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Russell! What are you doing?

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Big Brother ARCHIVES: Big Brother 11 - Part 7: Outside The House: Russell! What are you doing? users admin

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Archive through August 13, 2009Caprica25 08-13-09  6:07 pm
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Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 7:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spunky a private message Print Post    
I don't agree that Russell should keep calm and patient until POV ceremony. There are other ways to prevent what Jeff wants to do to him.
I feel that if he waits after the "fait accompli" (since we're in the French mode with this BB, like coup d'etat") it will really be too late for him. He has to campaign for him to stay now, before Monday. What's the use venting and yelling at Jeff afterwards? He will only make Jeff and Jordan feel they were right.
Russell should present the situation to him in a very clear way: Jeff, first of all, you made us all swear on our families to stick to F4 and now you're the one who's breaking tht promise. You know that I want Kevin out and then Nat out, why would I come after you? We agreed that after F4 we were on our own, so why can't you be man enough to fight a decent battle?
If I am gone, Nat and Kevin have all the jury votes now, and if you or Jordan are F2 with Michelle, guess who's going to get our votes? Even with America giving it to Jordan or you, you'd still lose...

Would he have the guts to do this before POV ceremony, I don't think so, but I certainly would if I were in his place. At least I would have tried everything to prevent going on the block. Afterwards, all the yelling and venting will be useless.

Stormie
Member

03-01-2007

Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 11:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stormie a private message Print Post    
I agree he needs to campaign to J/J, not just wait until the POV ceremony. It's if Jeff puts him up that I think his only chance is votes, but like someone mentioned, it's unlikely K/N would give him theirs. He can't, though, just come out and say you are backdooring me, then Jeff might use it against him in some way, he has to approach Jeff in a round about way.

Russell and Michelle have been, though, talking about K/N lying and that they (Michelle and Russell) did not stay with the original group, they put Ronnie and Chima up, etc. I am not sure if they mentioned the swearing on families, though, I wonder if Jeff would care. They've been talking and talking, I hope it works, but both Russell and Michelle still seem to understand that J/J are treating them differently (again) and that one of them, likely Russell, will be backdoored.

Chere
Member

08-10-2005

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:04 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chere a private message Print Post    
I don't know what Russell can do to save himself this week, but much of the reason why he's in this position is because of his shadiness for most of the season. If Russell had planted himself firmly in one alliance he would not be an easy target for the house to rally around to vote out.

When Russell was saved by the coup, he had a golden opportunity to build an alliance with Jeff. Unfortunately Russell tried to have his cake and eat it too by voting for Jessie to stay. Once again, Russell refused to pick a side and now that his back is against the wall he expects Jeff to remain loyal to him when it was obvious he had no real loyalty to Jeff.

Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Watching2 a private message Print Post    
I don't know. How many times has Russell avoided being "back doored" this season? I have a feeling Jeff won't go through with it, no matter what he's saying now. If he does, maybe it will be better for Jeff since Russell could do the same thing to him if he gets HOH?? It's so hard to tell. What I find interesting is how Russell started out as one of the HGs people really didn't like. Now there's been a change and people are livid he might get voted out. And we said the Hgs were fickle! LOL

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
chere... the thing is, Jeff wasn't so much using the Coup to SAVE Russell, but rather to get Jesse out. Russell just got the benefit.

Chere
Member

08-10-2005

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chere a private message Print Post    
I don't understand the new found Russell love either. He has always been shady. He picked on hgs he perceived weaker than him (Jeff/wk 1, Michele, Chima). It has been obvious from very early in the game that he was playing all sides.

Even when he was nominated by Chima, no one was going out of their way to save him. If the CDT was not in play that week, I don't think JJM would have stuck out their neck to save him from eviction. The week before he had ostracized Michele and J/J would have chosen to go along with the house because they were still considered outcasts at the time.

So once again, I don't understand where all this Russell is a saint love is coming from because he has played the worst game of everyone left in the house.

Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Watching2 a private message Print Post    
LOL Chere - I've been wondering when Russell became a saint, too! I don't understand it really.

Chere
Member

08-10-2005

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:35 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chere a private message Print Post    
Russell just got the benefit.

Exactly. So why did Russell feel the need to kick a gift horse in the mouth? He got a second chance to play the game, but he still chose the side that wanted him out. Don't get me wrong, if Jessie had the third vote to stay, Russell would have made a great game move. But his desire to be on Jessie's good side caused him to not realize Jessie was the obvious boot and that move ultimately cost him his second chance game.

Chewpito
Member

01-04-2004

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chewpito a private message Print Post    
Im not sure its so much Russel love, but Natalie hate...I just want her gone....lol

Stormie
Member

03-01-2007

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stormie a private message Print Post    
Russell was under no obligation to do what Jeff wanted and evict Jessie. Jeff didn't use the coup for him, he used it bc he wanted Jessie out. Anyone could have been on the block, they would have been taken off.

Jeff and Russell didn't instantly align, Russell still had to do what was best for himself. I think he kept his word to Jessie for jury votes, but also had the right to keep what he was doing close to the vest, whatever it was, until he felt he needed to use it. And when the F4 deal happened, all cards seemed to be on the table, including that vote.

While Jeff keeps bringing up the Jessie vote, maybe to set Russell off and give himself and excuse to backdoor him, who knows, he is wheeling and dealing with Natalie and Kevin; Kevin also voted to keep Jessie, I guess that was okay.

Jeff seems to expect everyone to do what he wants to push himself further in the game, then do nothing for themselves. Jeff has to make nice too, to the other players, he can't just threaten to evict everyone and then expect them to abide by his wishes, no one will protect him, first chance they get, he's gone. Maybe he never saw Season 3, lol.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 1:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
The problem seems to be that by now, Russell and Michele can say anything.. like "your name is spelled 'Jeff'" and Jeff would be suspicious, whereas Natalie and Kevin could tell him his name is Jane and he might believe them. Crazy times.

And just now watching the show and Jeff seems to credit Kevin with his win but I would think that Russell putting Kevin on a one minute hold was ignored by Jeff completely. Not only did Russell handicap the front runner (If Kevin had had an entire minute more, I think he'd have definitely beaten Jeff since Jeff won by one can) AND Russell once again proved himself by not blocking Jeff and handicapping Kevin!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 6:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I agree that it's amazing how Jeff has conveniently ignored the fact that Russell blocked Kevin and effectively gave the HOH to Jeff.

I think Russell's biggest problem is Michele. I like Michele as a person but she simply won't give a straight answer to any question whatsoever. She waffles and waffles and doesn't remember and refuses to answer. So whenever Russell and Michele go to talk to Jeff and Jordan, all Michele ends up doing is hurting Russell. Russell says something with conviction and Michele then waffles around and says she isn't sure and maybe it happened that way and it makes Russell look like a liar. Michele is a terrible alliance partner.

Askme_who_ur
Member

08-19-2006

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 7:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Askme_who_ur a private message Print Post    
I have noticed that about Michelle as well. Russell and Michelle have a conversation then she doesn't remember it? I don't have a hardcore position this year either way on the players, like years past, but Russell has been thrust into an alliance with Michelle. She has NEVER backed him up, from him repeating what Michelle said to him when he was HOH to any conversation after.

Michelle's gameplay, I believe, is to get to the end and say I have never lied to anyone. And that maybe true because she has never taken a stand on anything.

Russell has been shady and not really given the Jeff the answers he has been looking for.

Correct me if I am wrong, and I know someone will, doesn't the game include doing what you need to do to get yourself to the end? Russell ! What are you doing? Tell Jeff what he wants to hear and say it with conviction, otherwise you will have a Jesse connection sooner than later.




Note: This editorial in no way endorses Russell. It's more of a commentary than a supportive endorsement.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 7:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spunky a private message Print Post    
What Jeff was complaining about the HOH comp that Russell kept shaking the railings and couldn't aim properly, of course he never appreciated the fact that Russell slowed down Kevin. All he remembers is Russell making it tougher for him to aim.

About Michelle, I agree that she is not very effective in reassuring JJ that Russell wants F4 but she's also trying to protect herself, and what a great intuition, since Jordan already hinted at Jeff, maybe we should get rid of Michelle...

So Michelle and Russell are practically walking on eggshells and have to be very very careful until POV ceremony, meanwhile Nat and Kevin can plot Jeff's demise to no end.

One thing I'm really surprised, Russell hasn't won when he needed to. Michelle did win VETO twice I believe and saved herself. Russell however wasn't so great at comps lately and if you don't save yourself in this game and you can't bargain your way out of the block, well, you lose. JJ insisting Russell is a strong competitor is a lame excuse, it's their paranoia.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 7:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
That's a good point. They keep going on about how Russell is a strong competitor but maybe it's mostly image. He hasn't proven himself to be particularly strong with the one exception of the endurance challenge.

If she is going to attempt it, the "I don't lie defense" probably won't work for Michele at the end. It generally just antagonizes the jury.

Kappy
Member

06-29-2002

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 7:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kappy a private message Print Post    
I agree with Spunky that Russ seems to have lost his mojo lately at comps but I also felt that he and Michele played it low key because they thought they were safe for F4 so why not wait until next week to win HOH.

As for dealing with Jeff, I really don't think it's Russell's fault. Russell is not backing out of the F4, he was simply planning for F2 after that. Meanwhile, Jeff seems to feel that everyone should accept that he's taking Jordan to F2 and they should accept promising to take him to F2 if that doesn't work out. Jeff is not being realistic and Russ is doing his darndest to be polite about it.

Meanwhile, Russ has to listen to Nat laugh with glee because he and she know exactly what's about to happen next week. I feel for the guy right now.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 8:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
Im not sure its so much Russel love, but Natalie hate...I just want her gone....lol
ITA 100% Chewi! :-) Sadly, I think she'll win if she's not booted pronto. :-( Do you think she MIGHT shower for the final show, at least?

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 5:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, ITA! She IS a horrible partner and has become his downfall, basically the downfall of J/J and R! If she would have stood up for Russell they wouldnt have believe Nat and Kev.

I really wish I could be there when Jeff realizes he was totally played.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 1:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spunky a private message Print Post    
I know Russ is angry but I don't think he should have started another row with Jeff, it will look worse for him this time.

Okay, he doesn't have nothing to lose at this point but he's trying to make a point, and he's right when he says the others are just too afraid to say anything in front of Jeff. He can have F2 with Jordan but the others can't.
That's his reasoning, but now it's just too late.

Stormie
Member

03-01-2007

Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 4:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stormie a private message Print Post    
I don't know why he did that either, maybe he'll tell Julie, I do think it might have been for Jeff though, some bravado, etc. At this point Russell knows Natalie's plan, so, I just think it might have been to make Jeff look and feel more stupid when he finds out what Natalie is doing. I'm not condoning it, though, it seems like waisted energy.

Shenanagon
Member

07-28-2009

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Shenanagon a private message Print Post    
Jeff wanted Russ gone as soon as the K/N lie was told to him. Jeff saying it's because Russ had a final2 with Michelle is horse pucky. Jeff doesn't want to reveal it was Kevin who told him because Jeff knows Russ would just rage and scream at Kev then scream at Mich and he'd never hear the truth. Russ (minus the screaming) likely would have been one of my favorites. IF he could have contained his rages it would have been a very exciting final few shows with him and Jeff going toe to toe to the end.

Stormie
Member

03-01-2007

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 3:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stormie a private message Print Post    
Jeff doesn't care if Russell yell's at him, he yell's right back. Jeff aligned with Russell to get Natalie and Kevin out, Jeff blew all that. Jeff did not go to Russell initially and tell him what was going on, about a week later at the "hashout" Jeff asked Russell why he was going after Jeff before F4, both Jordan and Jeff kept saying "people" were saying that. Russell told Jeff that that was not true and kept asking Jeff what would benefit him in doing that--no answer from Jeff.

Russell has a right to be angry, Jeff is not innocent and he's the one who set this ball in motion.

Oregonguy
Member

02-12-2006

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 3:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Oregonguy a private message Print Post    
Approx 1hr 35min and Russ is GONE!!!!

Keldogg
Member

08-12-2005

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 3:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Keldogg a private message Print Post    
The trouble with so many of these HG's is that they have good plans in place. Then they get some power, and their plans go out the window, and they go with some new, not very wise plan. Why do they do this? If Jeff would have just stuck to the plan, not only would he be in a better position, but he would have saved himself a whole lotta stress.

Shenanagon
Member

07-28-2009

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 4:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Shenanagon a private message Print Post    
hi Stormie we see this situation differently. In my opinion the lie Kev and Nat began worked beautifully. It played on Jeff's distrust then Michelle confirming it was the catalyst that set Jeff into wanting Russ out because he believed that Russ would backdoor him. I posted many times I wish Russ and Jeff had sat down and aired out all the lies/suspicions each had. I hated to see the LML (last minute lie) operation be successful. I understand Russ being angry and I didn't want Jeff to backdoor him but I do understand why Jeff distrusted him. Michelle confirmed it and Kevin proposed LML brilliantly when he approached Jeff. Kudos to Nat Kev they pulled it off and broke up what should have been a very strong final 4. I imagine both Jeff and Russ will, weeks from now and after watching the show, both kick themselves.

In regards to the yelling, a person can't get into 4 raging screaming matches and not expect someone to yell back. It gets old, boring, tired and no one wants to be bullied. If Russ had kept his cool, I believe this could have been fixed or at least not gotten to this sorry state where the two aren't speaking. MHO.

Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 4:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Curlyq a private message Print Post    
Maybe I'm just remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that when Kevin told that lie to Jeff, Jeff responded by saying they were thinking of getting rid of Russell anyway and this story just confirmed it for him. With or without the lie, I think Jeff would've put Russell up regardless. He and Jordan had only intended to keep Michele and Russell around for as long as they needed them. Hadn't they often spoke of getting rid of one or the other when they were no longer needed?

Oregonguy
Member

02-12-2006

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 5:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Oregonguy a private message Print Post    
quit bringing logic into in curlyq!

Stormie
Member

03-01-2007

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 5:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stormie a private message Print Post    
Shenan, I could be wrong, but this is what I recall, Russell was the target after Chima, but the plans changed when she left; I don't recall them saying they'd backdoor him, though. The F4 deal was made and they all wanted to get out N/K/L, then it was up for grabs, but likely J/J wanted Russell to go next. The plan was underway and Jordan put up L/N, wanting Natalie to go next.

Russell was not going to backdoor Jeff, that's just a result of the lie Kevin told him. The lie was to save L/N that week and K/L/N in future weeks, knowing they were all the current targets--they wanted to put the target on M/R. It didn't save Lydia, but it worked for future weeks. Once Jeff bought the lie, his focus changed to get Russell out, likely thinking before he gets him.

Had Jeff stuck to the original plan, Natalie would be gone and J/J/M/R would only have had to worry about Lydia and Kevin. Jeff blew it and now has made a huge mistake, he doesn't understand that Natalie is the one who is gunning for him.

What555456
Member

06-14-2005

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 5:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send What555456 a private message Print Post    
And of course, the reason Jeff was/has turned on Russ is mainly because of Jordan. And why is Jordan against him? For the reason she keeps harping on...Russ won $10,000 and Jordan is filled with uncontrollable envy and thus is angry about it and can't let it go.

All the other explanations about lies and mistrust and all of that only worked because Jordan was against Russ because of the money and Jeff listened to Jordan.

Shenanagon
Member

07-28-2009

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 5:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Shenanagon a private message Print Post    
gosh I'm not sure now, I could be wrong. I didn't think they wanted Russ out until the LML went into motion and they talked with Michelle. I know paranoia was ruling their decisions that's for sure. I wish it was Nat going tonight. You're right about Nat gunning for him I still don't get why J/J are trusting N/K so much it really is sad watching them spill all their plans to those two. I hate to say it but N/K are playing the best game in regards to saving themselves this week and it pains me to see Russ and Jeff hating on each other. What a disappointment. Back to Russ, he's paying the ultimate price tonight, if only he could have kept his cool and talked with Jeff (and vice versa) before the veto got used this should have been resolved.

Shenanagon
Member

07-28-2009

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 5:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Shenanagon a private message Print Post    
hi What, we discussed the whole Jordan disliking Russ so much and none of us could come up with a reason why. We played around with maybe it's because he's Lebanonese or it could be because of his fights with Chima and Michelle. So hard to say. I never did get why Jordan had such an adversion to Russ because he was always extremely nice to her. We also chatted on another thread about Russ possibly having a tiny crush on Jordan. Hard to say hard to say.....but you're definitely right in that Jordan's verbal putdowns of Russ to Jeff influenced Jeff. Again I wish the two meatheads had talked and not listened to others. Oh well such is the game and Nat's sitting pretty...ugh

Stormie
Member

03-01-2007

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 6:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stormie a private message Print Post    
What, Jeff did not turn on Russell bc of Jordan, Jeff turned on Russell bc he listened to Natalie and Kevin's lies. Jeff brought Jordan into it. I was thinking after yesterday's argument, that maybe Jordan was taking her frustration at the way Jeff had been speaking to her, out on Russell. I have no idea, though, why she even got involved.

Shenan, so many conversations were had, but I do know they wanted Russell out too, but he did put up Ronnie, then they had bigger fish to fry after Jessie, the first being Chima, who Michelle put up. Russell and Michelle were on the oust with "Jessie's" group, so it seemed like a good idea for J/J/M/R to come together and they made plans until F4. Some people think Jeff always wanted Jessie and Russell out bc of the competitions, and used the lie (not knowing it's a lie) as an opportunity to get Russell out now, but I'm iffy on that. I do know Jeff went back on his word, broke his alliance and Natalie is still there--why Jeff, why, lol.

What555456
Member

06-14-2005

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 6:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send What555456 a private message Print Post    
Shenanagon -- The reason I bring up the money for Jordan's dislike of Russ is because it is what seems to be the only constant specific and tangible reason when she complains about Russ.

Everything else she says about him is gobbledygook. But this comes up on a regular basis and is very specific and tangible.

It also makes sense because it seems she feels she is stuck living at home and in a dead-end job because she does not have the cash to go to school. Thus, her lust for money has a basis in her life.

Could it be an inherent bigotry against anyone of middle eastern background? I suppose. I prefer not to think that, though. She strikes me as uneducated, ill-informed and not a real deep thinker. But a bigot? I have seen no other signs of it from her.