Author |
Message |
Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 7:44 pm
I thought it had something to do with farmers and their crops
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Texasdeb
Member
05-23-2003
| Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 7:53 pm
I just remember when growing up in the 60's - 70's in OK - our state did not do the daylight savings time thing (if they did - I sure missed it)
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 8:02 pm
I think the farmers and their crops is why kids have such a long summer vacation, Pamy. They used to help out at harvest time in the olden days.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 8:46 pm
Well, I grew up on a farm and it never mattered what the clock said....the work was done when there was light out! Besides, the crops were illiterate and they couldn't tell time anyhow! It just seems like an inadequate reason/explanation (to me) that most Americans have to disrupt their internal biological clocks twice a year for this....especially since there is never any kind of clear consensus or agreement as to why this practice continues. If there was a really good reason for it, I think we'd all know what it was, wouldn't we? Besides, I think there are some states that don't use daylight savings time. (I think Arizona is one, but I'm not positive). If they can survive without this hassle twice a year, why can't the rest of us?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 8:50 pm
I found this on the net somewhere a long time ago.....but still, it does not answer (to my satisfaction) why we still do this today. Daylight Saving is the system of setting clocks one or two hours ahead so that both sunrise and sunset occur at a later hour, producing an additional period of daylight in the evening. In the North Temperate Zone, clocks are usually set ahead one hour in the spring and set back to standard time in the fall. The idea of daylight saving was mentioned in a whimsical essay in 1784 by Benjamin Franklin titled "Turkey vs. Eagle, McCauley is my Beagle." It was first advocated seriously by a British builder, William Willet (1865-1915), in the pamphlet "Waste of Daylight" (1907). When questioned as to why he didn't simply get up an hour earlier, Willet replied with typical British good humor, "What?" Daylight saving has been used in the United States and in many European countries since World War I, when the system was adopted in order to conserve fuel needed to produce electric power. Some localities reverted to standard time after the war, but others retained daylight saving. During World War II, the U.S. Congress passed a law putting the entire country on war time, which set clocks one hour ahead of standard time. War time was also followed in Great Britain where, in an act of one-upmanship, clocks were put ahead still another hour during the summer. In the U.S. during peacetime, daylight saving was a subject of controversy. Farmers, who usually work schedules determined by sun time and are therefore inconvenienced when they must conduct business on a different time basis, registered strong opposition. Because of their accents, they were ignored. Railroad, bus, and plane scheduling was so hampered by time inconsistencies among various cities and states that the repercussions are still being felt today. The Uniform Time Act, enacted by the U.S. Congress in 1966, established a system of uniform (within each time zone) daylight saving time throughout the U.S. and its possessions, exempting only those states in which the legislatures voted to keep the entire state on standard time. Under legislation enacted in 1986, daylight saving time begins at 2 a.m. on the first Sunday of April and ends at 2 a.m. on the last Sunday of October.
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 9:30 pm
I have no idea what this thread is about.........
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 9:35 pm
it wasn't explained to me either Hippy. I "think" it has something to do with a guy named Murray Hill who sits on cracked toliet seats all day in certain parts of the country to produce gas for electrical power, he does this while having phone sex with chickens. But I could be wrong.
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Kaili
Member
08-31-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 5:40 am
Arizona doesn't do daylight savings (except for the Navaho reservation- they do it)- also that are parts of either Ohio or Indiana that don't do it. I think it's maybe a couple of rebellious counties.
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Kaykay
Member
01-21-2004
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 6:14 am
Zmom - LOL!! That cracked me up 
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Bandit
Member
07-29-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 7:36 am
LOL!!!!
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 7:48 am
Lol, Zmom. Kaili, it is in Indiana that they don't switch.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:19 am
Well, I think my question is still unanswered....there seems to be no solid reason why we still do DST. The "saving energy" reasoning seems a bit out of whack....if we get up later and save energy by not having to turn on the lights in the morning....we still wind up turning the lights on an hour earlier that night, right?....so that cancels out that argument. As for kids going to school in the dark....how come the kids in Arizona and Indiana have no problem with it? It would seem more efficient for the school system to just adjust their hours and start later during part of the year or something. Why make me readjust my internal clock because some kid goes to school in the dark across the country? Besides, the school system has the most flexible, changing schedule of any institution in America...they could very easily just start and stop an hour later during the shortest days of the year! I guess DST might've made sense during WW2 for saving energy resources for the war effort, and having black-outs and stuff like that, but we don't have those same issues today. (yes we have a war....but nothing like WW2 that caused widespread food and metal rationing and widespread black-outs like then) I think there must be some money being made by some special interest group somewhere (although I have yet to figure out how), since there just isn't a reasonable explanation to continue this.
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Jan
Member
08-01-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:13 pm
Sanfran...I think it has to do with the sun...you lucky guys who live in sunny climates (like Calif. and Arizona) have no real need for it. But us poor sadsacks who live in the snowy/rainy areas..well it gets pretty dang dark when the sun is not around  So when we gain or lose an hour it redistributes the sunshiny hours for us. When we jump ahead, instead of getting up in the pitch dark, it is brighter out. When we jump back, it naturally gets brighter here that early in the AM anyway so we are OK ..but now we have some daylight hours later into the day. ie the time of the sunrise and sunset changes in nature up here, so we have to change our clocks around to try and keep up with it I don't know if I have explained it well.. but it sure makes sense to me in my northern clime  
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:34 pm
I understand that the times of sunrise and sunset change during the year....it does that even here in CA! I used to have a job here in SF where my hours were 7am to 3pm....and even with DST, I was going to work in the dark for awhile each year. If there is a legitimate regional need for this, I just don't understand why the rest of the country does it without question, except for a few exceptions - Arizona is next door to CA and they don't observe it....so why does CA? I guess my real question is asking "Why is this a country-wide observance?" For many people, it's nothing more than a disruption that we have to adjust to twice a year. Actually, if employers and school districts would simply change their hours to start and stop a half hour later, that would average out the daylight hours over the entire year and then it could just stay that way! Can you tell I think DST is a waste of time? (pun intended)
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:43 pm
Josh..you are kidding!! The times of sunrise/sunset changes out in CA??? I should hook you up with my dh. Twice a year I have to hear him rail against the government about the stupidity of daylight savings time!!! Now, his choice is dark am, light longer..what's yours?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:44 pm
I think I found the answer to my question! It's #2 on this list: http://www.wilk4.com/humor/humorm47.htm
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:48 pm
Texannie....I have the perfect solution. I say next October when when we're supposed to turn the clocks back an hour, we just turn it back a HALF HOUR instead and then leave it that way forever! That averages out the daylight for the whole country for the whole year.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:53 pm
Josh..I truly did LOL at that (my dogs looked at me more strangely than usual!) I think that sounds like a perfect solution!! btw..do you ever watch West Wing? they had an episode where they were in Indiana, and some missed the plane cause it left from a county that didn't do the same time zone as the rest of Indiana..it was funny to see the rail against the state! LOL glad to know Dave Barry doesn't know!
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:54 pm
As far as the children going to school... part of the concern was for their safety. Less chance they'd be run over by a car....and anyway, I don't think too many parents would be comfortable sending out little ones in the dark, to school.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 12:58 pm
Here's the official goverment explanation http://www.energy.ca.gov/daylightsaving.html Daylight Saving Time Saves Energy One of the biggest reasons we change our clocks to Daylight Saving Time (DST) is that it saves energy. Energy use and the demand for electricity for lighting our homes is directly connected to when we go to bed and when we get up. Bedtime for most of us is late evening through the year. When we go to bed, we turn off the lights and TV. In the average home, 25 percent of all the electricity we use is for lighting and small appliances, such as TVs, VCRs and stereos. A good percentage of energy consumed by lighting and appliances occurs in the evening when families are home. By moving the clock ahead one hour, we can cut the amount of electricity we consume each day. Studies done in the 1970s by the U.S. Department of Transportation show that we trim the entire country's electricity usage by about one percent EACH DAY with Daylight Saving Time. Daylight Saving Time "makes" the sun "set" one hour later and therefore reduces the period between sunset and bedtime by one hour. This means that less electricity would be used for lighting and appliances late in the day. We also use less electricity because we are home fewer hours during the "longer" days of spring and summer. Most people plan outdoor activities in the extra daylight hours. When we are not at home, we don't turn on the appliances and lights. A poll done by the U.S. Department of Transportation indicated that Americans liked Daylight Saving Time because "there is more light in the evenings / can do more in the evenings." While the amounts of energy saved per household are small...added up they can be very large. In the winter, the afternoon Daylight Saving Time advantage is offset by the morning's need for more lighting. In spring and fall, the advantage is less than one hour. So, Daylight Saving Time saves energy for lighting in all seasons of the year except for the four darkest months of the year (November, December, January and February) when the afternoon advantage is offset by the need for lighting because of late sunrise. A study was released in May 2001 by the State of California's Energy Commission to see if creating an early DST or going to a year-round DST will help with the electricity problems the state faced in 2000-2001-2002. To download a copy of the study, Effects of Daylight Saving Time on California Electricity Use, please look for: Publication # 400-01-13 In May 2001, the California state legislature sent a Senate Joint Resolution (SJRX2 1) to the White House and Congress asking that states be allowed to extend Daylight Saving Time year round. The resolution can be viewed at: http://leginfo.ca.gov//cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sjrx2_1&sess=PREV&house=B&site=sen. Congress and the White House did not act on the request because of the world-changing events of September 11, 2001. No new legislation has been passed in California since then. But why do we have Daylight Saving Time to begin with? Who created the laws and regulations that we follow? History of Daylight Saving Time Daylight Saving Time is a change in the standard time of each time zone. Time zones were first used by the railroads in 1883 to standardize their schedules. According to the The Canadian Encyclopedia Plus by McClelland & Stewart Inc., Canada's "[Sir Sandford] Fleming also played a key role in the development of a worldwide system of keeping time. Trains had made obsolete the old system where major cities and regions set clocks according to local astronomical conditions. Fleming advocated the adoption of a standard or mean time and hourly variations from that according to established time zones. He was instrumental in convening an International Prime Meridian Conference in Washington in 1884 at which the system of international standard time -- still in use today -- was adopted." In 1918, the U.S. Congress made the U.S. rail zones official under federal law and gave the responsibility to make any changes to the Interstate Commerce Commission, the only federal transportation regulatory agency at the time. When Congress created the Department of Transportation in 1966, it transferred the responsibility for the time laws to the new department. The American law by which we turn our clock forward in the spring and back in the fall is known as the Uniform Time Act of 1966. The law does not require that anyone observe Daylight Saving Time; all the law says is that if we are going to observe Daylight Saving Time, it must be done uniformly. Daylight Saving Time has been around for most of this century and even earlier. Benjamin Franklin, while a minister to France, first suggested the idea in an essay titled "An Economical Project for Diminishing the Cost of Light." The essay was first published in the Journal de Paris in April 1784. But it wasn't for more than a century later that an Englishman, William Willett, suggested it again in 1907. Willett was reportedly passing by a home where the shades were down, even though the sun was up. He wrote a pamphlet called "The Waste of Daylight" because of his observations. Willett wanted to move the clock ahead by 80 minutes in four moves of 20 minutes each during the spring and summer months. In 1908, the British House of Commons rejected advancing the clock by one hour in the spring and back again in the autumn. Willett's idea didn't die, and it culminated in the introduction of British Summer Time by an Act of Parliament in 1916. Clocks were put one hour ahead of Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) during the summer months. England recognized that the nation could save energy and changed their clocks during the first World War. In 1918, in order to conserve resources for the war effort, the U.S. Congress placed the country on Daylight Saving Time for the remainder of WW I. It was observed for seven months in 1918 and 1919. The law, however, proved so unpopular that it was later repealed. When America went to war again, Congress reinstated Daylight Saving Time on February 9, 1942. Time in the U.S. was advanced one hour to save energy. It remained advanced one hour forward year-round until September 30, 1945. In England, the energy saving aspects of Daylight Saving were recognized again during WWII. Clocks were changed two hours ahead of GMT during the summer, which became known as Double Summer Time. But it didn't stop with the summer. During the war, clocks remained one hour ahead of GMT though the winter. From 1945 to 1966, there was no U.S. law about Daylight Saving Time. So, states and localities were free to observe Daylight Saving Time or not. This, however, caused confusion -- especially for the broadcasting industry, and for trains and buses. Because of the different local customs and laws, radio and TV stations and the transportation companies had to publish new schedules every time a state or town began or ended Daylight Saving Time. By 1966, some 100 million Americans were observing Daylight Saving Time through their own local laws and customs. Congress decided to step in end the confusion and establish one pattern across the country. The Uniform Time Act of 1966 (15 U.S. Code Section 260a) created Daylight Saving Time to begin on the last Sunday of April and to end on the last Sunday of October. Any area that wanted to be exempt from Daylight Saving Time could do so by passing a local ordinance. The law was amended in 1986 to begin Daylight Saving Time on the first Sunday in April. Embargo Changes Daylight Saving Time Following the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo, Congress put most of the nation on extended Daylight Saving Time for two years in hopes of saving additional energy. This experiment worked, but Congress did not continue the experiment in 1975 because of opposition -- mostly from the farming states. In 1974, Daylight Saving Time lasted ten months and lasted for eight months in 1975, rather than the normal six months (then, May to October). The U.S. Department of Transportation -- which has jurisdiction over Daylight Saving Time in the U.S. -- studied the results of the experiment. It concluded: Daylight Saving Time saves energy. Based on consumption figures for 1974 and 1975, The Department of Transportation says observing Daylight Saving Time in March and April saved the equivalent in energy of 10,000 barrels of oil each day -- a total of 600,000 barrels in each of those two years. California Energy Commission studies confirm a saving of about one percent per day. Daylight Saving Time saves lives and prevents traffic injuries. The earlier Daylight Saving Time allowed more people to travel home from work and school in daylight, which is much safer than darkness. And except for the months of November through February, Daylight Saving Time does not increase the morning hazard for those going to school and work. Daylight Saving Time prevents crime. Because people get home from work and school and complete more errands and chores in daylight, Daylight Saving Time also seems to reduce people's exposure to various crimes, which are more common in darkness than in light. The Department of Transportation estimated that 50 lives were saved and about 2,000 injuries were prevented in March and April of the study years. The department also estimated that $28 million was saved in traffic accident costs. Newer studies, however, reportedly challenge the earlier claims of safety and crime prevention under DST. Further research probably is warranted. Congress and President Reagan Change Daylight Saving Time Daylight Saving Time was changed slightly in 1986 when President Reagan signed Public Law 99-359. It changed Daylight Saving Time from the last Sunday in April to the first Sunday in April. No change was made to the ending date of the last Sunday in October. This was done ostensibly to conserve energy during the month of April. Adding the entire month of April is estimated to save nationwide about 300,000 barrels of oil each year. More About TIME Many countries observe Daylight Saving Time. But the beginning and ending dates are often different than those used in the United States. The book, The Official Airline Guide, is one of the best sources of information about whether or not Daylight Saving Time is observed in another country. You can find out more information about Daylight Saving Time by writing TIME, c/o Office of General Counsel, U.S. Department of Transportation, Washington, D.C. 20590. Another Web site about DST can be found at: http://www.webexhibits.com/daylightsaving/, which is a public service of the Institute for Dynamic Educational Advancement (IDEA) by WebExhibits as a compliment to www.time.gov. The U.S. Naval Observatory's Web site gives the current time for all time zones, and it's free. Go to: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/timer.pl. Note, however, that with Internet traffic and delays on servers and browsers, that the correct time may be off a few seconds or more. For the correct time of the day, you can call the Department of Transportation at 900-410-TIME. There is a charge for the call. Or check with your local phone company to see if there is a local dial up time service such as "POP-CORN." Some phone companies also have a local number you can call for the current correct local time. Call directory assistance in your area for the number to call for the correct time. One question people always ask about Daylight Saving Time regards the time that restaurants and bars close. In many states, liquor cannot be served after 2 a.m. But at 2 a.m. in the fall, the time switches back one hour. So, why can't they serve for that additional hour in October? The answer: the bars do not close at 2 a.m. but actually at 1:59 a.m. So, they are already closed when the time changes from Daylight Saving Time into Standard Time. Final observations: It is Daylight Saving (singular) Time, NOT Daylight SavingS Time. We are saving daylight, so it is singular and not plural. Daylight Saving Time differs in other areas of the world. Consult a good encyclopedia for additional information about DST in your own country. Or check out the "World Time Zone" or the "WorldTime" Web pages at: www.worldtimezone.com/daylight.html www.worldtimeserver.com/ www.worldtime.com Thanks for all your e-mail! We are amazed that this page gets so much attention, usually twice a year. While we appreciate the e-mail, we can not answer a lot of your specific questions. For example, we do not have the ability to tell you whether DST was practiced on a specific date or by a specific region/state/city/town in the past. Check out microfilm or old printed copies of your local newspapers around early April and late October of the years you are interested in. They will usually have stories or reminders about setting your clock. Those papers are a good indicator. Your local libraries should be able to help you with the microfilmed or printed copies of the old newspapers. If you are interested in changing DST, either abolishing it or having it extended year-round....please do not contact the California Energy Commission. We have no jurisdiction over DST. Instead, contact your state's elected officials or your Congressional representatives. you can also contact the U.S. Dept of transportation in Washington, D.C. A final note, especially in that one of my uncles was a fire chief in Connecticut, my step son is a firefighter, and one of my colleagues has a family member who is the former fire chief in Sacramento...with the change of Daylight Saving Time, it's a good time to change the batteries in your smoke detector(s). Changing the batteries twice a year will make sure that the detector(s) will be working in case there is a fire. Some inexpensive detectors also need to be replaced completely about every five years or so. Also make sure you dispose of the old batteries and alarms properly. Check with your local solid waste disposal company or waste management board to find out the best way to dispose of old batteries and the alarms. Daylight Saving Time In the United States 1990 Through 2004 In spring, move clocks forward one hour. In fall, turn clocks backward one hour. Year DST Begins 2 a.m. DST Ends 2 a.m. 1990 April 1 October 28 1991 April 7 October 27 1992 April 5 October 25 1993 April 4 October 31 1994 April 3 October 30 1995 April 2 October 29 1996 April 7 October 27 1997 April 6 October 26 1998 April 5 October 25 1999 April 4 October 31 2000 April 2 October 29 2001 April 1 October 28 2002 April 7 October 27 2003 April 6 October 26 2004 April 4 October 31 Any reprinting of this document is prohibited without prior approval. © 1995-2004 Bob Aldrich -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Commission Homepage | Site Index | Search Site | Glossary | Links | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page Updated: January 20, 2004
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:00 pm
This is for Josh! http://www.standardtime.com/ http://www.mccsc.edu/time.html#WHAT
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:04 pm
But Rupertbear, if that was really the case, then that would mean that kids in AZ would have a higher percentage of kids in accidents or getting lost in the dark or something, wouldn't it? What state would advocate hurting the kids? I'm sure if that was the case, AZ would reconsider DST use. Besides, if it's for that reason, why can't the various school districts just adjust their start and stop times? They already have the most flexible schedule of any institution in America....school already starts at different times in different areas and they have the whole summer off, when DST is supposed to be the most helpful! I think the school/kids argument is really just a grasp for a reason to explain something that actually has no compelling reason to continue.
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:10 pm
I guess because the don't want to be on SJT (Sanfranjosh Time). In the Scruples thread, many people don't mind eating at a friends house whose hygiene is questionable. It bothers me. This however is like water off a ducks back, duckie...doesn't bother me in the least to switch twice a year. Guess we all have things that do and don't bother us. ;)
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:14 pm
I guess I found the answer to my question - "BEAUROCRACY!" 
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:16 pm
Lmao...well kiddo, you could always be Azjoshfan... ;)
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 1:20 pm
Hahahahaha!!!! ZMom,I'm so glad you are going to Vegas!
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Lumbele
Member
07-12-2002
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 2:01 pm
As much as I hate the readjustment period after "springing" forward or "falling" back, I agree with Jan. Sanfran, some of us have to catch the rays when they make themselves available. The ones I really feel sorry for are the Newfs. Imagine having to remember that your show is 90 minutes before EDT.LOL ROFLMHO, Zmom
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Zachsmom
Member
07-13-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 3:21 pm
I am glad I am going too Hippy..I just hope we don't run into Murray 
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Jbean
Member
01-05-2002
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 5:09 pm
i think they don't change their time in arkansas, either. at least they ain't supposed to. i used to live in branson, mo (1/2 and hour north of ark.), and i remember when they changed the law. i had a friend who lived in omaha, ark. and of course they (she and her family) changed their time because they worked in missouri. i have always hated the springing forward part in particular. i am not a morning person, and having an hour taken away from my sleep time, well, it just isn't pretty! however, i do enjoy the benefits of the sun being out longer. just this year when we had to "spring forward" i was asking my mom and grandma why the heck they started DS in the first place. their answers were the same as what i have read here. ok, now i dont' feel so confused about this thread. but that first page of posts...whew.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 5:16 pm
One of my favorite Americans is Benjamin Franklin. Whether you are putting on a pair of flippers to go snorkeling or whether you are using one of those claws to grab something from the top shelf in the supermarket, the idea started with Ben and daylight savings time is no different: DST was first conceived by Benjamin Franklin during his sojourn as an American delegate in Paris in 1784, in an essay, "An Economical Project for Diminishing the Cost of Light". The essay was first published in the Journal de Paris on 1784-04-26. For more details go to: http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/franklin.html."
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Alegria
Member
07-05-2002
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 5:55 pm
That is such a great article. The website is also wonderful. It is amazing what is behind the things we take for granted 
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Babyruth
Member
07-19-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 8:16 pm
They do daylight savings time in Australia, too, (so says me Mum).
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Urgrace
Member
08-19-2000
| Friday, June 04, 2004 - 8:54 pm
Rupertbear, I am one of the ones who answered yes in the scruples thread today. As an explanation for my answer, most people don't invite you to their house to eat unless you are friends or co-workers and you've known them long enough to know how they live. If I go to their house I will eat their food, otherwise I wouldn't accept the invitation. It just so happens that this very thing did occur once for me. The friends owned a fabulous restaurant and bar, frequented by patrons from all over. Their kitchen was very clean, but the rest of the house was quite neglected due to the hours they worked in the restaurant. I could write my name in the layers of dust on the coffee table, but their cook stove glistened. SanFranJoshFan, I wondered why we didn't overturn the ruling that no longer applies to DST. Then I figured it had to do with the stock market. Someone is making money or it wouldn't matter. People don't live by the sun anymore. Young adults who live around here don't even go out at 7pm for a date or to meet their friends, but leave the house at 9pm or later - AFTER dark. Oh, and Hawaiians don't change their clocks either.
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 7:25 am
Well Urgrace....as I said in the Scruples thread, we all are different but to me....if a friend asks you over for a meal and then doesn't even care enough to clean up the house...I dunno, many will think I'm too harsh but it's a matter of respect too. And I just would not feel comfortable in a house like that. Call me strange if you like, I don't mind. lol
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