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Archive through December 30, 2004

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: 2005 Mar. ~ 2005 May: The Tsunami Tragedy: ARCHIVES: Archive through December 30, 2004 users admin

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Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 5:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I was a bit surprised to not see a centralized location to discuss this. I did a search on the word tsunami, and found a smattering of discussions across the board. I hope nobody minds a central area to discuss and offer prayers.

I've seen some talk about people they are worried about in the area, but I'll leave that up to those who want to post it here, rather than take their words for my own.

I found an interesting article about how the wildlife was virtually unaffected. Seems like the animals may have sensed the approaching disaster, and sought higher ground.

Tsunami Kills Few Animals in Sri Lanka.

Makes you wonder. I've heard several reports on how many people could have been saved if there had been an early warning system in place, but the areas affected couldn't afford such sophisticated devices. If only they could have realised they may have had a built in natural warning system in place all along.

Such a sad, sad tragedy. I pray and feel so much for these people. And for anyone at TVCH who may know someone in the area, my prayers go out to you too.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 7:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Or, it's possible that the animals didn't fight against the currents that surrounded them. And instead floated along with the rest of the debris until they reached stable footing. I think it's possible that those who tried to remain stationary (by holding on to a building or tree) were battered by debris that crashed into them. It may be instinctual for animals to simply float along until they reach shore.

Then again, they all must've felt the earthquake. And they could've felt the vibrations as the tsunami wave headed for shore. And fled for their lives!

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 7:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
What is interesting about this earthquake and subsequent tsunami is that it has affected the SIZE of the earth, and now the earth will be rotating a bit faster as a result. Some islands have moved over 30 meters!!

I have been GLUED to my news channels the past few days. I have no clue why. Maybe I am just in awe of how LARGE an area was affected by it.

I am also a little conflicted inside myself, knowing that the government of Thailand is bending over backwards for the "tourists". I think it kind of sucks that there is some big double standard over there as to who gets the most immediate help. That just doesn't sit right with me. I may sound "holier than thou" by saying this but, I think that the people who lost their ENTIRE HOME AND BUSINESS should be the ones who get first help. Gosh, the tourists at least get to GO HOME and back to their cushy lifestyles (I'm not taking into account the possible emotional strain of losing loved ones while there). But the locals have nowhere to go. They are stuck in the nightmare. Help them first.

I say give the tourists a phone, let them call people to tell them they are safe, and that's it. From there, I think priority relief should go to those who lost the most.

Just my VERY humble opinion. I just feel so bad for the locals out there.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 7:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
they think it is like the earth compacted, like a ice skater spinning? something like 3 microseconds (faster)is the theory, on NPR...

Rueters Web Reference

I too have been glued to CNN, and dh gave me a link that I've never been to, gotta love my geek!!

working Link

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 7:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
India’s map may have to be changed.

“A very important and integral part of our country’s border is totally submerged,” said Milind Patil, a senior coast guard official.

Indira Point, so named by the late Rajiv Gandhi after his mother on a visit to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, was the southernmost tip of India until Sunday’s earthquake-triggered tsunami swamped it.

A defence official likened the submergence to the loss of peaks during the Kargil war to Pakistan. It may not be the only area that has fallen off India’s map. Nor may it be the only change in the topography of the Nicobar islands.

Patil, the coast guard commander of the Nicobar islands, said some of the islands had tilted.

The Telegraph

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 8:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Anyone that goes to the Fishbowl and reads and enjoys the posts by Lucile might like to know that she lost three family members there and 2 more are missing.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 9:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
On CNN tonight, they showed some of the more remote areas of Aceh province in Indonesia that are still inaccessible. The video was taken by a British pilot two days ago, but currently no planes can land in these areas, and they are not accessible by boat or car. The areas are as if they have been completely disintegrated, the area was completely flattened. There was one town that formerly had over 13,000 residents. The pilot's film showed only 30 or 40 people, huddled on a hillside. No other signs of life.

I am speechless.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 9:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Now showing the video again of a town called Mulabo, of 45,000. Only one/third of the buildings are still standing.

The town of Chulan (sp?) - completely destroyed, nothing left at all. A town of 13,000.

Many smaller towns in between are the same, completely flattened with no signs of life from the video.

It's incredibly eerie watching the video, there is just no movement at all in some of these towns.



Cathie
Member

08-16-2000

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 9:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
My cousin, her husband and their three children live in Indonesia, but are fortunately home here for the holidays. They have not been able to contact their friends and neighbors and do not know the status of their home or belongings. Her husband works for an oil company on off-shore rigs, so if they had been there he may have been among the missing. They were originally going to return to Indonesia on Jan. 8, but that is kind of up in the air right now. We are so thankful that they came home for Christmas!

Tabbyking
Member

03-11-2002

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 9:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
wow, cathie....really brings it home. i'm so happy your cousin and her family were in the states.
the devastation is overwhelming...

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 11:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Speechless is a good word Kar.

With so many reports of people being swept out to sea, and of so many mass graves from unidentified/uncliamed bodies. I just can't fathom what survivors will be going through, likely for the rest of their lives. There are bound to be countless incidences where people will never know the true fate of their loved ones.

I am curious....just how are they arriving at these numbers for the death tolls? Are they estimated? Are these confirmed body counts?

Cathie, I'm glad to know your cousin and her family are safely here. But I can't imagine what they are going through, being so far away from home and knowing the devastation there. Prayers to them.

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 11:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I heard today that the death toll might double once they take the looming threat of disease into account.

I, too, have been glued to my cable news. I do this everytime there is a tragedy. I can't explain why. I sit there and force myself to watch and put myself in their shoes. It is sick. I make myself feel their pain so I can know a smidgeon of what the victims go through. Do I do this out of guilt? I don't know. My hubby always makes me stop but I never feel I can, like I am doing a disservice to them by not watching...I can't explain it but I know it sure isn't the healthiest thing.

Then I go on my kick where someone will be complaining about the big snow storm and I'll say something like,"yeah, you think you got it bad. Think about those who lost 3 generations of their family in the tsunami!"

I know, I know. I didn't say it was right. I just can't stop myself!

Abby7
Member

07-17-2002

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 6:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I can't begin to express my sorrow for what these people have had to experience.

Even before the disease spreads, I fear that the count may be almost 200,000 dead.

Before the internet, I used to like reading the yearly Almanac for information (i'm boring that way :>)).

I was amazed to read the death toll from earthquakes.

So, for that reason, I fear the death toll will be much higher (even before disease sets in).

I pray that won't be the case and hate being a pessimist. I think I'm just preparing for the worst news, so I feel somewhat better with "better news". Sounds strange, but I think I do that sometimes. Just to make myself feel better (in the end) in some strange way.

I don't know, I'm just feeling so much right now for those who are really hurting.


Hootyhoot
Member

12-18-2001

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 9:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Who, I'm glad you started this thread ... I looked for it before and there was none. Anderson Cooper's two hour show last night on CNN was a heartbreaker. I watched as much of it as I could, but sometimes I just had to take a break. And I have no ties to anyone from there, although I have visited Thailand and loved it. I can't even imagine how it must feel if you are from one of the affected countries.

Eeyore, I think Thailand is very dependent on tourists, so they need to do the best they can for them in the hopes that they can get the tourist industry back sometime in the future. I'm guessing that more than half the population in an area like Phuket supports itself on tourism money.

Fabs ... I actually wondered if I should go there to help! Decided against it ... age and three back operations and no medical skills make me a less than ideal volunteer. I made donations through savethechildren.org and the Salvation Army ... and I'll be ready to jump at the chance to go to Thailand again soon to help the tourist industry! (It's a beautiful country ... flowers and smiles everywhere. Wonderful food, wonderful people).



Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 10:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Eeyores..I've been thinking about your post about the tourists and heard one guy interviewed (an official in one of the countries) last night who kind of addressed it in the way I had figured it might be..

Basically, the local agencies and communities (when they are still there) are working with the local communities in trying to determine who is still missing, and to identify the dead, as well as advertise who has been found but not reunited with family..

But the tourists .. they really need to make those situations (photos of the dead, photos/info on the lost, like the little Swedish boy) and also to publicize those families who are ok, or part of the family is ok, to know who they seek out, and to solicit families of tourists to come forward from their home countries, if needed.. for all that they need the international coverage, or, if they know the nation, need to direct coverage to that country.

As quickly as possible, they want the tourists' situations to be resolved and for them to leave the devastated areas.. this way they aren't using relief resources and can rely on their own medical/social systems/families at home for support. Of course in some cases, able bodied tourist ARE remaining to join in the relief effort.

So in many cases it isn't that they are downgrading the pain of the many local people.. just trying to reach out for the tourists.

And as one of my Kiwi friends pointed out, each country will be covering this from their own perspective, so her local papers in Christchurch are giving more detail on the lost and surviving tourists or expats from New Zealand, the Australian press gives more detail on the Aussie contingent, and so on.

Meanwhile, the numbers have soared past 115,000 and are destined to rise sharply.

Also the other day someone being interviewed pointed out that the very presence of so many tourists is what gets much more publicity, and thus, more aid sent in.. years ago when over 50,000 Romanians perished in a major quake, it simply didn't get the massive publicity.. it was still behind the "iron curtain" and wasn't a tourist area.

Also think about it.. as Bastable said in the news and views discussion (and due to the nature of N&V, I do thank Who for starting this thread) when you've BEEN to the places, as he has, it is so much more REAL, the people are real, etc., so it makes sense that the very presence of so many tourists, and the fact that they ARE being "handled" will tend to produce that many more people who will go back home and live with more compassion for other peoples.

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 10:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Oh and the seeming anomaly of the animals.. that was also the subject of some interview last night (and I'm not sure which one or which network, sorry) but that was based on a flyover of a large preserve where the animals did have access to higher ground.. the person being interviewed did not think that animals caught up in the flood waters had much more chance than humans.. if you are swept out to sea and pulled under, you are probably gone, same if you are hit by large debris..

But it is certain that the animals may have been more alerted by the quake and also able to respond to other frequencies of sound unavailable to humans..

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
So... more weirdness to add to things. Here in San Diego, our water level has risen just over 8". This is due to the displacement of water from an earthquake half a world away. Bizarre to think of it, yes? Even if it is really a miniscule amount.

Indonesia is now reporting almost 80,000 dead. This is what ALL countries, totalled, reported yesterday. This is just beyond imagination.

WRT to the tourists... the tourist industry was a major source of revenue to those cities, and families, who have been devastated. I'm sure somewhere in the back of their minds, officials are concerned that tourism will fall off in the wake of this disaster and therefore will slow down a return to a self-sufficient industry.

And today, some relief efforts are delayed due to bad weather (to add to the misery, it's now raining in parts of the region!).

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
One last note: Amazon.com has now collected the following for the American Red Cross Disaster Relief:

Total Collected: $5,016,283.50
# of Payments: 81470


Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think they are right to worry about tourism. As I posted elsewhere, after St. Croix was almost leveled by hurricane Hugo in 1989, they have never come back. At the time of the hurricane, they had over 3000 hotel "units" for vacations. Fifteen years later, they have barely over 1000, a loss of almost two-thirds.

Tourism provides the lifeblood and income to these areas. Without the dollars tourism brings, they will never be able to rebuild.

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 11:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Miracle girl survives tsunami on a door

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041229/od_afp/asiaquakeindiagirl_041229173535

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 12:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The death toll is now at 140,000 countable. 1/3 are children. They fear they have only counted about 60% casualties. This subject has been discussed at length in the 'news and views' under "family values or hypocrisy" thread. They are also estimating a need for close to 35 billion in repair and rebuild costs. The US is joining with India, Australia and Japan as well as other countries to meet this goal. They are also going to insue a warning system for at risk locations. Fleet after fleet with onboard hospitals and the ability to create drinking water have been sent by many many countries to meet the needs of those still living. As I have said before, everyone is coming together to help aid in the relief efforts. Now is not the time to bash the US government for what it is or is not doing, or other countries, corporations, and organizations. Now is a time for togetherness, love, charity, faith, prayer, giving, and a time to count your blessings.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 12:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
oh, Escapee, I'm thrilled to hear that so many are helping.

But I hope we never get to a point where we are not able to critique ourselves or others and say we/they ought to be doing more, if that's what we think.

I agree it is a time also for all those good things you talked about. But talking about where we might be falling short is healthy and honest as well. And often very necessary!

Fabnsab
Member

08-07-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 1:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think another part of treating the tourists so well is so their prospective countries don't get mad at them. They'll be much more generous with the funding if they know their own people are being looked after.

I certainly hope they drop the exorbitant price of overseas adoption after this disaster. I know people who have taken second mortgages out in order to adopt a baby overseas. My husband and I are not rich but we have a good home and we would seriously consider adopting one of these orphans if they let up on the fee. I know they need the money but sometimes the childs welfare has to come first with the great need they will be facing with orphans.

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 1:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Costa, actually the one man came right out and said that they MUST reassure the tourist industry and get it back on its feet.

Another completely different interview talked about how the big corporations that own the bigger resorts (or less small ones) are insured and can rebuild (of course that may be a bit of an overstatement since there should/will be higher standards for building, and the infrastructure must be rebuilt too.. but anyway they wanted rebuilding but of course were worried about the mom and pop businesses that have been wiped out, along with part or all of many families :-(

The biggest mass disaster in terms of numbers was Bangladesh in 1970, from flooding..

Well I went and got the article and the chart:

1908 Italy, toll around 125,000 from earthquake
1920 China, toll 200,000 from earthquake
1923 Japan, toll around 140,000 from earthquake
1927 China, toll around 200,000 from earthquake
1948 Turkmenistan, toll around 110,000 from earthquake
1970 Bangladesh, toll 300,000 from flooding
1970 Peru, toll 60,000, from earthquake
1976 China, toll 245,000 from earthquake
1990 Iran, toll 50,000 from landslide
1991 Bangladesh, toll 130,000 from flooding
1003 Iran, toll40,000 from earthquake

Mind-boggling.. and how the numbers rise with each report, too.

Oh and I've heard more reports about the lack of animal casualties, so it wasn't just the game preserve residents, apparently.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 3:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I completely understand WHY those countries are taking care of the tourists from an economical standpoint. It just doesn't sit right with me that economy and industry come before humanity.

I saw a report last night about how some ppl who were out there, but were unharmed, have decided to stay and help however they can. This group of 5 businessmen were out there with their work, and they weren't harmed, and their company said they could stay out there to help out, and that others at home would do their share of the office work, in order to allow those guys to stay and help. That makes me smile.

If anyone cares, there is also some discussion of the Canadian contributions HERE.