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Recipes for People with Gout and Diab...

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: 2005 Mar. ~ 2005 May: Cooking Corner (ARCHIVES): Recipes for People with Gout and Diabetes users admin

Author Message
Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 12:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Help! I need some recipes/eating suggestions for my 78-year-old mom, who has CHF, Type II Diabetes but has also recently been diagnosed with gout--and given a med to deal with it by her PCP--simply upon description of her problem. (I am thinking she needs to see a rheumatologist for a better diagnosis/diet. But in the meantime, how do I feed her without forcing her to become a vegetarian?)

With diabetes, we know to stay away from a diet rich in carbs and sugars, but it appears to me that the gout diet pushes carbs and sugars! I am so confused how to help her. She has been on the zone diet and lost about 30 pounds and looks pretty good! But now, the gout is making dietary choices very difficult.

I have printed out a bunch of info on gout from the net, so I see what is generally considered a problem. But in making up a grocery list for her, I am feeling really at a loss. Used to the high protein, low carb approach, which doesn't jive for sufferers of gout.

Here's what I gleaned so far, as far as good and bad foods are concerned:

Bad Foods--Avoid Altogether
• Liver
• Heart
• Brains
• Sweetbreads
• Game Meats
• Turkey
• Venison
• Goose
• Partridge
• Anchovies
• Sardines
• Mackerel
• Herring
• Scallops
• Mussels
• Bacon
• Gravy
• Yeast
• Mincemeat
• Cod
• Trout
• Haddock
• Veal
• Alcohol, esp. Beer


Foods to be eaten occasionally, or in moderation only
• Oatmeal (2/3 c daily allowed)
• Wheat Bran, Wheat Germ
• Asparagus (1/2 c daily)
• Cauliflower
• Spinach
• Mushrooms
• Green peas
• Beef, pork, chicken, duck (limit to 2-3 oz daily)
• Fish, shellfish (ditto, including Crab, Shrimp, Oysters and Lobster)
• Dried peas/beans/lentils (1 c daily)
• Kidney Beans, lima beans
• Meat soups and broths

Good Foods--eat as desired
• Breads, cereals
• Noodles
• Rice
• Cornbread
• Juices
• Eggs
• Nuts
• Peanut Butter
• Milk and Milk Products
• Fats and Oils (in moderation)
• Vegetable soups made with vegetable stocks
• Tomatoes and Green Vegetables (including lettuce but excluding those already noted)
• Sugar syrup, sweets, Jello
• Soft drinks, tea, coffee
• Chocolate, custard, pudding
• White Sauce
• Condiments, salt, herbs, olives, pickles, relishes, vinegar, popcorn

Thanks ahead for any suggestions you can offer!

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 1:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I would do something like Sugar Busters or South Beach diet.
Have the bread and noodles, but make them whole wheat.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 1:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks, Texannie.

Whole wheat is a no-no with gout. White is a no-no with diabetes. See the dilemma? I went online and found under 'Gout Recipes' a couple I can begin with. I know Sugar Busters by heart--low in carbs (good for diabetes; bad for gout). I think South Beach would be protein rich--bad for gout.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 3:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
oops, didn't see whole wheat on your list.
South Beach is the same as Sugar Busters but with different phases.
My dad had gout and never restricted his diet! LOL

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 3:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
found this.....looks like it would be compatible with both diabetes and gout (and alot like South Beach and Sugar Busters)

http://arthritis.about.com/od/gout/a/foodstoeat.htm

The American Medical Association recommends the following dietary guidelines for people with gout, advising them to eat a diet:


high in complex carbohydrates (fiber-rich whole grains, fruits, and vegetables)

low in protein (15% of calories and sources should be soy, lean meats, or poultry)

no more than 30% of calories in fat (with only 10% animal fats)
Recommended Foods To Eat

Fresh cherries, strawberries, blueberries, and other red-blue berries
Bananas
Celery
Tomatoes
Vegetables including kale, cabbage, parsley, green-leafy vegetables
Foods high in bromelain (pineapple)
Foods high in vitamin C (red cabbage, red bell peppers, tangerines, mandarins, oranges, potatoes)
Drink fruit juices and purified water (8 glasses of water per day)
Low-fat dairy products
Complex carbohydrates (breads, cereals, pasta, rice, as well as aforementioned vegetables and fruits)
Chocolate, cocoa
Coffee, tea
Carbonated beverages
Essential fatty acids (tuna and salmon, flaxseed, nuts, seeds)
Tofu, although a legume and made from soybeans, may be a better choice than meat


Foods considered moderately high in purines but which may not raise the risk of gout include: asparagus, cauliflower, mushrooms, peas, spinach, whole grain breads and cereals, chicken, duck, ham, turkey, kidney and lima beans. It is important to remember that purines are found in all protein foods. All sources of purines should not be eliminated.


also my dad found drinking 2 oz per day of pure Aloe Vera juice really helped too.




Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 3:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
You know, I have had bouts with gout as a result of my medicines I take for CHF. The diuretics can cause the crystallization of whatever it is that causes gout, which leads to inflammation in the joints, etc. She should really talk to her CHF specialist about this--and if she doesn't have a CHF specialist, she should get one right away--and see what he can recommend to her vis-à-vis medications and diet.

For example, I no longer have to take lasix because I am careful about sodium intake. Part of that has to do with the other meds I take and the ability of my heart to recover function (I didn't develop CHF as a result of a heart attack, for example, and I take the Beta blocker Coreg, which has been shown to help "reverse remodel" the heart and improve ejection fraction). Not taking lasix, or taking it at the most minimal levels, can really be good if the gout is, indeed, a result of medication and not an organic rheumatoid arthritis problem. Her CHF doc might be able to give other advice about this, too. Mine told me to avoid strawberries (!) and organ meat, but that was about all and I don't eat organ meat anyhow, except for the occasional pate. CHFers know to avoid alcohol, even though this one doesn't listen, and to focus on fresh, naturally low-sodium ingredients.

The other problem is drugs one can take for the gout when one has CHF. People with CHF generally cannot take NSAIDS (Celebrex, Vioxx, and even Aleve) because they create fluid retention problems. We have to take a terrible medicine called colcachine (sp?) that has yucky side effects like diarrhea instead. I decided at some point to take 2 aleve almost every day and throw caution to the wind. I haven't had a gout episode since I started this. It is a tradeoff I am willing to take: the possible problems from CHF (but I am totally asymptomatic, so it's easy for me to say) vs. the pain from gout.

The final thing to contend with is that every gout episode has a recovery time. I had residual weakness in my joints--almost always my ankle--for several weeks after the gout episode and it made it hard for me to do the things I think are important, like walking in heels and going on the elliptical trainer, to say nothing of how it shot my cardio to hell. And CHFers really NEED cardiovascular activity.

I'm sorry I haven't answered your question about recipes, HP. But it's because I think the other info I gave *might* be more important to the situation. As always, I could be 100% wrong.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 4:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Wow, thanks so much both of you. Tish, I am printing this out for my mom now. I can't thank you enough! Yes, she has a heart specialist, but the gout just came on in the last 2 weeks, so I doubt she's shared. Great information here, both of you! Thanks for responding so quickly, too!

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 5:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
HP, if her gout is a result of her CHF meds, she may have several recurrences even after she alters her medicine treatment. I kept having them for about 6 months, I think, because the diuretics really build up crap in your joints. Please tell her to look at the website CHF Patients and to do a search about gout on there. It's a very common side effect of CHF meds. I forgot to mention that there is a very good drug, Allopurinol, that can help keep gout at bay once she is free of episodes for a month or so. I'm sure her doctor will tell her about this...my CHF specialist gave it to me!

And wish her the best for me! I KNOW all too well how painful gout is! It feels like you have broken bones and almost nothing can relieve the pain.

ETA: I just noticed that Annie mentioned Aloe Vera juice. I've also heard about cherry juice being good. I think it's an old wive's tale, but sometimes they work! One thing she cannot do because of her CHF is to flush her system with fluids, as they typically suggest for gout sufferers; if she has fluid retention problems at all, it is best to keep fluid intake as minimal as possible.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 11:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hey, Tish. First chance I've had to get back in here. I found a meatless, low-fat lasagna recipe online and made it for her tonight. I ate it, too (though Ed wouldn't touch it--what, no meat?!) amd it was delicious and satisfying. So score one on that.

Six months! Gad!

My mom was give that drug Allpurinol already and is taking 2 a day. And that's what she popped when she had her 3 am incident with pain a couple nights ago. The pain vanished almost instantly! But she is still having generalized 'hanging on' pain which she can distinguish from her diabetic neuropathy, she says.

She is also afraid to take an Allopurinal tablet as needed, which I thought made sense. I told her to call her doc today and check, but her doc's office was closed for the day when we called. Do you have any experience in taking it as prescribed and also 'as needed'? Also, could you explain what you meant by saying 'it can keep gout at bay once she is free of episodes for a month or so'? To me, that could mean she shouldn't take it til she is free of them for a month (but that doesn't make sense), or that the drug will eventually slow the episodes and keep them from returning for the most part. Is the second explanation what you meant?

I had read that cherries are excellent for this, too! In fact, one site seemed to say eating a 1/2 a pound a day was on track! I looked for cherry juice when the produce guy confirmed it was too early for cherries--but everything had sugar in it. And she can't/won't touch sugar because of her diabetes.

She does take a dieuretic for her heart, and we saw that that was probably a co-conspirator (along with baby aspirin, I read) in this problem. That's why I told her she needed to get a confirmed diagnosis, because I see that there are different types of gout. (Hers is probably a combination type, and we're sure she has it, but I would think the exact diagnosis would help the doc determine what, if anything, to do about the meds contributing to the problem.)

And I took special notice of that Aloe Vera juice, too. Never heard of it, not sure where to find it. Annie? But I will look for it.

I saved that CHF Patients website to her Favorites so she can find it and read it whenever the mood hits. I just checked it out and it is wonderful. I also copied all the gout information to a document that I copied to her desktop to read thru tomorrow. Terrific recommendation!

I also found this website called "Ihategout.com" which I am going to check out and see if it is merely a site to sell this guy's gout cookbooks or is actually a good site for gout sufferers to talk to one another. That's where I got the lasagna recipe.

Thanks so much again, Tish. Huge help!

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Friday, April 29, 2005 - 11:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
HP, my CHF doc told me I had to be symptom free for at least 2 weeks, and preferably a month, before I took Allopurinol because otherwise it could have a rebound effect and an intensified gout episode. I frankly have not had much luck with the drug, though, for whatever reason. I've actually given up on it because, by happenstance or not, it seemed like every time I took it I had a flare up. But it works for most people in preventing (or at least holding off) gout episodes. I am just an unfortunate case. [FWIW, my Allopurinol prescription is a 300 mg tablet and the directions say to take 1/2 per day! I'm not sure how much your mother is taking--maybe my dosage is off!]

The pain she is having is probably just the residual weakness from gout I talked about earlier. It will go away in a couple weeks. She should try to do as much weight-bearing exercise as possible to help her regain function and strengthen in the joint. Usually walking is fine.

Again, sorry to take this thread so far away from recipes.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 12:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hey, don't be sorry. This is exactly what she and I need! And I almost started a thread for gout in a different area. But I knew I had to go grocery shopping and was flipping out because we are so doggone meat-dependent in our typical recipes.

Yikes on what you really meant about the Allopurinol! I thought sure that must NOT be what you meant. Could be what is going on with her, then. I just checked and I see her doc has her on 100 mg tablets.

Btw, one of the pages on the CHF Patients site referred to a 2002 study recommending 300 mg per day for CHF patients with gout. In two other articles on the same site, I read that the drug (when 300 mg per day were taken) helps CHFers' arteries to relax (improves vessel dilation, reduces stress caused by free radicals, lowers uric acid by 60% and helps the heart pump by blocking an enzyme called XO--which creates free radicals )! So it truly sounds like a wonder drug to me.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 5:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Herc, you can get the aloe vera juice at most health food stores or grocery stores like Whole Foods and Trader Joes.
Have you heard of Cymbalta? It was recently approved for diabetic neuropathy. My fil is a very brittle diabetic and has been in a wheel chair for the neuropathy for several years now.
http://www.cymbalta.com/index.jsp

Also look into Knudsen's juices. They are the pure juice no sugar added. You can get them at the grocery store (sometimes they are in the health section, sometimes in the regular section.) I drink their pure cranberry juice diluted with water every day. I am pretty sure they have cherry.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 8:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks, Texannie! I know there is a Trader Joe's near my mom. Her Acme is pretty bad and doesn't have a lot of things I have in CT. I will look around here for Knudsen's juices (or see if her Acme will order it).

Thanks for the info on cymbalta. I haven't heard of it, but maybe my mom has. Anyway, I am printing this out and the page from the site you listed for her. Poor thing; I am bombarding her! Hope she carries thru with all this!

Thank you again, Texannie. Wonderful help!

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 10:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Anytime!