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Archive through February 20, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussion ARCHIVES: 2006 Mar. ~ 2006 May: Baby Boomers, Living Alone, Changing Habits (ARCHIVES): Archive through February 20, 2006 users admin

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Lancecrossfire
Animoderator

07-13-2000

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 4:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lancecrossfire a private message Print Post    
Yes, I agree, so many responses. :-)

Newman, et al--in listening to everyone give their views about what things mean to them, I more strongly believe that no one answer is correct. The correct answer is a bit different for everyone.

I'd also like to make my pitch for NO HINTS. I find hints to be a gateway ot failure. If you would like something or would like the other person to do something, be clear and honest about it. You can say it respectfully and in an issue oriented way.

Hints are a trap waiting to get you--anyone can not figure out what a hint really means ot the person giving the hint. I consider it much more of a mean thing to hint at what you want than to be up front and direct.

Of course I'm not likely to do well with someone that just has to give hints because they don't want to possibly insult me.

And it is in these differences, and communicating these differences to a mate that have have a big affect on the success (or failure) of a marriage.

The issue of compromise was brought up--that maybe to have a better chance of success both parties should be able to compromise as much as possible. I do agree that can help.

I also think one doesn't have to compromise a lot all along the marriage if a number of steps are done and agreed upon before getting married.

Communications is the key here. One must communicate desires, expectations, what will not be a compromisable situation and what can be. Honest is equal to communications too. Everything you say needs to be the truth--don't hedge the truth in exchange for making sure you give an answer the other wants to here.

Both parties need to realize you can't get something for nothing. Everything comes with a price of some kind. More on this in a bit.

Compromise--we all go into a relationship with things we won't compromise. For a lot of folks, the obvious one is no cheating. If you cheat, it over.

But what about less obvious things that may be of huge importance?? What if you both can only sleep on the right side of the bed? what if sleeping on the left side means you literally cannot sleep?

I don't know about you, but a week of literally no sleep will put a major hurt on a marriage. What if you can't stand to have meet cooking in the house and you mate won't give up meat?

There can be some day to day things that have the potential to be relationship ending--and they aren't always as obvious as something like no cheating and no spouse beating.

A number of times in various threads including this one, I've mentioned I think definitions are important. What is romance ot one may not be to the other. how you show you care may not be seen that way by another. Newman talked about doing one set of chores while his mate did another. Some might see that as helpful, others as a way to create distance.

The leads into the whole issue of doing things together or not doing them together, or any other types of situation where a choice has to be made on how to deal with life. (separate or together vacations could fall into this)

Here we have the classic "you can't get something for nothing" thing I mentioned. Do simpler times seem like the thing you like best? If so, you give up something. The number of things you can get done. The activities you might do. The life style you lead.

Is it bad to sit and what TV starting at 9:00. For some, it's important. For others it may feel like a sign of indifference. It seems like it's neither good or bad to start watching TV at 9:00. It just depends on what is important to you and to your mate.

If it had been discussed before marriage, maybe you can work it out ahead of time. Maybe you communicate to each other what your actions would feel like.

Of course over time people change in various ways. Maybe what you agreed upon 10 years ago just isn't ok any more. The same things work though--communication and honesty. Just don't wait till you are seeing red and feel like you've been hurt a 100 times. Pay attention to yourself, and to the other person.

The 50/50 issue. I would hope in a god relationship that 50/50 works out in the long run. It might not from day to day or week ot week. It may be tough for both people to wash the dishes 3.5 times a week so it's 50/50. Maybe one person washes the dishes almost all the time and the other person almost always mows the lawn. Both are chores that need to be done.

It's funny how people will screw over a mate or a close friend because "they will understand" better than someone else. To me, that is the very reason you don't punish a mate if at all possible.

Going ot bring someone over for dinner? How about a call home first. Going to cancel alone time together to go golfing with a buddy? Why punish your spouse over saying no to your buddy? (the most likely answer is actually related to you). If you just have to od it, realize their is a price. Or try to make it up somehow in a way the other person would appreciate.

Working long hours--this is always an interesting topic to me. Money is a tool--or it least it should be. If you want big expensive things though, yet you complain about a spouse working long hours so they can get the money you want to spend, then you might want ot remember that thing about not getting something for nothing.

If you work long hours to avoid the family, you also may want to remember you are most likely going to pay a price for doing so.

We often do things the way we'd want them done for us. Max might not crowd a mate because Max likes her space. Yet when her mate hangs around all the time, it is a possibility it's because that is what they want (or as Max pointed out, it could be for other reasons)

Again, honesty, communicating and no hints will help get thing figured out.

Newman, you are right--a marriage is hard work. No auto pilot setting, and it takes some work each and every day. But doing a little work each days means not having to do a huge amount every once in awhile. And typically it's a better recipe for success.

Max
Moderator

08-12-2000

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 4:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Max a private message Print Post    
Lance, you are so right about hints! I can't tell you how many friends have come to me over the years griping about how their mate just doesn't get it and how could the do this or that or not know something was needed/desired by their mate. I usually end up asking them, "Did you tell him/her that?" Most of the time, the answer is, "No, s/he should KNOW!" Yeah, right. :-)

If you have a partner who sometimes surprises you by anticipating something you want/need or by doing something special that you love, even though you didn't ask, then that's a bonus. But we are each responsible for our own happiness and if we don't communicate to our mates what happiness looks like for us -- in clear language that they acknowledge they understand -- then it's OUR problem when our needs aren't met, not our mate's.

For some people (women, usually, but men, too), the idea of romantic love seems to include a misconception that their partner should just "know" what they need/want without being told. There's a feeling that if they have to spell it out, then the romance is gone.

Fairy tales, romantic movies, soap operas, and romance novels perpetuate this myth.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 4:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
I would just add that in addition to being clear about what you want, you shouldn't just assume that if you are clear, then your partner should do what you want. State what you would like clearly, but also be open to negotiation, or the idea that what you have asked might not be something your partner can give. It should always be okay for your partner to have the freedom to say no, or to negotiate to something you can both live with. Unless of course, they always say no. Then you have a whole 'nuther problem!

PS Mocha, LOL on the diamond. I wouldn't even go for the diamonds this time. I"m finding value in other things we do together.

Max
Moderator

08-12-2000

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 4:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Max a private message Print Post    
Yeah, who says you only get diamonds for wedding rings, anyway?!?! :-)

Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 5:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Lance, you are so right about hinting and how it doesn't always work. If you have to spell something out - then spell it out! Often your partner is more than willing to do something that you want or give you what you need - if you only give them the chance.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 5:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I agree, just hinting and then being upset when hints aren't picked up.. that's passive aggressive and lethal.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 10:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, your post is along my lines of thinking last night when I was reading this thread. Most the couples I know who have been married for years not only love each other they like each other. They have things in common and enjoy spending time together but also have seperate interests and spend time apart to pursue their own interests.

I love my husband but I like him too. He's goofy and makes me laugh, we have the same interests and enjoy spending time together, and we usually have the same ideas about how to spend that time. But, we also are ok with having seperate interests. Even in arguments we never forget that we like each other, we may snap at each other but then we apologize and talk it over and it's done. I think for us a lot of it is that we were friends and had a sloid friendship for 8 years before we ever got together. The basis for our marriage has always been friendship and love. This month Darren's been working a lot of 12 hour days so when he gets home his energy level is low. We've been doing more vegging in front of the tv than usual, but it's ok because when he gets back to less insane hours we'll get back to doing other things we enjoy together that doesn't include sitting on the couch and zoning out. LOL, doesn't mean I wouldn't like him to be up for walking the dog together once in a while or going out for a movie sometimes but I also understand he's exhausted and we'll do more active together stuff some other time.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Well, dang, I was getting all excited about going to Colorado to put the stamp of approval or the kibosh on the horse whisperer, and Karuuna has already stomped on the bridal bouquet. Poop. I still think we should have had more details WAY earlier. Hmph.

Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 6:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
Newman, last night while walking the dog a heard (from across the street and through brick walls and closed windows and doors) a woman yelling a tirade at her husband. You were right. Get the heck out of there. (lol).

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 8:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    

I liked your NO HINTS thought, Lance. I'm remembering how much I thought mind reading was so important in my marriage. "I'm not a mind reader," I would say. Can't you just tell me what you want? Of course that takes the romance out of it. The partner should know his mate well enough to know what she wants without her saying anything. I think that's the American Romantic Dream, and it works both ways.

Compromise. Again this word goes against the grain of the American Romantic Dream. I recall my wife "whining" to me once, "why does everything have to be a negotiation with you!"

"...an answer the other wants to hear..." Isn't that a lot of what dating is all about. I really think women are guilty of this much more than men.

My wife would go out to the sports bars with me to watch the Avs in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. She couldn't have liked sports as much as me, but she liked being away from the kids for awhile, where she could drink and smoke and unwind. Is that compromising, or is she getting what she wanted anyway?

Sigh. I think compromise and communication are important. Of course. who doesn't? Again, that leads me to the sad thought: does everything have to be PERFECT for a marriage to flourish?

Feelings. Let's drag Karuuna into this discussion. She has found a new McWonderful. But she is reluctant to pull the chord again. My wife got married (ooops, ex) for the third time last month. I would be reluctant to do it again unless I found perfect. Don't want to be burned again.

Feelings, Lance. You have to put feelings into the mix, the formula, the blueprint for success. If she doesn't FEEL loved, if you don't FEEL respected, if the marriage FEELS like work, I don't think it's going to work.

There has to be spontaneity and fun and spark along with the work of communication and compromise.



Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 9:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
I just can't afford another ex-husband.

I wouldn't consider getting married again until my son was grown and out of the house. Lots of reasons for that, but mostly because it's just too hard on the children. He has three daughters too. Our priorities are our kids right now, their needs come first, and that he thinks that way too is one of the many reasons he's McWonderful.

Merrysea
Member

08-13-2004

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Merrysea a private message Print Post    
I don't know if I want to get married again. I don't think it has to be perfect, but there's a lot I won't compromise on. We have to have some shared interests and values, and we both have to appreciate that the other needs some time and space alone sometimes (at least I need my space - if he doesn't need his, he has to accept mine!). There has to be chemistry. He has to be interested in what I have to say, not just sit and wait for an opening to talk about him. (This comes from having dated a lot of frogs!) I have to want to be with him because I want HIM, not because I don't want to be alone (and he has to feel the same way)! Oh, and he probably has to be a liberal!

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Merrysea, I smiled when I read your post. As I get older I am simply less willing to compromise. I've lived alone since '97 and i'm pretty much used to having things "my way."

Then I go over to the tv thread, House, and the phrase "non-traditional relationship" jumps out at me. That's really what I'm looking for (passively) now. I'm not sure I'm looking to live with someone else ever again. But I sure wouldn't mind falling in love again.

The thing has always been, in the past, that when I meet someone, we click, fall in love, I'm in a big hurry to move in with her. When you first fall in love don't you "always want to be with her?" That's how I was.

But it never worked. I chose wrong or else love doesn't really exist, it's just something in novels or movies, or it just doesn't last.

Or maybe I just fell too soon...made poor choices...was thinking with something other than my head...musings on a President's Day no mail.


Max
Moderator

08-12-2000

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Max a private message Print Post    
"I'm not sure I'm looking to live with someone else ever again. But I sure wouldn't mind falling in love again."

Hey, were you in my head?! That's exactly where I'm at, too. :-)

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Count me in that too.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
I wouldn't mind living with someone, after my son has moved out. It depends on the someone, of course. If he is as laid back as I am, it wouldn't be a problem at all. I'm not real big on having something a certain way, or whatever. But if he snores, he has to have his own room.

Jeep
Member

10-17-2001

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeep a private message Print Post    
Ditto on the "falling in love is OK, but not getting married again" bandwagon. And not even sure I want to live with someone else or them live with me. Even tho I've only been divorced a year, I'm still thinking I don't want anyone else walking on my new white carpet......unless of course, he's barefoot and nekkid

ETA - right! snoring is a killjoy

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Must love dogs.

Jeep
Member

10-17-2001

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeep a private message Print Post    
And you know what I really would like to have, just once in my life......a real hand written love letter. That is a lost art. While going thru my mom's things to settle her estate, I found tons of postcards my dad sent to her when he was in Europe during WWII and letters she sent to him. They both kept them. I never ever thought of them as romantic. It was so sweet. He sent her lots of silk hankies and tidbits from Paris, too. Sigh.....

Yesitsme
Member

08-24-2004

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yesitsme a private message Print Post    
I would love to be married...I'm 45 and never have so I love to experience that. But a good marriage....where, as Jimmer says, I both like and love the person and they feel the same. I don't want less than that. I know I can be single...sometimes I fear I am too good at it. My life is relatively easy and full. But I would love the companionship and support a good marriage brings.

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Just read the Feb 19 archive. I missed a lot that I didn't have time to read.

Mamapors, I was struck by your thought that you could have 50/50 and special, both. Isn't that like having your cake and eating it too? I mean, can you have it both ways? You want to be treated special AND you want to be treated as an equal?

Together time should happen naturally. If you have to work on everything in a relationship, well it sounds like too much work to me. Everything can't be work. Some things should be spontaneous fun, just happen naturally.

Jimmer, I'm totally with you on the like vs. love. You have to have both. In fact it is so much easier to understand like than love. We all know what we like. She's funny. She's cute. She's smart. I like that about her. It's love that is harder to explain in words.

Max, when you said that part about doing things together, out of control or jealousy again, it was something I had never thought of. If you want to be with someone because you're afraid they may be sneaking off and sleeping with someone else, well, aaaaaiiiiieeeeeeee, get out of that thing now!

I like being alone at times, like right now, when I'm recording music and typing thoughts. Some people don't like being alone, ever.

I know when I first met my wife I liked her. She was fun, active, outgoing, loved sports, liked to drink beer and talk, liked sex, was smart, thin, happy, had a good job, a teacher, liked her brothers and folks, she was a doer, loved to read, and she had well behaved kids. Only later did I find out that they were well behaved out of fear because she terrorized them, yelled at them, screamed at them.

Max, I have said that phrase to others, and they laugh, but its so true. I liked her because she liked me! Is that wrong to want to be liked by your lover? Isn't that a given...but it's something that should be said. For IT to work, you have to like them and they have to like you. Respect is in there somewhere too.

Jeep, I didn't mean to stress the Catholic part. I think my marriage didn't work because she came from a large family, lotsa kids, lots of commotion. Noise. I wasn't used to that...and her yelling.


Schoolmarm
Member

02-18-2001

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 3:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Schoolmarm a private message Print Post    
I'd love to be married again, but I doubt that I would find a great guy who wouldn't mind my odd interests and "extreme career". I few years ago, I would have given the career up to be married and have kids in a SNAP. Now, I think that I'm getting too old to have kids, and don't think that I want to give up the career anymore.

Heck, right now, I would settle for a hot date! Nowadays, the only hot dates are ones that I make for myself. I'm going to a musical and the casino in St. Louis on Wednesday as an early birthday present. Might go to an opera at Indiana the day after my birthday. Or maybe I'll go suit shopping. Or maybe I'll just stay home and put more Pirate ships together and sort my Magic cards.

Yeah, I have odd interests!

Yesitsme
Member

08-24-2004

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 3:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yesitsme a private message Print Post    
I'd take the hot date, too!!!!! Then again, I get so weird on dates....can I just jump to marriage?

Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 6:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
I have never been married. I never had a desire to have kids so marriage wasn't a priority. I did date a guy for one year but although he could afford to take me to nice places (and did) I eventually found him to be boring to be with. I suppose eventually we might have married, but after a year he had still not kissed me. One night I got a call from a close male friend who had moved away but came back (we had kissed) and I realized I needed a more physical relationship and dropped the rich guy. It was not until I was 44 that I actually had a sexual relationship ( with a guy 15 years younger,the only way to go). This lasted off and on for 10 years. Now I am content living alone. I have always had a fear of men so I think that is why I have not had many relationships.

Chewpito
Member

01-04-2004

Monday, February 20, 2006 - 7:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chewpito a private message Print Post    
allrighty, been reading here for ever but never joined in. Im laughing at Yesitsme, cause she sounds abit like me in that - Id like a guy, one that is allready positioned on my couch, he can have the remote, leave his socks any where, but I dont want to go thru all that dating stuff, I just want him to be there. I dont want to put on nylons and flirt,cook a fancy meal and sit at the table--(when I never do/sit at the table,I do cook) act goofy and try to impress.. He dosent have to strut about looking manly,or tear down an engine (reving it a few times) and rebuild it, or rewire the house and prove to me - that he can. (if he can, thats great) im just not into the exhausting beginning of romance, where nobody acts like there self, and your dead tierd trying to be "extra great". Im too old for that. Ive been married twice. Once for true love,and it was a disaster and hard to explain. We were so happy,allways camping,fishing,..we both worked and when we didnt it was just us. He was in a terrible car wreck, allmost died,in a coma for 3 months and major plastic surgery on his face,...and nothing was ever the same, not because of me,but he just lost his mind. He became abusive,physical and emotional,not a little,a lot. I was caught in a nightmare. Was I the good wife and "there for him" or "the weak woman that couldnt handle this strugle" it took near death to figure it out, I left. He is still in my heart,cause I remember the befor guy,and have allways struggled with the guilt that I was not strong enough to deal. Im still haunted by my inlaws telling me that if I was a good wife I would stand by my man..It took quite a few trips to the hospital to figure out that if I was a good wife, Id be dead. My second husband was the father of my daughter,and we were just friends, better friends, but not good lovers.. It just didnt work. Ive raised my daughter by myself, lived with a man for quite a few yrs,his two sons called me mom, we ended up splitting up, but it was because of me, ive just didnt want to try hard enoph with him. We are still friends, I remain friends with any one that ive been involved with. I love my alone time, I deal with abused woman all day and have pritty much seen it all. There are a million stories out there and people walking around with all kinds of bagage, somtimes you get to a point in your life that sharing the crap, is exausting as well. So comming home to two happy dogs that wag there tails and like me no matter what my head is caught up in...is just easyer. I get lonley,but I get over it, I think maybe if its meant to be, it will just happen, But if it dosent, Im fine. .. My wonderfull younger sister started dating her husband in the 8th grade,all thru H.S, got married to him at 20, waited till early 30s to start with kids, they were seriously the perfect couple, at least in my life- they just loved each other so much. 3 beautifull kids and life was great. My brother in law was riding bikes in the park with my 10yr old nephew, dad just fell over and died,no warning,heart attack, instant death. My nephew sat on the trail till a jogger came by and used his cell to call help,but it was to late. He was only 45,my sister is now alone with 3 kids and looks so lost, my heart breaks to just think of her. She just repeats the words, "We were going to have so much fun,ive been ripped off". That was in august.(2 weeks befor Maris lost her husband) Why I even mentioned it was because, when it all comes down to it, nobody knows what this life holds for you, we get old, or older..and its just one step at a time. I loved reading about Wargods relationship..when I hear about the good ones, it gives me hope... allright, ive made up for lost time here....