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Archive through September 16, 2009

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Big Brother USA ARCHIVES: Big Brother 11 - Part 6: Current Live Feed Discussion (ARCHIVES): September 16th Archive: Archive through September 16, 2009 users admin

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Chitchat58
Member

07-25-2008

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chitchat58 a private message Print Post    
Well said C1, I am going to miss your posts they were always very intelligent.

Gurliegirl
Member

06-20-2006

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gurliegirl a private message Print Post    
Jordan obviously did something right. Julie handed her a check for $500,000 last night.

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Missy I know :-) I truly understood where those were coming from that gave Natalie the credit for the LML in that she offered the story but knew it was Kevin's willingness to ignite the flame for the idea. I liked Kevin's game in trying to bring life back to a smaller group that was going to be slowly eaten alive. Natalie like many players got lucky there was a Kevin who ignited that flame.

Missyb
Member

07-28-2004

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Missyb a private message Print Post    
I agree. I also think Kevin was so underrated. One of his big moves that went unnoticed, which he survivied by the way, was his own attempt at a coup, to get rid of an athelete and even the numbers. He really wanted that to happen and it was his good buddy Lydia who busted him before Michele did. He was lucky to survive that betrayal.

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
Jordan hadn't watched BB before sequester and the others were avid watchers and played too hard. Plain and simple. Too me, it would be harder to get to the end being honest and straightforward. Jordan did that and she didn't throw any of the comps. People said she didn't play...she warned Casey that he was going to be the next target and he told her he didn't want to hear about it and told her that she was paranoid...she told Jeff things and he didn't want to hear it...so she started being quiet and he got mad about that...Jordan played...sorry that others are blind to all her game-play. I think others didn't see because they shrugged her off to being naive and didn't focus on the fact that she really was playing the game.

Chippy
Member

08-16-2007

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chippy a private message Print Post    
Great insights C1. I'll ignore the violins. I didn't have to pay anyone any money for any game. I'm just a fan of the game and contend that those who rely on "hate the game, not the players" should take a page from their own book and love the game, not the players. And if everyone was of the notion that whoever wins deserves to win, well, we wouldn't have near the depth of insight on this board daily... it's all about how we all view it differently from our own perspectives. No need to be a sore winner.

I had to LOL at the clips of the LML. Kevin did light that fire on the feeds and I'm glad he got proper credit much as it still flew over Jeff's head who still contends that he knew all about it. Okey dokey Jeff.

Yesitsme... enjoyed your post. Thing is, I'm not sure Natalie could have sold herself to this jury at all, no matter how disappointed many of us were with her answers. Their minds were made up. She couldn't change America (even if she had months), Jeff's vote was a no brainer (pardon the pun) and so was Michelle's. The person you deem the devil isn't gonna vote for ya, game or no (I wouldn't either). Jesse said himself that it was all about who won final HOH (oh gag me) and Lydia, well, whatever ya say Mr. Pectacular.

IMO, there were only two strategic votes... neither went to Jordan. I find some comfort in that.

I was scratching my head that Julie started with America's vote. She missed out on some suspense cause after Jordan got #3, we all knew #4 was Jeff's and she won it. Wonder if she meant to do that? Just curious...

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Bbnut I agree. Jordan definitely played the game. They all did. She just didn't feel the need to be loud and aggressive. She played it on her terms. It definitely goes along the lines of what she said was her goal all along. Under the radar. Even for me it is seen as a boring game but it's very effective obviously.

The loud and aggressive play is actually all for show. It can easily damage your chances with a jury of your peers later on. That isn't wise game play.

Everyone takes advantage of sub alliances as needed just as long as they are safe. You can act naive about it or even be naive but if that keeps you safe with that person it was effective game play.

I'm still saying today... call her a non strategist simply because she wasn't loud but the truth is that is a strategy. Being herself.

One of a few glowing red lights that they have all said right after the show is that it was the Jeff and Jordan show. Well if you all knew that for the love of God get rid of them. If you don't she played you just well enough to get to the next week and you opened the door for her to take herself over the finish line.

Lainee
Member

07-19-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lainee a private message Print Post    
Chippy,

I was actually pleasantly surprised that she started with America's Vote...and very glad she did. It sure made me feel when she started with us that "yeah, our vote counted!"

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Hey Chippy love your posts :-)

I actually think Danielle Reyes gave the best example as to why America couldn't embrace Natalies game. As America was watching her aggressive coattail riding routine we would hear her announce how loyal and honest she was being. Danielle said there's the problem. Don't do that. Shut up it sounds lame. Stop performing you coattail rider. Not when America knows the truth. They appreciate the approach much less and really just want you to stop that routine. Own it.

I was still waiting for her to own the lies and disloyalty to those she relied on to either win comps for her or risk getting booted. Instead to the end she wouldn't own it so her bid to win favor with them came off lame.

No her game was not being loyal and honest just because she told two of them her real age and kept saying she was aligned with one of them.

Her real game was riding behind them claiming some moves were all her own when they were either set up for her or initiated by someone else or simply out of convenience knowing she was safe. Embracing being a liar unfortunately means that anything you claim as yours may be called out as yet another lie and that includes you were really strong.

She was fun to watch but all that doesn't really equate to a better player.

Mamapors
Member

07-29-2004

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamapors a private message Print Post    
Chippy, you do not think Kevin's vote was emotional?
Boy I sure do. He got got by Jordan and he did not like it. And I am not convinced that even Russell's vote was strategic. So yes we all see it differently, many of us have watched since Season 1, and still have come away with different ideas on what makes "good strategy".

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
Yes, I agree C1...there are just so many others including people in the interviews that say she didn't play...and I spent my days and nights up till 3 and 4 in the morning watching.

Chippy
Member

08-16-2007

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chippy a private message Print Post    
If I thought Jordan played "below the radar" and won, I'd be the first one to jump for joy. Her game was "just be myself, how hard can that be?". You've got to be an active participant in a strategy for it to be one. She lounged around and was friendly and extremely incompetent in any of the competitions that required either profound thought or physical prowess. She didn't throw anything even though it would have benefitted her to do so. She tried her best and as luck would have it (lol), she lost which even kept her safer (zero threat potential). If she meant to do any of that, my hat would be off to her. She didn't.

Funny... this board was lighting up not long ago with posts about how dumb J/J were to buy the LML at face value, to oust Russell, to trash talk M and treat her like garbage, to believe K's promises, etc. And now they hung the moon? Egads.

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Bbnut it really is a completely different take on the coattail riding routine. One was uber aggressive trying to be a character about it while the other did it so far under the radar it was seen as non strategy. It's very annoying to the aggressive players trying to make the cameras notice them because they have learned wow you don't have to do any of that. Some how Jordan had the ability to convince them she was a non issue so get her later on. It was a strategy to just be herself.

I kept saying the show could have done an edit with Natalie in a devils outfit and Jordan in an angels outfit and shown they were both playing the same game of coattail riding.

Natalie pretending to be someone else younger then she was which really was a non issue given she acted childish while lying, cheating, and more aggressive to win some performance award vs Jordan just being herself standing behind others.

I so agree with Mama that Jordan absolutely burned Kevin at his own game of lies in the end and his vote was not based on strategy but simply hurt feelings because if it was about strategy Jordans game of riding coattails and being subtle about it plus winning the final comps and daring to talk him into taking her to the finals if he won was a great mind screw. Russ for some reason was impressed with the loud obnoxious type of game play so he calls that strategy as well but there also was some bitter in him as well as Jordan had taken him on emotionally in the game and she bested him.

Chippy
Member

08-16-2007

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chippy a private message Print Post    
Yes we have, mama and yes we do but it doesn't make mine wrong and yours right or vice versa.

I didn't see Kevin's vote as emotional at all. In fact, for having to cast it before his heart even stopped racing from losing HOH and being evicted and losing 50-500K, I thought he was less emotional than the first jury member... from the minute Jordan said his name. Very classy exit IMO. I think Kevin was fully prepared to be booted if he didn't win and he even gave her Kudos for doing it.

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
Put it this way...not arguing with anyone...but as I see it...Jordan and Jeff were alone...snubbed by the rest, pretty much, and they were a team...they played as a team and I don't see any real coat tail riding by them, other than the norm of getting further in the game...

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Chippy the thing is Jordan did play below the radar but she never made an issue of it because that was just her. Call it the most "real" game play in that her attitude was oh well I'll just sit back and see what happens and go along with this. It's a game move it's just not aggressive or ornate and showing off. You forget Jeff would tell her just shut up. Just go sit over there. It was subtle strategy just to keep her out of the more aggressive game moves. Her counter claim to someone throwing comps was that she played to win the comps and that avenue ended up paying off HUGE. She did mean to do all that. It's annoying her strategy was just to be herself because it devalues the louder players so that the louder player says well that wasn't really hardcore strategy but yet at the end of the day it was strategy and it seemed to work.

I will stand firm that her and Jeffs game was very sloppy at times but so was Natalie's. Again it equalized their games. Really was Natalies early game all that good when she was standing behind a majority in control or was she just grandstanding and setting herself up as a HUGE target if that group had continued in control? She was louder but is that really that good? Or just better gaming entertainment to avoid she is just riding coattails as well? Would that really play well to a jury?

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Bbnut I do think that Jordan was riding the coattails of Jeffs more aggressive must win comps routine. She was aware he would go before her if they were both on the block. I suppose her Naive personality would have granted her time in the house but she did need to put at least one stronger player in front of her "just in case" Again I don't think she did it to him to be crafty it's just that this game leads you towards something like that. One player who did that felt a need to make that look like a big huge thing while Jordan just did it because that's what you have to do.

Mamapors
Member

07-29-2004

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamapors a private message Print Post    
I do not think one opinion is wrong and the other right. I never said that, have never said that. I just commented on how we can see things so differently.

My opinion, both Kevin's and Russell's votes were emotional. Some think they were strategic. I was just putting my opinion out there. I am not quite as eloquent as some of you are, I just usually put it out there.

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
Funny... this board was lighting up not long ago with posts about how dumb J/J were to buy the LML at face value, to oust Russell, to trash talk M and treat her like garbage, to believe K's promises, etc. And now they hung the moon? Egads.

I'm right there with you, Chippy. There's no sense in rewriting history at this time. J/J played one of the worst games ever. She lucked out and won..that's it. She's a lucky person. Period. No under the radar..no gameplay, etc.

She did wait until the end to make a good move and even Michelle seemed somewhat surprised that Jordan did that all on her own, lol. She took Nat instead of Kevin.

I also don't think Kevin's vote was emotional. He was totally ensconsed with Nat during the game and there was no surprise he voted for her.

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
I agree Mama...I think it is harder to get through by being honest and straightforward...same as in life...people that lie cheat and steal get through easier and get a free pass...it shouldn't be that way, but it is true.

Jhezzie
Member

07-05-2001

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jhezzie a private message Print Post    
This is like the end of Ferris Bueller's Day Off. "You're still here? It's over! "

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
Again I don't think she did it to him to be crafty it's just that this game leads you towards something like that.

C1mag, I think she was very crafty re Jeff. She let slip more than a couple of times to Jeff, "When you're gone." He used to get indignant that she always 'assumed' he would leave before him and that's when he started getting upset about being the huge target when she was just as much responsible for his moves as he was.

She sort of set him up by getting him to boot Russell. Not saying he didn't believe the lie, but she KNEW he LIED to Michelle and let that go, so yes..I do feel she used him throughout the game. Also in the log comp she was talking to Nat and said something about she didn't HAVE to win HOH comps before, so....."

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
You got got!

Bbnut
Member

06-12-2006

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bbnut a private message Print Post    
You got got!

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
I do agree with Mamapors that over all these are all just collective opinions.

I can totally understand how some appreciated Natalies desire to perform in a big way utilizing more aggressive play. I just never saw it as brilliant. I've never seen a memo that states this is better game play. It's risky. I saw it as catastrophic not to pay closer attention to what her real game was which was coattail riding. Adding in the extra spice of usurping other players game moves as hers, lying cheating and stealing would garner her no favors if she couldn't produce anything endearing about it.

I'm still listening to her response to Russel's open door question to her which was why she feels she should win. How can she expect the majority to buy her game when she would say she was honest and loyal and a tough competitor so please vote for me friends when her game was all lies and disloyalty and she couldn't produce key wins at the end. Own it. That wasn't her game. She perched herself behind others and if they lost a comp they'd go before her. That isn't loyal LOL.

Is playing the crafty liar who really couldn't win all the comps a better strategy? The joke was on her. Last night we learned the answer is no. Not with that group. Anyone who thought ED's game was brilliance ( Russ ) is going to think ugly play is great and a better strategy but as it has been pointed out Dicks win is very questionable not to mention Dick didn't create lies Dick tattled about everyone's strategy hahahaha. That part I liked but considered it bad play. Without the AC thing he was toast for doing that routine.