation, have some munchies, make some friendly small talk. And then go home and do your own thing with your own thoughts and beliefs. But this creature is on her own misguided campaign. She has confronted me in the elevator (a couple of years ago) and told me to my face that this is a Christian country, (Canada) ergo the party is only a Christmas party. Um, no, first of all this is a multi-cultural country in which 'I' was born, and to which she was permitted to emigrate to from Europe! And that the party is specifically all-inclusive for ALL of the owners and residents of this building. Well she was hell-bent for leather as they say, and was not willing to listen or to even entertain the notion. (Shocked me, as I'd considered her a friend when I moved into the building a few years ago!) She always scribbles CHRISTMAS party on the newsletter that is posted in the mailroom, and when I felt it would be rude to scratch it out, I simply added Happy Chanukah and Happy Kwanza, and I found she had scratched it out. So I put 'Happy Holidays to everyone!' It got so ridiculous, and painful to see the newsletter I had written be turned into this turf war of ignorance. The humanist-inclusives vs the arrogant bigots. This year she outdid herself. A board member put up a generic all inclusive holiday party poster all over the buidling. EACH one was taken down and put up on Christmas paper. Plus she bitched to a neighbour about how ugly the original one was. She had no right to touch the poster. In an effort to calm down the gal who had done the original poster, I offered and did create a new poster with pointed graphics on it like the dove of peace, the maple leaf which is on our flag, the globe with children of all colours dancing around it, and I put the words Peace On Earth, Goodwill... above that globe. I also had a graphic of a Christmas Tree, with the words Merry Christmas on it, a Jewish Hanukkah Menorah, and the words Happy Hanukkah, and a flapper sitting in a coctail glass with a banner across her saying Happy New Year. This all enclusive poster dissappeared within a couple of days. This was a board approved poster! But they also didn't want to begin a 'pissing match' with her and so they left hers up! I have dreaded going into that elevator or into the mailroom since then. The party is tomorrow. It won't be over soon enough for me. I am going to do what I did last year, and set up a table with the Hanukkah menora and some dreidles, (holiday toys), etc. My husband is Catholic, my mom is Jewish, and I consider myself an agnostic-humanist. But for the last 2 weeks I have felt like I'm living in Berlin in 1939. And that my friends is why I have been so upset for the past 2 weeks and haven't been able to leave my place. She is not just a 'lady' who loves her holiday. If she was then all would be well. But IMHO I feel that while Hitler had a horrible plan, it was people like her who let him get away with it. The Board members were so upset they almost postponed the party until February. There is serious doubt whether this board will sanction another party this time next year. Why do the bigots always seem to win. She may have won this battle but the whole building may lose the war on account of her. I have been so depressed and upset and anxious and miserable for the past 2 weeks. And why? I'm the one who wants EVERYONE dammit to have a good time and feel welcome at the party. I guess it doesn't matter to this 'person' that I am an equal co-owner in this building. To her I am simply less than her because I am not Christian.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 7:38 am
I don't know Max. I want to scribble something here before I dash off to work. I would counter your beginning thought with "what if there is no god?" Then all approaches to the "deity" are meaningless. What if your son starts praying to the devil, begins Satanic worship, or one of the fringe religions like Wicca or Mormonism (I'm so amusing). Wouldn't that worry you? Why do you assume there is something greater than ourselves? A higher power? (Words are an invention of mankind. I do wish we had better words to help us describe what we're trying to talk about). Does God really require that He/She be worshipped? Why? Doesn't He know He's great? Why does He need little ole me to bow down to Him and say help me here or thank you for that? Why do we have to acknowledge God? I'm from the group of agnostics. I'm not sure there is a God. I do believe that we should all be nice. Do the stuff we learned in kindergarten. But that doesn't require belief in God. Am I being clear here? Belief in God only matters when you're on your deathbed or about to receive the lethal injection. Fear of death. Is it all over? Dial tone? Or is there life after death? What's that like? The cynical part in me thinks that is why man invented God...so people wouldn't be so afraid to die...and to keep them in line while they are here on earth...
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 8:20 am
That is certainly the Machiavellian argument. That religion was simply designed by the wealthy and the rulers, to keep the poorer masses in line and give them hope beyond this life. I think that you bring up a very interesting question. Why would an all-powerful wonderful God want us to worship him anyway?
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 9:09 am
Why do you assume there's not something greater than yourself?
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 10:07 am
Wow....I am away for a couple of days and so much has gone on! It's been fun to catch up on postings. Quite a few have had me laughing out loud and several other have made me think. I definitely take the advice of others... I suspect it would be almost impossible in life to go through it without taking the advice of people you admire and trust. I know my mom is still shocked when she finds out how advice she gave me throughout my childhood has shaped my life. As she said "I didn't think you were listening." But I did, and though at times it wouldn't get used immediately, I came to find out that she wasn't near as stupid as she appeared during those years! In a lot of ways she and my dad didn't out and out give advice... they tended toward asking questions and using that to make us think and shape our own values. For example, one day I was whining because my best friend, one of two kids, had gotten a new bike and I (one of 5 kids) had one worse than her old one, mom said to me "Yes, possibly your dad and I shouldn't have had so many children so that you could have more stuff. Tell me, which of you shouldn't we have had?" I adored my youngest brother, the logical choice, so that stopped me dead in my tracks. Eventually that and other such questions formulated my philosophy that people are better than things and that having the most things doesn't necessarily mean that you have the richest life. I agree with Lance's comments about why we tend to try to fix others, but also think sometimes distance allows us to see the flaws in others better than our own. I listen to the advice of my friends (people who have earned the right to give it!) but also am known to offer it. BUT, while my friends will tell you I am always giving advice, I also believe when someone tells me to stop or shows me advice is unwelcome, it's my job to shut up! You have to let people live their own lives in their own time....they may need processing time, they may not be ready to change, they may disagree with you. It's all their right and privilege. Newman, wish you lived closer. I'd make you were getting out and having fun right now. I'd enjoy just sitting around and discussing with you! And maybe we could volunteer somewhere.... Why would an all-powerful wonderful God want us to worship him anyway? Maybe to show that we're not on equal footing with God? I don't think anyone should be forced to believe anything....either you do or you don't and that can change at any time in your life. Obviously God doesn't think so either or he wouldn't have given us free will and put us in a big world with a rainbow of different people and ideas! Mameb...I say you do your own holiday party and invite all of the fun neighbors. Don't let that lady get to you... people like that are generally miserable deep down. A sad way to live a life. I wonder what her goal is in making that stand and whether she thinks forcing her beliefs on anyone will really change their minds. Quote Dr. Phil to her "Now, how's that working for you?"
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:00 pm
Indeed, Newman, that is part of the question. Perhaps there is no God. ANything's possible and we won't really know until we leave this plane of existence. I can only speak for myself, but I see evidence of some higher power all the time. Maybe it's just justification so that I can put labels on things I don't understand. I can't begin to think of looking at all the wonders of nature and how things are inter-related without believing that there is something that ties it all together, that sees a larger purpose to it all than I can see. Trying to prove there is a God/higher power is like trying to prove a negative. You really can't give empirical proof. Faith is something you either have or you don't. For me, believing in something makes more sense than believing in nothing. But that's me. As for the question of why God would want us to worship Him, well, maybe He doesn't. (Again the language limits us to gender-specific pronouns, which just don't seem to fit for me.) Historically, most organized religions were put in place to control people. If you instill fear in people of the "wrath of God" you can control what they do -- or at least attempt to. The folks who put together the original Bible did it with a heavy socio-political agenda in mind. Choices of what went into the Bible and how it was translated were made with that agenda in mind. Heck, even the punctuation was added with that agenda in mind (the original language did not use any punctuation, so it was added in later). As for your question about a son choosing to worship Satan or whatever, well, I can cop out on that one since I don't have kids. I can say, though, that I would hope that any children I might have had would have learned from my examples and found their own paths and that those paths would be towards helping others, being positive, and being inspired and awe-struck at the wonders of the world around us. That might lead them towards Wikka, which isn't about Satan at all, but about Mother Nature and the interrelation of all things in the world. I don't know. I guess I'd just take it a day at a time and see what happened. I would like to think that I wouldn't try to force them into anything. But, since I never had kids, it's hard to tell for sure what would happen. 
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Fruitbat
Member
08-07-2000
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:00 pm
Newman said, What if your son starts praying to the devil, begins Satanic worship, or one of the fringe religions like Wicca or Mormonism (I'm so amusing). Oh good one! Love it.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:04 pm
Well my son already worships video games so there ya go.
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