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Why do we love some HG's - Michelle -...

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Big Brother USA ARCHIVES: Big Brother 11 - Part 6: Why do we love some HG's - Michelle - and hate others? users admin

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Whynotplay
Member

09-08-2009

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 7:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whynotplay a private message Print Post    
>>>> This is my first thread, so if it goes elsewhere, please bear with me. If I've gotten some of the details wrong, please correct me.

One of the fun things for me about BB is that we get to watch HG's behavior 24/7 and analyze
it (ok, nitpik it to death) It's a social bubble, experiment. We see all kinds, "good" and
"bad", from sweet and naive, (insert picture of [Jordon] and queue chorus of angels); to nasty, lying, hurtful, bullying (Natalie, Ronnie, Evil Dick); to fun loving, game creating (insert sock puppets); to Bad Boys we love to hate - or is it hate to love (Dr Will, Evil Dick).

But what makes us love one, while hate/ despise the behavior of another who, at least superficially, seems to be doing the same things? For example, BB11's Jorden vs BB8(I
think)'s Danielle? Or the pair I'm really interested in, BB11's Michelle vs BB8's Jen?

Michelle, someone whom some say will be one of the most popular / most loved house guest ever - on a par with, or even surpassing (for some) Janelle.

Initial impression - Was proud of how she looked - at least enough to do a house strip tease - and was a good sport when others didn't.

Socially awkward and inept. Left on the outside, never really an intergrale part of any alliance. Seemed to be needed / tolerated for votes only.

Had a smile / giggle that endeared some, annoyed the heck out of others.

Formed a crush (or was perceived to have) on the male half of the house lovebirds/showmance.

Was bullied by 2 strong, alpha males (ok, one THOUGHT he was an alpha). This was actively supported / encouraged by some house guests, and tactically by others - at least no one came to her defense.
She reacted by smiling, sometimes by sending back zingers of her own, sometimes by
calmly denying what was said, sometimes by repeating (agreeing outwardly) - and seeming to
imply that the charges were absurd. However she did break down in private, and once (twice?) in front of other house guests. Some comminsorated with her, some laughed about it. Julie mentioned the bullying on her exit interview at eviction, and Michelle talked about how she didn't know why she and she was also bullied in high school.

Became the house scapegoat - all bad things were her fault. Michelle bashing became
the house pastime.




BB8's Jennifer.

Initial impression - Was proud of how she looked - excessively - cried because she didn't like her picture. Was deemed to be vain.

Socially inept. (Was she the one we speculated had aspergers?) Left on the outside,
only wanted for votes - if then.
Formed a crush on Michael Nick. She said was reciprocated (may or may not have been true).

Was bullied, excessively (some speculation it was to the level of legal assault), and not supported by anyone.

Reacted with a smile that seemed to be hated by everyone. But I don't recall her
ever breaking down or showing that it hurt her - the opposite in fact.

Became the house scapegoat. Jen bashing seemed to become not only the house past time but a TV viewer / Line Feeder pastime too.


Why do we love one, and despise the other? What behavior, personality trait generates bullying from others, - socially acceptable bullying. I've been encouraging a pre-teenage girl to model her behavior on Michelle, and she wants to know how it differed from BB8's Jen - because she does NOT want to be treated like Jen was. I only had the TV shows for BB8, and read only some LF's and chats, so I really don't remember why.

I've lurked here for a number of seasons, and always thought you all had great insights and thoughtful answers. I need help.

If I've gotten some of the details wrong, please correct me.

(As an aside, I was always told when growing up, that when teased to just smile, and pretend it doesn't matter, and the bullies will get bored & go attack someone else. But back in my day, with girls, it never went beyond words.)

<made changes - 77>

Loppes
Member

07-12-2002

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Loppes a private message Print Post    
Whynot, great posts, sorry I have to get to work really quick here. I think but I'm not totally sure, that for me, I choose to like or dislike HGS probably based on standards I've been brought up with. This season definitely I felt Michele was treated horrendously. This show really opens up a view of adults and how they behave differently and childishly at times. Different human traits and characteristics, and yet it some ways it makes me stop and think, "would I do that if I were in there?, 'What's my 'line in the sand' in terms of behavior" etc. I wonder at times if it isn't a subconscious greed to get to the top prize at all costs. The greed and allure of 'big money' for some people and the extent they will put their moral conscience on the line to get there.

(would post more but I'm already late for work)
:-)

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
That's a really good post, Whynot.

I think you meant Nick instead of Michael, though, RE - BB8's Jen.

Anyway, I actually liked and felt sorry for both Michele and Jen. But I think a lot of people saw Jen as coming between the Daniele and Nick showmance, and the hate came from that.

Ironically, after BB8 ended, so did the showmance, and Jen wound up dating Nick and I think they're still together. So I guess Jen got the last laugh on that one!

For Michele, I'm really hoping she wins the jury prize, she was put through the wringer, and although she was socially inept, she's a nice girl and didn't really trash the other houseguests other than when they betrayed her, or called her out on conversations that never happened!

I don't think there was much hate for Michele on this board, except when she was perceived as coming between the Jordan-Jeff showmance.

Showmances are just bad for the women of BB. Whether they're in one or not! LOL!!

Steviegirl
Member

07-07-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Steviegirl a private message Print Post    
I think it's pretty much the same as why we like/dislike people in real life. Some people LOVED Evel Dick, while others hated him.

I don't think it's what they're doing, it's how we connect with them on a personal level.

Some who hated how Evel terrorized people cheered when Howie did similar things.

So for me, if I don't like them on the show, I most likely wouldn't like them in real life either. And it's different for everyone because each person has their own social meter.

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
I tend to like people that I see as nice and kind. Some loved Evel Dick, I couldn't stand him. I also don't like people who annoy me, such as Jase.

In BB, I also want someone who seems to me to play the game. I see Jordan as very nice and kind, but in BB, even though I do like her, she isn't my favorite because I wanted more strategy. I think she got where she is by luck and because she bonded with Jeff. I don't see riding coatails as a bad strategy, but I don't see Jordan as using that as a strategy...more like...that is just the way it happened for her.

I also don't tend to like people like Maggie or Natalie from this season. I don't mind the lying or self righteousness if it is strategy and we see in the diary room that the hgs are doing those things on purpose. Those two are so unlikeable and off putting to me.

I also like when the hgs are funny and entertaining in their DRs. Nat is not at all.

I don't like people who are very self centered especially in the looks area and especially if that is just about all we see, such as Jessie. I think Dr. Will act very arrogant like Jesse but Dr. Will is also entertaining, funny, charming, and smart.

Whynotplay
Member

09-08-2009

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whynotplay a private message Print Post    
ooops, ok, so how do I edit it to change it to *Nick*? If some moderator can, please do.

I was thinking some more about this, and wonder if there is some critical mass at which point mob mentality takes over? Say Russ following Ronnie - only one person, so the rest just watched. In fact, several (even Rus) went up to his room.

But once Russ joined Ronnie on Bullying Michelle, everyone (in the house) seemed to join in. Even more apparent when *Nick* joined Evil in bullying Jen - it was open season.

This seems to happen at schools alot.

Did Michelle stand up for herself better - is that why we liked her? Or was it that we saw her cry - emphasized with her pain?

Why did "we" (or should I say "they") hate Jen's smile so much - yet I read no complaints about Michelle's?

I never disliked Jen, I felt sorry for her, but didn't particularly liked her. I'd like to think that if I was in BB8's house, I would have stood up for her - I'm sure I wouldn't have joined in the bashing, but fear I might have just kept my head down and kept quiet. At least I hope I wouldn't have followed the mob.

God, now that I have kids, I have to think about these things and try to guide my budding nerds through this. Or are they geeks? At least it's a better rep than what I faced in the 70's. (But we had drugs, and legal drinking at 18)

Cablejockey
Member

12-27-2001

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cablejockey a private message Print Post    
I judge the hgs like I would anyone I'd meet in real life. If they seem decent and basically ethical, I cheer them on. Some I can identify with more than others, so I take a special interest--like Michelle. Others remind me of nasty characters I have met in my life, and, fair or unfair, I immediately dont like them.
I especially like the ones who don't lose their tempers and act crazy--who remember its a game, not life and death--and dont rise to the bait in arguments and fight. Unfortunately, there have been very few of them.

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
Mob mentality takes over in a lot of situations. Moreso in BB since so much money is involved.

The houseguests vote with the group more times than not....can't tell you how much this pisses me off! But no one wants to be seen as standing alone with no alliance for fear of being an easy eviction.

When one person is targeted and it appears they're on their way out, the houseguests not only feel comfortable bashing them with the group, but it also makes them feel better about themselves, and not so bad about evicting them. After all - the victim is a horrible person and DESERVES to go!

I tend to support people who are vilified and bashed when they smile and win competitions and don't retaliate. To me, they become the underdog, and I like to see the bashers get their comeuppance when the victim gets revenge.

Tissy
Member

07-28-2003

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tissy a private message Print Post    
I tend to support people who are vilified and bashed when they smile and win competitions and don't retaliate. To me, they become the underdog, and I like to see the bashers get their comeuppance when the victim gets revenge.


Trouble is - in BB I hardly ever see the victims get their revenge on the show :-(

Leafsweetie
Member

06-29-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Leafsweetie a private message Print Post    
I'm actually not that big of a Michele fan. She threw an ally under the bus. So I don't see her as being one of the most popular houseguests in BB history. Perhaps she's popular this season because of slim-pickins.

I also base my opinions on people I'd deal with in real life - which is why I never liked/respected Evel Dick or his daughter who cheated on her boyfriend while she was in the house. I don't like Jessie because I loathe arrogance and self-involved people who think they're attractive - when in fact most people aren't attracted to that. I don't like Ronnie because of his behaviour. He loathed Michele for no reason. He acted like a snake.

Nat I don't like because I don't respect liars. I realize its a game, but she lies when lies aren't necessary (i.e. the story she gave about "final 2 reversal).

Chima - self-entitlement, racist comments, anti-man comments/behaviour, etc.

But if I can remember them beyond the season they were in, its either because I loathed them or enjoyed them.

Whynotplay
Member

09-08-2009

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whynotplay a private message Print Post    
I think the difference between, say Natalie & Michelle is easy - and we do like those who are seen to be nice.

But the differences between Michelle & Jen are more subtle, and so far the only reason anyone has given for the dislike of Jen on the Net is that she came between Nick & Danielle. Wasn't that in the beginning of the season - the first week or so? And then seemed to accept she had no chance with Nick for the rest of her time there? And didn't the bullying / bashing start later?

Like others, I felt sorry for Jen, but I didn't like her. And I can't tell you why. Given that I did NOT like Danielle or Nick, I don't think their showmance played any part for me. I think it was something in her behavior - but I can't say what. Did she do something that said - "I'm an easy prey - pick on me"?

Leafsweetie
Member

06-29-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Leafsweetie a private message Print Post    
I didn't like Jen because of her vanity. But after I got over that, she seemed like a good person. I definitely liked her when she stood up to Evel Dick's bullying and harassment.

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
Whynot.. I felt sorry for Michele... but I didn't particularly like her... I have been amazed with all of the Michele love... but as Leaf suggested, maybe it is because of slim-pickins.

Chippy
Member

08-16-2007

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chippy a private message Print Post    
Two words. Human Nature.

Personally, I was intrigued by the concept of BB from the start. I've watched all 11 seasons (even the winter one). I thoroughly enjoy each and every one even though the person I thought played the best game has never won. Not ever. Ain't gonna happen this year either.

The difference with me and a few others (a definitive minority here) IMO is that we are fans of the game first, the hg second. And, for me, the winner who has outside help with the win isn't much of a winner at all. America has screwed this game royally IMO. Strategy loses to popularity. It destroys individual games that were doing just fine by their own merits.

Michelle played a great game. She was right about so many things. What hurt her was her inability to convince her own alliance (and OMG look at what she had to work with) to listen. Her quirkish ways and social ineptitude turned people off. She became the scapegoat of all that went wrong and couldn't dig her way out. But she tried like hell and if the neuroscientist coulda located a brain between J/J/R, she maybe coulda pulled it off. Had they listened to her early on, N/K wouldn't have been a threat to her game at all... one of them would've been gone.

But I digress. I don't love some and hate others. I love some games and hate others. The ones I love the best are the ones that start playing on day one, never quit, reposition, outwit, deceive, manipulate, and do all this always remembering the endgame. Sittin' on yer ass 2 1/2 months and then lucking out on a couple comps while being seen as a 0 on the threat scale (great strategy IF it is one) with no idea what the game is even about, well, those are the ones I hate.

So, as sorely disappointed as I'll be if Jordan wins this, to me it'll only be because America stepped in early to change the game in her favor, she got drug along as a nonentity (which she is in the game) and then crowned the winner with the help of America. Now that'll stick in my gooch, er, craw. lol


But that's just me. lol

Chippy
Member

08-16-2007

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chippy a private message Print Post    
Oops, almost forgot... Jen who? lol

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 10:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
This is probably off topic of this thread, but I just feel the need to point this out:

The major concept of BB is that 'everyone is watching, judging, punishing' those in the house. Hence, the live feeds.

If you take away the influence of the viewers, then BB becomes "'Survivor' in a House".

JMHO.

Chippy
Member

08-16-2007

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 10:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chippy a private message Print Post    
The BB concept is from a fictional George Orwell character (1984). The theme is totalitarian surveillance. Hence the cameras and the live feeds.

If you take away the influence of the viewers, BB becomes what it's supposed to be otherwise why all the trouble of sequestering the jury or monitoring their correspondence or any of it? We have too much information to be in the game as opposed to being involved by just watching it all unfold.

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 10:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
If viewers voted, as they did in S1, and in all the other BB's around the world, there would be no need for sequestering anyone. WE would be Big Brother, not the producers. The producers were supposed to provide the situation for US to watch and judge. The whole ORIGINAL idea was for us to see everything, and decide from that. They took that away from us.

The new producers took over in S2, and created 'Survivor in a house' with letting the houseguests vote each other out. They ruined it for me, yet I still watch because I'm addicted!

Love ya, Chippy, but I'm a fan of the original concept (yes, I know I'm in the minority) and after 11 seasons, I just can't let it go! HA!

(sorry for hijacking the thread, Whynot...Chippy made me do it!)



Chippy
Member

08-16-2007

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chippy a private message Print Post    
Rosem....... STOP THAT

or I'm gonna come up with another gate... lol

Blamegate!

Wadf
Member

07-22-2009

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wadf a private message Print Post    
I honestly wasn't that big a fan of Michelle's until she started talking about her enjoyment of anal sex, at which point I paid much closer to what she had to say.

Just sayin'.

Rosem4243
Member

06-27-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosem4243 a private message Print Post    
LOL, Chippy.

I'd be HONORED to be a 'gate' unto myself!



Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 12:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
Whynot, I answered quickly earlier and just now had time to read the thread including your post. We have a parent thread. You may be able to get more answers and advice there that aren't so much about BB. It is in Community Corner.

BB is so unreal. I always think about the Stanford (?) experiment with the prison guards and prisoners. The guards were so awful that the experiment had to be cut short. I realize hgs are not in the same situation, but I am reminded about that experiment every year because of the power element of BB. Also, in BB, every little thing takes on monumental meaning because there is nothing else for them to think about.

Keldogg
Member

08-12-2005

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 1:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Keldogg a private message Print Post    
In comparing Jen and Michelle, my difference was how they viewed themselves.

Jen lost me the first time I saw her have a total meltdown over her picture on the memory wall. At first I thought it was kind of funny, but when the tantrum went on, I thought, she definitely is full of herself. OMG, when she removed her mother's picture from her HOH room, I totally was turned off by her.

Michelle did not have that same view of herself. She didn't think she was "all that", talked about being a nerd in school, seemed to be an underdog.

Caprica
Member

02-10-2007

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 3:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Caprica a private message Print Post    
Things that make me like certain House guests.
1.If they make me laugh.Even if I'm laughing at them.
2.If they pull out a killer most needed win.
3.If they become the underdog to a bunch of bullies or hate filled players.


There are a couple of things that will turn me off for good.
1.Constant hateful trash talk about other players.
2.Vanity beyond reason.This includes bragging about things that just can't be true.
3.Trying to ruin Big Brother.(the show or the feeds)

Just entertain me,Dang it.
That's what we pay for.

Stormie
Member

03-01-2007

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 5:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Stormie a private message Print Post    
I think it depends on the circumstances that they go through and how they handle things. Michele became and early target and everyone seemed to chime in; she dealt with it all season and it showed me she has an innate strength that compelled her to fight for her spot in the house. For Jen, I thought "Dick" should have been prosecuted for his behavior towards her, but she withstood it, it shows there is something more to her than her looks. I guess all in all, it's the personality that draws me to someone and how they handle themselves during the game, which may also change my opinion of them, like it did with Jeff.

Very interesting to think about, great question Why.

Merrysea
Moderator

08-13-2004

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Merrysea a private message Print Post    
Another difference between Michele and Jen is that we have no idea why Michele was a target in the house. We never saw anything that should have made people hate her so intensely.

With Jen and ED, it seemed to start with the butter competition when she made a big point of not wanting the "old man" to touch her. While he went too far in what he did, at least we knew why Jen was his target.