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Archive through December 18, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Amazing Race Archives: Amazing Race VI: AR General Discussions: ***TONIGHT'S SHOW 12/14-SPOILERS***: Archive through December 18, 2004 users admin

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Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 7:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Possibly Seamonkey... its entirely possible that's the case, because I don't personally know these people or how their relationship works. But I'm basing my opinion on J's self absorbtion.

From my experience, I see abusive people as manipulative and are all about the other person's feelings and making them feel as bad and as low life as possible. Abusive people also tend to keep up appearances. Ever hear anyone say this line: "They appeared to be so happy!!" after learning about someone beating up their spouse? Most times, no one ever has a clue, except those in the immediate family.

Immature and spoiled people are all about their own feelings and getting what they want. They don't care what anyone else needs or wants. J doesn't seem to care about anyone's feelings but his own. He didn't get the trip he wanted, therefore he had to lash out and make it someone elses fault. Also immature and spoiled people don't care what other's think because its all about them. J didn't even realize that Phil was disgusted by his behavior. He can't see past his own feelings to recognize others.

I don't see J as having the self control to be a cognizant abuser. He's just to wrapped up in himself. An abuser KNOWS what he is doing to the other person. An abuser needs to see and feel their victim's misery in order to forget their own.

J can't see or feel anything past his own feelings and disappointments. He literally has no clue that his behavior is affecting V this way. He also doesn't care, because you see, its all about HIM!!!

Like I said tho...just a take on things based on my own experiences.

Slimc21
Member

11-17-2004

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 10:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Johnathan is abusive and I think they are showing this for a reason....surely it will come back to bite him in the but on the show. A penalty os some sort I hope, but AR is a great show and Jon/Vic..Kendra wouldn't and couldn't be winners if they are showing the ugliest part of them. I know they have showed some ugly sides b4 (Colin) and yes there has been a winner who wasnt as well liked...forgot her name...the best friend team and the girl was soooo whiny. But she wasnt abusive...so hopefully a spoiler for everyone....these type of personalities can't win. Go Kendra/Jon and Gus/Hera!

Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 10:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Agreed that it's unlikely they win (unless there's some major redemption going on but unlikely).

By the way, that would be Zach and Flo. She was pretty whiny but this was more than off-set by Zach's determination and good attitude.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 1:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
How much you want to bet he apologizes profusely and she accepts the apology and she takes the blame for making him mad.

That is a typical reaction from the abuser (apologetic) and the abused (accepting the apology).

On my commute home from work yesterday I tuned in WGN a Chicago talk radio and the topic was Jon and Victoria. I only caught the tail end but man were people pissed. Any a local TV station did a blurb on the push talking about the responsibility that CBS might have if the is a more severe incident in the future part of the race.


Marej
Member

09-20-2002

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 3:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
This outburst was for coming in 2nd place. He was acting like it was last place. Very hard to watch. He reminds me of Jase from BB.


Konamouse
Member

07-16-2001

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm just trying to imagine the repercussion from Jonathon towards Victoria when (hopefully) they do come in last and are eliminated. Someone better put her in protective custody or hold him behind bars for a few weeks for him to cool off.

'squeek'

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 6:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Kona, we were talking about that at work today. At the fact that he was acting like a total jerk, and they were in SECOND PLACE and no, it was NOT the last leg where second place is really bad! And wondering what the heck would happen if he came in second place (or, <gasp>, worse) for the final leg.

I don't care to pick him apart, but he scares me. I've seen that kind of 'tude, and I don't enjoy watching it on TV (on one of my fav shows). If this continues, I doubt if I'll continue to watch this season. Between Jonathan and Kendra, I'm not enjoying this race at all.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 6:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
P.S. Headbutt back at ya, Sea! Purrrr.....

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 6:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Reader, sorry I used the word "hate" but I said I don't hate them so much.. anyway I also said I liked them as a couple and so on.

But I do not agree that there wasn't a slime factor going to ask others to fund them.. since it essentially caught them up to every one. Surely they weren't the only tourists at that site .. no I didn't expect them to ask the locals for money. Anyway, I am satisfied that they didn't manage to use someone's money to help beat them, that's all.

Apparently they failed to even read the entire clue for the church, so they didn't have any idea about the Fist sculpture.. so they did themselves in once again, I guess.

As for no one having a gun to the other's heads, well no, but they had a big camera in their face.. not too easy to turn them down, knowing full well that it would be included on the show. I just question it as more than a bit unfair.



Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 9:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Some of us keep worrying about what will happen if they are eliminated. I'll give you a hint (not a spoiler - everyone knows this). The show is taped. It may be ugly (I don't know) but Victoria is still alive and they are still together and apparently laughing about it. I'm sure we all know that. It is her choice that she is still with him. Oh sure, people will say that it may be hard to leave an abusive relationship but I know many people who have done that successfully, if they actually feel strongly enough about it and are willing to accept the short-term difficulty in favour of the long-term benefits. Having said that, I personally feel more than a little sick over the way he treats her - but ultimately it is her choice.

On a different topic, a lot of people seemed to like and be rooting for Don and Mary Jean but I found that their actions and attitude at times made them the least likeable of the older contestants to be on any AR. They bickered a lot, they seemed to want some special treatment because of their age and they asked the other players for money and felt fine about taking more than they needed.

Back to J/V unfortunately. There are some great teams in this event. I hope they are not completely over-shadowed by J/V. What a shame that a great show had to take this turn.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Kep421, I would call Johnathan pulling the car over, forcing Victoria to drive, and then yanking her back out manipulative and an attempt to make her feel like crap. Also, I would call Johnathan continuing to berate Victoria, after Phil tells him to go talk to her, a further attempt by J to make V feel as low as possible.

In prior episodes there have been a variety of examples of this type of behavior.

IMO, if he isn't hitting her yet, he will.

Tabbyking
Member

03-11-2002

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
my guess? he already is.

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 5:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I agree that J's actions are abusive in nature. I'm just not totally convinced his mindset is set on purposely abusing V. All of his outbursts stem from him not being allowed to have his way. He reminds me of a teenaged drama queen.

And it was V who said she couldn't drive and got out. She couldn't drive because J was berrating her from the back seat. J was yelling and screaming because she wasn't letting him drive (in his mind). In my opinion, an abuser wouldn't have given up control of the car to V in the first place. If V has been truly abused in the past,(as some seem to think) she never would have said anything to J about his driving. She would have immediately shut her mouth in the back to avoid being backhanded.

Abusers are usually in total control of their victims. J isn't capable of controlling anything, including himself. Also, V doesn't really give off the vibes of an abused person in my book. She doesn't appear to be afraid to speak up and argue with him. Trust me, abused women do not argue with their abusive men.

If V were to leave J, I don't see J as someone who would stalk her and make attempts to maim or kill. I see him throwing a hissy and tantrum, screaming at the top of his lungs, berrating the world because he now has to do things for himself.

I know this isn't a popular notion because J is such a dispicable person right now. Personally, I don't like J, I think he's a total jerk and doesn't deserve any woman, even if she was a playboy bunny. But I'm not ready to lable him an abuser. Been there, and J doesn't even have the qualifications for that title. Not even close.

Ar_jammer
Member

11-17-2004

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 6:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I miss the bowling moms and chip and kim.

Karuuna
Member

08-31-2000

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 10:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Actually, Victoria couldn't drive because she couldn't reach the pedals. She asked Jon to help her adjust the seat, but instead he yanked her out and said something like "you can't do anything right!" and got in to drive again himself. She was back in the back seat saying "why won't you ever help me when I ask?"

Victims of emotional and physical abuse often yell and argue back. In fact, it is not at all unusual to escalate the fight in order to get back to the honeymoon period afterward.

Kep, I don't know where you are getting your information, but some of it is clearly incorrect. I did work in a battered women's shelter for many years, first as a woman's counselor, than as a children's counselor.

And it is not at all unusual for women to laugh about the events later, it's part of the denial.

Many men do not *purposefully* abuse, as much as they don't know any other way to relate, and they are unable to control their aggresive impulses. Many are genuninely sorry afterward.

There are certainly also other abuse situations where the women become more timid, but that is often in the later stages of extreme physical abuse. I don't see J & V as being at that stage. JMO.

Not all abuse situations are identical, there are many kinds of abusers and many kinds of victims. I don't know that we can surmise that he has ever hit her, or ever will, but J & V clearly fit a pattern of consistent, ongoing emotional abuse, which is again, JMO.



Chieko
Member

11-20-2003

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 7:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
On another front, am I just a prude or was anyone else uncomfortable with the amount of cleavage some of these women were showing. I know they were in Africa and it is hot but I found it distracting and disrespectful. At home in USA okay, but not traveling in foreign countries.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 8:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I am definitely NOT a prude, and I am definitely mostly offended at the top that Hayden is wearing. I swear it looks like she's gonna flop right outta there (flop being the true operative word for dangly things).

I've thought that in the past, though, too... Showing shoulders or knees is a sign of disrespect in many countries.

Jimmer, I wasn't a fan of D & MJ either. I thought Don tried too often to get the advantage in a situation because of his age. The money thing this time just set me off about them. I didn't like how they bragged about how smart they were but yet didn't show much of that same smarts (standing in front of a church and not in front of the fist sculpture).

I miss Chip and Kim and the Bowling Moms, too! I think they tried too hard this season, and went over the top with casting. Too many wannabe's (models, actors). Too many "out there" personalities (Lori/Bolo, V/J). What happened to NORMAL???? (Those casting folks should've picked ME dammit!)

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 9:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Add me to the "afraid Hayden is gonna flop right out of that top." Its not even really showing cleavage. Its more like the top is just gonna fall right off of her.

Something just occurred to me about Victoria. Everyone is talking about how she is laughing about the show and Jonathon's antics on their website. How can we be 100% sure she is the one typing those entries?

Gina8642
Member

06-01-2001

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 9:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
These contestents often wear clothing that is quite inappropriate for the country/areas they are in. Hayden is taking it to an all new level, because I consider that top to be inappropriate for the country I'm in. LOL!!!! I know they want to dress light and simple - but that is taking it a bit too far.

The money thing with Don and MJ didn't bother me in the least. They didn't plan on everyone being so generous with them, once it happened it would have been worse to start trying to return it fairly. Who's money do you keep, who gets what in return? Just complicated, better to keep your mouth shut. Still Don and MJ weren't my favorites either. Just because they are old, I should like them? MJ was determined to point out Don's mistakes to him. Don tried to get the Ikea folks to give him the answers. They took the wrong car etc. I certainly don't dislike them, but I didn't find them completely endearing either. On the other hand, there arn't exactly masses of likable couples on this season and Don and MJ were certainly more likable than most still left.

Chieko
Member

11-20-2003

Friday, December 17, 2004 - 10:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Gina, ditto everything you said. That is exactly how I feel about Hayden and that is exactly how I feel about D and MJ.
I feel better knowing you feel the same about the clothing Costacat and Whoami!



Ar_jammer
Member

11-17-2004

Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 3:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Missed this place in my list of links… finally got to watch the episode again thanks to a friend who taped it.. I messed it up.

Brauhaus Spandau
http://www.brauhaus-spandau.de/

and they have a Spandau Spring festival
http://www.istc.org/sisp/?fx=event&event_id=42088



Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 3:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
WOW thx to the earlier people who posted interesting history about Canada and Slavery.
French and British Citizens brought their customs to North America. Slavery was very accepted there.

For years I used to think it was just Africans who became slaves but Natives and Irish originally were treated as slave-labour as well. When Britain Controlled Ireland they pretty well took over the peoples as well.

July 1st 1867 is the date that CANADA the independant country was formed. In 1793 Upper Canada became the first territory in the British Empire to legislate the gradual abolition of slaveryIt is fascinating that Slavery was being abolished almost 100 yrs before the USA.

I am not sure about the suggestion stands up to scrutiny that the USA needed the slaves for the cottoncrops. There was need for TONS of labour in Canada....farming, building the Crosscountry railroad. We had many many immigrant Chinese / japanese which formed the ranks of most of the important projects of the time period. unfortunately, it seems they were not treated as Equals to the caucasians, in wages or dignity. They might have been free but Freedom is only a concept.



Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 3:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
ON TOPIC!! LOL Those girls need to COVER UP!! I'd like to see what would happen to them on a train in India ROTFL. talk about asking for it ((to be taken tongue in cheek))

Ar_jammer
Member

11-17-2004

Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 4:11 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I would think wearing clothes like that has the potential of being detrimental to the overall challenge of the race. But then again... being a man... I have no idea

Alisons
Member

01-10-2003

Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 6:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Also with regard to the slave trade - one of the most disgusting facets of the whole thing to me comes from the fact that many slaves were sold into slavery by competing tribes in Africa on the Ivory Coast. It was not just Americans or Canadians oppressing the slaves but also other Africans.

Jonathon - I would hope that seeing himself doing this stuff on camera would bring him to some self-revealing moments, but based on what is on his website, I doubt it. I hope that Victoria goes for counseling at least on her own if she cannot get him to go. I think it is a total anger managment issue - he gets angry and lashes out at the closest thing to him - Victoria.

Kendra is making a total fool of herself with her comments. UGH.