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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Monday, March 27, 2006 - 8:58 pm
I have on occasion (ok, a lot of times) sent a card to tell someone how I feel about them. The feelings would go unspoken if it wasn't for the cards. Sometimes I will search for a specific kind of card, but other times I will just browse and come upon what I need. (These are always nice cards never anything injurious). This could be a way for a parent to reach a child or a child to reach a parent when verbal communication is difficult.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:27 pm
What a sweet story, Seamonkey. I'll have to listen harder to what my older son likes to talk about. It's mostly school, work, and current events (sort of, he'll respond to something I'll bring up). Dogdoc, that's a sweet gesture too. I love getting cards. Hardly ever happens anymore, since the advent of email. I think I must come across as intimidating to them, or judgmental, or what's the word, forboding. I don't think my daughter would ever open up to me while she lives in the same state as my ex-wife. I think she pretty much sides with the Ex, since the divorce. I have doubts about that one ever being "close". There's a Bonnie Raitt song, "You can't make somebody love you". Some such lyric. True.
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:51 pm
"'Cause I can't make you love me if you don't. You can't make your heart feel something it won't. Here in the dark in these lonely hours I will lay down my heart and I'll feel the power but you won't. No, you won't. 'Cause I can't make you love me if you don't."
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Max
Moderator
08-12-2000
| Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:55 pm
But, Newman, the Bonnie Raitt lyric you might want is this one, Nick of Time: "When did the choices get so hard, there's so much more at stake Life gets mighty precious When there's less of it to waste Ooh ooh ooh ooh Scared to run out of time." That's sort of what this whole thread is about, isn't it? 
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 9:09 am
Great lyrics to both those songs and very appropriate.
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Merrysea
Member
08-13-2004
| Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:05 am
Newman, don't just write your daughter off. If you think you come across as being intimidating or judgmental, you should change the way you interact with her. I always thought of myself as daddy's girl, but for most of my life, I wasn't very close to my father because of his drinking. But when I decided to leave my husband, my dad really came through for me. He called (I think it was the first time in my life that he had ever called me!) and said that he didn't want me to be in that house any longer than I had to be, and offered me money to move out (which was huge, because I had never asked my parents for anything once I moved out of their house - and I paid for most of my own things before that). We spent the next year and a half getting to know each other before he died, and I can't even begin to express what his reaching out did for me. Don't let issues between you and your ex stand in the way of your relationship with your kids. Talk to them, but don't ever put them in a position where they feel they have to defend their mom.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:23 am
Thanks Max. I love both of those songs. You make me want to dig out my Bonnie Raitt tapes. Good lyrics, both. I never did transition much to cd's. I have a big collection of cassettes, mostly favorite songs, some albums entirely of course. You give good advice, Merrysea. I don't come from a Norman Rockwell painting. The two boys hate their Mom, and the girl loves her (I think). My older son is outgoing and trying to mend fences with her. I guess that is a good thing. The younger son will have nothing to do with her. The siblings don't talk to each other. The older one tries to talk to the others, but he comes across too "bossy". He means well, but they don't like his big brother attitude. It just gets back to distance, and simple things like trying to figure out what to talk about. The younger son screens my calls and only contacts me when he wants something. My daughter sends sweet cards of thanks after I send her large chunks of money. I know I should, and I want to put more effort in to my adult children. Sometimes I feel like I don't have any kids at all. Feelings rule. They're distant. We're not a close family. We were a broken family. The two boys sided with me and my daughter sided with her Mom. It's sad, but kids are resillient. They've all landed on their feet. They've stayed off the front page of the newspaper! They seem to be healthy (although I worry about my daughter's mental health). I'm not sure they're happy. But who's happy anymore, anyway... Or, what I meant to say was when I was 28 I don't recall being "happy". I wasn't unhappy. I just WAS. I was living my life in Colorado and my folks were back in Buffalo and I didn't speak to them all that often either. It was ok.
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Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:00 pm
LOL....Newman, of course anything I say sounds like a chick said it. I didn't mean that as a script, but as a way to possibly jar some memories in you. And I can't believe most of your memories were bad....how can living with little kids be bad all the time? They are quite often delightful. Maybe you think to think on it more....maybe the last few years of the marriage are coloring a lot of the years before that. You are the dad. Personally I believe you have the major responsibility to set the tone of the relationship. They are still in their selfish years....you should have moved beyond that by now (and I think you have for the most part or you wouldn't care.) My feeling is that you should keep actively trying until the day you die... respecting them and their desires the whole time, of course. At least your daughter does sweetly acknowledge your gifts of cash....many girls her age would just accept it as something you owe them. And I admit it....on occasion I screen my parents calls. It doesn't mean that I am not close to them. It just means that sometimes they can be emotionally draining because I care so much! I hate that your kids felt the need to take sides in the divorce. How sad for them. Probably you still feel in pain and raw because you have not dealt with it. The scabs haven't formed. From what I know about you, I suspect that you haven't forgiven yourself for who you were as a husband. And from how you speak of her, I also think you haven't forgiven your wife. You need to do that....for your own sake. And as for them being happy, maybe that is the incentive you need to work on being completely happy in your life. You are your kid's built-in role model. Finding someone at church....oh, don't get me started. A topic for another day.
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:05 pm
Yesitsme, its hard to forgive my Ex. Impossible. When we got married I was worried how I would be with the kids. As it turned out, they were the easy part. She was so difficult to live with. Expectations. You would expect a school teacher to be good with children, wouldn't you? That certainly was MY expectation. I was wrong. We never should have gotten married. A bad fit. You are right, though. I should make more calls. I should put out more effort.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:28 pm
The toughest part is not to be judgmental with your kids. I think you have to focus on the end point and grit your way through the intermediate steps. The timing may not be right but you can never be sure when it is going to be right. We all know how it is – we’re having a bad day and then you get that phone call and you just groan and think that you don’t want to talk. That's why it's a shame that they don't email more. I left someone a couple of voicemails and they didn't call back. Then I wrote them one email and they replied at 7:00 AM the next morning. I was commenting to my wife about how crazy that was and she said it wasn't crazy at all. It wasn't like they thought they could call me at 7:00 AM but they could write an email at a time that was good for them. I guess you have to prepare to be a bit rejected but keep trying anyway. Another day may be better. Try not to talk about the past at first – talk about right now and keep it simple. Another thing you can do to make them feel better about you (if you can stand it) is ask them for advice on something. It will make them feel important and useful. Look how good people feel discussing and trying to answer these questions. And, it may be good advice. But brace yourself for hearing something that you might not want to hear. The way I look at it is that it never hurts to try and keep trying and never give up. Then you have no regrets – no second thoughts.
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Wargod
Moderator
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:51 pm
Raising hand shamefully, I screen my moms calls too. It's not that I don't want to talk to her, but she lives four minutes away and we see each other a couple times a week. When she calls, she wants to talk and talk and talk and sometimes I just don't have the time to talk like that. I don't usually feel guilty about it either, she knows that I'll call back when I get the time or if she leaves a message on the machine saying it's an emergency that I'll pick right up. I was never as close to my step dad as sis was. I loved the man, he was my father in every way but blood and we had absolutely nothing in common. I was lousy in math and science, he was great at it and tried and tried to help me and it always ended in tears. My sis was great with math and science and they'd play all kinds of games and work on math problems or science projects and have a blast. She used to love hanging out with him, didn't matter what he was doing. She was always his little helper, fixing cars or home improvements she was right there with him while I had no interest in that kind of stuff. The one thing we did together was throw darts (he'd taught me when I was maybe 10 or 11) and during our many games there was usually no real conversation going on cuz we just didn't have much to talk about. This went on for years, until I was an adult and Caleb was born. Then the funniest thing happened, he discovered he loved being grandpa and we finally had something in common to talk about. When I was on maternity leave he used to make up excuses to come visit the baby. He'd sit there and say something like Darren mentioned a slow drain as he rocked Caleb or sat on the floor playing with him, both of us knew it was just an excuse for him to come play. Our whole relationship changed after that and we found something to talk about. There was a rough period for about six months right after Kota was born that put a strain on that relationship but we got past it and in the four and a half years between the time Caleb was born and step dad died, I learned more about him than I ever had before and he learned more about me. Long winded way of saying Newman, that if you look, eventually you'll find common ground with your kids and it may be something that totally surprises all of you. Jimmer, I have to agree about email being more convienient. I spend a lot of time emailing family who live right here in town and that I see often just because it's more convienient than trying to catch them on the phone when they or I'm not busy. Sometimes it's not only easier but the only way we're going to be able to talk.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 5:41 am
I think some of us are phone people and some are not. I prefer e-mail. My niece insists the best way to talk is on the phone. When she calls, it is long distance and she uses the computer. I hear about half she has to say thanks to static.There is also an annoying echo. Also, the person calling has an agenda and the person receiving the call is unprepared. This could be a big problem if there are issues to be discussed. (Newman, I have a feeling there is a greyhound rescue dog that could use you as a friend).
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Newman
Member
09-25-2004
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 8:24 am
Is this the animal farm? I love dogs, but I'm in this small townhouse with a very small yard. Wouldn't be fair to the dog. I prefer email too. My best friend hates email. It's a style thing. "the person calling has an agenda..." Yep (usually). And sometimes it is inconvenient. Wargod, maybe when and if my kids have kids, then we'd have something to talk about, but still there is that physical distance and I really don't have any experience with small kids, not having adopted them until they were 8. That's why it can be tough. Like you were describing the math and science and fix it thing. I'm just like you. No interest in those areas. My parents loved baseball and passed that love down to us 3 boys. We all still love baseball. It gave us something to talk about. So, naturally, I tried the same with my kids but it didn't catch. Then what do you do? Not easy. Jimmer, that advice thing...I think I screwed up on that too! Asked the oldest for computer buying advice. He gave it. But I ignored it because I just wasn't ready to pull the trigger. Then I just went out to Circuit City and bought a Compaq. I don't think he is going to be too thrilled that I didn't follow his advice. Maybe I'll just tell him that I lost my notes on what he told me to do, something lame like that.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 9:16 am
Lol Newman.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:11 am
My family...my mom, me and my daughter phone just to say we love each other. My daughter often phones while she driving between school and work. I ask her about school, work, her marriage and she asks me how my crafts are doing...how the dogs are doing...if I have a boyfriend. No agendas other than..."I just called to say I love you" Sometimes she calls to get my opinion on something. I don't want her getting breast implants and a lift. DD boobies are suppose to droop a little. Imagine those puppies being perky and pointing straight out. She'll look as weird as Barbie. She knows I'm totally against it but she insists it will help her self-esteem. Her goofy hubby talked her into it. I think he is a rotten hubby and she knows that too. When she asks...I give her my honest opinion. She knows I may disagree with her choices, but I love her and give her the right to make her own mistakes. I don't criticise her when I disagree and I don't hound her to change her mind. She will be a whopping 21 this July. I've never tried to control her choices. And when her choices don't coincide with what I think is best...I let her suffer her consequences. No matter what...bottom line is she knows and is secure in the fact that I love her and will always be here...no matter what. On to the divorce thing. I think it's hard on kids to see their parents divorce at any age. What makes it harder is when the parents bad mouth the other parent to the kids. That is so damaging and forces the kids to take sides. Very wrong. My parents divorced when I was a Junior in high school. Neither of my parents spoke bad about the other. What a blessing. Later in my life I was married to a man who's ex-wife used their kids all the time to deliver mean messages. She made her kids choose sides. She told her kids me and my daughter were the reason they lost their daddy. It was a huge, ugly mess. When I married the above man, both my parents walked me down the aisle...one on each side. Both my step-parents sitting together. No bitterness or hate. And believe me when I say, my mom had every reason to hate.
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Jeep
Member
10-17-2001
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 12:07 pm
Newman, I agree with you that it is hard to forgive the ex, although my situation is different than yours. I thought we had a good life, minor bumps in the road, but it seemed we worked it out well. It was just BAM! right in the face for me when he said he was cheating and then came the violence, etc, etc. I find it hard to forgive him when he expresses no remorse for the things he did to me. I don't care if I was the wicked witch of the west, I really didn't deserve that kind of treatment, no one does. Until I went thru this, I never knew I was capable of complete hate for a person, but that's the way I feel about the ex. So, I have to hand it to all of you that are civil with the ex, especially if they were the rotten apple. I just don't know how I would have handled it if I had had kids to consider. All of you have my admiration for being able to put them ahead of your own feelings. I know it can't be easy. Yesitsme, when God throws that husband thru your roof, do you think you could ask Him for one for me, too? Not a husband, but just a nice guy to share the good time with? LOL About phone calls and emails. I do both. Phone calls let you hear the expression in the other person's voice and sometimes that means a lot. It's easy to mis-read an email because you can't tell if the person is laughing, crying or anything else. I have taken up the lost art of sending cards thru the mail. When my mom was so sick and couldn't get out much, receiving mail was a joy. Even if they were for no other reason but to say hi! So now that I have time, I try to send cards for every occasion and for no reason either. I know I love knowing someone is thinking about me. Besides, I have to keep Newman in business!!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 12:42 pm
I don't like the idea of a guy asking a woman to get breast implants. Personally, I find that unfortunate (looking for a more diplomatic word here) on so many different levels that he would even consider getting her to do it. Of course, someone has every right to do whatever they want personally for whatever reason, though again I don't understand why someone would feel the need to augment themselves in that way. Plus most of the time it looks completely fake. LOL - Jeep. I'm glad you're doing your part to keep Newman employed!
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:32 pm
Jimmer, I don't either and I think it's wrong for her. She used to want a reduction because she is naturally large breasted with a petite body. She now has back problems because of them. I can either lecture her until she's mad...and she will still do what she wants, Or I can express my unhappiness with her decision and move on. Not many kids take parents advice on everything...they all have to make mistakes. I think it's how we handle differences that bring us closer together or tears us farther apart. Personally, I think getting rid of her hubby would build up her self-esteem more than implants will. Oh, by the way...her surgery is next Monday. Sigh.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:58 pm
I would've told her that it's stupid and unnecessary. Isn't this the abusive husband?
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:06 pm
That makes me sad Kearie. Why do you suppose she cares about this guy when there are a lot of nice guys out there for her? That is a question that I have about a lot of couples. Why do people care for people who mistreat them and obviously don’t care about them? And that applies to both men and women in relationships. As far as what you can do about it – I agree that your hands are pretty well tied. You can tell why you think that it is a bad decision, but it is still her decision. Getting her defensive and upset with you won’t help.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:14 pm
Mocha...yes...same abusive hubby.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:17 pm
Ok. Hmph. I'll pray for her.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:30 pm
Jimmer, she is making excuses for him. He didn't mean it. He said he was sorry. He will change. We love each other. We made vows to stay together. He swore to God he wasn't cheating. Etc... She's convinced herself no one else will ever want her because...she's fat, her boobs aren't big enough, she doesn't wear enough make up. Her shirts aren't low cut enough. She's a lousy wife and on and on. That's why she is afraid to leave Jimmer. She 'loves' him. I wish I could call him and give him a piece of my mind...but that won't help her, it could actually put her in more harms way. It's best not to make her defensive. It's hard to say "I support you for trying so hard" and in the next breath say "I support you if you come home...I am here if you need me." All the while praying she stays safe...praying that this marriage will end so she can start to heal." It's hard to support someone when you think their decision is wrong...but with your kids, I think you have to, to maintain a healthy adult relationship.
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:31 pm
LOL Mocha.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:52 pm
It’s a terrible shame that she has such low self-esteem about her appearance. I recall that she looked absolutely lovely in the picture that you posted of her.
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