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Herckleperckle
Member
11-20-2003
| Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:08 pm
War, I'm with Deesandy. If I had a young dd, I'd sure be hoping she'd eventually meet your angel son! Kids only model what they see at home, you know. So, dear, you should be mighty proud of your incredibly intuitive and caring young man.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:02 pm
This is kind of a combo question. How do you bully proof your child and also have them quit playing the victim? Every day practically, my dd (10) comes home from school telling of how so and so did such and such to her and made her cry or so and so won't play with her and tells all the others to not play with her.(i think this has always been going on, worse since about 3 grade) There was a pretty terrible incident with one girl this year, but that was addressed. But other than that, mainly the won't play ect complaints. We've had the talks about don't let these people get to you, you give them the power they are craving if you show them you are upset, just walk away ect. But nothing seems to change. My dd tends to want to lash back when she is hurt and I have seen her be snotty too, so I am not trying to portray her as an angel. In fact, I am trying to figure out if she is more of a factor than she is letting on, if she is liking being the 'victim'...what's the pay off for her if there is one. Or if I need to get into the school and really kick some a$$. It's been going on for so long that frankly I am probably not being the supportive mom. I am getting quite frustrated that she can't seem to brush the stuff off. I have talked to the school in the past and she does where her heart on her sleeve and is an easy target in alot of ways. She also seems to be drawn to the snottier ones. Today for example, she was doing some skit and acting like a 'dumb' person. A boy said 'well you didn't need to act, you are dumb'. She burst into tears and the boy got written up when the teacher found out why she was crying. Now, I agree that was a snotty thing for the boy to say, and I am sure she was embarrassed. But to be honest, I am not sure that her payback to him was crying so he would get in trouble. So, how do I help her? I feel like she needs to toughen up and not be portraying herself as a victim all the time or she will continue to be an easy target or am i missing something??
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:32 pm
Well I usually always have a different perspective but what dh and I have told our kids is to give as good as you get. #2 had a problem with a bully a year or two ago and we told him that it will continue if you allow the person to do that to you so you need to have good comebacks and if they put their hands on your then you have our permission to defend yourself irregardless of what the school tells you.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:46 pm
My son changed schools in sixth grade and was bullied solidly all through sixth grade and seventh grade. He was picked on, had his books stolen, got threats on the phone and was assaulted. In sixth grade though it was very tough he had nobody to talk to during lunch. There were the bullies aka the cool kids who picked on him and threatened anyone with the same if they talked to him. The one thing that saved him is that he is very self confident and we had long talks about what went on in school. Most of our discussions centered around what would make him even want to be accepted by these kids or be their friends. He had to reach that point himself to recogize that these were not nice kids and kids to stay away from even if they did want to be friends. I know what you mean that you get tired at times of hearing the petty crap that goes on day in and day out. This is their world though and sometimes you do have to step in. You have to judge when to go to the school and when not. I did mention it at report card time and discuss with teachers that I was aware of what was going on and I was leaving it for my son to handle but if anyone laid a hand on him, it would all be over. I did get the ringleader suspended for a week when he attacked my son in front of the school. I personally spoke to the kid before he was suspended and told him that I had enough of him and was going to take care of this problem once and for all. I looked at all his little cohorts and my look made it very clear that they would be next. They told my son you need your mother to fight your battles and he just replied hey if you are stupid enough to beat me up in front of my mother, that isnt my problem. Ee has a good group of friends now because a number of parents whose kids were also being picked on requested that their kids be put in my sons class because he was able to stand up to the bullies. The school of course gave me exactly what I wanted at the end of sixth grade when I told them who was NOT going to be in my sons class in seventh and eight grades!!! I would also like to say that girls can be really horrible. I have seen them isolate other girls. They are usually the ringleaders in terms of deciding who gets talked to. It is very common to see girls say nobody talk to so and so. They bully the boys into doing what they want. I would certainly try and find out who the ringleader is and keep an eye on it. The most important thing was my son's confidence in himself and his ability to tell these people that he didnt give a damn what they said. He also gave as good as he got. My son also recognized that he brought a lot of it on himself by refusing to back down. I wish you luck because I know how hard it can be.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, January 21, 2005 - 4:35 pm
There doesn't seem to be one consistant person who is 'mean', Mocha. There are several which makes me go for my daughter painting herself a victim. It also seems to be both boys and girls picking on her. This is also more snottiness than physical stuff, nothing like you have described, Maris. there are just too many players involved for dd to be 'innocent'. I am trying to figure out what pay off she is getting from all this or if i really am overlooking something.
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Awareinva
Member
08-13-2001
| Friday, January 21, 2005 - 11:06 pm
Maris, reading your post gives me hope. My son (11) started middle school this year and is being picked on by at least three kids. It seems like the teachers don't have a clue. So far it's verbal insults, taking things of his, destroying small things like pencils and erasers. But he did have his finger pinched between desks when one of the bullies moved his desk (couldn't really prove anything and he wasn't really hurt- but it worries me) and he has had some "flicking" incidents. That kind of thing burns me up - especially when the kids seem to feel that it is so common that it's nothing for a parent to get upset about. I tried the "ignore them" "tell the teacher" "ask to be moved" route and it didn't work. Apparently these kids get up and walk around in class so it doesn't matter where he sits. The worst part is that it is happening in his two "advanced" classes where I figured the kids would be more like minded to him and have less of these types of behavior. Then I tried the "give them back the insult so you are not being a target" and "don't ever touch anyone, but if they a hand on you beat the crap out of them" theory...... that is currently where we are now. ( Had to laugh at his reaction to some of my comebacks I suggested- he said "mom, I've never seen this side of you"..I didn't give him any really bad insults, nothing that would get him in trouble for saying, but just hearing mom say some zingers was surprising to him! )His sister who is 13 tells me this is the only way to get along in their school. I am thinking that I will just tell the administrators next year that I will not have them put him in the same classes with these kids. It would be fairly easy because the grades are divided into four teams, each team having their classes together with the same teachers. I think that is what I'll do. I feel like the biggest obstacle he is facing is that he doesn't have any real good friends on his team this year and it kind of sets him apart. I do have to wonder, like Texannie, though if he isn't doing something to facilitate the situation. He tells me sometimes that these kids are in his other classes and are sometimes nice to him when they aren't with the other bullies. It sounds like he wants to have friends so badly that maybe he is approaching them - when I would say leave them alone at all times. Maybe its like kids who act badly with parents- negative attention is better than no attention. Does your daughter have any real good friends who she hangs out with or does she just "graze" like my son and have numerous people that he talks to at school, but no real close friend? I don't know how to fix it though if that is the problem..... too bad that we just don't have a magic wand to wave so we can fix things for our kids. But then I guess they wouldn't ever face adversity and get stronger... catch 22 it seems. 
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, January 21, 2005 - 11:40 pm
It sounds like he wants to have friends so badly that maybe he is approaching them - when I would say leave them alone at all times. Maybe its like kids who act badly with parents- negative attention is better than no attention. I often wonder the exact same thing! She has one really sweet friend. I have heard her fuss and fight with other girls, but these two have never had a cross word with each other. It's funny cause there are several groups in our school and she seems to have issues with at least one or two members in each group. I also think alot of it is the girls all grow up so fast and want to be cool. DD still loves dolls and gets blasted for that, but interestly when these girls come over to play they will play dolls, but they sure use it against her in a group! I am watching her make steps to get away from these kids, changing her extracurriculars ect, she is even interested in going to a charter school next year for middle, but then on the other hand is drawn to them like flies to honey. I just find it so hard to think that so many different people are mean to her without her doing something to contribute, but I feel like the worst mother for thinking that.
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-21-2004
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 10:58 am
Texannie - What you wrote in italics totally explains a problem with one of my girls that just joined the before care program. The town I work in is pretty well off and you can tell who lives in the affordable living apts because the gap is so wide. Anyway, she's new to the school this year and all she does is pick on the other girls in my group. At one point in time she threatened one girl that if she told me anything that the word would get spread that she still wets the bed. (which is not true) . . .I'm at my wit's end with her. 2 days ago, the other girls told me that earlier that week she said to this same girl "Gee Sally, your hair is really ugly today." That sort of thing really hurts this other girl's feelings and if she doesn't say anything to me. . .. what am I supposed to do?
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 11:04 am
Hey Grace, are you in Winfield?
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-21-2004
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:32 pm
no Warrenville but work in Glen Ellyn
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Deesandy
Member
08-12-2003
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:49 pm
Trial set to start for man charged with killing his son's teenage bully http://www.courttv.com/trials/blount/012105_ctv.html
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 1:11 pm
That's tough Grace, but if you are seeing this you've got to be right on top of this child and let her know that behavior will not be tolerated. Also try to set up some activities that she can do with the group that would help her feel a part of it.
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-21-2004
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 1:53 pm
I asked my mom after posting what to do and she told me to write her up more often to let her know if won't be tolerated. She said that the Y is supposed to be a safe place for kids to go so if they are not feeling safe because of her she has to go - and it's true I've had one kid quit the mornings because of her and another tell her mom she's afraid of her. We didn't have problems before this kid started coming. . .
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 3:43 pm
Tex and Grace, those are two good ideas! (writing up and getting bully involved in more activities.)
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 4:14 pm
Wish I could figure out my dd's prob as easy!!
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 10:25 pm
Tex, I have no solutions/suggestions or anything for your dd. Sorry! (and I usually at least 2¢ for just about everything!!!)
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 5:22 pm
I don't really have any advice on what to do. But maybe can offer a point of view as someone who grew up with bullies constantly attacking me. I really can't remember any particular person who was my main tormentor. All I can remember now is that I had few friends, and everyone chose me as the one to belittle as being "different." For me, it was the curly hair (I loathed my hair growing up, and still often consider it the bane of my existence. And even now I have a hard time believing anyone who tells me my hair is pretty). Add to that the overweight, and the glasses, and it was a prime recipe for fodder. Although I can't remember any particular tormentor, I do have vivid memories of how it was handled in my family. If I came home in tears, or complaining about some incident at school, I'd get the "don't let them get to you" speech. And maybe I exasperated my mom with all my problems when she had little ammunition to deal with all her own problems. I really don't know. But the main vivid thing I remember about back then was the response, followed by "oh Marianne" in a 'you can be so annoying and bothersome' tone of voice. What I took away from that was that my feelings were unimportant, and that I had no right to them. As an adult, I realise my mom grew up having her own feelings squashed, and those feelings were primarily hurt by her own parents. I think it was primarily my grandmother that beat my mom's self-esteem into the ground, and then let her know in no uncertain terms she was not allowed to "make a scene" about her feelings. So its little wonder she had no clue how to handle my problems when they came about. The other thing I remember is my mom advising me to "beat them to the punch" and cut myself down before they could do it. That, if effect, would take the "fun" out of hurting me if I said the mean things first. Well, it may have worked a bit. I do remember at least one funny incident that came from that tactic. But what it also led to was me growing up getting used to belittling myself. And I've had many a friend call me on it in my adult life. I don't want to share this with the idea of having anyone feel sorry for me. I just wanted to try and let you know what the long term effects could be on some tactics. On another note, I love your "give what you get" line Mocha! It reminds me of when a neighbor boy was hitting my little sis. When I mentioned it to his mother, she just laughed it off with a "oh, kids will be kids" thing. So, Mom and I told sis the next time he hit her, to hit him back. So, when she finally hauled off and slugged him, naturally his mom called us right away yelling at us that my sis hit her son. My reply was simple, "that's because we told her to." Oh and War, can you please age Caleb by about 40 years and then send him my way? My gosh what a sweetheart!
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-21-2004
| Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 7:57 pm
Texannie you know I think your daughter is taking steps on her own to make a difference. Maybe you should just sit back and see what happens. I was also picked on quite a bit as a kid - tho I can't really remember it bothering me too much. I know it was because I was Indian and from a VERY strict Christian home and let's face it, my imagination was SO wild that I lived in a complete bubble world and I'm def. a circular thinker living in a world of linear thinkers. In fact, my best friend (who remains my best friend to this day) is the ONLY person other than mom and DH that can keep a conversation with me and not walk away totally confused. But I digress. It sounds like your daughter, like myself, knows that she is getting picked on and needs to reroute her peer group in order to get away from it and that's what she's doing. Perhaps a little encouragement from you that she's doing the right thing is what she needs. I know I never really complained to my mom about being picked on and she probably doesn't even realize it happened - but I did get picked on because I was the only non white a lot of times, because I was the only girl in the "smart classes", because I wore glasses (hey I liked my thick rimmed glasses - still do), because I LOVED to wear Indian clothing to school, because I've always preferred to wear dresses and long flowy clothing, I mean you name it, they found things to pick on. The thing is, somehow my parents reinforced it was a good thing to have these differences and it's what made me be an individual and NOT a crowd follower. I can remember that being a crowd follower was always stressed in our house - we were constantly told to do the right thing but to do it our own way. Now it does take a lot of tolerance for a parent - when us kids came home with eyebrow peircings and nose peircings and colored hair and mohawks and all those crazy things - you'll notice my older bro still has purple hair and several peircings and younger bro has a peircing too - I stopped dying my hair funny colors a few years back and my eyebrow ring hole closed up during my senior thesis presentation but I still have the nose ring. We wore shorts in the middle of the winter with 6 inches of snow, when our cars got dents we intentionally got new used parts that were different colors and stuck stickers all over them - I mean we were really odd kids. And yeah, we got made fun of and yeah, sometimes it did bother us. And yeah, sometimes dad would yell at us to take all the stickers off our cars because they attract too much attention. But my mom's main philosophy was that she knew the condition of our hearts and it was the inside that mattered the most to her. So while it is hard for her that the boys have tatoos all over (which she does complain about a lot) she also tells us frequently that she's proud of who we are inside and that we are strong individuals. And people know that we don't do the "normal" thing without thinking it through. I could go on and on about how great my mom was with us but the bottom line I think is she always lets us know she was proud of our good decisions and when she was disappointed she lets us know still. And she always says that the outside does not matter - it's the inside that counts. I know that my bros and I have said frequently that it was her faith in us that really gave us self esteem and courage to do what we've done. like I said somewhere else - if I don't have an update to keep me busy - I post long posts. . .sorry!
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 10:23 pm
Thanks, Grace and Who, you've definitely given me food for thought. I will admit it annoys me tremendously when she lets all this 'get' to her. She has no reason to feel like she isn't good enough, pretty enough ect. It also amazes me that she has the confidence to do her singing and dancing in front of audiences, but so insecure in relationships. I will work on my reaction when she tells me of these incidents.
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 10:49 pm
I would say that when you get annoyed at your dd letting these things 'get to her' you should remember she is only 10. As an adult, and having lived and experienced interactions with countless types of other people, its easier to realise some will try to push your buttons for a variety of reasons. I don't know that a 10 year old has the life experience to grasp that much yet. So its easier for an adult to not let them get to you. We have experienced so many other things now that are more important than a schoolyard brawl. But to a child, this is a huge part of her universe. If I were to look back on myself as a 10 year old, I would have said, "but HOW do I not let them get to me?" Oh, and I performed in a drum and bugle corps from age 10-16. It was a talent I had that made me feel like a part of something. Something of value I had that could contribute to a whole. I could perform with the group, and even competed in individual competition one year. But ask me to initiate a conversation with someone, especially someone I'd never spoken to before, and forget it. Even now I'm not too comfortable with that.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 10:57 pm
Thanks, Who. I will remember that. I just hate seeing her taking on the mantle of 'victim', but I will work on being more comforting with her.
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 11:16 pm
I understand why it would frustrate you Texannie. And please know I'm not trying to be an expert (and you've given no indication that you think that of me. I'm just realizing that I'm getting pretty vocal over something I may know nothing about). I don't know of course what motivates your daughter, or what exactly she says to have you seeing the 'victim' role. Or even what the bullies are saying/doing to her. Obviously I don't have any kids, so its always easier to spew out "well, if it were me I'd...." I think I was trying to just "be the ten year old" again and try to look at it from that perspective. In the long run, its also true that things are much different in the world for 10 year olds now than it was 36 years ago when I was there.
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Deesandy
Member
08-12-2003
| Monday, January 24, 2005 - 6:24 pm
My neighbor found out that she has cancer and that she could die any minute. I sent her flowers to brighten her world. I would like to do something else, but I don't know what to do. Any advice?
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Graceunderfyre
Member
01-21-2004
| Monday, January 24, 2005 - 6:29 pm
Dee when we found out that my Godmother had cancer last fall we weren't terribly upset by it because it was her 4th form of it (2nd time that summer) but within 2 weeks of it her lungs had collapsed and she died within a week of that. To be honest, it's difficult to know what to do because a lot of times the family wants to hole up and just bond together - maybe the best thing as a neighbor is to make sure they are getting food and basic necessities. Does she have family taking care of her? Is she planning to use Hospice? Maybe you can arrange for different people in the neighborhood to make food for them and arrange a time that's good for them to bring the food in each day. And remember the greiving process is different when you get to prepare for it. So they may need help with funeral and memorial arrangements - she may want to make decisions about that kind of stuff. I guess the best thing is to let her know you are available for anything.
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Jmm
Member
08-16-2002
| Monday, January 24, 2005 - 6:33 pm
What about a ready to eat meal? One that she could heat up when they wanted it. Or if you're close enough to her, maybe see if there are things she wants to do for her family that she's not capable of doing now. Writing memory letters for her kids or other family memebers, or just be there to talk to. Some people can't talk about their upcoming death with their family (it's too hard on the family), but they often need someone to talk to about their thoughts and fears.
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