Author |
Message |
Aurora
Member
11-24-2006
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 7:42 am
Here's a fun blog recapping last night's show. http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20273582,00.html <fixed link - jr>
|
Panda
Member
07-15-2005
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 8:10 am
Oh and I thought it was a hoot when M/M were shampooing the ladies' hair! hee hee at least they seemed to have fun with it.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 8:58 am
I agree with Whoami. That's pretty much the way I saw it also. 
|
Dke1212
Member
07-13-2005
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 9:34 am
Luke has had a 'the world owe's me' attitude from the beginning. Haven't liked him at all. Lakisha & Jennifer or Tammy & Victor are my picks at this point...I guess.
|
Ladyw
Member
06-28-2007
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 9:39 am
okay -- my take(any my 12 year olds take) -- First clue box -- Luke is deaf, he can not hear and his back was to Jen. He can not hear if someone is coming up behind him even at full speed -- I think the elbow was a "self defense mechnaism" -- he was startled as someone above mentioned. Mom tried to calm him down afterwards -- before the second clue box (she kept saying -- no pushing, no shoving) -- then as both ran to the 2nd box Luke was behind this time - she stopped, he ran into her and then immediately put both arms up in the air as she started to elbow him. I personally think they are both to blame, including the comment on "we will just smile and P** him off even more". We really don't know what was said or how the fight ensured at the mat (editing) -- Was mom justified? was K/J justfied? I don't know again I think only those that were there can really talk about it. I think everyone was over tired, and paitence was at its limit. Mamma bear probably over reacted, but who wouldn't right-- I think I would have done the same thing...
|
Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 9:46 am
I have not liked Luke & Margie from the beginning but they were getting so much love I kept my mouth shut. Yes Luke is deaf. But the codependent relationship between him and his mother has made him handicapped. I have a relative just like this. She had a disability from birth. It would have limited what she could do in the general world. But her mother turned her into a useless monster who now has to be tended by the surviving relatives. Regarding the pushing. At the first box I think it was a draw. We did not get a good view of their starting positions. I could not decide whether Jen tried to encroach on Luke or she just couldn't stop her momentum. I don't like that Luke threw an elbow but what was he supposed to do? Be mangled? At the second box Luke definitely tried to get physical with Jen. I think the fact that there were no penalties for either team is inviting more of this behavior in the future. Imagine if Boston Rob thought he could get away with physically checking another player?
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 9:54 am
Ladyw, I think that is a very good point, that Luke could not hear someone coming up from behind him. Heck, when someone runs into me and tries to grab something over my shoulder, I would move to block them as well. It's pretty reflexive. At the second box, Jen *admitted* that her momentum carried her into the box. I'm not sure why folks don't believe her. And then all that bad blood between lead to some pushing and shoving from both sides. Like most such disputes, and even more evident in a competitive atmosphere, both sides escalated in their own ways.
|
Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 10:13 am
The thing is, before Jen was elbowed, she put her hand on Luke's shoulder to let him know she was there; then he hip checked her. And then he elbowed her.

|
Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 10:25 am
Second incident: Jen is being more kind than the truth of the pictures allows. [Note him trying to push her out of the way in picture 2]
Of course, after Jen has already been pushed, Luke backs off. And if Luke typically elbows things that startle him, 1. that's a dangerous way to live and 2. there's a bird in China that should have taken one on the chin.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 10:37 am
They were racing to the clue box and both were trying to get the clue first. There was no need for that. As soon as someone gets a clue out, they move away and the next person can get in. It's about ten seconds. Jen should have just waited and reached in once Luke got his clue out. He was there first. In the second view, Jen crashed into the clue box and Luke crashed into her. At that point, I saw a couple of clumsy people hurrying - not anyone fighting or pushing.
|
Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 10:44 am
When a pair of people get to the clue box simultaneously, they always cluster around it to try to get the clue out. The only thing that was extraordinary about it last night was the elbow. It was also charming of Luke to punch his fist in the cab last night, as if her were going to get into fisticuffs with J or K. It's a Chris Brown world! In the second view, I see Jen getting there first and Luke bumping her from behind--isn't that contact I see in pictures 5 and 6?--but Jen not elbowing Luke. Oh, I also thought it was instructive that in the cab, Luke said something like, "It's not nice to call the deaf boy a b*tch." Certainly not. But for the record, Luke is an adult and that statement struck me as symptomatic.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 10:50 am
I find it very difficult to assess from a video clip exactly how aggressive Jen was in trying to get to the clue box. We don't know, and can't really infer that. Remember she had leftover hostility at Luke from the previous leg. At any rate, I don't find it helpful to put all the blame on either. It always takes two to fight.
|
Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 11:42 am
I find it less than convincing that because Luke is deaf he didn't know that Jen was racing him to the first cluebox.. she did NOT jump out of the bushes in a place where he expected to be alone! Luke, Margie, Jen and Kisha, plus two camera crews were all racing to that cluebox.. I just cannot believe that even he would claim that he was taken by surprise. And also they had no idea what would go along with being the FIRST to get the clue.. a U-Turn? A sign up sheet that would give advantage to the first one? There is history on TAR of people racing to clueboxes; they almost never just waltz up sedately and say.. "before me".. "oh, no, you go first!". In fact when Hera was hit on the head by the gate and it slowed her down, she and Gus got the last clue and had to wait until last to start that task and that was when they were put out of the race, so, yes, order can be crucial. Luke claims to be THE expert on TAR and certainly knew that and I'm sure Jen also felt it was important to try to be there first. I still was more impressed that Jen/Kisha were willing to apologize, while Margie and Luke seemed hell bent on holding onto their rage. Also interesting that Phil, who seems to remain pretty neutral (and also to like the vast majority of racers, even those not well liked by viewers) seemed quite convinced that Jen/Kisha were not mocking Luke for signing and he was standing there observing the whole debacle at the mat. Too bad all the ugliness took over this episode.. I'd have liked to have seen the task with the drums, which looked to be enjoyable and positive and scenic as well..
|
Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 11:44 am
I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I just have to say that I thought both Kisha and Luke were at fault. When they got to the mat and everything started going downhill (before Margie lost her cool), I think I was actually smiling myself thinking, "Oh boy. Now there's going to be a fight!" I never expected to see Margie lose it like that, but when she did it nearly broke my heart. As a mom I know I would fight tooth and nail to protect my son if he were threatened, but everyone was exhausted, it had been a long day and K/J just struck a nerve. Margie's reaction was not to the events of the day, but the events of a lifetime. I understood her anguish and her frustration. I hope when she's rested, she'll see that for herself and make her peace with K/J. I really don't think they were making fun of Luke at all.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 11:47 am
Oh, they were making fun of Luke all right. Just not necessarily for being deaf, altho I can see how that can be difficult for a mom to separate out.
|
Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 11:47 am
Ladyw, I just read your comments above and totally agree. Kisha surprised Luke by running up behind him the first time. Mama Bear overreacted. My thoughts exactly! If she's reading this, poor Hermie must be biting her tongue off! 
|
Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 11:49 am
Can I just say what my 8 year old said after the second clue box incident?: "2 wrongs don't make a right, sheesh even I know that, people!"
|
Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 11:50 am
Tishala: there's a bird in China that should have taken one on the chin. LOL! 
|
Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 11:56 am
Oh, they were making fun of Luke all right. Just not necessarily for being deaf, altho I can see how that can be difficult for a mom to separate out. Okay, Karuuna. That's actually what I meant to say. I didn't think they were making fun of him for being deaf, they were just smiling cause they knew it would annoy him and, just like I was before it all fell apart, waiting for the tantrum they thought would follow. Margie was the one who blew it all out of proportion.
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:06 pm
From watching the events unfold, I find it hard to directly put the blame on either of them for the incidents at the clue boxes. It is a race and people are tired, excited and aggressive. That is where the whole incident should have ended. Now I was thinking that the best way to handle that situation is not to get physical or angry afterward but just smile and move on. But hey wait a minute? Isn't that pretty much what Lakisha & Jennifer did at the mat? Even if their smiling had an edge to it or some other undertone it's pretty hard to fault someone for smiling. "Hey Officer! Arrest those two women. They smiled at me!" As far as Luke being deaf, it would be largely irrelevant except that his Mom tends to emphasize it over and over again. Now in fairness, she may be being encouraged by the show producers to emphasize it.
|
Lake_gal
Member
06-09-2004
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:06 pm
I truly hope Margie and Luke are the next team booted. They have annoyed me for weeks. Too much whining from Luke. And Margie treating him like an entitled child. Do they want Luke treated equal or special? They can't have it both ways. I would love to see their reaction if someone dares to U-Turn them. Luke thought it was funny when they did it to Kris and Amanda.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:08 pm
They weren't smiling just to annoy him, I don't think. I think they were smiling because they thought badly of him. That's mean, IMO. In other words, they were egging on the fight, because they haven't like M/L since the cab incident (and maybe before). So, IMO they were taunting/teasing him purposefully, and I can imagine as a mother of a kid who gets teased how that would feel familiar in a very bad kind of way, and push all kinds of buttons. That's why I find it hard to blame one side or the other as being totally responsible. Both sides played a role in escalating the situation.
|
Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:12 pm
Luke was acting like a baby. I think I would have been laughing too, not cuz he was deaf, just cuz he was getting way too bent out of shape and cuz I would have been so uncomfortable. I was liking M&L a lot, but they have gone downhill recently. Luke did elbow her and he did slam into her (tho I will say he did it cuz he was running and not necessarily cuz he was trying to bump her.) And he whined way too much about the bird biting him.
|
Hypermom
Member
08-13-2001
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:25 pm
Kar, I agree. K/J have wanted M/L gone for over a month now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPsH8UZsuAQ Also, Margie is a single parent. I think I would be overly protective too if I had a son that was deaf and gay. When my late son was going through chemo and had lost his hair, I was very vocal to people that stared and snickered. Regardless, I think both teams blew it out of proportion.
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:43 pm
I understand why Margie was upset. One of the hardest things to do as a parent is to let your son or daughter deal with difficult situations without too much interference. Most young men (and especially adults) don't want their Mom standing up for them. LOL - It's embarrassing enough when your Dad does it. However, in Luke's situation, I think his Mom is used to communicating on his behalf so that is clearly a factor here. There is no question that Lakisha and Jennifer were trying to provoke him by smiling. However, people have to learn how to deal with people who smile at them in tough situations. If the most someone does is smile at you and you can't handle that then life is going to be pretty hard for you. On a slightly different topic, I would think that not being able to lip read would be a serious disadvantage to someone who is deaf? Why don't all deaf people try to learn lip reading?
|