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Messalina
Member
06-19-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:10 pm
"He needs to come clean soon though." When Braden spoke last night (before the vote) didn't he say he had apologized to those he had offended? That's what I thought I heard him say. I could be wrong. Was his apology not accepted? Can he never redeem himself? Ever?
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Bonbonlover
Member
07-13-2000
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:16 pm
<maybe this is a little OT but this thread reminds me> One thing I really love about posting on the internet is that we are all nothing but a screenname. This forum may be filled with people of various races, socio-economic backgrounds, body types, family backgrounds, education levels... but when it comes down to it... we are really just screen names and speaking to each other as equals.
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:21 pm
Gidgit, I think CBS probably just do not care to have to pay the fine and face the consequences.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:22 pm
Some people will go for the throat in an argument. They'll say anything and everything they think will hurt the person they are angry with. Personally, I think Braden calling Kevin a "beaner", even in the context in which he said it, was done in intense anger and he was just blindly lashing out...so I don't believe Braden is truly a "racist" or a "bigot". Making a racist remark simply to hurt someone that has hurt you doesn't make you a racist. However, if your intent in using that word was to truly express how you honestly feel and what you honestly believe, then that would likely mean you're a racist. It's all in the intent. And if he was a true racist, wouldn't we have seen a pattern of remarks like that? Wouldn't Braden have exhibited a pattern of looking down on the ethnic HGs and made other disparaging racist remarks to (or about) them? Lots of people say really awful things in the heat of the moment, but that doesn't always mean they have a racist heart the rest of the time. I just think there are two sides to this thing. Whether it was simply one incident in the heat of the moment or an ongoing pattern of speech and behavior can mean the difference between being perceived as a bonafide bigot or an idiot that just stupidly and angrily overreacted in the heat of the moment. PS - I'm not saying Braden isn't a racist. I'm just saying he hasn't exhibited a pattern of racist behavior other than that one isolated incident which took place in an angry, volatile moment. Of course, I don't have the live feeds, so if he's been using terminology like that since the beginning and if he talks that way about the HGs behind their backs then I could be totally wrong. Just my 
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:25 pm
Mess..., I think Braden actually sort of retracted the apology to Kevin when Julie asked about it. Plus he did not actually say sorry to us who had to hear it.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:28 pm
Good points San Fran!!
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Kappy
Member
06-29-2002
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:30 pm
Honestly, I think most of us strive to be good people with good hearts but so much about race is constantly thrown at us, that in the heat of a moment, I think any one of us can throw out racist comments - as evidenced for us by Chima in the kitchen with Michelle. The only people who are perfect and would never ever EVER do it are saints and I don't think there are many of those around the planet, let alone in our country. But if there should be someone on this board who honestly thinks they would never EVER make a comment that can be construed as racist in any way, then please give us your name so we can notify the pope.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:34 pm
Your two cents are very well said, Sanfran. But I think there's no doubt what he said was a racist comment, even if Braden is not racist in all parts of his life. It came from somewhere, and I would like to believe that most of us would never have anything like that form on our lips, however angry we are. He's off the show now, so I don't really care about him, but I do think it's appropriate for him to be asked to explain himself and apologise. I'm very wary of people saying others should so easily just ignore racist behaviour. The more people say it's not acceptable, regardless of whether it was just said in anger, the better imo.
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Messalina
Member
06-19-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:34 pm
Chy..."I think Braden actually sort of retracted the apology to Kevin when Julie asked about it. Plus he did not actually say sorry to us who had to hear it." There could be several explanations for this. One, the simplest one, is that Braden may not be aware of the intense reaction from viewers...yet. Maybe he will apologize when he has to face more than just Julie. Another is that it sounds very much (to me at least) that his apology wasn't accepted and he's become defensive about it. If he's never going to be forgiven, by anyone, this may explain why some racists never repent. Just my opinion, though. As I said, I could be wrong.
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Glitterae
Member
08-02-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:35 pm
Sanfran...I guess maybe you said it all more clearly than I did...thank you... I just think throwing around the word racist is crazy....and crazier when people want to then throw around civil rights and Museum of Tolerance. And no Bee in his anger at the moment I do NOT think it was a racist comment, I think it was an angry comment.
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Messalina
Member
06-19-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:37 pm
"But if there should be someone on this board who honestly thinks they would never EVER make a comment that can be construed as racist in any way, then please give us your name so we can notify the pope." Well said, Kappy. I've written at least three notes on the same subject today and deleted them because I couldn't say it as well as you did!
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:44 pm
Thanks for responding, Glitter.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:48 pm
I would like to say one more thing: I don't necessarily "strive" to be a good person. I think it just comes out, because that is what I am. I can honestly say that I would never suggest that someone leave America because of their appearance or because I'm just so pissed at them that I can't manage to come up with anything witty to say. It is often in our moments of anger and frustration that the "real" us comes floating to the top. I think Braden managed to show us the real him.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:48 pm
"But if there should be someone on this board who honestly thinks they would never EVER make a comment that can be construed as racist in any way, then please give us your name so we can notify the pope." He didn't just call someone "articulate" or something that could be taken as racist in some contexts, he told Kevin he was a "beaner," reminded Kevin that he (Braden) was a "white American" and told Kevin to "go back to Mexico." I would absolutely never say that sort of thing, never even think of saying that sort of thing and if you feel the need to tell the pope that go right ahead.
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Caprica
Member
02-10-2007
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:53 pm
There were comments made last year by more than one player that could have been taken as racist but none of that made the show. The fact is that they put people with short fuses and opposing views in there on purpose for nothing but DRAMA. If they wanted a bunch people acting PC and singing hymns then that's what we would be seeing.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 1:55 pm
I think all of the HG's have managed to show us how they handle the stress. I am really, really tired of Braden being labeled as the racist of the house. I have heard all kinds of comments being made by a majority of these HG's but everybody is saying the Braden is a bigot, Braden is a racist. That's fine if you believe that, but you need to understand that if so, there are many racists still left in the house. So, who's going to call out Chima when she's up on the block? Do you think she'll take it as well as Braden did? I think not.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:02 pm
If she doesn't, we'll be watching. And commenting. lol
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Kminfinity
Member
06-29-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:02 pm
Some things I think I think~ *Braden was warned by production NOT to bring up the racist comments immediately after exiting the house, and Julie did, and he was confused. *Braden has a stream of consciousness style of speaking....he often answers a question three questions ago, if you get what I mean. I have a nephew who has that style (is it a psychological thing?) EX. What's your favorite color? random answer form a minute ago What's your dog's name? random answer... Where do you live? blue kinda circular and unconnected. Plus, he has a tendency to throw out non sequitors that are only loosely connected to the conversation. I think that's why people joked about him smoking weed. *In Braden's mind, he did apologize to the people who mattered: Lydia and Kevin. They didn't accept it. It became a *thing* people could use to justify their gameplay. He doesn't see the relevance of apologizing to the audience. I get the feeling he's one of those players who really doesn't understand the 24/7 live feed aspect. Witness his comment to the studio audience about not understanding what really goes on in the house....
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Mamabatsy
Member
08-05-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:14 pm
I would like to say one more thing: I don't necessarily "strive" to be a good person. I think it just comes out, because that is what I am. I can honestly say that I would never suggest that someone leave America because of their appearance or because I'm just so pissed at them that I can't manage to come up with anything witty to say. It is often in our moments of anger and frustration that the "real" us comes floating to the top. I think Braden managed to show us the real him. *** Thank you Bee. I think it's time for me to leave this discussion because I thought most people realised that hate language is a major offence and I still cannot believe that anyone would defend it under any circumstances. I am quite upset.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:16 pm
There is no doubt in my mind that he was wrong to do what he did. I guess what it all comes down to is whether or not we believe that something said in anger conveys a person's true feelings on the subject. I'm not sure. I don't think it necessarily does.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:20 pm
I think I agree with Jimmer
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Chitchat58
Member
07-25-2008
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:24 pm
I think when you are on the other end of a racist remark it is more offensive, rather than just seeing it happen.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:25 pm
I was not defending what Braden said. He was wrong. He apologized. People don't have to believe his apology, people can dislike him for what he said. I am just saying that whatever standard people use to criticize people in the house, make sure that all players are being measured to the same standard.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:26 pm
I don't think something said in anger defines a person but it sure indicates something about him/her. And I think he and Jordan and probably a couple of others had previously used gay slurs as a matter of course, when just talking, not at all angry. And it could just be that they don't realize or are being careless, but really, seems like most people of their age should be aware that such slurs are hurtful, and after it is called to their attention, should be able to give it some thought. Seems like they didn't. === And does the production staff of BB gleefully exploit anything like this? Oh yes.
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Govols
Member
07-18-2005
| Friday, July 17, 2009 - 2:34 pm
Oh man~would have been fun to watch him this season. I love him even more. And...Julie a LOT less. She was out of line in that she interrupted and was rude the way she talked to him. I have never thought she was a good interviewer.
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