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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 1:58 pm
If Dick had really wanted to stay involved with his children, why not live with Grandma and help raise them. Staying in their lives, but not doing the day to day grind does not a parent make, IMO. They both have some serious issues, IMO, and I"m not sure how I could say one is worse than the other, or one is better than the other. We only saw them in a limited role, in the BB house. They both certainly wear their faults on their sleeve. If their relationship is a mess, it's because they both continue to make it a mess. Neither of them have found a way to relate in a mature, psychologically healthy fashion to each other. It will continue to be a mess until at least one of them works on themselves (not the other one), and learns how to navigate difficult relationships.
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Ivory_mist
Member
08-31-2005
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:24 pm
And Dick wants to give up his lease and go live at Grandmas for a few months....oh...maybe because of his travels. They BOTH need Dr. Phil!
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Scribe
Member
08-16-2000
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:30 pm
Maybe Dick's Mother is the week link ... she had Dick when she was quite young ... his father left and she married Donato who adopted Dick ... if she is 63 now she was 19 when she had him quite young...
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Scribe
Member
08-16-2000
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:31 pm
Maybe the whole family needs Dr Phil
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What555456
Member
06-14-2005
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:35 pm
Dick has already said he wants Dani and himself to go on Dr. Phil's show. It is all just for TV and publicity. Has been from the beginning.
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Loppes
Member
07-12-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:35 pm
Daniele primary raisers were her grandparents, if she wants to blame someone for a "rough - "you don't understand" childhood, she may want to look at the people who actually raised her. Otherwise, I feel she just using Dick as an excuse for her own self centeredness. She actually isn't any different from Dick, if anyone has observed the both of them closely, they equally are in their glory when they bash someone else, they each think they have a greater entitlement than any other house guest, they have all the same habits - i.e. cracking knuckles, cracking their jaws, he burps - she hiccups, just to name a very few...
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Scribe
Member
08-16-2000
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:40 pm
they do .. but maybe its age for Dick .. he just seems to have more humanity about him amidst all those icky habits of his ... he seems deep and thoughtful she is self absorbed and basically unhappy with herself which she takes out on others.
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Scribe
Member
08-16-2000
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:41 pm
she would never have gotten really deep into the gave if she had been alone ... IMO
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Tresbien
Member
08-27-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:41 pm
Here we go back to the respect issue. Dani does not want to air this in public. Does Dick need another hour of television fame at his daughter's expense? My brain is full of words I never use and am not permitted to write here anyway. Dick needs to show his intentions by doing his own work. Be an example for her of reaching out for help when your life isn't going as it should. Are they the same? Yes, I think in many ways they mirror one another. And she does not like the parts of herself that are like him.
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What555456
Member
06-14-2005
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:43 pm
Loppes, I can buy into the idea that Dani should not view her grandparents as blameless, except.... Any psychologicst will tell you that having been rejected by one's own parents leaves and indelible (usually immensely damaging) effects on children that takes long into adulthood to be processed, if it ever is. And the feeling of being rejected is formed in the child at a very young age not as that action is seen from hindsight in young adulthood. I continue to be amazed at the number of people who seem to think that Dani should be "mature" enough to accept what her father now says to her because she is 21. Her reaction to her in-and-out-of-her-life-depending-on-his-mood-and-convenience father is not surprising to me.
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Scribe
Member
08-16-2000
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:48 pm
no not be mature enough to accept what her father says etc - just mature enough to see how she comes off to other people not her father - all the other houseguests - that seems to have been the issue last night and she seemed surprised and was clearly upset..
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:53 pm
Now wait a minute. From what I understand Dick was abandoned by his own father at a very young age, and somewhere along the line got adopted by his mother's second husband. So he has his own justifiable abandonment issues. He was roughly Dani's age when he had those two kids, and he was supposed to be mature enough to raise them on his own while Dani's not supposed to be mature enough to process the fact that her father isn't perfect, but he's trying to be there for her? What am I missing? Dani is at the exact age Dick was when he had her. He was at least mature enough to know that he couldn't handle raising the two children himself and make sure that they were safeguarded with his mother. If I recall also, Dick had to go through court proceedings in order for his mother to allow him access to his kids. So they must have had some sort of agreement whereby Dick was excluded from parental decision-making in order for his mother to agree to raise the kids. Apparently he didn't realize that she intended to exclude him from their lives entirely, and he had to fight in court to gain access. That doesn't sound like abandonment to me. Dani is certainly old enough and smart enough to process her feelings in a healthy manner. Rather than making chicken salad out of her opportunities, she reverts to making chicken shit. People have it a million times worse every day, and they handle it a million times better. She needs to grow the heck up. And so does Dick, for that matter, but at least he's giving it the college try. Feel free to correct me if I have any of these facts wrong, but they are as I remember them from different conversations around the board.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:57 pm
whoah, Excellent fact gathering, Goddessatlaw. ITA
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Mickiej
Member
07-26-2004
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 2:57 pm
I have just spent the last hour reading from Dani's online journal...dated late 2003 to early 2004. Interesting teen-age stuff...as teens go. It does seem that Dick saw his daughter semi-regularly. She talked less of seeing her mom, but missing her alot. This was the time that her grandparents were getting divorced, so I am sure that was part of her whole emotions too. The common thread...wanting someone there special to love her...give her hugs. It gave me a glimpse of who she was. "What doesn't kill ya, makes you stronger". I hope that as she grows and matures, she is able to reconcile with her dad. I thought this was a cute picture...taken at Disney.

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Tresbien
Member
08-27-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:01 pm
I don't know what's fact, but my recollection is that he signed a guardianship paper not realizing that he was terminating all of his parental rights permanently. Hopefully, someone else knows better or has read what Vince has posted about it.
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:09 pm
Mature enough to know he couldn't raise kids? I can't wrap my brain around that one. That's a cop out IMO, especially when you aren't even mature enough to repeat the same mistake twice or go to the corner store and buy a package of condoms. I doubt maturity or the lack thereof had much to do with walking away and letting mom raise your kids. One could say he's still not mature at 44 considering what we've seen the past 3 months.
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Loppes
Member
07-12-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:14 pm
Tres yes Dick said that, however, there is nothing to say that Dick's parents, couldn't have returned guardianship to him --- obviously they didn't, or he didn't try get it back.
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What555456
Member
06-14-2005
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:17 pm
If a natural father has to go through court proceedings in order to have access to his own children when they are being raised by his own mother, someone with legal in authority had denied him access before. No law I know of defines a grandparent's custodial rights as ever automatically trumping a natural parent's custodial rights. The only thing that could have happened for Dick's story to make any sense is that a court or some other legal authority had previously found him to be an unfit parent and taken his custodial rights away. If his mother is so evil that she tricked him into giving up custody (and this would be a truly evil action), then why did he allow her to continue to have custody allowing him only visitation rights and why does he still have any relationship with her? There is FAR more to this story than we have heard from Dick and/or Vincent (who has his own issues with wanting to please the father he seldom saw) -- and it is not a positive story for Dick, because if it were, Dick would have made sure we had heard it.
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:25 pm
Not necessarily, What. It sounds like Dick intended to exercise visitation with his kids and mom was flat denying him access in contravention of his rights. I'm not sure what the manner of ceding authority to his mother was, whether it was guardianship or a volunatary surrender of parental rights. It couldn't have been the latter, there's no way he wouldn't have known he was surrendering all authority over his kids for life. My surmise was it was guardianship and his mother simply decided to cut him out of the loop. And didn't get away with it. It happens all day every day in custody disputes.
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Landileigh
Member
07-29-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:25 pm
GAL, THANK YOU! that was an awesome post and summed everything up in a nutshell
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Tresbien
Member
08-27-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:37 pm
Not everyone reads legal documents carefully or has an attorney review them before signing. If he was overwhelmed or had other things to do, he might have been happy that his mom took over and didn't attend to the details as he should. Also, if you read what Dick wrote in the article Scribe linked yesterday in the relationship thread, there was an issue with the kids and Dick's second wife. ETA: Thank you, Loppes, I thought that was what he said.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:45 pm
You made some very strong points there GAL.
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What555456
Member
06-14-2005
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 3:52 pm
If that were the case, Goddess, then why did he allow her to continue to have custody? Why would any loving parent allow someone to continue to have custody once he knew she would deny the parent visitation? Assuming he originally gave custody voluntarily, he could have rescinded that when he was in court anyway to get visitation. But he didn't. Why wouldn't he if she was denying him visitation from the children he supposdly wanted to have so much access to? No, custody at some point was taken from Dick involuntarily and given to his mother. And it is likely he was denied visitation by the same legal authority at the same time they took custody away. The court action he later filed was to alter a previous court order that had declared him as unfit to visit his children. Dick wants to lay this all on his mother. I don't buy it. Especially when the entire drug side of this comes into play, which we know he was involved in at the time. He can re-write history all he wants and people can glean a little of truth here and a little truth there and develop elaborate excuses and explanations because they so want to justify what he did and make him out to be just a misguided youth who was thinking only of his children. But the whole does not add up. The person I respect? With as much as Dick and Dani have vilified her as they seem to do with everyone inbcluding each other, I respect his mother for not having come forward to defend herself. She knows the truth and knows it does no matter what the public thinks. She gave up 20+ years of her life to raise the children Dick would not raise. Let Dick bash her as an evil person who played tricks to deny Dick visitation all he wants. She did the work. She was there day after day, helping and loving those kids even after she had raised her own children and should have been able to relax and simply enjoy grandchildren. She has enough self-respect and self-confidence to know she does not have to justify herself to anyone. Dick, on the other hand, seems to think he has to paint her as evil and himself as good. This in itself speaks volumes.
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 4:06 pm
What, suffice it to say I strongly disagree with your assessment of Dick's likely tour through the legal system with his children. At no time have any of his children (or he) suggested that he had his children taken away from him because he was an unfit parent. Everyone has stated that he ceded guardianship and/or custody to his mother voluntarily. And as far as I recall, Dick and his mother have a decent relationship now. Whatever the source of their spat was years ago apparently has ceased to be an issue. As you've seen, this particularly family doesn't seem to have coping skills that involve open communication. People violate custodial orders all day every day when they're pissed off at the other party. I see no reason to turn this into a presumption that Dick was found an unfit parent at some point. I could go on and on about this, but the topic of the thread is "How is she any different than him." My opinion is that she is much more self-centered than he is, and that is the core of their difference. He may have been just as self-centered at that stage in his life, but at least he has tried to show Dani that he loves her more than himself.
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Csnog
Member
07-18-2002
| Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 4:37 pm
What I understood was that Dick was having a hard time taking care of the kids with his working nights. He asked his mother to help and she said she would ONLY if she had custody. Dick saw them and then he and his mother had a spat. She denied him visitation. He never abandoned his children. Didn't he say that his mother became a minister about 10 years ago? That might have something to do with it.
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