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Archive through April 20, 2005

The TVClubHouse: Amazing Race ARCHIVES: Amazing Race VII: AR Teams: Lynn & Alex: ARCHIVES: Archive through April 20, 2005 users admin

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Kimmykm
Member

08-26-2003

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 8:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Pen - Bravo!!!

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 9:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Sorry, but there IS something wrong with letting those thoughts stay in your mind. Thoughts become words, words become actions, etc. If you are having negative stereotypes about different groups that always pop into your mind, the best thing to do would be to educate yourself to the truth or at the very least do something to erase those negative thoughts.

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 10:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
exactly ladytex

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 12:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I couldn't agree more, Ladytex. Stereotyping is what leads to prejudice.

I continually see it in my soon-to-be-ex (who happens to be - how can I say this without getting in trouble - a prime example of what Kelly called Ron - just look up the term in the dictionary and you'll see his picture) and he is trying to pass on those beliefs to our son. Except for the educating part. If he had to learn something, that would mean he might be wrong. I do my best to counter what he says.

Kimmykm
Member

08-26-2003

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 12:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
"Stereotyping is what leads to prejudice?"

Where did you get this information from? I tend to believe it's quite the opposite.

Native_texan
Member

08-24-2004

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 1:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I did not get the information from any source. That is my opinion. But, never being one to say I'm always right (just most of the time), I did do a search of the term "prejudice" and have posted a link to the first hit.

http://uhavax.hartford.edu/misovich/prej1.htm

Penpoint
Member

03-27-2001

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 3:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Native_texan, you illustrated my point when you said:

"I continually see it in my soon-to-be-ex (who happens to be - how can I say this without getting in trouble - a prime example of what Kelly called Ron - just look up the term in the dictionary and you'll see his picture) and he is trying to pass on those beliefs to our son. Except for the educating part. If he had to learn something, that would mean he might be wrong. I do my best to counter what he says.

It is a tribute to your character that you are able to see individual traits over group traits, where your son's father is unable to.

And groups do have traits, which is the reason we have stereotypes. A stereotype exists because enough individuals in the group exhibit that particular trait. And stereotypical traits are not all negative; there are just as many positive stereotypical traits that a group exhibits. I don't think we can bury our heads in the sand and somehow expect that we shouldn't recognize group traits. And in saying this, I'm not promoting stereotypes or prejudice. I'm just drawing the distinction between groups and individuals.


Teachmichigan
Member

07-22-2001

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 7:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Yes - -for example, the stereotype that all teachers are fabulously fun people who know how to spell well! LOL

(Sorry -- couldn't resist) Most of the time I laugh at Lynn and Alex -- but I missed the comments mentioned here. Not sure how I would respond w/out actually hearing them say it. I do think it's important that we're aware of our own prejudices -- then we can combat them!

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Friday, April 08, 2005 - 8:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Even "good" stereotypes can be harmful at times.

"Black people all have rhythm"
"Black people are natural athletes"

How does it feel to be a clumsy black kid who can't dance? Heck I know how it felt to be a clumsy white kid who can't dance but at least I didn't have people just expecting me to be a certain way.

"All the asian kids are studious and smart and get good grades"

How does it feel to be the unstudious asian son or daughter?

One example from last night on Survivor..

Gay boys can't compete physically, athletically and thus aren't encouraged in that way, or chosen for teams or are teased so that they run away instead of really trying.. says Coby of Survivor (and other gay men I know) and yet clearly, Coby is one of the strongest, both physically AND mentally, on that team.

What are some others?

Ladytex, yes, exactly what I meant. When we just naturally make generalizations about a group, or are taught such generalizations, then it behooves us to get to know one, then two, then more members of that group and bust those myths.

And yes, Pen, some traits do exist in groups, but even then we need to engage on an individual level and not assume.

I was guilty at one time of assuming that certain groups would be Buddhist. For years I went to the Obon festivals at the Buddist churches in So Cal. And I was surprised that my sister in law had never been to such an event.. well, DUH, she's Japanese, but her family isn't Buddhist.

Stereotypes foster expectations and misunderstanding.

Penpoint
Member

03-27-2001

Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 10:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Seamonkey, we agree that stereotypes of groups can lead to expectations or prejudging of individuals. So what are we going to do about it? Stereotypes exist, people have particular images in their minds of particular groups, and those images are not just going to go away, especially by mandate. The funny thing is that sometimes "Politically Correct" wording to avoid stereotypical labelling has a way of bringing the stereotypes more prominently to mind. It's sort of like using blanks or other characters to represent some letters in expletives (f**king is an example) -- all it does is make you think of that word!

I think the sensible thing to do is to recognize that there are group traits and not get all hung up on them. You know, the little black girl who has no rhythm and the young Asian guy who is more athletic than intellectual, they're somehow going to get over other people's expectations and go on with their lives. And when Alex told his parents that he was bringing Lynn over to meet them, they may have been expecting a Lynn of a different gender, but the guys seem to have been able to overcome any such expectations.

Well, this has sort of gotten off track. I entered this discussion because I didn't think Lynn had said anything wrong.


Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 9:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
MENDING WALL
Robert Frost

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows?
But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 9:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Pen, what I try very hard to do when I recognize I'm thinking about a group in stereotypical ways is to break through that myth and hopefully get to know individuals. Or, I may have close enough friends who I can not just observe, but ASK about those things.

Of course expectations can be "gotten over" but to me they are also obstacles (or fences, yes, Legal!) that maybe I don't have to place in the road. PC just for the sake of being PC, that can be irritating, but I guess at least people are trying. But if I can learn what is offensive to a person, or a group, I want to do that and then avoid it.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 5:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
If Alex's family was surprised that he brought home a Lynn of the same sex, they were living in a state of denial larger than Alaska!

It is no more true that all gay guys are unathletic - as witness some pro football players! - than that lesbians are all jocks!

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 7:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Indeed!!

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 10:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Alex cracked me up when he found the clue in the steed trunk! Just pure joy.

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 11:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Legal, I LOVE Robert Frost! Thanks for sharing that lovely poem. I read it twice and will most likely ponder it the rest of the day (it's the English Lit major in me--I can't help myself!).

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 7:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm gonna miss the fun these guys were... Best of luck to them!!!

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 8:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'm gonna miss them too. I think they got somewhat of a bum rap.

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 9:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Good riddance!!!

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 9:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Can't wait until I can post that comment in the R/A folder...LOL

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Buh bye!!!!!!

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Toodles...

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
ta ta for now....

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 11:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Dont let the door..................

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 12:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
See ya later alligator...