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Archive through March 03, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussion ARCHIVES: 2006 Mar. ~ 2006 May: Baby Boomers, Living Alone, Changing Habits (ARCHIVES): Archive through March 03, 2006 users admin

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Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 6:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
native said: I'm talking about at least waiting until we are both sure there is a future to the relationship. I don't want to have sex with someone that I know is not going to be around in a month or two.

that's what i have tried to say too. i totally agree with that!

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 6:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Native_texan a private message Print Post    
Dogdoc, I love that song. That's what I want for Travis and me someday.

Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 7:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
You will get it Native_Texan!

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 10:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Ya know...when I brought up that "sex by the third date thing"...well, I was thinking about me, in my twenties and thirties. Unfortunately, to be honest, those same old feelings would still be there in my 50s (even though the desire for sex is not as strong).

Native said something like waiting for sex until "we are both sure there is a future to the relationship".

I fight that notion on several fronts. If you are going to wait for everything to be perfect (to be perfectly sure that there is a future and that this is "the one") well...perfect never comes. There's always a problem.

If a man has to wait a long time for sex, let's say several months, if I'm that man I have got to be asking myself "what is wrong?"

If there is no kissing going on, again I ask myself what is wrong?

That's why I don't trust people who don't drink. Seriously. Beer and wine help to break down the inhibitions, help people to relax a little, and put them in the mood for love.

Of course that can be tricky too. I remember one of the great loves of my life, one of the most exciting, fun ones, but it was all alcohol fueled, after playing coed softball. We never became lovers but we had some of the best conversations and some of the most passionate kissing that I ever had. Hmmmm...lost in a daydream...

There's a balance. If you have sex at the drop of a hat like they do on Grey's Anatomy, well, that diminishes it. ON the other hand if you are too afraid to have sex until you are absolutely positively 100% sure, well, that's no good either.

Self confidence is a turn on for both sexes. If you're too afraid to have sex with someone, because of __________________, well, maybe you should get some counseling and not even think about dating until "you are ready."

Sex is a very important part of a relationship. How can you be completely in love without it? Why wouldn't you want it?

Adven, I was laughing to myself when you were comparing love to OCD. What a mood breaker you were up there, LOL.


Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 6:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Newman you crack me up lol.

Adven
Member

02-06-2001

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 6:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Adven a private message Print Post    
Actually, Newman, although I was joking with the love/OCD comparison, it is true. It's just that when the object of our obsession is a person we get gooey and write poetry to capture our bliss. When it's a desire to avoid touching doorknobs, people like me make money.

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 7:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Adven, do you ever "fix" people? Be honest now. I've been to therapy a number of times in my longlife. If it was just about ME I found it useful and interesting and maybe helpful.

It's been awhile. Basically I would say that people don't change. Period.

I know some friends who have been in therapy for 20 years or more. I'm thinking why don't they just buy their shrink a new yacht every 10 years. What's the point of such an extended relationship with a therapist? You can't be learning anything other than you NEED your shrink or that you have to pay someone to be a friend?

I once told my ex-girlfriend, a couple years ago, that love is obsession. She didn't buy that. I'm starting to think I was right. There's a fine line...


Yesitsme
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 7:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yesitsme a private message Print Post    
Hey, when people say they want to wait for sex, does that include kissing? While I agree with those that don't want to rush into sexual intimacy, by no means would I also want to have a dating relationship where kissing is not involved. I have no limits as far as that goes....other than not kissing anyone I don't want to! What is the position of the rest of you on that?

And also, I don't believe on waiting on sex with someone I am dating because I have a fear of sex. I'm not a prude by any means (if my definition of a prude being someone who disdains sex is correct) and I think my attitude about sex is quite healthy. I guess I am one of those people who really feels like there should be both a physical and emotional connection with sex and I want to wait until I have that with a person. I am not good with first impressions, so I know to take time with making that determination. Am I looking for perfection in a prospective boyfriend/husband? By no means! But I am looking for compatible with me and good for me. And I think that finding people I feel that way about is difficult. Maybe some of it comes from me being an introvert at heart but sometimes an extrovert in how I act. I have lots of people I am friendly with, but then there is a select group of close friends. I'm fine kissing a lot of guys, but don't want to have sex with that many!

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 7:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
I can't say cause my thoughts on this whole issue are totally different from all of yall's. But kissing is a must for me.

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Native_texan a private message Print Post    
Newman, I didn't say anything about not kissing. There can be exchanges of affection (how clinical does that sound), such as kissing and cuddling without it having to be foreplay.

I would think that if a couple has been together for several months without having sex, more than one discussion has been had on the subject.

I used to fall for that "if you love me, you would" type. As a matter of fact, between two marriages, I endured it for over 20 years. "If you wanted to make me happy, you would," "If you're not cheating on me, you would," "If I turned you on, you would," "If you're [insert just about anything], you would." 9 of those years was with an alcoholic who would stay out half the night and then come and say "assume the position." More than a few times, if didn't comply, he would use force. So I think you can see where alcohol is a complete turnoff for me.

What I couldn't make either one understand is that the constant "Ifs" eventually turned me off. To them, that was the main part of our marriage. For me, I have learned you also need love, respect, trust, etc. I have also learned that I'm worth a whole lot more than what I've had and I will accept nothing less than I want or expect. If a man can't or won't accept that, he's not the man for me.

And it's not about a lack of self-confidence. It's about finally having self-confidence.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
If a woman hasn't had sex with you by the third date, maybe she's just not that into you. If a woman hasn't had sex with you by the third date, maybe she just doesn't want to have sex.

I am by no means a prude. However, I will tell you this... as soon as a man starts putting a timetable on me (oh, lookie, it's our third date, time to have sex!), he's out of there. Seriously. If it's meant to happen it will. Doesn't matter who initiates, just don't tell me that it's time because it's our third date. Puh-leeze.

I find the comment about not trusting people who don't drink, well, offensive. Just because YOU may need to loosen your own inhibitions does not mean your partner does. What if this partner totally abstains (for various reasons, including overcoming alcoholism). Would you try to insist that person drink to "loosen up"? Does that not sound manipulative and controlling? If you cannot find some other way to "loosen up" (and honestly, I think a nice long laugh together works wonders), do you not think there is a problem?

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Native_texan a private message Print Post    
I can't believe I forgot the best "if" of all - "If you don't give it to me, I'll get it somewhere else."

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Yesitsme,

Some say kissing is a more intimate expression than having sex. You've heard that before, right? The hooker will say, ok, let's just have sex, but no kissing. Am I channeling Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman here, or am I making this up??

But anyway, that's my point. And I'm totally with you, Yesitsme. You have to have kissing. And where does passionate kissing lead? Why wouldn't you want to have the whole nine yards. To just stop at passionate kissing seems like torture to me, teasing, game playing.

It's only natural for that to flow into making love. I can't be wrong on this, can I?


Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Native,

Alcohol is a good issue. People who can't handle their alcohol shouldn't drink. If it turns you into a monster, well, you shouldn't want to be a monster. Clint said it best, "A man's got to know his own limitations."

But most of us CAN drink a few beers and not turn into the Boston Strangler. I've had better conversations after a few beers, or now, after a few coffees than completely straight. I'm actually preferring coffee now as a stimulant to conversation. (Or maybe I'm just a morning person).

Alcoholics must be hard to love. Or impossible to love. I feel sorry for you, Native. I was married to an "anger-holic". That was impossible too.

That's why the vow "in sickness and in health" has always troubled me. When someone is mentally ill, like an anger-holic, and there is no way to fix her, shouldn't you just give up after trying? What's the point? Why be miserable? If someone is always angry you are obviously not good for her either.

I'm not advocating splitting up after the first fight, after two months of marriage. But if you go to counseling, try to work things out, fail, then I say split up, move on. Life is too short. Marriage shouldn't be a death sentence.


Jeep
Member

10-17-2001

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:39 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeep a private message Print Post    
Newman, you said above that you had very passionate kissing with the love of your life, but you were never lovers. Was that torture and game playing?

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Costacat,

I now regret making that 3rd date comment. Still, it's a mental thing. I'm not a prude either. Certainly I've never told a date that we have to have sex by the third date or I'm out of here. But I'm thinking along those lines.

Costacat, I sense a certain hostility toward me from you. Am I right? Do you not like me for some reason? Why? I'm just being honest about the alcohol. Don't we want honesty from people? I would never force someone to drink. I would never force anyone to do anything! What kind of relationship would that be?!

I'm just saying that a few beers tends to relax me and put me in the mood. I'm being honest. I'm not saying get drunk and screw.

Meeting a new person, a date, is a stressful experience. Expectations come into play. This could have a future. What if we really hit it off. Wouldn't that be great!

Those kinds of thoughts get me uptight. A couple of beers along with some laughs and good conversation, relaxes me. I think a lot of people would agree with me. I certainly realize that not everyone does. That's ok. I'm not forcing anyone to think like me or act like me. I'm looking for something that naturally flows. I'm also looking for honesty.


Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Native_texan a private message Print Post    
There was a day when I could keep up with the best of 'em when it came to drinking, but gradually, maybe as a I matured, I started becoming paranoid about being drunk. I began to develop a fear of not being in control. Then after more than one relationship with an alcoholic, it lost even more of its appeal. I was the classic enabler. In the office, I became know as the person who had 2 drinks a year - when the bosses took me out to lunch for Secretary Appreciation Day and then on my birthday. A little over a year ago I had a reaction to one drink at the firm Christmas party and found I had high blood pressure. I have tried one drink since then and had the same reaction. So, even if I wanted to, my system can no longer tolerate alcohol.

ETA: Newman, I agree to each his own, but if you have to have a couple of beers to relax, that's not allowing things to flow naturally.

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Jeep, she was married at the time. Talking separation. Back then I had a strong moral code. I thought it was ok to kiss her but go no further. She certainly wanted to. We had a great chemistry.

She eventually split from her husband and hooked up with a friend of mine. That didn't last either. She had a lot of problems. Don't we all? I think alcohol was one of them. I don't know. Life is complicated.

If you never look for love you'll never find it.

Native, all those "ifs" you printed about, wow. I feel sorry for you. That's no way to live. Life can be so hard sometimes, so often.

That's why it seems easier not to try to find love. Who ever finds it anyway? And does it ever last? Why can't love keep growing? Human nature? Why does it always seem to fade and disappear?

I always thought that if I would just find the right woman, the right fit, the right chemistry, then I could find love. I still want to think that way...


Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 8:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I have friends that drink and some that don’t. It’s not generally a problem except one time when I invited a few of them over for dinner, I asked if anyone wanted a drink. We went around the room and people were asking for various drinks (some alcohol some not).

Then it got to one person who rather loudly proclaimed: “I don’t need to drink alcohol to have a good time and relax!”

Needless to say, a lot of people were uncomfortable with his statement. And that’s the whole point – not being judgmental about what the other person does (as long as they are not hurting someone by doing it).

Jeep
Member

10-17-2001

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 9:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeep a private message Print Post    
Mocha, I would like to hear your thoughts, even if they are completely different. Isn't that what we try to do here, converse about different ideas? You may give us a whole new outlook on the issue.

Jeep
Member

10-17-2001

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 9:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeep a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, that was very rude of that person. I am a very light drinker, wine with dinner is about it. However, whenever I go to a party or out with others, I make a point to have a drink in my hand even if it's only ginger ale. To each their own.

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 9:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Native_texan a private message Print Post    
I look at my experiences as having made me a better and much stronger person. I am not looking for love right now nor do I think I plan to. If you're looking for it, you can be too easily fooled into thinking you've found it. If it happens, it happens. And when and if it does, I believe that due to my past life I will have an even greater appreciation for it.

What my two exes never realized is that I loved them with everything I had and I was also totally and completely faithful. I know I wasn't always the perfect wife (I was told enough times) but I was never complimented for anything I did right either. After a while, the feelings just wither up and die. To give him credit, the alcholic quick drinking the day I made he leave and attended his first AA meeting the next night. The last I knew he had been sober for 10 years with no relapses. We did try to work things out, but I just couldn't get past the past. With the sociopath, I simply had no desire to even try to work things out.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 9:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Over the past few days women have been posting their thoughts about sex. None of the guys had much to say. That's okay, as Lance said...listening.

Seems that most women here:

1) Don't want to feel as if they are expected to have sex.

2) Want to trust a man and feel safe before they
have sex with him the first time.

3) Want a man who's willing to learn.

Newman, I don't think you see those things. You're posts don't reflect that you have understanding or acceptance of the above female thoughts.

Do you have any comments about them?

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 9:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Native_texan a private message Print Post    
Lance, let's hear from you. We all know you're out there lurking and probably biting off the tips of your fingers to keep from talking.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Friday, March 03, 2006 - 9:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Jeep give me some time to get my thoughts together.