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Archive through September 11, 2010

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Big Brother USA ARCHIVES: Big Brother 12 - Part 5: Current Live Feed Discussion (ARCHIVES): September 11th Archive: Archive through September 11, 2010 users admin

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Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 1:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Lost just saw your post and ITA. I think you actually described Hayden very well. He threw comps the early half and later on when he had to he dug down and kept winning.

I never said that I felt Enzo jumped off on purpose. I just think he convinced himself that when he had to he would win. But he never dug down and did the work to make himself win. I know when they showed the comp instead of focusing on it, he was shouting and whooping etc. Typically with those types of BB endurances you MUST keep your focus or lose.

So while I don't the he lost because he wanted to, I think he didn't put all his energy and mindset into the task at hand which helped result in his early exit. Makes sense to me!

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Kar just read your post. I actually agree with most of it. BUT I do think that most of the times where I heard Enzo being self-depricating, it wasn't that he was really berating himself. He was IMHO saying things to appear less of a threat to other HG. So I feel that was game strategy not how he really feels about himself.

Also, there are entire groups of folks who are beyond confident in themselves. I've actually often said it's a mark of most pro-athletes I have known (and I've known MANY). They truly believe they ARE the best. And in many cases they actually are lolol. But they have the goods to live up to it. Not one of them have low self-esteem. So I think there can be more than just one way to look at folks who think highly of themselves and boast etc.

Jag2000
Member

07-01-2009

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jag2000 a private message Print Post    
I have some questions about the last HOH..WE did
not actually see how long they were on the vines
and how many times they hit the wall and how much
water fell on them. All the other physical HOH's
we have seen after the show ends on R/P, not this
one. Do we really know how long they were up there? I don't believe anything about BB unless
I see it with my own eyes or someone else sees it
and reports it on a BB site.

Indybarb
Member

06-25-2005

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Indybarb a private message Print Post    
OK Thomas (Jag) :-)

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Lurk, he wasn't just self-deprecating, he was often asking for reassurance. I just don't think Enzo comes across as thinking he is "all that", like the pro athletes you are describing. In fact, to me, he comes across as someone who does not see himself as personally successful, so he is overemphasizing this one success he has had in the BB game. That's partly what he became so very deflated when he lost both HOH parts. Much like Britney, he saw it as yet another time when he came close, and then failed to finish it.

I don't think comparing Enzo to a pro athlete is an apt comparison. Pro athletes hold records and salaries to validate their abilities, for one thing - they are often over-validated, leading to an inflated and unhealthy self esteem-- as well as a transient one, based on a single attribute - rather than a multi-faceted sense of self. That's a different problem, and not one that I see that Enzo has at all.

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Kar, I wasn't comparing Enzo to a pro-athlete (heavens NO lololol). I was just showing how one can toot their own horn, brag etc and not neccessarily have low self-esteem.

And what I've found interesting is I met many of the pro-athletes BEFORE they were pro's and made the big bux, and their attitude's were firmly in place already.

My main point is we don't really know Enzo or what makes him tick. And I for one am not convinced he is suffering from low self-esteem. After all, it wasn't until he took to his bed with this hissy fit that it even really was discussed here. All summer I don't recall folks saying that about him.

And sure he asked for reasurance....ie you are gonna take me right? Again more gameplay IMHO!!!

LOL always amuses me how every year we all watch the same thing yet manage to see things so differently when all of us get to comparing views. That's itself would make an interesting psychological topic eh??!! :-)

Lajonesin
Member

03-22-2008

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lajonesin a private message Print Post    
I have a degree in Psychology and for what it's worth, Ego and Esteem or two separate functions and are often confused.

When we talk incessantly about ourselves and show no interest in others that comes from ego. A person with healthy self esteem does not need to be the center of attention at all times.

When we are expressing ego, we are spectacularly lacking in compassion. We judge harshly, show no empathy, and find fault easily. When we are expressing healthy self esteem, we are able to be compassionate. We are able to understand the viewpoints of others and have a genuine interest in them.

When we are being egotistical, we believe we know everything about everything and that we are right about everything we "know". We believe that the opinions of others are "stupid", ill-advised and just plain wrong. When we are coming from healthy self esteem, we are willing to hear the opinions of others and we're able to entertain the notion that their opinion is their opinion and we don't have to agree. Both people can be right (and OK).

There is a huge difference between ego and healthy self esteem. The most significant thing is that when we are coming from ego, it is obvious to everyone but us! LOL

Take what you will from that. :-)

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Laj, interesting post. Not totally sure how to appy it to Enzo but PHEW, since I have "agreed to disagree" (or tried to) numerous times today, glad to hear my self esteem is deemed healthy LOLOL. Now if only I could do something bout my damn back!!!

Jmm
Moderator

08-15-2002

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jmm a private message Print Post    
Lurk, Do I need to "banish" you for another hour of hot tub soaking?

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Laj, I'm probably old school, but when I got my degree, Ego was healthy; and not at all what you are describing. :-) It is the rational part of your mind that mediates your unhealthy desires.

So, again, we can all talk about these things however we wish, but frankly I don't think we are using the terms equally, degreed or not.

Lurk, FWIW, Enzo was quite clear that he thought Hayden would win the whole thing, and he's thought that for weeks now. That's not unhealthy self esteem, that was rational. :-)

And he asked for reassurance about a lot of things, non game related.

Enzo's not a game player in that way. He is a stream of consciousness kind of guy, saying whatever comes into his mind at the moment, and often lacking appropriate filters. Not seeing him as manipulative or conniving, he even sucks at poker. :-)

Lajonesin
Member

03-22-2008

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lajonesin a private message Print Post    
LOL Lurk! Yes, people who allow others to have their opinions have healthy self esteem, which is not the same as inflated or 'high' self esteem. Those people are prone to ego threats and often retaliate horribly. (Think Rachel)

Enzo has shown signs of healthy self esteem. He brags incessantly, but not at the purposeful expense of others. He is perfectly okay with making fun of himself and his circumstances without having to find a scapegoat to blame. He worries that he is getting fat but not to the degree that he stops eating or bashes others who may appear to be in better shape than he. He is just a funny guy that uses humor to deflect his disappointment and sometimes, his anger. He says angry things, but never intends to act upon them. It's all bluster. I think he is just genuinely upset that he isn't likely to win it all and is moping around in an artificial environment where there is nothing to do but mull over the loss. He'll be fine.

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
Agree Laj...I actually have a really hard time explaining things and should have said that he has the need for constant attention and extreme fear of and reaction to failure...thanks for the breakdown...no pun intended.

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
I think he will be fine too...once he gets out of the house and sees his family is proud of him and not disappointed.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Having a shot at $500,000 and realizing that you have probably missed it and then having to sit around for a week with nothing to do while missing your friends and family and I can see why Enzo isn't totally chipper at this point.

Lajonesin
Member

03-22-2008

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lajonesin a private message Print Post    
FWIW, I was not describing Enzo in my first post, just explaining the jargon and how ego vs esteem can be looked at.

Karuuna, you are correct. Ego can be a healthy response to perceived threats but in the context of what we were debating, I was referring to the inflated ego or sense of superiority.

Muffin
Member

08-29-2007

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Muffin a private message Print Post    
Lag, very interesting post. Like Lurk, I learned that my self esteem is healthy. But.....I kind of got lost in the explanation, LOL. In regards to Enzo what does this mean?

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
LOL Jmm thanks maybe in a little bit...I plan to take another soak in a bit (have tub almost half filled...I have a HUGE one so one must plan these things hehe). I'm trying to hit a bit closer to twilight as it's more relaxing then. But um thanks for the offer....I think LOLOL

Kar, I've seen both SOME of what you've seen and also what I've seen re:Enzo. IE I've seen him sit and repeatedly say to Brit and Lane when they were the only ones left in the house how Hayden will win the whole thing yadda yadda. Now true this is fact lol BUT I totally feel he was planting those seeds in hopes of them taking him over Hayden if that situation arose. Same way Brit repeatedly said how Enzo will win the whole thing at the end. She never believed that, and her DR confirmed that. She simply wanted to make THEM believe it so they keep/take her.

So while we can all play backseat shrinks while we watch the Hamsters, and that totally is part of the fun of it all, I think we also have to allow for some of what is said and done being nothing more than gameplay and strategy.

What I find funny about this long debate is how much Enzo has bored me, and how I honestly feel that this is just FAR too much talk about someone I have so little interest in lolol

Lajonesin
Member

03-22-2008

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lajonesin a private message Print Post    
Muffin, if you read up a piece, I spoke about Enzo in particular. What is dangerous is assuming I 'know' him at all and could give an accurate read on his personality. Just going by what I have seen. I am probably no more right or wrong than anyone else here. LOL

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Heh, quintessential Enzo is the night that Hayden gave him a haircut. It was a nonstop flow of questions/answers/compliments and cuts. It looks good! It looks like shit! Great job, thanks Hayden! Wait, what is this thing? It looks terrible! I look good. I look like shit. On and on for an hour or so. One of the funniest things I've seen, and it's just who Enzo is. Completely genuine in the moment, like it or not.

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
No joke Jimmer...what a letdown...the only thing I find wrong with his actions is he put down Ragan and Britney for doing the same thing...and now he is doing it...no one knows what it feels like to be in that house, except the houseguests that are there. I can't imagine being in there and having nothing to do for all this time...and no contact with friends and fam and having to be in there with people I wouldn't like...worse than office politics.

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Muffin LOL we caught the key details...we BOTH knew how to respectfully agree to disagree, then promptly moved on to important things, like planning a vacation at BB's expense, for all of us LOLOL

Lajonesin
Member

03-22-2008

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lajonesin a private message Print Post    
Okay....off to get my hairs cut. Hope I turn out looking better than Enzo. LOL

Lajonesin
Member

03-22-2008

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lajonesin a private message Print Post    
LOL If I haven't said it lately, I adore you Lurk! Always bringing the funny. :-)

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
Wow...I agreed to disagree also...and said no offense...okay...I see how it is...

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 2:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Awww Laj adore you right back!!!

And while I'm sure it will be lovely, pretty much a badly mowed lawn would look better than Enzo's hair, so you may want to set you sights a wee bit higher hun LOLOL. See you laterz!