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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:52 pm
Quick story in regard to what we teach our children. We were at my aunts house (crazy aunt) and she was working on her PC, and my grandma and myself were sitting in the front room watching a show on TV. My cousin, her eldest son, who was about 6 at the time, was asking if he could watch a video in the front room. Instead of saying no, she walked in the front room, without saying a word, popped in the video, and walked back out. My cousin plopped himself down on the floor to watch it. We just looked at eachother, got up and left. She taught her son through her actions that he came before us, two adults.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:53 pm
BTW...he had asked us if he could watch it and we told him no that we were watching something, and my aunt heard us say this.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:58 pm
Yes, Escapee, it's about fear as I said. And you fear the person who will give the spanking (I think) not just the spanking, IMO. I can't imagine how a spanking can not hurt. I hope my child always feel free to question, except in issues of safety and the need for immediate action. I want him to know that there is a reason for what I do, it's not arbitary. That's what teaches him to think for himself; so that later he makes the right choices for himself, and not just because "mom said so". Putting a tot in time out is quite easy; although not necessarily advisable. For the most part, for kids under 2, a simple 'no! biting, etc is not okay" and distraction is the best solution. However, for extreme behavior, you can sit quietly with the child in time out. They understand quite a lot, perhaps more than you realize. Most tots will sit in time out if you tell them it is because they did something hurtful or dangerous, and you say it firmly. Children deserve respect too. Just because they are young does not mean that they don't.
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 5:08 pm
Nope -- not afraid of my parents, but had a healthy respect for their rules! Also -- there is a difference between respecting kids and treating them as adults. BIG difference as a matter of fact. W/ regards to "knowing there is a reason for what I do"--I always knew the reason why I was not supposed to do whatever it was I did, but I DID IT ANYWAY! That's part of being a kid -- the results (spanking) taught me to think of consequences and what happens if you don't follow rules -- a life lesson if ever there was one. Heck, after the age of 10, my parents gave us choices - -grounding or spanking, and we almost always took the spanking so the consequences were quick and our social life didn't have interference! LOL My parents respected my right to choose -- even though I had blatantly disrespected their reasonable rules. Maybe the underylying issue here is setting boundaries. Personally, I think if we can teach people to respect boundaries and work within them, society as a whole will be much better off. Now, I solemnly swear not to continue on with this debate -- especially since the original thread was about biting, and we've thoroughly hijacked it! 
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 5:21 pm
I totally, wholeheartedly agree with Karuuna. I also would like a kinder and gentler world. Teaching a kid that is okay to hit just cuz you are bigger is so wrong (to me). A spanking will always hurt and will always each your child to be afraid. I can get my child (and he is as wild as they come) to comply with no violence. It is a lot harder to do than a quick spanking, but I think it is worth the effort. I do not see how magic 1-2-3 is lazy. Using this method is much more exhausting than hitting. (And let's not pretend that a swat or a spanking is NOT hitting or assaulting.)
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 5:24 pm
No need to pretend Julie because it isn't assault. And I just don't understand people who don't realize the difference or that have to condem people who do realize the difference and practice this difference. <RA>
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 6:11 pm
Just for the record, I was not condemning anyone. A hit is a hit, legally there is no difference. To me there is no difference.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 6:49 pm
I never laid a hand on my son, It just wasnt in me and I always regarding spanking as a powerplay. Time outs? Never did those either, I wasn't much into psychobabble. My son is 13, dont have any issues so far but he is just entering his teen years. I can only say that he is trulyl a decent person with a good heart. He feels comfortable talking to me about anything and he also knows what his limits are. Basically my limits with him are all about respect and decency. I basically operated on the premise dont sweat the small stuff and pick your battles. When he was two he threw himself down and had his tantrums, I just said, let me know when you are done. I always took the position that he was a separate human being with rights and deserving of respect and I think if you go with that premise it will work out. I dont think that spanking a kid is giving him or her respect.
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Nickovtyme
Member
07-29-2004
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 7:47 pm
First time for me in the parenting forum and I was compelled to respond. I've been reading through this and I don't think there has ever been a worse biter than my daughter Tara. We have stacks and stacks of papers from her daycare where she has biten another child. The teachers at her daycare were at a loss. We bought books about biting, used Time out, talked to her, made her take care of the child she bit, took her favorite toys away...it was so bad that my wife told me that we could not put her in another daycare because she bites too much and most daycare's would not put up with it. The daycare/pre-school she is at is a school for special needs children though they do accept typical children. Tara is a typical child. Now, she is adopted and as of yet, we aren't sure how her mother treated her or perhaps what she might have done with her body during pregnancy. And Tara is extremely stubborn. She took Terrible Two's to new heights...and it got so bad we had taken her to a child psychologist to see if he could tell us anything we didn't already know. Which, of course, he didn't. Fortunately, he shyed away from prescribing anything...which I would have never filled anyway....but that's for another thread which I'm pretty adamant about. What finally worked was spanking. I'm not talking beating (yes, I realize there is a thin line where spanking can turn to abuse)...Every time a report was brought home, it was given to me and I would take Tara in the bed room and give her a couple solid licks on her bottom. At first, I used my hand...but it migrated to the belt. I never spanked her bare bottom and I always use enough force to get the point across along with verbal affirmation of how bad biting is. Now you can debate good or bad...All I know is she doesn't bite anymore. I can remember the spankings I received as a kid and I tried my best not to get them.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 8:18 pm
I have little to say about your post Nick, except to say that it makes me incredibly sad. I have worked with children from the most horrendous family situations, and with the most horrificly violent behavior problems you can imagine. I have yet to ever prescribe hitting one, or resort to hitting one for their behavior problems, after twenty years of working with abused, troubled children. In every single case of biting we've had, we've been able to deal with the problem through other efforts, often requiring the participation and cooperation of their teachers or caregivers. I wish you would have had a better psychologist working with you.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 8:25 pm
Thinking about that really bothers me a lot. I wish I didn't even know that. Sidenote: My son got bit A LOT when he was in daycare. They said it was a phase that many small kids went thru. I almost moved him to a different daycare but found out the same thing--there will always be biters-especially in the 18-24 month rooms. All I know is the daycare never used physical violence as a form of correction. The daycare should have put one person on "watch" with Tara, until this phase ended. That is what they did with the little boy who kept biting Ryan (and others). I also wonder if she would have stopped biting w/out the belt.
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Nickovtyme
Member
07-29-2004
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 8:52 pm
I'm not going to get into a big uproar about this and I understand where y'all are coming from and I don't want to take away from your opinions...but I did state we had tried everything. And mind you, this was not everyday, though it seemed like it and it took a period of 12 months or more to get her to quit biting. You must realize that this was a last resort for us? I didn't want to have to resort to this more than any of you out there did. We had the cooperation and efforts of her teachers/caregivers, we had the one on one, we had the interventions, we had the therapy, and we're not talking biting one child, she was biting three or four children at a time. It was like it happened in spurts and most happened, (by what the reports said) without provacation from the other child. Again, let me reiterate, we were trying everything any counselor or therapist suggested and none of it seemed to be working. Tara liked to bite and showed little remorse when she did. I know, when you see the pics of her you can't hardly believe that, but, holy cow nothing was making progress. When Tara would come home from daycare and tell me she didn't bit today, I praised her and loved her and showed her it was the best thing in the world. I rewarded her for doing such a good job and eventually it all fell into place. Karuuna, I would have gladly let you work with her and maybe it would have worked out differently. I'm not sad and I don't regret it. I will do what I think is best for my kids and I'm happy that she quit biting so we won't have to go through this again. It was a last resort, it worked and Tara isn't scared of me.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 9:13 pm
Nick, I do realize that almost all parents are doing what they think is best for their children. I certainly don't think there is anyone who posts here who isn't a loving and devoted parent, including and especially you. But it does make me sad that my profession failed you in finding a different method that would have worked for you and Tara. As I said, I have worked with children who are horribly scarred from what they have been through, and it does take some special techniques sometimes to reach them, not all child psychologists have that experience. I am surely either biased, or wise, (depending on your perspective) from my own experiences with these kids.
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 10:13 pm
I have to say I am glad you aren't sad,and you don't regret it Nick. You did what you thought was right,and it worked.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 5:21 am
I would say biased.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 8:09 am
I am sorry, there is absolutely no excuse for taking an object to a child. While I dont agree with using a hand but to decide that a hand isnt inflicting enough pain and moving on to a belt? My son had a problem in day care with a little girl who was biting the heck out of him. Every day he was coming home with a bite. Basically what it took to stop was to put the onus on the day care facility to help the two children. They needed to keep a watchful eye out and see what is provoking the behavior and work with the two children. She did stop after a few weeks but that was because I demanded that the caregivers work with both the children and help them play together.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 8:12 am
Mocha, of course you would say that, since you don't agree. But that's bias, too, isn't it? All I can say is that if working with abused kids pro bono for all those years makes me biased, I wear that label with great dignity and caring. Think what you will of me. 
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 8:14 am
I agree that the daycare is the one who dropped the biggest ball. It is their responsibility to keep all children safe. If they needed to put an extra staff on watch, then that is what they needed to do. I also agree with Maris that to add something to inflict a greater degree of pain (especially in a weight difference of well over 100 pounds) is wrong.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 9:50 am
Yep 
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 11:27 am
I'm not even going to get into the spanking thing because it does make me sad to hear about too. My daughter bit me a few times and what I did was firmly tell her "no bite" and then walk away (mostly so I could calm down). She hated when I would take a time out from her and go hide in my room. It seemed to work. She was a very happy 2 year old and then the terrible 3's hit us. She started hitting at me and spitting at me. It was AWFUL! I yelled, which just egged her on. I took away things, which she laughed about. Finally, I would isolate myself from her by hiding in my room. This is what worked. She didn't like being in this reverse time-out situation. She didn't like that she couldn't open the door and get to me (I put one of those child protector things on the handle). This got us through a VERY rough spell and now she's back to normal discipline of time outs or "no movie tonight", etc. I think the thing I learned at that time was if something isn't working and you feel you've tried it consistently, try something else. Something that worked for a while may suddenly stop working and something that didn't work before may work now. Asking other parents for ideas is the best way to brainstorm things you never even thought of trying.
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 12:26 pm
I agree with Maris, I do not think spanking is respectful. I do not think a child or adult should be hit/spanked/pushed/bit/pinched ever. I know people get very heated about this subject. I am not trying to rile anyone up. I mean this post very respectfully. I do not understand how a 1 or 2 year old can understand an adult's reasons for spanking if they aren't mature enough to understand and stay in time out. With so much of a child's behavior being imitative (especially imitative of his/her parents), how is a 1 or 2 year old going to think anything but "mommy didn't like what I did so she hit me. I will hit when I don't like something."? I am truly asking respectfully because I am interested in people's opinions. I do not mean any criticism.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 1:50 pm
Spare the rod, spoil the child. But it seems that we are at an impasse. You either agree or you don't. And I don't believe the folks here are talking about spanking a 1 or 2yr old. Smacking a 1 or 2yr old on the hand and saying no isn't spanking. Not even close.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 1:58 pm
So then you could say an eye for an eye... A smack is a smack is a smack. A smack is a hit. A smack is violent.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:11 pm
I do say an eye for an eye. And isn't that in the bible? But no a smack isn't a smack and wherever else you were going with your statement. But like I said, impasse. And opinions are like **** everyone's got one, no matter how relevant or irrelevant.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:25 pm
What about a belt?
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