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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 2:13 am
I know there have been discussions on this in the past, so please forgive my redundancy. But, I searched for a while and couldn't find any current discussions, so I went ahead and started a new thread (I always take a while to get with the times). Please also forgive this long post. But, I do believe in going in as informed as possible when making a rather substantial purchase. Especially when these kinds of things usually rope you into annual contracts and such. So, I'm researching Comcast's DVR, and comparing it to DirecTV with Tivo. I like some of the features on both, but am unclear on some things. I e-mailed Comcast twice and got some good answers. But when I e-mailed them the third time, and asked for the dimensions of the DVR so I could make room for it, they e-mailed me the whole flipping manual and said, "Attached is the manual for the DVR this manual will give all information needed." It took over five minutes to download, and I have DSL. I have to admit I was rather honked at the attitude. I kind of felt like they were saying, "here's the manual. Read the damn thing and stop bugging us." And that's exactly what I told them when I e-mailed them yet again, along with letting them know I am now also researching DirecTV for packages, services, and customer service. Just to be clear, I'm not asking anyone here to go out on the Net and research for me. I've already been doing that. But I would like to know if anyone here has one or the other services, and can tell me their experiences. Or, if you switched from one to the other, and why. Or maybe (if you were also researching the two), why you picked one over the other. Also wondering how the customer service is with both companies. And then of course I wonder about reliability. We’ve all seen those cable commercials that say satellite providers have the picture go out when it rains, is windy, or the dog sneezes. Does anyone have a lot of problems with that? If the picture does go out, who foots the bill to come out and fix the dish? And how prompt are they with that? Or am I supposed to be agile enough to climb up on my roof and do it myself? So, here's what I think I know about each company and its service, and what I'm unclear about.... Comcast DVR: Has a dual tuner (Comcast told me the DVR they use is the Motorola DCT 6412). I can record two things at once, or watch one show and record another. With two DVR's, I could record 4 programs at the same time. Cost per month is $9.95 for each DVR as a "rental." Unclear: If I watch "live tv," can I still record two other programs on the DVR? Or, no matter what, do I have to watch TV through one of the tuners?} I'm sort of assuming that regardless of whether you record or not, you have to have one of the tuners set on what you are watching, including if you are watching a previously recorded show. Comcast DVR also has the feature where (as said on their website) you can "record an entire series of your favorite show with the push of a button." Unclear: Am I really just basically telling the DVR to "every Thursday night from 7pm to 8pm" on Channel 4"(our air time for Survivor)? Or would it automatically catch the days when Survivor switches to Wednesday nights for whatever reason. Or if Starting Over gets pre-empted to the wee hours of the night because of whatever programming my local network decides to put in its time slot. What about the nights when Lost runs five minutes over? I know about the option to set the program for a few minutes before and after. But, what if I didn’t know Lost was going to run over, and don’t tell it to record those extra five minutes?} Or what about the stations with shows like ER, Apprentice, Third Watch, where the show starts a couple of minutes before the hour? Also wondering if you can tell it to record only “first run” episodes. DirecTV with Tivo Also has a dual tuner with the “watch one, record the other” feature, or “record two shows at the same time.” I think I read on DTV’s website that I could also watch a previously recorded show, while still recording two shows that were currently going on. This is what led me to ask about that feature on the Comcast DVR. I also understand that this feature is available by having a split signal on the satellite? Unclear: So, if I put a DirecTV with Tivo DVR in two rooms (as in, get two DVRs and put one in my room and one in the living room), do I then get the ability to record 4 shows like I would with two Comcast DVRs? Or, since the DirecTV requires a split satellite signal, do I then have to split it 4 ways? Is that possible?} I understand with Season Pass, I can tell it to record a season of whatever show I tell it to, and it will automatically catch when days are changed, or it will know if it’s a first run episode or a repeat. Unclear:What I’m not sure of is, if a show runs over, or is pre-empted, or starts early (same issue as I had in the Comcast questions), if it will catch those additional minutes. My sis says the same thing about how you can tell it to record a few minutes before and after, but I guess I don’t understand the benefit of a season pass if you have to still do that in order to catch the extra minutes.} DirecTV has a current offer of "4 rooms for ?" (depending on what package you get I think). I've already discussed I want to put one DVR each in two of the rooms. Unclear: What about the two additional rooms? There was something on the DirecTV website about "mirroring" the other rooms. So, do my two additional rooms each get a DirecTV reciever, but they have to be on the same channel as one of the other TV's? I can't watch something different on each of the TV's? Not that I expect all four TV's to be going at the same time, but I just don't know if that would conflict if I'm trying to record or something. It looks like I buy the DVR outright, and its mine? Then a monthly fee for the service? Or is the DVR still belong to DirecTV? What about the dish? Do I buy that too? Well, this ended up being pretty long. I do have lots of questions. Must be why Comcast lost patience with me! And, just as I'm finishing this up, I hear a commercial for Dish Network going on in the other room. Does anyone have that? Any input on how good it is? Thanks in advance for anyone’s advice!
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 7:13 am
I have DVR. You can record two shows at once but you have to be watching one of the channels. You cannot watch one show and record two other channels. That is why it is called a dual tuner, meaning you can tune into two channels at the same time. The size is the same physical size as my previous cable box. I have a scientific American DVR box but my box is also an hdtv dvr, which really isnt any difference than the dvr box I had before I got my hdtv. I do record series all the time, I record west wing, 24, Jon Stewart, American Idol, Survivor so that I dont feel tied to the TV set. You have the option to record shows the first time they are run which is great for a show like Jon Stewarts which airs the same show three times a day but I set it to record the first time it airs. You record the show, not the time. So you will record the show Survivor everytime it airs. The only problem I have encountered is that sometimes it cuts off the end of a show (particularly on channels like Comedy Central which apparently do not stick to the exact minute a show goes over so I set my DVR to record for two minutes after a show ends. You can pretty much set up your options however you want.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 9:24 am
Whogirlie, I completely understand why you are asking all of these questions. It is a pretty big investment to get into DVR. I would TOTALLY want to be informed before I shelled out a ton of money!! I agree with Maris about how the various systems tape certain "shows" instead of "times". I have tried to tape sporting events, but if they run long, I miss the most crucial part. I either tape the show following, or set it to end a few minutes later, depending on what I'm taping. That said, I have to admit, I'm in Canada, and using different services. I love the concept of DVR, Tivo and similar services were not licensed up here yet. So the first thing I bought was a Windows Media Centre computer. It has a TV tuner, and an "electronic program guide", and I tape shows based on the EPG. When I click on a show in the EPG, it will ask if I want to just "record" or "record series". If I choose to record the series, I can then choose a few options like only first run, or first run and rerun; I can choose for it to end later, but only by a few minutes, which sucks if a football game goes into overtime; and I can choose a daily limit of that show to tape, and a few other things. On the Media Centre PC, I cannot record a show, and flip channels at the same time. However, I CAN watch a previously recorded program, while it records something else. Another DVR option I have is a DVD Recorder with hard drive. I LOVE IT. Basically, it is like a VCR in that it can record based on time, but it ALSO has a feature that allows it to connect to your cable box, and it will synchronize with your cable box's EPG. I subscribe to digital cable through our local cable provider, and it has the EPG in it. through the DVD recorder, it will do the same stuff as Tivo. I find the benefit of THIS route, is that the DVD recorder is not just limited to taping TV shows. It will also play DVDs, and I can also record TO DVDs. So I can record a show onto my hard drive, and then if I want to save it, or give a copy to a friend, I can burn it to DVD. the BEST thing about that feature, is that because it first records to the hard drive, I can "snip" out commercials, before putting in onto DVD. Another great thing about the DVD recorder is that it will record from other sources too. Like if you want to hook up your VCR to one of its auxilliary inputs, you can also put all of the stuff you have on VCR tape to DVD now. So if you have home movies or anything like that, or even shows you've taped in the past, they can all be transferred to DVD now. I love that feature, because I can now do that whole bunch of transferring, and get RID of my 3 cardboard boxes of old VCR tapes of stuff I want to keep!! I think the great thing about the DVD recorder with hard drive is that it doesn't require extra monthly payments to any service. And you can still get all the same features. Plus you get the ability to record from other sources, as well as taping based on "time". I'm probably not the BEST person to explain all of this, and if you have any questions, let me know and I'll try to help. I am not sure about the services that are available to you in the States, but I figured I'd mention the DVD recorder, because it was a good investment, and is more flexible than the Tivo type stuff. I find that checking out "reviews" of the various services you are looking into is a good way to find out the pros and cons of these devices. I like www.cnet.com for most of my technology queries. They do the professional review of things, AS WELL AS offering an area where people give their own personal opinions. It was there that I read that Tivo is on the verge of bankruptcy, and looking for someone to buy it. Good stuff at that cnet site. Good luck!! PS - Good for you for writing back about the poor customer service.
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Bob2112
Member
06-12-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 10:18 am
I'll answer your DirecTivo questions. With 2 DirecTivo's in 2 rooms you can record 4 shows at the same time. You also can view previously recorded shows while recording 2 other shows on each tuner. Each tuner requires 2 inputs, so you would need 4 outputs from the satellite dish. The dish from DirecTV has a 4 output switch built-in, so you would not need any additional hardware (like a 5X8 switch) until you wanted to add a 3rd receiver. It is possible to have as many outputs as you need by adding additional switches. It is not the same as splitting a cable signal. My 8 output switch cost me $75, but you will not need this for 2 receivers. All DVR's that record based on the show are dependent on the guide data. If a show starts later due to a sporting event or something else running longer and the guide data is not update (which it likely will not be), then you will miss part of the show. The season pass will catch the couple of minute changes that several programs seem to make each week (like Alias running from 8:03 to 9:02 one week and then 8:01 to 9:03 the next week). Last week Jeopardy was preempted on Monday for an Academy Awards recap showand moved to some time in the middle of the night. The season pass recorded it and we watched it on Tuesday. I would have to guess about the mirroring, but it probably means just running the output of one receiver into different TV's. You would still only have 2 receivers, but you could watch shows in different rooms. This works well if you have one room that primarily gets used at night and another that would get used during the day. With DirecTivo, you usually own the hardware and you only pay $5.00 a month for the Tivo service, regardless of how many DirecTivo's you have. There is no lifetime option like the standalone Tivo's have. I had Dish Network for 4 years and have now had DirecTV for the past 15 months. We had a PVR with Dish Network and it was not as nice as the DirecTivo and our overall monthly bill was a little higher with Dish Network. The Tivo contract With DirecTV will run into 2007, so it should still be around for at least a couple of years. DirecTV is currently saying they will not be renewing the contract after that because they want a better deal from Tivo. It's too early to tell if they are serious or just posturing. Even if they turned off support for Tivo in 2007, the DirecTivo would still function as a receiver, so you would not be completely dead in the water. You can add a DVD recorder after the DirecTivo (as well as a VCR) if you want to be able to dump recorded shows to DVD or VHS tape.
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Bob2112
Member
06-12-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 10:38 am
With regards to service outages, my experience has been much better with the satellite dish than with cable. In over 5 years of using a satellite dish, we have only had 1-2 times per year of interrupted service. This has usually occurred during heavy driving rains and typically has lasted from 5-30 minutes. Once the rain dies down, the signal usually corrects itself. Snow collecting in the dish would also cause you to lose the signal. Again, once it is cleaned out, the signal comes back. With cable we have lost the signal for several days at a time due to cables being dug up by neighbors or road crews. Even quickly fixed outages have lasted several hours. With a dish, the equivalent of this would be a satellite blowing up or failing. Even then, there are multiple satellites for both Dish and DirecTV and programming can be moved around between them. If your dish is properly mounted, wind should not cause a problem, nor does regular rain or snow. Most people I know who have shakey satellite reception either did not have the dish mounted to an immovable object (one friend had it mounted to a post in a pot with cement, but the pot would move and blow over in the wind) or did not have a clear enough view to the south to get a strong signal. Also, I do have a cable modem from Comcast and that has had may more and longer outages over the past 4 years than the dish has.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:28 am
Bob!!! go talk to me in the ALias thread!!!!!
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:36 am
who, you and i have talked about dvr, and i have had no cable outtages in the past 7 years or so with comcast. you said you were currently with comcast. what is your normal outages with them? and the series recording for DVR works just like bob's does for directivo.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:45 am
I haven't had any cable outages either with Time Warner in many years. I will say this, the first time I had digital service installed I had to get them to tweak the strength of the signal coming into my house as the video was breaking up. Once that was fixed it was fine. I have never had a problem with dvr other than as Bob said, when a sports event or something goes over the recording doesnt allow for that, but that is the same with having a vcr. You can get around it by recording for an extended period after the show is scheduled to end.
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 2:24 pm
I have tivo and love it! When you choose to record a show, it records the whole show - whether it's an extended time or not. The only time this has not occurred has been when their was a "live" interruption (for breaking news, usuallY) and the station actually let the entire show run. Then, the "guide" is not accurate because it can't foretell the news! LOL We actually got a second tivo just this week. We've had local channels (EST) and California channels (because we were so far out in the boonies originally we got waivers from the "local" channels. We had NY and CA channels, but dropped NY when our local channels became available). It was great...we could watch Survivor AND Joey and record both (one at 8 and one at 11). Then we found out this month, that a law has been passed that does not allow DirecTV to give up both "local" and "distance" channels. We have to pick one. Since our cables weren't set up for 2 lines to the TIVO, it would have meant making holes in our walls or extra lines running across a room to get the 2 shows at one time deal, so we opted to get a second tivo upstairs so we can record both shows at the same time. Anyway -- we LOVE it, we highly recommend it, and based on your personal experience, I'd also say DirecTV has better customer service! My parents even switched from Dish Network to DirecTV w/ tivo a few months ago. More stations, more option, and again -- better customer service!
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 3:35 pm
Thank you so much for all the input so far! Comcast already e-mailed me back, and explained they tried to find dimensions, but were unable. I have yet to hear back from DirecTivo. But I e-mailed both last night. I didn't expect to hear back from either of them till at least Monday. So at least it looks like Comcast is available over the weekend for contacts! So, it looks like ComcastDVR is the same as Tivo. I assume that also means if a show is pre-empted, as long as the TV Guide updates it too? We've had the occasional cable outages, but usually in the wee hours of the night (which we're usually up for, what with my nightowl mom and all). But its usually fixed by the next day. Oh, and this is all your fault landi! Our discussions have led me to wanting to do this upgrade! I'm excited. This is going to be very fun! One of the things I'm most looking forward to is getting a tv in the kitchen. Mom always seems to get hungry right when the show I've been waiting for all day long finally comes on! Now I'll be able to cook, and still watch my show! Also looking forward to having easier access to the shows I've taped and not had time to watch. Currently, I have a tape for "this week's" Starting Over, one for "last weeks" since I'm a week behind. And then one for the prime time shows we record when we're watching something else. Now I won't have to have tapes sitting around all over the place! Or have to worry about taping over something I hadn't watched yet!
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 6:47 pm
I thought of another question! When recording a "series," does it only last for that season? Or will it pick it up again when the new season starts? I'm wondering cause we're nearing the end of the season it seems.
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Bob2112
Member
06-12-2002
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 7:11 pm
Some shows carry over from season to season and others do not. "The Amazing Race 7" had a different name from "The Amazing Race 6", so a new season pass was needed. Since the guide data usually goes out almost 2 weeks, the easiest thing to do is to look at the "To Do" list and see if the upcoming shows were picked up automatically. Tivo also has Wishlists that allow you to record shows based on keywords and several different category settings, so you could record all Reality shows with Survivor in the title or all shows that list Jeff Probst on the show or every Premiere. I have a Wishlist for all Premieres, but I don't have it automatically record. Every few weeks I click on it and "View Upcoming Episodes" to see if anything comes up that sounds interesting. Then I just click on the show and create the Season Pass and forget about it for a couple of weeks. The Tivo Community has a forum for Season Pass Alerts and tips on shows that seem to have questionable guide data. Some networks like USA are notoriously bad for not providing the information that indicates whether or not a show is first run, so sometimes the default season pass options have to be tweaked to only get the episodes you want. The Tivo Community is a great place to get all your Tivo questions answered. They have an entire forum dedicated to DirecTivo.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 7:29 pm
Bob, you are a tech guru...I bow down to you!! 
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 10:05 am
With TiVo you can also set up to record either just new episodes, or new episodes and repeats. So for example you could set a Season Pass for ER on "new episodes" and year after year it would catch only the new Thursday night NBC ERs, or you could set it to tape repeats as well, and you'd catch the old episodes they show late at night as well. There really is a lot of power. Also TiVo will catch second showings of shows if you couldn't tape the first showing. For example on Wednesday night at 9pm TiVo tapes Alias and West Wing for me, but as it has to miss Jack and Bobby (it can only do two shows at once) it will automatically catch the second showing of Jack and Bobby on Sunday. You can be quite sneaky with this, with TiVo you give a priority to your season passes, so if you know you have a show that repeats, makes sure it has a lower priority than the ones that don't repeat, then it will catch them all correctly. I don't know if this is just rumour, but I heard a couple of weeks ago that Comcast DVRs wouldn't be able to fast forward through some Fox shows (I think they were 24 and American Idol) due to some agreement between Fox and Comcast. I didn't hear anyone complaining about it afterwards, so either it hasn't happened yet, or Fox changed its plans.
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 11:32 am
with comcast dvr, let's say you want to record the show "smallville". well, smallville has regular new shows, repeats, and it is also being shown on the family channel i think. with the dvr you can record any combination of them without having to have a "season pass" it will ask if you only want to record on the channel you're currently seeing (such as the WB) or all "smallville" shows. and you only have to do this once.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, March 07, 2005 - 12:40 pm
Yes, that's a good or bad point about TiVo, depending on your opinion, you have to set individual passes for each channel, so in the case above, if you wanted repeats on the family channel, rather than just the WB channel, you'd have to set up two Smallville season passes. Who, I think you've prompted a long list of people's favourite and least favourite things about their tv systems! Whichever you choose I can't imagine you'll regret it. I just love being able to watch shows on my schedule not the tv's.
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Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 3:00 pm
Whoami: I don't have a DVR but just wanted to warn you that DirecTV raised their rates by $3/month only last year and I just received a notice that they were raising them another $3/month beginning March 1st. I'm seriously irked at them about this and am considering either signing up with Dish Network or going back to old-fashioned Antenna TV. I'd miss some of the satellite channels but the cost is just getting ridiculous. Since I'm already ranting, I may as well admit that I'm convinced most radio stations s*ck now because "they're" trying to make us all switch to pay radio too, lol.
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 2:34 am
Thanks for all the input! Its very helpful! DirecTV finally e-mailed me back, stating they were "excited" in my interest in DirecTV. They didn't answer a single one of my specific questions. It looked like a form letter. I e-mailed back and told them so. No answer yet. I'll probably end up sticking with Comcast, since that's who we already have, and upgrading to the digital and the DVR.. Looks like the pros and cons even each other out between the two. But, I still have to get the extra TV's, so who knows if my mind will change in the meantime!
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 8:45 am
One thing I forgot to tell you that you should keep in mind about the DVRis that basically the box has a mini hard drive on it, the saved shows are not in the cable network. So I had to swap my DVR when I first got it and all my saved shows and programmed saved shows were lost. I had to reprogram the box again to record all the shows I needed recorded. It is a downside that you dont have a hard copy of what you have saved.
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 10:00 am
maris, all you have to do is run the cable through your vcr and tape your shows. i do it all the time if it is something i want for all time. my dvr setup goes like this: DVR -> VCR -> TV.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 10:27 am
Dont have a vcr, threw it out when I bought the DVD and got DVR. lol
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Jagger
Member
08-07-2002
| Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 10:43 am
Who I've done a lot of price comparing between the dish, Direct TV, and Comcast. From what I have found is that if your getting just basic programing Comcast is cheapest. If you are getting all the pay stations The Dish Network is the cheapest. I ended up switching to The Dish, which we rent the boxes and the DVR versus buying them out right, that way if there is any problems with them they will come out and replace or fix for free. I also noticed that the picture is clearer with the Dish than it was with digital Comcast. I switched mainly because Comcast was raising the price every couple of months. I also kept the very basic cable because it was only $15.99 a month and with having Comcast high speed internet I got $15.00 bucks off the price of cable so I am only paying $.99 cents for the limited basic cable. Now if the dish goes out at least I still have my regular channels. Good luck on what ever you choose.
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 11:05 am
i have a combo - vcr/dvd, i have to have a vcr, since i have never gotten around to putting all of our holly movies on dvd (we always watch her first year on her birthday.) it makes us all cry as it has my mother's voice and video (deceased 1997) and chuck's mother's voice and video (deceased 2000) on it. but it is so worth it, because when holly was born, they were both healthy and vibrant women. there is still so much on vhs tapes that we just don't have on dvd yet.
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 9:34 pm
Well, cable guy came and went. Not real pleased yet, but we'll see.... He brought the two DVR's as ordered, but apparantly only one works. He shrugged, said he had no more, and told me to call Comcast and set up a "service call." Now they won't be here till Friday, and "if" the technician determines its their equipment, they won't freaking charge me for the service call. Gee, how nice. He didn't even stick around to show me how to use it (the one that works, that is). He also told me I can't record two programs at the same time, even though the Comcast website touts that as a big bonus, and its one of the main reasons I decided to order the dvr. I'm testing it now by setting it to record two news programs. So now its trial/error/read the manual (since he didn't stick around to show me. Heck, he didn't even program the remote to run my vcr and tv). In the meantime, maybe I can ask a few questions here from those who already have the damn thing. (sorry, I'm pretty disgusted right now. I'll probably be in a better mood once the bloody "Brown Family Curse" is worked through and these problems are ironed out). I set it up to record a few series. It had no problem setting up ER and Without a Trace at the same time as series recordings. But when I set it up to do Survivor and Tru Calling, it said "scheduling conflict." So, can I or can't I set up two series at the same time? I thought maybe it was because I did the "one minute before and one minute after" thing, so I started to try and edit the series, and the whole damn DVR turned OFF! I turned it back on, and now its re-loading the whole tv menu again (everything says "to be announced" like it did when he first installed the dvr)..... That leads me to the next question....do I have to leave the DVR on 24/7 in order for it to catch the series recordings? Looks like once I turn it off, it needs to re-boot or something, and won't record unless its turned on. I'll probably have more questions. But Mom is hungry and I'm supposed to be cooking her something right now.
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Draheid
Moderator
09-09-2001
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 10:18 pm
Whoami: It looks like your Survivor & CSI are conflicting since they run back to back on the same network. If you set either to a minute early/late then they overlap and one can't record. Since you are trying to get Tru Calling & CSI at the same time, either one will conflict with Survivor if you pad the time on it. However, since the 'working' DVR is already rebooting on you without a good reason, I would suggest you call your cable operator and advise them to bring two units out on Friday to swap with. And I would suggest you just play with the one while it's working but don't put a lot of effort into programming until you have one that you know is reliable. Hope that helps.
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