Author |
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-22-2004
| Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 9:11 pm
Hi! I need some help. I am holding my training for my summer camps this coming week. One of my major problems with this Y is that the adults let the kids call them by their first name. I grew up with parents that made us call everyone by a title of some sort whether it was Miss/Mr or Aunt/Uncle. Anyway, I am the ONLY one on the entire staff that forces the kids to call me by a title. At the sites, I force the kids to call my assistants Miss/Mr but I know when I'm not there the guys let them drop the Mr. After winter break, the 16 year old girl that assisted me at my old site told me at the beginning of the year she thought I was being too strict by making them call us Ms/Mr but now that she's used to it, she liked it much better than letting the kids use her first name. (That was because over break all of the kids from all the schools we service are together and we see around 80-100 kids a day). Can you guys help me out and come up with reasons for why kids need to call the adults/instructors by a title and not just use their first name? I normally tell the counselors that besides being respectful I think it sets you apart from their other pals and lets them know they need to listen to you because you have authority. But apparently they need more reasons. Thanks!
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 9:39 pm
My son went to camp for years and called his counsellors by their first names. I think it just sets camp apart from school. At school they have to call their teachers by Mr/Mrs/Ms, it is a formal address for a structured environment. I dont see anyting wrong with calling counsellors by their first name in the environment of summer camp. It sets the tone for the informality and relaxation of camp. My son loved all his counsellors and even though he felt that they were friends to him, he never lost sight of the fact that they were in charge and he did what they told him to.
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Sunrvrose
Member
08-13-2001
| Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 10:08 pm
Grace, your question is not an unusual one. The lack of formality in addressing elders or authority figures is pretty common in these informal times. In my case, rather than working with children, I work with senior citizens who are often offended by physicians' staff, caregivers, and others referring to the senior by their first name. Regarding summer camps and even preschool situations, it is not at all uncommon for children to use the first name of their teacher/counsellor/advisor. Depending on the age of the children, I think that in a camp or preschool setting, to refer to one's elder as Mrs. Melockovitch-Smythe, is a bit tedious. I think in that case, Ms Eva is a good choice. I think that the title Ms, Miss Mrs, Mr, should be utilized, rather than just "Eva" or "Rick". In that way, a degree of formality is recognized but it is less onerous, and more contemporary.
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Lumbele
Member
07-12-2002
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 5:07 am
Grace, I think this may also be a cultural question. Coming from a time and place where first name basis was restricted to family and close friends, it has taken me 30 years to get used to the North American way. There are still times when I resent someone I have never met before call me by my first name, esp. when they are considerasbly younger. Making the distinction between friends and supervisors is a good idea, I think. As the saying goes "familiarity breeds contempt". Not all kids are like Maris' son, but rather think they can treat someone they call by their first name as they do their friends. A 16-year-old camp counsellor is not as likely to have the skills to project the "I want you to have fun, but don't ever forget who's in charge here" message as a mature adult would. Being called by title is more likely to help them convey that message, esp. since kids are used from school to call authority by title. Depending on the circumstances it could therefor also become a safety issue. Having said that, like Sunrvrose I find the "southern" way of calling someone Ms/Mr FirstName a wonderful compromise.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 6:52 am
My kids know when to call people Ms so and so or Mr so and so because I said so. It's a sign of respect. And because I said so is the only reason they needed.
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-22-2004
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:01 am
Mocha I'm with you. . . I think it's a colored people/southern thing. The more I think about it the more I remember this being prominent when I lived in VA and when I was working with the kids (Black & Latino) in the city in Philadelphia. And I know that Asian (Indian, Oriental. . .whatever) are all brought up this way.
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Lumbele
Member
07-12-2002
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:01 am
LOL, Mocha! Ds had to ignore all offers of "just call me ....", because he liked to live. He is an adult now, so fill your boots, but until then it was Ms, Mrs. and Mr. Basta!
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:09 am
Lol Lum. I agree with that Grace.
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Rosie
Member
11-12-2003
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:29 am
Grace, I don't think the kids have to address the Y staff with Mr. or Mrs., etc. Just leave it up to the individual staff to decide how they would like to be addressed. Sun, I know what you mean about being addressed as "sweetie" or "hun". I would like to slap the snot out of people that use that terminology. It is so not sincere and suggests a closeness that does not exist. There is a RDA at my dentist's office that calls me sweetie and one of these days he is going to get decked. I wouldn't mind if he addressed me by my first name, or even Rosie (lol), but I am not his sweetie.
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:52 am
My wife and I were talking about this just the other day. All of the kids in our neighborhood, from the time they can talk, refer to other kid’s parents by their first name instead of Mr. or Mrs. Last Name. Some people might think it is silly but I find it odd when my four year old is on a first name basis with her little friend’s Mom and Dad. It just seems weird to me, but I don’t think there is much that I can do to change it without looking draconian. So I just let it go, even though I do think it creates a tiny problem, because as the old saying goes "familiarity breeds contempt".
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 8:24 am
I'll never forget when I moved to Wilmington, DE (when Matt was an infant) that the sweet and incredibly polite little girls down the block started calling me "Miss Dale" rather than "Mrs. Swift." I went into shock! (I had never heard that before.) Not being too terribly dull, I figured out for myself that this was the way they were taught to show respect. So, although I initially had tried to correct them, noticing the girls' confusion, I just let it go. They were not trying to be familiar; they were trying to do as their momma had taught them. Now, as far as the Y goes, I do agree with a uniform code, and a more formal one. I was just watching a wonderful news report about ballroom dancing being taught in the lower grades (you've seen these stories) and the corrollary benefits. Behavior improves, sensibilities become more refined, etc. I think the same logic applies here. It's certainly not any more difficult for kids to utter an extra syllable or two. It is an audible and proper way of recognizing that there is a difference in status between kids and adults. Discipline is easier when that distinction is clear. These counselors are not there to be their friends (which doesn't mean they can't be warm, loving individuals). They are there to provide a wide variety of positive, exploring experiences, to lead them and to counsel them. And when issues come up, they should be there to maintain discipline and help them problem-solve their issues. I think you do need a group session with all counselors to hash through this and help them understand the intent and the fallout from doing otherwise.
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Spygirl
Moderator
04-23-2001
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:34 am
How about a sort of compromise? Any place I have ever worked where we were in charge of youth, we were called "Miss <insert first name> and "Mr <insert first name>" That set the tone for how we were different from the youth - because there is a hierarachy - without having to have a high degree of formality with last names.
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-22-2004
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:50 am
Spy that's all I ask for. Some of the elder employees want to be called by their last name and I'm fine with that. But I feel like at the very least they should call us Ms. Grace or Mr. Joe. . .
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 2:51 pm
I, too, think of it as a sign of respect. I've worked with kids a long time, and I do not like kids calling me by my first name and even when I was a kid, I'd never have dreamed of calling an adult or leader by their first name only. Spy's compromise is a good one. If the older employees want to be called by their last name, that's their perogative.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 2:58 pm
My kids' friends call me either Ms Schelli or Mrs Collins, either works for me. And with their sports coaches it's always Coach Charles or Coach Stan, etc.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 3:21 pm
Unless you are the administrator, I dont understand why you want everyone to follow your guidelines or what you think is proper. If you are the administrator then those are your rules and you are entitled to set them as you see fit. If you arent responsible for setting the policy, why not allow the counsellors to make that decision for themselves. Those are my two cents.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 4:43 pm
I hate being called Mrs, makes me feel old
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Mamie316
Member
07-08-2003
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 4:48 pm
My kids have called adults Mr. or Mrs. unless told to do otherwise by the adults themselves.
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Schoolmarm
Member
02-18-2001
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 6:20 pm
I had a rule with my private piano students that they could call me by my first name only in my studio. If I saw them at school I was Dr. Marm. Most of them called me Dr. Marm in the studio as well. My college students call me Dr. Marm. When they graduate, they can call me by my first name, however, I tend to cringe when they do that. I REALLY hate being called Mrs. Marm.....since I'm not a Mrs,! Next semester in my teacher prep classes I'm going to call my students by their "teacher names"....just so they get used to being Mr. "I'm a student" and Ms. "I'm going to be a teacher." By having everyone use titles, it helps the pre-service teacher (or camp staff) set boundaries. For high school kids, I think that Miss "First Name" is just fine. I think that the use of the first name needs to be at the invitation of the adult. This is similar to the "tu" or "du" familiar form in other languages.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 6:51 pm
I think there is a distinction to be made between a student teacher relationship and summer camp. Summer camp is all about having fun, making friends, playing games. It isnt the same environment.
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Rosie
Member
11-12-2003
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 6:58 pm
How old are these camp counselors? You mentioned a 16 year old assistant above.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:07 pm
I do not believe Grace is talking about a typical summer camp. I think she is talking about summer day camps-which is more like "school" than "camp." And anyways, there would be two "divisions." One would be the kids and the other would be those in charge of the kids. I don't think it matters if they are 16 or 46, as it is a matter of respect.
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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:13 pm
I guess it is how you were brought up, as Lum mentioned. As a youngster, I could NOT call an adult by his or her first name, even when invited. It was not comfortable because it was not what I 'knew' to be appropriate. I think a discussion of 'fun' and these titles is a red herring. Using more formal titles does not preclude fun.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:33 pm
I'm just seeing this thread now...I have a few things to add. I like the 'casualized' form oif the MR/Mrs?Ms names. My uncle is a teacher of kids with behavioral problems in grades 4/5/6. These kids are in a low-income area of the city he lives in, and they need friends, but at the same time, need to learn respect for authority. Our family last name is very long, and rather than being all stuffy, and making these kids call him by Mr. Superlonglastname, he makes them use Mr, but lets them use his last name initial. I think he feels it's a compromise. So they call him Mr. C. It keeps them saying Mr, and that lets them know he IS an authority figure, but by using his initial, it makes it a bit more casual, and hopefully fosters a more intimate/friendly environment. On another note, I find it interesting that you folks made light of the racial differences in showing respect. Does anyone think that the intense demand for black children to treat elders with respect is a remnant of the days of slavery, when black people were treated as inferior? I would think that it may have become black cultural tradition to inhibit children who were growing up "rebellious" or "defiant", in an effort to preserve their family. Does what I'm saying make any sense? I should say that although I don't tiptoe around race issues, I will admit that I don't know enough about other races, and I say everything without meaning to offend anyone. Hopefully nobody takes my question the wrong way... 
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-22-2004
| Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 7:34 pm
The youngest camp counselor is 21 and then me - 30. The 16 year old was in the aftercare program through the same YMCA. I was the site director, which meant I was in charge of the site and my rules are it at my site. Now I am the Director of Arts & Humanities. My summer camps are not your typical sleep over camps, these are specialty camps for drama, art, science and Spanish. These people have degrees and specialized training so they are not your average high schooler just playing with a bunch of kids. I agree with HP, just because they are using a title doesn't mean the kids can't have fun. I have kids signed up for my summer camps from the aftercare program simply because they love ME so much and they know they'll have fun. It's nice to see I'm not the only one that thinks this way 
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