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Archive through August 10, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Big Brother 8 ARCHIVES: Big Brother 8 - Part 5: Big Brother Influencing the Game?: Archive through August 10, 2007 users admin

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Raenstorm
Member

07-16-2004

Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 7:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Raenstorm a private message Print Post    
I think what bothers me most is that the producers aren't willing to admit they interfere. Why can't this be an understood factor of the game and America/viewing audience be included in on it? Instead BB interferes and then they pretty much lie to everyone who watches the show by making it look like everything played out a certain way without them helping.

Wouldn't the show be just as interesting (if not more) if we actually got to see how BB truly was being BB and steering things? (ETA: Yes, the people who watch the live feeds do see this but the majority of the people watching don't watch the live feeds so they don't get it. Which mucks things up when you introduce public voting.)

Ok, I got off track. I tend to be open to BB interfering as I do think that is in the spirit of the intent of the show originally. However, I struggle with for the same reason... I am not comfortable with the idea of a Big Brother controlling everything. I don't like how it's unfair even though I know that's the point. And maybe I'd be a little less bothered by it if I knew every HG went into the house truly understanding that setup so that they'd be more likely to pick up on things like how the DR favors Eric, etc. It's why I like it when Dick thinks about his DR sessions, etc., because it shows me that he at least gets that the DR is NOT a neutral place.

Csnog
Member

07-18-2002

Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 8:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Csnog a private message Print Post    
The only aspect of the game that concerns me is the DR.

HG's come out and act different towards others or tone it down.

If BB is giving information to the HG's that they want to get deeper into the game thats going to far.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 9:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I think it would be a very interesting to see what they say to them in the DR and how easily it effects them, kind of like how Jeff calls people out during tribal council on Survivor. We all know BB is asking leading questions, why not let us have a peak into the DR? I think it could add to the social experiment angle of the show (which is what I was hoping for when BB first aired).

Spear
Member

08-06-2001

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 6:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spear a private message Print Post    
I think what bothers me most is that the producers aren't willing to admit they interfere.

I agree. They portray the show as a reasonably fair competition and it's only "Big Brother" in the sense that they're under constant surveillance. If it's supposed to be a production where the players are guided to some desired outcome, they should promote it as such -- "Who does Big Brother want evicted? And will the houseguests do it? Who does Big Brother want to win HOH? Find out tonight ..."

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 6:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
I agree Brenda, it could certainly put to rest the conspiracy theories and they no longer need to worry about the sessions being seen affecting the final vote, however I think the prevailing argument against it currently is they tell the houseguest this is their short bit of time out of the pressure cooker. Personally though in the spirit of BB they shouldn't have time outs from the pressure cooker.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 7:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
tell me BB didn't interfere and save Eric!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 7:32 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
BB didn't interfere and save Eric. There you go Julie!

BB did not save Eric. BB may have interfered and helped sway opinion with their questions in the DR but it was ultimately the HG's decision to evict Kail and save Eric.

Let's say in the last election that you really liked Kerry and didn't like Bush. A George Bush supporter could have talked to you forever about how you should vote for George Bush. It wouldn't have changed your mind.

Same thing with the DR and the HGs.

-------------------------------------------

(Although I used Bush and Kerry, it was only as an example. Please let's not get sidetracked into a political discussion as this is the BB area.)

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 7:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I don't think that is the same at all. The HGs are in a very controlled environment. Yes, they ultimately have a choice, but when the DR talks to them, it is a lot "stronger" of a push than your neighbor trying to talk you into voting for Bush...

Caprica
Member

02-10-2007

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 7:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Caprica a private message Print Post    
If the DR had pushed for an Eric eviction no one would be whining about that. Pick your favorite but please stop calling FOUL when your player did not come out on top.

Oddsygirl
Member

07-11-2006

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 8:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Oddsygirl a private message Print Post    
Since this is a game show, I wonder when the federal government is going to shut them down. There are laws about game shows that don't allow the creators, producers, directors and other show people to interfere.

Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 8:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Earthmother a private message Print Post    
I don't have a problem with how this was done. If BB did or did not sway the vote. I have a problem with Eric. If he is playing for us or not. If BB helped save him (in a round about way) you would think that they also would have told him that he is AP, not Eric's player. Last night he proved to me he had no intention of working for us. To make a point of going after the three top vote getters in the polls is without finding out what America wants is just not right. BB has made a very big mistake because those of us who have always loved this show are the ones who keep them coming back each year. I'm sure they want Dick gone for the same reasons most of you who don't like him gone. If this is there way of doing it fine, but if they continue to allow Eric to work against us then they will lose viewers. I don't like the way Eric is playing this game, therefore I don't want to help him earn any of his money unless he is working for me.

What if Dick were the AP? Would those of you who don't like him and his game work with him to win this game. I DON'T THINK SO. You know you wouldn't.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 8:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
The Bush/Kerry analogy doesn't work with me either. The difference is that in the BB house, there are not OTHER outside influences. The HGs can't go look elsewhere for validation. They have each other (each of whom will lie and cheat their way to a half million bucks), and the DR. The DR can be looked upon as a maternal/paternal or neutral party (to the HGs). So anything the HGs are told in the DR is likely not something that the HGs will dismiss easily. If they were being told to keep Eric in the DR, they will think that there is a reason that they don't see (because BB sees all, yes?).

The fact that BB so obviously worked to keep Eric in the house, so that they could keep their stupid little twist alive, is what irritates the heck out of me. Eric is not, and never has been, doing what America wants (except for the eviction vote, over which he has NO control).

And good point, EM. I don't like Eric and I am no longer going to help him win any money. I am no longer going to help him work his own personal agenda.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 8:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Overalls! Pitchforks!

Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 9:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Puzzled a private message Print Post    
One of the elements of BB is seeing how people react when cut off from the world and how their perceptions change, and how they can be influenced.

The DR is part of this influence. Some people will be swayed, and some won't. CBS has always touted this as a "social experiment." The contestants sign up for this and should know by know that "fair" is not part of the "game."

Kimsue
Member

07-08-2005

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 9:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kimsue a private message Print Post    
The whole social experiment is suppose to be about manipulation and interpersonal discourse. Why wouldn't you expect Big Brother to interfere with what is going on.
I think it's terrific! We know from seasons past that it can get pretty boring when they leave these people on their own.
I can see where a compatition could come out of this. Warn them they they will be fed bits of information from Diary room people and at the end of the week have each houseguest fill out a form and say what they thought was real and what they thought was made up. Winner gets americas choice.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 10:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I do like the suggestion that the DR is looked at as an almost paternal/maternal influence and therefore has greater power.

Then again I'm not sure about that one either. Has anyone here tried to tell their children to do something and they end up doing precisely the opposite of what you tell them?

I also like the suggestion that the HGs see the DR as an almost all seeing "god like" presence. That the DR knows better (LOL – queue the spooky music). I think that is a pretty good argument for their influence.

However, while I think the DR can influence, I don't think it is an all powerful influence. As I have mentioned before, to me the best and most obvious example of that is Kaysar being nominated and voted out. Last season I'm sure that the DR did everything they could to convince Janelle to keep Will in the game for a glorious finish. Do you think BB wanted Erica and Boogie as the final two?

The DR may persuade but the HGs are ultimately responsible for voting the way they do. The thought that people are not responsible for their own actions and shouldn't take responsibility for their own actions makes me a bit uncomfortable.

The DR can push the HGs but only if they are already so inclined.

By the way, my understanding is that BB is not considered a game show and doesn't have to conform to the same rules and regulations. After all, the HGs are being paid to be there. They are in effect, CBS employees!

And I agree with Kimsue. I like it when Big Brother messes with them.

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 10:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kep421 a private message Print Post    
Has anyone here tried to tell their children to do something and they end up doing precisely the opposite of what you tell them?

this is a very important point in this discussion.

BB may be influencing or trying to guide the HG's, but it is ultimately up to the HG to decide how they are going to play. BB doesn't force the HG's to play a certain way...well except for Eric... so even BB can't determine who will win in this game.

I think BB influence/interference is important to the entertainment value of this show...as much as I liked the first year, it was pretty boring with everyone always being polite and mature...

I too like it when BB messes with 'em.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 10:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
But when you tell your children to do something, are they then on house arrest. With no contact with the outside world? No interenet. No TV. No friends visiting? The vacuum that the HGs exist in is completely different than your home. They don't know WHO to trust. They have to think that if a producer couches a question in such a way, that maybe they (the producers) know something that they (the HGs don't). It may not make them change their minds immediately, but if they start to think about it IN THE VACUUM THAT IS THE BB HOUSE, they may make a different decision. That is obvious with what happened with Eric.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 11:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
What I find rather ironic is people are claiming that the DR is a huge outside influence in the house and affects how people play the game to the point of changing their votes presumably against their better interests and original direction. However, at the same time, people are complaining that we can't get Eric (America's Player) to do what we want him to do.

If we can't influence Eric to do what we want him to do and BB can't influence Eric to get him to do what we want him to do, then why should we assume that the DR has any greater influence over any of the other players?

Backslider
Member

08-09-2007

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 11:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Backslider a private message Print Post    
I think the people that are complaining about Big Brother influencing the game need to take a break from the show and go read 1984. You clearly don't get what Big Brother is all about.

Big Brother is all about propaganda. Big Brother tells you what to think. Big Brother tells you what to do. Big Brother sets the schedule. Big Brother makes the rules. It's time for the two minute hate.

If anything, the CBS version of Big Brother isn't vocal enough. I was in the UK last month, and on their Big Brother (which is basically on constantly), in the span of a couple weeks they had
-a fake eviction
-five new players brought into the house (though a halfway house)
-five players nominated (instead of two) and two evicted at the same time.

In their show, they know that Big Brother is in control of everything and can do what they want. "Fair" isn't a consideration to Big Brother.

IMO, if you think Big Brother's influence over the game, or manipulation of the HGs is a problem, then it seems like you don't get the concept of Big Brother. He isn't JUST watching you. He's telling you what to do, and making the truth fit the propaganda.

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 11:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
I would be interested in knowing if those who are complaining about BB's influence in the game would still be complaining if the game was going the way they wanted it to go.

Cndeariso
Member

06-28-2004

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 11:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cndeariso a private message Print Post    
i don't care if CBS is influencing the game as long as the ADMIT to it instead of having Arnold Shapiro tell us otherwise on House Calls last year.

and, i truly believe they should let the internet feed watchers see the diary room visits in full.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 11:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
That is very true Backslider. In other country's BB's (which many people here laud as the original and great concept of the game as represented by BB1 in America), Big Brother constantly interferes with the HGs and affects the outcome in numerous
ways.

BB is not "fair" and it is next to impossible for even the American BB to be fair because Big Brother's influence always affects the play.

I find it astonishing that Shapiro would claim otherwise though I'm sure what he meant is that they do not deliberately pick an outright winner. The fact that BB doesn't pick the winner is fairly obvious given that it is unlikely that BB would have wanted Boogie and Erica or Maggie and Ivette as the final two, given the relative popularity of the competing HGs.

Ddfan
Member

08-04-2007

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 12:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ddfan a private message Print Post    
This was posted on the CBS site ... I'm posting it becasue I couldn't of said it any better!



All of us who watch the live feeds know that BB convinced Amber while she was in the Diary Room to change her mind about evicting Eric. Amber stated it to more then one houseguest for all of us to hear. Funny that wasn't on any of the clips from the "live" show this evening - or was it memorex? Come clean with the viewers and compensate the other players for the CBS manipulation of the votes. If CBS intent is to determine the outcome of the game then why put the supposed players through it? Hire them as actors and present it for what it really is - because obviously it isn't a game with no outside influences as CBS advertises. While we are at it why isn't it an option for Eric to get himself nominated? How is that fair to the other players? CBS has manipulated the game and changed what the outcomes would be if the players were left to their own devices. I haven't missed an episode since season one but I can assure you if CBS doesn't make this right I will never watch again - meaning I will never buy from any sponsor of the show! CBS WE DEMAND AN EXPLANATION!


Spear
Member

08-06-2001

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 1:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spear a private message Print Post    
BB is not "fair" and it is next to impossible for even the American BB to be fair because Big Brother's influence always affects the play.

I'd consider BB to be fair if:
- all competitions and twists are predetermined
- the rules are well-defined (at least for the players)
- the producers aren't actively assisting certain players

It seems the US BB usually has trouble with that last part (eg. telling BB3 Amy she needed to win HOH).