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Archive through March 11, 2009

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Amazing Race ARCHIVES: Amazing Race XIV : 3-08-09 Show Thread: Archive through March 11, 2009 users admin

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Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
By the way, one of the best things about the Amazing Race is that they include a wide range of people that prompt these types of interesting discussions. :-)

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 12:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
It is one of the things that I like about them.

Their looks are another <wink wink>

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lexie_girl a private message Print Post    
I agree with everything you said Jimmer in your 12:41 p.m. post - especially about the part of him traveling with his mother. I remember last season when Dallas said his mother Toni was a terrible "wingman" when he was trying to get together with the other girl on the show. Margie is probably more over-protective of Luke than most mothers.

Hooray for Cara and Jaime - they are the only ones that really make an effort to communicate with Luke.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
I would like to point out that many of the contestants didnt know who Chekhov was, a subject I have brought up before. Luke's lack of hearing has nothing to do with not knowing who Checkhov was or his immaturity in dealing with the challenge. Lakisha and Jennifer found very interesting ways to combine the letters before they guessed the answer.

It has nothing to do with not being manly, I had zero patience for the crying and whining of Linda - a grown woman.

I would go far as to say I regard Luke as just as able and just as capable of any hearing contestant and I hold him up to the same standards.

I critique all contestants equally and I certainly would not say "he is deaf, give him a pass on this" He may encounter some challenges in this competition but his deafness didnt enter into the equation on this challenge.


How old is he?

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
Where in the world did anyone say his being deaf should give him a pass? Most of us were simply disagreeing with your PERCEPTION that he was whining. You even went so far as to compare him to a kindergartner.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
The implication is that one shouldnt criticize him. By the way I checked and he is 22.



"And I actually give a special pass to Luke this week for Chechov – sure I know that name but its because I tend to absorb everything I HEAR in conversation or on TV etc and I never would have been able to spell it since I have never seen it written anywhere (never had him in any of my lit classes) and so with Luke, while we may think how can people not recognize that name, Luke does not have that opportunity to just “hear things in passing"

you your self stated "It's interesting because I know from my own experience growing up deaf that people with disabilities are far more likely to be bullied, picked on or ridiculed than their peers. Just a fact of life"

What does being deaf and being bullied or ridiculed have anything to do with this competition or the task at hand. He is a 22 year old and threw a fit over not being able to complete the task.

Other competitors without disabilities have also behaved over the top this season and in past seasons i.e. Linda, and lets not forget Jonathan and Victoria of many seasons ago. People who exhibit over the top behavior, will be criticized.

Being deaf does not factor into this as far as I am concerned. He aced the first leg of the race and he and his mother can continue to run a good race but I stand by my opinion that he acted like a spoilt child in this past episode. And he is 22!!!!!!

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 1:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
I'm gonna abstain from here on out. Peace.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 3:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Reader234 a private message Print Post    
Hermione - you are doing such a great job! I admire you!!

As a substitute teacher that worked with kids at the school for deaf and hard of hearing, and a mom with a hoh son - I think its hard to explain - its a walk a mile in their shoes... for instance - if you put your fingers in your ears you can hear - not well, but you can follow conversations - (where is that commercial where a response is "Koala" it has nothing to do with Koala... )

my son was bullied and ridiculed throughout school - he was on ahockey team so he could be part of the deaf hockey school - and those kids were some of the meanest ever (throwing lit matches at him, throwing ice at him, dumping him in garbage cans - it all came out once he exploded - what an eye opening experience - so yeah, I became more "protective" and one of his favorite teachers used to try and get me to realize I did hover - I was in denial - as long as ds didnt think it was hovering...

This competition is about communication - and Luke does not communicate like everyone else. As far as Deaf/hoh know that Engilsh is their 2nd language.... and as such a lot is lost in translation - I can always pick out a written paper from a deaf/hoh person from a pile - since their auditory input is different (or non existent) their auditory output is different...

and kids pick on kids. and deaf/hoh kids stand out - their voices are different, and no amount of trying to "fit in" changes that they hear differently and when my son jumps into some conversations he thinks he knows what direction they are going - but BAM - he says something that is so "where did that come from?" that he feels humilated.

so there has to be a comfort level before he participates... he has been scared by his past, so it affects how he relates to future relationships.

So in the example of the Chechov - maybe you hear that name in other movies, or other literature - in passing - you hear how Russian is pronounced - but my son is used to failing, and being rediculed by "hearing" people - so often he goes to frustration, he (like Luke did) has to overcome his own self doubts built from years of bullying and ridiculing...

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 5:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
If I had to guess Luke's age, I would guess younger than 22. I'm not sure if that's based on how he looks or how he acts or both, but he does seem very young to me.

Perhaps he's not much of a reader. It's probably a bad assumption for me to think that someone who can't hear probably reads a lot and would be able to make some good guesses at a word scramble. Some of his first guesses didn't even look like words at all (a bunch of consanants strung together).

What I love about this board is how much I learn from other people. So while this may be a difficult discussion, I find it interesting and enlightening.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 5:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
We are so fortunate here to have both the mom of and a hearing impaired person to help us understand a world that is totally beyond our experience. As an SE teacher, I have worked with blind and/or deaf students, but I always knew that I had no real comprehension of their situation in regard to a seeing/hearing world.

Nerovh
Member

06-12-2005

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 5:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nerovh a private message Print Post    
Actually, I was going to major in English and took a ton of college literature classes before I switched my major. I only knew who Chekhov was because I've heard his name in passing, not because we read any of his work or studied him. If I were deaf, I probably would never have heard of him at all.

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 5:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
As a librarian and English major myself, I have definitely heard of Chekov!

Brenda, I always loved to read (hence the librarian thing) and think as a child when I read books instead of watching TV, it really opened my world. BUT, what I hear from many people in the deaf community is that most of them do not like to read because "proper English" and their natural language (ASL) are so different that its too difficult for them to enjoy pleasure reading because it is too much work to get their brains to think that way. It's like a foreign language to many deaf people! My first ASL teacher told me this, as have others I met in the deaf community.

My first ASL teacher is completely deaf. I remember the first email I ever received from her and I was taken aback at first at the grammar mistakes and how borderline illiterate she sounded until I looked at it through different eyes and realized she's coming from ASL and I am coming from English.

I'm an abnormality because even though my hearing loss is in the severe-profound range, my life is 99% in the hearing world so I think in "proper English" and not ASL.

Actually, I'm an abnormality in more ways than one, but we don't need to go there.

Thanks to all for their kind words, and to Reader for carrying the torch onward. I'm happy to answer questions or provide insight, but I can't try to defend him too much anymore. It's too hard, lol.

I do want to make sure that people know I'm not trying to make this about me. I apologize if it seems that way. I'm just trying to offer a different perspective from someone who's been there so that maybe people can approach Luke with compassion first and criticism second. He's definitely not perfect, but I think he tries very hard. I don't think I could ever do what he is doing. It would be too intimidating for me communication-wise.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 6:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
That's very interesting Hermoine -- I would think a deaf school eduction would be very involved with reading English. I wonder what the curricula and teaching method is like.

If I may ask, what kind of education did you get as a youth?

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 6:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Legalboxer a private message Print Post    
I just want to make it clear that "I" was the one that said i gave luke an extra pass this week because its so common to know names like that by hearing it in passing. And if you look at my entire post i never once mentioned or commented on his behavior - i simply was commenting on how i gave everyone a pass for not knowing checkov and that i gave luke even more of a pass for not knowing that name. But not knowing Checkov has nothing to do with how you handle the situation and i never commented either way on how anyone acted in that challenge.


on another note, i totally back up what Hermione69 posted about many (not all) deaf people having proper english as a second language in a way - when i was working with a deaf mother who had 3 kids in foster care, who was "literate" with a GED, we still had to translate the court letters into ASL because she couldnt understand them (although what is worse to understand, russian lit or a letter from the court!) Also, from age 3 I grew up learning Signed English which is proper english (I insisted on using every "a" and "the" etc in every sentence) so to this day i am still intimidated when i meet a deaf person because people expect me to communicate with them but I have no experience with ASL even if some signs are the same. So even in signing in the US it can be confusing to communicate!

i do wonder if editing isnt showing other teams communicating with Luke...

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 7:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I (obviously wrongly) assumed that most deaf people would be in the habit of reading closed captioning on TV programs and therefore would be comfortable with reading?

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 8:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Reader234 a private message Print Post    
Jimmer (I can take this one ;) ) please, turn off the sound and rely on Closed Caption - it is so off so often...

DS has a problem with loud noises (think fire crackers and balloon popping - its a nerve thing) so at Boy Scout camp someone found out and gave him a case of the yellow ear plugs - one of his friends read the side of the box and it said that using them was like a 40% db sound reduction - so DS challenged his friends to watch a movie with CC and the ear plugs - -

they all gave up after 20 - 30 minutes!!

and think about it, how do you get a deaf person to read? How did you learn to read?

anyone use the phonics or "sound it out method"?

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 9:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
Hermione, I am glad you came back. You were taking it personally, and it is not personal. Not at all. I find it fascinating that we have such a diverse group here that we have brilliant minds here, some of whom cannot hear, some of whom can hear but not speak, some of whom can hear and speak but not see, some of whom have not been out of a wheelchair most of their lives. Each of those people has a special insight that if they are brave enough and willing enough, we can all learn something from. So, thank you, Hermione, for continuing to work on educating us. And the others, you know who you are.

Good to see you around and jumping in, Legalboxer. You know we still have a Trivia thread going.

And a bit off topic, but if I were the parent of a deaf child, I would move heaven and earth to get my child into Gallaudet or any other school where being deaf was the norm. Probably. Maybe. I don't know; I can always see all sides of an argument. Sigh ...

Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Watching2 a private message Print Post    
Luke went to college here and there's an article about him on the college web site. My brother, nephews, and many good friends also went to RIT. There is the Rochester School for the Deaf for younger students, but many are main-streamed now. You can find many of the businesses here with either deaf workers or those who know how to sign. One of the movie theaters shows movies with captions. Actually, it was also in our newspaper and TV news that he was going to be on TAR because of his Rochester connection. At most big events in the area, you'll find ASL interpreters and depending on the need, at church services, etc.
Article about Luke

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 4:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
Nothing I said was personal and Hermi I certainly apologize if anything I said was taken personally. I have known you a long time on this board and have always held you in the greatest respect.

The last I will say on the subject is that I believe that Luke behaved immaturely, and it had absolutely nothing to do with his inability to hear but his inability to deal with a frustrating situation. At this point I am certainly reluctant to participate in any discussion regarding Luke's performance lest it be perceived as being an attack on him as a non hearing person.

Mark and Michael are slowly becoming my favorites because they are so incompetent but they make me smile at all their mistakes.

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 6:03 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
Well, I don't want anyone to feel stifled and it is certainly as fair to criticize Luke as it is anyone. I myself criticized his use of the U-Turn. I didn't like that he chose to go that route, so it's not like I am defending him blindly. My perception of his performance in the Chekov task differed from others and most of the discussion sprung from that.

I don't mean to be taking it personally, but apparently I am, or people think I am. I was simply trying to show a different perspective on the interpretations of his actions and why I felt some of the comments were excessively harsh.

So, really, I just will stay out of this. Obviously my presence here is making people feel they can't speak freely and that is certainly not what I want. I'll just stick to the Celebrity Apprentice, lol.

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 6:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lexie_girl a private message Print Post    
Nooooooooooooo... don't go Hermione!!!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 6:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
The only reason I knew the name Chekhov was because I'm a Trekkie.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 6:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
Lol Karuuna.

Aurora
Member

11-24-2006

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 7:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Aurora a private message Print Post    
Knowing who Chekhov is wasn't the only example of lack of knowledge about things Russian. When Christie and Jodi found the dam in Siberia with the picture of Lenin on it, she asked Jodi if that was the guy who built the dam. To her credit, Jodi answered it was "a bad dictator guy", but not by name.

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 7:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Legalboxer a private message Print Post    


as was posted on another board "is there a 'good' dictator guy"?