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Archive through August 13, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Big Brother 8 ARCHIVES: Big Brother 8 - Part 5: America's Player (ARCHIVES): Archive through August 13, 2007 users admin

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Nutsy
Member

08-14-2001

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 7:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nutsy a private message Print Post    
Maris - I don't think he has a choice to vote or not vote the way we want. He has always just gone into the DR on eviction night for show.

Lucymac
Member

07-06-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lucymac a private message Print Post    
Julie never even gives Eric the option to vote. The way the AP vote went is automatically they way his vote goes. We have never heard him say "I vote to evict...."

Biloxibelle
Member

12-21-2001

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biloxibelle a private message Print Post    
Maris your post just made me realize the point that AP got all messed up. The one thing America always wanted was a vote. Maybe is BB had left all the other stuff out (vandalism, nominations, climbing into bed and such) and only gave us the vote, the twist would have worked better. He could have earned his extra money if the person America voted for was the one to leave.

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
Biloxibelle, your post has helped me to understand why some are so resentful of AP when he doesn't complete a task or go all out to complete it. Many are looking at "America's Player" as "America's Vote" so when he doesn't follow along it feels like a betrayal rather than a player knowing what his limitations are within the game.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
Yep it is all about the vote, the other stuff my view is "whatever"

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
I agree Maris, the other stuff is silly, I was just hoping that we could show we could play a strategic game to get our player through the game regardless of who he or she was and therefore convince BB our vote would not necessarily always be a popularity contest vote.

Loppes
Member

07-12-2002

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Loppes a private message Print Post    
It made no sense to me, for the viewers to vote for Eric to evict Kail on the week, we all clearly knew that Nick was going to be evicted.

We, the viewers seem to be just as fractured with what we feel he should do, or what his role is, as the HGs inside the house.

Nutsy
Member

08-14-2001

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nutsy a private message Print Post    
It only makes no sense if your goal is to further Eric in the game. If your goal is to just have a vote in the outcome, regardless of how it affects Eric, it makes perfect sense.

Raenstorm
Member

07-16-2004

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Raenstorm a private message Print Post    
So, I see the whole "we're in an alliance with Eric" thing brought up a lot but I have to say that if Eric had really been in an alliance us he would not commit to who to vote out before finding out what we want. There's a big difference between staying neutral until you find out we want out and actively campaigning for someone before you find out who your alliance wants you to campaign against. So, if we're going to point fingers for not thinking of America's Player as an alliance, I think it was Eric who broke "our alliance" first.

The Kail/Nick was the first example but look at this week. Right after the food competition, he was going on and on about how Dick can try to get Jen on his side by giving her the slop pass all he wants but he'll be gone at the end of the week. Despite the fact that it's likely the house will vote that way no matter what, it's clear that Eric had already decided who he wants out and screw our (his alliance, as people here claim) opinion. Quite frankly, I won't be at all surprised when Eric gets stuck voting against whoever is up against Dick this week because of it. It's no different than how people react in the house when someone they are in an alliance with ignores the alliance's input to do what he/she wants.

Of course, I don't think our choices on who Eric should try to get out would ever end up sabotaging his game if he were actually working with us and coming up with ways to spin his AP stuff. He did that at first... but, as soon as it stopped being exactly what he wanted, he stopped and that's when he got into trouble.

And, while I'm here, I wanted to point out that if anyone is sabotaging Eric's game... it's Big Brother. They are the one who come up with tasks that have no purpose other than stirring up trouble and leave Eric vulnerable with some portion of the house no matter who we vote for. And it gets worse as the numbers dwindle and paranoia rises.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spunky a private message Print Post    
The mistake in AP was to have Eric play both games, America's and his. It should have been someone with no other interest but that of America's choices. To do so, BB should have told Eric "You're in the house only to do as America tells you, you will not compete for the half million, you will be earning money if you complete the tasks.
Then Eric would have been able to really do what America told him.

Nutsy
Member

08-14-2001

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nutsy a private message Print Post    
Raenstorm - very well put. I think Eric's folly is that he thinks America is in HIS alliance, when he is supposed to be in AMERICA's alliance.

Raenstorm
Member

07-16-2004

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Raenstorm a private message Print Post    
Exactly, Nutsy, and that (having a vote in the outcome) is how BB presents it when they ask America to vote. It doesn't surprise me at all that the majority of people who are voting (the viewing audience) just vote for who they want on each task.

Hobbs
Member

08-05-2002

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hobbs a private message Print Post    
Gee, I thought he was going to write each of us a check after the show for our share of the $$

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
Eric joined the LNC alliance within the house to help maintain his presence in the house, seems to me that is a reasonable act for anyone in the game. That alliance decided to put Nick up and vote Nick out. Eric was not the first to make that suggestion and he did make some attempts to get the vote changed to Kail after he got his orders from America. Since this seems to be the action that has caused the biggest uproar over Eric not doing what he is told to do can someone please explain why it would have been in the LNC's best interest to vote Kail out?

Ecoop
Member

07-07-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ecoop a private message Print Post    
I agree with those who say the voters are trying to screw up Eric's game and hence BB's twist, although I cannot figure out why. I interpreted America's Player as having someone in the house who represented me; i.e., my eyes and ears in the house, the objective being for ME to win. Appears posters here and now majority of voters are deliberatly trying to sabotage AP.

I posted a while back why I think the twist has been a bust. I couldn't find the post to copy and past, so I'll paraphrase it here.

In many cases, the voters have been TV viewers only. CBS' editing doesn't tell the whole story and the story lags by a couple of days. Early on, the editing showed a somewhat sympathetic view of Dick trying to reconnect with his daughter. When the big, bad MRA was found out and Dick went head to head with Kail, viewer sympathies were with Dick. Hence the votes to evict Kail, an emotional vote, not strategic.

As it turns out, AP is not about putting ME in the house. Eric is asked to perform mostly ridiculous tasks based upon our vote. Eric is in the house 24/7; we are not sitting on his shoulder 24/7 telling him how to react as circumstances change. Nor is BB giving Eric a chance in the DR to campaign or explain his proposed strategy so we can see the big picture as he sees it. Eric is part of our alliance and should have some say in how he plays the game when we're not there.

I'd just as soon have CBS call off the whole
AP fiasco, except for the final vote. Give him the $20,000 he's earned for tasks completed and then let him play his own game. He couldn't do any worse than we have at this point. Besides, his days are numbered, thanks to us. Just let us be one of the 7 votes for the winner.

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
Excellent post Ecoop.

Raenstorm
Member

07-16-2004

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Raenstorm a private message Print Post    
Kidsatm: It wouldn't be in the LNC's favor, you are correct. However, again, BB doesn't ask America what should Eric do based on his alliances, etc., etc. The questions is *always* who do YOU want Eric to get out?

That said, again, Eric KNOWS he is America's Player. He KNOWS he doesn't have a say in his vote and he is subject to the whim/vote of America. So, he had plenty of time to set up a reason that he'd be voting for Kail and not Nick to cover himself with the LNC. (And, if he didn't want us to think he was going against by doing that, he could have come clean in the DR that he was going to lie to them about why he was voting for Kail and that he had to do it this way to stay in good with them and keep his secure position in the game.)

This goes back to my point about how Eric's game wouldn't be sabotaged by our choices for who to nominate or evict if he played it the right way. He knows what his limitations are as America's Player, there's no reason why he couldn't work with the limitations a little better than he does.

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
Raen, you seem to have a lot more faith in Eric's ability than I do. I just want to help him get as far as can as my player and so I watch the show what I can of the feeds and vote in a way that I think will accomplish that.

Ecoop
Member

07-07-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ecoop a private message Print Post    
The voters are playing an emotional game rather than a strategic one. What was strategic about voting Kail out, who had absolutely no alliance and no game. Dick had neutered her. In addition, we knew the majority of HGs were voting to evict Nick and "we" deliberately made Eric vulnerable to exposure by being the odd man out, except for Zach. I fail to see why anyone thought keeping Nick was a good strategic move. He had Dani's and Dick's backs and Eric was correct in thinking this three person alliance (though it wasn't a stated alliance at the time) would be a huge threat. Since he couldn't get Dick or Dani out, strategically it was a good move. It may have been a little early for such a bold move, but when both Amber and Dick brought it up FIRST, he may have thought the timing was good and all the heat wouldn't come down on him. He miscalculated and got caught.

How would taking Dustin out this week be a good strategic move for Eric? There are still 4 players working against Eric's alliance. If Dustin goes this week and one of those get HOH, he/she can put up two alliance members, which would leave a voting block of two. The alliance needs to move into next week full force. It won't be long before the alliance starts eating its own. I think the ladies will band together to get the men out, if they can. And I don't have a problem with that; I like Jameka and Jessica much more than any of the other three in that alliance (UH OH, being emotional again).

Raenstorm
Member

07-16-2004

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Raenstorm a private message Print Post    
I agree with a lot that you have to say, Ecoop, except that I still don't think the majority of viewers are acutally voting to screw up Eric's game (or, at least, not at first). I think they are just doing what THEY want and not trying to play the game.

And, even if they were trying to play the game, as you say BB controls what they see so they vote with limited knowledge. I don't think it was ever truly shown how set the LNC was against Nick and thus most of the people voting wouldn't realize just how much they were screwing with Eric's game there. Especially since BB did make it seem like Eric made the decision, not the LNC as a group.

And, yes, BB's ridiculous tasks mixed in with the ability to have a say in the noms and votes is what ends up making AP a joke. But I still think Eric could have done better because he did know what he was going to be working with once he agreed to take on this role.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spunky a private message Print Post    
Ecoop,

it's Eric who's not complying with America's choices.
His mistake was to jump the gun on Nick, he should have waited for America's choice (Kail).
He knew he didn't want to do America's bidding and masterminded Nick's eviction. He should have waited. But his jealousy of Nick made him betray America.

Again, AP was an excellent idea but it had to be a neutral player, to be in the house only to do as America told him. Of course he would come into conflict when he's there to play for the big money as well. He keeps sneering at America's choices... tough beans!

Raenstorm
Member

07-16-2004

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Raenstorm a private message Print Post    
Kidsatm: Ah, but I don't have faith in his ability at all. At least, not anymore. I'm just saying that he did/does know that he's America's Player so he knows that he doesn't have a choice about who he votes out. If he commits to doing something for his alliance and they absolutely need his vote (this week may still turn out to be one such instance of this), he's going to end up screwing them if America doesn't agree with their evicition choice. He KNOWS that. If he didn't at first, he's had several evictions to figure it out. So, logic seems to suggest that if you knew you couldn't control your vote and you didn't want to feel the backlash from your "supposed" alliance in the house, you'd make sure you covered yourself some way.

As for voting in such a way that'll get him as far as you can get him, well I guess we just have different views of his role. I don't consider him a chess piece that I'm moving around and trying to get to checkmate with. I consider him my chance to have a say in the votes, etc. As such, I vote for who I'd want out of the house if I were in there and not just who will get Eric farthest.

Kidsatm
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kidsatm a private message Print Post    
If he commits to doing something for his alliance and they absolutely need his vote (this week may still turn out to be one such instance of this), he's going to end up screwing them if America doesn't agree with their evicition choice.
Exactly, that happened the week Nick was evicted However, in his defense I would suspect he thought it was more of an alliance with America than him being a puppet.

Ecoop
Member

07-07-2005

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ecoop a private message Print Post    
Definitely, Raenstorm. That's one of my major problems; BB's editing and the time lag between events in the house prevented us from getting a realistic picture of the circumstances in the house. However, we knew before the nominations that the LNC (including Dick) were planning on backdooring Nick. I think that if Eric had been given a chance through the DR to spell his strategy/rationale out to us, the result may have been differet. I think Eric also shares some responsiblity himself. He comes across as arrogant and entitled, or SPECIAL, not necessarily as a part of our team.

What I can't figure is why so many think Nick was all that. He absolutely had no strategic game, other than to hook up with a girl. It was only Dani who fell for it. However, he was a physically strong player and, because he would protect Dani, he'd also protect Dick by extension.

Eric jumped on the bandwagon with Dick when Dick said Nick had to go because he was messin' up his daughter's relationship outside the house. He was taken the opportunity while it was available. Unfortunately, he had no time before the vote to convey his rationale. I don't know if that would have made a difference anyway, because "we" the voters apparently don't want to play strategically, despite how we criticize the HGs about playing emotionally.

Raenstorm
Member

07-16-2004

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Raenstorm a private message Print Post    
I just read Spunky's response and realized I should have clarified something. In the instance of Kail vs Nick, I thought Eric made a stupid move by deciding he wanted Nick gone and campaigning against him before he knew who America wanted evicted. Whether Nick was the right person to get rid of that that point or not, he knew he had an obligation to campaign for our choice not his.