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Archive through December 31, 2004

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: 2005 Mar. ~ 2005 May: The Tsunami Tragedy: ARCHIVES: Archive through December 31, 2004 users admin

Author Message
Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 4:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks, Sea. I must've missed "the man" saying that about tourism. I agree that many of the larger resorts will be able to rebuild relatively quickly, if they can restore the infrastructure. But it's the smaller islands, that are completely wiped out, that will never return to life as they knew it.

The way the numbers keep rising, I'd be surprised if this doesn't become one of the biggest natural disasters. (Bangaladesh... total of 430,000 lives lost due to flooding! Yikes!)

On another note... someone mentioned how it's more Westerners who are being talked about. I think, too, it's because they have more access to technology, and therefore their stories are heard quicker.

Now that it's getting harder to identify bodies (after having been exposed to heat and humidty for several days), can you imagine the forensic nightmare of trying to identify those who have not yet been so? MSNBC just showed a young Thai man having hairs plucked from his head, so he can have the body of his sister identified (he thinks he has identified her but is unsure due to her condition).

MSNBC still says 117,000 lives lost. 14 Americans confirmed dead, thousands whose whereabouts are yet unknown.

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 4:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
There are fault lines that run underneath Lake Tahoe at the Northern Cal/Nevada Border. Scientist say that if the faults/plates were to shift enough that the quake would cause a Tsunami that would cover the entire state of California and part of Nevada in 14" of water. Scary, I am only a couple hours from there

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 7:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
There are so many "if's"... I've lived in California my entire life, have always heard warnings of the "big one" and have yet to see California break off and Nevada become beachfront property.

Most of the fault lines in the States run horizontally, rather than vertically (it was the vertical movement of the plates in the Indian Ocean that caused the massive displacement of water).

Sweet_tooth
Member

01-25-2004

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 7:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I believe that I heard on the news yesterday that Nick, the cute interior decorator that Oprah has on her show a lot, was in Thailand I think. He and a friend were in a hut on the beach when the wave hit. They hung on to a pole for as long as they could. Nick is okay I think - they interviewed him by telephone - but his friend was still missing at that time.

So much death and destruction is making me feel very unnerved. We have had some tragedies occur at my work in the last few weeks and now this inconceivable tragedy for those poor people. Very distressing. I hope they get relief to them before all of the diseases that are being predicted start occurring.

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 7:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Sweet, that is Nate. Unfortunately, his lover Fernando with whom he was vacationing is apparently dead. Very sad indeed.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 10:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Linkin Park Donates $100,000 to Tsunami Relief

Thu Dec 30, 1:25 PM ET

By Barry A. Jeckell

NEW YORK (Billboard) - With memories of a successful summer tour in Southeast Asia still fresh in their minds, the members of Linkin Park are spearheading an effort to help victims of the earthquake and tsunami that have devastated the region.

The Los Angeles-based rock act has set up an organization called Music for Relief (http://www.musicforrelief.org) with an initial donation of $100,000. It will directly support American Red Cross (http://www.redcross.org) programs.

"We are fortunate to be in a position to help, but this needs to be a broader effort," said guitarist Brad Delson.

"If one of our fans can donate $10, then that's going to help ... We are also going to appeal to our musical peers by asking them to donate as well."

More than 125,000 people are confirmed dead in the wake of a tsunami that followed Sunday's 9.0 magnitude earthquake in the depths of the Indian Ocean, off the coast of Sumatra.

Over the summer, Linkin Park played sold-out stadium shows in Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia, which all suffered tsunami fatalities.

========================================================


I think this is awesome. Here I am, sitting watching crap shows like "The richest celebrities of 2004" and how they spend their money, and all I can think about it what a WASTE of money it is. It's nice to see a group throwing some cash to a good cause. I SOOOO hope others follow suit.


Tishala - Have they confirmed that Nate's partner IS gone? He was a big New York photographer. I saw his brother being interviewed the other night on CNN. I thought he was going to go over there to look for him.


I'm watching CNN right now. Nancy Grace is hosting the tsunami coverage right now. She is out of place for sure. There is no one to BLAME!! Maybe she can find a way to twist the info, and blame Scott Peterson for it. (I know, I'm being facetious.) She still seems out of place. Her emotional over-emphasis seems to be too much. I think I'm going to toss my cookies.

Kstme
Member

08-14-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Being born and raised in the Seattle area, I've been through a couple of earthquakes. In 1965, our Samoyed woke me by tugging on my sleep-shirt only minutes before the quake hit. At Woodland Park Zoo, the animals were very vocal 30 minutes before the quake, but you couldn't hear a bird chirp at the time it hit. Animals are very sensitive to changes in the earth's surface.

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
LINK

If anyone is interested, here's a site that breaks down charities and what they do for the relief effort. Donating is just a few clicks then its done. I know I kept reminding myself to donate but kept forgetting then I would remember again when I wasn't at the computer. ARG!

I chose CARE because they let you choose which relief effort your donation goes to. I like that.

If anyone finds information on an organization taking donations like blankets, clothing, toys, etc...can you pass the info along. Thanks in advance!



Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 12:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Eeyores, humanity is important, but I think the media are being rightly used to help sort people out and to report back to each area, in their language, about the status of their people. Surely there has been more then ample coverage of the sheer tragedy of this event

I'm betting that after 9/11 the coverage in other countries focussed somewhat on those from their region who were lost or survived or had not survived.. only natural.

And besides, anything that can help generate donations, and save more people from dying, and eventually rebuild their economies, that IS humanitarian, IMO.

I heard somewhere that Pfizer, the pharmaceutical company had come up with something like a $5 million donation!

I wonder if Bill Gates or Oprah Winfrey will participate, or it could be that thier funds are already earmarked for other areas.

ABC just said the toll is up to 120,000 now. Part of the slowing is because in some areas they only count the identified dead.

In our paper they showed how far a similar Tsunami would come inland on the coast of Orange County, CA and it was surprisingly not too far.. partly depends on how the beaches are configured and if there are sand berms set up already..

Wow they just said that more than 900,000 are injured in Thailand! (ABC news)

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 2:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Seamonkey, Bill Gates donated $3.5 million. The band Linkin Park donated $100,000. I haven't read anything else yet on personal donations. They mentioned Amazon collecting their money in the article but never said if Amazon would match or donate themselves.

I know it sounds bad but they should be pushing this everywhere. Americans have one more day to make a tax deductible donation for 2004. If I were some organization, I would get on the radio and TVs and promote the hell out of that. Its quite an incentive for those who need one.

Sweet_tooth
Member

01-25-2004

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 7:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have seen stories on TV about other celebrities donating money also. I just hope the money doesn't get tied up in red tape so that all those people get the help they need ASAP. There was a story about all the children who are orphaned now and living in a monastery (sp?). They were taking any child under 10 who had no family left. Hopefully, when all is said and done, some good will come of this - maybe the world can come together and some peace will come.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 10:59 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I heard that Jackie Chan donated $64,000. And the Queen donated as well, tho I can't remember how much.

Scootersmom
Member

08-10-2002

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 11:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Msnbc is now reporting that U.S. will increase to $350 million. President Bush will make announcement later today.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 11:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Fab, the relief organizations are asking for money, and not goods of any type. The logistics of packing, loading, shipping, unloading, and transporting any types of goods (blankets, clothing, and so on) just doesn't make sense. It can cost more to send blankets overseas than it can cost to purchase them there. So ALL organizations are asking for money. That will allow each organization to purchase the goods that they feel are most needed in the areas in which they are trying to help.

And yup, $350 million. No one knows where it's coming from, but it appears the US has stepped up and is taking the lead in the monetary donations. (I gotta wonder if anyone was embarrassed that Pfizer was making a donation equal to the amount the US initially promised?)

I'm glad to see those who HAVE are donating to those who have not. I'm impressed that Linkin Park is doing what they are doing. As I said earlier, somewhere around here... if every celeb donated half of what they earn, there would be a lot of money heading to Asia. (I mean, really, does one person really need $17M per movie?)

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 11:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Actually I think the US was just embarrassed 'cause France had promised almost twice the US commitment.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 11:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Yeah, I thought that, too, Kar. There were too many countries who promised so much more than we did. (I like how Bush's talking heads are now calling that initial $35mil promised as a "downpayment". <grin>)

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 11:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
the US may give up to 1 billion in support at the end of all of this - but why do people have to focus so much on the money right now instead of what the immediate needs are - they are still recovering bodies, they are still trying to get fresh water etc to prevent diseases and as a good article pointed out a few hours ago, the actual professional relief workers are worried that too much focus is being given to all the donations of food, medicine etc - which is needed but also overlooks the other side that the people need help with, and that is counseling and all the psychological issues that cant just be dismissed for a few weeks or months - they should be addressed just as much as preventing the diseases -

the US did start sending over support right away - but its not like we just hit a button and transport our ships and supplies and troops there in a few minutes - it takes a few days or weeks for things to arrive depending on where they started from and i think everyone, the US and the rest of the world, is trying to do the best we can to help right now - as i said before, we cant just decide on a final number to give out the day after such a disaster - we need to see the whole picture in the coming weeks and i am sure the money from all countries will be increasing in the next few weeks - but its not a competition and we are all doing what we can to address the immediate needs of the victims -

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 11:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Legal, it's all part of it. Yes, they need counseling too, and certainly long term help to rebuild (which they are not likely to get from anyone... sadly).

But I will say that it doesn't take a brain scientist to see that the magnitude of this disaster would need a lot more than $15 million, even if you didn't know how precisely you would be spending it.

And the truth is, when you know you have large donations behind you, you can start off more confidently in chartering planes and crews etc to get relief there as quickly as possible.

Yes, needs assessment is important, but all nonprofits need to work within their budget. The NGO's were there first, and large donations to them enable them to mobilize their resources more quickly to provide aid more quickly.

I'm no expert, but it was quite obvious to me in the first 24 hours that billions would be needed in aid. So it is distressing to me that the US is now blaming their delays on waiting to see assessments.



Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 12:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Kar - i hear what you are saying and agree with alot of it - its just when people use wording like "the US is blaming their delays.." - i just think that twists things - people have every right to question why the uS didnt do more quicker, at least more in their eyes, but i dont think the US sees anything they did as "delays" and certainly wouldnt be blaming it on anything - the people in the white house have been saying exactly what i have said from the beginning - making statements about needing to see assessments of the whole picture before long term plans are secured - but saying that is not putting blame on anything or making excuses - they are just saying it the way it is, just letting us know how they are operating - not everyone will agree with the way they operate but i dont see why they are suddenly seen as "blaming their delays". maybe i am reacting too much to words but that is how i feel when i hear things like that on TV or from others - i just think it would be easier if we just said we dont like what the US did and leave it at that instead of spinning things to make it look like the govt is trying to give excuses - let them stand their ground just as much as we stand our ground - and if we disagree with them fine, but the more twisted things get from the facts, the more unnecessary bantering there is - much like this post from me is very unnecessary but i am just venting a little to the whole coverage of the US not doing enough and not venting at Kar's post..

i heard on TV a few days ago how all countries will of course have more coverage of their people, just as much as focusing the native inhabitants - so we will hear about the american stories more than others will, germany will be covering their citziens, etc etc and i suspected that many others will be questioning their own govts as well, which is very common to do - and today there is this article (i would link it but its a registered site)

Scandinavians are fuming at their governments' initial lax response to the tsunami disaster as hopes dimmed for thousands of foreign tourists, mostly Europeans, still missing days after the wall of water hit.

Sweden feared its tourists had been hardest hit. Its media said as many as 4000 Swedes could be missing as the official figure of 1500 seemed to be based only on charter tours, without including backpackers or those on scheduled flights.

Newspapers across the Nordic region fired off editorials accusing their leaders of being too slow to respond to the initial disaster and to send out help to their countrymen.

Swedish tabloids were the harshest critics of the Government. "She went to the theatre," said Aftonbladet, referring to the Foreign Minister, Laila Freivalds, saying she waited 30 hours after the initial report of the disaster to go to her office.

The Swedish Government has conceded it took too long to react, but said no one understood the scale of the disaster.

On Thursday Svenska Dagbladet screamed "Bring them home now", referring to Swedes still stranded in Thailand.

"There is good reason to ask whether it took too long for governments in Denmark, Sweden and Norway to understand the scope of the catastrophe and of the acute need to help their citizens," said the leading Norwegian daily Aftenposten.

In Denmark, one opposition party demanded a special meeting of parliament's foreign affairs committee.

"My firm opinion is that the Government should have sent down a disaster management team," Mogens Lykketoft, the leader of the opposition Danish party the Social Democrats, told the daily Politiken.

Sauli Niinisto, the former Finnish finance minister who saved himself and his two sons by clinging to a lamppost for two hours as the water kept rising, was highly critical of his government.

"I assumed that there would be an emergency meeting by the Government within four to five hours of the disaster and more officials would be sent to Phuket," he told a TV talk show after his ordeal in Khao Lak, the worst-hit beach in Thailand, where he suffered a leg injury saving a Swedish child from drowning.

"After 18 hours, when I got in touch with Bangkok and Phuket, I realised we had not been taken seriously ... I was left with the feeling that no one wanted us anywhere."

A tourist, Benny Engard, told the Finnish daily Hufvudstadsbladet that he could not reach a government helpline. "That's just incredible in this 'Nokia-country', with millions of phones."

Finnish tabloids painted their front covers black and showed photographs of the missing. "Where are they?" they questioned. A chain text message was also being sent by mobile phone in Finland asking people to light a candle in their window.

Officially, their home countries have reported only 212 foreign tourists as killed, but Thailand alone has said that at least 435 foreigners died there. Many more could be among the 6043 missing in Thailand.

The German Chancellor, Gerhard Schroder, told citizens to expect that hundreds of missing compatriots had been killed.

Thailand's tally includes dozens of Swedes, Germans, British, Americans, Norwegians and Italians.

Tourists from Australia, Canada, Japan, Singapore, South Africa and South Korea were also among the dead. Thai police said 3000 people may have been killed in Khao Lak.

Major Chakrit Kaewwattana said more than 1800 bodies had been recovered from Khao Lak beach and its luxury hotels, especially popular with Scandinavians and Germans escaping the long, dark winter back home. He said searchers expected to find several hundred more bodies on an island north of the beach.

The German Foreign Minister, Joschka Fischer, urged people to give money to victims instead of buying New Year fireworks, and across Scandinavia there were signs people would do the same.

Sweden plans to fly flags at half mast today.


mods, forgive me for posting an article in a discussion thread - i couldnt put the link to it and thought it connected to the discussion

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 1:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
As much as I don't discuss politics on message boards, I will say this...even my conservative republican best friend says the white house was remiss in their initial reactions. It took Bush till wednesday to even make the obligatory phone calls to the leaders of the affected countries. Thats just not right, especially when we're trying the nicer, friendlier global approach for the next 4 years. But hey, better late than never...

I am just sick of hearing some americans complain about how much we ARE doing. I can't imagine someone can sit in front of their tv and see what I see but feel in their hearts that we should not do anything over there to help. Trust me, in my coffee shop, this is a popular opinion. I kindly remind them that nearly as many americans are missing over there right now as died on 9/11, in case they need the disaster somewhat localized in order to care at all.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 1:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Legal, can you at least provide attribution for the article? (Sorry, but, copyrights are pretty important to me. And quoting without attribution is a teensy bit of a pet peeve of mine. <wink>)

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 2:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Legal, very nice post. I will raise only one counterpoint to the issue of the language of "blaming delays".

We have no way of knowing whether the US actually increased its promises based on assessment or based on the negative reaction to the US speed and volume of response, or some combination of both. While we can't say what is factually true about the conversations that occur behind closed doors, I think it's probably fair to assume that if public pressure played a part in the US increased commitment, it's rather doubtful that our politicians would admit it. So I don't have a problem with the language, given that it may very well have been the public outcry of "not enough" that motivated them to act sooner and more generously. JMO.

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 5:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
costacat sorry about that - somehow the title and source didnt get pasted with the article it was "Too little, too late: Scandinavian fury at governments' response" and was in the Sydney Morning Herald - Dec 31 10:08 AM

very true Karuuna - public pressure probably did speed up things

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 7:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It is so overwhelming to me I can understand how a government might also be overwhelmed, what I dont understand is why the media, or the press secretary felt the need to tell us that President Bush was "clearing brush" and "walking with his wife" ... I do not in any way begrudge the President for going on vacation in this high tech society, what I think is adding fuel to the fire of indifference is that report... 35 million is what I heard was in the "bank" for disaster or foreign disaster, so I can understand the initial report, if he was on 'vacation' and clearing brush, he could say "what do we have in that bank account?" "Give it all" of course now I'm just spinning!!! (and LOL I am SO not republican!!)

I do think that there had to be some thought that the private sector in this country will step up also, again I think the whole magnitude of the devastation is overwhelming, and yet, when I go back in my mind to our Sept 11 disaster, how other countries responded comforted us, I do not think that was reciprocated on the onset.

To all the people stranded without water for days, I know that we are trying to get to those desolute places, and time is such a factor... is it true that many people are still vacationing on the "other side of the islands?" again, maybe the perception we are giving out is causing many to go "what?!"

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Friday, December 31, 2004 - 7:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
here's a site that has before and after satellite pictures of the area

Tsunami area