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Lancecrossfire
Animoderator
07-13-2000
| Monday, March 13, 2006 - 11:06 pm
Newman, I completely understand your comment about someone saying they want the truth and not a yes man--yet when you try it, they get bothered. Sometimes a person needs to know what they asked for, and not complain when it's given to them. As Jack said, a lot of people can't handle the truth. It doesn't matter if they tell it to themse;ves or a friend says it. There are those who just really can't handle it. I don't know if your friend is that way or not. I like that you are being yourself It's ok to make adjustments for people, but it does not good to be anyone but yourself. After all, he became your friend for who you really are--and being willing to share that with him. I think support to a friend can come in many forms. What we give for support and what they want won't always match up--I think it's very hard to be spot on 100% over the course of a true friendship. If each party does their best and is willing to communicate and trust each other, then the friendship should be a solid one. I think any age group will be exposed to a lot of the same things in the big picture way. The same popular things, the same advances, the same politics in power, the same over all country social climate. From that we can better relate to someone who was hit hard by the depression. But what we do with it all--that is the key. Newman, I think when people give advice, any of the three approach can be taking place--just depends on the people and the situation. I believe all have been done. As for the name of the thread, I look for the name since I'm used to it, however for me it's the content that has been of high value.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, March 13, 2006 - 11:06 pm
I find that, for me, what I would do and what I might suggest to someone else (should they ask) may be very different.. or not.. really depends on the person and their situation.
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Wendo
Member
08-07-2000
| Monday, March 13, 2006 - 11:18 pm
How was Elvis's death embarassing?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, March 13, 2006 - 11:30 pm
Pool of vomit. Bathroom. Possibly on the toilet. Sad end for a talented guy. And of course, sad is the more important description.
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Abby7
Member
07-17-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:22 am
sea, i think i understand what you are saying...but, i don't agree with your post. or how you wrote your post, maybe? from what i've read and seen from family members, when people die many times "such things" just happen. i don't see it as embarrassing. my mom is 85 years old and insists on living alone. when she dies, i hope she just dies "naturally, in her sleep". but if she doesn't...i won't find it embarrassing if she dies in the bathroom, possibly on the toilet, pool of vomit. i think you may mean it's embarrassing because you think he died because of drugs or something...so he ended up dying that way? that's what i'm thinking? and embarrassing?to whom? his family, the public? ???? you also connected the statement w/his talent. don't see the connection. eta: i'm going back to read up on posts i missed in the last 2 hours..i'm sure i missed the point, so i probably should have waited to post. sorry, if that is the case.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:29 am
I think it was sad for such a talented guy to have such poor medical care that he was prescribed meds such that he was hooked on them and, ultimately, it killed him. That's sad. He wasn't even remotely close to the end of a normal lifespan.
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Abby7
Member
07-17-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:33 am
"Remember when Jim Henson, of the Muppets, died at age 54, because he ignored an infection? What an embarassing way to die. I don't want that to happen to any of us." =============== oh, i see why you posted that sea. well, i think i need to start another thread about this. this is something i've wanted to talk about...so interesting it should be mentioned here. it has to do with why one might ignore or not "check-up" on their health. i think i will start something on that soon.
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Abby7
Member
07-17-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:35 am
sea, yes, i agree 100% with you on that. yep, elvis' death, was sad.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 5:10 am
Hmm I actually have nothing to add here.
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:14 am
You people sadden me greatly. I can't believe that ya'll believe that Elvis is dead!
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:18 am
Yep Elvis is dead. Tupac is not dead. 
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:49 am
my db was born in dec 63 and would die if anyone suggested he was an Xer! he and all his friends well tell you in a heartbeat that they are boomers.
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Grannyg
Member
05-28-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 8:07 am
I'm still trying to figure out what I am. Some how I don't think Juju and I are any of these things. Boomer's, X's or whatever.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 8:58 am
Elvis' illness was embarrassing. I remember seeing him with my best friend on New Year's Eve in Pittsburgh just a coupla years before he died. He couldn't remember the words to his most popular songs and had to read them off little note cards. He was often out of time with the music. All I could do was feel sorry for him and vaguely disappointed....
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:07 am
your best friend went out with Elvis????
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:09 am
LOL, bad phrasing. My best friend and I went to a concert of his. 
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Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:22 am
well i can play here. i am smack dab in the middle of the boomer generation. i just wanted to comment on newman and springer's remarks a few posts back. i am reminded of "men are from mars, women are from venus" where men seem to think when someone is talking about their problems a man assumes they are looking for a solution. obviously that is not always the case. sometimes people just need an ear and a shoulder. ETA I thought the boomer generation was 46-66. Guess I am not quite in the middle. Though I do remember it being crowded
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Jeep
Member
10-17-2001
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:19 am
First of all, I am definately a Boomer. I fit this thread to a T. I'm living alone and changing every day, it seems. So, I'm in favor of leaving the name of this thread as it is. Advice. Everybody's covered it pretty well. It's a real hot potato. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. The trick is to "read between the lines" to determine if your friend really wants advice, sympathy, agreement or just a shoulder to cry on. Not an easy task. With my divorce, the one I didn't want, I was on the "getting" side of advice. A lot. Mostly from my co-workers, who saw what a mess I was. I heard what they said and would usually just say "yeah, yeah, I know". I knew what I had to do.....I just didn't want to do it. Sometimes, it helped to hear someone else say it out loud. It sort of validated what plans I had in mind. And then, several times I went to lunch with the office guys and said I was going to do this or that and they would collectively yell "NO"! LOL I got it from all directions. But in the end, they were a big help. They kept me on track (although I refused to go to a counselor after the 2 fiascos with the ex) and also kept me from making a fool of myself several times. I can look back and be grateful now. Which brings me to two questions today. Advice is welcome! LOL First, there are many suggestions re: giving advice to friends in need. But what about someone like me, who had no clue that hubby was cheating. Would you tell an unsuspecting friend, sister, parent that their spouse was cheating? If I had had a heads up, I might not have been so blindsided by the ex and maybe softened the blow and maybe avoided some of the abuse. Thoughts? Second, how would you handle this? Last night I ran into one of the ex's 7 sisters and her hubby. They are much older and have both been ill. We were on opposite sides of the fruit display. When I looked up and saw them, I raised my hand and waved and loudly (she's almost deaf) said "hi, how are you guys". She said nothing, he barely said hi and they acted like it hurt to speak to me. We only said a few meaningless words and I thought it better to just go on. But I tell you, I wanted to jump over the fruit right there and say, don't turn your nose up at me. It's your brother that did all the nasty stuff and I'm the one that had to take antibotics to get rid of the filth he brought back home. Has his ugly wh--- staked out her place in the family yet? I was really mad. Why should I be treated like crap? Of course, the ex is the baby and can do no wrong.....not. So how would you handle situations like this? It'll happen again, I guarantee it. He has a very big family and it's a small town. What kind of realationship do the other divorced people here have with the ex's family. I have no kids, so no connection there. It just doesn't seem right to be avoided by a family I've been part of for 25 years. I don't expect invitations to dinner, just talk to me when we meet by chance. All this is new to me, living alone, changing my habits. I think I'm starting to like it, but things like this still get under my skin.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:29 am
My mom loves my ex, he can do no wrong in her eyes so I can't help you there. Lol I would've jumped over the fruit and said exactly what you wanted to Jeep. On the other hand the ex's mom never liked me so I could care less if I see her in the street which wouldn't happen as she's in Michigan as well as his other family. So sorry I really can't help with this one. For your first question? Kinda hard. I wouldn't want to say anything cause that would end the friendship we'd have, not from my part but from theirs. I've seen it happen too many times. I think I would try a more covert way or anonomous way.
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Marysafan
Member
08-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:46 am
I wouldn't tell. It's not my job. The person doesn't want to hear it, and I've heard tell people shoot the messenger. (Okay maybe not shoot, but avoid thereafter). Divorces are tough on everyone. They don't just break up marriages, they break up families. In some families, (and your spouse's family sounds like they could be one of these) any positive interaction with the ex, is considered a "betrayal" of sorts. So the order of the day, is no contact. All situations vary. There is no cut and dried way of dealing with it. But if they have given you the impression that their choice is to pretend like you no longer exist...then acknowledge it's their loss and move on. It's the whole "blood is thicker than water" deal, and there is nothing that you can say or do that will change that.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:04 pm
quote:Grannyg: I'm still trying to figure out what I am. Some how I don't think Juju and I are any of these things. Boomer's, X's or whatever.
I am a card-carrying boomer, Grannyg. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll, war protesting (Nam, of course), defying the pigs, peace and love, hippies, Summer of Love, Scarborough Fair, Beatles, Woodstock!, don't trust anybody over 30. Well, maybe not so much drugs, but everybody else I knew was heavy into them. Of course, now I am just a vague-thinking ageing boomer, but I can still slap the snot out of Glenn. <slaps the snot out of Glenn>
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:12 pm
I tell depending on how well I know the person. I might hedge my words slightly, but I would still tell. Maybe something like, I'm very uncomfortable saying something abuot this, but you are my friend and I care about your well being. Then state factually what you have seen. No conjecture, supposition, accusation - simply a relaying of the facts. As for running into the ex's family, I was always polite and personable, but respectful. I see them occasionally at events involving my son, and at first most of them were quite rigid. But over time, just like with my ex's new wife, I think I taught them to be polite and make small talk, because that's simply how I conducted myself. If the conversation ever turned to my ex, I would simply change the subject. I think once they realized I wasn't going to go off about what a smuck he was, they relaxed quite a bit.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:18 pm
Jeep I can so relate. My husband's family havent called or contacted my son or me since before the holidays when 1) his sister asked for my husbands car and 2) I told her to get a job after she asked for $4,000. They haven't asked how my son is, my husband's brother who is a millionaire and was ceo of a Universally well known company, has not once since the funeral asked how we are doing (although I would sleep under the 59th street bridge before I would take a red cent from any of them). They have treated us like absolute pariahs and I was married for 25 years like you. I suspect that they avoid us because they think we are going to ask something of them. How I handled it is I just wrote them off. Don't ever intend to see or contact them again, dont need them, better off without people who were "dragged up" as opposed to being raised. So if I were you, I would continue to wave and say hello and then forget about them when they are out of eyesight. Regarding telling someone that her husband is cheating, I would caution against it. It would be a case of shoot the messenger and sooner or later she is going to find out and then you can be there to support her.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:23 pm
Jeep, do you like your ex's family? If I liked them I would be nice to them and eventually their hurt feelings would be forgotten. I'm sure they are only looking at their brother's side but you just keep on being the sweet person that I know you are just from reading your posts. Now if I didn't like them, then I would as much as possible avoid saying anything to them. When my sil calls, she always ask to speak to dh and never asks how I'm doing. It used to bother me, but now I'm just happy she doesn't want to talk to me.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:48 pm
Jeep, in regards to your first question (do you tell a friend if you think his/her partner is cheating?), it depends. First, suspicions aren't enough to warrant me saying much -- although I might mention that I had noticed the person having a good time with so-and-so and see what the reaction is. Second, if I had proof (like I'd seen the person kissing someone else), then there are two possibilities. If both partners in the relationship are friends of mine, I'd start talking with the one I saw doing the extra-curricular activities. I'd express my dismay at the way they were disrespecting themselves and their partner and ask for an explanation. I'd probably give them a timeframe for letting their partner know what happened or I'd be speaking to him/her myself. There's no way I'm going to uphold their deception of my friend (who happens to be the innocent partner). If I'm not friends with the cheater, then I'd go to the partner who is my friend and say something. I'd probably start with questions and then, as Karuuna said, state what I saw and leave it there. I've been in this situation to some degree in the past and it's not fun. Sometimes friendships get lost, sometimes not. But I cannot and will not be put in the position of lying to a friend to "protect" him or her. I just don't see a good ending for that scenario, either, so I'd rather deal with it up front. Now, I have had a situation where I suspected something was going on, but had no real proof. It was more an intuition that was proved right when my friend called and said she and her husband were separating. The first thing I said was, "Is it because of ___?" And it was. (Good ending to that story - they went through counseling and after being separated about a year, got back together. Their marriage is stronger now than it was before -- and she got a gorgeous saffire ring as the "I was a real jerk and I'm sorry" gift. ) As for the second question, on the one occasion when I almost ran into my ex-husband's mother at Costco, I turned tail and left the store before she saw me. Chances are she would have taken my side since she never had much good to say about her kids, but I didn't want to go there. I think that being polite is all you're obligated to do. The rest is up to them. The anger you felt is to be expected because you've been so hurt by the situation. But ultimately, it's YOUR anger and YOUR issues and not theirs. Who knows what they were thinking? It could be that they were so mortified by your ex's behavior that they were terribly embarrassed to be near you because they had no idea what to say. It could be that they are just as angry with him as you are and they have no idea how to express it to you. 
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