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Midlifer
Member
04-16-2003
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 10:34 am
Yes, Tex, she did. The picture above shows her departure after she fell off the uneven bars and received a miserable score. Paul...give back the gold??????? Give me a BREAK! Just award a double gold, like they did with the skaters. I have no problem with that, even if the judges were to blame. Sheesh.....I hate it when politics gets into the Olympics!!!!!!!
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 10:48 am
I've been OLYMNOTIZED! it's never gonna end....
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 10:50 am
Oh, I was thinking it was from the all around, thanks for clearing that up.
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 4:24 pm
I'd read all the news stories of all Khorkina's hissy fits over on the gymnastics board. That is why I'm glad she didn't win her final event. But I also saw all the snarky posts over there where people were just all out gleeful that she bombed so badly. You know, I may have even felt a little of that myself if I had watched it live (I'm sure Karma would have come to mind). But after seeing how ugly those gleeful posts were getting, I decided I should try to have a little bit of sympathy for her as well. Like I said, Diva attitude aside, she really did bring a lot to the sport, and it really is a sad note for a champion to leave on.
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Jedisan
Member
01-11-2002
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 4:50 pm
At least 2 of the new moves on the uneven bars is contributed to Khorkina. (or maybe its just one, but its a GOOD one) I feel both sad for her and her legacy, and happy for our team. This Paul Hamm thing wipes me out. I am finding myself enjoying more those events that do not rely on JUDGING. I like the events where time is the concern. You either win by going the fastest (or the highest, or the farthest, etc) But, the artistic side of me loves those events that allow interpreptation of art and music, etc. I know that even those events can get Judged (ie: a ref or ump that makes a bad call) but the simplicity of the racing events makes me feel better about the outcome. (alhtough I find my blood pressure rises often on the racing events) Note to self: Yelling at the TV does not make them go faster, or jump higher, or swing that paddle around the pole in the rafting slalom!!!
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Marysafan
Member
08-07-2000
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 5:46 pm
Jedisan says that Yelling at the TV does not make them go faster, or jump higher, or swing that paddle around the pole in the rafting slalom!!! I say...Are You sure!!! Cuz I've been doing that for years...also I lean my body to help them around corners! ETA...I was totally incensed at tehe questions Andre Joyce was asking Paul Hamm last night. It wasn't his fault, he has done nothing wrong...leave him alone. If the Federation wants to make it right...it's their call. He didn't break it...it's not up to him to fix it.
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 5:59 pm
Did they already show the individual floor exercise? We saw the balance beam just now (YEAH...Carly won Silver!), and they said "that's it." However, the NBC olympic site showed the floor exercise as being on AFTER the balance beam. ANY and ALL info would be appreciated.
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 6:05 pm
Well, gymnastics hasn't been on at all here (Mountain Time) yet, and the Olympics has been airing about an hour. I'm curious to see what they do with the men's vault. (Spoiler to follow in invisible ink. Highlight with cursor if you want to read/know). Alexei Bonderenko fell badly both times. The first vault, he was shook up, but elected to vault again. The second vault, he fell again, walked off, but either collapsed, or just felt bad enough they made him lie down. They ended up carrying him off on a stretcher, fearing a back injury. I'm curious to see if NBC will thirst for "blood" and show it in its entirety, or mention it in passing, and maybe show them carrying him off on the stretcher.
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Curious1
Member
08-31-2002
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 8:34 pm
WOW is all i have to say about tonight's men individual's high bar! If you are deciding whether to stay up late and watch it...well I HIGHLY recommend you do...and if you don't then you should seriously consider taping it!
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Monday, August 23, 2004 - 9:02 pm
I agree Curious! They just finished the coverage here. I think the West Coast still has yet to see it, so I won't elaborate. But, wow!
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Midlifer
Member
04-16-2003
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 3:32 am
I thought that the Russian high bar gymnast was a class act. I am no gymnast (can't even rub my head and stomach at the same time), but I rely on Tim Daggett's evaluation, and even he thought that this guy was cheated. But he took it with grace. What I couldn't understand was the lack of crowd control by the officials. That was HIGHLY unfair for the next group of gymnasts to endure that and be detained. What a bizarre evening. I guess that Paul will now have to apologize for getting the silver. Poor guy. He just can't win (or maybe that's the problem...he does!).
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 4:16 am
All I could think was again? What a bizarre night. What an amazing routine from the Russian. The fact that Paul could even do his routine after that, wow! And the Korean was awful!
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 7:49 am
Wow, WOW, WOW What a competition!! Scoring was all over the place, but DH and I both said Alexei Nemov was incredibly humble. What a classy way to handle such a controversy. I don't know much about gymnastics, but gotta' say, there was NO WAY the Italian guy's routine was better than Nemov's! Thanks to satellite dish and TIVO, I taped it from the West Coast time, so we can watch it again! BTW...the floor exercise did come on later! LOL
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Jagger
Member
08-07-2002
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 8:18 am
I was rather dissapointed in the judging on some of the events, as Tim Dagget said if the one guys vault didn't deserve a "10" noones ever will. He had a spectacular run and a perfect landing yet he only scored a 9.9, he seemed a bit flustered by that score and messed up his next vault pretty badly. I missed all the excitement toward the end of the evening, is it true that the judges changed someones score because the fans got extremely riled up?
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Marysafan
Member
08-07-2000
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 8:33 am
Jagger, they aren't saying why they changed the score...but change it they did. I have never seen a crowd as riled up as that. So it wouldn't surprise me if that was indeed the case, but they aren't owning up to it. Some claim it was a "technical glich". It was just unfortunate that Paul Hamm had to go up next. The crowd booed and jeered for at least 10 minutes and the Russian gymnist even went out to try and calm them down. It was about halfway into Paul's routine before they did. And then when Paul's score came up tying him with the guy in first place (who one the tie-breaker), they started booing again! I was the wildest gymnastics meet I have ever seen and I have seen a lot of them.
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 8:50 am
Nemov got screwed IMHO - he was just fantastic. The Italian who won was great, he should have gotten a silver and Hamm the bronze.
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Curious1
Member
08-31-2002
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 1:14 pm
I completely agree with you GAL....Nemov did 6 release skills (yes 6 with 4 being consecutive)...his routine simply blew the rest out of the water...yes he had a SMALL step on his landing but at least 3/4 of the rest of them had small steps too...I'm glad they re-calculated his score but it was still too low IMO... I was completely shocked though by the crowd's reaction...I've never seen that in all my life and like marysafan said I too have seen alot of meets....I did feel bad for paul hamm though..way too much controversy surrounding his medals, and i'm sure that takes away from the luster of them...it's too bad the judges can't just get the scoring done right..alot of this could be avoided if the judge's would get it right the first time...correct starting point scores and equal deductions for mistakes
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 2:04 pm
I heard someone on the radio today making the point that even though the Russian did six releases, he did not do a lot of other elements like the other gymnists did. I would be kind of like an ice skater doing a bunch of jumps but leaving no time for anything else. I do not know if that had an empact on the judges. He also pointed out that most fans do not realize what a difficult skill the one handed arm swings that Paul Hamm did twice during his routine was. He said they were every bit as difficult as the releases the Russian did. I think the fans often judge on the exciting stuff and miss the details. I am sure I do. I found it interesting also that Tim pointed out that the Korean did four handstands in his routine when the rules clearly state only 3 are allowed. The judges completely missed it. And the deduction that should have been taken off for it. You guessed it. The same amount that he was docked for the start value. There were plenty of mistakes in the judging throughout the competetion especially with the men. Paul Hamm has nothing to apologize for. The Koreans critized the judges but if they had judged correctly, Paul would still have won.
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Beachcomber
Member
08-26-2003
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 2:58 pm
Hamm said this morning on the Today show that the Korean should have been penalized 2/10ths for the extra handstand he did in his routine and the judges did not catch that. So that would have overriden the 1/10th he was not given and dropped him to 4th place overall if it had been counted. Glad that controversy can be put to bed and that Hamm can enjoy being the champ!
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Ketchuplover
Member
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 4:20 pm
Why not just have all routines have a potential of 10 points?
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 5:37 pm
Those one-handed arm swings turn me on. Go figure.
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Colossus
Member
05-24-2004
| Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 6:04 pm
Thats because I do them so well 
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Curious1
Member
08-31-2002
| Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 7:20 am
ROFL at you two! 
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Egbok
Member
07-13-2000
| Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 8:57 am
GAL....I'm married to an ex-gymnast and I could tell you about some one-handed arm swings and other assorted flexible moves that continue to turn me on...LOL!!

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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 9:06 am

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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Friday, August 27, 2004 - 7:40 am
I may have posted the news in the wrong place...apparently the International Gymnastics Federation has asked Paul Hamm to give his gold to the S Korean bronze medalist, since they won't do a dual gold. They say it's the sporting thing for him to do.
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:02 am
Man, this just chaps my hide!!! The FIG wrote a letter to Paul suggesting "Fairplay" and that he should consider turning the gold over to Yang. They took a statement of his out of context and are trying to say they had closed the issue, but since he told USA Today if they (FIG) made the official decision to turn over his medal, he would do as they say. Now FIG is saying since Paul "re-opened" the issue, he should do the "right thing" and turn it over, but it was "entirely" his decision. Here's the letter they sent to him (scroll down past the summary, to the actual letter). FIG Letter to Paul Hamm. However, that's not all. FIG tried to send the letter to Paul through the USOC. The USOC (along with the IOC) are standing behind Paul and strongly supporting him. They refused to send the letter on to Paul, and responded to the FIG that it is not up to the individual athlete to fix the Federation's errors. article And here are some quotes from the USOC press conference. Sorry, can't do a direct link, but scroll down to where it says, QUOTES: USOC press conference regarding gymnastics. I say its about damn time someone steps up and supports this young man.
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Vee
Member
02-23-2004
| Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:18 am
Unbelievable that this is still an issue with the IGF. Is it the classic "Americans steal everything" attitude? Sometimes I can't help but think so. Paul Hamm has represented the U.S. very honorably and has shown impressive character through this entire ordeal. Either give two gold medals or leave it alone, but do not even suggest that Paul give up his medal. Ridiculous!
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:38 am
Of course the biggest travesty from all this is the way Paul has been treated, by both the FIG and the media. Over on the gymnastics board, they are wondering if he will even continue in the sport. Personally, I also wonder if Morgan will as well. I can't see how either of them could receive fair treatment by the FIG if they continue (I can see Morgan getting a "guilt by association" thing). What could have been a wonderful STORY to bring interest to the sport (twins competing at the elite level) will probably forever be tarnished by the inept actions of the FIG. In the past, champions who have proclaimed they want to continue in the sport have been basically treated like trash later and basically told to "just go away." I asked about this on the GGMB the other day, as I recall some sort of reference by Mary Lou Retton about being all ready to continue, and basically being blackballed (like not being invited to meets and such). The people on that board confirmed it, and also said that Julianne MacNamera and Diane Durham had also wanted to continue, but were lowballed at meets until they "got the message." Another person responded and said Shannon Miller's dad was quoted in a '93 paper that when Shannon announced she was going to continue, "they" (I don't know if it was US or International Federation) were "not too happy" about it. At least Shannon went on to do the sport proud. I just hope the Hamm twins will continue, as they are so young, and still have so much to offer the sport. If the Federation can do that to athletes who never had a controversy surrounding them, then what in the heck would/could they do to Paul if he decides to continue? Not only that, but what should have been a celebrated moment of the first EVER medalists by the Koreans will always be looked at (by them) as unacceptable because they "should have" won gold. Just sad, sad, sad all around.
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Clsteam
Member
06-27-2004
| Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:17 am
man i feel sorry for Paul Hamm and the Korean guy. They should offer 2nd gold to the Korean... there must be a heavy Paul bashing in Korea, which is so unfair to Paul..if i were him, i would give the gold medal to the korean so that he can feel better and people will appreciate of what he did.. coz even now he got the gold... everyone knows that he didnt deserve it
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:36 am
The FIG screwed this up royally, and the ones paying are Paul Hamm and Mr. Yang (please forgive me, I can't remember the man's first name). Both of them deserve better than they've received. Ideally, Hamm would have said "I am more than happy to share this gold medal, it wasn't Yang's fault that the scoring errors occurred." Even if he said "I should have the silver, Yang should have the gold," Hamm's stock (commercial endorsements and otherwise) would have gone way up with the American and International public, instead of dropping as a result of his mistreatment in the press. NONETHELESS!! - the man is a competitor, a hard-training athlete, and these kind of mistakes, gross errors or out-and-out fixes must happen all the time without recourse at a the lesser meets. We all saw it at the pairs skating finals of the 2002 Winter Olympics, every subjective sport has this kind of shit on its plate. Doesn't make it ok, but it is a fact of life in these kinds of sports. For Hamm to say "it's mine, I'm keeping it unless ordered otherwise" I think simply reflects his experience in the sport, where the same thing has happened to him and others again and again. Yang would likely say the same thing if the tables were turned. FIG needs to clean house. Hamm and Yang both have valid points of view. I wish they could both experience the fruits of their hard work in the manner they hoped to achieve them (sorry for the bad grammar LOL).
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