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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 11:43 am
These are all very good suggestions. I've found that redirection and distraction can help. Try to temporarily take their mind off it and then go back to it about a minute later. Often they forget what was bothering them in the first place. Doesn't always work but it has worked sometimes for me. Of course this assumes that you are not trying to win a power struggle in disciplining them - that you simply want to get them to do what you want.
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Wargod
Moderator
07-16-2001
| Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 11:48 am
I've seen 1-2-3 in a couple classrooms, though differently than what Reader is describing. Teacher counts 1 (and hold up a finger) and the kids stop. 2 (and 2 fingers) they all look at her, and 3 (3 fingers) is listen. I've seen teachers use quite a few methods to get attention but that one is one of the best. LOL, anything that settles 20 6 year olds down is great.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:14 pm
Choices are great. You can do this or this. Kids don't usually say (untill they are older) that they don't want to do either. My neice wouldn't eat, and her mother would say things like "Do you want a sandwich, well then what do you want?" And she'd say "Nothing", so I asked her "Would you like a sandwich or would you like a hot dog?" And she'd say "Sandwich." Viola. "Would you like to go to bed on your own tonight, or do you want mommy to tuck you in?" "Do you want to get dressed and then eat breakfast, or eat breakfast then get dressed?" It works for us.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:26 pm
Great advice, Escapee! We did this, but do make sure that you offer choices that you can live with. Don't say "do you want to eat now or eat later" if you really don't want them to eat later.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Friday, September 10, 2004 - 3:37 pm
I remember when my son was about two and we would go home together every night (he was in daycare). We would catch the 5:30 express bus and the next bus was at 5:50. All you working moms out there know what tight schedules you are on when you have a child in day care. My son decided to throw himself face down on the sidwalk and refused to move. It was winter. I just looked at him, crossed my arms and said I can stand here all night, so whenever you are ready because what you are doing isn't workig for me. Commuters had to walk a circle around us to avoid this little terror on the crosswalk and gave me dirty looks for letting a little child lay down on the cold sidewalk, at least that is how I perceived it. He did this every single night for two solid weeks. It was the same routine. I dont know whether it was my letting him know that it wasn't working or the fact that we missed the bus and had to stand in the cold for twenty minutes that did the trick but one Monday he just stopped and was a very happy little commuter. I guess I used time outs, I dont really know. I do recall telling him that I didnt like to be in his presence when he behaved in an unacceptable manner so when he was ready to behave civilly he should just let me know. The very worst punnishment he got was in second grade when he came home with all Cs. Everyone said he was a bright child and he just didnt make any effort. He lost video games for his entire christmas vacation, including Christmas. All those games as presents and he had to wait to play them. I know it seems cruel but let me tell you he never looked back. Straight As with little or no effort. He still gets F's in Spanish but I told him he gets a pass on languages until High School then I want Bs.
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Ddr
Member
08-19-2001
| Friday, September 10, 2004 - 6:42 pm
Escapee, I always used choices too when my son was resisting me. It always worked too! Something that worked wonders when he was being pouty was getting the camera out and take pictures. He automatically turned into a little ham and would start smiling and acting silly. Voila! Temper tantrum gone.
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Wargod
Moderator
07-16-2001
| Friday, September 10, 2004 - 9:20 pm
Maris, I don't think I'd call it cruel to restrict his video games. Taking away tv, computer and video games is the most effective form of punishment I have for the kids. I've had people ask me if it really works since the kids still get to play outside, with friends, pretty much do anything else, and the truth is it works great. They are limited on the time they're allowed to veg in front of the tv, so that time is precious to them. Temper tantrums, oh what fun. My little sis was the princess of temper tantrums until she was about 16. I learned a lot from that. When Caleb was born, I told Darren our children would never have such bad manners that they'd throw temper tantrums...riiiiiiight! When they started, I had one way of dealing with them. So long as the kid wasn't causing harm to themselves, someone else, or breaking stuff, I completely ignored them. If they threw themselves down on the floor and I had to walk by, I stepped over them. If they hurled themselves down in the middle of the store, I picked them up, put them in the buggy, and kept going. Both of them learned fairly quickly that temper tantrums weren't going to get them very far. LOL, now that sounds cruel! But, I learned from sis half the fun of temper tantrums was getting people to pay attention to you and if they were ignoring you, what fun was it. Oh and Maris, there is nothing as a parent that makes me madder than bad grades, not because they don't understand, but because they're being lazy. I'm in the same situation with Caleb. All of his test scores, all of his teachers, everything that comes out of his mouth shows us he is a bright kid. Ever so often he gets lazy though. I am happy with whatever grade they get so long as they are trying their hardest, but bad grades because they didn't feel like working or studying irritates me no end.
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Enbwife
Member
08-14-2000
| Monday, September 20, 2004 - 8:53 am
Lots of great advice here. Thanks everyone. I actually took a workshop on 1-2-3 Magic last year and liked that approach. I too find that ignoring Nate when he throws himself down on the ground works best for him. If I try to figure out what's wrong, etc. it just prolongs it. We are big believers in pouring on the praise when he behaves well, i.e. he's eating dinner at the table with us without banging his spoon or throwing his food across the room, I always tell him what a great job he's doing eating with us at the table. The thing that drives me absolutely crazy is he'll ask for something and I'll say no, or he wants another something and I'll tell him that was the last one, then he starts crying, yelling and hanging on to my hands or legs... urghhhhh.... It's like fingernails on a blackboard. It's soooo easy to just give in and give him what he wants but I know that that's the worst thing I can do so I have to suck it up and stick to my guns. We were at Walmart once and he grabbed a toy off the shelf, so I let him hold it while we were in the toy department, then when I told him we had to put it back, he freaked out (he was sitting in the cart), so I just pushed him along and acted like it wasn't happening. Everyone stared and I knew I was 100 shades of red, but I knew if I gave it to him it would just teach him that's how he gets stuff he wants. We also try to give him choices, do you want to wear this shirt or this one, do you want this color popsicle or this one? Also, letting him know ahead of time that this is the "last one" usually works well. We are totally against hitting in any form. I could never do it. I was raised that way and still have bad feelings about it. I think what we're doing is good and eventually he will get through these twos and we will all be better for it. Some days are harder than others. Especially being almost 8 months pregnant. I really had no idea raising kids could be so challenging and hard some days.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 4:50 pm
When DD throws herself down on the floor in a temper tantrum, we applaud. She stops doing it because she is angry and doesn't want to entertain us at her expense.
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Vee
Member
02-23-2004
| Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:09 am
Escapee, you've hit it right on the button. My sis was a temper tantrum queen complete with head banging. Everyone was at their wits' end. One fine day, my grandmother started to laugh...she roared...she slapped her thigh, she said, "Oh, do that again...it's so funny..." Instant cure.
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Deesandy
Member
08-12-2003
| Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:43 pm
My dd whom is only 3.5 years old, seems to be trying to get me to spank her. She has been spanked on the butt one time and it was hardly anything and she was quite upset and so was I and I told her that I would never do that again. However, she is not listening to us and really being defiant. I asked her today if she wanted me to spank her, thinking that just the thought of it would end her bad behavior and she said yes! I told her that spanking hurts and that I didn't think she really wanted that and she replied to me that spanking does not hurt her. I am in a lose/lose situation here!
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Monday, December 06, 2004 - 1:02 pm
I would ignore this spanking talk. She is probably just trying to get attention. My 8 year old responded verbally in opposite ways for years to questions such as that. She still does sometimes. Even if it wasn't a question, if I would tell her something, she would argue with me.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Monday, December 06, 2004 - 1:44 pm
I think spanking is very bad and is often a time for the parent to release their anger. I especially think you should not spank her because you specifically told her you would never do that again. I think sticking to your word is very important in disciplining. Like if you say she can't watch TV if she does not pick up her toys, then do not let her watch tv. Follow thru and stick to your word.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Monday, December 06, 2004 - 7:47 pm
I like to be spanked...oops wrong site
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Llkoolaid
Member
08-01-2001
| Monday, December 06, 2004 - 8:03 pm
ROFL, bad bad girl Pamy
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Ginger1218
Member
08-31-2001
| Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 5:30 am
LOL Pamy, I love you
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 9:19 am
Deesandy - frustrating, isn't it? Did you know that willful disobedience at that age is *normal*? It is not an attempt to get you to spank her. It is an attempt for her to figure out just how independent she is or can be from you. The good news is that expression of defiance is actually healthy, even tho it can drive ya crazy! But the worse thing you could do is negotiate the discipline in response to her disobedience. Think of it this way - she's trying to see how much control she has. If you let her decide how to discipline, you've just given her way too much control! It will make things far worse for both of you. You are not in a lose/lose situation. You are in a teaching situation. Ultimately, that's what parenting is all about, a bazillion opportunities to teach, and to learn too! The goal is to teach her that defiance and talking back aren't the way families relate to each other. So, you'll need to put together a response that both ignores her request, and reiterates yours - calmly and clearly. In the case of continued defiance, you'll need to decide in advance what the consequence will be, and warn her; and then follow through. But it's best if you've figured this out ahead of time, so you won't make threats that you're not likely to carry out - which can worsen the problem. I would strongly recommend one of the Parenting With Love and Logic books, if you're looking for help on discipline methods that are very effective, very firm and very much win/win. Good luck, I know it's not easy!
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 9:38 am
Also Magic 1-2-3 is very good. And they even have that book on tape!
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 12:28 pm
Ok, now, we got spanked when we were little, and believe me, 4 kids, under the age of 10 with a single mother, we deserved it, and we hold no animosity toward her for it. Especially now that I have children. Different things work in different hosueholds. When DD does something out of direct disobedience, she is warned, and then removed from what she is doing, and if it still goes on, then she gets a slap on the hand. No, it's nothing that is going to injure her, but it's enough to make her realize what she is doing will not be tolerated. Sometimes there is no reasoning with children because they are not mature enough to understand it. How do you reason with a two or three year old? They themselves are usually just testing their boundries, and it is a parent's responsibility to set those boundries. They will follow them for life, so therefore I also strongly agree with follow through. Warn firmly, then you must must must follow through. That's what kids understand. They can fathom action, consequence. They don't always get "let's talk about why you are acting up, let discuss what may happen, lets' talk through this." Here's what young children hear "Blah blah blah blah blah." Here's what they think, I got to do something bad, and my only consequence was a tongue lashing. Cool". So what works? Consequence: No TV, No favorite Toy, No Dessert (I disagree with withholding supper, but dessert is a treat) or, if it works in your household, a swat on the butt/hand, etc. There is a major difference and a hard line between spanking, and disciplinary abuse. Here is what I have also learned when kids are just "Asking for it", bad attention to them is better than no attention at all, and in that case ignoring the action (ignore it and they'll stop is what we were always told, guesss what, it made us do it more) is not the affective means of discipline, attention to actions and consequences is. Once again, you know your children and you know what will work in your household. Do what you deem necessary and don't let anyone convince you to spank or not to spank your children. This is just my humble opinion, please don't take any offense. PS: I'm gonna count to three, 1,2,3...smack... taught me to count!
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:22 pm
No offense taken, Escapee. I was another child who was spanked and suffered no ill-effects. We were always warned, the spanking was a limited affair (3 swats to the rear), and there were "chats" before and after the swats where my parents made sure we knew why we were in trouble and that they were unhappy w/ the actions but still loved us unconditionally. I use spanking on rare occasions w/ my DS as well. It is a last resort because Pokemon at the moment is the "best" punishment -- take it away and I've "ruined his life" for the day! **snerk** I completely agree - -there is a distinct line between discipline and abuse -- and spanking is NOT always "abuse."
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:41 pm
My thoughts exactly. We give her the before and after talk as well. ITA!
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 5:56 pm
Here's the way I see it and I am a believer in "spare the rod, spoil the child" and here's why. My aunt (You've heard me speak of her before I am sure ) was a child psychology major, no offense to child psychology majors, but what a bunch of bunk. She didn't have children untill her late 30's and boy she thought she knew everything there was to know in regards to them. How their little minds worked, how to phrase things to get the best results, how to discipline and not ruin their lives, how to reason with infants, toddlers, adolescents, and teens. She now has two children and read and followed every book on "Child Rearing" She didn't believe in "spanking". A time out and a firm, but gentle and loving reprimanding was all that was needed, she thought. She has the worst behaved children in the western hemisphere. Her boys have absolutely no social skills, no respect for authority, they have always been told that they are equal to adults and should be treated accordingly, they say and do as they please no matter where they are. They are loud, destructive, obnoxious, rude, short tempered, little heathans. At school, teachers are at a loss, because when a problem is brought to their mother, she insists the problem lies within the school system and not her little angels. They have switched schools about 4 times within the same area code. I forsee these two in the future as delinquents. A ward of the court or in a state penatentary. These two are the poster children for the "pro spanking" campaign. "Don't Let This Happen To You" sigh
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 8:18 pm
Well, I'm offended. I am also a child psychologist with a masters in clinical neuroscience as well. My child is extremely well behaved and has never been spanked. There is nothing I hate more than someone trotting out the example of someone who is a child psychologist who hasn't done a good job parenting, and therefore all child psychology is "bunk". I could do the same, of course. Point out the many folks who spank their children and how awful their children behave and therefore say "spanking is bunk" but that would of course be an overly simplistic view and many folks would be offended. So I won't do that. For the most part, I think if you expect children to test and take advantage of you, they will. We are of course responsible for setting boundaries for our children, or a better way to phrase it (in my opinion) to *teach* them what does and doesn't work in families, in relationship, in life. Which is why I am *always* against hitting. I don't think teaching kids that hitting someone to make them do what you want them to do is EVER an appropriate lesson. It may work, it may not do much harm. But I still think it always teaches that violence is an option. And I"m always against that. As I said, just my opinion from someone who spent years counseling abused kids as a child psychologist and who has a very well-mannered, never-been-spanked child. 
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Hippyt
Member
06-15-2001
| Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 9:04 pm
Hmmm,well as someone who was spanked,whipped with a fly swatter on the legs,and a Mom who is a child counselor who did the spanking,I have something to say. I think you are generalizing Escapee. Not everyone,no matter what their profession is a good mother.
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Spygirl
Moderator
04-23-2001
| Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 10:57 pm
I just wanna quietly step in and say what I've said before. Though it wasn't well received, I think it bears repeating. Bachelor's level psychology classes (which is what makes one a "psychology major") do not in any way, shape, or form prepare one in the way of effective child-rearing, good communication skills, unusual insight into human behavior, or overall better insight into much at all. Those degrees provide general information about a lot of different notions (motivation, human development, statistics, history of psychology, etc), but they are not designed to make one a clinician. Master's level work is the only area that prepares people to be specifically trained in one of those clinical arenas. Having said that, I think it useful to note that even having intellectual and philosophical understanding of those concepts and being able to help others also does not always translate into action in one's own life. It is a fact. I'm a marriage therapist and my marriage will be just as difficult to manage as anyone else's.
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