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Archive through August 16, 2012

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Big Brother ARCHIVES: Big Brother 14 - Part 3: Remember when the HGs understood the game?: Archive through August 16, 2012 users admin

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Leroy17
Member

08-01-2010

Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 7:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Leroy17 a private message Print Post    
It mystifies me that everyone goes along with whatever the HOH wants week after week. There was a time when the HGs understood that the HOH only has one power: nominating people. They do not have a right to declare who leaves and are utterly powerless to take immediate revenge if they don't get their way.

It also seems like they don't realize there's a secret ballot and everyone is free to vote as they like because it's impossible to be sure who voted for whom.

How did this come about? Why don't any of them want to think and play for themselves? Why did the obvious strategy of nominating the two people most likely to win every week get dropped?

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 8:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Good topic. I think that over the years Big Brother has evolved from being played as an individual game to being played as a team game. The start of this was Janelle's first season. The houseguests entered the game with a real life partner and inevitably alliances formed and the lines were drawn between two major groups. So then you end up in the ridiculous scenario of individual players taking a hit for their team or alliance. Which of course is a ridiculous way to play. We have seen a similar thing since then with various ready made teams created at the start of the game.

I don't know why people feel that the HOH has so much power. Once the veto ceremony ends the HOH is a lame duck with less power than any non-nominated houseguest. Plus the HOH can't even compete in the next competition.

The other thing that amazes me is how people who are on the edge of being eliminated often don't try to shake things up. At that point they should try anything and offer anything in order to get through the week. But so often we wait and wait and then they do nothing.

Wahmmy
Member

07-24-2005

Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 8:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wahmmy a private message Print Post    
They are all amnesia victims. Happens every year.

Bowl4sport
Member

07-21-2008

Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 10:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bowl4sport a private message Print Post    
I am always wondering why they believe they have to tell how they are voting and then follow through on that instead of voting however they want and lying about it after. It's like they think there are cameras watching them vote and the results will be broadcast. (oh, wait)

Well, not like the HGs will see the voting immediately.

Ark
Member

07-09-2001

Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 10:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ark a private message Print Post    
I think the first season that had potential partners coming in was Season 4 - The X Factor. Then there was Season 5 Project DNA.

Calimom3
Member

07-12-2007

Wednesday, August 15, 2012 - 10:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Calimom3 a private message Print Post    
They always use the word "respect" when they refer to the necessity of doing what the HoH wants... Crazy! But then we DID see what happened when Wil did tell Frank (& his co-HoH, Boogie!) that he would not make promises nor do their bidding...

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 7:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
BB is a 'team game' now because that's what Alison Grodner has turned it into.

I'm not sure WHY she'd want a team game, because it does make it boring and predictable.

I've wondered for years why they feel the need to 'respect the HOH's decision' since after the HOH has made the decision and veto is over, the HOH doesn't deserve any 'respect'.

Every year, I wish that they would just put 12 people in a house, and let people align organically. But AG needs to 'genetically modify' the house like Monsanto genetically modifies our food.

Only one page of overnight reading on the 'Live Feed Discussion' thread indicates the epic failure that BB has become.




Jeff33
Member

07-05-2009

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeff33 a private message Print Post    
Or when the HOH tells a nominee, you are not my target this week.. Its not the HOHs choice then, its all up the the voters.. The HOHs non-target can be the voters target..

Lillian
Member

07-29-2009

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:35 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lillian a private message Print Post    
Wholeheartedly agree that this "respect the HOH" stuff is crazy. Been saying it for several seasons now. The HOH can try to influence who's leaving by their nominations of course, but it's up to the voters who actually goes (unless of course they can't agree, which doesn't happen often, and the HOH then votes).

And so right that since they can't even compete in the next HOH, not only are they powerless after Monday's veto meeting, they are usually powerless for another 11 days (the duration of the next HOH, unless of course they win veto, which itself has limited power).

If there are hinky votes, it can usually be sorted out from the midway point in the game, but if it's done early on, who's going to know? Plus, if everyone voted how they pleased, then it would be a lot harder to hide your vote.

I think it's just typical groupthink - easier to let someone else make the decisions and blame them for the fallout then do it yourself. How many times have HGs said, "I was just going with what the house wanted, nothing personal." *rollseyes*

Wilsonatmd
Member

01-23-2001

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wilsonatmd a private message Print Post    
I think part of the problem is they're thinking too far ahead-

People think if they're HOH and don't go with what the house wants, they'll be in danger the following week- and then the voters think if they vote against what the HOH wants and then that person becomes HOH again a couple of weeks later, they'll be in danger- or that they might not vote for them if they make it to F2.

It's easier to vote with the house for about the first half of the season (all the pre-jury boots and maybe the first jury boot)- you don't want to make your move too early and antagonize a lot of people thus putting the odds against you, but if you leave it too long you won't have enough allies to reliably do what you want (or be in danger of alienating too many jury votes).

I think the best instance of something that worked was Hayden's season- they made the right moves at the right times, and had just enough allies (and one "useful idiot" in Brit, since she had no idea what the plan really was) for it to work out.

Caprica
Member

02-10-2007

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Caprica a private message Print Post    
I wish the twists every year would affect the game and how people play it instead of rigging it for specific players or setting up godawful showmances.

The giant 8 person alliances during the first few weeks has always irked the crap out of me.
Players wanting just an easy week also bores me to death.
These lazy scrubs just want the money handed to them with little or no work involved.

Big Brother needs to make it hard to form massive alliances.
There should be incentives to not throw comps.
The back door needs to be nailed shut.
America should be allowed to give immunity to players via internet votes.
Internet should dole out punishments as well.

Toolhound
Member

06-22-2007

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Toolhound a private message Print Post    
It is a house full of floaters. None think for themselves they just follow the new HOH up the stairs with lips puckered and ask who do I vote for and I won't put you or anyone you like up next week. They make new alliances every week and sometimes daily. This predictable game play or lack of game play is what is killing this show.

Lillian
Member

07-29-2009

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lillian a private message Print Post    
Wilson, I think the reasons the Brigade worked so well go beyond having Brit unknowingly help them:

* They each had side alliances so were able to influence way beyond the 4 without people realizing it
* They kept their eye on the prize - keeping them in the game and not worrying about dominating everything or who exactly went in what order
* They kept the personal out of it - ie Hayden being fine with letting his showmance get voted out
* They kept it secret
* They didn't try to get fancy with it by doing complicated back door strategies etc.

Lillian
Member

07-29-2009

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 8:59 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lillian a private message Print Post    
Caprica, I don't think America should have too much power - all the interesting and controversial people would get voted out, making it a boring game.

I do agree that the backdoor thing should be addressed. Not fair really. Perhaps the answer is that if the veto is used, then ONLY one of the players who had the chance to play for veto can be nominated by the HOH.

Also not big on throwing competitions, although it's a valid strategy. Hubby's thought is that the first person out of an HOH comp should be automatically nominated, and then the HOH chooses the second one.

Kminfinity
Member

06-29-2005

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kminfinity a private message Print Post    
How someone votes is a key to understanding their gameplay, strategies, and alliances. So if you are trying to 'float,' or trying to manage more than one alliance, your vote will give information. Which is why people instinctively want to stick with the House. Thus, the HoH has a vested interest BEFORE noms to target people s/he thinks the House will evict. Less blood on everyone's hands.

It's safe and boring, yes. But effective as long as your own personal game isn't compromised. that's where the issue is. Ian was right awhile ago to suggest a hinky vote. It makes sense to keep those outside of your alliance off-balance, so you need to weigh the risk of rocking the boat with the option of playing it safe.

The same kind of thing happens every season in Survivor now. There's always players who are the 4th-6th in an alliance's rankings who either don't realize it, or hope to manipulate the bigger alliance with a core coup later, etc. It SEEMS safer to go with the flow than make a big move. But Jeff Probst always says, "You can't win without making the big move."

Which is why Frank should have veto nommed Dan or even....BOOGIE!

Kminfinity
Member

06-29-2005

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kminfinity a private message Print Post    
Lillian those are GREAT game tweaks I'd love to see!

Wilsonatmd
Member

01-23-2001

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wilsonatmd a private message Print Post    
I think one idea for POV that might work would be a handicap system- instead of the odds being even that anyone could win, give the nominees a better chance to win- in exchange, instead of the HOH having to randomly draw his POV player, he gets to choose who he wants to play.

Say in a race to put 100 items in a container, the nominees get 10 already placed for them. If it's an elimination game, the nominees don't play in the first round. If it's a race against the clock, the nominees get a time advantage, etc. The trick is to make the advantage meaningful but not insurmountable if you played almost perfectly.

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
Can anyone explain why EVERYONE does not play in the veto comp?

Everyone plays for HOH, why not for veto? 'Backdoor' problem solved, right?

What am I missing?

Lillian
Member

07-29-2009

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lillian a private message Print Post    
Rosem that could work - but you'd get half the people throwing it so they don't have to take a stand if they win, no?

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 9:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
Good point, Lillian, but how about if the first 4 or 5 people out of the veto comp became have nots? Or, they give up their ability to play in the next HOH or veto comp.

There are ways to make the show better, it can be better. We need an entirely new producer and staff, though.

Or they could hire ME.



(or, actually they could hire a bunch of TVCHers, because they come up with better ideas for this show on a daily basis!)

Caprica
Member

02-10-2007

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Caprica a private message Print Post    
I watched the Glass House this year and don't care for the viewers power over the game. However some viewer impact puts a little fire under the feet of the players.
Players that stab their alliance in the back may either PO the public or excite them and being rewarded or punished by the viewers can definitely shake up the game.

Kminfinity
Member

06-29-2005

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kminfinity a private message Print Post    
Rosem they used to all play. I don't rememebr WHY it changed to just six.

In seasons 5 and 6, the three (HoH-Noms) got to PICK their playing partners, which allowed the pure form of Nakomis' six-fingered backdoor. She nominated two friends, and they picked three allies, so they KNEW an ally would win Veto, use it, and renom Jase with no chance to have played for Veto.

Nowadays, the "draw" supposedly gives everyone a CHANCE to play for veto so no one is truly backdoored. But the HG use the term to mean anyone who didn't play for veto and is then veto nommed. (Some clueless HG think a backdoor is any replacement nom.)

Jeff33
Member

07-05-2009

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jeff33 a private message Print Post    
I remember in BB6 All Stars I believe they started the only 6 playing in veto.. They did spin a wheel for a few weeks to see who would play and then they started drawing names.. I always had thought the drawing name thing was fixe when in one competition it was who would shave their heads and Chicken George & Kaysar did it.. However the 6 playing were all guys and one was alrady bald headed Marcellus.. When you had Janelle and Diane not playing.. I guess they alredy ahd in their minds that neither of them would shave their heads.

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:21 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
Not to go all 'Ian' on you, Jeff, but they had 6 playing in Nakomis' season, which I believe was Season 5.



ETA - had to check the BB Wiki page! Also saw that S3 was the only season that all the houseguests played in veto. Still don't know why it got changed.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Thursday, August 16, 2012 - 10:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
They all used to play but it was boring, especially in the early part of the season, because most of the people who won the POV had no real stake in using it and so it was hardly ever used. Then they came up with the idea of the nominees and HOH being able to each pick someone to play along with them. That worked great for a while until they figured out the backdoor strategy. That was when they moved on to the current method.