Author |
Message |
Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:28 pm
I use it to hold up my pants.
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Nickovtyme
Member
07-29-2004
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:30 pm
Well that went better than I thought it might. It's ok by me, everybody has there own thoughts and opinions and now that I re-read my posts I failed to mention originally that it was the very last resort. I didn't mean to make it sound like she was getting spanked everyday because that was not the case; It was after nearly a year of trying everything we could, and starting to hear whispers of being taken to court, by the bitten child's parents, (because it seemed to be the same children and some of the bites were bad) if we could not get our child under control. And say what you want about spanking but in the span of a couple weeks it was done and we haven't had a problem since. You might think I'm a monster now, but Tara doesn't, Zoe doesn't, my wife doesn't and that's all I'm worried about. I'm not gonna say much more on this matter. I probably said too much by some reactions...actually, I should have come here and cried for help while it was all going on.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:31 pm
Happymom, your question is what made me decide not to spank. Just didn't make sense to me. I was spanked and I "turned out okay", but I don't think it's the best way. It caused me to behave well out of fear of being hit, not out of respect or empathy or pride in being good.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:31 pm
Spare the rod is an often misunderstood Biblical verse. Shepherds never hit their sheep with the rods, they used the rods to guide the sheep, directing them to go one way or another. The rods were only used to beat away predators. The rest of that verse says: he who loves his son disciplines him promptly. No one is advocating for undisciplined children here. Not a single soul. We're talking about the method of discipline. The meaning of discipline is to teach. "Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me." I hardly think that means we are comforted by being hit with a rod. Mocha, I agree that one of the difficulties is that spanking, hitting, smacking all mean very different things to people. Another difficulty is that you have to see parenting in the entire context of parenting. The "how" of physical discipline is very important in this issue, not just the "should you". The overall quality of parenting makes a great deal of difference in outcomes. People who simply swat, spank or hit without thinking about what's going on have worse outcomes; then those who do the same but have thought through what their kids are thinking and feeling; and who have good relationships with their children. So, I'm just saying that this issue, looked at deeply, can be very complicated. The bottom line for me is that I don't think it's necessary and have always been able to find other ways to teach children. Hitting always inflicts some emotional damage and fear of parent that must be undone, whether one sees or admits that or not. Since I think our world is violent enough, I prefer those other methods. I really would like to see a kindler, gentler world. Your mileage may vary. 
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:33 pm
I dont make light of using a belt on a child. That is my point, I am surprised that more people havent come out and condemned the use of a belt on a child. I mean if we are really trying to offer someone advice, isnt there a responsibility to say one particular thing is just wrong even if you hurt that persons feelings? I dont agree with spanking but I dont in anyway put it in the same league as using a belt on a child. I dont believe spare the rod spoil the child just as I dont necessarily believe that every child who got a slap is going to be scarred for life by it. I do however feel a strong responsibility to respond to someone who says they use a belt. I may be too blunt and maybe people think I should have said nothing but we are talking about a child here and someone has to say, please dont do that to your child.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:33 pm
yes, an eye for an eye is in the Bible too, however, if you are Christian, Jesus pretty much overturned that as extreme and uncalled for. You have heard it said "an eye for eye" BUT I SAY TO YOU.... 
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:35 pm
Oh lawd now you're an expert on bible verses?
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:37 pm
quote:Another difficulty is that you have to see parenting in the entire context of parenting.
Uh no I don't. And yes Maris I've used a belt, plenty of time and will continue to do so. And I don't really care if you agree with that or not. And on that note I'm going to leave this area to the holier than thou seeming thinking that goes on here. Do whatever you think is right with your kids and I'll do the same with mine.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:39 pm
I am absolutely dumbfounded by this. I don't know what to say.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:45 pm
Maris, I got the feeling that Nick used it for that one behavior and is now done with it. Perhaps I am wrong about that interpretation. I agree, using a belt is over the top, and in many counties, will get you reported to CPS. Mocha, no need to take it personally. If you can quote the Bible as your source, surely I am permitted to offer more accurate views of those verses? I'm sure folks will do what they think is right. The dialog may change some people's minds, and may not change others. But everyone has a right to their opinion. Getting angry because others disagree isn't very helpful, IMO.
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Nickovtyme
Member
07-29-2004
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:46 pm
My feelings aren't hurt. And as Karuuna said, it was for this particular behavior and now that we are past it...we are past the belt. A couple of swats with a belt does not constitute abuse, especially when the firm talking about how bad biting is, affirmed with the swats. I remember getting spanked with a belt or whatever my mother could reach, when I was child. You can tell me it's wrong...that's up for debate but I'm not going to feel as though I did something wrong, because some people don't like it.
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Dfennessey
Member
07-25-2004
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:49 pm
Well I believe that there is a difference between spanking a child and beating a child. I see nothing wrong with spank a child or even using the belt within reason and if the child really deserves it
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 2:54 pm
Like someone said, it's a very sensitive topic. Nickovtyme, I think you handled the situation just fine. If you were abusive, you wouldn't have come here to talk about it in the first place.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 3:05 pm
So, why is it so sensitive? Seems to me we can talk easily here about so many other parenting issues, without offense. But raise this subject and it invariably becomes hot for some people. I personally don't get too excited about it. I used to; but as I said before, parenting is complex, and to reduce the quality of a parenting relationship to one aspect doesn't do anyone any good. Those who oppose spanking seem to get upset because they feel it is violent and wrong. But as others have said, there is a huge range from a simple swat to a hairbrush or belt; and from an occasional instance to weekly or even daily spankings. I think it's best to try and see things in context (even though I see that Mocha doesn't agree! ) What about those who do spank? Why does opposing views about this make you so angry or upset? And for the record, Mocha, you and I may disagree about this issue, but what I know from meeting you is that you are not only a tough and strong-minded woman (which I greatly admire), but also a loving, devoted mom and intensely loyal, all of which I also admire. So, I am distressed that you are apparently upset with me, and hope that you know I was not offering criticism of you, but only my opinions on this issue.
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Babyruth
Member
07-19-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 3:07 pm
A spanking is one thing, but I cannot fathom the use of a belt or other object to hit a child, ESPECIALLY a preschooler! There are so many kind, non-violent ways to achieve your goals. I'm sorry you couldn't find a professional to help you find one that worked.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 3:12 pm
My last comment is to urge any parent who is using an object such as a belt on their child to please discuss it with your child's pediatrician. I really believe in my soul that it is a wrong thing to do.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 3:57 pm
I think it's a sensitive subject because people are either for it or against it. After reading all the posts, one can see for themselves how it is a sensitive subject.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 3:59 pm
I have often wondered why spankers become so defensive and almost hostile when defending and/or explaining their choice of discipline. If they truly feel good about it, why not calmly explain their choice? Which, while I totally disagree with, Nick did. Maris, I agree with you.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:05 pm
I don't agree with using a belt, or anything else for that matter. I was spanked with a belt, a wooden spoon, a coat hanger and a hairbrush. I would never use that kind of discipline with my child. If you feel the need to use a force more than your hand, that I think constitutes child abuse. Sorry, JMO. DD gets spankings. But, it has been a while since I have. I just now ask her to stop and if she doesn't I ask if she'd like a spanking. She stops. And I have never hit her with anything but my hand, and just enough to sting a bit. It has never left a mark, or bruise. Whether you are disciplining with a time out or a spanking or a loss of privelages, your child is going to fear that action. That is what will stop them from doing it next time. Hello? I am shocked that a belt was used on a preschooler too, but as I posted before, it's not my child, not my business. Children that are abused are more likely to abuse. Children that were spanked and disciplined in a "healthy" way are not more likely to be "violent" members of society. That is that everloving difference between the two. I was spanked by my mother and grandmother, and I was never afraid of them I was afraid of the spanking. Although, I was really hurt emotionally when my mom used something to spank me with other than her hand.
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Ddr
Member
08-19-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:11 pm
Grace, have things gotten better with Jai? Sorry I can't offer any advice, my child didn't bite nor hit me when he was that age.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:12 pm
I agree Texannie, no reason to get upset that others don't agree with you, but I think the non-spankers are equally defensive when explaining their choice.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:16 pm
I think it's important to remember that children are different too. For one, a single spanking may humiliate them for a long long time. For another, more resilient child, it may not effect them so deeply. It's very hard to generalize to all children. Escapee, I think the fear of being spanked and the fear of being in time out are very different things. One is unpleasant for sure, and they may not like it. But the reason that I think physical discipline is more fear-invoking is that it involves physical pain and injury. And the child gets very early that someone that can cause them so much physical pain can do a lot worse damage. While not being able to put it in these words, it can cause them anxiety about their personal safety. To me, those are very different fears; and I think children instinctively understand the difference. That's my experience.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:26 pm
It's like the difference of gettting a traffic ticket and being arrested. How many citations will you ignore before you get arrested?
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:29 pm
Escapee, I don't think so. The Police man isn't 150 pounds bigger than you, and is certainly not hitting you. Being arrested is more like time out. Seems to me it's more like the difference between succumbing to arrest peacefully and resisting arrest. Resisting arrest is scary stuff.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 4:33 pm
I think pro-spankers tend to be a bit defensive because the non-spankers can sometimes sound a bit judgemental and accusatory in tone...even if that's not what they mean....
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