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Archive through September 05, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Big Brother 8 ARCHIVES: Big Brother 8 - Part 9: Judges Are We All.: Archive through September 05, 2007 users admin

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Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 10:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
pejorative i think you needed to give the dictionary def for this too

since I see we are on yet another slant I'll jump in.


I would disagree with the idea that all of us are qualified to judge anything that we see fit.

because of education and experience.

your example of a dog show is neutral, if we made the example whether a person could judge a 'dick and dani' interaction we should all agree that a person's personal knowledge should be considered.

their opinion and resulting judgement should be taken as worth something. not dismissed.

and I find it super surprising the Moderators are having fun in this thread. Especially in light of the job and the JUdgements that you guys do every day.

for me, the difference between Opinion, theory, fact and educated guess is clear.

the proper use of words can tell the reader what a person is thinking and which category it is in. theory, observed fact, judgement, opinion

When I read that example of the Boy looking at the cow, the first thing i thought is that he is uneducated. Someone educated would know cows come in many colours patterns.

we all have our different slants.

And when i gave BB examples I guess they werent judged worthy

Tobor7
Member

07-19-2002

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 8:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tobor7 a private message Print Post    
VERY good catch on the "boy looking at the cow" story.

By virtue of the story itself, you can make a judgment on the boy himself. You may or may not be right, but your judgment was founded on a valid thought process. What other excuse could there be for him thinking that? The fact that he is a city boy is a smoke screen.

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
Heh, heh..I got stuck on the 'lonely' part of the boy/cow story and had to go back and read it again. I'm way too literal. I kept trying to imagine just ONE cow in those pastures.

I love reading everyone's posts in this thread. Judging is a way of life on BB and real life. I'm constantly telling my granddaughter how she acts, speaks and looks (cleanliness) is how she will be judged by others. It's called first impressions. At this late stage in the game, I feel we ALL have enough info on the houseguests to judge them, be it good or bad. Some of the things they say in this closed environment truly show who they really are.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Judge them --- or judge their behavior?

Is there a difference?

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
I don't know, Kearie. Isn't one's behavior them?

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 10:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Let me try to explain why I feel "SHOVED" is biased.

I see SHOVE as a word that shows a bit of violent intention behind it. (Perhaps very aggressive)

I see PUSH as a more gentle movement, with intent. (Like to move someone out of your way, a one handed directional movement.)

Then you have BUMP. Which is see as unintentional.

I would push a cup of coffee away from me. But I wouldn't shove a cup of coffee away from me.


Both words mean similar things, but the intent behind the word choice is different. This is why I say SHOVED is a biased word. Different people viewing the same scene will often label things differently. Therefore, it's an opinion.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 10:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
I don't think so.

"Hate the sin, not the sinner"

I do not believe I have any right to judge the moral character of another person because I CAN'T know their heart. Only God does.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 10:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
interesting perspective kearie. Guess it would surprise you to know at family dinners we will say things like "hey, could you shove that over here>?"

it is just a word, however, it is a great example of how when a person like myself posts, it is inferred we have already made a judgement.

by the use of a word.

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 10:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
I thought we were talking about 'judging' in general..not their moral character. Big Brother is a show all about people putting themselves out there and being judged by the viewers. To me, 'hate the sin, not the sinner' is nowhere near the same as judging someone's behavior/personality.

I perceive 'hate the sin, not the sinner' as relating to people on drugs, etc....not people on a TV Show who are there to win money and further their careers by tv exposure. I feel qualified to judge their actions/behavior, which is them.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 10:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
At dinner we say, "Could you please pass the____."

Sometimes my brother acts like a smartass, and acts like he's going to pass it like a football" LOL

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 10:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Word choice does show bias and PERSONAL judgement. It's unavoidable.

I don't think any of Dick's nasty habits make him a "bad" person. Just as I don't think Eric's nasty behaviors make him bad or evil.

Rather than judging them as being ____, I'd rather form an opinion. I like or dislike them based on certain behaviors.

Semantics.

Eddie4ever
Member

08-17-2007

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eddie4ever a private message Print Post    
I am waiting to come here one morning and find a post from Kant. lol...


I personally never read much into modern philosophers myself, but this is interesting none the less and actually addresses Crickets post regarding the different labels/rules applied to judgement...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_Judgement

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
I remember studying all that. LOL
I don't wanna study it no more. Can I leave the thread? Are you done having fun with my feeble brain Tubor?

Messalina
Member

06-19-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 11:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Messalina a private message Print Post    
Since I'm not divine, my judgement of people is not going to send them up there or down there . I think I have a right to pass judgement on them in this world, however.

"Hate the sin but not the sinner"? It all depends on what your definition of sin is. My next door neighbor believes that smoking is a sin. He might hate my sin of smoking but he doesn't hate me. I, on the other hand, hate John Evander Couey with a passion, both the sin and the man. My judgement of Couey doesn't mean I've sent him up there or down there. It just means I have a right to hate him while he's still here on this earth. And that's that.

Tobor7
Member

07-19-2002

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 1:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tobor7 a private message Print Post    
As an example of some of the things we have been talking about in this thread, play along with this one... I will change the specifics as we go on.


This story can be coined as the "ROADSIDE" story.

Assume these facts:

It is daytime. Sunny.
It is Saturday. You are not working. You are on the way home and have nothing planned for the rest of the day.
You are in your car and you are driving on a 4-lane road with a wide, ample, hard shoulder on either side.
Traffic is sparse.
You see a nice domestic car on the shoulder with a flat tire. The trunk is open. 2 girls, who look to be about 18 are waving you down. They are dressed in what appears to be the local high school gym outfit colors.
You can hear them yelling, "We need a jack."


DO YOU STOP TO HELP THEM?

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 1:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Yes, absolutely.

(I think that is mostly because growing up in MT, a sparse road could mean several hours and into the night.)

Messalina
Member

06-19-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 1:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Messalina a private message Print Post    
Yes, I would stop to help them. I've done things like this several times.

Once, my husband (at my insistance) stopped to change a flat tire for a woman on a very rural road where traffic was very light.

I gave a man a lift to his house one night when I got off work and he approached me in the parking lot because his battery was dead. I didn't have jumper cables and neither did he. When he told me he lived a few blocks away I offered to take him home.

There have been other times too. More than I have time to tell about now. (I'm pretty old, LOL.)

BTW, even though people have offered me money for the help I've given them, I've never accepted it. I always tell them to "pass it on" and be of help to someone else in the same situation.

Okay, so someday they'll probably find my body in a bayou but since it hasn't happened so far maybe being helpful isn't such a bad thing. And it always makes me feel good too so there could be an element of selfishness in all this.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 1:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Yes I would probably stop.

Eddie4ever
Member

08-17-2007

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eddie4ever a private message Print Post    
Yes...

I will change the specifics as we go on.

I may also... lol

Tobor7
Member

07-19-2002

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tobor7 a private message Print Post    
For those who wouldn't stop, there is nothing I can do with the story to change your mind. You would move on to the next scenario.

For those who WOULD STOP...


Let's change a few facts for the scene.

1) It is not daytime, it is night.
2) There is no other traffic, you and the car on the side of the road are the only 2 in sight.
3) It is not a nice car but an old dirty broken down pickup truck.
4) There aren't 2 young girls in trouble. It is one guy that looks very similar to Dick.


WOULD YOU STOP NOW?

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
First scenario. No I would not stop to help them. I would however call 911 on my cell phone for them. 2nd scenario, same answer.

Kearie
Member

07-21-2005

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kearie a private message Print Post    
Um, Tubor...didn't you change ALL the facts, rather than a few?

Watcher65
Member

08-22-2007

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Watcher65 a private message Print Post    
Agree Mocha, I would call 911 on my cell to let someone know in both situations. At one time my answer would have been very different, but things are different than what they used to be. Atleast that is what I believe.

Tobor7
Member

07-19-2002

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tobor7 a private message Print Post    
Good answer with the phone call.

What would you say in this phone call in both situations?

Eddie4ever
Member

08-17-2007

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 2:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Eddie4ever a private message Print Post    
Yes...