Author |
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:22 am
I hear you Cnd. How is it possible to have a successful "casual" relationship? As a Baby Boomer. (maybe that part is not necessary). At any age? It's so likely that one of the two is going to want more from the relationship. What does "casual" mean, anyway? Not caring about the other person? I want a friend to just have robotic sex with? Who doesn't really care about me and my life? Someone to go to dinner and movies with, but who doesn't like me enough to live with me?? Casual means cynical,perhaps. Someone who doesn't think love is real. Someone who doesn't think relationships can possibly work. That's why they don't want to live with you, or get involved with your baggage, your aging parents, teenage children, whatever. Casual is just a way to avoid loneliness. But how good is that for your self esteem? I'll go out with X tonite, to dinner, then sex, and then X will leave. Well, it's better than just watching mindless TV. Is it?
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:44 am
the teenagers have a phrase they use to describe a casual sexual relationship = a friend with fringe benefits. i just heard that term recently as i was scanning radio stations in the car. as a teen my emotions were all over the place and there was no way i could have had that type of friendship without wanting more. now, that would be no problem. i had it for 10 years before i met my dh. yes, we both became involved with each others live. but, we both acknowledged that a permanent relationship wouldn't work. he would chase after anything in a skirt and i wanted to live independently. we were great friends and even talked about our other relationships. and, we were fire cracker lovers. so, it can work. the main reason we stopped seeing each other is because i got a job that moved me over 3 hours away. and, then i fell in love with dh and married him.
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Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:50 am
I had a man proposition me recently to be his friend with fringe benefits. He actually used that very term. I turned him down because I know myself well enough to know that won't do it for me. I don't know how you do it, Cndeariso. I cannot separate sex and emotional attachment. If I slept with Charles Manson, I would get all googly-eyed over him. It's a curse. I wish I could be freer, but every time I have tried, it has back-fired on me.
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:57 am
herminoe, i did get emotionally attached to him but not in the same way i am with dh. i still occasionally had twinges of jealousy over his other girlfriends but nothing serious. we even said we loved each other. and, in a sense we did. i liken it to having a best girlfriend with whom i share all my secrets and her still having other girlfriends that she does other things with just as i do. i know it isn't exactly the same since i don't have sex with my girlfriends. i don't know how to tell someone to do it. it has to be a conscience decision that one reminds oneself of anytime one feels they are falling too far. kinda of like eating chocolate.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:48 am
The relationship that I am currently in is not one that includes spending time with each other's children. We have met each other's children and talk about them to each other all the time. The children do not know we are dating. I don't know if it will end in marriage, and don't really care. It's not "casual" however. We are very committed to each other, even after only 5 months or so of dating. We were actually very committed to each other after about the first month or so. Okay, well him first and more than me in the beginning, but I caught on. I'm a skittery filly. To be perfectly honest, I started out wanting just what Zmom said. Someone to hang out with, go places with, talk to, have fun with, and uh, eventually hot sex. Both of us were looking for that same thing. Funny thing about love tho, it seems to have a mind of its own. The nice thing about HW is that he never pushed. He always waited for me. Eevn though at times I knew he was insecure about our relationship, and knew that he was falling faster than I was. He just waited. Max - to answer your question about what to do with children when you are dating, I've done it both ways. And I have regretted every single time I introduced my son to someone. He does attach easily, especially if they have children too. Oftentimes it's hard for him to keep those friendships if the relationship doesn't work out. So I resolved not to do that again. While my son has met the man I'm dating, it has been at events where we both just happened to be at the same time. I'm very lucky that HW is the kind of guy that children just flock to, they naturally like him, probably because he truly is a big kid at heart. At some point in our relationship, if it continues, we'll encourage more events like that where my son can develop an independent relationship with him, without the pressure of knowing that HW is dating his mom. I truly think that's the best way to approach it. And that will not happen unless HW and I are very very sure that we are commiting to each other for the rest of our lives.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:50 am
And Hermione, just so ya know, I'm with you. In spite of my determination to stay casual, it just doesn't appear to be something I can do either. Just call me googly. 
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:54 am
Just because you don't want to marry someone or live with them or have them involved with your children doesn't mean you're just wanting a casual friends-with-benefits set up. I think what Karuuna describes is what I would be looking for... if I were looking. It doesn't have to be all or nothing -- there is a happy medium.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:51 am
Everyone should do what works for them and if it works then it's great! I understand why people want to be very careful in relationships where children are involved, so that the children don't get hurt. That is very admirable particularly in the early stages of a relationship However, I know that I would have great difficulty staying in an extended relationship with someone if I didn't feel that I could involve her in most important aspects of my life, which would include my family and children. I also would feel unfulfilled if she did not want to involve me in other aspects of her life as well.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 2:48 pm
Kar, while initially that sounds like a great way to go about involving son with HW, I have a question. Given that your son already knows HW and has spent time with HW without knowing about the relationship, if and when you introduce HW to your son as your boyfried and he learns that ya'll have been seeing each other for a while, are you concerned about how your son feeling like he's been duped?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 2:58 pm
NT, thanks for asking. The time he has spent with HW has been pretty minimal, and fairly coincidental so far. He also knows HW as someone who comes over to my house now and then to help with my horses. If at some time, I felt it was time to let him get to know HW better, I would continue to just say HW and I are friends, and leave it at that. If their relationship developed well (as I expect it would), then at some point I would tell my son that my friendship with HW was growing closer and that I'd like to date him and ask my DS what he thought. I do not think I would tell DS that we'd already been dating until DS was older. And then I would let him clearly know that I did out to protect him from getting hurt and disappointed when someone left again. Then again, I might tell him sooner. I really don't think he would be upset, because we have a very strong relationship. He may very well pick it up on it himself at some point, or suggest that we date, so it's very hard to say. But I do truly believe that he will understand that along every step his feelings have been very important to me. We've established that kind of trust already, and I don't think this would shake it. So much of this is just conjecture. Mostly I would just take it one step at a time and figure out the next step when it was appropriate.
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 3:06 pm
Karuuna, can I ask how old your son is?? My son is 9 and I am in the first relationship that he has ever known of, other than his father. I've been open with him since the beginning and he's doing great!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 3:15 pm
Vacanick, my son is just shy of 12. His father and I have been divorced since he was 3. I think every child is different. My son has a rather rocky relationship with his dad, and so when he meets a man who really listens and attends to him, he bonds pretty quickly. Also, since he is an only child, he tends to get very attached to the children of the men I've dated. IMO that's been the more difficult part for him, losing those 'sorta' siblings. I don't want him to go through that pain again.
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Vacanick
Member
07-12-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 4:19 pm
I can completely understand you wanting to protect your son Karuuna. My son's father and I were never "really" together so my son is very well adjusted to being with us separately. My son is also an only child but my BF doesn't have any children. I could see how children can become attached very quickly ... to BF or other children. Your son is very lucky to have a mom that is that concerned with his feelings!
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:22 pm
"Friends with benefits"....a side of me could probably deal with it if that was the understanding up front and I do see the appeal, but then the other side of me likes the idea of wrapping up love, sex and commitment in one package. I'm not much one for casual relationships. I think it's one of those things where people really have to know themselves and their partner...from my friends I have seen a lot of situations that started out as pure fun with no strings, but one of them would get too involved and chaos followed. I'd love to meet someone with children since I don't have any of my own, but also respect parents who hold back on getting you involved with them early on. I'd worry about me getting too involved and if the relationship broke up being heartbroken at losing the kids!
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 6:56 pm
Kar, thanks for answering my question. Not only are our sons the same age but, unfortunately for both of them, I think they probably have some of the same dad issues. I think the younger the child is the easier they adapt. My second ex had two teenage daughters, one who lived with us, and I can tell you there were moments our house seemed about the size of a pup tent and, bless his heart, the ex was caught in the middle more times than he cared to be. My son's dad had 4 other children when we got together. The youngest was 7 and since the ex had to work almost every Saturday, he spent more time with me than his dad and we are still very close. The other 3 I did not meet until Travis was almost 2 (that's another saga). The oldest died a year later at 16 so we didn't have enough time to really establish a relationship, but the other two were 10 and 12. I haven't been as close to them as I have the youngest and the only real connection we ever had was as victims of the ex's psychotic behavior.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:37 pm
Well, I am not thinking so casual as friends with benefits situation. To me casual is not having to worry about what is going to happen in the future. Let things proceed slowly. I am not ready for an intense relationship. I would like someone to talk with about adult stuff. Keep it lite. If something happens 6 months down the road and feelings change, then deal with them then, not now. I do not want to sit here and think, "Is he the one?" I am not looking for "the one"
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 8:59 pm
yeah, that's what I said Zmom, and look what happened. You're welcome, NT. I think you are right that younger kids adapt more easily. But my son is past that age. And since his dad runs so hot and cold, he also has some real fears about losing me. So the thought of my dating someone is very intimidating to him. The most important thing is to understand your own children, what they need, how they've experienced life and adapt to them. I always think of dating this way, the kids didn't get to choose the divorce, they don't get to choose the new relationships, and they don't get to choose if the new relationships go away. That's a lot of powerlessness, and it takes its toll. So it's only fair to them to be very very careful and sensitive to their hearts.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 9:12 pm
Well, I have a lot of admiration for folks who put their kids first. Unfortunately y'all are not the ones who get the press coverage, but we know you're out there anyway! 
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Riviere
Member
09-09-2000
| Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 5:07 am
Funny, being a slightly post baby boomer and not quite sure of the Gen X sons I raised. I think they termed me a Gen Zero in articles years ago, or the Lost Generation, whatever... We were born to the Boomers yet raised in Woodstock era and a lot of us swam both ways finding direction. My kids when older had to teach me the modern slang and thought of me as a 'fogie' by my 35th BDay. That's just sad! If I'd casually ask sons about their girlfriends they'd laugh and say that she was just a Bed Buddy and I guess it explained very well "bed involved but nothing serious"... In my day we simply called that a Casual Lay so very little changed?

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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 5:23 am
I agree with Jimmer's Wed. 11:43 am post. I think the hard part is figuring out what actually DOES WORK for you. And is there a style that you hadn't thought of or might like to try? If I'm not allowed to come over to HER house and have a home cooked meal, because her kid would be there, well ... What is the big deal that Mom or Dad is dating? You could actually role model dating for your kid. There are life lessons to learn. If things develop into marriage, well, great. If you break up, isn't the lesson that all dates don't lead to marriage? Is that a bad lesson? Or it takes time to get to know someone. The lesson could be that people are on their best behavior when they first date. Later, when you get to know them, you find they might be an alcoholic or an angerholic or a serial killer. You may have fallen in love with him/her, but have decided you don't want to marry a man/woman who can't keep a job, is a control freak, is lazy, has no ambition, whatever your deal breaker is. Kids are resillient. They are sponges. They learn. Why teach them the fairy tale of love ever after? Or that love is all flowers and candy and amusement park rides? When we over-protect our kids, are we really doing them a service? Just some thoughts...
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 6:00 am
Casual lay? Bed Buddy. Friends with benefits? Words. Everyone has their own morality, their own mindset. I never had a casual lay. Hmmm...thinking now, to see if that was true. I'm like Hermione. Can't have sex without emotional attachment. Certainly don't see me changing now, as a Baby Boomer, and it's hard for me to understand, when my adult kids use that phrase (which they do). I don't know Karuuna. Maybe "powerlessness" is an important lesson in life. We all have bosses. We all have to fit into society. <c> There are a lot of things we have no control over. Why not learn that early? I guess, if we wrote about casual vs. intense, we could crack this egg. Words. Who wants an intense relationship ever, anyway? It has the word "tense" right in it! Even I want to have fun and be able to relax with my date. I don't want to be tense or intense. Words... But also I wouldn't be looking for anything casual, where I don't matter, where we could see the movie Porkies IV or Mystic River, either way, doesn't matter. Casual, where you don't care about the other person, just want someone to have sex with, and then can't wait til she leaves! I wouldn't want that either. Which comes back to the title of this thread: Baby Boomers, Living Alone, Changing Habits??? How do you sell yourself on living separately when you have this all American dream of marrying and raising 2.4 kids, with the picket fence and a dog named Racer??}
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 6:49 am
Newman, kids learn enough hard knocks in life - and divorce is one of the hardest ones of all. I don't see any need to toughen them up further by continuing to lose more people in situations where they have no control over the decision making. Life is full of heartbreaks enough, sheltering them from a few when they are young is an act of real love - putting their needs before your own.
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 7:27 am
Well Neman, I don't have the American dream of marrying and raising 2.4 kids...been there, done that and have 2 ripped up t-shirts to prove it. I like living on my own, raising my son on my own and having a life outside of a relationship. And I am not looking for casual sex. If I was looking for that I would have already jumped the guys bones. I am not looking for that. Married people hire babysitters to go out on dates with each other to get away from the kids and have a bit of romance without them around. Why should single parents not have that same opportunity? I would really hate it if I started dating someone, introduced my son to the guy, have him become attached and things didn't work out. His heart would be broken. How would you deal with a child becoming attached and to you, the relationship not work out? What if you became attached to the child? If I can prevent heartbreak on either side I think it's good. Until I know a relationship is going somewhere with a commitment down the road, no one is going to be involved in my sons life. I have talked with men who were raised by a single mother, some who had mothers who did not introduce them to their dates and some who did. Those who had mothers who dated frequently and introduced had relationship issues. I don't want my son to have that.
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Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 7:39 am
If I may comment. It is interesting reading Kar and Zmom's attitudes about dating and children. A year ago I would have attributed the difference between their perspective and Newman's as a sexual difference. But I am also a boomer and dating again for the first time in over 20 years. And I am shocked at how many men I am meeting who have sole custody of their kids because their ex wives just walked away. And it's not just my generation. It's funny how you don't notice things until they become a part of your life. My downstairs neighbor isn't even 30 and he has custody of his 8 year old son. Call me old fashioned but I am happy there are still women with enough maternal instinct or just plain decent humanity to put their young children first. They only get to be kids for such a short time.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 8:16 am
Some of my ex's problems come from seeing his mom's multiple relationships. What's strange is his dad was no different but from hearing the ex talk his dad was the model all dads should live by. And daughters have problems too. My niece has 2 kids by 2 different dads and it's only because she has my parents to take care of the babies that they don't have to wonder where they are every time they wake up. I feel that part of her problem is from watching the way her mom handles relationships (she met husband #3 on the internet and started an affair because she had grown bored with husband #2). My own personal observations are that most dads (and I am talking about the ones I know) do not seem to have the same problem with introducing their children to new "friends" as moms do. What really bothers me is how they think nothing of sleepovers. My opinion is if you only see your child every other weekend (if that), that time should be for your child. If you just have to have a "friend" around, surely you can send them home at the end of the day and sleep by yourself for one or two nights every other week (if that).
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