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Archive through January 06, 2006

The TVClubHouse: General Discussion ARCHIVES: 2006 Mar. ~ 2006 May: Baby Boomers, Living Alone, Changing Habits (ARCHIVES): Archive through January 06, 2006 users admin

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Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 10:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I agree, Max! I'm quite comfortable to NOT live with someone. It has nothing to do with commitment at all, and more of a respect for the other person. If both parties agree and are happy, why is it really anyone's business as to why they are not living together?

I spent NYE with my boink buddy. We have a lovely relationship. We have a lot of fun together, have a lot in common, truly enjoy each other's company (in more ways than one! <snicker>). And absolutely respect each other's space. Neither of us wants an involved relationship. We are more than happy to enjoy each other when we can. We agree on the terms of our relationship.

If any of my "friends" questioned why we don't live together or get married, I'd have to question why those people are my "friends." That, to me, actually shows a total lack of respect and caring for what WE want. Besides the fact that it ain't no one's business what WE do and how WE do it!

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 7:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
Ummmmm, Costa, I hope you don't view my following words as judging you or being critical of you in any way, because they're not meant to be that way.

Now for the criticism <chuckling>...

Just kidding. I could never understand what you're saying when I was younger. Age and experience helps with that. Maybe I was just too hard headed back then.

The longer I live, the more mistakes I make, well, the more forgiving I become, more accepting of differences.

The term "boink buddy" does bother me. I have a daughter who is living with a guy, sort of. I think her generation uses the phrase "friends with priviledges". I worry that she is just being USED by this older guy who has two kids by some other woman. Parental worry.

To me, this thread is like open journal writing. I've been doing more of that myself. For myself. Journal writing. Maybe this is even better. You get feedback from others on the same topic. Get other views. Helps you see the big picture better.

I know that if I ever found a "soul mate" again, at my age, (56 now), I would still want to live together. It's good to hear and see other types of arrangements. Maybe it would last longer if we didn't live together.

But...then it feels like "settling". Hard to get past that thought. Why aren't you living together? Well, she's the best I can find for right now. That kind of thought. As if I can find someone better if I keep looking, rather than live together, and learn to live with each other's flaws, and see if LOVE can actually grow and deepen.


Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 7:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Who's to say *I'M* not the one using my partner?

As I said, we are both consenting adults, and we both agree to the "friends with privileges" relationship. We both agree, and we both like it. And we are happy with our arrangement. If your daughter is happy, isn't that all that's important?

And FWIW, I've never wanted to get married. I knew from the time I was about 15 that I didn't want children, and soon thereafter decided that marriage wasn't gonna be my ultimate goal. And in case your wondering, yes, I've been engaged. Twice. The first time I broke it off; the second time it was mutual.

As consenting adults, it is our right to choose how we wanna "be" with someone. Of course, as a parent, your innate reaction is to protect your daughter. But I'm thinking she's probably doing just fine. :-)

Yesitsme
Member

08-24-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 10:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yesitsme a private message Print Post    
I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations about relationships. I think they buy into the "you complete me" stuff. I say complete yourself, find someone else who completes themself, and then two whole people can get together and enjoy life together as partners. I think you should be aware of who you are, who they are and what you are both capable of, and make informed decisions for yourself based on that.

I've decided for myself that I want marriage at some point and don't want to live with anyone without it. I don't expect others to necessarily decide that for themselves... even the men I get involved with. But I also know if I am dating a man that doesn't want to be married that I need to take that into consideration and not think that changing him is going to happen. Either I keep dating him knowing marriage is not an option (and knowing that I have no right to ever resent him if I choose to do this) or I break up with him. It's odd to me that adults don't have firm views for themselves on what they want at any given time in their lives. One of my closest friends is involved with a guy that will see her once a week....from Saturday evening to after breakfast on Sunday. Seldom does she see him at some other time (though he will sometimes give her her birthday or Valentines day.) If I thought she was really OK with this, I would applaud it, but I don't believe she is. I think she has fallen in love with him and is going to be heartbroken one day because I don't think he will ever be in love with her. Don't get me wrong...there is a side of me that envies him for the relationship....I can see the benefits and there are times that I would have loved it myself. A standing one-night-a-week date would be great sometimes! But I see her hurting, and unable to face it or change it. It's difficult to watch. (Oh....and also when she was going through chemo they didn't have date night on chemo week. She didn't see him at all. And afterwards he told her that he didn't want to see her without her wig because it was hard for him. No thought of how she needed the man in her life to tell her she was beautiful just the way she was. Other reasons I think he isn't good long term relationship material.)

And yet I am with Costa on the "women as victims" thing. I don't buy it. Even with this stuff with my friend, I would have to say that he has been clear with her as to what he wants and she has accepted it, so I would say that she is making the choice to be in this kind of a relationship. I don't think people often change in a relationship once a pattern is set...and they have been involved for over 3 years. If my friend is hurt in the end, and I think she will be, while I will be sad for her it will only be to a degree. There comes a point where as an adult you are responsible for your choices and you have to deal with the consequences that come. That usually is what causes us to make better choices for ourselves in the future. We can gently warn our friends and family members to perils that may be ahead, but we also have to respect their right to their choices.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 11:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Yesitsme, my first guess would be that your friend's friend is married and not telling her.

Metoo
Member

02-22-2005

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 11:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Metoo a private message Print Post    
Juju, that is the impression I got also. He isn't telling all.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 12:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Same here.

Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 2:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Maybe I’m naïve to think this but I don’t see how someone could maintain any sort of a long-term relationship with someone who is married, without finding out about it.

You would never be able to see their home, their co-workers, their friends, etc.

Now I suppose if the person is loaded and has multiple homes .....

Max
Moderator

08-12-2000

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 2:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Max a private message Print Post    
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Sometimes people don't WANT to know the truth.

Yesitsme
Member

08-24-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 2:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yesitsme a private message Print Post    
No, he's not married. She only goes to his house...he will never go to hers. Plus she has met his two grown sons and he has worked at the company she works at for years (and I used to work there and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to be married and have no one know it.) Evidently it is all just scars from his marriage....he says that his wife changed on their wedding night and became a horrible controlling person and every day was miserable. Therefore he seems determined to control his own life now and keep women in their box!

I've never met him, nor have any of her close friends. I think her grown son only met him by accident and last time I asked her, her daughter and mother had never met him. BUT after these years of observation from afar and thinking it through (in my hyper-analytical way), I suspect that he is not all bad. In fact, my guess is that he thinks he has been up front with her and that she is also that way with him. He is a computer programmer and I'll bet he thinks that all people can compartmentalize their lives like he does. She is a "sweet Southern girl" who has evidently been taught that men are the weaker sex and can't handle reality. (I may be unfair here in my characterization since I am obviously not a "sweet Southern girl" by either nature or nurture, though I was raised in the South.) Her defense when he wasn't around when she was fighting breast cancer was that she thought it was just too difficult for him to deal with since he cared so much. (I guess the rest of us were there because we didn't love her as much as he did.) He makes comments about her weight (she is a size 8) and her clothes (she dresses fine) and she says she could never make the same sort of comments to him because he would get upset. Then she says she just lets the comments roll off her back....yet we see that she has become obsessed about her appearance since they have been going out, to the point that she says it takes her hours to plan her clothes for when she is with him. And why would she even mention those comments to us if they didn't bother her?

It all goes back to knowing what you want and knowing when you are willing to settle. No decision is still a decision. I don't think she understands that. I talk to her about it on occasion, but I try to ask a few questions and then stay out of it. It is her decision and for now she has chosen to be in that particular relationship. But as I tell her, at least she is the Saturday girl (I envision there are Girl Sundays through Girl Fridays, since he keeps to the schedule so well, and I think Saturday would be the number one position since it is the best date night.)

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
I'd have jack slapped him for not being there while fighting breast cancer. But that's just me.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Yesitsme:
You sound very wise and have a good grasp on the things you want and need for yourself. Unfortunately for your friend, she doesn't have the same grasp.
By the time I was 19 years old, I had been through so much relationship trauma and drama, people would call me in the middle of the night for marital advice, and I had never been married.

Women either learn or they don't that they have to put what they want and need first and foremost, otherwise, there is no point in having needs and wants. And for the most part NOT to settle in relationships for less than they deserve, and if they do, they will come to believe that what they are getting is all they deserve.

Someone can only make you feel inferior if you allow it.

I have been abused physically, mentally and emotionally. I have been left while pregnant. I have been made to feel that I am nothing without a man. I have been made to feel that I am a peice of dirt. I have been made to feel that I am a failure. Why? Because I allowed it.

It comes down to self respect. Many women who you see having their emotions trampled on have none. They settle, they let someone else dictate how their lives and relationships will go. They settle. They settle. They settle. You must be able to stand on your own if it comes to that, and know when it has come to that. Women need to have the strength to do what is best for them, even if that means walking away from the one they love.

Strength comes from breaking the cycle. Breaking the cycle comes from strength.

You have to jump into that somewhere, or things will never change.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Oh, and Mocha, ITA with that. That is low and heartless.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
Wow. Some women accept all kind of excuses for men's poor behavior. I don't understand why they put up with it other than low self-esteem or thinking they can't live without a man. It makes me sad to hear of women settling for less than they deserve.

Yesitsme
Member

08-24-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 4:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yesitsme a private message Print Post    
You are exactly right, Escapee. I hate that you have had to go through all of that, but it sounds like you came out of it with a great idea of who you are and with no self-pity. Yea you!

I took my friend' side at first and thought that he was a problem, but after a while I started to ask myself "What piece is missing here?" I'm not really into the victim thing. Yes, things happen that you can't control, but you get your power from choosing what to do next. You're only a victim when you don't a choice. I have the hardest time with this friend....she is about 10 years older than me and sometimes it floors me that she could get into her mid 50s and have no ability to see that life doesn't just happen to you. I could see this guy meet another woman, and all of a sudden have his idea of the horrors of marriage change and my friend get thrown aside (I've seen that happen before in similar relationships.) But you know, I don't know how sympathetic I would be then. I have a feeling my "you are not a victim" side would come out! I'm the kind of friend that would say "Yeah, you were stupid and we did tell you that this could happen. Suck it up!" In love, of course!

And I am with you on the cancer thing. To me there would be no excuse acceptable for not supporting me fully during that time. But you know....once again I have come to see that some women do not require men to be there during those hard times, so they aren't. I had another friend that went through a bone marrow transplant and her husband and daughter came to the hospital once a week to visit. That was all. I thought he was a horrible person until I met him, and saw he wasn't a bad guy and that he did care about her. But I also saw a dynamic in their relationship where she tried to shelter her family from any unpleasantness and always dealt with trouble for them. Consequently, when she told them they didn't have to drive down to visit every day (the hospital was over an hour from where they lived), they didn't. Once again, it is that age-old rule that people don't know what your needs are unless you tell them. If you wait for them to discover them on their own, you will often be disappointed.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 4:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Hey, the only reason I came out of it was because I chose not to settle into making the same mistakes twice. I look back on those times and it makes me angry, but in a healthy way. I am not angry with the men who put me through it, I am angry at myself for allowing it.

So here is the rule you give to your friend next time she wants to use you as her emotional sounding board (which is actually an emotional punching bag)

"if you aren't going to do something about it, then you are not allowed to complain."

Don't play the "guess what's wrong with me game" with anyone or for anyone.

Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 5:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Women either learn or they don't that they have to put what they want and need first and foremost, otherwise, there is no point in having needs and wants. And for the most part NOT to settle in relationships for less than they deserve, and if they do, they will come to believe that what they are getting is all they deserve.

There are a lot of men who need to learn the same thing! That is good advice for everyone.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 5:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Sorry, I didn't mean to exclude men in that. But, I am sure it goes without saying that it's for everyone. The only time that isn't the case, it's when children are involved. Then, first and foremost, you do what is best for your children, and you'll learn that it was what was best for you in the long run.

Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Friday, January 06, 2006 - 7:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
And what is best for your children? Is it best to struggle thru a less than happy marriage, because you need two incomes to survive these days, for the children, OR is it best to get divorced?

Modern questions. 1. Settling 2. What's best for the children.

That once a week arrangement ...and I'm to believe the guy is NOT married...seems unbelieveable to me. I agree with Brenda's remarks...and Mocha's and a lot of the others.

I suppose if the only way you can get a little bit of "love" in this world is once a week, well, I guess you'd take it. Everyone's different. I guess I would push for more and if rejected I would not understand why and break it off. That's just me.

Love what Escapee said about complaining. I have a male friend who does just that about his health. I offer solutions. He has a "Christian Scientist" attitude and rejects my thoughts.

I guess he just wants to complain and that he doesn't want my male help to fix things. He wants to do it his way. It sure does drive me nuts though. As a male we are trained to try to fix things, not just listen. Frustrating.


Newman
Member

09-25-2004

Friday, January 06, 2006 - 7:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Newman a private message Print Post    
We didn't really talk about "settling" as thoroughly as I would like.

Q: how can you have a romantic relationship with someone and not want to live with them full time, not want to be around them as much as possible?

I wish I could wrap myself around that concept. Maybe it is THE BEST SOLUTION.

I don't see many good marriages or one's that I'm jealous of or envious of. When I talk to people they tell me that the husband watches his tv programs downstairs while the wife is upstairs watching hers. I hear that countless times.

I would think that if you chose your "soul mate" you'd have similar interests and be watching the tube together, making wise cracks, observations, comments, and so forth.

Again, romantic fantasies clash with reality.

Maybe men and women aren't meant to live together. We're just so different. If you don't want kids or if the kids are grown and gone, then why live together? Just come together once a week for sex and affection and warmth and then separate Sunday morning? Modern life?? Stay in touch by emails throughout the week? Why doesn't this sound appealing to me? Maybe it really is the best solution?

I guess I get thrown when I hear the psycho babble that you need at least 4 hugs a day for good emotional health. How do you get that over the internet? (((( ? ))))

But do married couples in a good relationship, after the initial excitement is over, get 4 hugs a day? I bet not...


Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Friday, January 06, 2006 - 7:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Goddessatlaw a private message Print Post    
Newman, I nip that complaining crap in the bud by asking flat out whether they want advice or whether they're just intending to complain. If nothing else, it causes the person to consider why they're unloading on me. Griping once or twice about a subject is no big deal. Griping endlessly about crap when the griper has made to move to improve the situation is a whole nother ball game. Makes me crazy.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Friday, January 06, 2006 - 7:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Actually, you can shut up most chronic complainers by just agreeing with them. I like to use "Wow! Sucks to be you!"

Or if you like them, the more sympathetic approach works. You know, I really care about you, but it frustrates me sometimes to hear there is so much wrong with your life, and there is nothing I can do to help you.

Attempts to fix or offer solutions generally don't work anyway. Some of the best unsolicited advice I ever got was to not offer advice unless someone specifically asked for it.

Settling: I would never settle. Been there, done that, regretted it. At the same time, my life is VERY full and complete - with or without a relationship. I think my movement away from the vision of living together may have come to terms with the reality that most people that want that much of your time really want to control it.


It would be nice if the fairy tales were true, and I know of a few relationships where the couples do spend a great deal of time together and it works for them. It just never worked for me in any of my relationships. But then, as a friend once told me, "hon, there's nothing wrong with you except you choose badly. You have a broken picker." :-)

Secretsmile
Member

08-19-2002

Friday, January 06, 2006 - 8:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Secretsmile a private message Print Post    
I disagree with that analysis of a good relationship.

I tend to look at my marriage with the analogy of town houses that have multiple connecting doorways. I have my own "house", he has his own "house", I need to keep my foundations strong and shored up, I can remodel, update, even add on, as part of my own growing process. I also need to recognize his need to do the same.

I'm not sure if we are "soul mates", I know that I would never love another person in the world like I love him. I know that nothing is worth not working at keeping those connecting "doors" open. Sometimes, he's needed to use me to brace himself up during the reconstruction of his life, as I've needed him for the same.

We spend a lot of time together, we touch often, maybe not 4 hugs, a hand on the shoulder, a quick squeeze of the hand, all of which I suppose is equal to the physical need to touch as a hug. But my life is mine, and his life is his, we don't enjoy all the same things, we don't back the same political parties, rather than use this as an excuse to bicker we enjoy the challenge of seeing the other's point of view. We enjoy some tv programs together, yet not all.

I don't think we have to be the same person to be compatible. I think having our own interests is a healthy sign that we are both works in progress and secure enough in our relationship to allow the other person to explore those hobbies.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, January 06, 2006 - 9:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
I don't buy into "soul mates"

When I say settling, I mean giving into less than what you deserve and/or need. Everyone has emotional, mental and physical necesseties. Some of which they can only get from another person. If you decide to go without those necesseties in order to be with a person, then you are settling.

Relationships take work. IMO, you have to go into a relationship prepared to give 90% and only get back 10%. It is rare for a relationship to be 50/50. A major relationship killer, say it with me, is lack of communication.

Here is what I mean: Your significant other does something to make you angry or hurts your feelings. He/She asks "what's wrong" and the biggest relationship killer is this simple word

"nothing"

but you still brood about it, act angry or upset, and when they ask, you say "nothing".

I am guilty of this, everyone is. The problem with "nothing" is NOTHING gets resolved and this "nothing" evolves into the next time you are angry or upset. It builds and carries over from time to time to time.

Even if it's not a big deal, it can escalate into one when it's clustered together with other times. And there is going to be times.

Example: My Dh was late getting home the other night after being over at a friends. I was dealing with DD, a messy house, fatigue, etc. I just needed help, but managed to get everything done before he got home. So naturally when he got home, I was at the high end of my stress spectrum, and I was upset that he was late. He knew I had things to do and I was tired and I figured he was just inconsiderate. When he got home, I was almost in tears and he asked what was wrong. And I said "nothing" and he said ok, and walked into the other room and I broke down crying. I was angry for the rest of the evening because apparently there was something wrong and he just chose to ignore it. But folks, I told him "nothing". So, I have no right to complain because I wasn't doing anything about it.

I was playing the guess what's wrong with me game. A big big big relationship killer.

Why do people do this? To avoid a big confrontation over something that doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It doesn't have to be a big confrontation. I could have said I am angry because I had a lot to do and I needed your help and you are late getting home.

Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
The thing that astonishes me is that many couples know so little about each other and how their partner thinks.

We were visiting my cousin and they produced a “relationship” type game. I can’t remember the name of it but basically you and your partner were asked a question and then you were supposed to predict your partner’s answer. There were three couples playing and all of us had been married for at least ten years.

Let me tell you, these people were clueless about each other. My wife and I won the game by so much it was embarrassing.

I find it amazing how people can be together all those years and yet not know each other.