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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 6:59 am
Watch Jeff's interview on Inside Dish! Jeff watched Russ and all the signs were there! It was his chance at getting rid of a good player and if he didn't he'd a been on the block just like he was only it would've been Russ pulling the strings.
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 7:38 am
Leaf, totally agree. Because he broke his word, he was out 5th instead of being in the F4. It was the Howie move that ruined it for his entire alliance. but just like Howie, Jeff is well liked, so it wasn't his fault ... rme
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 7:56 am
It's even clearer in retrospect that Jeff made a terrible decision. There is no way that Russell would have been a factor in the carrying the water competition. Kevin would have already been eliminated. Michele had a big lead over everyone else and would have been HOH and she was painfully loyal to Jeff and Jordan. Jeff, Jordan and Michele would have completely controlled the voting. They would have cruised to the final four. Jeff missed out on the fact that Russell looked strong but wasn't a strong competitor.
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Spear
Member
08-06-2001
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 12:10 pm
Sorry, I must have missed something -- why wouldn't Russell have been a factor in that competition? I thought he would have had a good chance at winning that. I agree that it was still a terrible decision on Jeff's part.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 12:42 pm
Well considering Russell wasn't good at any competition that didn't involve hanging onto something, it isn't much of a stretch to assume that he wouldn't have been good at this one. Plus we know Kevin was good at it (he won) so replacing Kevin with Russell would probably have resulted in a better outcome for J & J. It certainly couldn't have been worse.
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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 1:04 pm
Well Jeff wouldn't have know what the competition was now would he? He just remembers hanging for hours while everyone else gave up but Russell. Thats how he viewed Russell and Rus was good at the memory games. Russ also proved he wasn't trustworthy by voting to keep Jesse in which Jeff saw as pretty telling where Russ's loyalty was. Jeff said he was shocked that he voted to keep Jesse considering Jeff just saved his butt. From the moment Jeff saved Russell at no time did Russell prove any loyalty to Jeff. Prove being the operative word.
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 1:11 pm
Jeff's game became too personal. He took his eye off the prize and instead opted to do the alpha thing and "get" Russell. The fact that the LML even worked and was never questioned speaks volumes about where his head was at at the time. Dumb move. In this game, you have to be willing and able to abandon your like or dislike of an individual. It should only matter who will further you in the game and recognize that desperation on the part of those in danger of leaving can lead to all kinds of deception. Your job is to at least try to sort that out, not welcome it as a reason to do what you wanted to do and then pat yourself on the back and call it a big move.
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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 1:30 pm
If I was Jeff and I didn't know what everyone's plan was and the person who I just took off the block voted to KEEP the person he knew I was trying to get out... well hell no I wouldn't have trusted that person. Jeff looked around and thought worse case scenario I get put on the block next week, well then I would have to win the veto and the odds are in my favor to do that. He had to take that gamble and he lost. Shoulda, woulda, coulda... he still would've been on the block and he still would've gone home regardless, its just the person sending him home may have been different. I never thought Jeff liked or disliked Rus, he just didn't trust him and Rus's actions didn't show him to be trustworthy to Jeff.
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Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 1:33 pm
If anything, that vote for Jessie should have proved his loyalty. He kept his word twice when it would have been easier to go with the crowd. But Jeff, like some of his followers, will never admit that he let the HoH paranoia take over and took his eye off the prize. You don't take out an ally before all your enemies are gone ... just ask Howie and the Sovs.
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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 1:55 pm
It proved his loyalty to the other side. The other side wanted Russ out Jeff saved him and honestly wanted to trust him. Russell screwed himself over voting to keep Jesse.
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Tissy
Member
07-28-2003
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 2:05 pm
Jeff didn`t save Russell - he just wanted Jesse out more and wanted to please America for giving him the CDE.
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Lillian
Member
07-29-2009
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 2:17 pm
ITA - Jeff did not save Russell as much as use him in a grand move to get out Jessie. Russell did not owe it to Jeff to abide by his wishes as CDE holder, the fact of which was learned just moments before. If Russell screwed himself, it was by putting his trust in two weak players who were too easily swayed by the other side of the house.
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Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 2:55 pm
Jeff broke-up his own alliance and kept dredging up past things that had already been talked out, then invented new ones to justify his reasoning, but the reality is, Jeff allowed Kevin to get inside his head and turn him against his own alliance, the result, Jeff is gone and Natalie is still there.
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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 3:10 pm
Jeff already thought Rus was coming after him before Kev said a word!!! And thats where all your logic falls! Kevin had nothing to do with making Jeff doubt, Jeff already doubted just by watching Russell's actions. You all keep conveniently ignoring that point. As well as the irony that at the same time they were thinking up the 'lie' to tell that Russell was in the other room talking about getting Jeff out with Michelle even if the opportunity presented itself before F4. Russ didn't have a problem with it. So the so-called 'lie' became a truth!!!
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Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 3:58 pm
Jeff and Russell, along with everyone in the house, were going after each other already, but they came together in an alliance, there was no full blown trust, but they decided to ban together towards a common goal, which was getting Lydia, Natalie and Kevin out. Jeff, Russell, Michele and Jordan swore allegiance until F4. If Jeff was so worried about Russell, why be in an alliance with him, not once, but twice? What was the point? The only reason Jeff started to believe Russell was not going to stay in the F4, was bc of Kevin. How would it have benefited Russell to have gone after Jeff before F4? He already had a big target on his back, why make it bigger by betraying his alliance? Russell and Michele were sticking to the F4 alliance, but Jeff broke it. Kevin never gave Jeff his word, he lied, so did Natalie. Jeff was duped by the other alliance.
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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 4:03 pm
In Jeff's exit interview on Inside Dish he said that he stopped trusting Russell when he voted for Jesse to stay! Don't forget J/R were working together to try to sway votes before they knew J had the power. Watch the interview it will let you know what was going on in his head before Kev talked to him. I totally got why he did what he did after I watched that.
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Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 4:40 pm
I saw the interview, I don't need to see it again. Jeff didn't know about the LML in that interview and was saying the same things he said in the house. He also told Ross maybe Russell was jealous; Jeff was reaching. Jeff never fully trusted Russell and visa versa. Russell was under no obligation to vote to evict Jessie. That vote, among other things, was hashed out prior to making the F4 alliance. It wasn't something brand new, it was something Jeff tried to use to justify his actions. Again, if he was so worried about Russell, why align with him? He had nothing, bc the truth is, he formed a new alliance with Kevin and Natalie and they burned him. Exactly how did it benefit Jeff to evict Russell before the F4? He had the numbers with his original alliance. Jeff screwed up, his being evicted by Kevin and Natalie prove that.
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Merrysea
Moderator
08-13-2004
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 5:43 pm
Jeff has also said in his exit interviews that he never trusted Kevin and Natalie and just kept them because they were weaker players; however, when he chose to align with them, he told Jordan that Kevin and Natalie had never lied in the house and that they were trustworthy. I remember screaming in frustration every time one of them (J/J) said Natalie never lied!
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Leafsweetie
Member
06-29-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 6:19 pm
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Jeff make a Final 4 deal AFTER Russell voted to keep Jessie?
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 6:22 pm
Yes Jarreau, which is why some of us think Jeff's excuse was lacking.
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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 7:55 pm
Its not about excuses! Jeff gave you his thought process whether you choose to accept it or not! He doesn't have all the facts like we have, he's playing a game where people screw you over to win, play or get played. He read Russell's actions as Russ was coming after him, Kevin said it out loud but it wasn't anything he wasn't already thinking and thats what Jeff said to Kevin when they were talking. Numbers who cares about numbers when you think you can beat the rest in a comp! Russell even said it in the jury house as well as Jesse they both would vote for him!!! Lydia was surprised because she was still mad at him. Game play-wise it was risky and ultimately he lost but hindsight is everything. If Jeff won that veto he quite possibly would've won the whole thing! THAT alone made it worth the risk and thats what Jeff was thinking. Bottom line is Russell said he'd take Jeff out if the opportunity arose, Jeff just got the opportunity first.
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 8:05 pm
Think about it, Peep. You're finally on the winning side and you've got a f4 deal with people that haven't screwed you over so far. Next thing ya know, two people tell you that 2 of your allies are going after you and they heard them say so! Do you: 1. Defensively confront your 2 allies, put them on the spot using bad information along with a lie tossed in for good measure and then not believe anything they say and begin the alienation process OR 2. Ask yourself why 2 people from the opposite side that wouldn't give you the time of day until they were in some trouble and you know have betrayed others are suddenly concerned about your welfare. Wouldn't they be cheering if they knew a powerful alliance was gonna eat their own? I could go on and on about all the clues that were right in front of their faces but I won't. It ain't rocket science.
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Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 8:08 pm
Why did Jeff align with Russell if he was so worried about him? How did evicting Russell before F4 benefit Jeff? Jeff made the wrong choice, jumped the gun, he could have gotten Russell out after F4. The numbers at that time were in Jeff, Jordan, Michele and Russell's favor. Jeff and Jordan backed the wrong pony and blew it. And it's not hindsight, this happened over an almost 3 week period of time. It was horrible to see it all unravel. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree, we see it very differently. Bottom line, Natalie is still there.
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Peepinagain
Member
07-23-2005
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 8:44 pm
Of course we're going to disagree, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind! I'm just trying to get you to consider how Jeff felt and what he was thinking. 1. Jeff already saw the writing on the wall! He already thought Russell was coming after him THATS why he didn't question!!! Don't you guys GET that??? Jeff was doubting Russ at the time, listen to his interview he described his thought process!!! He confronted Michelle, well Michelle doesn't lie very well because Russ had already talked to her about going after Jeff if he got the chance. Her stuttering etc just confirmed what he was thinking and here's the gal Russ was saying it to. 2. Russell was THE biggest threat in Jeff's eyes, he could always get the 2 lapdogs later, he didn't see them as an immediate threat. He thought if Russell won the next hoh he'd be walking out the door so this was his only chance because he had it now and he might not get that chance again. Jeff had to take that chance now or lose it. THATS what he was thinking HE DIDN'T SEE ALL THAT WE COULD SEE! Stormie ~ This didn't happen over a 3 week period it happened in the one week Jeff was in HOH. You've heard the saying, "A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush"? That means you don't throw away the bird you know you have to maybe catch the 2 in the bush that you MIGHT get or you could end up with nothing. Well Jeff couldn't count on getting the hoh again and he had the opportunity now and he was convinced if it was the other way around Russ would've put him up, so he did it. Russell even said in his DR he couldn't believe Jeff didn't put him up because he would have. But then he added he could still be back doored. Think about it, if you saw someone doing things that you interpreted as this person is going to come after me first chance they get, wouldn't you take action? He believed it! Why would he do it if he didn't believe it? AND he was thinking this before Kev said anything, Kev just got him saying it out loud. N/K are taking credit for something they didn't start although they fanned the flames. Russell was a huge threat in the house, a good player AND not so loyal. Don't forget Russell told Ronnie he was on his side and after Ronnie didn't put him on the block Russell ended up sending him packing. Seems to be a theme with Russell. Anyway I've seen everything Jeff hasn't and I have to say I think Russell would've put Jeff up if he was in Jeff's shoes. But we'll never know for sure will we? oops almost forgot to add... He aligned himself with Russell because he thought he could trust him at the time, especially since he saved his butt. It was later that he got nervous about him. Jeff describes his thinking better than me in his interview. Remember, in the interview the game is over for him, if he thought he made a mistake up he would've said it. He wasn't playing for the camera, he was being real.
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Kappy
Member
06-29-2002
| Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 9:30 pm
I like Russell more then Jeff but they're both in the jury house so har-de-har-har on all of us! 
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