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Archive through June 09, 2004

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions: 2004 May - July: The Reagan Funeral: Archive through June 09, 2004 users admin

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Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I understand this is the first State funeral in 30 years. I know the ceremony is steeped in tradition. I thought this would be a good place to discuss, ask questions (and of course get them answered).

First of all, who was the last State Funeral held for? My memory fails me at the moment. I just barely remember snippets of the Kennedy funeral, and I think that was more through clips and photos years later.

I'm always interested in tradition. And I'm willing to bet most of every moment in the funeral being covered is well planned and based on some tradition or another.

My first question would be, what is the meaning behind the riderless horse, and the boots placed backwards in the saddle? I know its for a fallen president/leader. But why a riderless horse? And what does the backwards boots symbolize?

Also, the gentleman who has been escorting Nancy around at these ceremonies. He looks like the same man who was at the funeral home (the last time I saw coverage). Is he the same man? Who is he, and is there a reason why he was chosen?

Jmm
Member

08-16-2002

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Who, I believe I can answer your first question, but I have no clue about the identity of the man with Mrs. Reagan.

When a Roman soldier died, his horse was led behind his coffin in the funeral procession. Once the marchers reached the cemetery, the soldier would be buried and his horse would be killed and buried with him not only as a tribute but also as a way of equipping him to ride into battle in the afterlife. The belief was that a horse trained for battle by its rider could not have two masters, and as a result, the horse was retired. The addition of the boots appears to be of later origin. The belief is that the empty boots signify that their owner is gone and that with boots in the stirrups, no one else can ride the horse. The riderless horse in today's procession is simply a ceremonial reflection of an ancient military tradition. No animals are harmed.

Halfunit
Member

09-02-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Who, I know this one from some police funerals I've been to.

Riderless Horse

Symbolize the rider not returning. It originates from times when horses were the primary means of transportation. The boots are reversed in the stirrups symbolizing the missing rider.

I am completely riveted by this type of tradition. This is the first State Funeral that I have witnessed.

PS - The newscasters threw out Eisenhower and Johnson as the most recent, but I'm not sure I heard it right.


Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hmmmm...maybe the boots came in as a replacement to killing the horse! And I guess if they're turned backwards, it even more guarantees no one else can ride it? Or I wonder if the backwards thing is some other sort of symbolism?

ETA..oops, we were both posting at the same time Half!

Babyruth
Member

07-19-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well, I posted in the wrong thread! My two cents is in the "In Memory of a President" thread.

Half, it rivets me, too.

Landi
Member

07-29-2002

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
the last state funeral was held for lyndon johnson. nixon had resigned as president, so he did not receive a state funeral. no other president has died since then.

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Babyruth, where's that thread? I did a search on topics concerning Reagan before starting this one, to avoid being repetitive. How did I miss it?

Rupertbear
Member

09-19-2003

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It's in the News & Views area, Who.

Halfunit
Member

09-02-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Factoids

WASHINGTON — Ronald Reagan will be remembered at the first presidential state funeral in more than three decades, a ritual rich in traditions from the country's earliest days.

Presidents, former presidents and presidents-elect are entitled to state funerals. It is left to the family to decide whether one should be held and how involved it is.

No detail in the planning is too small.

The military, for instance, has a 138-page planning document that dictates everything from seating charts to floral arrangements. Processions must move at 20 mph. The footsteps of military guards are elaborately prescribed.

Link with more.

It's weird - Unit and I were in that very room last month.


Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Ah. Thanks RB. Well, I hope I didn't get redundant. I don't visit News & Views very often.

ETA...posting at the same time again Half! . Thanks for the link. I'll have to read it more in-depth when I get back from the store.

Rupertbear
Member

09-19-2003

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
No...this is perfect , sweetie. I am enjoying your thread! (((hugs)))

Babyruth
Member

07-19-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Naaah, that's for thoughts honoring him.

This thread is about the state funeral ceremony, right?

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Sure, good distinction!

Carrie92
Member

09-15-2003

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm riveted, too. Nancy strikes me as so... elegant, graceful? That's not the word I'm looking for, but I'm sure you know what I mean.


Anyway, I'm watching it on Fox News. I couldn't stand all the chitchat during the procession of the caisson. Fox has stayed mostly silent, but for a few snippets of talk, explaining the riderless horse, and the missing man flyover. It's been a much better experience to just view it without the commentary.

I liked what Cheney just said.

Babyruth
Member

07-19-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
This is such a beautiful service.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Yes, Landi is correct, the last official state funeral held in Washington was for Lyndon Johnson. However, when we think of a state funeral with a caisson and riderless horse, most Americans think of JFK's funeral. Jackie O attended to every detail and modeled JFK's funeral after Lincoln's funeral (caisson and riderless horse as well.)

However, Nixon's funeral was a state funeral, but held in his home town at the request of his family.

As to the riderless horse, it dates back to Ghengis Kahn, according to NBC and Tom Brokaw. An old tradition for a lost warrior. The riderless horse with boots reversed in stirrups (Reagan's favorite pair of boots) signifies the warrior will never ride again. It is an honor reserved for Colonels and higher (including the Commander in Chief.)

Hope this helps.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have to agree, Babyruth, a very beautiful service. Cheney's words were very good as well.

This is the first state funeral I've ever witnessed, actually. It's very ceremonial.

Lovely choir.

Beachcomber
Member

08-26-2003

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Our local paper stated that it is up to the president's family whether it will be an official state funeral in Washington. Harry Truman died months before Lyndon Johnson, but his wife Bess was too ill to travel to Washington, so the state funeral was held in his hometown. It also stated that Nixon could have had a state funeral in Washington but the family and Nixon (stated prior to his death) that he did not want it.

This is beautiful and very moving. The Senate chaplain gave a really good speech I thought and Nancy has held up so well through this all. God bless her strength and fortitude.

Beachcomber
Member

08-26-2003

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
President Reagan's last public appearance was at Nixon's state funeral in Yorba Linda, CA.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Former Presidents (and I assume the current one) fills at annually a form that has all their funeral arrangements and special requests on it. Reagan's has been up dated every year.
Many other's besides former Presidents have had state funerals. McArthur, Claude Pepper, and the two policemen killed at the Capitol to name a few.

I was so great touched by the respect of the crowds and for the most part the medai.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
oh, and I am not sure what the relationship is, if any, but it has been the same soldier that has escorted Mrs. Reagan through out every thing.

Where was Michael Reagan? I didn't see him in the Rotunda.

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have to give huge props to Mrs. Reagan. I looked her up on IMDB to see how old she was. She's 83....turned 83 on the 6th, the day after her husband died.

All I can say is...wow. She has to be just completely exhausted. Yet here she is at 83, all that walking, all that standing. It has to be taking a huge toll on her. And you know her own health suffered during the last 10 years while caring for "Ronny."

Babyruth
Member

07-19-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
He stepped up and kissed the flag draped casket towards the end of the ceremony.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Michael?

Who, I agree. Seeing her waving in the car, and the gratitude on her face when she was walking down the street while the were putting the casket on the casson was quite amazing.

Carrie92
Member

09-15-2003

Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Pulls my heart strings every time I've seen her pat that casket....