Author |
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Hootyhoot
Member
12-18-2001
| Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 6:57 am
I agree about the skimpy clothing. When I have been to other countries, I've always followed the clothing guidelines offered in travel guides. Keeping arms and legs covered is often mentioned ... I have never seen "keep your breasts covered" but I think until now, that was assumed to be common sense! I was also surprised by the skimpy attire on women on The Apprentice. Do businesswomen really wear strapless tops in their daily lives? However, if I should be reincarnated and have another shot at being 22, you can be sure I'd be wearing the skimpiest flirtiest fashions I could find! But not to Asia and Africa!
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Alisons
Member
01-10-2003
| Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 7:36 pm
Hoot - certainly the women I work with do NOT wear strapless tops! As for wearing a strapless or revealing top on TAR - I would think that would be pretty silly since some of those roadblocks and detours are pretty physical.
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 7:46 pm
Agree with comments about the TAR attire, as well as Apprentice!!
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 2:15 pm
Karuuna: my opinion doesn't come from other people's experiences, or considered educated opinions....just from my own true life experiences, which is what I've said from the start. So if you wish to state my life experiences are incorrect, that's your choice. To me they are the truth.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 3:51 pm
Kep, please excuse my clumsiness in making myself clear. I posted poorly and inarticulately, and I sincerely apologize. As I tried to say above, I have no doubt your experience is accurate, and is true for many abused women. All I'm saying is that it is not true for ALL abused women. There are several different patterns of abusive behavior and reactions to it. The type you posted about is one kind, and the kind we most often think about when we consider physical abuse. But there are other readily identifiable patterns as well, and Jon and Victoria fit one of those patterns, from what I have seen of them on the show. Again, my apologies for my lack of clarity in my earlier post. By saying *some* of your information was incorrect, I was not trying to say your experience was, but that it would be incorrect to assume that is the only pattern of behavior that is accurately labeled abuse.
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 7:28 pm
i agree with some of kep's post but disagree that jon is not an abuser. and sometimes a brave partner will scream something out at the other person...just not when they are alone with them. when i wanted to say something to my abusive spouse it was with others around, where i felt safe...especially if we weren't going to be alone right afterward. if we were under a cameraman's eye for 30 days, i would probably get a few things out there i wouldn't dare do if former hubby and i were going to shortly be alone! just my view on things. i don't live with victoria and jon (thank God!), but there are some classic signs out there. maybe this show will do it for them. jon will get help for his behavior and victoria will get help for being a 'victim/enabler' and they can continue on with a good life. right now, it sucks. plain and simple, it sucks. call me 'been there, done that'.
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:14 am
On the CBS website, you can play a clip of V talking about the whole backpack incident. She said he is relentless in his pursuit to tell her she is wrong and she'll never hear the end of it about not coming in first on that leg, especially if they do not come in first on any leg during this race. I feel so bad for her. She had such logical reasons why she picked up his backpack. She also says she was carrying more weight than he was, she had a fanny pack and a medical pack plus her backpack. I totally agree with Tabby about not saying things while alone with an abuser and saying things while around others especially if you know you won't be alone with the abuser for awhile. There are different levels of abuse. Abuse is wrong on every level.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 12:11 pm
Victoria: "Don't worry, I am fine;" producer says he "warned" Jonathan. Three days after her husband Jonathan's post to their web site defending his behavior on last week's The Amazing Race 6, Victoria Fuller has responded with a message of her own. During the episode, she screamed, "Jon, stop it!" Sunday, she wrote, Don't worry, I am fine. Its a TV show and not a true reflection of our relationship. We both over reacted. Victoria The next episode airs tonight at 8 p.m. ET on CBS; we'll see the aftermath, which will probably be anything ranging from producers ignoring the incident altogether to Phil kicking them off the show. Today, The New York Post reports that executive producer Bertram van Munster says, "I had many conversations with him. I told him you've got to tone it down, you have to stop this kind of stuff, it's not cool -- until then, I'd never given advice to a reality show player before to chill out." van Munster also says that he "warned him over and over again, but if he doesn't want to listen, there's nothing I can do about it." As to a response, van Munster "had a very firm talk with him that night. But he keeps on being Jonathan, although there's no more pushing and shoving, I can tell you that." http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 1:35 pm
Well at least it's good to hear that "there's no more pushing and shoving". I don't mind a little conflict in the teams, but this is far over the top. I'm still watching one of the best shows on TV though (AR) - no way am I giving up on this one!
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Watching2
Member
07-07-2001
| Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 1:59 pm
The description in our weekly TV book of tonight's episode says "They should probably get some counseling." Ya think?!! The thing is, I don't think they should have shown us this in their editing if they weren't going to show us them dealing with it. It just makes the whole show look irresponsible and low class, something we enjoyed it NOT being previously!
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Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 4:02 pm
Abuse is abuse is abuse, no matter the degree of severity. If Jonathan can abuse (that's the only word for it) Victoria in public and on camera the way he does, it scares me to to think what he has done to her in private. There are men who stroke their own egos by treating women badly in public. For some reason I have not figured out yet, they can't seem to realize that they are making theirself look bad, not the woman. As for Victoria, it is very easy to sit back and say "no man would ever do that to me," but, speaking from experience, that can be a lot easier said than done. She has the classic "it's all my fault" syndrome. If you were to dig into her past, she probably has some big self-esteem issues and this is probably not the first abusive relationship she has been and it might not be the last.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 5:02 pm
Yes, Native there are many abusers who think they look macho when they abuse. Yet there are many more who have no clue how badly they treat their victims, and usually they tend to minimize how bad it was. Jonathon seems to fit in this mold, making excuses and acting as if he's not at all out of line; and often their victims do the same. The good news is that often when they see themselves on film they really do start to get a clue. Perhaps this is a great wake up call for both of them. I truly hope so, for both of them.
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Fruitbat
Member
08-07-2000
| Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 5:21 pm
I think this will happen Karuuna. I really do. Victoria could have the biggest realization. Jonathan's ego may go to the "foul editing route" but hers won't.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 4:08 am
I tell ya one thing! Jon's behaviour got that one cabbie furious enough to boot them out of his cab. If Jon continues to harrass and verbally abuse people working in their OWN country he may find himself arrested by the police for causing a disturbance (or harrassment). GAK! My memory sux at this time of the morning but remember that one guy who ended up being taken right to the police station?? If I recall correctly it was ALL about him and his mouthing off to the wrong person. I can only hope that Jon and Victoria do NOT WIN THIS RACE! I am soooooo tempted to read the spoilers but NO...I dont want to ruin the ending. But I may do it if the show starts looking like it is going to be them. SIGH!! This is the first time EVER that the episode has been a two parter. I found it VERY awkward to be left hanging as to whom is going to be eliminated. Hopefully this is not the way the show will continue.
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