Author |
Message |
Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 8:04 pm
Max, I'm with you. Don't get it at all. Priorities?? The kids need you when they're young. They don't want to hang out with you as much when they're 16! All I can think is his job wasn't very good and he thought he could join the Army and get GI benefits, education benefits, or something. Still...
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 8:07 pm
It is a personal decision of course, but I always find it amazing how some people will place far greater importance on their work than they will on their family's well being. I'm not sure what makes them do it?
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 9:31 pm
Maybe he thinks he'd be more comfortable at work than at home. Maybe he didn't want to be with his wife anymore? Raising the kids by himself was ok, but he didn't want to share the duty with his wife??
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:53 am
Who knows. <sigh> I don't know them well. He's very quiet and she's more outgoing. They seem to be very much in love and the kids dote like crazy on both of them. Great kids, btw. I used to be in choir with her, and I have heard her talk about how they both feel a sense of duty to "protect America" following 9/11. So misguided and misled. <sigh again>
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 6:11 am
A lot of people tend to work very long hours because "their company or department can't get along without them". I'm not just talking about someone who is a Doctor or a Vice-President or something along that line. I'm also talking about someone doing clerical work at a company that employs thousands of people. Despite the fact that the company has been around for decades and they have thousands of employees, people somehow think that their area couldn't function without them. For that matter if the President of the company keeled over, most companies would continue to roll merrily along! Few people are irreplacable in that sense. I was talking to my Cousin the other day and she was saying that she has to work twelve-hour days because they can't manage without her. My response was, "Well they better start figuring out a way to do it, because aren't you retiring in a year!?!?" It's also interesting how much emphasis our culture places on what job a person does. Inevitably, when people meet, one of the first questions after a brief chit chat is: "So, what work do you do?". People here almost introduce themselves with their work and their work forms a huge part of their identity. Given all of the above, I wonder how Baby Boomers are handling or will handle their impending retirement? And, why do people more and more seem to be putting emphasis on their work over other things like recreational or family activities and family relationships?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 6:33 am
Newman, of course we all think we are right. If we didn't think we were 'right' about something, we'd change our minds. But just try to keep in mind that your son is just as convinced that he is right as you are convinced that you are right. That's where the problem lies. We want people to see how *right* we are, but we are rarely willing to try to see how *right* they are. That doesn't work very well in relationship. You don't have to approve of his decision. You can approve that he is his own man, doing what HE believes in. Just as you are. He's more like you than you think. 
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 9:30 am
Jimmer said, "It's also interesting how much emphasis our culture places on what job a person does." Boy, ain't that the truth! I remember when I first got laid off, this was the hardest part for me. We tend to define ourselves by what we do. It took me a while to reframe being laid off so that I said, "My job lost me" rather than "I lost my job." That simple turn of phrase made a big difference in how I felt about it and helped me get more comfortable with not being in the mainstream anymore. Now, I usually say, "I do a lot of things," which is true. I've been guilty in the past of having that "they can't get along without me" attitude. Employers love that! But early on, I had a mentor get the message into my thick head that I would never be able to get ahead if I really was irreplaceable. He told me I should always be training my replacement so that I would be free to advance and he was right. Most employers will take full advantage of people who "give it their all" and really don't pay a lot of attention to balance in the employee's life. Sometimes you get lucky and have a manager who realizes that an employee who's personal life isn't allowed to be in some kind of balance with his/her work life will eventually burn out. Managers like that will urge employees to NOT make the company the center of their existence -- at least not every day. The older I get, the more I think work is a means to an end, not an end in itself. It's part of who I am, but it doesn't define me.
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Wargod
Moderator
07-16-2001
| Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 9:56 am
My mom always asks Darren when she thinks he's working too much, "When you die, do you think people are going to sit around and comment on what a great employee you are?" He always grins and says something along the lines of yeah, his bosses will, but that one question seems to drive home the fact that he has been putting in too many hours and we start to see him at home more. His job is odd. They can go weeks without doing a minute of OT then they get a huge order in, or more often than not, a bunch of huge orders and work 65 hour work weeks for weeks on end. There's no real balance during those OT weeks, they have to work til the orders out and if that means 4 12 hour days in a row, followed by a 10 hour day and then another 8 hour day well thats the way it is. The balance, I think, comes in on the weeks they're not working like that. He makes a bigger point to spend time with the kids doing things they enjoy, everything from fishing to rolling around on the floor in tickle wars or helping with homework. A date night for us where he's not so tired he's ready to climb in bed at 7:30 pm. I will say he's got a damn good group of bosses. He's doing everything he can to advnace in the company, gives it his all, and in return they do everything they can to help him advance. If he wants it, they put him in charge of a committe, toss a project his way, or send him to class, all things he has to do to advance. Most of their middle and upper management is people who started out in the same job he did and they tend to cultivate and train people who show they're willing to do the job for advancement.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:12 pm
I've never understood the workaholic thing. My dad was one when I was growing up...probably because he had 5 kids and one income most of the time. I always vowed it would not be me. I don't work long hours unless it is absolutely necessary for a short period of time...and I seem to advance as fast or faster than those who spend all of their time working. Max, I think you are right...if you aren't replaceable, you'll stay in that spot a long time. I've also found it is good to be a bit demanding, just not too demanding. That I got after a few years of observing my former company's dynamics and it was a valuable lesson. I started a new job around the first of March and saw quickly that there were parts of it I hated. When asked how I felt about things, I told them honestly (good and bad), and now they are looking for ways to give me projects and tasks that are more enjoyable to me and not so confining. And I appreciate it!
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 5:39 am
The American work ethic. Hard work is it's own reward. When I have time I'll go up and play catch up on the reading... At the post office the employees who bust their butts are valued. They are in the elite clique. These are the ones who are naturally gifted at the job AND who will skip lunch and skip breaks to appear even faster than everybody else. I'm sure I could be faster too if I skipped my 30 minute lunch and just ran all day long too. It's insane. Peer group pressure is part of it too. One of the elites will look at me, with scorn and derision, that superior look, the parental judging look, and ask me why I need overtime today (he doesn't)? Well, maybe I'm just not as fast as you. Should I go home and kill myself? That's the feeling. If you ask for overtime you are a slug. Nothing has changed in the 20 years I've been at my post office. They seem to think it takes just as much time to deliver 1000 pieces of mail as it does 2000 pieces. Doesn't matter if the volume is light or heavy. It just defies common sense...
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 5:53 am
Jobs and work. Good issues. Good posts... I know myself I'll ask someone, at a party, what they do. It's a judging question, sure, but I find nothing wrong with it. What are you supposed to talk about with a perfect stranger? I find that most people have a hard time making good conversation. They are only good at talking about work. That really gets boring unless you're in the same job. Same with skiing and golf. If you're not a skiier or a golfer, yawn... Same with people who have kids. That's their life. That's what they talk about. It's ok for a little while. We've all been kids or had them at THAT age; so we can relate. But there has got to be other things to talk about, no? That is one of the things I liked about the PO for me. When I punched out, I left the job there. Didn't have to correct papers at home. Didn't have to worry about sales numbers or other problems that most people take home with them. I was free to pursue the stuff that actually interested me, like sports or current events or movies or friends or life... I think the French had the right idea. Didn't they try to scale back on the 40 hour work week? I like balance. Try to balance work and play and family and friends. It's not an easy goal. Balance. Going for a walk with a friend or a book on tape, instead of spending all day behind the computer, writing opinions or chatter. Balance. Some internet friends and some "real" friends. Balance...
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 4:28 pm
Balance is the key. And it's sometimes difficult, though I think life gets incredibly harried if it is not in balance. I like an underlying calm, so I try to keep things in check. I'm fine with people asking me about work and I definitely ask them. I find it to be something interesting about people. Where do they spend their days and what do they think about it? So many interesting jobs that I never even thought about someone doing. Some hate their jobs, which interests me. Starting this new job there have already been days when I hated it...which is normal for me (I always have days like that when I start a new job), but I guarantee that if most days were like that I wouldn't stay at it. Life is too short and there are too many interesting jobs to do. I'm dying about the 2 weeks vacation, though. It's better than it could be....I also have 5 personal days. Still, I miss having bunches of vacation. But I do like having money in my bank account, so I am not complaining! I will just juggle those vacation days like nobody's business.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 5:02 pm
I don't work. Wonder what kind of judgments come with that? Anyone?
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 5:56 pm
I'd either think you're retired, disabled, or come from money. But it wouldn't matter to me.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:12 pm
When I meet new people it's one of those questions I dread being asked because many people do make judgment calls based on work. "So, what do you do for work?" "I don't work. I'm on disability." "Oh, are you okay? How are you disabled?" "I'm mentally disabled." There's a conversation stopper. LOL But how does one answer those questions without feeling like they have some contagious disease...okay, without feeling judged. Would it be better to say..."It's none of your business?" or "I have PTSD and other things". How does one answer honestly and with any PRIDE when so much emphasis is place on what we DO rather than who we ARE?
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:13 pm
It's fine to ask what someone does. It shows an interest in the other person and helps break the ice and provide tpoics for conversation. The problem isn't so much that others ask; it's more about how we internalize and identify our own identities through what we do. What we do isn't the only thing that makes us who we are, yet that's the first way that we tend to define ourselves. I think everyone works in one way or another. Some work at taking care of themselves physically or mentally due to health issues. Some work their butts off being parents (a job that's highly underpaid and under-rated), some spend hours volunteering to help others in some way, some work taking care of a loved one who needs assistance. I don't know anyone who just sits around twiddling their thumbs all day. (But then, I don't know anyone like the rich kids on "Survival of the Richest," either! ) The answer to the question, "What do you do?" could be as simple or as complex as, "I try to make a difference and appreciate life every day that I'm blessed with it." It doesn't have to be, "I'm an editor," or whatever. It's all in the perspective and the framing we give the question. I really learned that I'm more than my job title. Too bad it took getting laid off for me to do it! 
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:17 pm
I love this Max... ""I try to make a difference and appreciate life every day that I'm blessed with it." People don't always accept that as an answer in the real world. It's easier at TVCH
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:18 pm
you could always say you are a domestic engineer. i mean, you do stay home and take care of your house. so, that would be true. and, you are an artist. you create beautiful greeting cards. that's all anyone really needs to know.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:31 pm
Yup. ITA with CND! Kearie you CREATE AND SELL beautiful, intricate handmade greeting cards, please remember that. You are much more than how you are currently describing yourself. I could tell 'them': Hi, I'm borderline manic depressive, I eat and talk too much, but I have a big heart to match my big mouth. Oh and by the way, I've also been paid over the years to work as a legal receptionist and sr. switchboard operator, AND I've been a published writer for about 25 years, who happens to be married to a great guy who is somewhat moody! LOL
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:38 pm
I am at the age where I have been asked "Are you retired ." I politely say no, I don't want to retire , I enjoy my work. What I am thinking is "do I look that old that I should be retired?" I rarely ask people direct questions unless they have brought up some subject. I think it goes way back to college when I casually asked a friend if she was going to some party or something and she said "Why do you want to know?" Since then, if there is no reason why I would want to know something I don't ask.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:41 pm
Sorry Doc, I find what your friend said to be rude. She didn't have to give you the info you requested, but she could have been more courteous. I would only be that curt with someone if they were seriously out of line. And I don't think your question was out of line at all. Just conversational. I have always found the phrase, Why Do You Want To Know?, to be a putdown. Period.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:51 pm
Thanks Mame, it was a casual question because it was some open school activity but it made me think that maybe there are no casual questions.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:55 pm
I agree...kind of shuts the door to further conversation in a rude way. So DogDoc, whatcha doing tonight? <wink> So I can say I'm an artisan? Woohoo. You guys are so supportive. I think saying things different could make a difference. Never thought of other things to say. And to be honest, I don't know how I define myself. It's not my job, I'm no longer a "single parent" raisng a daughter. I'm not a very good home engineer...I have dust bunnies everywhere. (DogDoc, My step dad is 78 and still working four days a week, 8 hours a day.) He's retired and choses to work too. My mom and him inheired a good chunk of money that is plenty to see them live better than well for the rest of their lives. But Ken has to work because he'ld go bonkers staying home. I think Dogdoc is lucky that she loves her job.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 7:25 pm
I think what Kearie is saying rings true. People today tend to measure people far more on what they do for a living than they used to in the past. I think it comes from a lack of social contact. It's an "easy" question to ask and it is an "easy" standard to evaluate. And unfortunately, some people do make judgements about it. Personally, I think this isn't a good trend. LOL – Even when people say they are retired, they don't often leave it at that. They inevitably say what they are retired from doing. As Kearie suggested, it is much more difficult to define oneself based on something other than work. It's more complicated and today at least people don't feel comfortable doing it or hearing about it. It takes more time to explain and more importantly more time to understand and that is something that many people seem to be lacking – time.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 7:30 pm
Jimmer, I've known plenty of retired people who define themselves by their hobbies and interests, now that they have the time for them. I have a friend in her 60's who learned line-dancing, and another who is a part-time piano teacher and she's 70's. I'm sure once my dh retires (if ever!!!) he'll define himself as a tournament speed-chess player!
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