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Archive through July 30, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Big Brother 8 ARCHIVES: Big Brother 8 - Part 5: Dick's Dislike (Hatred?) for Women: ARCHIVE: Archive through July 30, 2007 users admin

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Guinevere
Member

03-15-2001

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Guinevere a private message Print Post    

quote:

Dick is playing a game! Isn't that what he is there for? Everyone in that house has done their share of bashing the others...the difference is..Dick has guts enough to tell the person to their face.




I've heard these two rationales several times from Dick defenders before, and it confuses me. Rationale 1 goes: Dick is playing a game, and his aggressiveness/verbal abuse/bullying are all okay as they are legitimate tactics within the game. Putting aside for a second the reasonable (to me, anyway) argument that Dick's behavior has hurt his game rather than helped it, this seems to contradict rationale 2, which is that Dick is just being himself! He's just so honest! You can't possibly value kindness or tact over honesty!

<77>

there was no reason for Dick to badger her last night when she asked him to drop it. No reason except that Dick is obsessive in his need to win every argument.

Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Earthmother a private message Print Post    
<77> there was no reason for Dick to badger her last night when she asked him to drop it.

She brought it up!!! She took his off handed comment and tried to challenge him!!! She created the drama!!! I think she wanted him to pay her some attention because he's been ignoring her. This IMO was her way be THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. <77>

Guinevere
Member

03-15-2001

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Guinevere a private message Print Post    
She disagreed with him. Amber is responsible for her own behavior, but I don't understand making her responsible for Dick's. He did not have to continue after she asked him to stop.

Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Earthmother a private message Print Post    
That's fine to disagree, but she knows he is going to ask her why she feels that way..she wasn't prepared to answer him and therefore she takes the defensive and starts her victim routine. If you disagree with someone (just like her on this board) and you can't debate it without crying then perhaps lurking is best for you until you are ready. You must pick your battles in life and if this was a battle that she picked she made a choice to do something IMO just to goad him. I find her behavior to be offensive.

What555456
Member

06-14-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send What555456 a private message Print Post    
When dealing with Dick supporters, his actions are always explained away by directly or indirectly blaming the victim.

If the victim had not brought it up, been in the room, walked away, defended herself (the victim is almsopt alway one of the women in the house), told him to stop, ran to the DR room, asked others for help, etc. etc. etc. Dick would not have done it.

The problem is never Dick. He can abuse and attack all he wants. The fault always lies with the victim.


Denecee
Member

09-05-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Denecee a private message Print Post    
I cannot stand the way Amber is in the house, so I am not defending her. Dick is being a bully and I think he knows it and is using that as game strategy which is stupid. He's making himself a target big time. What he needs to do is go behind everybody's back and say all the stuff he is saying instead of to their faces. That's what Amber, Eric, Dustin, Nick and probably the rest of them too. Except Jen, I haven't heard her do that. But poor Dick, he can't keep his thoughts in his head and it shows that he thinks his opinion should be heard and heard loud. I know people like him, they aren't bad people just show themselves in a bad light. I don't want him to name call the girls but it is on him, makes himself look bad. At the same time, I don't want him gone yet because he does call people out on their game play and I love that.

Csnog
Member

07-18-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Csnog a private message Print Post    
What,

How do you compare Roddy and Dick.

They both are abusive but in different ways.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
But then, if Dick went around behind everyone's back, people would villify him for not being upfront. The man can't win no matter what. There are people who are going to absolutely hate Dick. Some of those people decided they wouldn't like him on sight (tattoos, piercings, whatever). Some people decided they liked him in spite of those things. Personally, I much prefer to see people be upfront and in-your-face than run around behind people's backs. To each his own.

Denecee
Member

09-05-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Denecee a private message Print Post    
I prefer upfront to behind the back also, but I guess most people do not want to be confronted. It's like in my neighborhood, one guy is really loud with the revving up engines and the entire neighborhood has complained to eachother about it. Well I don't mind confrontation so I went to his house and told him about it. He sort of apologized, he's being less noisy now.

Kmjm
Member

05-19-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kmjm a private message Print Post    
What you left out of your list, Costa, is that some of us don't like Dick because of his behaviour, not his appearance. His appearance is irrelevant to me, although I realize he presents himself like that in order to shock some people. I work with young people and all this stuff is nothing to me, although it's a bit silly to see it on a middle-aged man.

And I really disliked Roddy too, and for some of the same reasons. Roddy was more sophisticated, presentable and better educated but he at times acted like a bully too.

Dedonjo
Member

08-20-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dedonjo a private message Print Post    
What - nicely said.

Lying, deceit, manipulation, mind games, etc. is all part of the game, totally accepted. That's why Will was so good, he totally knew how to play with people's heads. }Dick's actions cross the line - things said about someone behind their back is ugly. It is not, however, abusive. Dick's behavior is abusive, behavior that, in my opinion, is not acceptable under any context or circumstance. He is not the only person who has behaved this way on various seasons of this show, but he may be the most pervasive or blatant. I hope he doesn't get rewarded for it.
Again:
"There is a difference between verbal abuse and conflict...... Verbal abuse is an issue of power and control. One partner seeks power and control over the other partner and the relationship, and gains that power by controlling the communication within their relationship. It is not provoked by the abused partner and by its very nature, undermines the feelings, beliefs, perceptions and behavior of the victim."

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
No, I did not leave it out of my list.

Guinevere
Member

03-15-2001

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Guinevere a private message Print Post    

quote:

But then, if Dick went around behind everyone's back, people would villify him for not being upfront. The man can't win no matter what. There are people who are going to absolutely hate Dick. Some of those people decided they wouldn't like him on sight (tattoos, piercings, whatever). Some people decided they liked him in spite of those things. Personally, I much prefer to see people be upfront and in-your-face than run around behind people's backs. To each his own.




I can only speak for myself, but Dick's tattoos, piercings, etc. have absolutely nothing to do with my disdain for him. It is his behavior I have a problem with.

I think you are setting up - is it a "false dichotomy"? (I can't keep my rhetorical devices straight sometimes) when you make it seem like Dick only has two choices: 1) castigate people to their faces for their behavior (behavior that as often as not has nothing to do with him and is none of his business) or 2) talk behind their backs. There is a third choice: 3) keep his damn mouth shut and mind his own business. When something that another HG does does effect him, bring it up and a calm and respectful manner.

I also don't think Dick is as upfront as advertised. IIRC, didn't he tell Mike after the veto ceremony that he had nothing to worry about, and then immediately go up into the HOH room and start a conversation (with Dustin maybe?) about how Mike had to go? That's what I remember from Thursday's show; maybe I'm remembering it wrong. I know that Dick told Mike he felt bad about putting him up, and I certainly don't think he was being honest there.

Dick has also fallen into the role of many a BB bully; his enemies (like Kail) are torn to bits at the first sign that they are doing anything so dishonorable as campaigning or trying to play the game. Meanwhile, Dick gives himself free rein to get up to all sorts of intrigue, dealmaking and backbiting, all the while trumpeting his belief that everything should be "out in the open".

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
I actually liked Dick fine until I saw his first (or was it the 2nd or maybe the 3rd?) demonstration of how to make a female cower. That is the point where he stops his tirades. He's reduced both Dani and Amber to tears out of frustration and defensiveness AFTER they've told him several times that they DON'T want to talk about it.

What happened to "NO" means "NO"?

As soon as his target says something he doesn't like, his next response is always "Why are YOU being like this?" or "Why are YOU treating me this way?" or "Why are YOU so mean to me?", thus turning it ALL around so that the target of his ire winds up on the defense. No matter what the initial argument was about, he turns it into an attack on the behavior of the person he's talking to.

I agree, Dick is very good at manipulation, but he has no inclination to put on the breaks even when crosses the line from strategic game manipulation to verbal abuse.

Penpoint
Member

03-27-2001

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 3:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Penpoint a private message Print Post    
Dick operates behind a person's back to manipulate someone else into doing what he wants them to do. Almost all HGs use this technique.

He also gets in a person's face when he thinks that person has a weakness and he feels he can break them down emotionally. He appears to enjoy this technique and uses it on women. I don't know if he feels that it doesn't work on men, or maybe he doesn't feel as secure in dealing with men on this level. I don't think it means he has any more respect for men than he does for women; he has a mean-spirited and cruel attitude, and he has a very sour view of other people.

Several posters have brought up Will and Roddy from past seasons as men who, like Dick, were manipulators. All three are smart and charismatic. but Will and Roddy clearly were playing a game, knew the limitations, and at their core had a respect for other people even when they were manipulating them, a trait I really don't see in Dick.


Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
You don't know whether Dick is "clearly playing a game, knew the limitations, and at [his] core had a respect for other people even when they were manipulating them." You don't know Dick outside of the "game", outside of what you have seen in the BB house.

Jen
Member

07-27-2003

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jen a private message Print Post    
And then there was the comparison to Saddam Hussein. LOL

Tresbien
Member

08-27-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tresbien a private message Print Post    
LOL no it was Osama bin Laden

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
And all Jen did was allow Jameka to remove her from the block? That was actually totally out of Jen's hands! Everyone else in the house, including Dick, would have done exactly the same thing if they were in the same situation as Jen.

Klaw73
Member

08-21-2006

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Klaw73 a private message Print Post    
Wow, I don't understand how that is considered entertainment at all. I was seriously sitting here nervous for Jen and she handled herself wonderfully.

Kmjm
Member

05-19-2002

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kmjm a private message Print Post    
After that he went off on her first about being easy, and when she said she wasn't, about being so frigid she couldn't enjoy sex. Except he said it more graphically and with numerous f's.

Neosporen
Member

08-18-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Neosporen a private message Print Post    
actually the gripe with Jen is that she purposely thrw the comp to Jameka to FORCE her to keep her word

Pinniethewooh
Member

07-14-2005

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pinniethewooh a private message Print Post    
You don't know that it IS game play or his human proclivity.

He'll conveniently claim it as game play. But I can't see respect for people under that tirade - game or not.

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
"actually the gripe with Jen is that she purposely thrw the comp to Jameka to FORCE her to keep her word"

No one can FORCE someone to use the POV. Jameka CHOSE to use for her own personal reasons. That's on Jameka, not Jen.