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Archive through July 27, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Big Brother 8 ARCHIVES: Big Brother 8 - Part 10: Kail's snobbery: Archive through July 27, 2007 users admin

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Penpoint
Member

03-27-2001

Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 11:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Penpoint a private message Print Post    
I guess I heard Kail differently, and I was not offended. It seemed to me that she was saying she could not tell a gay man from a straight man unless he was so obviously stereotypically gay, and that a guy wearing makeup would fit in that category for her. She was saying that she doesn't have any "gaydar" and needs a sign to identify a gay man. Obviously these were not her words, but that was how I interpreted what she was trying to convey.

Grendelsmom
Member

07-31-2005

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 1:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Grendelsmom a private message Print Post    
To me her remarks are not so much offensive as they are mind-blowing.

Btw, my family is from fairly rural WV, evangelical Baptists, and none of them is so ill-informed about gay people. Neither is anyone else I've met from small-town, conservative backgrounds. I question the idea that she is in the majority, even among people who "think like her," in her ignorance.

Kalekona
Member

06-12-2005

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:11 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kalekona a private message Print Post    
Kail has an office in Eugene and there are plenty of gay people there. Her lame excuse that her town has no gays.. What a crock.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
how very strange. I know I listed the pope who invented the term "seven deadly sins".

It think it was Gregory.

I think we can all pick n choose various verses which list various sins...however, that is not "the seven deadly sins" as people talk about them. Indeed, Biblically there are a heck of a lot more than just seven.

I thought Kail seemed okay in the edit of last nights BB show on tv.

I personally havent seen her do anything homophobic on the feeds. She seems very accepting of everyone equally. (not avoiding dustin or joe because of their sexuality)

Calimom3
Member

07-12-2007

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Calimom3 a private message Print Post    
My kids, ages 13/15 were cracking up when Kail said she didn't know ANY gay people...I bet there were a LOT of knowing grins in her home town. Then she said she NEVER would've guessed Dustin was gay?! He's one of my faves, but seeing him or hearing him; I'd have guessed! BTW... does Kail call Jameka "Tameka?" It sounds like it to me-- anyone else? Also, everytime she says she "could care less.." my son yells: "it's: you couldn't care less!"

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Not all men who wear "full makeup" are gay. Some men who do so are cross-dressers. Some wear drag to perform. And quite a few of these are hetero.

I don't know how sheltered Kail's life is or was, but I suspect it'll continue to be so even after she leaves the BB house.

I was not pleased with BB's editing last night. Except for the odd comment about makeup, it seemed to be that the producers were trying to make her more sympathetic to the TV viewer. As in, trying to get her to recover her image from her nasty remarks on the first episode. If you'll notice, most of her comments about Dustin were made in confessional.


BTW, the really sneak brat in me hopes that someone in HER town comes up to her afterwards and tells her that he/she is gay. I want her to know that gay people are everywhere, in every walk of life and in every town. Unless, of course, she only allows certain people in HER town.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 8:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
(Off topic) Fiat, I just wanted to respond briefly to your last post. I think the point is that there is no 'better or worse' sin. Any ranking of sin is tantamount to saying my sin is not as bad as yours, and inevitably leads to the thought "I am better than you", or some excusemaking "at least I didn't actually do it". Ultimately, I think the point is to repent for the 'sinful' thoughts as well as the 'sinful' actions. Our thoughts are part of who we are, after all. If we actually think the sinful thing, if it even occurs to us, then we still have work to do.

And again, that's likely out of the realm of possibility in humans, and not meant to use to beat ourselves up. Instead it is a reminder that we are indeed all the same, and a reminder to be humble and not judgmental.

I'm aware that others may have different understandings, but I think this is the best interpretation of these concepts that I've seen, and seems to make the most sense taking scripture as a whole. I do understand and respect that others may see it differently; and am just offering my own view of it. I also know that it's not an easy concept to live up to either!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 9:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
As for Kail, it's interesting to me that people *generally* fall into a couple of categories when watching these reality competitions. Those that think that anything goes in order to win, those that think that most anything goes but there is a line, and those that think you should act with integrity wherever you are.

If Kail is trying to get Dani to go against her dad, is that just playing the game? Or unconscionable? When she tries to break up any other alliance, it seems okay? Or do we see the father/daughter relationship as primary to even the game?

And yes, she has a lot to learn about gays. I'm not sure she's homophobic as much as she has just been taught, and bought into, turning a blind eye to the reality. It is painful to hear her say there are no gays where she lives; yet I had a college football coach in Boulder vociferously proclaim to me in front of his entire team that there were no gays on his team. And I watched as several fellas squirmed uncomfortably in their seats.

Perhaps she'll learn, perhaps she won't. BB is a such a unique situation, where you are trying to so hard to work the game and your relationships in the game, and that's the main focus. At the same time, since you are forced to interact with those same people 24/7, some of who they really are can truly influence you, especially when you are so far outside your normal protected sphere of influence.

Fiat
Member

10-07-2004

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 10:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Fiat a private message Print Post    
(off topic) Karuuna, I agree with your entire post. Sinful thoughts are as bad as sinful actions. In the Act of Contrition, we say "...that I have sinned through my own fault. In my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do..."

Because of our fallen nature we are prone to give in to temptations, whatever those may be, and whatever the source (whether of our own making or from the evil one). It's a constant struggle. Thankfully God is a God of mercy.

Sorry to clog the thread with off-topic posts. I'll stop now.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 10:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Thank you.

Penpoint
Member

03-27-2001

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 10:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Penpoint a private message Print Post    
"If Kail is trying to get Dani to go against her dad, is that just playing the game? Or unconscionable?"

I have to wonder if those who heard Amber talking with Daniele last night, against Dick, would look at Amber as just playing the game or if they would demonize her in the same way they are demonizing Kail.

I don't mean to be an apologist for Kail, but I just don't see her as a bad person. She has made major mistakes in playing this game and she deserves to go home for those mistakes. But many folks here are chastising her for her ignorance, pulling apart every little thing she says, and that is unfair and undeserved. I may not agree with her small-town, conservative religious upbringing and viewpoint on gays, but I have not seen her be really mean-spirited.


Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Earthmother a private message Print Post    
I don't see Kail trying to convince Dani to go against her dad wrong. The difference is the reasoning behind it. Amber is pretending to agree with Dani, she didn't instigate the talk, Dani did. The reason Kail's approach was even questionable to me was that she was trying to inject herself into Dani's life as a Mom, preying on Dani's need for a mom..The old "mom vs dad" allience. Kail isn't her mom nor does she really know the dynamics behind the family, and to inject yourself to another as "the good parent" is IMO, as someone who is not even close to being compassionate. Obviously Dani and Dick have some family issues, even if they are working together, and to use that for your own gain seems devious. She should have approached her as a friend, not a mother.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
That is the whole problem when the producers bring outside relationships into the game. I think it puts the other players at a considerable disadvantage if the Dani/Dick relationship is considered sacrosanct and unbreakable.

I didn't like what Kail did, but isn't it all part of the game? I would blame the BB producers for this situation before I would blame Kail.

Bastable
Member

07-09-2002

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bastable a private message Print Post    
I would blame the BB producers for this situation before I would blame Kail.

I'm not sure I understand this route for absolution. The producers might have created the environment that enabled it to happen, but it was Kail who chose to actually do it.

Lainee
Member

07-19-2005

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lainee a private message Print Post    
Yes, there are certain boundaries in real life that most all of us wouldn't cross...but in a game like this throwing the outside influences in like has been done, how do you play the game and NOT cross those lines? After an argument if you try to take Dick's side of it, then you are damned by Daniele and if you try to take Daniele's side you are damned by Dick. And if you stay neutral then you run the risk of the two of them mowing through everyone in the house and you lose the game.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Earthmother
Member

07-14-2002

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Earthmother a private message Print Post    
I think if Kail had any sense of how this game is played she would have been smart enough to know that she couldn't play every hg the same way. Throwing a hammer into the works doesn't mean a thing if you have the ability to 1.stop 2.think and 3. act. Kail doesn't know how to do that. I would expect a mother, especially, to know that you can't communicate with even your own children in the same way. Some kids even though you have raised them all the same, have to be approached differently. She doesn't have the skills to assess her opponents.

Stacey718995
Member

07-06-2007

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:42 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stacey718995 a private message Print Post    
It is definitely something that everyone sees differently.

I can see talking to Daniele about the possibility of voting her father out, feeling her out that way. What I can't see is to fake play on her emotions, "oh I feel for you, it must just have been terrible" to get her to vote out someone. I think it is sadistic. There is no argument that BB should really not have thrown these two into it. But, I don't think that excuses where the line is to cross IMO.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
The BB producers deliberately created a situation where a Dad and his daughter (who have a very rocky relationship to begin with) would be placed in a game where part of winning involves breaking down alliances and relationships.

Having said that, I am also a big proponent of self-determination. Neither Daniele nor Dick are prisoners. If either or both find the situation abhorrent, they have the option of leaving.

Similarly, as Bastable pointed out, Kail has the option to play the game as she feels appropriate. It does hamper someone though if they feel they can not play a certain aspect of the game, due to a situation that was forced upon them by BB.

Stacey718995
Member

07-06-2007

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stacey718995 a private message Print Post    
I guess where we disagree, is the word alliance. I have no issues with anyone breaking up an "alliance" I have issues with you feeding into a youngs girl instability about her father to futher your financial gain. I don't see Dani and Dick as an alliance. Now I do agree that they are not helping their relationship inside this house, though I do hope that it opens up some doors for them away from this. I am not a fan of BB putting the two of them in. I don't think it would take much for Dani to vote out her dad, but I don't agree with how Kail tried to do it. I think it speaks volumes about her personality.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
The problem for the other HGs is that they are an alliance.

Just to clarify though, while I might try various ways to get one or the other out of the house, I wouldn't do what Kail did and potentially hurt their ongoing relationship beyond the game. I'd be pretty irritated with BB though for creating this situation.

Stacey718995
Member

07-06-2007

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stacey718995 a private message Print Post    
Now that I can agree on. It does have an unfairness twist to it. I don't think you could get Dick to ever vote out Dani, but, I don't think it would take much for Dani to vote out Dick.

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
I woudn't put it past Dick to vote out Danielle no matter what he says. If/when he does, I would expect him to justify it by saying that her game wasn't good enough and she was losing....and that he chose to vote her out and play the game for her or use some other twisted, self-serving "logic".

Stacey718995
Member

07-06-2007

Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stacey718995 a private message Print Post    
You may be right. I don't think he is the grandest of gentlemen that is for sure. Maybe I am hoping more than anything.

Bastable
Member

07-09-2002

Friday, July 27, 2007 - 8:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bastable a private message Print Post    
Let me tell you, when I heard Mike's goodbye speeches last night, I thought he was another Kail.

Going on and on about how virtuous he is, about how honorable he is, about what a role model he is for everyone in the house and watching on TV--bleah! The guy barely says a word, and then the few words he does utter end up being arrogant and holier-than-thou.

Did he learn to talk like that from Kail? Doesn't matter. Thank goodness he's gone. Now we can move on to seeing some real entertainment, not dead weight.

Texasdeb
Member

05-23-2003

Friday, July 27, 2007 - 10:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texasdeb a private message Print Post    
Well I thought the stress of last wk might have humbled Kail a bit .... but, it looks like she's back to thinking she's in charge & everything should go the way she wants it. What a trip - I would never claim anyone like this as a friend.