Author |
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Tobor7
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 8:57 am
I want to send out a supportive thought to those who feel they are not qualified to judge those in the house. I feel for you when you say, "Who am I to judge?" I would like to tell you that you ARE qualified to judge. In fact, you are equally qualified to sit on a jury in a courtroom. You know far more about the houseguests than you would if you were on a jury deciding the fate of an accused. Not only are you judging the facts, you are judging the character of the person. You would never think to say in the deliberation room, "Who am I to judge?" And this my friends, is the deliberation room. We deliberate every day, we take into account all we can and we make our calls. If you are a member of the human race, you are qualified to judge. You have all your life experience, your education and your sense of self and God. Even if you "walked a mile in their shoes" the mile you walk would be far different than the mile they walk. It would not qualify you any more, in fact... it might even hinder the judgment because you would be comparing their "walk" to your own personal experience. You would be judging on the DIFFERENCE between the two and it would not be YOUR judgment on THEIR experience and their reaction to it. Think about how many times a day you make a judgment. Far more than you imagine. You judge if the driver of the car in front of you is drunk and you take action. You observe his weaving, his bumper stickers, how many times he hits the brakes, the age and condition of his car. Does it have any dents?? All the factors you observe allow you to judge the situation and the other driver. You judge it. I assume you vote in the elections. Just let me say that you know more about these houseguests than you do about the person you may or may not vote for. Yet you will still make the judgment. You will judge each and every one of them based on WHO YOU ARE not who they are. You will judge them. Who are you to judge? My friend, you are a judge. You judge everything, everyday, in every way. You are no less qualified than anyone else. So sally forth and feel good about your judgments. You are a qualified judge of the human race. You are a qualified judge of all that you experience. Even those who say, "Who am I to judge" usually go into their judgment in the very next sentence. And if someone questions your right to judge, feel free to use this post as your own. I will not judge you for it.
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Bearware
Member
07-12-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:02 am
I am a judge, but I must be VERY careful about how I say what I judge, or I will be a modded judge! And THAT's why you don't hear as much from me - I can't seem to get that line right. But I agree, we do judge - all the time, or there wouldn't be any choices made in the world. Thanks for saying it!
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Earthmother
Member
07-14-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:18 am
I think most of us tend to not want to judge people but judge their actions. Unfortunately someone's actions many times lead to judgements being made about them as people. It's a fine line when making those judgements in a game that's premis is to lie, and backstab. The other side of that is actions are subjective. What one person deems bad behavior others may find totally acceptable behavior in the game, but not in real life. Some deem the hg bad or good people based on their behavior. There isn't one hg who has not shown "good behavior", but are they good people??? Are those who behave badly or say bad things, bad people? I just believe that a good person can say or do bad things and vice versa. To judge anyone on a personal level based on game play isn't fair, but on the other hand, separation of action is difficult. These kinds of issues are what makes the human being so complex.
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Tobor7
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:29 am
In response to Earthmother's point: A man is on the witness stand telling his side of the story. If you believe him he is innocent. If you do not believe him he is then guilty. Is he ACTING and lying to save his skin? Is he telling the truth? If he is a good liar on the stand and he fools you, then do you think he doesn't act that way in real life. Ah ha! Real life. Isn't the man on the stand still in the "real life?" Why wouldn't it be? It is real and it is happening in the life of the man. I don't make a distinction between it being a game as an excuse for behavior. It is all real. The money they are playing for is real. They don't invent a personality to use and discard later. They are real. We are real. The money is real. It is REAL LIFE.
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Tobor7
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:31 am
Bear- I'm not encouraging it per se. I'm supporting those who do not FEEL qualified.
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Loppes
Member
07-12-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 10:06 am
Tober great post ITA. Seems the following falls in line. Judgement in a non-legal context as described by wiki: In non-legal contexts, a judgment is a balanced weighing up of evidence preparatory to making a decision. A formal process of evaluation applies. A judgment may be expressed as a statement, e.g. S1: 'A is B' and is usually the outcome of an evaluation of alternatives. The formal process of evaluation can sometimes be described as a set of conditions and criteria that must be satisfied in order for a judgment to be made. What follows is a suggestive list of some conditions that are commonly required: there must be corroborating evidence for S1, there must be no true contradicting statements, if there are contradicting statements, these must be outweighed by the corroborating evidence for S1, or contradicting statements must themselves have no corroborating evidence S1 must also corroborate and be corroborated by the system of statements which are accepted as true. One should be cautious in attributing, without a rigorous analysis, a rigid set of criteria to all forms of judgment. Often this results in unnecessary restrictions to judgment methodologies, excluding what may otherwise be considered legitimate judgments.
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Tobor7
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 10:14 am
Loppes- That is a complex process as described, but we, as humans are able to make that process nearly instantaneous. The more time allowed (assuming the application of a serious thought process) usually adds support or injects contradictions to the initial judgment. Judgment is immediate and is modified in real time as new data is accumulated. The KEY WORD is MODIFIED. First impressions based on subjective experience is something we cannot escape.
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Ketchuplover
Member
08-30-2000
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 10:19 am
Everyone is guilty.
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Tobor7
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 10:24 am
The assumption of innocence is just lip service. People who are accused are perceived to be guilty unless they can prove they are innocent. In this day and age, just the fact that a person stands trial means that the prosecutor has enough evidence to get it that far. Deep down people know that.
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Caprica
Member
02-10-2007
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 11:08 am
These people go into the house knowing that they will be judged by their actions and behavior. We as viewers are expected to judge them. What we as individuals believe to be bad or good is up to us. The backlash from their behavior is what the house guests have to live with be it popularity or hatred.
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Puzzled
Member
08-27-2001
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 12:28 pm
We are forming opinions based on what we see on the show. There's nothing wrong with that, since we know that we are only seeing a skewed picture of people under pressure from each other and the DR. Of course, some things we'll assume are part of a person's behaviour IRL--like spitting all over the place.
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Tobor7
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 12:48 pm
Puzzled- The "some things" part is for each of us to judge.
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Milosmom
Member
06-10-2006
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 12:48 pm
Sure I judge everything. Part of my right as a person. Safer to judge people on a TV show than yell at the idiot who cuts me off on the freeway. At least I won't get shot on a message board. Shot down maybe.
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Eddie4ever
Member
08-17-2007
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 12:56 pm
Judgement is a basic survival mechanism, instinct if you will, fight or flight... What you decide to do with it is free will, of course. To me it exsists for that reason alone, a personal thought process influenced by our own life experiences to make the right choice. Regardless of how friendly a dog looks, how eloquent a lawyer speaks, how calm a stranger on the street in the dead of night seems or how a houseguest behaves under our watchful eyes, we make a decision instantly and in some situations it can save your life. But, depending on the situation, you can afford yourself a little time to make the right decision regarding your judgement when called to do so.... be it a courtroom, bb or the people who just moved in next door ...lol From there I think we use our senses to decide how to judge, the way something/someone looks, smells etc... Do you judge the food you like or don't everytime it's served to you or do you just know you hate it and refuse to eat it. If thats the case, is it really judgment or is it just prior experience... you have to taste spinach to know you hate it, you have to smell a barn to know you don't want to be a farmer. Humans are very complex and require all the senses .... and sometimes all we have to go on is what we "think" we know about the HG's because we read or saw or heard something somewhere about someone who looked, sounded or acted like them. Philosophically, I could go on forever...lol I guess what I am trying to say is this, I really don't think we are judging the houseguests in the normal sense of the word, because we are not experiencing them on a personal level, we are just deciding whether we like them or not based on our own prior experiences with people like them...
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Tobor7
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:16 pm
Eddie- You seem to be saying that we have to experience something on a personal level to judge it. I do not think that is what qualifies something to be judged. Do you experience politicians on a personal level? Do you experience your kids' friends on a personal level? You are RIGHT that we judge based on our individual prior experience. The more experience, the more insightful the judgment. Over a lifetime you are able to DETECT patterns. Patterns you can identify and categorize. This helps you make a faster, better judgment. I see traits in the HGs that I recognize from other experiences I have had in my life. That is all I need to make a valid judgment. I am qualified to do that.
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Kreno
Member
08-21-2005
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:24 pm
Matthew 7:1 It gets you out of jury duty also.
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Bonbonlover
Member
07-13-2000
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:26 pm
Tobor...great thread!! Life is full of choices, and every step of the way we must judge which is the right path for us to take. With age comes experience. We have had to make that many more judgements and choices in life. In hindsight should we have changed some of the choices we made?? Perhaps, but at the time we had to make a judgement call as to what the right action was. If we made the wrong judgement, hopefully we learned from our mistakes and will factor that into our next judgement...
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Bonbonlover
Member
07-13-2000
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:29 pm
Kreno...I had to look that one up Matthew 7:1 Judging others "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
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Lainee
Member
07-19-2005
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:36 pm
Kreno, as I was reading the first posting here I was thinking that if I was called to jury duty I would just tell them it goes against my religious beliefs to judge people...and I scroll down to find your posting! 
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Puzzled
Member
08-27-2001
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:30 pm
Puzzled- The "some things" part is for each of us to judge. For sure!
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Bearware
Member
07-12-2002
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:58 pm
Tobor, I know, thanks!
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Eddie4ever
Member
08-17-2007
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:15 pm
Do you experience politicians on a personal level? Do you experience your kids' friends on a personal level? No, which is why I am not judging them, I am making a decision whether I like them or not, agree with them or not, trust them or not based on influence from prior knowledge. Judgement is not called upon in these situations. Clinton and Bush are good examples ... Who do I trust with the country, but, would never trust as a faithful husband...and who is "probably" a faithful husband but wouldn't trust with the country... how can I judge that? I can't, not without meeting them, I just try to make the best decision I can based on the info and the situation at hand. Same with my kids friends, are you asking me if I trust them or if I judge them? Who they are allowed to hang around with is a decision based on my own childhood experiences coupled with adult ones also, and being familiar with the cliques...how they dress, how they talk, are drugs/alcohol/weapons involved...well, from personal experience, I know the dangers of the later, but would I judge that child to be a drug addict, alcoholic or murderer, no, I just would not trust them. Nor would I judge the nicely dressed, well mannered ones to be okay to hang around with, (friends or politicians). You can't judge a book by it's cover so to speak... you have to experience whats on the inside to judge. 
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Kearie
Member
07-21-2005
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:23 pm
I think we all learn to make personal decisions that effect our lives and the lives of those we know. I think there is a big difference between those kinds of judgements ... and making character judgements about people. Why do we make character judgements about others? ---to seem better than them? ---to compare them to...? ---to look down on? ---for political reason? ---to trust, love or form a bond with? I want to know why we feel we have to make character judgements about people that don't effect our lives? Do people really make good/evil judgement calls about people?
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:34 pm
this thread is similar to the discussion I thought I had started quite a while back. People werent interested in looking at it from all directions then, I'm glad that some are now. And this my friends, is the deliberation room. We deliberate every day, we take into account all we can and we make our calls. and therein lays the problem as per judging BB, we can only take into account what we've seen ourselves realtime feeds. the tv show is highly edited, anyone who is taking that as gospel truth cant judge. yes there are paraphrased Live Feed transcripts, yes you can go back and read what kind of things people are saying in Discussion while an event occurred, but those are all coloured by the biases of the person typing. it is not intentional, it is human nature. When we paraphrase we are giving what we 'recall' of the conversation. I've read paraphrzd Live Feeds and right away thought "it didnt happen like that. They've missed dialogue that changes everything" Every year there are fans who steadfastly rally behind a HG that they feel are getting a bad rap. If we were truly a jury, we should be weighing each and every interaction. No one on a jury could get away with refusing to acknowledge whole chunks of the evidence. to add to Eddie's post, we also are raised to judge based on our family's beliefs especially your parents. If a person is used to lots of loud voices and yelling, it is normal and you wouldnt consider it as being neccessarily a negative trait. if a person if from a quiet studious type of house, the loud voices and yelling in the house immediately causes a personal reaction. ((i havent had my caffeine yet so I'm sure that this post isnt as clear as it should be))}
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Eddie4ever
Member
08-17-2007
| Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:51 pm
Yes indeed Sun, I believe how we are raised, what we are exposed to from family members, how they react to someone/situation lends alot to our character judgement of others that Kearie brings up in her post.
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