Author |
Message |
Clemmis
Member
07-10-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 11:05 am
Does anyone else think The Woogie are not as successful as they claim? Here’s what I’ve been thinking based on gut instinct, facts from watching, and analysis of the live feeds: 1. If they were as successful as they claim they would not need to be on BB7. Truly successful people do not brag about their success, for their deeds speak for them. The Woogie’s constant proclamations of brilliance and business acumen suggest, to me anyway, that they are deeply in debt and are using BB7 to enhance their broken bottom lines. 2. Will did not attend a top-notch medical school. He is not a Harvard Grad or a Columbia Grad or even a UCLA or USC grad. That speaks a lot to his ability as a student and as a doctor because your med school wholly defines you and your training as a doctor. Wouldn’t you think such a self-proclaimed brilliant mind graduated from a traditionally top-tier medical school? The fact that he did not attend a top-tier school speaks about the truth behind the Dr. Will illusion and manipulation of what is not for what is really real. 3. Boogie strikes me as a wannabee who does not have a lot of money despite his protestations on the live feeds. I think he is a 1% owner – if that -- in those restaurants. He does not have ongoing command and control of his restaurant interests and you know that because he’s in the house and you see how he behaves. I think the minimal stake he has in the eating establishments are based merely on his PR-ability to get people to come into the establishments. He is hired by these restaurant interests to play “the affable fool-as-performing-money” and there is little longevity or riches in playing that role as evidenced in the car insurance discussion with James where Boogie claimed saving $70 on his car insurance would make a big difference. Millionaires spend $70 the same way we ordinary people spend seven cents. There is no way, if Boogie were a truly big part of those restaurant enterprises, that he could take a summer off to play the game that, in effect, exposes him a rube, a liar, and a person not of high moral integrity. 4. If you were a serious doctor, would you enjoy lying, scheming and wounding others in a game like BB7? Your reputation is everything as an MD and Will is doing nothing but damage to his reputation as an MD in playing this game. Isn’t an MD’s primary duty to “first do not harm” and to maintain your integrity in all scopes and capers your paramount driving force as a doctor? Can you successfully dance across a line between professional and personal behavior? I think not. Kaysar has more of a professional MD mentality and a caring personality and a belief in non-betrayal and never lying than Dr. Will. Will’s behavior in the house suggests to me he is not finding great financial success in the medical field. He does not own his own shop and, you know, based on watching him on the live feeds, that fact kills him. 5. I believe Dr. Will and Boogie are Myths In Their Own Minds – and they are desperate to win and have your buy their stories because they need the money. They admit they lie at the drop of a hat, so if nothing they say is true why would anyone believe their tales of wealth and success and investment and in “star casting” their projects are true? Those claimed successes are the twin mistruths of their BB7 game and viewers who buy into their false claims of success and wealth are the first victims to their fantasy of self-importance and middling social influence.
|
Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 11:15 am
Well thought out, Clemmis. I pondered Will's success myself, when he glommed on to $5,000 in the POV contest. That was very telling, in my opinion.
|
Justplainme
Member
05-06-2006
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 11:26 am
Wonderful....I agree with you 100%. I have had the same feelings all along.
|
Clemmis
Member
07-10-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 11:37 am
Hiya Rupert and Just -- Yes, I don't think Will makes a lot of money based on watching him and his behavior on the show. You'd think after 5 years he'd own several offices instead of being a non-named partner in a single office. My feeling is he has found a woman who “comes from money” and that is the gravy train he currently rides and that is why Boogie is so upset with Will for settling down with a woman who is wrong for him psychically but who also appears to pay his way emotionally. I'm sure Will has tons of debt from medical school so most of his income goes to paying down that burden. I feel for him, but I also feel if he lived an upright and moral life – like Kaysar and even Janelle and Howie, who seems incapable of backstabbing anyone, and that is the real reason America, on the whole, loves them -- in every aspect of his being he would be more successful as a doctor. I believe Will is a doctor because it was a convenient path and he is easily bored. Will really wants to be a star, a player in the entertainment biz, and not a medical practitioner. The sooner the BB Powers realize this, the easier he becomes to control and manipulate. I was especially appalled at The Woogie’s recent stories about the respect they were show on another reality show and how they were going to sue and get a better hot tub. A successful MD and a success entrepreneur don’t need to resort to those tricks because their success commands them never to be in a position to need to play that lowly power card of threatening legal action.
|
Lynn
Member
07-27-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:02 pm
Boogie was very excited about his plasma TV. Why did he not already have one? Boogie has also talked about living in an apartment building with some friends. Why is he not in a big Mansion?
|
Clemmis
Member
07-10-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:34 pm
Right, Lynn! People as successful as The Woogie claim to be would laugh at winning five grand or a plasma TV. We need to remember we are being played just like the houseguests when it comes to being sucked in by their alleged "successes" outside the house. Boogie, by all the clues revealed on the show, does not have a lot of money, either.
|
Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:38 pm
Just to play devil's advocate... I am sure the allure of TV and the spotlight has an impact in their lives...they are all quite taken by it. I know lots of adults that are very successful at their jobs, but would take time out to go on tv in a heartbeat. I'm not one of them, but lots of people value the spotlight over everything else. While tv exposure isn't my thing, I am a big believer in people going for interesting experiences. At the end of their lives, what would be more fun to talk about....their humdrum jobs or two summers playing a game on national tv while being viewed by people on the internet 24 hours a day (minus blackouts)? What better publicity for the restaurants or medical practice than free national tv commercials? The restaurant industry tends to attract non-comformist types anyway. Owners don't always spend a lot of time there. I know of doctors who have taken large amounts of time off to travel and do things like that...this is the same sort of thing. And they live in CA... aren't they supposed to do wacky things? (salute to my buddies in CA...yes, I certainly could live there.) As for the money, how much money you have has almost nothing to do with how much you make. It has to do with how you manage it. And no matter how much money I make, I get a free shampoo sample in the mail and I get excited. If I had tvs in every room (and I almost do), I win a new plasma and I would be incredibly excited. Especially if I had gone without tv for the summer, save Julia Chen on Thursdays. Schools....I would say our best schools don't always turn out our best doctors. Just like they don't always turn out the most successful people. The truth is that if I must defend them because if they wouldn't have made the decision to be on the show, I don't think I would have enjoyed this season. I know I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. Hail to the hamsters!
|
Clemmis
Member
07-10-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:54 pm
Hi Yesitsme -- I can't think of any MD I know – or medical student or intern -- who would want to be on BB7 and choose to willingly portray themselves as a liar and a backstabber. It doesn’t make sense from a long-term profitability view as a healthcare provider, unless that is, you are not really making it as an MD in relation to your peers and you are seeking to leapfrog their financial success by giving yourself and your professional reputation over to the entertainment industry. There are lots of Boogies in the world -- but they are not majority owners in a successful restaurant chain no matter what they claim on the internet feeds. I understand The Woogie entertainment value, but their behavior in the house does not provide much redeeming human value for me in the sustained duty as caring human beings outside the house.
|
Aus10
Member
09-28-2000
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:55 pm
I just want to comment on Clemmis #2. She/He is spot on!! Will may be coniving but that has little to do with intelligence per say. His personality traits show he is excellent at manpulation, but his Medical schooling does show that he is not any more exceptionally intelligent than those around him. My son just took the MCAT in April and is now starting to deal with grad/med applications. The intelligence is takes to get into the top medical schools sets those people apart from the rest. (And yes, *mom brag* mines applying to some ivy's and top schools.) Granted, you still call a man Dr., even if he graduates last in his class from Podunk U, but I'd think twice about actually needing medical advice from him....
|
Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 12:59 pm
I'm confused, I guess, about the "He is not a Harvard Grad or a Columbia Grad or even a UCLA or USC grad"...Columbia and UCLA are tied in med school rankings! USC, on the other hand...not so much.
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:06 pm
Your son may end up being a wonderful Doctor. However, IMO, graduating from a top medical school with high honors is no guarantee. Conversely, a Doctor who graduates from a more modest medical school may end up being a wonderful Doctor, as far as his or her patients are concerned. I seem to recall Will making some very positive comments about how seriously he takes his profession and the care of his patients.
|
Aus10
Member
09-28-2000
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:10 pm
Oh, I agree with you Jimmer...but no matter how unfortunate it seems, it's the intelligence level (thus the scores, grades, etc.) that get you into the top schools. And while I think Will is smart, I don't see him as being an evil "genus." Just evil. 
|
Amac
Member
09-07-2001
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:12 pm
I did a Google search and obtained the following: "Dr. Will Kirby has a degree in Biology from Emory University, which he received in 1995. He obtained his medical degree from Nova Southeastern University in 2000 and did his first year of postgraduate training in Internal Medicine at Mount Sinai Medical Center & Miami Heart Institute in Miami Beach, Florida in 2001. In 2003, after winning CBS’s Big Brother 2 and serving as a medical correspondent for the TV news magazine eXTRA!, Dr. Kirby decided to move to Southern California and exclusively devote his time to the practice of Dermatology. He specializes in laser tattoo removal, skin rejuvenation, and cosmetic dermatological procedures." http://www.coastdermatology.com/drkirby.htm "The Dolce Group opened the Italian restaurant Dolce Enoteca in Hollywood nearly three years ago and quickly developed a reputation in Los Angeles for opening hip restaurants with lively bar scenes. It didn't hurt that the group's core investors were A-List celebrities, such as Ashton Kutcher, Danny Masterson and Jamie Kennedy, who often made appearances. Mike Malin, the primary owner of the group with partner Lonnie Moore, also is an actor. He is known for being a cast member in the CBS reality show "Big Brother" and ensuing reunion shows as well as having roles in such movies as "Psycho Beach Party." http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_47_39/ai_n15927982
|
Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:16 pm
Doctors do not have to be graduated from top medical schools to be good. Will probably does have a lot of debt. Just because he is on Big Brother is no reason to think his medical skills are poor. Doctors do not have to be smarter than the average person. They do have to want a medical education enough to give 4 to 6 years of their lives to obtain it. A medical degree is very difficult to obtain. I am sure Will can be serious and focused when he has to be or he would not have gotten a degree.
|
Outlawout
Member
07-28-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:19 pm
Yeah, I agree that Will and Boogie's apparent frugality and greed could be evidence that they do have money. I think there's a book out (which I admit I've never even skimmed, but heard about) that studied the common qualities of wealthy people. I think being very tight with money--like only buying newer used cars, never brand new cars because of the immediate value loss--is very common. That's how they get rich. They take every bit of savings or free money they can get. I'm not sure it's really accurate to generalize that millionares treat 70 bucks like 70 cents. I wish I were more like that. My partner and I make good middle class salaries. We pay all of our bills without trouble, have a year's worth of living money in the bank, put enough in the kid's college fund each month and have a decent number of toys and do fun stuff, but we aren't going to buy a summer house or a big boat or extra car anytime soon. I COULD make more money plenty of ways but I choose not to. Shoot, I have the option of not working summers and I take it every single year, even though I could increase my salary several thousand dollars for working 12 months, which is just normal for most people. I could clip a coupon once in a while during my 3 months off, but I'd rather spend my summer wasting away with Big Brother, with NO chance of winning 500K! The point is, I grew up poor, and I'm perfectly happy being solidly middle class. Being rich just isn't important to me. For those to whom it IS important, everything they do is about getting richer. Boogie also apparently, according to Will, as told to another houseguest, once owned a fancy condo, but moved into "the frat house" because he liked having company. I could see Boogie as the type who'd rather save living expenses AND live with a bunch of guys like they were in college. Look at the way he drinks. He's a 37 year old frat boy. Unfortunately, I think that maturity isn't always a necessity for financial success, especially in the hospitality industry, which is pretty much run and supported by people who live like they are in college well into their middle age. And Will's medical training...I live in town with the U. of Illinois. Most of the doctors here in town went to med. school here. Not a Harvard or Columbia, but a solid public med school that is one of the crowd. Those doctors are all doing just fine. I don't think one has to be Ivy league to make a good living. And Will's dad has to be pretty well off based on his CV, so I doubt college med. school debt is a very big deal for Will. I'm an academic and I know one thing about academics--they make sure their kids get an education. I doubt either of them is mega-rich, but I wouldn't be especially surprised if they are both really comfortable--probably more comfortable than most of us--and trying to get even more so. I really don't know either way. But I don't think it's as implausible as many others think that they are doing just fine and just can't stay out of the limelight. Sounds like Boogie talks Will into these things, and Boogie is so desperate for approval it's not even funny. And I don't care who you are, if you are offered five or ten thousand bucks and it won't get YOU or anyone you care about evicted, you take it.
|
What555456
Member
06-14-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:26 pm
Well of course they are not exactly the most successful people in their professions! Hell Will can't have much of a practice iof he can walk away from it for three months! What doctor do you now can do that at a moment's notice? Mike as a successful restauranteur? LOL!!! Hardly! He opens the types of places that go in and out in Hollywood all the time -- depending on the fickleness of the "In" crowd. he likes to party and hobnob with those who ARE something -- and so he spends his time creating environments where they miught be coaxed to. I have yet to see anybody on any reality TV show that has a life worth living. Why else would they go on these shows? Virtually all of them want to make it in Hollywood and they see this as their entry.
|
Sassy
Member
07-06-2006
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:32 pm
I have been wondering when someone would bring up this subject. It has been my impression all along that these 2 are not nearly as successful as they portray themselves. Another story Will tells is one that I totally do not believe. He is claiming he will be on episodes of Dr. 90210. I really don't believe any of his stories and it is my thought that everything he tells in the house is made up. I also think it is total bull on his part that the diary room told him he could not speak to Julie again on the live shows. I can just see him in the diary room telling the producers to "just watch this and be sure to get me on camera when I tell this lie". I would never believe a word out of this guys mouth and I am sure in his real life no one does! I have lived many years around several people like this and they are very convincing to most people and that is why they behave this way. Dr. Will is going to leave this game and spend lots of time laughing at all of the house guests for falling for his BS. Of course, he will probably laugh all the way to the bank. Just another spoiled rotten kid who never grew up. This is just my opinion and if I am wrong I can live with it.
|
Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:32 pm
and to add to Out's post, Boog and Will both desperately seem to be wannabees. i dont think anything we are seeing or hearing is spontaneous. It seems that they had a solid plan before going into the house and are playing out that 'role'. Will may be a doctor but it's just another job to me. worked in the medical field for years and Will is nothing compared to some of the behaviour I've witnessed first hand in Hospital. In my opinion, both Will and Boog want to be actors and extend their previous 15mins by ANY means possible. Both seem not to be happy in their lives and careers or I'd suggest they wouldnt be on a desperate quest for TV time. Now that is has become apparent that Erika and Boog have been living together I would suggest we TRULY are being Joe Schmoed. either that or we will soon be told about the "secret partners" twist
|
Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:33 pm
Sometimes the medical profession attracts people who are quite arrogant....they don't care or possibly don't recognize how they are perceived. I look around our town....some of the people with the worst reputations are doctors (and some of the best, too.) The ones with bad reputations still make a good living. I volunteer at a free clinic here and the doctor I worked with the other night can be an incredible jerk in his personal life and has done some things I think are horrible. Still, patients love him and I love working with him. I don't necessarily agree with how he practices medicine sometimes, and probably wouldn't go to him myself for various reasons, but none of those reasons have to do with how he is in his personal life. I can't even tell you where my doctor went to school. In fact, I usually go to a nurse practitioner and I trust her knowledge over that of many MDs I know (some from top schools.) I may be delusional, but I am also very healthy. If my doctor had done a reality show, I'd find it interesting. And I guess I consider Big Brother a game, so I wouldn't necessarily ascribe their behavior here to the real world. I think it is consistent with real life for some, but not for all. If I were playing, I doubt I would be the same as I am in the business world. Oh...and I am not panning the top medical schools. I admire people who get in and survive there and am grateful for what they will give the world. But people attend certain schools for all kinds of reasons and it isn't necessarily because they couldn't get in anywhere better. I got in and attended a good college, but that means nothing in itself. There were a lot of stupid people there. I also know people who have attended the top medical schools and they would tell you that brilliant doctors have come from lesser schools and there are doctors who graduated with them from the top schools that they would never go to themselves. Congrats on your son's success Aus. That's great. You have great reason to be proud. Good luck to him. I hope he reaches all of his goals!
|
Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:36 pm
What doctor do you now can do that at a moment's notice? It wasnt a moments notive...and most doctors I know can do anything they want provided the other doctors can pick up the slack. (( I live near a ski-hill. We've had doctors refuse to come in.....because they can! We had a girl in ICU (car accident) lose her baby because the specialist wouldnt come over a weekend. there was a lot of pointing fingers but no lawsuits that I heard about))
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:40 pm
Also, when you consider Will's specialty, it is even easier to see how he could take time off if he wants.
|
Aus10
Member
09-28-2000
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:43 pm
Thank you yesitsme. I am very proud of him. I hope some day you'll all know him by name when he wins the Nobel...LOLOLOL ;) I agree that a top school isn't the be all end all.. After all there's more to being a GOOD doctor than education. Compassion and understanding have a great deal to do with it, as does desire to become a top physician. And once again, I'm just saying that Will tries to tell us how intelligent he is, and I just don't believe that he's that much more intelligent than a lot of others. Nova Southeastern in Davie FL is an osteopathic school. Which makes this scenario even more interesting. So he's not an M.D. He's a D.O. I will give him credit though, it's usually very hard to specialize in Dermatology coming from a D.O. school, so he's had to be at the top of his class. Traditionally, you can get into a D.O. schools with lower MCAT scores, although other than a few different philosophy's they are basically the same course of study.
|
Outlawout
Member
07-28-2005
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:54 pm
But, the assumption is that intelligence/good grades are needed for success. The Academic VP of my institution readily admits to getting straight C's and having to take remedial math at the same party college Jase went to. Not that my boss isn't smart...But I think there's a cultural myth that sucessful people are very serious, driven, no-nonsense folks. That hasn't been my experience at all. It takes risk to move up and the kind of personality it takes to make those moves are often the kind we find immature, insensitive, reckless. As Sunshyne sais, whne you've worked side by side with supposedly "accomplished" folks, you realize they are often huge jackasses. Look at Trump--the guy is a couple fries hsort of a happy meal. And god knows HE didn't need the money he made to look like a goofball on reality TV :-) POTUS would be another example.
|
Yesitsme
Member
08-24-2004
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:56 pm
If your son doesn't win the Nobel for medicine, tell him to go on Big Brother and we'll vote him "most likely to win a Nobel." Candidates for that with this current group of houseguests are a bit scarce! Will reads people very, very well. I think that is a great skill for a doctor. One of the most useful. He's also such a good schmoozer....if he couldn't stand you, you probably would still think you were his favorite patient. And you know, if I have a heart problem I want someone from a top school. If I have a pimple or want to plump up my forehead a bit, Will would be a pleasure to go to.
|
Scorpiomoon
Member
06-06-2002
| Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 1:58 pm
If they were as successful as they claim they would not need to be on BB7. Success does not equal fame. BB brings fame. It's one thing to have money, but it's another to be recognized on the street by total strangers. Also, these guys live in LA. Being business people who have also been on TV brings them one step closer to being on the same level as celeb business people and gives them an edge over business people who aren't famous. Will did not attend a top-notch medical school. So what? Only a minority of doctors in the world do get the opportunity to attend a top-notch medical school. Did you doctor? And if he/she didn't, does that mean they suck? Boogie strikes me as a wannabee who does not have a lot of money Ever heard of a guy named Warren Buffett? He's the wealthiest man in the US, but he, by no means, lives a lavish lifestyle. How do you know Mike doesn't take all his earnings and invest it back into his business with the hope that, down the road, his sacrifices will pay off in the future? If you were a serious doctor, would you enjoy lying, scheming and wounding others in a game like BB7? Are you serious? I would bet anything there are doctors who spend days trying to save the lives of children dying of cancer who come home and play video games in which they kill multiple people. Does that make them bad doctors? Haven't you ever played a game with someone and saw a side to them come out that doesn't normally? I'm sure there are tons of noble people out there who, when put in a competitive game situation, would be just as cunning and cut throat. I believe Dr. Will and Boogie are Myths In Their Own Minds While that's your opinion, there are facts to prove you wrong.
|
|
|
|