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Archive through July 30, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Big Brother 8 ARCHIVES: Big Brother 8 - Part 5: Dick's Dislike (Hatred?) for Women: ARCHIVE: Archive through July 30, 2007 users admin

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What555456
Member

06-14-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 5:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send What555456 a private message Print Post    
SanFran,

No offense taken. I just could not come up with a better term (and I thought about it) for this particular forum and the myriad of posters we have from different backgrounds and different understandings.

At the same time, I do not take offense when people say I live a "California lifestyle" or an American lifestyle." I sometimes think we homosexuals get a little too sensitive about some terminologies. Yet, I understand that sensitivity because I know what has happened and contnues to happen to so many of our brothers and sisters when we are defined as if we are all the same.

Having said that, I think the term expressed what I meant and that is what I was after.

My main point, though, remains what it was. I have little respect for men who father children, then abandon their responsibility so they can go live an inherently selfish life, and then come back when the children are adults and think they have some sort of entitlement to their children and/or whine about the divide they have created between them and their children, seeking and expecting sympathy and understanding for their pain.

Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 6:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Earthmother a private message Print Post    
Gay lifestyle to me equates choice. That is what is so annoying it's not a choice. When referring to myself do I say "straight lifestyle" which would to me mean gay or bi living in a straight community..That label is a way for those who don't get it to excuse the fact that they don't get it. A lifestyle is something you choose, to be gay is how you are born, like gender, hair color, eye color, body structure..believe me if we could make choices I would have changed a lot of things in my genetic makeup.

Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 7:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Earthmother a private message Print Post    
Back on topic: Amber stepped into quicksand IMO on the show last night by not being prepared to step up to Dick. She knew he would question her because she already knew his stance on the subject, but she did it anyway. That's the diffence between her and Jen. Jen would not go head to head with him on any subject if she didn't have any substance to back up her claim. I do not agree that "I don't know, love is love" is an answer to a bold statement like "I love my dog and my kid the same." I think she did this on purpose to show everyone in the house that Dick bullies her, when in fact she is goating him to question her statements.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:10 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Off topic:

quote:

Gay lifestyle is a broad term. Everyone knows that. no one is pigeon holeing

homosexual lifestyle/ heterosexual lifestyle/ celibate lifestyle
there is no negative connotation to any of those terms


It is not a broad term, and no, I do not "know" that. No one ever says "Oh, are you living a heterosexual lifestyle?" Everyone who is gay just lives. As do those who are straight.

On topic: I totally agree, EM. She absolutely opened the door, and dick just walked right on in. I think Amber excels at playing the victim. She couldn't even articulate what love is; at one point saying love is love, and then later saying there was different love (for daughter and dog). Amber absolutely goaded Dick, and then sat back and played the "woe is me, Dick is a bully" card. Dick is not a bully, Amber. If you could answer the questions he asked, he wouldn't have been asking the same question over and over again, albeit in different words.

I actually feel sorry for Dick. He tries to get deeper into why someone says something, and they can't or won't respond. Amber was 100% inarticulate ("love is love"? WTH?) and then just laid down and let Dick walk all over her.

Tera
Member

08-10-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tera a private message Print Post    
I saw Amber trying to stand up for herself. But Dick knew he touched a nerve and he continued to push it. Amber is not a strong woman. I think she did the best she could. It is hard to win an argument against an irritating Dick. I did notice that none of her friends said a word during this whole stupid argument.

On a personal note. As a grown married woman that was never blessed with children, I do believe that you can fall just as deeply in love with an animal.

Lucas
Member

07-01-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lucas a private message Print Post    
People keep defending Dick's actions by talking about his emotions. They are two different things.
I can understand why in each case he has an outburst why he is frustrated, angry or upset. In each case I usually side with him on why he is bothered.
What I cannot understand is people defending his bullying behavior, particulary with the women in the house. Yes he had a right to be pissed at Kail, she scemed to get him out. (How dare she on BB) Of course he should be bugged at Jen, she put him up. Amber drives them all crazy, but for the life of me I find it disturbing people excuse his actual bullying behavior, even if you like him.
I am not a fan of the word abuse thrown around, especially in a show like BB. I agree you sign up for it, and being called out is part of what can happen.
That being said, as a health care professional, Dick's behavior can without a doubt be called verbal abuse. This is futher complicated by the fact that his behavior is often being done in front of his child, even though Dani is 20 years old. The messages she is getting are crystal clear. Side with your father, or risk his wrath. Not a great parenting message to be putting out there.

Kail, Amber and Jen have each been disliked on the boards in general, although Jen is growing on many people. I do believe that if Dick was lashing out the way he is on Jessica for example the outrage of a few would be much bigger than it is.

The praise that Dick gets for calling them out in public also baffles me. It is not that black and white. His calling out is clearly to belittle and beat down. He has stated that in pretty clear terms, in particular about Kail, who he takes responsiblity for making a mess. This is why it is verbal abuse. He clearly talks about others behind their backs about game, gross sexual comments ect. He is not an open book, he only calls them out when he feels they are getting to out of hand, gaining some control, or dare to go against him or his wishes.

He is very carefully not calling out most of the men, nor the women in his aliance, although this is changing with Amber.

Again, I understand his emotions, but why oh why are some defending his actions. If a parent hits a child, you do not respond with 'They were frustrated'. You say, it is not ok. Dick's treatment of Kail and Jen is not ok. If his goal and behavior was as black and white of calling them out to their faces, and not behind their backs he could do that without the anger, the insults and belittling behavior.

Kmjm
Member

05-19-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kmjm a private message Print Post    
Great discussion, What and Sanfran. Thanks for your candour, What. I admire your choice (whether or not it is prefaced by "lifestyle", lol) in taking the path that was harder for you but best for your sons. I have to think that at this point in your life you are a much happier man than you would have been if you had only thought of yourself. Dick is one very miserable guy, and he is indeed reaping what he sowed. He has nothing to show for all those years of self-indulgence.

I also totally endorse your view of what it is to be a man. There are lots of men out there like you, gay and straight, that define what it is to be a man by living up to their responsibilities. They don't need to prove their manhood by bragging about sexual conquests or belittling others like Dick does.

Bubba
Member

07-29-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bubba a private message Print Post    
I hope Dick doesn't make it to the final two, mainly because I am looking forward to how he will react when he is evicted, and how his interview with Julie will go.

Cowgirlstraitup
Member

07-07-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cowgirlstraitup a private message Print Post    
Okay,I didn't get a chance to read this whole thread but I see a re-curring theme, you think it was wrong for Dick to get in Amber's face about the dog thing. Well, maybe but coming from a mother what she said if freaking mind boggling!!! She said she would give her life for her dog! IF SHE DID THAT, SHE WOULDN'T BE THERE FOR HER OWN KIDS!!!!!!!!!! That's one messed up woman! You would leave your kids MOTHERLESS for your DOG! Are you kidding me, I probably would have slapped her for that comment had I been in the house, just to you know, slap some sense into the cry baby.

Wargod
Moderator

07-16-2001

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:39 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wargod a private message Print Post    
10-15 years ago, I'd have labeled any man who didn't raise his own children as nothing more than a sperm donor and a waste. I've had one conversation with my father in 29 years and every man who didn't raise their kids fell into the same category as him. Must be selfish, a drunk, someone who doesn't care about their responsibilities and would rather foist it off on someone else.

Guess I've grown up a bit since then, lol. I've seen a couple men, who for different reasons, have stepped back and let someone else raise their children and I've seen the agony and sacrafice those decisions have caused. And in those cases, it's not been selfishness, but selflessness in doing what they think is best for their kids.

I have trouble now painting all men who don't raise their own kids with the same brush. Some of them like my own father I have very strong opinions about, but not all of them are like that either. And I really don't know where Dick falls or the reasons he chose to leave his kids. If he left them cuz he was involved in drugs, well yeah it's selfish, but he also did a good thing by not exposing his kids to that.

Beocca
Member

07-17-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beocca a private message Print Post    
Ok I know you are on the subject of Amber. but this RP thing is out of control! I am descusted!

Doublethink
Member

08-23-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Doublethink a private message Print Post    
Lucas - thank you, thank you, thank you. Enough said.

Napa1526
Member

07-14-2007

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Napa1526 a private message Print Post    
Dick is playing a game! Isn't that what he is there for? Everyone in that house has done their share of bashing the others...the difference is..Dick has guts enough to tell the person to their face. Janelle was very liked and yet what about all the bashing she and Howie did to people. I liked her too...again, she was pretty straight forward. IMO this house would be the most boring BB ever if it weren't for Dick being in there. If the other HGs don't like what he says...walk away...stay away from him. Nobody is pinning them to the wall and making them listen to him. I give the man kudos for being gutsy enough to tell people like it is. And it seems to me HE is the one they go to to talk when they are upset or depressed. I've seen several conversations where different hgs came and talked to him, Including Jen, ....and they were very nice, very intimate conversations. I think underneath the rough exterior there is a gentle side to him.

Bubba
Member

07-29-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bubba a private message Print Post    
Yes they are all playing a game, I just don't care for the way he chooses to play it(Dick). That is what makes BB; the game play, and everyone has different opinions on how it should be played.

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
""Dick is playing a game!"

Is Dick playing a game when he is alone and tells the camera the sexual things he wants to do to some of the women in the house? How is that part of his "game" if no HG is around to be hear it and be manipulated by it?

That's not "game", that's just Dick showing us all who he really is and how little he respects women.

Dedonjo
Member

08-20-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dedonjo a private message Print Post    
"Lucas - thank you, thank you, thank you..."

Yes. As the daughter, ex-girlfriend, and ex-wife of men who used tactics quite similar to Dick's (and as the mother of a 20 year old daughter whose father is one of those men) I am quite familiar with people like him. I actually kind of liked him at first, but the more I watch Dick the more I am sickened by his actions. His tears and self pity mean nothing, when he makes no effort to change his behavior. Daniele probably did the best thing for herself she could by walking away. I have to give her great credit for being able to speak up for herself as much as she has. <77> His obvious intelligence only makes his behavior more appalling.
Just my opinion.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
Dick dominates the house.

I know Mike had talked about keeping a low profile because of the strong characters in the house. I think Dick's strong aggressive nature is muting the others. they really dont dare steal his spotlight.

I find it weird that Dick started picking on Amber and not one of the 'alliance' would try and stop him/ or keep her from being alone with him.

Dedonjo
Member

08-20-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dedonjo a private message Print Post    
"That's not "game", that's just Dick showing us all who he really is and how little he respects women."

And how little he respects himself...

Dedonjo
Member

08-20-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dedonjo a private message Print Post    
"I find it weird that Dick started picking on Amber and not one of the 'alliance' would try and stop him/ or keep her from being alone with him."

They don't want to draw his wrath upon themselves. When people live with abusers, they learn quickly to keep themselves out of that person's line of fire, including not defending someone else in the house who is being abused.

Jeanne
Member

07-15-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeanne a private message Print Post    
They don't "dare" steal his spotlight? Not likely. I am sure they are loving that he is keeping himself in the spotlight (uh, target). And "people who live with abusers ... learn quickly to keep themselves out of that person's line of fire?" This is too much! He's confrontational, but abusive?

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
He is VERBALLY abusive.

Jeanne
Member

07-15-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeanne a private message Print Post    
Uh, I knew WHAT you meant by abusive, I just don't agree.

Dedonjo
Member

08-20-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dedonjo a private message Print Post    
There are many resources and much more info available about verbal abuse, these, from a quick google search, may not be the best but I think if you read through the lists provided it will be easy to see the connection between his actions and many of the characteristics listed (urls provided below the pieces I cut and pasted here):

What Is Verbal Abuse?
from Rape and Abuse Crisis Center of Fargo-Moorhead,
P.O. Box 2984, Fargo, North Dakota, 58108.

Verbal abuse is a kind of battering which doesn't leave evidence such as bruises or broken bones, but it can be just as painful and healing can take much longer. Verbal abuse has not received the attention it deserves, given how harmful it can be to a person's mental health over a period of time. There is a difference between verbal abuse and conflict. In a conflict, each person wants something different, and in order to resolve the conflict, the two people in the relationship discuss their wants, needs and reasons while seeking a solution. Verbal abuse is an issue of power and control. One partner seeks power and control over the other partner and the relationship, and gains that power by controlling the communication within their relationship. It is not provoked by the abused partner, and by its very nature, undermines the feelings, beliefs, perceptions and behavior of the victim.

If you have been called idiot, dummy, •••••, or any other put-down, you have been verbally abused. Name calling is the most obvious form of verbal abuse and is not difficult to recognize, but verbal abuse takes many, more subtle forms as well:

Verbal abuse disguised as jokes -- Although teasing is a favorite pastime in family and love relationships, it can be a strong tactic of control. Even at its most innocent, teasing is designed to trigger people's shame, to cause them to blush or to feel foolish, especially when the teaser asks "What's the matter? Can't you take a joke?" Verbal abuse disguised as jokes and teasing destroys intimacy.
Withholding -- Refusing to listen to, or share of him/herself with you.
Countering -- Not allowing you to have a different opinion or point of view.
Discounting -- Treating your experiences and feelings as if they are worthless.
Blocking/Diverting -- Controlling communication by establishing what can/cannot be discussed and/or switching the topic.
Accusing and Blaming -- Accusing you of wrongdoing or blaming you for his/her words, feelings or behavior.
Judging and Criticizing -- Judging you and then expressing that judgment in a critical way to you or others.
Trivializing -- Indicating, directly or indirectly, that what you have done or said is not important.
Undermining/Sabotaging -- Not only withholding emotional support, but making comments that destroy your self confidence, or imply that you are inadequate or "not good enough."
Forgetting/Denial -- Declaring what occurred didn't occur; denying your reality.
Ordering -- Giving orders instead of asking respectfully for what he/she wants; denying the equality of the partner.
Abusive Anger -- Irritable outbursts, sneering, arguing, temper tantrums, shouting, yelling, raging, explosiveness or sarcasm directed at you or others.
Verbal abuse, as with other kinds of abuse, most often occurs in secret. This means there may not be anyone who has seen what has happened to you. You may think you have taken everything wrong, as you have probably been told, or you may truly believe there is something wrong with you. Recognizing verbal abuse for what is is, the attempt to gain power and control over you and the relationship is emotionally painful, but will allow you to recognize, understand and validate your own views and experiences.

If your partner is abusive, it is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility. Your efforts to bring reconciliation, mutual understanding and intimacy will most likely be rejected because your partner will view them as adversarial and undermining of their desire for control.

Be aware that there is nothing you can do or say to change another person. The other person must want to change for the sake of the relationship. You may ask for the changes you want in your relationship, but remember that change requires a mutual intention to communicate, understand, and to respond appropriately.

http://www.computerbob.com/abuse/what_is_verbal_abuse.php

Categories of Verbal Abuse


1. Withholding. A marriage requires intimacy and intimacy requires empathy. If one partner withholds information and feelings, then the marriage bond weakens. The abuser who refuses to listen to his partner denies her experience and leaves her isolated.
2. Countering. This is the dominant response of the verbal abuser
who sees his partner as an adversary.
He is constantly countering and correcting everything she says and does. Internally he may even be thinking, "How dare she have a different view!"
Countering is very destructive to a relationship because it prevents the partner
from knowing what her mate thinks about anything. Sometimes the verbal
abuser will cut off discussion in mid-sentence before she can finish her thought.
In many ways, he cannot even allow her to have her own thoughts.

3. A third category of verbal abuse is discounting. This is like taking a one
hundred-dollar item and reducing its price to one cent.

Discounting denies the reality and experience of the partner and is extremely destructive. It can be a most insidious form of verbal abuse because it denies and distorts the partner's actual perception of the abuse.

4. Verbal abuse disguised as jokes. Although his comments may
masquerade as humor, they cut the partner to the quick. The verbal jabs may be
delivered crassly or with great skill, but they all have the same effect of
diminishing the partner and throwing her off balance.

5. Blocking and diverting. The verbal abuser refuses
to communicate, establishes what can be discussed, or withholds information.
He can prevent any possibility of resolving conflicts by blocking and diverting.

6. Accusing and blaming is another form. A verbal abuser will accuse his partner of
some wrongdoing or some breach of the basic agreement of the relationship.
This has the effect of diverting the conversation and putting the other partner
on the defensive.

7. Judging and criticizing. The verbal abuser may judge his partner,
and then express his judgment in a critical way. If she objects, he may
tell her that he is just pointing something out to be helpful, but in reality he is expressing his lack of .
acceptance of her


These are just a few of the categories of verbal abuse. Next we will look at a number of other forms of verbal abuse.

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/verbalabuse.html

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
Excellent explanation of verbal abuse, Dedonjo.

Dedonjo
Member

08-20-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dedonjo a private message Print Post    
Thanks Sanfran - like your response to gay lifestyle comments (which was also excellent btw), this one hits a sensitive spot for me...