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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 6:36 am
laughter is also good medicine. Stepping away from the situation too! I was also one that was spanked, and hit with the belt, and yelled at constantly. (what kind of rotten kid was i anyway?!) I find it very difficult to break the cycle at times with my willful, intelligent child, and I love that Karuuna comes and gives insightful reminders for me!! Willful defiance and control, yep!! Because I teach, I try and compare my actions in the classroom to home - ie, I tend to have more patience outside of the home!! (and of course its a different layer of respect!) Yet, there are times when dh still reminds me to take a time out! There are lots of books out there that have helped me to understand where my dd is coming from, but when she stomps her foot, crosses her arms and demands me to do things NOW, or else... (at 8) sometimes all I can do is lol! I cant win a battle of wits, and she knows I'm "in charge", spanking wont change that behavior. Last night, I said "I give up" and went to bed (before dd) that shocked her, and dh talked to her, and the next thing I know she was coming in crying saying she loved me - so what damage have I done now?!! We hugged, and I told her I understood what she 'wanted', (decorate the tree - but dh and ds's werent home, we compromised and we put the tree 'up', decorating will wait) and understood how anxious she is for the 25th! Its always a major hurdle when we get thru a defiant moment unscathed... and they happen at least once sometimes twice a day. I believe in love, and I also know that she has needs too, she needs to be engaged in learning, if she is kept active, she is more content, its finding what she needs, and how to fulfill them that are a full time job, and sometimes, I'm just too darn tired!! I was so thrilled building the gingerbread house, it was worth every crumb/mess, Monday I stumbled on a website that gave handwriting pages - I was amazed at how eager, and determined she was - 2 hours working on handwriting!! I never know what tomorrow will bring
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 7:30 am
I really don't think spanking is a good option. Here are 2 quick stories that still make me "sick" when I think of them. They each happened about a year ago. One day I brought ds to the library play area where they have puzzles, toys, etc for the kids to play with. DS was playing nicely and a mom came along with her 2 kids ages about 18-24 mos. and about 3-4 years. She seemed like a really good mom, had a soft voice and was playing with her kids and seemed very sweet with them. The 3-4 year old was building with blocks and then the 18-24 mo, old knocked the building down. The mom told the little one to apologize to the older one (who didn't even seem to mind). The little one would not apologize. After several requests, the mom warned of a "punishment" and then left with the little one to the bathroom. Came back and the little one had obviously been crying and the mom made the request again, and still the little one said nothing, so back she goes to the bathroom. It made me sick then and still makes me sick. I should have left. Then after she came back she was talking to another mom that must have known her and they talked a bit about spanking. This friend of hers was saying how she didn't really like it and how if you adopt you have to sign something promising you'll never spank,etc... And the spanking mom said how well it worked for them and with her older two she hardly had to spank, but with this little one, well he was being more difficult to "break" Uggh. Then one day I was in line at the return counter at Kohl's. Right before Christmas and there was a mom with 3 girls (ages about 18mo., 3 and 7ish). The 3 yr. old had some type of stuffed animal and the 18 mo old was whining for it and at one point took it from the 3 yr. old (who again didn't seem to mind) well all of a sudden the mom gets out of line and takes the little one to the bathroom (which is right near where we are.) Well most of us look at each other knowing what is gonna happen. We all have a very sad look on our faces. I really am ticked off and don't exactly know what to do. So I get out of line and go in the bathroom and say loudly "Child abuse is not appreciated." She said something like "It's not child abuse." I honestly don't know what I said, but then I left and just left the store shaking. What makes me so mad is it's like the spanking os so premeditated. I think if in the last case-where the kid took the animal from her sis, and the mom maybe slapped her hand right there and then, I would still be uncomfortable, but I wouldn't feel so sick. It's just like when they go in the bathroom they are hiding something or inflicting a great deal of pain on the kid--at least a few minutes after the offense happened. With a kid so young, it's kinda like a dog--if you don't do something right there and then at the time of "the offense" then I think the kid might not even understand why he is getting the punishment. And really what does spanking teach? That hitting is a good way to motivate? A good way to get your way? Sorry but I can never agree that it is good. Effective? Maybe, but I really believe with a little more effort (I also think spanking is a quick and easier way out) you can find another way to get your child to listen.
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 8:50 am
<peeping in and peeping out as one who believes in a good butt whoppin>
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Lumbele
Member
07-12-2002
| Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 10:59 am
Child rearing theories are generally well thought out and good advice. Unfortunately they are not always practical in RL or with all children. That being said, as one who has been spanked often and who has spanked occasionally, neither ever left me feeling good. In both cases they resulted only out of the frustration of the moment. To my great relief my little "angel" didn't require a lot of discipline, and after a couple of parenting courses offered by his elementary school, we adopted the "natural consequences" style of punishment. Barbara Colorosso (sp?) also taught us a very effective mantra : "If it isn't life-threatening, morally wrong or unhealthy...." let kids make their own mistake and learn the consequences. My tongue has the bite marks to prove it, but I now have an adult son who accepts the consequences of his actions and has learned from them. Just my FWIW
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:48 pm
AHHHH......no no no.....her idea and execution of "child psychology" is bunk. It was her major in college and she finished, but never pursued. She felt she knew all she needed to know, and a master degree or credential was unnecessary. Let me get my foot out of my mouth long enough to apologize.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 4:44 pm
Sorry, Escapee, if you didn't mean it the way I took it. I reread it several times, and it did sound like you were saying that child psychology was bunk period with your claim of no offense to child psych majors. But I sure can understand misunderstandings here - I've created more than a few of them myself. And by the way, shepherds never used their rods to smack their sheep either. Sheep are relatively flighty, panicky animals and if you smack one with a rod, you not only panic that one sheep making it more likely to flee, you agitate them all and end up with an unruly and uncontrollable messy mass. However, if you use that rod (or staff) to prod or guide them back in the right direction, they cooperate very well. Funny how those old sayings get twisted into new meanings. I think the old real meaning has more value. I'm just sayin'. 
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Friday, December 10, 2004 - 9:47 am
Sometimes what I think in my head, doesn't come out of my mouth. I understand what I said, that doesn't mean everyone else does. Here's an example Her eldest son, when he was about eight years old, they were coming to visit for Christmas, and I had been ill, but was getting over it. I had also hurt my neck and was unable to turn my head. Very sore. When they arrived the first thing her son did was run up to me, jump, grab me around my neck and hang there. I about died. I let out this horrible shriek, not only did it hurt, it suprised me. We both went tumbling to the ground. I was in tears. My aunt came running over, and i thought she would have said something to her son about not jumping on people, or please apologize to your cousin, etc. Instead she said to me, "what's the matter with you, are you still sick?" In a very snotty voice, mind you. I replied to her "I am getting better, but my neck hurts, and he shouldn't just jump on people. That's not the way to greet someone." She said "Oh you wouldn't have been happy no matter what he did." It's important that he be allowed to express his greeting in his own special way. He needs that for good social skills." Here I am, in tears, and here is her son with a smart little smile on his face. She said, " you shouldn't have fallen down, he's just a little boy." and then expected me to apologize. Oh, by the way, he is not a little boy, he is a fairly tall kid, not a petite one. This is the same kid who gets in strangers faces, I mean right in their faces, and says Hi, My name is...." and people look at his mother and shake their heads. She thinks it's being friendly....what it is is being obnoxious and ill mannered.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Friday, December 10, 2004 - 11:20 am
I know what you mean, Escapee, I often think I'm being very clear but it seems to come out differently to others. That's just the nature of communication. As for the example above, I agree with you that it does sound like this child isn't being taught ordinary social skills, and that's unfortunate. But it sounds like your aunt can't teach what she doesn't know. 
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Deesandy
Member
08-12-2003
| Friday, December 10, 2004 - 11:22 am
Julieboo, I almost got into a physical fight with a woman who slapped her son across the face for touching something in WalMart. I confronted her and words were exchanged and it was quite heated. This is why I am so upset at even the idea of spanking my own child...
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Friday, December 10, 2004 - 1:47 pm
Oh karuuna, my thoughts exactly.... This is such a touchy subject and I strongly believe (and I am sure others do too) that spanking is a last resort, after a warning, redirection/distraction/ and then when all else fails, a spank is often necessary, but on the bottom or a slap on the hand should be sufficient. If I ever saw someone slap their child across the face, I would be tempted to give them the same treatment. Some people have no scruples at all.
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Danas15146
Member
03-31-2004
| Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:39 pm
My dd is the most stuborn 4 yr old on the planet (maybe I am a little prejudiced), but what I have been doing lately that really works is having races with her. Works from everything to picking up toys to using the potty before bed and has lowered my blood pressure. Much easier to do see if you can finish going potty by the time I get done switching laundry than debating for 20 minutes on why she needs to use the potty before bed.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:42 pm
That's a good solution. I'll try that when DD gets a bit older.
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Danas15146
Member
03-31-2004
| Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:44 pm
Of course - I NEVER win the "race"! She's just faster than me.
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