TVCH FORUMS HOME . JOIN . FAN CLUBS . ABOUT US . CONTACT . CHAT  
Bomis   Quick Links   TOPICS . TREE-VIEW . SEARCH . HELP! . NEWS . PROFILE
Archive through November 18, 2005

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: 2005 Dec. ~ 2006 Feb.: Parenting Place: The Great Santa Claus (and friends) Question: Archive through November 18, 2005 users admin

Author Message
Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 9:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
We have two little girls who are six and four. The other day one of the kids in my six year olds class informed her that the Tooth Fairy wasn’t real and that it was just Mom and Dad.

So she asked me if the Tooth Fairy was real. I countered by saying that I had never seen her, and then she drifted off onto another subject.

But what do you do when your child asks you if Santa Claus is real or is it just Mom and Dad leaving the presents? Do you tell them the truth and ruin their enjoyment or do you fib about it? Or is there some way of getting around the subject without spoiling their fun but not lying either?

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Here's the way I see it:

I can't remember ever really believing in Santa Claus.

I don't feel deprived becuase of it, in fact I felt sorry for kids who did because they thought they didn't get as many presents from their parents as they did from a stranger.

My neice asked me if Santa was real and I told her no. My cousin, her mother got really mad at me for it, and I said that I wasn't going to lie to her child for her. Kids deserve honesty as adults do.

I remember asking my mom if he was real or not, and she said no, he isn't.

My mom had several reasons for being honest with us.

She said that their is no point to lying to your children and if they question it, then on some level they have doubt. If they are old enough to ask, they are old enough to know the truth. Her other reason was that she didn't want to lie to her children and have them doubt her in any way down the road, even subconsciously. Every kid eventually figures out Santa isn't real and that their parents had lied or led them to believe something that was false.

But her most important reason was that if and when we asked her if "god was real" she didn't want us to question her honesty. If she had lied about Santa, she might be lying about this too.

A lot of people say "what's the harm in letting them believe it." or "It's just innocence"
That isn't entirely true, it is damaging when a young child or any child is lied to deliberately. It doesn't protect their innocence. It teaches them adults lie to them, it must be ok to lie, or don't trust what you mom or dad says.

Serenity
Member

06-28-2005

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:11 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Serenity a private message Print Post    
My DS 6 still believes in Santa but asked me why all the Santas he sees (ie: in the mall) look different. We just simply tell him that Santa represents the 'spirit of giving' at Christmas. He was OK with that response. I'm not sure that he understands what we mean, but it should make the transition easier for when he figures it all out. I don't agree with lying to children. We always tell the truth - we just are choosy with our vocabulary. I would hate to see the magic of the season lost on such a young child.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
I like your answer.
I don't think the magic of the season should have anything to do with Santa giving them presents, and if it does, that's sad. A kid is going to be just as happy with the suprise of presents if they don't come from Santa. It's the spirit of giving that should be the magic of the season, no matter what you believe.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Todays Dear Abby Says:

"...children are little vessels. If you fill their heads with nonsense, they'll pour it forth at a later date - embarrassing themselves in front front of friends or in the classroom, where they will feel like idiots when it's pointed out that they are wrong."

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Well I don't think Santa is nonsense. And I doubt that Dear Abby was talking about Santa--was she?

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
No, she was talking about lying to children.

How is Santa not nonsense? Do you believe a little man in a red suit flies in a magical sleigh pulled by flying reindeer all over the world at midnight on Christmas to deliver toys to the good children and lumps of coal to the "bad children". Eat cookies and milk at each stop before moving on to the next house? Do you believe he has a workshop of "elves" who work non stop all year making toys for kids?

(Something comes to mind in the way of slave owner, sweat shops, animal rights, breaking and entering, and heart disease.)


Or is it a way to bribe our children into being good all year without having to really parent?

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
Dylan heard Santa wasnt real around 6-7 yrs old...he asked me point blank and I told him if you believe he will come...he kept pushing so I told him......he was crushed, cried and said 'my whole life has been a lie!!!' I felt so bad that he felt so decieved. He wondered why parents lie to their kids and I really didnt have a good answer.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
Heck, my kids 11 and 16 still believe in Santa! They believe in the spirit of giving that Santa represents. They believe in the 'magic' of someone traveling through the night to bring presents. Why not let kids believe in magic? I let them watch David Copperfield with wide eyes of astonishment and don't say 'well, you know it's all just an illusion.'

Jimmer, in answer to your question. I always ask (and pretty much do this with all the 'big' questions) "well, what do you think?" and then see what they say. You can usually tell from their answers what they want to hear. I remember right after my mother died (she died 5 days before Christmas) my ds was 13. That Christmas was rather somber anyway. We were opening presents and he says something to the effect of 'how did Santa know i wanted this?' and my sil who thinks Santa is lying to her kids just sort of laughed and him and said 'well how do you think??' and he just looked at her with such pleading in his eyes that very clearly said 'please don't go there, not this Christmas, i need the magic'. And thankfully she backed off.
You will know your kids and what to say. I have always said that I believe in the magic...and i do.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    


Skootz
Member

07-23-2003

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:39 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Skootz a private message Print Post    
My kids are 8, 6 & 4 and I have this line prepared.

"There will always be presents under the tree if you believe in Santa Claus"

I will use the toothfairy quote of "I have never seen her" for future reference.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
So if your kids don't believe in Santa, there are no presents?

Skootz
Member

07-23-2003

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Skootz a private message Print Post    
no I would never do that..there will always be presents, but just something to have them think about...usually they are older when they start to wonder about christmas etc. so it won't be a stern "if you always believe...." it will be said to they get it.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
I don't think of Santa as lying to my kidlets. We have always explained that Santa is part of the spirit (he's giving and kind) and magic of the holiday season. And if for a short while of their lives they think he's a fat old elf in a red suit who visits every child in the middle of the night driving his sleigh with flying reindeer it's not going to warp them for life. They grow up too fast as it is, and if they want to believe in the magic that is Santa Claus I'm all for it.

Few years ago we had friends with young children (they were around 4-9 years old then.) They went to visit family and when they got back they informed their parents that grandpa had told them Santa wasn't real. Parents were ticked, kids were crushed. I remember the husband saying if you want to teach your children Santa isn't real thats your choice and he would respect that but don't take the choice away from me about what I teach my children. Each family has to decide in their own way how to address this subject and the only right choice is the one that's right for your family, not the neighbors, not your grandchildren, but for you and your kids.

Last year Caleb asked us if Santa was real. We had a long talk and he was very upset at the end of it. Not because he felt he'd been lied to but because he wanted to still believe. He's never been afraid of the monsters under the bed or anything he's read or seen, but this one time he wanted to believe. We read Yes Virgina, there is a Santa Claus (TVCH'ers recommended it) and he was happy after that. He knows Santa isn't real, but he still believes that Santa is part of the spirit of Christmas and for now, he's quiet satisfied with what he knows to be and what he believes to be.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
It's funny, as much as my son loves to torment his sister, he has never done anything to dispell her belief. I think he kind of enjoys believing in the magic too.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
The Christmas spirit is one thing, but leading them to believe that he is in fact "REAL" is another.

Christmas trees are part of the spirit, as are ornaments, lights, candy canes, stockings, gingerbread men, and the man dressed in the suit at the mall. In that sense, I guess I can see it.

Skootz
Member

07-23-2003

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Skootz a private message Print Post    
I recommend going seeing the movie "The Polar Express" it's an awesome movie!

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Switch foot here:

If your son said "Mommy is Spiderman a real person?"
Would you tell him yes because it is in the spirit of Childhood and their love for comics?

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
Do we have to see it to believe it? Can't Santa, that sense of giving, sharing, making the world a happier, bright, more miraculous world be real even if there isn't a fat old elf in a red suit? Christmas shouldn't be about the presents, it's about giving and sharing with family and friends, doing something for others to make them, and in return you, happy, about finding miracles and magic, big and small, during this time of year. And if believing in Santa helps to foster that spirit just a little bit in kids, where's the harm?

Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
i wasn't harmed by it. when i found out i enjoyed keeping the idea alive for my younger brother. it brings out the kid in me making me feel young again.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Yes, but we (if we are of the faith) say the same thing of God. We don't see him, but we believe it.

The difference is, your kids are going to grow to know that the Santa bit is a croc, and if he is, they will think God is too.

My point is, lie to them once, especially when they are going to find out anyway, and they will assume you will lie to them again. Kids are sponges, they absorb everything, and my trust is one thing I would want them to absorb, not doubt in my word.

Serenity
Member

06-28-2005

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Serenity a private message Print Post    
I certainly don't tell my kids that Santa is a real man - just that he is a symbol of the season. It is up to them to formulate their own judgements based on that information. The older they get (the more knowledge they accumulate) they will realize the truth. My kids know that the religious significance of Christmas is ultimately what the holiday is about.

That being said, I don't think that there is anything wrong with getting a thrill from delight. Santa is part of a festivity - just as much as the tree, ornaments, gift-exchange, etc. It is a form of escapism from the real world for a moment in time. I love the movie/book "The Polar Express." I see nothing wrong with children choosing to believe in a bit of magic.

Serenity
Member

06-28-2005

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Serenity a private message Print Post    
Psst...Escapee...did Santa bring you a lump of coal one year?

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 2:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post    
Therein lies the difference Serenity. The difference of letting them or leading them to believe there is a real man living at the north pole who does the "santa thing" every year or letting them real in the "spirit" of Christmas:

FWIW:
My uncle took my neice who is 7 on a road trip in their motor home from Ca. to Alaska, and then some. Guess what, there is a man and a woman up there, with a gingerbread looking house, with a big pole out front that says North Pole who's job it is to be Santa and Mrs. Claus all year for tourists. There are even reindeer folks. It's very funny. It confirmed her belief in Santa and she even convinced some kids at school after showing them the pictures.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, November 18, 2005 - 2:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
Escapee, my brother and his wife believe like you, that this is a lie. That's fine. I respect their belief as I do yours. I would hope that you could respect those that look at it differently than you.
My children have always understood what the true meaning of Christmas is. And their belief in the story of Santa has in no way diminished their belief in Christ. They also know that there is more to the story of Christ than just his birth, but his life and teachings. If a jolly man in a little red suit who shows generosity, unselfishness, humility and caring towards others helps a little child understand Christ like qualities, then I frankly don't see the harm.