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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 6:19 am
It is curious that none of the Professors have spouses. Many of the other adult characters are married or in relationships and in the later books the kids start to form relationships. Maybe JKR thought it would be a distraction from the main story.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 6:22 am
Jimmer wrote-Mummy, It's not like gay people have sex 24 hours a day (just like Heterosexual people don't have sex 24 hours a day). However, gay people do form loving relationships just the same as straight people. There are many many examples of loving relationships in Harry Potter between men and women where sex is not mentioned. So why would it be wrong to show the same relationship for two gay characters? It's not wrong. What is wrong is trying to keep gay relationships hidden or taboo....that will not serve children well, in the long run.
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Frogichik
Member
06-11-2002
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 6:59 am
they do have the attitude that they do not want to expose their children to the "gay lifestyle" while they are young. All parents, regardless of their sexual orientation should have the right to raise their children as they feel is right and moral. Most of those I know...who would be considered homophobic by some...really have a live and let live attitude. Some have expressed frustration at having homosexuality pushed into their lives by the media and public opinion and told they MUST change their beliefs and morals or else be labeled a hater, a homophobic, or ignorant person. They are just people who are like the rest of us...just trying to make sense of it all. I always say to change the word gay for black and see how any justification just sounds absurd. That's like saying I am OK with black people as long as my children aren't exposed to them and their black lifestyle.
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Frogichik
Member
06-11-2002
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:10 am
When my daughter was in grade one. I walked into her class after school to find her male teacher with a child on his lap. I asked him what the he was doing. He responded with just having some private teaching time. I told him it was not acceptable. Left the room and asked my daughter openly if she ever sat on his lap or was touched. She assured me she was not. This was hard because I had to ask her in a way that she would not think she did something wrong. I then went to the headmaster and reported what I saw. The teacher was reprimanded and dismissed at the end of the year. This was a very strict catholic school. Since this time my daughter has had many male teachers and all were great. Was the teacher touching the child inappropriately? From what you wrote I can't understand why you had such a negative reaction unless there was more to it. I went to a Montessori school that went to grade 5 and was family owned. I was friends with the owner's daughter and her dad and uncles were always around and played with the kids. Years later after all the McMartin pre-school hysteria happened they sold their chain of schools. Her dad said people were so paranoid about molestation he was even afraid to give a hug to a crying child. It's just sad to me that any affection from men to children is automatically sexualized.
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Wendy
Member
07-16-2009
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:17 am
All I am going to say on this subject is that I hope it has blown over by the time Jeff leaves the house and my heart goes out to his friends and family.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:20 am
For me I'm not as concerned with if a gay person deals with my child in school, camp, or a religious environment but my concern is with the individual behavior from any adult, not their sexual orientation. To isolate one group of people is obscene and inherently wrong. And will teach very wrong message to the “children”.
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Mummy35332
Member
09-09-2005
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:30 am
Internet is still spotty here. No offense to anyone in this thread. Not offended by the spoiler. I can't remember where the movies left off. I read the books. JKR had an epic story to tell. With the amount of discrimination out there would that story have been told with an openly gay character? Not a judgement either way. I'm just saying what I think Jeff was trying to say. Dumbledore was not written/published as a gay character. Yes, there were couples in the books, but there are many types of love in the books too. Harry loves Ron. Hermine loves Harry. Neither is sexual. None of the relationships written about has to take a parent to the point of explaining anything sexual. No childrens novel should take a parent there. The author has to pick the audience. She was already writing about witchcraft. She needed the book...books to sell. Don't rock to many boats. As we all can see from this thread a gay character in a book can rock boats.
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Tre34
Member
08-17-2005
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:35 am
Emphasizing heterosexuality, homosexuality, bi-sexuality, or asexuality individuals in the books or movies seem inappropriate. The books and movies of this fantasy is not the correct forum for this matter regardless of your viewpoints. The books and movies have so much to offer without this factor. If the author feels strongly for any point of view then with her clout and money she could certainly help any cause in the real world – she does not need the fantasy world to make her beliefs known.
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Biloxibelle
Member
12-21-2001
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:44 am
All I am going to say on this subject is that I hope it has blown over by the time Jeff leaves the house and my heart goes out to his friends and family. My heart goes out to my son, my ex-daughter-in-law, many members of this very board and all of our families. Not to mention all the other men, woman and their families that have been hurt by Jeff's way of thinking and people like him.
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Darclyte
Member
07-11-2005
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:45 am
While I don’t condone his remarks, I think it was done out of ignorance not malice. Jeff will be the first one to tell you that he isn’t well educated or that bright. I’m sure in the “blue collar” neighborhood where he grew up, calling people the “F-word” was common as is the point of view he expressed. Jeff later apologized to Kalia and told her he was wrong and she was right. He had the chance to think about it and seemed to realize that he was wrong. Jeff isn’t a politician, he’s a guy on a reality game show. It’s not like he runs a clinic that believes that gay people can be cured and Jordan is an elected official and they both support a radical minister who believes that all gay people should be locked up and/or executed. Now people like THAT are of a MUCH bigger concern.
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Jenjackso
Member
02-10-2009
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:50 am
My husband made a good point last night and it might be that Jeff was coming from a different perspective than any of us where thinking. When we do hear stories of pedophiles abusing young boys in leadership positions they are not straight. Maybe he was thinking in that way like Scout Leaders who have abused boys or Catholic priests who have abused boys. Maybe he wasn't stepping back and separating that, of course, not all gay men are pedophiles. We don't know yet what he was thinking, maybe he'll talk about it after the show is done so we can really know. Also, most people in my generation are telling their children that their friends might have two mommies or two daddies. Our kids are growing up so much more open-minded than we are given credit for as parents. Having said all of that, Jeff lives in America, is entitled to his opinion, and has the right to speak it. When we try to silence dissent then we begin to fail as a nation, which I already think has started.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:52 am
I don't think that the storyline would have been enhanced at all if we explored the various Hogwarts teachers and headmaster's sexuality. What would have been the point? I don't know what type of relationships any of the teachers at Hogwarts had, and I really don't care to know. That would have added nothing to the story for me. I didn't realize they were all single until someone mentioned it above (well, except for that one ghost and his cat...now THAT was a strange relationship).
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Biloxibelle
Member
12-21-2001
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:53 am
Emphasizing heterosexuality, homosexuality, bi-sexuality, or asexuality individuals in the books or movies seem inappropriate. It only seems inappropriate because it is made to seem inappropriate. There needs to come a time when Mr. Dumbledore going home to Mr. Dumbledore is just as acceptable as going home to Mrs. Dumbledore. Why is it wrong for that to introduced in children's books and to children?
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Shenanagon
Member
07-28-2009
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:54 am
Ya I'll be real glad to see the end of this as a topic always at the top of one of my favorite boards and shows Big Brother. It's eviction day and I'm pumped. I'm dying to know who is going to vote out who and I hope I see all of you discussing those topics as passionately as this one has gotten. So many of you seem very emotional about this issue and I just hope that this topic doesn't begin to outshine the reason we all come here to view, read and share opinions on one of our favorite reality shows. Come on people I could use another poster in the Live Feed section and it's Eviction Day!!!
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Caprica
Member
02-10-2007
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 8:34 am
Jeff was implying that male homosexuals are pedophiles. That is just plain not true. I respect peoples opinions but making false statements and acting like they are true does not make them fact. I do not respect people that voice an opinion and have no proof to back it up. There is a woman running for President that believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Just cus she thinks it don't make it so.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 8:37 am
For some reason, when some people think about gay people they automatically think about sex. Gay relationships are not all about sex anymore than heterosexual relationships are all about sex. Think about the amount of time you spend with your partner? How much of that time is devoted to sex? If they can show loving relationships between a man and a woman without bringing sex into it then it is equally easy to show a loving relationship between a man and a man without bringing sex into it. It would add no more sex to Harry Potter than Ron's Mom and Dad's marriage added sex to Harry Potter. Gay men are no more likely to be pedophiles than straight men (in fact, I read somewhere that they are less likely). Jeff is perpetuating an inaccurate hurtful stereotype.
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Caprica
Member
02-10-2007
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 8:45 am
Those defending Jeff's opinion should also know that the majority of pedophiles are straight men. Even the ones that abuse boys. These false beliefs about gay people all being sexually abused as children are being spread by anti-gay therapists.
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Frogichik
Member
06-11-2002
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 8:59 am
THANK YOU Caprica I was going to say the exact thing about the pedophiles. I think SanFran post the other day that about 85% of pedophiles are heterosexual.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 8:59 am
Jeff was wrong in what he said, that much is clear. The question to me is always *why* he said what he did. The story I related pages ago (about a friend of mine who once expressed a similar sentiment to me, and then finally related that he had been molested as a boy) was to simply say that sometimes we have *wrong* ideas about things because of something in ourselves that hasn't been healed. I have no idea what Jeff's history is, was not trying to imply that he had been molested. I am simply saying that while it is important to correct his misconceptions, it's also important to treat him as a human being as well - and not just an object of derision.
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Caprica
Member
02-10-2007
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 9:06 am
I don't want to run Jeff out on a rail but I'm not going to make excuses for him either. I will watch him this season and see how he plays the game and decide then if I am a fan or not. He should however watch the anti-gay talk because he is getting my bad side,not that I have any power other than knocking him on the internet.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 10:42 am
"There are many many examples of loving relationships in Harry Potter between men and women where sex is not mentioned. So why would it be wrong to show the same relationship for two gay characters? " Exactly! What frustrates me is that all too often, some people will think of straight relationships in the context of love and marriage and family, but when it comes to gay relationships, they think of a sex act and suddenly the idea of love and family is gone from the picture. We are more that a sex act, just like straight people are more than a sex act. We love, we work, we are community oriented and we pay taxes. We are teachers, politicians, clergy, farmers, blue collar workers, business owners, and some of us are your fathers, your mothers, your children, your aunts and uncles and cousins, your neighbors, and your best friends. Please don't lump us all into one "lifestyle", whatever that means. Just because you love one person instead of another, it doesn't mean you have a different "lifestyle". Some gay people are celibate and some are married with kids and some are homeless and some are billionaires. How can gay people be considered to all live the same "lifestyle"? Do straight soccer moms and straight crackhead prostitutes share the same "lifestyle"? Of course not. Why is it okay to show loving straight couples in a non-sexualized content but then balk at showing a loving same sex couple in a non-sexualized context? WHY is that "inappropriate"?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 10:46 am
"None of the relationships written about has to take a parent to the point of explaining anything sexual. No childrens novel should take a parent there. " No relationships between two men or two women "has to take a parent to the point of explaining anything sexual" either.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 10:56 am
Karuuna very well said.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 11:02 am
"Having said all of that, Jeff lives in America, is entitled to his opinion, and has the right to speak it. When we try to silence dissent then we begin to fail as a nation, which I already think has started." No one is trying to "silence" him. I took his confounding remarks as an opportunity to bring about discussion and understanding of the issue with people here because I can't have a personal discussion with Jeff. Jeff's remarks sparked an open discussion that many people don't address except when it pertains to BB.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-16-2003
| Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 11:06 am
Her dad said people were so paranoid about molestation he was even afraid to give a hug to a crying child. It's just sad to me that any affection from men to children is automatically sexualized. oh a great example spotlighting my point about society norms. Why would a strange man have 'affection' for a child not his and want to body hug ? a pat on the back or holding hand to confort can work too. as adults we know what is right and wrong, i'm female and I wouldnt put myself in a position to be misinterpreted BUT then again, we had this laid out clearly as part of my job. We had police checks for all staff but some of the guys were nervous when working alone. ALL it takes is misinterpretation of a situation and your career is shot. so basically, why would a man choose to Hug a child under his care when its NOT his child, NOT a relative and He HASNT got a personal relationship with family or that child? and that goes for women as well. and wow am i off topic!! nothing to do with gay OR jeff LOL HEY and speaking of teachers having spouses, it seems to me that in the Olden days school teachers were expected to be SINGLE. Schoolmarms
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