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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 8:56 am
I believe it damages the dopamine receptors in the brain. My understanding is Meth causes one to feel "happiness" and "joy" more so than what is normal. It's the only way to become that happy, so to speak. After long term use a person is unable to feel happiness because of the damage to the brain. Meth is huge in Washington.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:09 am
Eeyores, I'd have to look up the article, but from memory, it increases glucose metabolism in areas of the frontal cortex responsible for fear and anxiety. In addition, it decreases the density of dopamine (D2) receptors and transporters causing a brain that looks much like that of someone with severe physiological depression. It's quite likely that is the cause of its highly addictive nature, since dopamine is highly responsible for the sensation of pleasure, the loss of the ability to detect dopamine means people feel more depressed not on the drug, and therefore require more and more of the drug just to feel normal. Over prolonged use, the increased loss of dopamine transport and detection causes psychosis. In addition, the area of the (orbitofrontal?) cortex that it effects in this way is highly responsible for impulse control. Note that both of these effects have been shown to be persistent, ie, they last long after someone stops taking the drug. That's also why many meth treatment programs are turning to anti-depressants to assist in their abstinence program and to return those structures to more normal function.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:11 am
Thanks, Skootzie. Thanks, Eeyore. Very interesting; makes a lot of sense to me. The Frontline article I posted (on the previous page of this thread) does address what happens in the brain--and it also features a map of the concentration of meth users. Looks as if Kar and Kearie are on point. Here is a link directly to those pages: Meth and the Brain Map-The Reach of Meth
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:12 am
Well, I'm thinking it has to do with the feedback regulation of the number of dopamine receptors on the post-synaptic density. As they are over-stimulated, the body sort of "takes away" receptors so one isn't so stimulated. However, once that "stimulation" stops (drug taking is ceased), the body re-manufactures receptors, bringing them back up to normal levels. If I understand my courses correctly, this is a normal body process whenever there is the overstimulation. There isn't PERMANENT damage, and this is where habituation comes from. This is also why many drug users force themselves to go in and out of the drug taking lifestyle. The break is necessary to get back to the heightened sensitivity levels again. Up here in BC, we have a BIG BIG BIG problem with marijuana grow-ops in great big 8 bedroom homes used only to grow pot. It's BC's largest cash crop. In any case, the humid atmosphere is a necessity, and causes all kinds of molds to grow in the drywall, which in turn causes asthma in children of drug dealers. Very unsafe. Interesting to hear that you are working on legislation with regards to houses like these. I wonder what happens to houses up here. Would be interesting to see if there is legislation like that up here. Might have to write my MLA (provincial politician). It's a great idea.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:31 am
Ya, what Kar said.
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:42 am
"There isn't PERMANENT damage." Of course there is permanent damage! My sister will never get back all that she has lost because of this horrible drug. She can't keep a job or a place to stay. She owns nothing because she exchanges for a hit. She pawns her child off on others because he is not her priority. Can you imagine the permanent damage she is causing on this poor child?? Her health has been severely compromised because of this drug. She is so thin and sucked in ... has been for years. I imagine some day her heart will give out. How much more permanent can you get??
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:42 am
Eeyores, as I said, the research on meth specifically seems to indicate that the changes are persistent, ie longlasting, especially in long-term users. Recovery of dopamine sensitivity takes well over a year. In addition, as I recall, psychological functioning is (impulse control, decreased psychosis) does not recover at the same rate as dopamine receptivity, indicating that there are other more longlasting effects.
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 9:50 am
I completely agree Karuuna. I know ex users who are now on antidepressants because they messed up their brains chemical makeup using this awful drug. They are unable to function without medical assistance. But at least they are no longer using!
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Adven
Member
02-06-2001
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 10:08 am
Eeyore, some of your comments about meth are true. Almost any drug is safe in small, controlled amounts. Conversely, almost any drug can do irreparable damage if you ingest enough or enough over time. So your comments, although scientifically accurate, are a little misleading. What makes meth dangerous is the desirable "high" in combination with its addictive qualities and, as with most addictive drugs, you need to keep taking more to get the desired result, thus increasing addiction and toxicity. Many drugs chemically similar to meth have been used for treating anxiety and other disorders, but they too are addictive and create their own nightmares for their users. Most doctors prescribe them sparingly and many others are no longer legal. The fact that meth is chemically similar to many legal drugs speaks not to the relative safety of meth, but to the dangers of many prescription medicines.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 10:09 am
Meth use has been increasing here in Bmore/MD also.
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 10:10 am
Thank you Adven!
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 10:23 am
adven, AMEN!
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 11:35 am
from google: Merced County has the reputation as being the ‘methamphetamine capitol of the world’. ... In 1999, over 260 meth labs were busted in the Central Valley this is where i live and the problem is HUGE!!! in one trailer park with only 80 units, 3 places were busted in one afternoon a month or so back. there are houses people move into where the new buyer didn't know meth had been processed and the people got violently ill. they can't live in the houses, it was not disclosed they were meth houses, and these people are out of luck; they still owe the mortgages (i think it was recently changed that it has to be disclosed and decontaminated before being sold, but that doesn't help those who bought before the law changed).
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 11:38 am
<<More than 15000 people a year receive drug treatment for meth alone in Madera , Fresno , and Merced counties. Due to the remote nature of these counties, ...>> 2005
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 11:40 am
<<Meth addiction is a serious epidemic in Los Banos, California>>
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 12:14 pm
The fact that meth is chemically similar to many legal drugs speaks not to the relative safety of meth, but to the dangers of many prescription medicines. Thank you Adven!!!
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 12:22 pm
Any critical thinking course will tell you that the "But I know a person" argument is faulty. There are exceptions to every rule. It really bothers me that when I suggest that the SETTING is important to the EFFECTS of a drug, people take it like I'm actively suggesting people run out and abuse meth in a clean setting. All I was saying is that the setting is a MAJOR confound. Here are some things I think. <57> * Meth is also a prescribed and legal drug called Desoxyn. * Just because street meth is made in a different way than Desoxyn, doesn't mean it is chemically different. * Not all meth users become addicted. The users who do become addicted are addicted for reasons other than just the drug. * The skin picking and dirty lifestyle you see is not BECAUSE of the drug, it's because of the user's perceptions of their environment. Clean up the environment, you will not see the skin picking and other dirty traits. By my saying there isn't permanent damage, it was obvious I was talking about brain structure, not environmental, emotional, and social damage. <57> I am not a monster, I just don't believe the hype, and rely on scientific data over shock-show pictures. Thank you Karuuna for having a discussion based on facts and scientific data.
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 1:16 pm
i didn't mean you were 'actively suggesting' anything, but i don't buy all your argument. (and i mean argument in the discussion way, not anger way!) <57> a clean environment would not make a crystal meth user imagine bugs or other horrors, so they wouldn't scratch at their faces? aren't there imagined horrors, no matter what actual setting you are in? i'm just wondering. also, the fact that i know a person (or more than one) is enough for me, whether some find that faulty or not. for me, it's not A critical thinking class. it's real life...and it's critical. i know you have valid arguments for your position, but i feel my arguments are also valid. what good is no change in brain structure if your social, emotional,and environmental status do change?
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Emeraldfire
Member
03-05-2003
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 3:31 pm
Eeyore, I have never thought of you as a monster. I have always enjoyed and respected your posts. I think that was why I was so shocked with your opinions expressed regarding Meth in this thread. In your post at 10:16 pm on April 7th you stated that you know many people that use Meth regularly on a social basis much like alcohol with no consequences. They lost no weight and hadn't thrown their life away. The young man that started and used Meth daily to lose weight never did lose anything but suffered in other ways such as losing his job and becoming paranoid to the point he could not leave his home. The people that you witness using it socially I truly believe are messing with fire and will be very lucky if it does not eventually affect their life in a very negative way. One other important point is from your post at 11:09 am on April 8th where you stated: Meth is also a prescribed and legal drug called Desoxyn. and Just because street meth is made in a different way than Desoxyn, doesn't mean it is chemically different. There is a major difference there that has to be noted. An addiction to Desoxyn is an addiction to a safely manufactured drug that is being abused. Street Meth is not made safely by qualified chemists. Street Meth is made by junkies who are playing a guessing game with dangerous poisons, concerned not with the users safety, but with profit only. Since most Meth users get it from the streets they are in greater danger ingesting unknown poisons to get a fix. I have college degrees and I respect your reliance on book knowledge. However, in this case I feel knowledge should be balanced by wisdom of people who have been through the ordeal of Meth. In my opinion you can not over-hype the dangers of this drug.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 3:38 pm
Great points Emerald
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 3:49 pm
I think it goes without saying (but here I am saying it anyway) that when someone has a terrible experience with anything that it is bound to influence their feelings about it. This is true with a variety of things (alcohol, smoking, drugs, abuse, etc.). There is nothing wrong with that. From what I understand, Eeyore has not experienced those things with Meth and is seeing it from a different viewpoint.
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 3:57 pm
Very good point Jimmer.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 4:32 pm
To be clear, while it does seem apparent the decrease in dopamine transporters does recur to *some* extent, in other cases, it does take medication to help that along, and in other cases, it may not happen at all. From my NIDA newsletters, there are other studies that indicate the following effects of meth use: increased glial activity (an indication of neuronal damage); damage to serotonin producing neurons; an increase in brain markers associated with stroke and Parkinson's disease; persisting long term effects on the ability to feel pleasure (even after two years of abstinence); permanent damage to major organs such as heart, liver and kidneys; continued impaired memory and coordination even after 10 months of abstinence (thought to be caused by damage to dopamine *producing* neurons); increased glucose metabolism (indicating damage) in areas of the brain responsible for sensation and spatial awareness; and reduced functioning and metabolism in the thalamus and striatum. These are very serious side effects, are far more wide ranging than a decrease in dopamine receptors, and in most cases, seem to be at best only *partially* reversible.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 5:58 pm
Well said, Emerald. I guess I am not a 'critical thinker'..maybe it's being a parent, don't know, but I can't intellectualize something like meth use (or alcohol abuse or tobacco use), it's just too harmful.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 8:47 pm
{{{Emeraldfire}}} didn't mean to leave you out last night. I think I let the post sit there a long time before I hit Post Message, and I just missed your post. Good luck to your daughter in her continued recovery.
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