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Archive through April 06, 2005

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: 2005 Mar. ~ 2005 May: Parneting Room (ARCHIVES): Terrible Twos/Threes (and Twenty One Month Olds): ARCHIVES: Archive through April 06, 2005 users admin

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Graceunderfyre
Member

01-21-2004

Friday, April 01, 2005 - 9:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Help! Jai is starting to drive me up a wall. He's been hitting me in the face when he doesn't like what I have to say for the past month or so. I usually flick his hand when he does it but he doesn't get the point. But new this week is biting me. I swear he almost made me bleed twice this afternoon. He swoops in like he's going to give me a kiss on the cheek and then chomps down. I don't bruise often but there was a mark for a good 2 hours afterwards on both cheeks today. What do I do? He doesn't seem to get that he shouldn't bite.

Graceunderfyre
Member

01-21-2004

Friday, April 01, 2005 - 9:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
BTW, I should add he doesn't do this to anyone else but me - so it's something I'm doing. He tried hitting dad today and was spanked (just like I do) and he didn't try it again.

Teachmichigan
Member

07-22-2001

Friday, April 01, 2005 - 10:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I had one lady tell me that biting back (light but enough to pinch) worked wonders. Fortunately, my DS never bit (and never put stuff up his nose and never hit -- even when hit by other toddlers -- I really wonder whose child he is? :-) )...so I can't tell you from experience. Is he old enough to understand no or to have a special toy taken away for a set length of time? We used that from about 2 1/2 on and it worked wonders! (Even the threat of taking away nintendo still works like a charm and he's 10 now!)

Graceunderfyre
Member

01-21-2004

Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 7:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
teach you are just like me, I call it a nintendo too. . .when I brought in my "nintendo" to work for the kids to play they were all upset because they thought they were going to play with this classic system and not just a playstation.

Jai doesn't understand taking away toys yet. But when I ask him if he wants to be spanked he tells me no. DH says I shouldn't ask, I should just spank so he understands it's not a choice that's what happens when he bites. But I think being around the older kids at the YMCA so much has got me reacting as if he was older. . .

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 8:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Take his hand when he does that and very firmly say NO, BITING/HITTING HURTS. DO NOT DO THIS.

A wonderful book is Magic 1-2-3- by Thomas W. Phelan. It got me through those years.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 9:59 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I don't recommend biting back or spanking.

The best way to stop is that whenever he "swoops" in to you, put your hands up and stop him before he gets to you. I know you don't really know if he's going to bite or kiss, but right now you should assume that he's coming in for the kill. :-) When you stop him, explain to him that you don't want him to bite you, and that biting is wrong.

Same with the hitting, if you say something you know he doesn't like, be ready! Put your hand up and grab his when he goes to hit you, and again say "NO HITTING" firmly and with your face right in hs little face. Don't yell, but be very clear that you won't tolerate this.

When he bites you or hits you, you need to take him by both hands, get down on his level, and insist that he look at you (calmly) and speak firmly just as Texannie said, telling him NO. Then I would make him sit on a stool or chair for 2 minutes, where he has nothing to do but sit. If he's very young, you may have to sit with him to make him stay, but be silent except to tell him to continue sitting if the time isn't up yet. In really strong-will chiidren, you may have to hold them in the seat, saying, I love you, but I have to teach you good behavior, and we're going to stay here for 2 minutes. Don't yell, don't get excited, stay very calm and quietly firm.

After the sitting, take him aside again and say lovingly to him that you love him, but you cannot allow him to do things that hurt you, and you will stop him until he learns how to stop himself.

That last step is very important, you must convey to him that he needs to learn how to stop himself. Don't worry if he doesn't completely understand that yet, but it's something he needs to learn again and again, that it is HIS responsibility to learn to stop himself from doing things that are wrong.

Good luck!

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 10:03 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think that biting back or spanking teaches the kid that it is okay to do those things. I never understood how a parent could teach a kid not to hit by hitting. (or not to bite by biting)

Teachmichigan
Member

07-22-2001

Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 8:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Like I said -- I never had to use the "bite back" method. :-) Good luck --and let us know what works for you!

Graceunderfyre
Member

01-21-2004

Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 11:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
thanks guys. . . I figured out he is teething with his molars and boy is he in pain. I keep snacks he likes on the lowest level of the fridge and when I open it up he's been grabbing the string cheese. But he won't let us open the package - wants to bite on it as is - when we do open it, he feeds it to the dog (who by the way, is VERY happy with this new arrangement). It occurred to me this morning that he must be teething, so we went through a box that was about to be sent to storage to get his teething toys back out.

I like your ideas though - I'll see what happens next time. While I was out at the fabric store this evening, he hit DH pretty hard and made him mad. DH said it was like the time the ferret randomly climbed up on his chair and bit him on the eyebrow - he reacted without thinking - that time he threw the ferret across the room (no Dylan never bit DH again). This time, he smacked him really hard on the hand and Jai started to scream and cry. DH told Jai that hitting is not nice and he has to say I'm Sorry (I've never heard those words come out of his mouth before and he talks less with DH than me) and kept telling him calmly that he would not let him get up until he said the words Jai got even louder. After a few minutes, he looked up at DH and tried to give him a hug and kiss but DH wasn't sure if he'd bite so he didn't let him kiss on the face and it ended up being a kiss on the hand. He thinks that was Jai saying sorry.

Enbwife
Member

08-14-2000

Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 10:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have a 2 3/4 yr old who is right in the middle of the challenging 2s. I keep hoping that on his 3rd b-day it will change. I also do not agree with spanking or biting. As mentioned, 1-2-3 Magic is excellent and we use it around here all the time. If Nathan is doing something wrong, like throwing his dinner across the room or hitting the TV with a toy, etc. we will count him. We'll get down to his level, look him in the eye and with NO emotion, say "no throwing, that's 1". If he does it again, "that's 2". If he does it again, "that's 3" & time out to his room. We find his room works for him and he stays in there for 3 minutes. When we go to get him we explain why he had a time out and ask for an apology. Seems to work really well for him.

For any kind of aggressive behaviour such as hitting or pushing us or other kids, it's an instant 3 to a time out.

I also find good sleep (especially much needed afternoon nap) makes for a much more happy and cooperative little boy. :-)

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
DD bit me once, I bit her back to show her it hurt (no I didn't bite her hard), but she figured out that that hurts, and she didn't do it again. Same goes for hitting, pinching, etc. Sometimes kids don't know that they are hurting you. It's hard to tell a child that it "hurts" when they don't know what that means. I am talking 1 to 2 years old. You can't really explain things to them as easily as you can a three or four year old. Time outs at the young age of 1 to 2 don't often work, when you can't get them to sit still, because they can't fathom the idea of "time out", "Sit here" and "don't move"

DD will get a slight spanking for direct disobedience. When she is told no and understands that we do not want her to continue this activity, if it persists, she will get a swat. 9/10 times it is an instant problem correction. We don't lose our temper over it and she usually doesn't do the same thing twice.

Yesterday she was playing in the cat's food/water dish. We told her no and put it up high. She got very angry when we did this and began to cry. We didn't pacify this crying, she was frustrated, and at one and a half, she doesn't really know how to deal with stress any other way. The second my back was turned she had climbed up on the table to continue playing with it. I again told her no, swatted her slightly and took her in the other room. She cried a lot more, but didn't go back to playing in the catfood. I also didn't hurt her at all, she was just angry that she lost a battle of wills.

Also, there is a difference between spanking and abuse. A swat is not corporal punishment. (I know there are avid anti spanking parents right here at TVCH.) Nor should it be used to relieve aggressions or as a reflex. It is a quick, and shocking attitude adjustment that will often result in crying from frustration rather than pain.

There was a question of how do you teach your child not to hit by hitting? It shows them what hitting does and what happens if they do it to you. You are the adult. They are the child. The swat tells them that a role reversal will not be tolerated and in a battle of will, you as the parent will win.

So, for those who agree with spanking or punishment along these lines, please don't criticize those who don't agree, don't tell them, "I'd give that kid a good spanking." It's none of anyone elses business but your own family.

And those who are against it, that is your perogative, but don't try to change the ways of other parents who do utilize this type of punishment, it isn't your child, it isn't your problem. If you don't like it, don't look.

Do what you deam is necessary within your own family. But, there are the lines that should never ever be crossed. Again a spank is not corporal punishent and there is a difference between a spank and abuse. Please, know what the difference is.

I know a ton of children who's parents have opted not to spank. That's just great. They are given time outs and removal of privelages. Well that's just fine when they are older. But the behavioral problems stem from when they are smaller and can't understand the concepts of loss of privelages or time outs. Also, most of the kids I know that never had proper discipline are the ones who are the problem children. The social outcasts and the behaviorally challenged who get in trouble at school and have no respect for authority. Could be a coincidence.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
1-2-3 is a lazy out for me. If I don't correct it on the first try, or the second try, then finally on the third, that just teaches DD that she can do it 3 times before she gets in trouble.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Time out has never ever worked in my house.

Danas15146
Member

03-31-2004

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Not to rain on your parade - but with both my kids three was worse than two!

Timeout doesn't work for us either.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Escapee, the major studies that have been done on the issue of spanking show that on average, kids who are spanked are more violent than kids who are not.

This is obviously a complicated issue, and discipline is not as simple as spanking or not. The whole point of displining is to teach. If you essentially teach that the bigger stronger person wins on some level, you are teaching the wrong thing.

I've never spanked my child, not even when he was 1 or 2. I never wanted him to be afraid of me, nor did I ever want him to learn that might makes right at any age.

Other methods of discipline are certainly more involved and take more time and thought, but in the long run they pay off very well.

Something to think about. :-)

Schoolmarm
Member

02-18-2001

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Mom HAD to bite me to make me quit biting my little brother. I was 2-3 at the time and I don't remember it AT ALL! One bite was all it took. Apparently it only took one time of getting my stomach pumped to make me quit climbing the cupboards (I ate a bottle of aspirin).

How many times does it take to touch a hot burner before we learn that it hurts?

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well, okay, Marm, I guess then to teach our kids not to touch their stoves, we should just put their hands on it?

I'm sorry, but this one makes no sense to me. I never understood why we think we can use violence on our kids in ways that would get us arrested if we did it to another adult....

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 1:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well Kar I think what you're talking about is a whole different thing and I disagree. And it doesn't matter to me what some study says. I do what works for me and my kids. Period point blank.

Teachmichigan
Member

07-22-2001

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 2:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Gotta' agree with Mocha -- but there is a difference between violence and a swat. I was paddled as a child, but never without a long talk before and after (and wihtout being warned that if I didn't stop whatever the behavior was I would be spanked). It was always on the rear, it never left marks, and I always knew my parents loved me. I use it rarely (thank heavens for Nintendo -- my biggest threat! LOL), but when I did use it as a last resort, it always worked. And my son doesn't flinch when I'm near him or wonder why he was spanked.

I think this is one of those issues people will NEVER agree on -- it depends on how you were raised, how it the spanking itself is used, and soooo many other factors -- most related to values and religion which people are pretty persistent in sticking to! :-)

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 3:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
If we want a kinder, gentler world, one that is peaceful, I think we have to start at the beginning. If you bit another adult, you'd be arrested. Same as if you swatted their behind.

Yes, there are certainly different degrees, and lesser degrees are likely less harmful. An occasional swat on a child less than 2 is clearly different than a dozen whacks with a hand on a older child. I get the difference. I don't favor either.

Sometimes things work in the short run, but still have undesireable additional consequences. Much like medicines that may cure an illness, but cause different kinds of damage while doing so. The kinds of damage aren't always apparent until later.

Whatever level you are using, you are still using physical pain and intimidation to teach obedience. I disagree with that. For one, I don't think the overall lesson is obedience, the overall lesson is how do we teach our children to make wise choices on their own.

I think it also teaches that physical pain and intimidation are appropriate ways of treating other human beings. And I never think that is right. JMO.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 3:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I never said I wanted a kinder gentler world.

Teachmichigan
Member

07-22-2001

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
LOL @ Mocha!

I don't think I'm damaged, I do make wise choices, and I was paddled -- guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I also think we make children do things "for their own good" that we couldn't force other adults to do (like clean their rooms, brush their teeth, etc.). Children are NOT adults, do NOT have the ability to make "wise" choices yet because they don't have the experience, and I think we do them a disservice if we treat them like "mini-adults." Funny -- we just had this discussion in the school teacher's lounge -- and many of us thought a large part of our discipline and respect issues at school stemmed from the fact that most children were NOT disciplined and were treated as an "equal" to the adults in the household.

Yikes-- way too serious, aren't I? I'll "cease and disist" on this topic. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine -- so it's pretty pointless anyway.

HOWEVER, if I could get a QUIETER world, I'd be less worried about the "kinder, gentler, world"!

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well, there ya go, Mocha. :-)

Teach, I'm not speaking to anyone's specific situation, that would be insane.

And I'm not talking about abdicating teaching of our children either.

I'm just advocating for teaching in a way that doesn't have such a high likelihood of instilling some less desireable learning as well.

Discipline and spanking are not at all the same thing. Spanking wouldn't fix your discipine issues, and many kids who don't have discipline issues weren't spanked either.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Spankings don't teach a child to fear the parents, it teaches them to fear the spanking and repercussions of their actions.

Explain to me how you give a tot a time out?

I was spanked, and I am NOT a violent person.

Spankings usually didn't even hurt, but it was the fear of the potential of it hurting that we feared. And on another note, children are not an adults equal. That is the common misconception that is made. Adults come firsts. For example: there are two shows on at the same time. One a child wishes to watch and one an adult wishes to watch. In my house, adults win. It's a respect issue, not a violent issue, not a submission issue.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Like my momma always said:

I am the boss, applesauce.

Don't question it, she is the adult, what she says goes.