Author |
Message |
Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 3:41 pm
speak for yourself Denecee. Maris, thanks for the story. My oddest spanking story comes from when I was working as a customer service manager for one of those catalog sales chain back in my early 20s. I was working with a customer who was returning a defective product and as I was talking to her, her older child (about 6ish) smacked the younger (about 4ish) across the chest, hard. The younger started crying. The mother without missing a beat, backhanded the older kid across the face, saying "don't hit your younger brother!" At which point the older kid started wailing as well. Smart mouth that I've always been I said "oh, now THAT was effective." She just smiled proud as punch and said, "yes it is" apparently not getting my sarcasm.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 3:51 pm
I am sorry, I shouldnt laugh at that it is horrible. But it sure says it all. Reminds me of a scene I witnessed with a friend of my sons when he cursed and the mother said I told you not to use that f'ing word, smack.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 3:59 pm
geez, that's sad!!!
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 4:02 pm
It is, I truly believe if people were shown videos of themselves in these situations they would be shocked.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 4:08 pm
Absolutely!!! I firmly believe in positive reinforcement. (I have an awesome child to prove it works =))
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Citruscitygal
Member
08-07-2003
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 4:43 pm
My son is 30 (no grand kids on the horizon) so I’m not sure how I ended up in the terrible twos thread. My mom was one of those hippy radicals (I'll take that as a compliment) who didn’t spank & I’m very grateful that she was ahead of the times, so to speak, for 1947. (Boy, I'm dating myself here.) I was raised without being spanked and I raised my son without spanking. My thanks to all who are using their voice to speak for children’s rights, especially the right not to be spanked or hit in any way. Some of what I’ve read here makes me sad, but I also find hope that there are many parents who have chosen a different, and in my belief, better way to teach/guide/discipline their children.
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 7:07 pm
I completely agree -- there are so many different "forms" of spanking -- and the kind that is automatic, in anger or frustration is the worst. I find it interesting that even after most of us who support some form of spanking stopped posting, the thread continued for sooooo long. Now -- how 'bout spanking spouses?? (Maybe that belongs in another thread???)
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-22-2004
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 7:24 pm
Um, I really can't say anymore in this thread. Thanks to those who replied - I'll remember to think twice before posting as I have been offended by some of what's been said and I know it's my own fault for starting this discussion. 
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 8:05 pm
Grace -- I truly hope I didn't say anything at all to offend you. You came asking for help, and we got WAY off topic. Hopefully somewhere, something was said that will help w/ your situation about the biting. Like I said at the very beginning, my DS never did that, so I really don't know what would work. Please accept my apologies for anything that hurt your feelings. 
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 8:10 pm
Grace, I don't know what's wrong. Sorry. As to discipline..etc.. I found that rewarding children when they are good and giving them loving support works. They soon learn that good behavior gets attention. I know this is controversial to a lot of people. I'm not even stating anything about spanking..although I don't advocate it. Some children find the only attention they get is from discipline. They soon learn to misbehave will get Mommy or Daddy's attention. (Full attention) INSTEAD.. give them praise and love when they are good. Stop whatever you are doing and give them attention. Then praise them for doing a good job. The praise has to be heartfelt and genuine. Over time, the good behavior starts to be normal. In other words, accentuate what's right and not what's wrong. I also use words like Terrific Twos. Children hear the critical words said to others about them. I hear parents complaining about their children right in front of them! That can't help their self-esteem. I know it also works with my students in class. They are much more attentive and positive. (They don't know I use positive reinforcement =))
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Nickovtyme
Member
07-29-2004
| Friday, April 08, 2005 - 8:25 pm
Grace, I was never trying to hijack this thread and make it go the tangent it did, that was never my intent. I just wanted to share a personal experience. I should have stayed out of it...my mom always told me I didn't know how to keep my mouth shut.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 6:02 am
Grace, way back, I suggested the book Magic 1-2-3 by Thomas W. Phellan. It really is an incredible book. I highly recommend it. It's also amazing all the examples he uses. I swear the man was in my house secretly filming! LOL I think it's a great read for all parents of kids 2-12.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 9:07 am
Grace, I am sorry you were offended. Unfortunately, threads here often have a life of their own and go where they will. I do hope you also found some useful tips as well. Nick, personally I am glad you posted. You were an articulate voice in this thread and stated your points well and without rancor. That's really what this thread was about in many ways - sharing personal experiences. I hope you'll "keep your mouth open" more often! I agree with Texannie's suggestion of Magic 123, it is a very helpful book on discipline; in addition it helps you look at why things may not work for you when they seem to work for someone else. Good luck, Grace.
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Moderator
Moderator
06-30-2002
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 10:22 am
Reminder: any questions about moderation MUST be Emailed to the moderators, or sent to the moderator account via PM. (See the moderator profile for Email address or to send a PM.) Thank you. TVCH Moderators
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Pcakes2
Member
08-29-2001
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 11:11 am
Respectfully, these threads don't have a life of their own. They are posts made by real people, and they determine the direction it goes. I must say, there have been several comments made that were just plain ugly. I understand the passion that some people post with, but sometimes we forget that this board isn't really all that annonymous..it's a community...a community of friends. I know everyone has a right to their own opinion, and even if what someone does or believes is something totally opposite from what you believe to be right, please remember that there is another person who is on the receiving end of your post. People post here to share their experiences...some ask for solutions or advice, they don't ask to be judged.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 11:47 am
Pcakes, you're are saying what I meant in a different way. By saying the threads have a life of their own, I meant that the people posting in them may drive the thread in many different directions, often different directions than the orginal intent. Thank you for saying it more clearly. I think it is often like a big noisy (perhaps dysfunctional) family. Everyone has an opinion and we often don't say things with the same grace with which we would like to be treated. It's a fine line between offering advice and being judged, and sometimes that's in the eye of the reader when it isn't always the intent of the writer. I think of it this way, sometimes your own RL relatives or friends say things that could be considered "judgment" of a particular action on your part. They may say you did something stupid, or even plain wrong. At that point, you are free to do with it what you will, consider it, ignore it, get mad about it, or shrug your shoulders and move on. So the responsibility goes both ways - we should be respectful and we should monitor how we decide to react as well. Ultimately, trying to control what other people say is less effective than controlling what you say and how you react to what other people say. It would be great if everyone were tactful and considerate, but that's never going to happen. So you have to take responsibility for what you will do when they are not perfect human beings, or great communicators. To me, nothing that was said here was ugly, on either side. I think people just voiced their opinions on a very volatile and controversial issue. And therefore the reactions are often emotional as well.
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-22-2004
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 12:44 pm
ok I said I wouldn't be back but I lied. I seriously considered not EVER coming back to this board because I was so offended by comments made in this thread. I appreciate all the pms everyone has sent me and I'm not going to tell you who it was in particular offended me. My problem with what's going on over here is that there has been a lot of judging going on. Karuuna and Pcakes2 have both stated how I feel - this is a COMMUNITY. That means we are not alone and when you stand on a soapbox there ARE others hearing (reading) what you say. What someone says may not be a popular opinion, it's still their opinion and therefore is valid. I wonder if that's why the people TeachMichigan is speaking about left the discussion so long ago. . . In this particular thread, you were not asked to attack one another - you were asked for discipline methods. I understand that when SuzyQ posts method A, TommyO is going to post that method A didn't work for him but method D did. But what I don't appreciate is when JohnnyQ comes in and says that TommyO is in the wrong or is sick or makes them sad or anything along those lines for using method D. That IS what happened here. I feel horrible for the people who posted their stories here so honestly and openly for me (the person with the question) and then had others replying so meanly back to them. Come on guys, I have always felt we are more than just a COMMUNITY here, we are a huge dysfunctional family. So while I thank the Moderator for telling me how to report problems here and I really do appreciate all the pms sent to me when I stated I was offended - how about we just agree that we don't all agree on the BEST method for discipling but that there are lots of different ways to attack different situations. All I'm asking is for a little peace on the board.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:08 pm
If anyone was offended by my comments I am sorry but I stand by everything I said. It is just plain wrong to hit a child with a belt, regardless of who is doing it. Do we turn a blind eye because it is someone we respect or do we take a stand about something being done that we believe all the way to our souls is wrong? You may not agree with me and I have to be totally honest I am totally shocked that so few would stand up to defend a child and say that what you are doing is wrong. There is a child out there being hit by a belt, why dont we say we know you are a decent and caring person, please think about what you are doing, do not pick up a belt again. I think it is sad, that the people who cried foul are the ones who are perceived to be the ones who committed the offense. Yes we are a community, some of us are more outsiders than others but that does NOT mean we should circle the wagons around something that is downright reprehensibile. This is the parenting forum, and I think it is very sad that only four or five people in this entire board can say that hitting a child with a belt regardless of the reasons is wrong. That is something you should be ashamed about not that someone stood up and said I dont care who you are hitting a child with a belt is wrong. I dont see any reason to apologize, I see no reason for Karuuna to apologize and if you think I agree with her all the time step into news and views and that notion will be disabused very fast.
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-22-2004
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:15 pm
Maris you just don't get it - it's not about right and wrong. I asked a simple question about methods <RA>
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:17 pm
One of the concerns that I have that is particularly a problem for me in the more personal areas of the board (by personal I mean areas like news & views, parenting, etc.) is that some of the people that I have grown to like may have very opposite strong opinions in these areas. Opinions that differ from mine and differ from each other. I’m not offended by someone having a different opinion than my own. I do worry that they may be offended though and take things personally. I worry about that with anyone, but particularly with people that I have come to enjoy in other areas of the board. Also when dealing with personal issues that we feel strongly about, when someone makes a strong unequivocal statement, it is hard not to take it personally. No one likes it when someone implies that he or she is not a good parent. It’s a big difference than someone criticising your favourite houseguest on Big Brother! Also, it’s not only a matter of what you say but how you say it. Of course that’s only important if you actually care about the person that you are replying to and genuinely want to convince them of your viewpoint. Simply telling someone they are wrong or lazy or something like that doesn’t help. It’s can be a tough area of the board to deal with. ETA: Thanks for staying around Grace!
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:21 pm
quote:... why dont we say we know you are a decent and caring person ...
Good point, but I don't recall that being said before. Perhaps if it had been, the response would have been different.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:24 pm
Nobody said it was wrong for a grown man to hit a little girl with a belt either. Anyone want to step up to the plate on that one? Peace out
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:28 pm
I think that you are placing too much focus on the belt and not enough focus on the force. You could easily hit someone with your hand with an extreme amount of force and you could hit lightly with a belt. (I'm not advocating either, but the emphasis should be on the force used). I agree that the belt implies more force and you could certainly exert more force with a belt but that may not be what is happening. And, yes this bothers me, but I don't know what is actually being done and how much force is being used.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:32 pm
yep it is all about the belt Jimmer and about a man hitting a girl with a belt. That is it for me. Picture a man, taking his belt off or walking to a wall, taking a belt down and taking a little girl into a room to hit her with a belt. So how soft is ok? I am serious. Just how soft a hit makes it acceptable? Maybe it is me, I just dont get people that they think this is ok. If my own brother who I love did it I would be screaming just as loudly.
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 1:34 pm
Yes the image bothers me as well, but I can only hope (and think) that he is not hitting very hard at all. And it would bother me if it was a little boy too.
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