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The S6 Aliance: What Went Wrong?

The TVClubHouse: Big Brother 7 All-Stars ARCHIVES: Big Brother 7 All-Stars Part 3: The S6 Aliance: What Went Wrong? users admin

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Mlt
Member

09-18-2002

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mlt a private message Print Post    
Going after the floaters and making a deal of sorts with CT wasn't necessarily bad strategy on seaon six's part. The mistake was nominating Erika. Janie did it because she kept saying how she wanted the floaters to play. (Of course, everytime she said it I would yell 'no you don't!')

But Janie insisted on putting Erika up to make her play. Well, it worked. Erika might have dropped out of that last HOH comp earlier if she still felt safe. But after Janie's move, she knew where she stood in the pecking order.

Now, if Erika had dropped out earlier, it is possible that Howie might have held on longer. Dani was really hurting. So was Howie. But with Erika there, holding on as if she could go on for hours, Howie made a deal that probably saved him this week and let go. Otherwise, I really think Howie might have been able to win it. Not sure, but I think it's entirely possible. Janie ruined that by trying to scare the floaters into playing.

Not only did Janie's nominations push the floaters to start playing, it also pushed James all the way out of the group.

Now the tragedy here is that now, with James' defection because of the nominations, and with Kaysar's probable eviction, if one of the other two (Janie or Howie) get to the end, they are only guaranteed one other vote.

The only hope they have at this point is to have James evicted instead of Kaysar. Now the problem here is that if either Janie or Howie start pushing for that and James gets wind of it, they will have James gunning for them next week full force - instead of having him trying to fly under the radar for a few weeks without having to reveal his hand. And not having someone coming full force to get you is still not having someone coming full force to get you.

At least, that's how I see it.

Mlt
Member

09-18-2002

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mlt a private message Print Post    
Oh, one final thing. When Erika was nominated, it not only informed Erika where she stood, it scared Marci and he turned on Janie. He might have in the end anyway, knowing Marci. But until then, he wanted Janie in the final three. Now he's swearing up and down that she will never get his vote. And if he gets HOH next week, Janie is the one I think he will target.

And all of this traces back, in my opinion, to the nomination of Erika. Janie should have nominated Will and Diane if she wanted to get rid of Diane.

Starr
Member

07-09-2005

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Starr a private message Print Post    
What went wrong? One word: james.

My opinion exactly.


also feel Kay sealed his own fate because exactly as you described, he let go of his gameplay. He let his emotions get the best of him.

I agree with this too. The Kaysar we see this season is not the same player we saw last year. Kaysar "Allstar" - I would not have voted for to go back in! I miss the old Kaysar!! :-(

Oddsygirl
Member

07-11-2006

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Oddsygirl a private message Print Post    
Clio, while I like your analysis. I would like to say that I watched on the Live feed when Dani and Kaysar were having this discussion. I have seen what you are talking about, but I can tell you that I think this was a great editing job.

When Kay was asked about Janie having an aliance with CT, Kay did not answer No, he said that I know of or maybe it was not that I know about.

Oddsygirl
Member

07-11-2006

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Oddsygirl a private message Print Post    
Will and Boogie are in an alliance with themselves. They have created all these fake alliances. Either last night or maybe earlier today, they were talking about How they could swing to votes to get James booted because they know that they can not trust them.

Jhmom
Member

07-10-2005

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jhmom a private message Print Post    
I don't think anything has gone wrong with the S6 alliance this season. I just think we are seeing how these individuals would have played last year had there not been the united friendship to battle.

I believe season 6 was unique. The battle lines between the 2 alliances turned into an all out war. With no war, they have more options to make it to the end.

It is only natural that they would take advantage of them.

Oddsygirl
Member

07-11-2006

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Oddsygirl a private message Print Post    
I agree with JHmom. This is such a different year than Season 6. This year each of the "alliance" has an umbrella (Or did), this is because they knew at some point someone else was going to win HOH, and they wanted to make sure that someone outside of their "alliance" would protect them. It just happened to be the first Umbrella to get HOH was James'.

Mush
Member

09-09-2002

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 3:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mush a private message Print Post    
The problem with any alliance is when one KNOWS that he is at the bottom of their list. It happened on Survivor when Rob C turned on the girls, and James knew coming in that he was the bottom of S6. He was going to have to turn on them eventually to make it to the end.

As much as I dislike James (f'ing this and f'ing that), I think he is making the most of that position by pretending he's still with them when he's not.

Bugeye
Member

07-18-2005

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 4:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bugeye a private message Print Post    
They didn't win HOH this week. Other than that they did "pretty good" -- actually Kaysar did great. Then James insisted on not putting Di on the block and then Janie's ultra shadey execution of the noms and veto created the problems. All was settled the night before the noms with K spending plenty of time with Jan. If she needed him the next day she could've told H to get him. You saw on the tv show Jan saying to Howie, "get James". She was using the Kaysar sleeping thing as a really lame excuse and it was clear in even the sound of her voice how she was lying to all that week. She made it known that she was a loose cannon. Therefore she gave the parachutes an excuse to move ahead aggressively. Of course, James was screwing things up all over the place and it's a miracle the group stayed together as long as they did. Again, thanks to Kaysar.

The Sovs were a huge target from day 1. In reality it was Kaysar as the biggest target. Marci exacerbated that. Janie was being protected by M & E who wanted to take her presumably to finals.

Now there's 3 left -- Not bad. They had an awesome and gutsy plan (hi Kaysar) and made allies, are switching up allies. All are playing well, on balance. The others keep wanting them to turn on eachother but K kept em together for the most part (but most of the floaters and CT did in fact turn on eachother earlier in the game). Even now James doesn't have the ammo to say, "see they turned on me" to show all the floaters. And this could be the nail in his coffing this week -- shows he can't be trusted. It may seem like a minor point, but little things can often be of greater consequence then they seem.

Bastable
Member

07-09-2002

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 4:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bastable a private message Print Post    
Nothing went wrong! Of course the S6 is going to have to lose somebody during the course of the season! Did anyone really think they were going to survive intact until the Final Four?

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 4:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
I couldn't agree more with the one word answer...JAMES. They had NO chance with him running to everyone and not only giving away their strategy but spreading point blank lies that made them truly hate the Sov3 and he made sure that the entire house stayed focused on them.

Now if by some miracle James deservedly leaves this week, we may see the Sovs at least have a slight fighting chance. And to think I fell for James saying he would play with loyalty and wanted him back in. Little did I know that he would be the ruination, IMHO, of everyone I truly like in the game (not counting CG or Nak, who never played to my hopes of her.).

Chy
Member

07-19-2003

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 5:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chy a private message Print Post    
Clio, I see it like Dfng. Nothing went wrong. If anything did, it's the production putting them in like this. They have to win, win and win all the way until the end of this week when the four of them just becomes automatically the larger half of the votes. But the "blew" it. They lost this one, the only chance for the rest of the house to actually even up with them. No matter how they've been sending people home, or whom Janelle nomed last week, this is the first opening for the non-S6 to hurry up and cease the day.

Yeah, James is smart. He has figured all this out and set up other outs for himself. I too, just wish he didn't have to talk this awful about people who view him as a friend(I was corrected earlier about the four of them being friends).

What went wrong is that there was no need for an All Star to begin with.

Iheartkaysar
Member

08-16-2005

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 6:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Iheartkaysar a private message Print Post    
I agree with the latest posters. The Sov6 all made decisions based on sound logic based on what they know. We see everything, so our perspective is obviously much different from theirs.

A sov6 player was leaving as soon as a non-sov6 player got HOH. That was inevitable. That they made it this far as a group (whether they feel they are a group or not) is impressive.

As for whether nominating different people would have strengthened allegiances: James, Dani, Erika and Marcellas are always looking for a reason to turn on someone. If it hadn't been the Erika nomination, it would have been something else. This is where I think Will has the game down. He realizes he doesn't have to rationalize or justify every decision. He just does what he wants/needs to do on a day-to-day basis. It's not personal.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 6:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wendo a private message Print Post    
Lack of trust and communication doomed the S6'ers from the beginning.

Hiyall
Member

07-06-2005

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 6:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hiyall a private message Print Post    
The Sov6 all made decisions based on sound logic based on what they know. We see everything, so our perspective is obviously much different from theirs.


That is exactly right!

Chy
Member

07-19-2003

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 6:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chy a private message Print Post    
Trust and communication not withstand the fact that all the non-S6ers need to get rid of the Sea. sixers in order to advance in the game.

There's nothing the sea6 could have done to change this situation: The moment a non-S6 is occupying the HOH, two of their alliance would be up there. They could have allow James to make the call for every nom.. Or James could still be loyal to their alliance. Nothing! Nothing would make a difference.

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 6:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Chy I'll tell you why I don't totally believe that would have been true. Sure common sense would say the house would have to get them out. But wouldn't common sense say Will would be long gone by now??? So you never know in this game. That's why I still say if James had not totally sold them out and kept everyone focused on how they had to go, it MIGHT have been a different game. We'll never know.

But this is now TWO BB houses that James split in half by promoting hate. First he ran and pitted everyone against each other last year and now he did the same thing this year. IMHO he is poison both to the game, and to our enjoyment of the game. I want him GONE so badly I can't tell you!!!!!

Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 6:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Curlyq a private message Print Post    
There's so many answers as to what went wrong.

Making their alliance clear from the get-go, which let their "parachute" people know they'd never be more than 5th place.

Insisting that the best strategy is to go after floaters. Kaysar's reason: to shake up the game. James' reason: to stop someone like Chicken George, who he saw as useless, to make it to the end. Both reasons: ridiculous.

Insisting that floaters should be forced to take a side without realizing they would take the opposing side.

Forgetting that only the last few seasons have featured a clearly divided house, and that a lot of the players from the earlier seasons preferred to keep alliances under wraps and change them up as the game goes on.

Believing that all the people they didn't nominate would feel grateful, as if they'd had the power to nominate everyone at the same time and simply chose not to as a personal favor.

Believing the Chilltown alliance of two would be a bigger target than an alliance of four.

Believing Diane was the most pressing threat they had to deal with.

Showing a pattern of telling people they're safe and then nominating them at the veto ceremony.

Listening to Kaysar's ideas, when he's the only one of them to lose twice in one season.

Leaving their parachutes out of the loop when it came time to decide on nominations.

Leaving members of their own alliance out of the loop when it came time to decide on nominations.

Making their parachute alliances so obvious that their own S6 teammates could see them and lose trust.

Being so obvious when they're after someone, like Kaysar actually shaving his head just to get rid of Chicken George, or like Janelle giving the goggles to Diane and pretending it was just because she didn't know who to give them to (while both of her nominees were still sitting there without hindrances).

Bottom line, they underestimate their opponents. This is why they lost last year.

Chy
Member

07-19-2003

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 7:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chy a private message Print Post    
Okay, Lurk. I have to agree, even though I see that chance as being real real slim.

Will and Kaysar now is the one playing the game Kaysar envisioned: Everyone busy taking out their biggest threat rather than dealing with the pink elephant of an alliance.

I'll give Will props, but I'm still holding out hope that boogie will not get too far.

Darclyte
Member

07-11-2005

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 7:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Darclyte a private message Print Post    
The whole house has been saying from Day 1 that
they have to get rid of at least 2 Sovs so that
they don't pack the sequester and the final votes.
I doubt CT would have been nominated by anyone
until after 2 Sovs were gone.
Despite that, they could have done more to keep
their parachutes on their side, and maybe they
could have got a bye with all 4 into sequester
time...but I doubt it.

Nickovtyme
Member

07-29-2004

Monday, August 07, 2006 - 7:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nickovtyme a private message Print Post    
I'm not so sure anything really went wrong. I think alot of it had to do with the fact that they came into the house expecting it to be like last season...so they drew a line immediately and wanted to know where everybody stood. I dunno...but they may have expected it to be more of an us vs. them like last season and when it wasn't...it messed with them.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spunky a private message Print Post    
<MG> As soon as I saw James in that alliance I knew it wouldn't last...

Bluejaxrock
Member

04-23-2004

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bluejaxrock a private message Print Post    
It started when they didn't cultivate any other floaters. They could have brought CG in the first week through Howie. - csnog

I couldn't agree more. Why didn't S6 try to "befriend" either Erika or CG? I remember reading that Kay & E were having a good time together. And Howie's soft spot for CG & vice versa. That could have been cultivated. But noooo (ala Steve Martin), they had to villify someone. That happens every season. Anyone remember Gerry? So he had pee-pee hands, (and I think that was shown to be true of the majority of the house anyway) fix your own damn food and don't touch what he's touched. Help me remember, who were some of the HGs who were shunned from any group because they were too old, or odd. This may be one of the main reasons I get fed up with BB.
I wonder what is wrong with me that I continue to watch? lol

Mummy35332
Member

09-09-2005

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mummy35332 a private message Print Post    
I doubt CT would have been nominated by anyone
until after 2 Sovs were gone.


I agree. CT aside, any HOH in the last 4 evictions would have choosen people other than CT. But since they did not have to make the choice, then it becomes the S6's dirty work..........they sure are giving S6 a lot of responsibility, without respect for what they did. So who made it S6's responsibility to get rid of CT? If getting rid of CT is so important, then Dani should have done it instead of blaming others for not doing it. YMO.

Fixed - <MG>

Forum_moderator
Moderator

01-01-2004

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Forum_moderator a private message Print Post    
Mummy, At the end of your "italics" section you have to put a }.

Mummy35332
Member

09-09-2005

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mummy35332 a private message Print Post    
Seems all the older BB players have been seen as expendable. We need a season of mature HG's. Age isn't the defining factor, maturity is.

But what right minded mature person would sign on for this. I love to watch, but definatley do not want to go into the house.

Mummy35332
Member

09-09-2005

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 10:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mummy35332 a private message Print Post    
Thanks Mod.

Jeanmarie
Member

05-15-2006

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 10:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeanmarie a private message Print Post    
The S6 what went wrong? Easy, If you see <77> You don't engage it in conversation. The S6 never learned that. Two seasons running. Unbelievable.

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 10:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
There was a BIG mistake made. If they had gotten rid of Diane instead of Nakomis, Janelle could have gone for Danielle last week and they'd be sitting pretty. If Nakomis had won HOH in the meantime, she planned to nominate one from Sea6 and one from CT. They could easily have overcome that with the votes. No one else there is doing any winning.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 11:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Dani instead of Ali and James, so sad..

Appletalk
Member

03-27-2003

Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Appletalk a private message Print Post    
I like S6 and I liked them last year. It was easier to like them last year because of who they were up against. But I think they are playing pretty much the same game. They play from feelings or the heart or for personal reasons instead of strategic reasons IMO. They should have gotten rid of upfront strong players that were openly against them. The floaters are floaters because they want to go where the power is. Let them float use them to your advantage while you can you don't have to have complete trust in them. Use them to keep the power and the numbers. When it comes to crunch pick them off. Don't make it an obvious pecking order. Play the game keep your eye on the prize. As much as I don't like Dani - that is what she is doing - keeping her eye on the prize.

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 9:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
What went wrong...for one thing, Will is in the house. They'd all be better off if he'd been gone first or after Ali. I am enjoying him in there though.

Even though they didn't win, Dani and Jason got so far because they never faltered with their alliance no matter what. (I truly think Dani would have won if the diary rooms had not been seen by the hgs on the jury.) Kay, Jan, and How should have had this pact and a pact to vote together and work together on all evictions and since they didn't have to hide it as Jason and Dani did it is easier for them to meet and plot. Maybe they have voted the same, but they haven't always been in agreement and that is part of their undoing.

It would have been great for them if they'd stayed a block of 4, all four would have been final 4, but I can see James not being able to do that since he is not as tight as J, K , and H.

Another problem, Jan lying. Big problem, hard to get trust in this game anyway.

Rosie
Member

11-12-2003

Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 9:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosie a private message Print Post    
Jan wanted to get Dani out but James rallied to save his secret partner. One of his secret partners...

James betrayed them all but he will betray his new alliances too.