Author |
Message |
Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 12:43 pm
Df...they're back now. So this one took about forty minutes or so.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 12:54 pm
Thanks Bee, I misspoke - I meant POV "ceremony", not "comp". Doh!
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Darclyte
Member
07-11-2005
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 4:21 pm
I thought I read somewhere that April actually was married for a very short time or something and had it annulled. Which is funny because her CBS bio mentions that she's never been married. Does anyone have any info on this?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 4:47 pm
Darclyte, I believe that getting a marriage "annulled" technically means that it was never really a true marriage in the first place. At least that's how the Catholic Church thinks of annulment.
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Darclyte
Member
07-11-2005
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 4:51 pm
It might be that "technically" it never happened, but in fact it did. So, April was, in fact, married at some point and had it annulled? I wonder why the CBS bio outright lies then? Instead of saying that she'd never been married, it could have just said that she hasn't found the right guy yet.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 4:54 pm
Annulled means it never happened, even if they were married for 25 years and had 5 kids, if they have enough influence to get the annullment then its all good per the church.. However April seems to have been young and it probably was appropriate to grant the annullment.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:05 pm
From dictionary.com LINK an·nul·ment n. An act of annulling. The invalidation of a marriage, as for nonconsummation, effected by means of a declaration stating that the marriage was never valid. ----------------- If a marriage was never valid, then they were never actually "married". As I understand it, that's how the law and the church looks at it. Personally, I agree with you and I think it's a load of BS, but that's one of the loopholes available for people that want to "undo" what they did.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:24 pm
I guess it can be declared that the person lacked "due discretion" as in the case of Rep Joseph Kennedy
quote:The couple was married in 1979 and divorced. Kennedy began annulment proceedings in 1993, but did not wait for their completion before marrying a member of his staff that same year. Rausch-Kennedy said in her epilogue that the marriage tribunal granted the annulment on the grounds that Joseph lacked "due discretion." "In other words, at the time of our marriage, Joe had suffered from a lack of due discretion of such magnitude that he was incapable of marriage and therefore our union had never been valid," she wrote. "Due discretion" is a term often used in annulments.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=4697
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:28 pm
This was later reversed:
quote:BOSTON — The Vatican reversed the annulment of former Rep. Joseph P. Kennedy II's first marriage, a union that had lasted 12 years and produced two sons. Sheila Rauch on Wednesday confirmed a report on Time magazine's Web site that her appeal of the annulment to Rome has succeeded. "I'm very grateful that the marriage was validated," she told The Associated Press. Rauch had sharply criticized the Catholic church for annulling her marriage, alleging in a 1997 book that the Kennedy family's influence in the church had made it possible. Rauch and Kennedy, the eldest son of the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, were granted a civil divorce in 1991.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-20-kennedy-annulment_N.htm
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Darclyte
Member
07-11-2005
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:32 pm
If she stood in front of an official and had a signed document, then she was married. If it was annulled just means that it never happened in the eyes of the law or the church. However, like Britney Spears, she actually WAS MARRIED. There may even be photos or a video as proof that it did, in fact, occur. That is what I am asking. Did she get married and have it annulled? The result of the annulment is that "it never happened" but guess what, it actually DID happen. That's what I'm asking. It's really not a difficult question. Did she get married and have it annulled? There are 2 answers to that question. Yes, she got married and it was annulled. No, she never got married nor had a marriage annulled. I didn't realize that question was like pulling teeth. And yes, annulling a marriage after years and children (like Joe Kennedy did so he could get remarried in the Catholic Church and thereby would make his kids illegitimate) is a bunch of crap. Funny thing about that, Joe Kennedy's first wife, Sheila Rauch Kennedy, had the Vatican overturn the annulment last year! It took her 10 years to get it done. Spur of the moment marriages or those by people much too young probably SHOULD be annulled. Just ask Jason Alexander (Britney's first husband, not the Seinfeld actor.)
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:34 pm
A friend of mine told me that he sees "annulment" was a loophole supported by the Church and often used to get around the Church's ban on divorce so they won't lose parishioners who insist on getting divorced. Btw, my friend is a therapist/counselor that works with the Catholic church and Catholic couples that want an annulment. He documents the couples' "due discretion" and other hard-to-comprehend loopholes that can rewind time and make something that was valid for decades into something that "never happened".
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:37 pm
Dan and Sanfran.. yep.. definitely has grown to be a loophole, esp for influential/wealthy families. But I'm thinking April's and Brittney's probably were better off annulled.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:42 pm
Darclyte, You had said, "I thought I read somewhere that April actually was married for a very short time or something and had it annulled". I was just going by that statement. Other than that statement, I had not heard that April had an annulment. I was mainly commenting on this - "I wonder why the CBS bio outright lies then? " CBS did not lie if April marriage was legally declared "invalid". Her "marriage" would be just as invalid as it would have been if the marriage license she signed was a fake.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:53 pm
I agree with your friend SanFran although there are occasions when an annullment is justified. Darclyte, I understand what you are asking but if the marriage was annulled then she was never married, it NEVER HAPPENED. She may have stood in front of a judge, priest, etc and said some words but what she did/said did not amount to a marriage.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:55 pm
Well, technically they could have put "annulled" but "annulled" also means, according the the link provided above, noun 1. the state of being cancelled So, if it was cancelled...it didn't happen, right?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 6:02 pm
"It's really not a difficult question. Did she get married and have it annulled? " Yes. LINK
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Darclyte
Member
07-11-2005
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 6:22 pm
Thank you!
       
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 6:23 pm
But CBS didn't lie! 
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:19 pm
They didn't lie, they just don't give history in excruciating detail for each HG. They don't mention Jerry's first marriage or Libra's first marriage either.
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Kminfinity
Member
06-29-2005
| Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 2:36 am
I understand that many folks don't look too highly on the idea of an annulment, and I can understand that many see it as a "loophole" but there is a valid religious reason for it. And of course there are people who abuse the process and don't understand it even when they use it. (Not sure if there are such things as civil annulments or what they're based on.) In order to understand the Catholic Church's position on annulment, you need to understand its position on marriage. Marriage is NOT merely a civil contract where two people agree to join together. It is a sacrament that signifies the two people are spiritually bound. An annulment is NOT a severing of the bonds of marriage, it is saying that there never was that spiritual bond in the first place, hence the sacrament of marriage never existed. The reason this idea exists is because, according to Catholic teaching, you can only be married ONCE...to put it in romance novel language, you only have one soul-mate. I know some people might see this as an unimportant distinction, but Catholics (such as I) do believe that marriage is more than "a piece of paper" or a legal arrangement. Therefore, breaking the legal contract, which the marriage license represents, is represented by a legal divorce. So, what do you do if you find you married the wrong guy? You get a divorce - but if you had a religious ceremony, the divorce is only breaking the civil bonds. The annulment doesn't "break the spiritual bond" - it says it never existed, so you are free to marry in church again as a way of announcing, "Here's my soulmate." Sorry this is so long, bit it's a complex concept and I've barely touched on it. }
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Screaminatthetv
Member
08-15-2008
| Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 8:09 am
quick q...did anyone find the feed of april offering dan the alleged 5G??
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Vic557
Member
01-03-2007
| Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 9:22 am
What was Renny's cd she got for HOH? Sorry if it was posted, but just now thought about what she got.
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Wargod
Moderator
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 9:24 am
Ella Fitzgerald. Ollie and I think someone else had no idea who she was.
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Archiecat
Member
08-16-2006
| Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 9:29 am
Scream, April did offer money, I can't find the feed of the actual amount. However: 1. April did offer money 2. Ollie offered money in her behalf 3. Michelle being well aware of the offer discussed it at length with Dan 4. April is still saying to Jerry and Ollie she would have given him money and clothes 5. Michelle made up the lie that she heard April tell Ollie no to the money. (Michelle is trying to discredit Dan) 6. Jerry did not offer Dan money in the SR. He gave an apology for the Judas comment. I hope all this comes out and heads roll....poor Dan!!
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Archiecat
Member
08-16-2006
| Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 9:30 am
Why are we questioning each other for something lots of us witnessed?? Its Creeezzzy! (per Keesha, LOL)
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