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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:23 am
I think Dan made a royal ass out of himself at that meeting and lost a bunch of jury votes. If that was his intention, he got the gold. ITA, but I also don't fault Dan for his plan, just the execution, which is what I think will come back and bite him in the, uh, end.
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Lancecrossfire
Animoderator
07-13-2000
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:40 am
I have to go along with the idea that if it's too good to be true, it probably isn't true. Especially in BB. Dan making a deal too good to be true should have been an immediate red flag to Ollie. The fact Dan followed any of it is odd actually, so Ollie should be grateful for anything. I think Dan did a good thing for himself. He has a 50/50 chance that the jury will vote based on game play. The other 50% is voting based on taking it personal. Dan has picked that the vote will be based on game play and he's taking action accordingly. He took the risk at the right point too--where he has the tie breaker vote, as he is assuming his alliance will vote the expected way. I'm in the minority that Dan made an excellent calculated risk. Kayser on the other hand did more of an Ollie move--assuming folks were going to do exactly what they said and they wouldn't "play to win" over breaking words. I've never understood making deals during HOH comps. Most are not followed (those complaining about Dan are making it sound like he's the first to not follow all aspects of a deal) at all let alone in part. To expect someone to help you at all if they aren't in your group seems a bit foolish to me. It seems even more foolish to believe someone else will help you if you help them. The game isn';t set up to reward anyone for doing that.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:46 am
Ollie was going to lose that hoh anyway.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:49 am
I don't understand why people get so upset when someone lies in the BB GAME. They aren't playing a betting game that requires poker chips or nickels or matchsticks. In BB, they are putting up their WITS. If one player can outwit another, then that player advances. It's simple. In Dan and Ollie's case, Dan found it pretty easy to outwit Ollie because Ollie forgot BB was a game. Remember when Ollie was yelling at Dan after the POV meeting saying stuff like "Do you think this is just a game?" Well, DUH..... Yes, Ollie, it IS "just a GAME"! And I don't understand why people get so upset when a player says "I swear on my kids" (or girlfriend or husband, etc). Saying "I swear" is just a two-word lie. It's a bluff. If a person wants to outwit another player, saying "I swear" is a good way to do it if the player they are saying "I swear" to believes there is some kind of magical curse attached to an "I swear" lie, but the fact is, in BB: swear=lie=bluff=$500,000! The same goes for saying, "I give you my word". If you think someone is lying to you unless they say "I give you my word", why would you think that "I give you my word" couldn't be a lie, as well? The players actually know this, but they don't always apply that knowledge to their game. How many times have we heard a HG say "I don't trust anybody in this game"....only to wind up trusting someone that boots them out of the house? I mean, they aren't in a court of law where swearing to tell the truth and then lying can cause you to wind up in jail. In BB, when you swear to tell the truth and then lie, they give you a half million dollars! Ollie and Kaysar each made a boneheaded move. They were each naive to believe a promise, especially a promise from a member of an opposing alliance in a game of wits who is reaching for a half million dollar carrot!
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Shoe_diva1966
Member
07-21-2005
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:51 am
Chippy I couldn't have said it any better. I totally agree with you. Ollie is not one of the best players or even a favorite of mine but I agree that Dan could have done things differently. I don't like the way he played this HOH at all. It was a low blow in my opinion. But thanks for saying this this the way you did!
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 12:15 pm
Again, it's not the lies. It's not the broken promises. It's not even the language. It's the absence of human emotion. Absence. There is no remorse, even in private. In fact, there is neverending gloating, suppositions about how nuts the method of deception is gonna make someone else, and the grandstanding. Hell, if I only saw Dan talking to Ollie, you could stamp stupid on my forehead along with his cause I would have believed him too. I'm just not so sure being able to lie, decieve, and hurt people like that is a good thing. Not even for 1/2 million bucks.
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Kalekona
Member
06-12-2005
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 12:53 pm
Well I don't see the gloating from Dan but I sure saw it from Ollie and company before the POV meeting. BB is a game-a HEARTLESS game. I'll give you this quote "Show no mercy for you will receive NONE" Anyone playing BB should remember it and follow it. The difference between Ollie and Kaysar for me is easy...Kaysar was trusting and Ollie was greedy. I think the POV speech sounded better in Dan's mind than it came off-I understand part of it, he wanted it clear that they had enemies in that house- He wanted Reny and Ollie to have a wedge between them. The roulette reference was about gambling and taking a chance and that Ollie lost. He followed through on the first two parts of the deal so Ollie would believe he would follow through on the third- keeping Ollie in the dark ensured a true blindside and no chance of anyone messing up the plan. (something that like Keesha said always happens) He showed Michelle that her eviction is really Ollie's fault- the three are just not smart enough to understand that he got Ollie to reveal who he was aligned with. I've seen far nastier moves in this game-Howie's eviction from All-Stars,Allison getting Nathan to use the veto on her then evicting him,Boogie using Erica, Erica allowing herself to be used..the list goes on.. Heck "everyone"s proclaimed Greatest player ever" abused Nicole emotionally until she snapped. But no one seems to have a problem with that but Dan backs out of a "two good to be true" deal, pulls off a true blindside and gets payback for Ollie's betrayal that resulted in Dan's entire alliance being evicted.. And he is heartless and cruel.. "Hate the game not the player"
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 1:28 pm
Ollie was just sour grapes and Kaysar accepted the fact he was played.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 1:39 pm
Dan did the name call-out because he could, he had the power. He intended it to make everyone distrust each other, and take the heat off of him. He also thought it would be fun to mess with people, he wanted the fireworks, the drama. Kind of like pulling legs off of spiders, ya know. I think it's going to backfire on him.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 1:45 pm
ewwww on the spiders but wanting drama is what most of us want, how boring without it. I admit I like my drama without the vulgar things that Michelle, Ollie and Jerry have said. I didn't like the way Dick was vulgar in his season.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 1:56 pm
Another thing, you can't really compare Ollie vs Kaysar thing because Kaysar went home as a result of trusting somebody who he knew he couldn't trust. Ollie was not only suspicious of Dan but before Dan even broke the 3rd of a silly agreement, Ollie was already talking about how he was going to stab Dan in the back. I just hope somebody explains to Ollie how freaking lucky he was in Dan's HOH win. Even if Dan honored the 3rd part and put up Keesha, Jerry would have went home. Jerry needs it explained to him also. Michelle is the only one who really has a gripe about it.
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Darclyte
Member
07-11-2005
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 2:56 pm
Well, there are a few differences. Yes, Dan is more well liked than Jen and has been a better player than her (that was pretty much the only thing that she did that entire season.) When both Jen and Sheila went back on their word, the person they made the promise to ended up getting evicted. That's not happening to Ollie. Jen deliberately lied, she winked at the camera, had her fingers crossed, whatever. Sheila was boondoggled into putting up Natalie. Dan may have fully intended in following through with the 3 part deal. he didn't make a 4th part where Ollie would choose who goes in the event of a tie, so Dan may have originally thought that no matter who was on the block with Jerry, it would be Jerry leaving the house. He may have only changed his mind later when he was thinking clearer and decided that Michelle is a bigger threat than Jerry. So, while in the end they all broke promises made under the stress of an endurance comp, at least Dan was the only one to not have the person on the other end of the promise go out the door that week.
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Foolscap
Member
09-04-2004
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 3:34 pm
Thank you Sanfranjoshfan, Kalekona and the person who started their post talking about Dan saying you had to have icewater in your veins, for expressing pretty much all I've been wanting to say but was too inarticulate. Every season I get baffled by those who want players to characteristics like honor, integrity or humanity. It's just not in the structure of the game. It's like being outraged if someone bluffs while playing poker. Not that a BB player can't possess these desirable characteristics in their real-life dealings, they're just not very smart or appropriate in this game. I also am bewildered when the subject of someone deserving or not deserving to stay/go/be nominated/win/etc. comes up. I just don't feel being deserving is applicable in this situation. The game is an isolated event, not an extension of one's real life. Of course this is just all my opinion.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 3:57 pm
Dan's shennanigans were totally perplexing to the other HGs and to many of us viewers. Some HGs and some viewers think he was mean and went too far just to make "good TV". Now I have one statement and one question: Statement - BB is just a game of wits. Question - Out of the last 45 or so days in BB 10, which day has been the BEST TV yet for us viewers?

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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 4:08 pm
I am going to say Dan's replacement ceremony,lol!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 4:56 pm
Bingo!!!!!
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Gemma120in2002
Member
07-05-2003
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 6:26 pm
Absolutely right Sanfranjoshfan! Dan has given us something to really sink our teeth into. What helped Dan in his replacement roulette game is that Michelle and Ollie both said Keesha and Renny's names with lots of attitude. I would have played it a whole lot differently if I had to say a name. I would have apologized before saying the name and looked sorry for having to say it. It would have made Dan look like a bully, and would have completely changed the whole experience. Michelle and Ollie always had control of how THEY behaved. Someone can tell you that you have to stand on your head and spit out quarters, but you don't have to try to behead someone with each quarter you spit.
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Saguaro
Member
06-21-2005
| Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 9:47 pm
I was not a fan of Kaysar, and I'm not a fan of Dan, so my feeling are different then a lot of others. In BB you never give up HOH for a deal ... You need to win and control your own fate.
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Caprica
Member
02-10-2007
| Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 5:57 am
Ollie played the entire game like he was there on vacation. The only move he made was outing his alliance to his girl friend and that was so she would not get mad at not for game purposes.
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