Author |
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:35 am
I've always been too busy living my life to worry about some dream. And I've rarely had exactly the dream demographics. For 13 years had one husband, but no kids and as many as 20 + dogs (only when we had puppies) and two cats, living in a rental cottage with one bathroom and no central heat. (actually the first three years were spent up in Berkeley, finishing my degree, guess that is part of many dreams ) I've lived with significant others at times since then, but more often on my own with 3, then 2, then 1, then 0 dogs and then 1, then 2 cats and I've owned my condos. And I'm fine with it and I don't have a defined dream, other than wishing that the two cats would get along. My neighbor seems to have a strong dream. She moved in single with five daughters and at least three summers she's gotten involved with a guy, usually they have several children, they all move in, they start barbequing in the patio (their dream includes me getting their barbeque stench) and each time she puts her condo on the market, or almost does and then suddenly breaks off the engagement. A couple of nights ago I heard a male voice, saw extra children and he cranked up the barbeque, so I guess she's pursuing her dream for yet another summer.. That's cool if it is her dream, not just something expected of her. However I do have 2.5 bathrooms 
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 9:44 am
Yesitsme, if I want to spend all of my time with you, is that really very much time at all? We both work in different places and for long hours. Really, when you cut out sleep and work, if you lived with someone, you aren't spending all that much time together. Increase the passion? I would "settle" for just finding the passion. Not sure where you were going with your last paragragh, 8:35am. Merrysea, I was nodding at the use of the word "connect with" in your post. Those people are not easy to find. You would think that when God invented the computer, He would have also created dating sites that made this whole quest easier. Got back from a "church" dinner, where I didn't make new friends, and only really connected with the one friend I have from church. It gets depressing...the hope of meeting Ms Right. It feels like a million to one shot, a needle in a haystack, select your own tired cliche. Better to accept living alone. Why even try?
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 9:51 am
Karuuna, not every man is looking for an independent woman. My breakfast buddy this morning was saying he hopes he finds some woman who would "depend on him". I guess it's wrong to think that everyone is looking for the same thing. Like Yes said, you have to figure out what will make YOU happy. And I think that changes as with journey thru our lives, go thru our "passages". I think my head is stuck on some "American Dream" I had back when I was 26 or so. That was 30 years ago. I need to rethink what I want and what would make me happy as I near the finishing line. Karuuna, I think it's that men wonder why YOU need them rather than why you would want to be with them. I need you vs. I want you. Isn't that the question? My friend wants to feel needed in a relationship. I want to feel wanted.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:07 am
Einstein, one of the greatest thinkers that ever walked this planet, once said something like the decision we have to make is whether we see the world as relatively hostile or relatively safe; and that decision effects the whole of everything we think. If we focus on what's wrong, we'll only see what's wrong. If we focus on what we don't have, we'll be depressed, who wouldn't be? Looking outside for the answers and happiness is like having an illness and asking your doctor to prescribe the medication for someone else to take. A very wise Buddhist teacher of mine once suffered the loss of someone he loved dearly. As he was mourning her loss, he was thinking about all the lovely things she brought into his life that would no longer be there - her compassion, her wit, her constant loving nature. Then he understood. If he wanted those things in his life, the best thing to do would be to become those things, rather than hope for someone else to come along and supply them. These are the principles I (mostly) use to guide my life. If I'm unhappy, it's generally my attitude that's the problem. If I'm lonely, it's because I have defined not being lonely in such a rigid way that I can never be unlonely. Alternatively, I can choose to focus on the many friends I have, the many blessings I have in my life; and instantly I feel better, and more positive, more confident and more at peace. One more quote on this lazy Sunday: A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror. - Ken Keys
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:10 am
Interesting Kearie, that you mention the word "need" in your Adam and Eve reference. Max, I liked your depiction of the American Dream being manipulated by some marketing department. "This is what you are supposed to want." Why are we supposed to want to be house poor? Why is it that we want to be working our butts off, having no time to spend with the kids or family or spouse, and the only time you really see the kids is when you are driving them to soccer practice (even though there is a school and field right down the street), or when you are picking them up from gymnastics class. That so didn't make sense to me. But in the end it for me it was about your other thought: picking the right person. They don't teach you that in school. The most important things in life you have to learn on your own. Seamonkey, you made me chuckle about the 2.5 bathrooms, ah yes... Never had the white picket fence, but they do look so "American dreamlike" in Norman Rockwell paintings...
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:25 am
Newman, "interesting" how so?
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:37 am
I think growing up in a small town gave me a perspective on what is "enough" that might be different than if I had grown up in an urban area. I know my ex sure had different views on that subject than I did! He needed the big house, new cars all the time (he said we didn't buy new tires, we bought new cars instead). He didn't understand where food comes from (he got really mad at me one time because I cracked up when we were in the store and I said something about how a fruit or veg was grown -- don't remember which -- and he said that wasn't where it came from. Never did figure out where he thought it came from other than the bins at Safeway!). He thought that the barns at the state fair stank to high heaven whereas I thought it smelled like a little slice OF heaven (especially the horse barns). I tried to buy into his version of the "dream" for seven years. During the process, we got in debt up to our eyebrows, something that bothered the heck out of me and never seemed to phase him. Since leaving him, I have managed to get out of debt except for my house, in which I have quite a bit of equity. I'm now in a phase of life where I want to downsize. I'd like to get rid of about half my possessions and live much more simply. The problem I have now is that I don't have time to do it! Sounds crazy, but it takes a lot of time to sort through things, figure out what things are worth and how to sell them or give them away or whatever. Maybe I should call in one of those estate sales people and just let them have at it. That and a big dumpster in the driveway should do the trick! (I'm really only half kidding here!) I guess expectations is the key here. I agree with Karuuna's post. If you look for good, you'll see it. If you BECOME good, you'll attract it. Now, if I envision a downsized home with half the stuff in it. . . 
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:09 am
I don't post here much at all but I do follow the thread. I just have to say that I love Max's optimism. If you BECOME good, you'll attract it. I love that!! It's so simple but it's so true. Good luck on your down sizing! I know you can do it!! 
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:36 am
It's simple, you attract who YOU are!
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:48 am
Guess I'm a nobody. 
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:05 pm
Well Kearie, if you are a nobody, what does that say about me, my little kindred spirit friend?
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:17 pm
Good one, Kearie. Isn't it better to attract nobody, than the wrong person? I think so. Interesting in the sense that I was trying to talk about the concept of "need", wanting to be needed, and so forth and Karuuna was talking about being independent. Did Adam "need" Eve or did he just "desire" her? All that stuff is bunk to me, being created from his rib and all, but I'm a feminist and that is merely my point of view. I wish it were that simple, Baby. Just think positive thoughts and good things will happen to you, and you will only attract good people in your life. I don't believe that one either. It's a sweet thought, I agree, but... It's hard for me to bury my head in the sand and pretend bad things aren't happening in this world of ours. What if George Bush cared as much about the Sudan as George Clooney did, for example? Wouldn't it be a better world?
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:28 pm
Newman, what one puts out, one will receive back. What the person does with what comes back to them, is their choice. No one said one would only attract good people. That's just not the way it works. What one does with the people that come their way, is up to them.
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:30 pm
Kearie, YOU are so far from being a nobody. YOU are truly a wonderful somebody! And you are a beautiful friend!
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:43 pm
I know Baby, I was just being silly. Typical me. Newman, the point of my post up there was to show that men, in general, have a more difficult time with loneliness then women ... based on several things that have been studied by sociologists. In that way, men need women more than women need men. That is why I posted the reference to Adam and Eve. I don't know if it signifies "need", I just thought it was worth thinking about. Why did God give Adam Eve? I doubt it was solely for pleasure and procreation. In all the perfection of the Garden of Eden, Adam was lonely.
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:06 pm
I know Kearie! I also was being silly but honest! As far as your post re: Adam and Eve, I think you are right on. I do believe men generally are more lonely than women. I just had a conversation with a friend of mine about that yesterday. We both agreed we are very content with the women friends we have. We have no need or desire to find a man to fit into our lives.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:09 pm
So Newman, what should a woman do do with her girlfriends and guy friends and the people and things that made her life fulfilling before you come into it? Not that you would not be welcome into that world, but the truth is that I probably wouldn't want you in that world every minute. I still a responsibility to them and a need for them in my life. I have three very close male friends, all married. One I met my freshman year in college, one I met a couple of years out of college and one worked for the same company I did early in my career. They have all only been friends... I have never dated any of them. I remember a guy I worked with telling me one time that I would have to give up those relationships if I ever married, because no man should be expected to put up with that. As I told him, if a man demanded I give up those dear friends, who have brought such joy to my life, I would give up the man. He obviously wouldn't know me or trust me to a level that I think is essential to me for marriage. If a relationship demands I give up the things in my life that I cherish, I think it would be wrong for me. I would want to spend time with him and cultivate that relationship but not totally give up who I am and what I have built in these single years. I want him to respect me and not resent that I had a life apart from him. I truly believe that your spouse should be the most important person in your life, but they should not be the only person. Yes, there are limited hours of off time, but still in my mind there are quite a few of them. Spending all that time together doesn't necessarily mean you have a great relationship....often it shows that you are not secure in that relationship or in yourself. I need a high level of trust. I have friends that want the relationship that I would find smothering, so I by no means feel that my way is the only way. I think one of the things that comes from maturity is identifying what you want and need, and trying to find a relationship in which you would thrive. I don't want to be totally independent in a relationship... I want someone I can count on to care for me, and me for him. But not because I need him to take care of me, because I have done quite well taking care of myself. I want us to choose each other, envelope each other into our lives, yet still retain some of what we have built on our own.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:18 pm
Actually Newman, I think it's very hard for most men I've known to say to them, no I don't need you. I do want you, and it makes my life richer to have you be part of it. I think it plays on their insecurity. If I don't need them, I'll leave them. I'm going through a bit of that now with HW. He understands intellectually, but it does make it more difficult for him when I say "thanks for the offer to help, but I can stack these 160 bales of hay on my own." I think it's also difficult because part of the way that men show their love (IMO) is by doing things for their beloved. So, for him, it almost sounds like I'm rejecting his love by saying I'll stack my own hay. So I'm learning to let him do things for me also, even if I don't need his help. It's give and take. And yes, I do think if you are upbeat and positive, you will attract more all kinds of people to you. Being negative only attracts more negative people. Upbeat positive folks really don't like being drug down by someone who is miserable all the time. But positive people attract other positive people as well as negative ones. It's like Richard Bach said in one of his books. Most relationships are built on someone who is a balloon (a dreamer, a motivator, a possibility thinker) and someone who is a lead brick (practical and down to earth but weighs others down with doubts and "reality"). But the best relationships of all are two balloons. The worst of all then must be two lead bricks in relationships, and I know a few of those too. Ugh. I always feel drained when I've spent time with them. Everything about life is awful, awful, awful. Makes you want to slit your wrists after an hour or so! I'd rather be around people who acknowledge the reality of life, but don't dwell on it. They are looking for solutions to the problems and are energized by actively working to make things better. They're not ignoring the bad, they are quite aware, yet they have great hope and positivity.
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:30 pm
Your last paragraph Karuuna sounds like my kind of person. These are definitely the kind of people I choose to surround myself with! They are the "good stuff" in this world! They are the best!
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:38 pm
"Whoever is happy will make others happy, too." ~ Anne Frank
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Baby
Member
01-08-2006
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:50 pm
That is such a great quote and so true, Vacanick! That is why I surround myself with happy and positive people. Life is too short to let negative people into it. I say surround yourself with the happy, positive, giving, caring, and loving people. There are plenty out there if you have the right attitude and take the time to look!
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:58 pm
Karuuna, perhaps letting him help stack the bales of hay is a gift? Letting someone be needed even if they aren't technically "needed". Of course you need balance; someone who just runs around needing to be needed would be a real pain. Rosie O'Donnell and her partner talk about one being the plant and one the gardener. I believe they got that concept from Maya Angelou.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:23 pm
Thanks, Baby. Sea, I let him stack the hay, since he seemed so insistent on it. Besides, I'm always dead sore after I do it anyway, so it seemed a good thing to let go of. But I won't let him scoop poop, that's therapeutic to me, odd as it may sound. 
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:34 pm
Karin, Colossus was o-ffended. I mean O-FFENDED when he'd offer to help and I'd refuse early in our relationship. Life just seemed very simple when I knew to do everything for myself. Maintenance, cooking, gardening, financials, automobile issues (a particular sore spot). In a very gradual process, I learned how to accept his offers of help both because it made him feel good and I realized that it was very nice not to have to do every damned thing myself. It was a comfort zone I'd never had before. All things in good time, though. Like Seamonkey said, wanting to help and needing to be needed can be very different things. I'm glad you let him help with the hay - and I'll bet he was sorry he offered when he was done LOL. You probably have a big strong one who doesn't want his Little Missy to get so worn out and dirty, it might look like he doesn't take good care of you. No reason to let him know you could probably kick his ass around the block like a can if pressed LOL. And PS that's not game-playing, that's simply helping each other out. I bet you'd offer to help stack his hay and shovel out his stalls if the tables were turned. I view it like team-building exercises. Not the spanking kind, though, nosirreebob those will get you sued.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 7:08 pm
Bigdog worked like a damn DOG today out there planting strawberries in weedcloth on the hill. I let him do it so he could show how much he loves me. I am the strawberry eater in the family. I do find it a bit curious in an intellectual way, though. I have never asked for a strawberry patch, would never ask for one if he had to work that hard. He just knows I love strawberries. I would, however, be happy to buy them. I do buy them. I ate some store-bought strawberries today while he was out there breaking his back. This might call for a further glass of wine and further pondering ...
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