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Archive through December 20, 2004

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: 2005 Mar. ~ 2005 May: Who do YOU tip? How much, and why?: Archive through December 20, 2004 users admin

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Bob2112
Member

06-12-2002

Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It doesn't sound like your friend was tricky. It sounds like she was rude and pushy. It is not her place to track down and humiliate customers because she is not happy with the tip. I would have called her on it and talked to the people that hired her.

From reading all the posts here, there seem to be some truths that have existed for a long time.

- Many customers do not tip at the level expected by the servers.
- Many servers take jobs that have the potential to earn them little or no money on some days and even lose them money in the worst case scenarios.
- There does not seem to be a shortage of people willing to work these jobs, even if they only last a few months.

Until a tip is mandatory, I think it is wrong to place any blame on the customers. They did not create the system. Taxing employees on potential income is stupid. Servers having to guarantee tips to others workers, even though they are not guaranteed a tip is also stupid. These systems are set up by government and the employers and agreed to by the employees when they take the job.

Until there is a shortage of people willing to work under these conditions, it is unlikely much will change.

With regards to a Christmas party. Many companies present the party to the employees as their bonus for the year, in lieu of cash bonuses from previous years. The companies pay for everything and the employees are there to visit with each other and have a good time. A tip should be negotiated into the up front price/contract, like it is with large groups at a restaurant and that money should make it down to the servers as guaranteed money. If you are expecting to make most of your money from the individual tips, then you already know you will likely be disappointed.

I'm all over the place and starting to repeat myself, so I'll end with this.

If workers keep supporting a system that continues to underpay them, then that system will never change. Getting mad at the customers does not seem to be working either.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 4:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Oh Bob2112, you're post is totally welcome and your thoughts have a lot of validity.

I agree that my friend was completely out of line, but we still envy people when they do things we would never do. If a person ever did something like that to ME, I would call them on it too, and also let their manager know.

As for Xmas parties, sure a lot of things are included in the bill. However, if your boss holds an Xmas dinner at a restaurant, but it is cash bar and you must buy your own drinks, who should be tipping for those drinks?

We had this one party on Sunday, whose bosses had negotiated a buffet, and one bottle of red and one bottle of white per table. Any cocktails, non-alc bevvies, or more wine was the employees' responsibility. Well, people go through the free wine like it's water, and then got MAD at us when they found out further drinks were extra. Why is it the server's fault that your boss didn't want to pay for more alcohol?

We had people yelling at US for the stupidest of things. It was a buffet, and we wouldn't start letting people get food until the boss said everyone had arrived. Well, the table of losers who showed up an hour EARLY for the party, and had then been waiting for 2.5 hours to eat was mad at us. During the buffet for 105 ppl, OBVIOUSLY the pans of food would be empty and need to be replenished. When things got low, we'd go back and tell the kitchen what needed replenishing. Well, despite telling everyone that the chef was preparing fresh pans of food to replace the empty ones, and that it would take two minutes (as we actually CARE about food presentation), people would still complain that there was no food. The same people too!! It's not like the line moved, considering they were waiting for food.

We had them go up table by table. Well, the first table, had finished their food yet the last tables were still in line getting their first helpings. Despite SEEING that other people hadn't even gotten food yet, the people at the first table are like "Where's dessert!?" Ummm hellloooo? You see your colleagues over there at the buffet? They haven't eaten their DINNER yet. It's gonna be a while for dessert.

God. This has turned into a vent. Christmas parties bring out the worst in me. Not EVERYTHING is paid for by the company, and therefore not EVERYTHING is tipped for by the company. If you decide to use the coatcheck, tip the girl, or stick your coat on the back of the chair and let me walk all over it.

Bob, there are SOME places that have unionized their restaurants, but it is almost impossible to do. I'd say maybe 2% of restaurants are unionized, and change in the industry is not likely. I think all we ask is that customers just try to *understand* why tips ARE so important to us.

Max
Member

08-12-2000

Friday, December 10, 2004 - 1:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks for the responses to my rant. Here's a bit of clarification to answer some of the questions that came up. :-)

I work for a company that puts together the casino parties. Everyone who works for them is considered a contractor. We get paid a flat fee for each party - $35 for 2-1/2 to 4 hours of work on weekend evenings, an additional $15 if it goes over 4 hours. Weekday parties pay $10 less for 2-1/2 hours with an additional $10 if it's over 2-1/2 hours and $15 additional if it's over 4 hours). Most parties are 2-1/2 hours or less. The company provides all the tables and chips; we provide our own cards and shoe and must purchase our own vest and dress in black slacks and white tuxedo shirts (also our own purchase). Because we are contractors, everything we purchase for use in the job is tax-deductible, as is mileage to and from jobs.

On each table, there's a placard that lists the chip values and, in very small print, at the bottom states, "Tips are neither solicited nor expected, but are always appreciated." Our goal really is to get people to have fun. If you are caught soliciting for tips, you face immediate dismissal.

Unlike in real casinos, we cannot play for cash, only chips. By law, no money can EVER be on the table, not even a penny. If a guest wants to tip, the cash must pass from his/her hand to the dealer's hand. Oregon's laws are very strict on this and since they just decided to supplement their income by adding slot machines to the state lottery system, they are watching companies like ours pretty closely.

So, unlike a real casino where you might get a blackjack and slide some of your winnings over to the dealer as a tip, if someone wants to tip, they have to dig into their purse/wallet and get money to hand directly to the dealer. That makes it more awkward and thus people don't think about it as much.

I truly don't expect people to tip. The situation I vented about was unique in that the client screwed up, knew it, and still didn't even offer us so much as a take-out box with a piece of dessert cake in it (the caterer had boxed all the leftover desserts --and there were a lot -- and stacked them on a table and the organizer of the party gathered them up and took them with her). It is possible that she'll add a tip to the bill when she pays it, in which case the company will pass it along to the three of us who worked that night. It could happen. :-)

Anyway, I don't expect folks to tip and I'm not in this for the big bucks (there aren't any to be found, really). I really enjoy playing blackjack and dealing it is even more fun. I tend to have "the party table" because I like to get people riled up and having fun even if they're losing. I've kept the same players at my table all night long even though I'm basically cleaning them out. Even at a charity function (where they have to purchase scrip because that's how the charity makes money), I've kept a full table all night long with the gals selling more scrip standing by to keep the players solvent. I'm proud that folks enjoy being at my table; it makes my day. :-)

I spend most of my time doing transcription at home, making hand-knitted items to sell, and selling novelties at car shows. Dealing cards is just another fun thing in my repertoire and sometimes it's the best part of my day after trying to decipher what a bunch of doctors are saying at a medical conference or what a 911 caller is trying to report to the police.

Anyway, thanks for the words of support. And here's a big high five to all the service workers of the world -- what would we do without you?!!! :-) The thing is, when service workers do their jobs really well, customers enjoy themselves immensely and can easily forget or just plain not understand how much work is involved to provide that seamless, quality service.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Check this quiz out:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Common/Flash/tip_quiz.asp?special=holiday&GT1=5854

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I got a total score of 19. Which is "just right" even though I got a few individual "loosen ups" and one "scrooge."

Kaili
Member

08-31-2000

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I ended up with a 20 for a score..."Just right"

"You've shown that you know when and how much to tip- guided by the spirit of generosity as well as common sense. That's no mean trick, because this is confusing business. Tipping is customary in America, and you've got a handle on a valuable lesson: The better you take care of the people who care for you, the better off everybody will be"

Kaili
Member

08-31-2000

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I got three "Loosen Up"s, one "Scrooge", and one "Moneybags". Like I know how expensive Le Cirque is! I just figured I'd rather give a gift certificate for dinner than a handful of cash.

Lancecrossfire
Moderator

07-13-2000

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I got a score of 23--"just right. I got 7 just rights and 1 loosen up. I didn't give the paperboy enough of a tip.

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have a question:

How do I tip our garden service when I never see them? They come when I'm out and we rent the house so they are paid by the landlord and I have no real contact with them.

Should I, and how, practically, do I tip them? Leave an envelope in the garden?

Thanks for any advice!

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Kitt, ideally your landlord should tip them; they are performing a service for him or her, not for you.

Conejo
Member

08-23-2002

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Kitt, my lawn service always leaves a work order hanging on my door listing what services they performed on that visit. Does your garden service do the same? If so, you could probably just leave them an envelope on the door.

If you are happy with their services I suppose it would be a good idea to tip them. As to how much, maybe an amount equal to one visit?

Landi
Member

07-29-2002

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
i thought the same thing kitt! and we have a multi family locked mailbox for 12 houses (kind of like an apartment mailbox, but on the curb.) i'm not tipping the postman. i don't even know him/her! and the garbage men use automated trucks, so they don't even pick up the trash cans themselves anymore. and besides there are three trucks! one for the recycling, one for the yard waste, and one for the trash. my newspaper carrier is an adult in a car. they just throw the paper from the car. it's not even on the porch. now my cleaning lady will get the equivalent of one service (she comes every other week). i tipped the hairdresser the amount of one haircut. i think i'm done!

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 1:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
No, they don't leave anything on the door, they're really pretty invisible to me except that all the leaves on the ground disappear every other Tuesday! I like Tishala's comment that the landlord should tip them, that works for me!! I scored an overall "loosen up" on that quiz, with quite a few "Scrooge!"s, so I thought I should ask what you all thought! Thanks for the help.

Grannyg
Member

05-28-2002

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 5:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I scored 24 and I didn't tip the paper boy enough. I got 1 moneybags and 1 loosen up and the rest were just right. I liked the part about the better you take care of the people that take care of you, the better off everyone will be. I truly believe in taking care of those who take care of me!! Works everytime!

Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 5:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree Landi,we have those multiple boxes too. And,I bet I get at least one neighbors' mail at least once a week. Sometimes I think a drunken monkey could do a better job than my mail delivery.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I got the exact same thing as you Granny. I got a loosen up for the paperboy, but my logic is I don't want to receive an ENVELOPE from someone, because I think it is like ASKING for a tip. I play devil's advocate though, because there is a line for a tip on the visa slip when you eat out, so who am I to judge an envelope from the paper boy? But somehow, it just seems to me like a more blatant request for a tip.

Konamouse
Member

07-16-2001

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 8:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Lance, you and I scored the exact same.

I have to admit that my score is a result of the education in this thread (since I don't have a paperboy or a doorman, nor a regular hairdresser). In fact, the only service person I deal with that was on the quiz is the postman - and like those of you above, I almost never see mine (multihouse box on the street).

Now, a question. I am a regular customer at a Starbucks inside a grocery store. These folks take really good care of me. Most know my drink on sight (when I walk up to the counter they are making it before I even pay for it). What should I do? I was thinking of cards with $20 inside for each of my regular servers (there are 5 of them I see in the mornings).

'squeek'

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 1:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Maybe get a bunch of movie passes, or something that each of the 5 staff members could benefit from, not just the lucky one who sees you the day you bring the money in....

I think it is funny that we know our baristas more than our mailperson. I'm right there with you Kona!!

Shadoe
Member

11-04-2004

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
There is a Second Cup that I pass by my apartment, going to and from work, where one fellow there knows exactly what I drink. Unfortunately, I have no idea what he makes for me; it's something special every time. Now, he has spoiled me to the point that I cannot drink any normal drink from any other person working there, and I can't even tell them what Andrew mixes up for me. Andrew will certainly get a special Xmas gift from me. Movie passes would be a good idea for him, or a gift certificate from Future Shop.

Konamouse
Member

07-16-2001

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks for the idea about the movie passes.
I also have some gift certificates from the Massage School down the street (they are a $32 value that I got for $15 since I bought them in bulk a while ago). Maybe I'll give those out.
You guys are so awesome for your ideas. I feel a lot better doing that then the money.

'squeek'

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I got 23 also but got one scrooge (for not tipping someone whose service I don't like) and the rest just right or moneybags.. but of course often none of the choices was what I would do.

I actually tipped the newspaper deliverer $15 and the main carrier $20. Neither of those were actual choices. I got it right that you don't tip teachers, got the day care and doorman right but none of those are applicable in my life anyway. I also don't have a gardener individually.

My hairdresser is going to get an extra $25 plus some of Pcakes hand/body lotion..

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Just read landi's post.. I only tip the one primary mail carrier because she's just a lovely person, always cheerful, kind.. and I tend to get more than average mail order stuff that she ends up delivering. So my dilemma has always been to make sure it is her day before I leave anything out. Yesterday I saw her next door and raced to get a twenty and stuffed it into an envelope and raced out to track her down (she's speedy ) and apologized for it not being a more festive envelope or card.. she said this was "personal delivery".. I just told her I really appreciate her.. Another neighbor says she always gets the same carrier coupons for.. I'm forgetting which fast food place or it may be starbucks.. whatever it is where my neighbor KNOWS they carriers gather for lunch.. (and lucky me, this place has been here since the mid sixties so we each get our mail right by our door (in fact if I re installed a through the door slot, it would be right inside)..

The paper guy leaves a card with an envelope and his address.. and I finally did decide to send some money this year.. after all I get it delivered RIGHT by my door.

We have dumpsters and they come in trucks and never thought of tipping the trash guys, but I don't overly burden them in any way, either.

Oh yeah and Peggy (hairdresser) is getting a replacement devil duck.. someone seems to have kidnapped hers so this time she is taking it home..

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 7:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I got 22. I apparently cheat my paper delivery person (however, I've had 6 different people delivering the paper this year and why the heck should I give him/her money if he/she can't deliver the danged thing before I leave for work?).

Funny... I've never tipped my postal carrier. Ever. He's a right friendly guy (albeit late, always). But I've never tipped him. I tip my housekeeper, definitely. I don't tip my hair stylist (she's a friend).

I'm, as usual, all over the map! :-)

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 12:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
ITA Costa.. the only reason I tipped the paper person is I think they have missed me maybe one day this year (embarrassingly it was right when I was considering the tip) and it is always there VERY early and right on the doormat.

My hairdresser is a friend too.. I've been going to her (wherever she goes to work, I go as well) and I always tip her but more at Christmas and I like to get her something personal. But it is more just because of her, not her role in my life, I think.

And I've never tipped a postal carrier until this one, the last few years, and I guess it is because I've actually gotten to know her and then also because of all the books and other items she's had to deliver.

What I think I'm saying is that I happen to be tipping certain individuals but might not tip someone else in the same position.

No housekeeper here.

Rslover
Member

11-19-2002

Monday, December 20, 2004 - 5:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Emily Post Institute Etiquette—Tips on Holiday Tipping - Updated for 2004

The holiday season is the perfect time to say “thank you” to those who have provided service to you throughout the year—to let them know you’re pleased with what they do for you. Don’t forget that one of the best ways to express your appreciation is a hand-written note, which should accompany any holiday tip.

Whether and how much to tip varies widely, depending on:

the quality and frequency of the service
your relationship with the service provider
where you live (amounts are usually higher in large cities)
the frequency of the service or how long you have worked together
your budget
regional customs
the type of establishment: deluxe vs. moderate
If you’ve regularly tipped at the time of service, you may forgo a holiday tip or cut back on the amount. Try to include your child in deciding on any gifts for teachers, day care providers, nannies, and babysitters.

Every situation is different, so let common sense, specific circumstances, and holiday spirit be your guides. The tip amounts in this chart are merely guidelines. What to give is an individual decision.

Au pair A gift from your family (or one-week’s pay), plus a small gift from your child
Babysitter, regular One evening’s pay, plus a small gift from your child
Barber Cost of one haircut, plus possibly a small gift
Beauty salon staff $10 to $60 each, giving most to those who give most to you, plus possibly a small gift
Child’s teacher Gift, not cash; check school’s policy. Possibilities: gift certificate for coffee shop or book store, classroom supplies, book, picture frame, fruit basket or gourmet food item, or joint gift with other parents and their children

Day care providers $25 to $70 each, plus a small gift from your child. If only one or two providers, consider higher range amount.
Dog walker One week’s pay
Fitness trainer, personal Cost of one session
Garage attendants $10 to $30 each, to be distributed by manager
Housekeeper/leaner One day’s pay
Letter carriers U.S. government regulations permit carriers to accept gifts worth up to $20 each
Massage therapist One session’s fee
Nanny One week’s to one month’s salary based on tenure and customs in your area, plus a small gift from your child
Newspaper deliverer $10 to $30
Nurse, private Gift, not cash
Nursing home employees Gift, not cash
Pool cleaner Cost of one cleaning
Package deliverer Small gift if you receive deliveries regularly; most delivery companies prohibit cash gifts
Residential building personnel:
Superintendent $20 to $80
Doorman $10 to $80
Elevator operator $15 to $40
Handyman $15 to $40
Trash/recycling collectors $10 to $20 each, for private service
Yard and garden worker $20 to $50


Bah, humbug! You're broke before you even start with the friends and family!
Ho Ho Ho


http://www.emilypost.com/etiquette/holiday/holiday_tipping.htm