Author |
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Chief
Member
08-09-2009
| Sunday, July 31, 2011 - 8:47 pm
I thought it would be best for me to stay away from this thread ... but there are so many different points of view here that warrant good discussion. I'm glad we are all learning. Not to take us off the subject, but to use an analogy here ---> I usually get a little offended when famous people jump on top of an issue by becoming a spokesperson for it for personal reasons. (Hang in there with me.) Some do it out of kindness, but others are only willing to step up to the plate when something has happened to some person or some cause that they are close to. (e.g. A famous person who only lends their name/support to a health issue AFTER a member of their family was diagnosed with it.) I used that analogy in the sense that we all know VERY WELL that we could take care of one another a lot better than we do. Personally I think people are WELL AWARE that racism, bigotry, prejudice, etc are still happening every ... single ... day. Some fight the mere thought and insists these things don't even exist, and will fight tooth and nail with those who would suggest otherwise. Others simply take a back seat and say/do nothing, even if they witness it happening to others. But what most people WILL DO is act/react if it happens to them personally. Jimmer stated above: "It's always nothing personal - until it happens to you." I agree.
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Mummy35332
Member
09-09-2005
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 12:32 am
O.K., so my first grandbaby is back from being gone for a week to visit other Grandma, and then go farther away to be at her GreatGrandma's funeral. Thankfully she looks healthy. I just wanted to hold her. I was given baby in the car seat and then the bottle and did my best(not a clue how to bottle feed here). When she started to droll, I asked "Do you have her nappy?" I got the look. I have always called and heard called, burp cloths referred to as nappies. I always used cloth diapers for this purpose. Like pacifiers are binkies. I didn't ask this time because I just wanted a few minutes with baby. I think I need to have a sit down discussion with Little Momma (she is petite) and ask her to explain when she is offended even when I might not catch her response. Any insight into the use of the word nappie in referance to burp rag?
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-16-2003
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 12:52 am
nappie is abbrev for NAPKIN. like napkin to wipe face or hands . oh plz Lord, dont tell me that word is now going to be labelled as racist too? old school Diapers used to be Big Square cloths, very similar to a Formal Napkin. I think the younger people who are used to Bought diapers just dont understand
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Just_gail
Member
08-25-2007
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 1:12 am
Mummy, you've come up against a case of a perfectly good word getting tossed aside for no reason at all. You didn't say anything offensive. If a person (Little Momma) has a chip on their shoulder they will take offense over everything. I'm not expressing this well. I hope you get my meaning.
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Mummy35332
Member
09-09-2005
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 1:41 am
Dogdoc has a great post on 7/31 at 4:35 am. I am disappointed that I haven't seen any responses. This post is a wonderful example of what I am trying to get at. My first thought (beyond the challenge) Dog was everyone stays out of high crime areas. If the taxi and pizza guys are continualy robbed in those areas, is it really about race?, or CRIMEs (fear of physical danger) expected in those areas. OTOH... what happens to the non criminals in those areas that need taxi's and want pizza? They still get grouped into the majority, because of what has happened there in the past. That in turn can shape the non criminals perception of people of a different color. Yes, it happens in certain areas where the population is predominately Black, at least here. Years ago I took a wrong turn out of a venue in downtown Detroit. I could see an alternate freeway to get on and get home, but couldn't figure out how to get there. I swear I have the best MIL ever, but the woman cannot read a map. No incidents and driving the wrong way on a one way street, but we were able to go home without incident. I also know areas that are predominatley white with other minorites (probably the norm)that I would never choose to go into because of the crime rate, not because of prejudice. My neighborhood and my kids school is culutually diverse. It pains me when my kids come home and link a different culture as all the same. I correct them. But they see what they see. (mob mentality?) My heart goes out to those that are not criminals..yet..but may see it as the only way to get ahead. Back to phrases that aren't meant to be discriminate, but are often taken that way. Examples: And explainations. Please.
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Mummy35332
Member
09-09-2005
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 1:45 am
TY Sun and Gail.
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Lycanthrope
Member
09-19-2002
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 1:53 am
I've read every post in this thread. This is an interesting topic, and very important, IMO. I grew up going to school in an all-white(some hispanic) school district. I played sports, so I competed against all races. I was adopted, and later found out my heritage was Philipino, Irish, German, and Native American. Quite a mutt, I am. But I look caucasian, just a bit dark complected. I've never had a real problem with racism. But once I joined the real, working world, I met all kinds of people of all races and nationalities. I've found the funny thing is that there are differences in the races of the earth, and acknowlodging them is the first step in acceptance. I have made many friends over the years, and most of them are Latino or Black. Believe it or not, most of my Black friends absolutely hate the "African American" label, because they have never set foot in any African country. And my Latino friends would rather be referred to by their country of origin, such as Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, etc. I call all of my male friends "brother", regardless of race, from time to time. I only call certain women "sister", because referring to some of them as sister rejects them as possible dates/mates. I like to keep my options open. I am single so this is acceptable. I have no concept of "jimmies". That term for anything is foreign to me. I know I'm not sensitive to terms of prejudice, but my friends do not take offense if I inadvertently use an offensive term. They tell me why I shouldn't use it, and I'm good from then on. I agree that there is a difference between prejudice and bias. Everyone has bias, it's only human. But prejudice means to prejudge as a few people here have stated...one day we will eliminate prejudice, but probably not in my lifetime, unfortunately. In the context of dogs, I have raised two wonderfully lovable Rottweilers. Neither of them was violent in any way, except when I was perceived as being threatened. They were the perfect companions. I have no experience with Dobermans or Pit Bulls.
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Mummy35332
Member
09-09-2005
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 1:53 am
Sun I don't consider the lives of animals unimportant. I was just trying to get this thread back to being about people. Different doen't mean unimportant
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Mummy35332
Member
09-09-2005
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 3:42 am
I was thinking about the term Mutt in my last post and before that too. Unless we recently imigrated to the U.S.and are of a pure linage we are all Mutts. On my Dad's Mom's side I know there is English and Cheroke back in the 1800's. On my Mom's side I saw my Grandma's death certifiacte and her maiden name started with Mc (I was young)...so either Irish or Scottish. But since they were poor, who knows what they came out to get here from the south. On my Hubby's side, all we see is scandinavian, can't remember the country. No info after they arrived. The last name/spelling was changed many times over at Ellis island. My first child's bio Dad's Dad was German, but you should see her nose. When my kids have come home from school and as part of a school project askes where we decended from, I have told them Mutt. Of course the teachers wanted more info than we had. Heck its not any of thier business anyway. And I didn't know. We as Americans are a melting pot of almost all cultures. Now as we try to melt with more cultures we are pushed back for not understanding. It was easier for our ancestors to meld. We don't understand because other cultures coming in just don't explain things to us. How can secluding yourself and others of your same background and not letting anyone in help you to become part of this nation? Regarless if you have been here 400 years, or 20? Gotta let this post go.........Can't rework it anymore.
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Mummy35332
Member
09-09-2005
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 3:43 am
Spelling be darned......out.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 5:37 am
Nappy has been known for years as a word describing some african american hair. It is insulting. Mummy, I think you need to sit down with the baby's mom and tell her you are naive to black culture and need to be educated on terms that may be offensive. If you dont even know that nappy could have been offensive then I really think you need to talk to her asap....or she just may not bring the baby by that often.
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Chief
Member
08-09-2009
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 5:42 am
Hey Mummy, I'm catching up with new posts this morning and just read yours about the word "nappy." I can tell that you would never have meant that in any derogatory way. But this goes to show that when words have different meanings, we get different reactions until we clarify ourselves. It happens all the time. Lots of words have several meanings, depending on the context in which they are used. Let's just take one simple sounding word, spelled different ways, have different meanings, but sound the same: for, four, fore We have to get away from thinking that everyone refers to things the same way we do. Where I come from, I've never heard the word "nappy" used to describe a napkin or a burp cloth. The only context I've ever heard that word was being a derogatory comment about a black/mixed race person's kinky hair. So in this case you and I, because of where we come from, and because of the way that particular word was used by the people around us, would have been in a confusing situation, also. That doesn't mean we are bad people. It just means that one person took it one way, and the other person meant it another way. If ever in that situation, I wouldn't let it sit too long and fester, but have an open dialog so each gets what the other was really referring to. I also think that here in America, because we are a melting pot, we are bound to be exposed to learning more about different cultures. If I were in another country and asked about renting an apartment, I would know what I meant, but maybe people in that country call it a "flat" or an "american mansion," etc. Even within these United States we have differences, you know? Where I was raised in the south we asked for a "drink" if we were thirsty. My aunt, who lives in New York, will ask for a "pop" when she is thirsty. I said all that to say that we just have to be more accepting of other people and expand our horizons to learn more when we've made mistakes. This helps everyone to open up to others and not be insulted when people don't see things the same way we do. You and little momma will be fine and she'll respect you lots if you bring it up kindly. You sound like a great person with a giant heart!
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 7:16 am
Sometimes a nappie's just a nappie. Just like a cracker is a cracker and a jimmie, a jimmie. If you're going to take a word out of context just to get offended, you've got bigger problems than prejudice. Just MHO.
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Holly
Member
07-21-2001
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 8:02 am
A nappy is a well known word for a diaper. It is used as a noun. Nappy (when describing hair) is used as an adjective, as in nappy hair. So, if you ask someone, "where is her nappy?" isn't it clear you are NOT describing her hair, but rather asking about an object? Honest to God, it's that kind of PC nonsense and ridiculous offense taken that only cements racism, IMO. Remember the accountant who lost his city job because he used the word "niggardly" in a report? How utterly ridiculous do we get? A man, almost reaching retirement, loses his job because some idiots can't look up the meaning of a word? Yes, Chippy, sometimes a nappy, cracker and jimmie are just that.
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Just_gail
Member
08-25-2007
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 8:12 am
I agree with Chippy and Holly!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:13 am
As far as "nappy" goes, I've heard it used both ways. I think that the person hearing the word has to look at context and intent. From the context, it's totally obvious that Mummy wasn't talking about hair and I wouldn't remotely consider that possibility. The person hearing the word has to consider the person saying it and her intent. She must have an awfully hard time comprehending a sentence like "They're putting their clothes over there". How does she get through the day?
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:17 am
I have to ask... what's the "bad" meaning of jimmie? I didn't know it had one. Sprinkles, nickname for Jim/James/Jimmer (lol), or force something open... that's all I got.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:28 am
LOL - If you google "jimmie" the first entries are Jimmie Vaughan Jimmie Foxx Jimmie Johnson I've looked multiple pages into Google without finding anything remotely offensive or referencing sprinkles.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:37 am
FWIW, if you are asking people to consider the context of a certain word, it would only be fair for the speaker to also consider the context of the listener. People have been injured by words, by out and out hate speech, and by real discrimination - which most certainly exists today. So rather than just put all the onus on the listener to put your words in context, it might be beneficial to take into account the context of their lives. If you've been hurt by discrimination, it may just well be an involuntary reaction to certain words - bringing back the memory and pain of other acts of hatefulness. The bottom line, kindness goes both ways.
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Holly
Member
07-21-2001
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:38 am
Me too Chippy. I've only known it as a nickname for James or forcing something open. But then again, there's that cryptic song, "Jimmy cracked corn but I don't care." Maybe it's something to do with that?
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Holly
Member
07-21-2001
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:43 am
Karuuna, if you are completely ignorant of any racial connotations associated with the word (e.g. Mummy's situation with the word nappy), why would you consider the context of the listener? I doubt that anyone who's aware of possible racial connotations would use the word.
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:43 am
Or maybe his momma named him James and he cracked corn. WTH does that mean anyways. LMAO And thanks, Jimmer... I'm jimmie-ignorant.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:50 am
Holly, I'm just saying understanding goes both ways. If someone reacts badly when you have said something innocently, it's time to find out why - not just think there is something wrong with them. On the one hand, folks are asking that the listener be looking for context, and should know what you meant by context. Perhaps THEY don't know any other meaning of that word, other than a negative one. Why should we assume that the listener know all the possible meanings of a word, if the speaker doesn't? FWIW, I've never heard of a diaper or napkin being called a nappy. I have heard it used (often derogatorily) about a black person's hair. So the speaker would have gotten a "huh?" from me. FWIW, Jimmy has been used in a derogatory term in a number of ways (Jim Crow is a turncoat, jimmy hat is a condom, jimmy can mean penis-specfically a black man's penis, a Jimmy is a crow - a thieving and undesirable bird, there are many more). (Sorry, Jimmer! )
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 10:57 am
Wonderful to hear. But the point is that when we think of Jimmie Johnson we don't think of a penis. It's context. I do agree that it is important to be understanding that certain words may trigger things in other people so if they get upset the person who is offended and the person who inadvertently used a word that offended the other person have to try to understand each other. But the key is inadvertently. I'm not going to go out and change my name because of those other possible definitions (not that anyone calls me Jimmy anyway but they did when I was a little guy).
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 01, 2011 - 11:01 am
Jimmer, I would gather that depends on your life experience. I always cringe a little inside when I see a child named "Dick." There shouldn't be anything wrong with that name, but unfortunately, because it has received high use as a slang term for penis, that connotation is just 'there' for me. Again, 'context' matters. Not just the context in which the term is used, but also the context of a person's life environment.
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