Author |
Message |
Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:28 am
Sometimes as viewers we tend to project our own feelings onto the events that we are seeing. Before we all get to caught up in this, lets take a breath. Ultimately we more or less know what happens. Jon and Victoria finish the race (in some manner), they are still together and they held a big party for the other participants to celebrate the race. A quote from Victoria: “I cracked up when I watched Jonathan and I on the race I crowned us the Bickersons lol. And NO I am not really going to change my name. I thought it was fast paced and thrilling to see what all the other racer experienced. I was sure glad to know the other teams had their issues too.” While I find it distasteful to watch, I’m enjoying the other aspects of the show and I’m just not about to lose sleep over this at this point.
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Neko
Member
08-03-2001
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:30 am
"I can't believe she didn't even know what a beer stein was" I don't know what a beer stein is either...
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Gen
Member
08-22-2003
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:31 am
Good point, Tvwatcher! If he loses control over not being in first place, what is he going to do when they are kicked off?
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:51 am
no apology needed, eeyore, but thank you anyway! it was a long time ago, and i left early on...the first time i went to a hospital. there had only been little (to other people's minds) pushes and slaps and horrible verbal threats up to then. but i did not let it go on... i was married 30 days. his violence escalated that fast from a knock here and there to full-blown murderous rage. the doctor who treated me in the e.r. told my friend, "if she goes home, you'll be at her funeral within a week". and yes, the violator always blames the victim. (i was home 5 minutes late from work; someone looked at me in a restaurant; i didn't get up fast enough to make him something to eat at 3:00 a.m. so he "had to" put the gun to my head, etc.) but the victim can quit being an enabler/victim by getting the guts to get out. unfortunately, leaving has its own risks. i agree with tvwatcher about jon's reaction had they been eliminated. it would have been all victoria's 'fault'. i love the couples whose parting speeches include their admiration and love for their teammate and how wonderful the experience was and they truly mean it!
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:54 am
i am also thinking we will see less of jon's 'anger' because i am betting dollars to krispy kremes that production had a talk with him mid-race...
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:56 am
Soooo.....still wondering.....does anyone know about how long the total race lasts, in real time? I'm still wondering, in relation to Jon's quote of being in the race for 30 days. If someone said that in Survivor, we'd know they made it to 6th or whatever. Anyone else care to speculate?
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Crossfire
Member
08-07-2001
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 10:02 am
If I may interrupt, if anyone does know the answer to that, I don't want to know. Spoiler thread
<-Happy wink...no fighting. 
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 10:12 am
do they go right home when they are eliminated or are they sequestered so people at home don't know when someone was eliminated until the race actually ends. maybe they keep the people somewhere and send them all home at the end...??? i think the teams may have to sign something that they won't give away any results until the show airs. i recall emailing back and forth with aaron when his race was airing several TAR's ago and he couldn't say which episode he and arianne were eliminated because that episode hadn't aired yet.
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Gina8642
Member
06-01-2001
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:06 am
I think not knowing what a beer stein is is a good thing. Means you probably don't drink a lot and you probably don't come from an area with a german background. I think it's amazing all the vocabulary I've picked up since I was in my early 20s, yet I was smart enough at 18 to get into one of the top schools in the nation. Some things just come with time. I'm a bit depressed reading all these posts. Sometimes I think folks watch these shows just so we can feel superior to the participants. I think most of the conclusions about people and their behaviors and just such exaggerations based on what actually happened. Make an insensitve comment - therefore you are a racist. Not just tired and whinny. Get p.o.'d at your spouse for losing a leg - you are now a wife beater. Not just someone with a temper and a cruddy attitude when stressed. (As I'm sure everyone posting here are absolute angels when tired and stressed.) Get a grip people, back off a bit and enjoy the show. These are just people, not criminally horrid people.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:08 am
Thank you crossfire!!!
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:26 am
i didn't say jon was a wife-beater. he has struck out at her a few times, which i find unacceptable. just my opinion. i have a grip, and do enjoy this show... but i would enjoy this show more with this couple eliminated.
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Jasper
Member
09-14-2000
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:30 am
Gina, I think people are up in arms, because of the pattern of behaviour we see as viewers. Kendra has made many comments that make her look like "the ugly American" as well if I remember correctly Freddy was the one who shorted not one but two cabbies. Too me when you are a visitor you should be respectful, had I been Kendra's cabby I would have been sorely tempted after her "breeding" comment to dump her on the side of the road. Everyone could see the conditions but she should have used some discretion in her comments. And Jonathon, well the thoughts of many were written all over Phil's face imo.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:42 am
When I see abusive behavior I call it out. Pushing your wife angrily and with might along with the verbal abuse is beyond the norm. I can’t keep quiet about that. No matter how anyone wants to spin this...Jon was way out of line. That incident actually could have criminal assault charges brought against him…not that Victoria would ever do that. I was just pointing out that he did assault his wife and CBS and A/R didn’t seem too concerned. Maybe some people are more use to this type of behavior and therefore see it as “normal”…but I don’t. Obviously Victoria doesn’t have a problem with abuse either verbal or physical. In one of the earlier legs of this race Jon (in a Taxi) wound up his right arm as if he wanted to backhand her. He stopped midway. I couldn’t believe that, either. Make light of the situation but domestic violence does escalate. People turn a blind eye often... nothing too surprising about that.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:44 am
I think Jon is guilty of emotional abuse at the very minimum. The horribly derogatory comments he makes to her are unacceptable in any situation, even the stress of the race. When I'm tired and stressed, I'm grownup enough to know it. And I would never speak to another adult like he speaks to Victoria. And since when is not having a German background a good thing? 
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:48 am
I wonder who Jonathan was talking to at the very end right after Phil told him to talk to Vic...he said something like "this is a race and not a time for compassion..." He was looking at someone behind him--not victoria. Makes me think it was maybe a producer??? Kendra's "third-world ghetto" comment was almost as bad as her "they keep breeding comment." I think Jonathan is also lucky that his push didn't actually knock Victoria down.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:50 am
..and to think I was getting warm fuzzy feelings from Jonathan when he gave Don & Mary Jean the $20.00...
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:55 am
You are right Jasper - Phil's face "said it all."
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Prisonerno6
Member
08-31-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 12:05 pm
quote:Jonathan took his own risk,...
But it wasn't his own risk, since it would have affected Victoria and their ability to win the race in the long run. He was concerned about winning that leg only. Perhaps it was in the editing, but it seemed they knew they weren't going to come in last if Freddy and Kendra beat them on that leg. Jonathon wanted to win that leg of the race, regardless of the long term cost of losing his backpack, and did it without thinking of how he was affecting his team mate. Did he really think they would have stood a chance of winning the whole thing if he lost his backpack less than halfway through the race? Victoria knew they couldn't risk that, but he couldn't admit she was right. Ugh. So not impressed with that man.
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Prisonerno6
Member
08-31-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 12:08 pm
Oh, and about the crying... I never even imagined she was crying because they were going to come in second. I assumed she was crying because her husband had basically abandoned her to run ahead, dropped his pack without thinking, and left her to try to catch up. Add on utter physical exhaustion, and that's a recipe for hysterical tears in my book. Winning or losing the leg wouldn't matter.
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Backgammonjane
Member
02-27-2004
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 12:11 pm
i am starting to think victoria came on the show with him so that the abuse would be out in the open her friends and family would see it without her telling them...this looks like its been going on for years but victoria stood quiet but now he gave himself away....
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Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 12:23 pm
Gina8642: Very often I agree with your posts and I do get the point you're making. I also try to give the contestants the benefit of the doubt if at all possible. Remember, I defended Colin & Christie, LOL! I felt bad for Wil (of the infamous Wil/Tara duo) at times. I actually liked the Guidos (except for the airport incident). But even I have to admit that my patience with this crew is shot. I don't follow the Nielsen (sp?) ratings but do know that the press has reported that after years of obscurity, TAR has finally broken through and become a commercial hit during TAR5 & TAR6. It's just disappointing to me that this success has come only after the show added a deliberately divisive element (the horrible, horrible Yield) and the most obnoxious group of contestants ever. Sure, every season has had its "bad guys" but...jeez. Rebecca's thoughtless and ignorant comment was bad but Kendra's multiple comments were far worse. Especially since she displayed that same ugly attitude in the previous episode. It's very rare for me to have an active dislike of a racer but I just can't stand her. If this gets me modded (for what I think would be the first time ever), so be it. I have never said anything about J&V before. I'd prefer to leave it that way but after what I saw last night, I guess I can't. I had given him credit for his occasional flashes of generosity (whether it was sincere or calculating) as well as for the times he hooked up with locals. Of course it was all for his own benefit, but it did show that he respected these people and recognized that they could help him. I know that may not seem like much but it is an improvement over how some racers have reacted to locals in poorer areas. But I was very upset by what happened during the dash for the Pit Stop. I don't think it's right to assume there is physical abuse in J&V's relationship but there certainly seems to be emotional battering and verbal abuse. Watching him shove her and listening to her wail have ruined this show for me. I'm not comfortable watching this sleazy spectacle. It's such a shame because there's been some fantastic challenges this season and Gus & Hera's reaction to the door of no return was one of the most heartwrenching and quietly thought-provoking moments ever. P.S. I kinda miss the days when the biggest TAR debate was over Phil's "blouses", LOL.
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Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 12:34 pm
Almost the entire leg, J was yelling at V about one thing or another. Insisting anything but first wasn't good enough. Complains that other teams are following them. Screaming at her to hurry up when he sees another team. And let's not forget the scene during the drive. Yelling at her because she can't find the map. Then angrily pulling the car over and telling her to drive. Then when she couldn't reach the pedals, instead of helping her adjust the seat, he screams at her again about how she can't "do anything right" and makes her get in the back again. Then screaming at her again and again because she picked up his pack. After he was whining about not being able to run with it on. Never caring that she was torn between being afraid of his reaction at being second, and equally afraid of his reaction if his pack was stolen. That's not just stress. That's a continuing pattern of abusive, derogatory behavior. No wonder she was sobbing by the time she got to the checkpoint.
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Shelb724
Member
10-20-2002
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 2:38 pm
it was weird, for most of the race last night (12/14), i was thinking that he had actually calmed down a little, especially during the sausage making. that in itself seemed like an improvmeent to me. but when they got out and saw other teams coming, i could see the meltdown coming. and the ending was incredible. i just went on the cbs website to see if phil's diaries was updated, its not, but that should be pretty interesting when it does come up.
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 2:43 pm
Neko: Main Entry: stein Pronunciation: 'stIn Function: noun Etymology: probably from German Steingut stoneware, from Stein stone + Gut goods Date: 1855 : a large mug (as of earthenware) used especially for beer; also : the quantity of beer that a stein holds I thought steins always had tops on them, but the ones we saw last night just seemed like large, heavy, glass beer mugs.
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 2:55 pm
There are people in abusive relationships who are desperately trying to get away and have very limited options. I truly feel bad for them. I have the highest respect for anyone who has removed herself from an abusive relationship. However, my sympathy is somewhat tempered for women who seem to go after the “bad boy”. I know some very nice decent guys who absolutely couldn’t get a date and yet the same women would be thrilled about going out with the bad guy down the street. While I’m not about to let Victoria’s and Jon’s relationship stress me out and ruin the show for me, it’s a shame that it has become such a focal point. I agree that I’d much rather be laughing over Gus’ obsession with the beer.
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