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Archive through September 09, 2004

The TVClubHouse: General Discussions ARCHIVES: 2004 Nov. - 2005 Jan.: Parenting Place {ARCHIVES}: Discipline: Archive through September 09, 2004 users admin

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Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 12:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I really didn't know where to put this,so we'll just start a new thread. This is a post from a blog I read. Lisa Welchel,from "The Facts of Life" has written a parenting book.
This is a mom's opinion on it. See what you think. http://buggydoo.blogspot.com/



Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 12:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
hmmm.. I haven't read her book, but have seen her on tv shows talking about it, and even looked over her website at one time, and I don't remember hearing any of this. Think the book came out in 2000 or so.
I know she and her husband traveled the country for a year homeschooling their kids.
Did a quick google
http://www.homeschool.com/articles/Whelchel/default.asp

couldn't get her webpage up


did find this.
Link





don't think I agree with hot sauce either!

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 8:35 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
If your child wont hold your hand, hold her hair? If your child wants to play with matches burn their favorite toy?
Hot sauce?

I definitely do not agree with this form of parenting. I do not believe that inflicting pain on a child is a means to establish a good relationship or teach him anything. Seems to me that is all about power.

I have never laid a hand on my child, never inflicted any sort of pain on him, not even soap in the mouth. So far, knock wood, I don't have any discipline problems and we can pretty much discuss everything.

Zachsmom
Moderator

07-13-2000

Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 10:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree with Maris, except I do have discipline problems, but those are issues that are different, he has (medical)impulse issues that we are working on. I would never cause my child pain over something that he had no control over. I would never cause my child pain over something he did have control over.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Burning a favorite toy and hot sauce on the tongue isn't discipline, it's bullying! And definitely something I'm not going to teach my children.

We don't spank either and really don't have a discipline problem. Taking away their tv time (they only get 30 minutes to an hour a day) is usually the most effective discipline for them.

Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree with all of you. Reading that she thinks that is discipline burned me up!
Can you imagine burning a favorite toy? What would that teach a child other than their Mother is totally mean? You better do what Mom says or she will destroy all your belongings! So,the kid grows up thinking if he wants to get his way,destroying people's things is the way to go?
And,dragging a kid across the street by his hair? Reminds me of cavemen.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I can remember my fil telling the story of how my dh was attached to a blanket, and one day when dh was around 2, fil just decided that he was too old so he took it away. He left to go play golf. As fil tells it "he cried all day and it was hard on mil but when i got home dh was over it"
He was so proud of his parenting.

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
We take away money from his allowance. Any infraction(talking back, arguing, not doing chores) gets - 1.00.

All we have to do is mention we are going to deduct and problem is solved





Teachmichigan
Member

07-22-2001

Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 8:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
In contrast, let me tell you about my FABULOUS parents! I slept w/ a blankie forever and a day! I can't tell you how often my mom "trim" it to remove a hole, but let me keep the blanket. I still had it when I was 30...and took it on a summer class to Villanova. After I hit about 10, I used the blanket as a "blindfold" for my eyes, and did until that class. Our last morning of class, my roomie and I overslept, had to pack in about 10 minutes to grab the train, and when we arrived in downtown Philly that night, my blankie was gone. I called the apartments where we had stayed but everything had already been cleaned. My blankie was gone.

I've survived (hand towels have the same feel as my old blankie LOL), but when I told my mom about it...SHE cried! That's the kind of parent everyone should have! We were disciplined, but we weren't tormented!

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 2:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
A funny aside to my dh's story. My mil made my son a blanket that became his "blankie". My fil would tell that stupid story to my son and the poor dear would become so frantic. The blankie eventually fell apart. Mil suprised my son with 2 new ones!!
Take that fil! LOL

Enbwife
Member

08-14-2000

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 12:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
That's a horrible way to "discipline" a child. I can't believe someone would actually publish a book telling people to do that to their kids! What ever happened to respecting your child's feelings and treating them as a human being. Nate just turned 2 and we are having a challenging time dealing with the tantrums, the "no's" all day long, etc. but I would never resort to this!!!

Anyone have advice on how to effectively "discipline" a 2 year old? It depends on the day, but there are times when he refuses to let us put his shoes on, refuses to have his diaper changed, refuses to get in the bath, and on and on. I'm all about picking the battles and not making a big deal out of little things, but taking a bath and putting on shoes are kind of a must do.... urghhhh.

Kaykay
Member

01-21-2004

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 12:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
My little man is almost 2 and 1/2. The only thing that works for me is to tell him that "that's the rule". (not that's it's easy) - but i calmly say,
Cole, the rule is that you have to wear shoes to go outside or Mommy's rule is you ahve to change your diaper or you will get a boo boo butt. If he does listen and the shoes go on without a fight, i thank him for following the rules and let him know that i am proud of him.

I may sound goofy but it's the only thing that works for us.

Hippyt
Member

06-15-2001

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 12:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think that's a good idea. When my kids would fight me over the carseat belts,I would tell them "that's the law." Funny,how they would listen to that.


Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 1:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Just be patient and firm and get used to repeating yourself a lot. Sounds lame but that about covers it.

Herckleperckle
Member

11-20-2003

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 1:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I am blabby today, so please know that as you read this. It is not aimed at you, Enbwife. Just one of those topics that make me run at the mouth.

I doubt if there is a single "way' to discipline a 2-year old. It's more that you are sequestered away from the world for awhile til they get past the 'no' stage!

I remember my doc telling me this story of his own children. His wife, 2-year old son, and he were walking up to their local post office. It was a nice day and everyone was getting along fine.

Suddenly, for seemingly no reason, the son decided he didn't want to go the way the parents were headed. So he 'fell' down and threw a tantrum, right there on a hard sidewalk.

A brand new mother listening to this story, I was horrified, thinking of my precious, innocent baby hurting himself like that! My eyes widened as I waited to hear how he handled the situtation.

The couple didn't look back (noticably, anyway), but continued strolling in the direction they intended. Without a word, the 2-year old picked himself up and joined them, grabbing their hands!

Yeah, we've all heard that ignoring is the best thing. But there are times when you just can't. I think it's a parent's job to help them grasp that there are consequences to their behavior.

In my experience, dressing a child is a particularly stressful hurdle for moms. For one thing, we believe our children 'represent' us in their attire and behavior. Although I was a slow learner, I finally 'got it' that if my child wore pajamas one day to pre-school, the world wasn't going to end.

Schedules don't permit the best way out of having to get the shoes on the kid, though. You could build the consequences thing around negatives, and take things away. But I'd suggest building it around positives whenever possible.

(Ever hear my story of 'The Worm Runners Digest'? As an education major in biology class, I taught all my worms (in a T-maze) to turn left (or was it right?) but I used negative reinforcement (a poke with the brush of a watercolor paintbrush). And in the end, though the all learned the task I had set for them, they all died!)

At two, heap the praise on when he DOES put his shoes on. Twirl him around or take him for a special back ride. Let him feed the fish that day. Immediately, go outside and let him pick one flower from the garden. Or let him pick a special bubblebath for his bath that night. Or choose a special hand stamp (for kids) that day (keep a supply hidden--they're cheap) and let him stamp in a book you have purchased just for that reward approach (at all kids bookstores). Or let him choose a sticker in a sticker book or onto a chart you keep on the wall in his room.

Sounds like a lot of trouble for a simple thing. But I guess you have to think that you're training him for civilization. And you want him to look forward to the challenges in life with a smile.

Mine are now all grown up, but I vividly remember all the mistakes I made along the way. And all too often, when they get together with me, they reminisce aloud in front of me. But they love me all the same. Wouldn't it be nice to picture ourselves as old and grey and reading words about ourselves like those Teach has written, however? Yeah!!

Escapee
Member

06-15-2004

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 4:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Lisa whelchel reminds me of the movie "mommy dearest" Over the top to a very high degree.

Although, I do believe in "Spare the rod, spoil the child". We were disciplined when we needed it, never when we didn't, but not tormented, or bullied, or beaten. We all turned out normal, no drugs, not one of us ever in trouble or in jail. DD knows the word "no" and what it means. If she chooses to ignore it out of direct disobedience, we first take her away from what she is doing wrong, with a "no" and if it persists she gets a little swat, either on the hand or on the butt, never even hard enough to make her cry, but just enough to know she is in trouble. We tell her afterward that we love her and are sorry for what we had to do, but she needs to know that she cannot do that. She may not understand now, bu she will. Time out's in my opinion, don't work. They are just reenergizing time for kids. Time to plot their next move. I had a step father who used to make me stand with my nose in the corner of the room, in front of others. Humiliation is not a form of disciplining. My gramma used to threaten to beat us on a bare butt in public, she never did it, but why would you humiliate your children or grandkids. That kind of stuff stays with them long after the sting of a swat wears off. Take them aside, reprimand, and if that doesn't work, go somewhere away from others to "discipline"
I don't think sending them to their rooms, where all their fun toys works much either. How is that punishment? "Your in trouble, now go play with your toys" hmmmmm. That may work for other families, but not here.


All parents have different ways of disciplining. Some need to know the difference between discipline and direct abuse. Obviously Lisa Whelchel does not. The trick is figuring out what works for your children and your family, not what some book says or what some doctor says.

Maybe her children are out of control, but she had to know by putting this book out she was going to floor some parents. All we can do is pray for her children and hope they don't end up in therapy someday talking about what a job their mother did on them or in prison, or doing the same to their children.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 5:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have to say that time outs DO work. At least for us and they weren't effective til my ds was three or older...They will not work so well on a kid younger than that.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 8:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have to say that I was tempted to try the hot sauce method due to this thread! I know time out worked with my 2 boys when they were in elementary school, I know it has zero impact on dd, and yes I've also deducted from her piggy bank. BUT I still have this horrible time when I tell her "no". And her screaming lasts for 45 min + ... today was DS 19 wanted her to turn down the computer, I could see the two of them they were 8 steps away from me, and I was hollering "I'm here, its my fault, let me deal with it" (actually it was Big Brother's fault somebody posted a clip of whispering and I had to turn up the sound, and forgot I did!)Too late, ds turned off the sound, and dd put her mouth on ds arm, he grinned (he won right?!) I told her time out off computer, she saw me coming, she heard me but and I told ds the same for him, he couldnt use the computer. Well she did spin out of control screaming, and after 15 min, I told her she couldnt go outside, I set a timer, then I thought outloud, that "hot saucing is sounding like a good idea, your mouth is getting you in trouble, you need to stop" She did, she ran... no I felt guilty thinking aloud so no I did not, I understand bullying, etc...

but each child is different.

each consequence must fit... and dd hates that expression

Deesandy
Member

08-12-2003

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 8:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I would rather chop my hand off than to hit my child.

Okay, not really, but we do not solve problems with violence in our house. It is like saying, "I love you, I want you to believe that I will protect you and keep you safe, here let me physically harm you to get my point across."

Please read 1-2-3 STOP, you can find it in the family section of any bookstore.

Hang in there sweetie!

Kimmo
Member

05-02-2003

Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 11:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
What a lot of great advice!

Lisa, I agree the main thing is to keep repeating the rules. One good way for me was to say it's "this" time; he can't change what time it is. If he throws a tantrum or objects vehemently, say something sympathetic, but end with, "But it's time for [this] now."

But, if he just won't listen, I say, "It's time to put clothes on. If you don't come and help get dressed by the time I count to 5, I will pick you up and dress you on the changing table." Or, for bed, "It's bedtime now. Do you want to walk to the crib, or do you want me to carry you? I am going to count to 5, if you don't walk over, I will pick you up," etc.

The few times counting did not work for getting dressed, I would put clothes in a bag for school and ask, "Do you want to get dressed at home, or at school?"

Of course, as Herckle said, piling on the praise or thanks whenever possible-- If he didn't get dressed but we somehow got the jammies off I'd thank him for getting them off! :-)

Oh-- One for the bath is, I just say "Oh, it's bathtime, I'm going to fill the tub now." Rowan yells no, then I say, "Oh, do you want to put your toys in first?" Then he runs in. That has also worked for getting to the dinner table or walking into school ("Oh, do you want to go in first?").

For shoes, we actually let Rowan go outside (just from the porch to the car) without them on so he knows that the shoes are to keep his feet from getting dirty or hurt. Then after that we could say, "Remember when you went outside without shoes on? That hurt," etc.

I just read "Love and Anger, the Parental Dilemma" by Nancy Samalin, and have "Discipline Without Shouting or Spanking" (can't remember the authors), which are good, basic books about discipline. The first is for all ages of children, the second more for toddlers.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 6:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Also keep in mind that the timer works wonders for my dd in above situations, counting does not, so again, find what works... each child is different.

I have read the 1-2-3 Stop, and many teachers implement it in their classrooms.

Keep in mind, I believe that temper tantrums are power struggles. So during non tantrum times, its good to keep open the lines of communication, build the respect, giving them choices does give them power and some control over this huge world.

I believe my problems lie with the fact I'm raising 2 teenagers, and 2 very strong willed "alpha" personality... (hmmm wonder where they get that *innocently whistiling!)

A book that is helping me with my dd is "Raising the Gifted Child" Also William Glasser and "Choice Theory"

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 6:10 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
1-2-3-Magic is great! (Is that what you guys mean by 1-2-3 stop?) or are they 2 different books/tapes?

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 6:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
You're right Julie - its Magic, the Stop is from the use of the stop light I'll bet!!

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 6:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
hmmm, I don't remember a stop light... I do remember how he talked about (compared) a little child and ripples. That was interesting and true.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 7:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well I'm thinking of how a 1-2-3 is used in the classroom then, The teacher sets up a large poster board with three circles bottom green, middle yellow, and top red. There are clothespins with all the kids name on it, all placed on 'green', then a student can get a visual warning, "johnny put your name on yellow" and then when you 'catch' johnny being 'good' you say, "Johnny you can move your name on Green"...

Again, Glasser has lots of books on why the reward system is failing students, and our school has moved away from this type of discipline, we work on Choice Theory - "you are making a good choice, you are making a poor choice, how can i help you, what do you need? So when dd is about to lose it, I stop and communicate to her, "DD you are getting upset, this is the facts, what do you need?" Sometimes you have to LOL at their responses, "Mom I dont NEED anything I WANT it this way"