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Archive through April 20, 2009

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Amazing Race ARCHIVES: Amazing Race XIV : 4/19 Tonights spoiling!: Archive through April 20, 2009 users admin

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Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 8:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Legalboxer a private message Print Post    
I am on the side that Margie was overeacting and going down the wrong road at the end. To me it has nothing to do with whether the sisters were "making fun" of Luke - I saw it as laughing out loud about his reaction, NOT because he was signing... i think they would have laughed the same way if Luke had been yelling out loud his words instead of signing them, and Margie just jumped on the "dont tease my son" bandwagon way too fast...

and i agree that laughing/smiling in the midst of a fight can cause even more friction on the other side but it had nothing to do with the disability and i hope Margie can see that in the tapes.

that being said, i know not everyone has the same reactions to such situations - if it was me, i would laugh it off too if i saw Luke yelling like that for no valid reason, but that is just my personality and what Margie seemed to miss is not everyone has the same personality and so she shouldnt just assume that any laugh or smirk or bad word is an attack on Luke's disability. Everyone is an individual and not all people with disabilities are sweet quiet decent people - so let Luke get the same reaction that others might get based on his personality and actions - and not associate it with the deafness - regardless of how many times they may be exposed to people who do tease on the basis of disabilities.

Dipo
Member

04-23-2002

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 8:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dipo a private message Print Post    
Yeah they just said "I think It'll piss him off more cuz I'll just laugh in their face".
So it seems to me that they were not planning on engaging in any more arguements, just schrug if off and laugh.

Dipo
Member

04-23-2002

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 8:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dipo a private message Print Post    
Oh, and I have a question, I don't understand the birds going to get the fish that you throw into the water. I would understand if they went and caught fish for you, but why would you train ducks to get fish thrown? anyone know, or did I just not get this task.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 8:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I the ducks are trained to help the fishermen. Of course it would take too long to wait for a fisherman to catch a fish, so they just tossed them in the water for the fish to grab.

I think the fishermen usually have the ducks tied to their boats.

Dipo
Member

04-23-2002

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 8:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dipo a private message Print Post    
Thanks, brenda that makes more sense.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 9:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I meant to say "I think". :-) So, just my guess. Glad it makes sense.

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 9:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tishala a private message Print Post    
That "because they are black" comment really set me on edge. And I do think that Luke unnecessarily elbowed Jen when they were going for the clue (and I don't recall defenses for any other man who reacted with physical aggression toward a woman on the race before), just as he ran RIGHT THROUGH her when she got to the clue before him.

It seems to me that the mother is as much of a provocateur as anyone I have seen in the race and that, frankly, she enables her son's tantrums. She believes Jen and LaKisha are persecuting her son because...well...that's what she wants to believe. But it doesn't do him much good to feed that. Sure, it happens in life, but not everything comes down to that, and she does him a disservice by assuming it does.

Oh and save that one meltdown in week three (I think) Victor and Tammy have been a perfectly charming pair. It's good to see them succeed.

Vsmart
Member

02-10-2003

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 9:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Vsmart a private message Print Post    
Margie is very overprotective. Even if Luke could hear, she would never let him do anything by himself.

Oregonguy
Member

02-12-2006

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 9:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Oregonguy a private message Print Post    
my take on the 2 teams going into the incident.
jen and kisha- havent done anything to make me like them or dislike them
luke i find competitive but a little whiny at times
margie- i have been very impressed with

now, at the first clue box when jen came up behind luke to get the clue if luke had just raised his left arm to a ribcage level to block jen then it probably would have been okay but it was very inapropiate when his elbow came up to face level. what if his elbow did crack her in the face?? i dont blame jen for calling him a "b".

at the 2nd clue box you would have to be lukes mom (LOL) to think that luke didnt shove jen into the cluebox.

jen and kisha clearly said afterwards that they would just smile and laugh about it believing that luke would get over emotional about it and they got that exact reaction at the mat.

i think as a whole, this season has been good for peoples attitudes and partners getting along.

war redheads!

Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 11:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Auntiemike a private message Print Post    
I think that Jen did not call him a "" (noun)but called the action (verb) a " move". I see those as totally different things and I think Luke overreacted also. His mom just egged on his irrational thinking. I am liking Luke and his mom less and less. He kind of gets on my nerves and it has nothing to do with him being deaf. (I know sign language and have conversed with the deaf community enough to know that it's his personality I'm reacting to, not his communication abilities).

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 11:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
Marge has to get over everything being about Luke being deaf. Sometimes people might be mad at him or laugh at him or make fun of him because of his behavior, not because he can't hear. What kind of people do they hang out with that make fun of his deafness? If he's really dealt with it his whole life you'd think he'd have developed a thicker skin by now.

He has a very short fuse but won't take any responsibility for his actions. Marge enables him in his bad behavior. He is a grown man and needs to be accountable.

My take was that he elbowed her at the first cluebox, then pushed her at the second cluebox. She wasn't blameless, but he was at least 80% to blame.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Not reading thread until I put down my impressions.

Margie.. #1 was it really in Luke's best interest to make sure he knew what he was called? She went back and forth between egging him on and telling him to calm down and I don't think it helped him .. his stomach had to be churning. I don't think it hurt his race ability, since he did okay with the cormorant.. the bite didn't really slow him down, just the person driving the boat, but in the end that wasn't a factor in the placings.

It seemed to me, as they played and replayed the clips that he raced for the box and she came up and put her hand on his shoulder, she did not slam into him or hit him, or try to push him away from the box. He DID body check and flail his arm.. I'm sure it wasn't intentional to hit her facet but he did.

She used the word she did because she thought it was that sort of move. The two teams were already competing, with Margie and Luke trying to get Kisha/Jen's taxi misdirected, or at least withholding info last week. Within the race that is ok, but isn't likely to engender good feelings. And Luke has been intensely competitive.

Margie kept getting into it with the second clue box clash.... the clue box was run over and whatever was done to Luke wasn't really as much as he did to her earlier. Not pretty on either side. He slammed into her and her deflection was partly to remain standing.

In between, I don't think Margie was terribly helpful to Luke. She ASSUMED things and passed them along.

And at the mat, I think she was totally out of line.. and you could see it on all the other faces. I'm sure Tammy and Victor have had their share of prejudice, as have Kisha and Jen, because of their race/minority status.

I'm SURE Luke has experienced people who made fun of his utterances and his signing, but one has to wonder if Margie has over blown it in the past, since she was clearly carrying a big chip on her shoulder as was Luke, and just assuming that he was being laughed at for signing or for being deaf. In my notes I stated that I thought the smiles were more from the tension of the situation (before they said it) and J/K supporting each other, while being called out, screeched at by Margie all in front of Phil and T/V. And at the height of it all, Margie wasn't translating, so SHE was the one to keep what he was saying out of the mix. And after Phil inquired and while Victor was innocently claiming that it was all in fun.. Margie was telling Luke not to say anything and then SHE totally went OFF on J/K.

I get that she's protective, I get that they have undoubtedly had to fight battles, but I still wonder how many of the battles have been made worse by their preconception that they are being mocked, when, perhaps, they aren't.

Seemed to me that it was their ACTIONS last week and Luke's body checking and flailing hand this week, that brought out the aggression in the other team. IT ISN'T ALWAYS ABOUT HIS BEING DEAF! And just because Jen and Kisha are black, doesn't mean they aren't allowed to be angry with him...


I also wonder if Margie and Luke had come in FIRST place, if it would have been more about Luke crowing and saying told you so.. Kisha and Jen winning the leg probably just made it more unbearable for Luke, but hey, how nice for J/K to finally WIN A LEG. Tammy was obviously happy for them.

===

Next week, wow.. the three teams will be virtually together and it sort of looks like J/C may not be THAT far behind.

Whew.

I'm exhausted!

I'm also glad that Michal and Mark weren't SO far behind (the spoilers ALL season had a sighting of them at the airport WAY later than they were in reality, so it was seeming like they might be SO far behind that wouldn't even get to complete all the tasks. Only in the last day were there clips showing them in China during the day, doing a task and the spoilers realized that their elimination wasn't a total slam dunk, despite the surprise of the Bonnie Hunt leak showing them as the eliminated team.

I liked that Tammy and Victor have learned to relax and as he said, it doesn't help to get upset with each other and he did a very good job not yelling at Tammy as teams passed her up with the cormoorants. She could have thought to speak to the birds in Chinese earlier, but she really couldn't control it when the two dirty birds flew off together just before the 10th fish..

At least this week there were no snafus, no articles left behind, no rules broken (although I suspect Luke is hoping for that).

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
The Amazing Race XIV


04/19/2009 Leg 9: Bangkok, Thailand - , Guilin, China

team1234567891011avgRoad
Blocks
SBUTFF6E
Kisha/Jen080703020603050401  04.33K 4
J 4
    
Tammy/Victor020108030201010302  02.55T 4
V 4
    
Margie/Luke010404040104040103  02.88M 4
L 4
 used UT
on A/K
Leg 4
  
Jaime/Cara070607050305020204  04.55J 5
C 3
    
Mark/Michael030805070506032P052P/NEL05  05.22Ma 5
Mi 3
Leg
8
  E7
Mel/Mike04020106040206    03.57Me 3
Mi 3
   E6
Christie/Jodi1009060107NEL07     06.67C 2
J 3
Leg 6  E5
Amanda/Kris05030208       04.50A 1
K 3
 U-Turned
by M/L
Leg 4
 E4
Brad/Victoria060509        06.66B 0
V 3
   E3
Steve/Linda0910         09.50S 1
L 1
   E2
Preston/Jennifer11          11.00P 1
J 0
   E1


NEL Leg 5 = Non-Elimination Leg; SB next leg (Christie/Jodi)

NEL Leg 8 = Non-Elimination Leg; SB next leg (Mark/Michael)

2P Leg 7 Mark/Michael came in 1st but incurred 2 30 min penalties and dropped to 3rd place

2P Leg 8 Mark/Michael came in 4th but incurred 2 120 min penalties and dropped to 5th place with some penalty time delaying departure from pit stop

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whoami a private message Print Post    
OK, I haven't even watched the whole thing, but I played both incidents in frame-by-frame slow motion. Here's my take on it, though I'll say in advance my disclaimer that I my take might be a bit skewed cause I really like M/L, and they are my partner team in the Animal Farm game.....

First of all, I feel K/J were already holding a grudge cause, on the previous leg, they think M/L told their own cab driver to deliberately give wrong directions to K/J's cab driver. They even mentioned it in this episode. IIRC, in the last leg, both cab drivers got the wrong directions from whoever they were talking to. K/J's driver started back to their cab, and some passers-by heard the wrong directions and told M/L's driver the right directions. Granted, M/L did indeed tell their driver not to share the new information with the other driver, and K/J's driver ended up taking off in the wrong direction. IMHO, telling your driver not to share updated information is a far cry from telling your driver to deliberately tell someone else the wrong directions. In fact, if Mark/Mike got penalized for sabotaging the pumps at the rickshaw challenge, I'm willing to bet telling your driver to deliberately give wrong directions to another driver would also be considered sabotage and garner a penalty.

So, with that part out of the way, at the first clue box I saw Luke get there first, and Jen was all over his back and trying to reach around/over him to grab a clue before him. He reacted instinctively and shoved her off of him. The elbow height I don't think was a deliberate to the face thing, though it did elbow her above the waist. His posture was hunched way over, and she was leaning/reaching around and over him. I think the positioning of the elbow was incidental, not deliberate. As soon as Luke gets the clue, he backs off of the box and Jen gets her team's envelope.

Second clue box. Luke and Jen are in a dead heat race to the box. Both are trying to slightly elbow their way in front of the other. They get to the box, and Jen gets there just ahead of Luke. As soon as they get to the box, I see Luke actually pull up, bringing his hands to his body, and (as she said in confessional) Jen's momentum carries her into the clue box. She then proceeds to move her body around and deliberately elbows Luke off of the box repeatedly. She then crows about the "fight we had at the clue box" to T/V and says Luke pushed her (which is contrary to what she testified in confessional). At one point I hear Kisha sort of implying that she will laugh in Luke's face cause she knows that will piss him off.

So, I see that both teams were competitive in trying to reach the club box first. I think K/J were sort of mean and petty and looking to push buttons, as evidenced by their crowing to T/V about the fight at the clue box, and by knowingly laughing in Luke's face when they knew that would piss him off even more. I also think Margie is overprotective of her son. But really, just cause he's a grown man doesn't mean Mom automatically turns off the "protective mother" gene. He's only 22, so he hasn't been a "grown man" for very long. And really, I worked in a warehouse full of "grown men" in their early 20's who were some of the most immature people I ever worked with (but that's a whole other story and theory I don't care to get into now).

I do think that Margie crossed a line with her "because you're Black" comment. I've learned from personal experience that I can't compare anything I went through in being judged by my peers to what someone else went through under different circumstances. Just cause I know what its like to be vilified/judged and demeaned because I'm fat/have frizzy hair/etc doesn't mean I know what its like to be judged due to being Black, deaf or anything else. All it means is I know what its like to be judged for being different from the person judging me.

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:42 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biscottiii a private message Print Post    
Speaking as a partially deaf person that's been lip reading since Age-4, I am so READY for Luke with all his cries/whines/tantrums/sobs to go home! Let his Mommy tend his "bird bit me, girl called me a b**tch, they laughed at me, nobody's NICE to me" stuff and she can mother him all she wants to at home. Luke should grow up and THEN travel the world at some future date!

L/M may 'say' he doesn't lipread, but there's been too many instances that I've watched where Luke is instantly quite aware and lipreading, he's not ONLY relying on Mommy. Like I say, I'm relying on my own experience. He may focus on the signs when someone is signing, but when he's with others he's seriously watching their face!

Maybe both Luke & Margie believed that due to his disability, his "competitiveness" was supposed to guarantee ALL the First Place prizes (they've already received 3, I believe) but also the Million Dollar Win. And he is allowed to be as physically aggressive with any woman that stands in his way!

I'm actually rooting now that Luke and Margie are the next to exit! Can't believe it, I'm rooting for Tammy & Victor at this point.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 1:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Who, I didn't think K/J were crowing to T/V during the cormorant task but sounded rather surprised at how Luke had reacted.

TNT, if you do go back and watch.. of course Margie didn't just say "people like you" as we heard on the previews, but included because they were BLACK, so no I don't think she meant the hearing community, she meant that they must be persecuted like Luke has been by some people.

And in the end, J/K had the grace to apologize, but Luke and Margie were still huffing and puffing and blowing down the houses of cards they had erected with their own preconception.

I've been a T/V fan all along, but even more, now. They have grown.. Jaime may joke about it but she has no more control over her attitude and harshness than she did from the beginning. Luke seems more and more stressed, Margie is egging him on..

I'm liking T/V more and J/K more and M/L less.

I feel for Jen, next week, based on the previews.. though I do think that just as with people going on Survivor.. probably a crash swimming course would be a good idea, even if it ends up being unnecessarey.. and heck this looked to be a swim across a pool, not as in some past TARs where they had to swim underwater or in icy conditions.

If there is a U Turn next episode, I think we may be seeing some intense racing .. well Margie and Luke cannot U-Turn anyone since they have used it already, but Kisha and Jen seem like they will be trying to stay ahead so that if it pops up they can slap M/L picture up on that board.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 1:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Just checked.. Luke is only 22, but Jen is only 24 and she just has a 28 year old alongside, while Luke has a 50 year old mom.. and mom was probably acting more immature than the rest..

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 2:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Seems that there probably WAS bunching galore, but we didn't SEE it.. M/M were stuck for hours at the intermediate airport and arrived in daylight.. others arrived in the dark the night before, but it seems there was a task we didn't see in the Folded Brocade Mountains involving drums that provide longevity (another name for the Folded Brocade Mountains is Longevity Mountains) .. the spoiler people had been puzzled since they had good evidence that the Folded Brocade area was in use by the race with lots of props. Now some pictures are coming out showing people there.. early in the morning at the Drums of Life and no sight of M/M.

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 2:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tishala a private message Print Post    
I read that the performance at the mat went on for 45 minutes. Oy.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 3:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
Just a comment about cormorant fishing - I THOUGHT that the birds - while "working" - had tight rings around their necks so that they COULD not swallow the fish that they caught. I didn't see those Sunday night.

I also thought that I saw the birds tied to the boats, but then some flew away? Did no one else see cords around their necks?

Finally, the real deal is - I THINK - that the birds do fish on their own, return to their boats, and give up their catch - because they are unable to swallow the fish until the rings are removed.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 3:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
TNT, you are right on about cormorant fishing in Guilin


quote:

Scenes from the City of Guilin

Cormorant Fishing

A traditional mode of fishing in China involves the use of cormorants to catch fish. Fishermen on bamboo rafts use strong lights suspended over the water to attract the fish. The cormorants, which are tethered with rings round the base of their necks, catch the fish and then disgorge them for the fishermen (When their work is done the rings are removed so they can eat. These shows are regular features of the high season, or they can be arranged, along with riverboats for an evening's entertainment afloat. The boats are flat, narrow rafts consisting of five or six large, round bamboo trunks tied together and upturned at the stern. The fisherman stands on the raft, using a pole to propel the boat. His cormorants perch on his outstretched arms, diving on his command. One good cormorant can feed an entire family.




Seems a bit different in Japan:


quote:

Ukai - Traditional Cormorant Fishing in Japan
Ukai, or cormorant fishing, is a traditional method of river fishing that has been practiced in Japan for some 1300 years. This method involves fishermen using cormorant birds on leashes to catch sweetfish (such as the Ayu). Ukai is not as widespread as it once was, because it is no longer an economically viable form of fishing. Nowadays, there are only a few people authorized to perform ukai, and it is protected under the Imperial Household Agency. Positions are usually inherited and passed on within each family.

The photographs bellow were taken during my several trips to Japan in Uji, Iwakuni and Arashiyama. I was lucky enough to cover the whole event including:




More about cormorant fishing in Japan.. and you have it right rings and ropes..


quote:

[edit] Fishing process

Cormorant Fishing on the Nagara RiverBecause cormorant fishing is a daily activity for nearly five months of the year, the fishing masters begin each day by selecting ten to twelve healthy cormorants for the evening’s activities. When the birds are selected and the boats are prepared, the six fishing masters draw ropes to determine the order in which they will fish.

When the cormorants catch the fish, they are brought back to the boat using ropes attached to their bodies. When they are back in the boat, the fishing masters remove the fish from the birds’ throats. Each bird can hold up to six fish in its throat. The birds are prevented from swallowing the fish because of a ring tied around their necks. The cormorants, however, are still able to swallow smaller fish. Though the ropes are strong, the fishing masters are able to quickly break them if a bird’s rope gets caught beneath rocks, ensuring the bird will not drown.

Each night, cormorant fishing officially begins when three fireworks are set off in the evening sky. At first, the boats come down the river, one by one, catching fish. They use a fire attached to the front of the boat to attract the fish and hit the sides of the boat to keep the birds active. As the night draws to a close, the six boats will line up side-by-side and descend the river in a process called sougarami.[1] Those who come to view cormorant fishing are often able to view the night’s catch.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormorant_Fishing_on_the_Nagara_River

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 4:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lexie_girl a private message Print Post    
I'm not going to rehash what has already been posted, but I will say that Margie and Luke cannot get Philiminated fast enough as far as I am concerned!

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 6:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
What a boring season. They didn't cast this season very well. There is not one team, since the start that I even remotely enjoy watching. I can't wait till this season is done.

Sammi
Member

03-31-2008

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 6:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sammi a private message Print Post    
Feel the same way Lexi. He has acted like a spoiled little brat if things don't go his way. I remember when he was trying to get some Russian (I think) names in order on some kind of a board outside and he was throwing a fit because it wasn't going his way. I don't remember seeing anybody else act the way he does. His mother is just enabling him to act this way and I think last night she was egging him on. Can't wait for them to get eleminated.

Panda
Member

07-15-2005

Monday, April 20, 2009 - 7:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Panda a private message Print Post    
Tammy and Victor for the win!

I remember even in seasons past - there were worse things said than "b*tch" without it even being a swear word among the competitors!