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3-08-09 Show Thread

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Amazing Race ARCHIVES: Amazing Race XIV : 3-08-09 Show Thread users admin

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Archive through March 08, 2009Maris25 03-08-09  5:45 pm
Archive through March 09, 2009Hermione6925 03-09-09  7:43 am
Archive through March 09, 2009Brenda196625 03-09-09  12:28 pm
Archive through March 10, 2009Tess25 03-10-09  1:08 am
Archive through March 10, 2009Lexie_girl25 03-10-09  11:50 am
Archive through March 11, 2009Legalboxer25 03-11-09  7:45 am
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Author Message
Merrysea
Moderator

08-13-2004

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 7:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Merrysea a private message Print Post    
Legalboxer, it depends. Are we talking about what the dictator does, or how effective he is in doing it?

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Reader234 a private message Print Post    
I will step up and say its different - I appreciate what maris is bringing to the discussion - we know that she is not alone in that opinion -

and of course I'm with Hermione, because I've been there - I've seen the way deaf kids interact - again, I interpret Luke's behavior as his ASL background - he wears his emotions on the outside - they speak for him, and they are more pronounced -

Watching thank you for that insight - if he is in an environment where Deaf Culture is accepted - I can understand him even more -

My son is hard of hearing, at 3 we knew something was off - so going thru the testing, then the eval... then the choice - do you put him in the deaf/hoh school where language (both sign - not asl - Exact English, like Legal was talking about) as well as verbal - where the ratio of professionals to students was 3:1 (and that would be 3 adults to 1 student!) or to you chose to bring him to a speech therapist twice a week for one hour?

Of course it seemed like a no brainer, but looking back now, I wonder? Should I have mainstreamed him sooner, he was in this "bubble" of a world where his hearing loss did not matter... where he was accepted for who he is - he didnt have to "fight" to stand up for himself... Truly I do not know.

but I do see Luke as someone who is comfortable in his own skin. He doesnt care if anyone perceives him as being "immature" I have a feeling his mom, friends and teachers, or people who know him would think differently...

Rosie
Member

11-12-2003

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosie a private message Print Post    
There is "another board"?

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
So are there two types of sign language plus lip reading as tools that deaf people use to communicate?

Holly
Member

07-22-2001

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Holly a private message Print Post    
Sounds like it, Jimmer. I'm always learning something. Now I'm wondering why ASL was developed if there already existed a proper English sign language, and what are the benefits of ASL over the original sign language? I could see the purpose if it were an international language but an American sign language?

I just hit that big AR up there and saw the pics. Cool new feature!

Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Watching2 a private message Print Post    
Reader - Rochester is a big area with many suburbs which we call "Rochester" but we don't live in the "city of Rochester." It's just a lot easier to say Rochester and a lot of the towns use Rochester as their mailing address. The suburb where RIT is, is called Henrietta. There is where you will see the highest concentration of HOH, deaf people and every day services, such as the movie theater. Not all towns have as high of a concentration of deaf people, but we are all very aware of the deaf in our community and it's getting really popular for the middle/high schools to offer ASL vs French or Spanish as a 2nd language. My kids were really upset it wasn't offered until after they started their second languages in middle school.

When I got my Siamese kitten last fall, the woman was deaf with a hearing husband and children. I tried to remember some of the signs I used to know when I taught them to kids at Vacation Bible School, but I was lacking bigtime! Esp. since we even reduced the movements for the little kids (3-4 yrs) to use with the songs they sang since we only had them for 4 days & then their parents would visit on the 5th day and we'd put on a little show where they would sing and sign the songs.

Anyway, the ad for the kittens said to leave a message or text. When I first contacted them, I received a short video of the kittens playing back on my phone. Later I was able to speak to her husband to find out where they lived, but it wasn't until we got there I realized the wife was deaf.

To most of us I think it looked like Luke was having a hissy fit which didn't fit his age. When I consider how much facial expression, body expression comes into ASL in expressing oneself, I more understand why it looked the way it did. Then I think of the people who scream all the time when they're frustrated, it put things in perspective even more. LOL Although they're usually my least favorties - i.e. Jonathan & Victoria.

This post is already quite long and I have to do some things, but I just wanted to say it's known that deaf kids have a disadvantage when they learn first by only ASL. I have to look it up since it's been a while, but I had a friend who learned a different method and was a teacher of it, which was starting to be taught to those so inclined. Supposedly, it would help the transition between reading/speaking English vs. ASL. I'll look for it later.

Btw - It wasn't called "proper English" so there is a 3rd way I guess. :-)

Whoami
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whoami a private message Print Post    
I'm with Kar, the only reason I knew the name Chekhov was cause I'm a Trekkie too!

Rosie
Member

11-12-2003

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rosie a private message Print Post    
I only knew of the name Chekhov because I had heard it in passing.

I was impressed that Luke kept track of his attempts. With the process of elimination method he eventually chose the correct spelling.

Tess
Member

04-13-2001

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tess a private message Print Post    
No one has mentioned my personal pet peeve yet today. I nearly threw something at our brand new TV this past episode when teams again were clearly in a NON-SPANISH SPEAKING COUNTRY and yet they still tell the cab drivers "rapido" or "andale" or "por favor". Why, oh why do we have teams every season who in the heat of the moment revert to the few Spanish phrases they know in every single country? <sigh>

What irks me just as much is when teams are in a foreign country and they encounter residents who speak their own native tongue but not English. Why does that make the resident somehow inferior as some contestants suppose. This has been consistent from season to season. Suppose someone encountered me on the street and they were speaking Greek. I'd be completely lost. Give me a romance language or a Germanic one and I'd have half a chance but holy cow. That still leaves hundreds of languages and dialects.

I just got myself worked up about it all over again and it's days until the next episode!

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Legalboxer a private message Print Post    
Rosie - dont worry - i only ran into that "other board" when goggling for a picture of lenin at the dam

fyi from wikipedia...

Signing Exact English (SEE, sometimes Signed Exact English or Signed English) is a system of manual communication that strives to be an exact representation of English vocabulary and grammar. It is one of a number of such systems in use in English-speaking countries, which are known collectively as Manually Coded English.

SEE is an artificial system that was devised in 1972. It takes much of its vocabulary of signs from American Sign Language (ASL). However, it often modifies the handshapes used in the ASL signs in order to incorporate the handshape used for the first letter of the English word that the SEE sign is meant to represent. Many new signs were invented, however, especially signs for grammatical concepts


American Sign Language (or ASL, Ameslan) is the dominant sign language of the Deaf community in the United States, in the English-speaking parts of Canada, and in parts of Mexico. Although the United Kingdom and the United States share English as a spoken and written language, British Sign Language (BSL) is quite different from ASL, and the two sign languages are not mutually intelligible.

and a third style to throw into the debate

Cued speech is a system of communication used with and among deaf or hard of hearing people. It makes traditionally spoken languages accessible by using a small number of handshapes (representing consonants) in different locations near the mouth (representing vowels), as a supplement to lipreading. It is now used with people with a variety of language, speech, communication and learning needs.


i may be wrong but i found asl to be much more like spanish then english in the combination of words used and grammar-wise

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Roxip a private message Print Post    
Just a note...I was watching a rerun of the Race with the hippies from a couple of seasons ago and I noticed that they knew (or had learned on the plane) at least a few common phrases of the language of the country they were going to. Of course one of them already spoke Japanese so they were able to communicate well during that leg.

Scout
Member

01-20-2005

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scout a private message Print Post    
No one has mentioned my personal pet peeve yet today. I nearly threw something at our brand new TV this past episode when teams again were clearly in a NON-SPANISH SPEAKING COUNTRY and yet they still tell the cab drivers "rapido" or "andale" or "por favor". Why, oh why do we have teams every season who in the heat of the moment revert to the few Spanish phrases they know in every single country? <sigh>

Tess - that drives me crazy, too.
Equally crazy are the ones who speak English, but with what they think is the accent of the country they're in.
Like if they're in Italy, saying, "you-a wanna take-a me to-a the air a-porta" is actually Italian. And they always look so pleased with themselves because they "know" the language.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 4:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Reader234 a private message Print Post    
What Legal posted! Altho there is another sign language I believe that is pigeon english...

The federal gov't does recognize ASL and the Deaf Culture a foreign language - (every country does have a different form of ASL/Deaf language, the Deaf Hockey Team found it difficult at times to communicate when they'd compete - there is a Deaf Olympics, the Deaf Hockey team is more of a "school" to teach Deaf/HoH kids to play hockey, then mainstream them back to their home teams - its quite remarkable! Stan Mikita and his Blackhawk friends invest lots of time to this endeavor! And they hold tryouts every 4 years for the Deaf Olympic Team and travel to other countries .... )

and it is like Spanish in that ASL does tend to give the noun, then describe it - instead of a red house its a house red - - ASL is more about the facial and body cues as it is the signs... SEE - is what it is... so in SEE I would sign every word (often with the beginning letter of the word) Would you like to go bowling with us later today? (Bowling,go, Later and Today ) you sign with the first letter of those words) ASL would be - you me bowl later, or something like that bowl later you me... body expression giving the question...


I think the teams revert to Spanish because in most countries they have knowledge of more than one language, and many times Spanish is similiar to other languages (Help on this one Legal - I know you know what I'm trying to get at - Romance languages are similiar???)

Cued Speech sounds easier than it was for me to pick up...

and I have a habit of picking up accents when I'm around them - I dont mean to be annoying, it just slips in - DS gf is originally from Russia - and she is brilliant - she learned 4 languages - (dont ask me what they are!) but she doesnt watch tv and is in college now, so I cant get her perspective on the show!! (I know can you imagine - NO TV!! They have TV they just never watch it!!)

Vsmart
Member

02-10-2003

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 4:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Vsmart a private message Print Post    
Kemal Ataturk was a nice dictator who pulled Turkey into the 20th century including using the Roman alphabet & removing veils from women. Imagine doing significant change from a committee or Congress.
The female lawyer with the curly hair last season also spoke in every language.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 5:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
It has always seemed to me that ASL can be seen as the "shorthand" version of English. Most good interpreters can keep up with spoken English which they would be hard pressed to do if they signed every word - like the system Legal uses.

When I was ten or so I had a good friend whose maternal grandparents were both deaf. They grew up long before the days of "sign language" as it exists today, but they used finger spelling. We would pop corn and sit around the fireplace with just the firelight, and they would tell stories - mostly ghost stories. Believe me, I could read finger spelling as fast as human fingers could move!

My sign language teacher had hearing until she was 8 or 9, so she had speech although it was pretty "flat." I loved that when we would be sloppy finger spelling a word, she would pound on the table and say "Quit mumbling!"

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 6:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Legalboxer a private message Print Post    
that is funny tnt - fingerspelling is actually my main means of signing, when i do sign, since that is all my friends learned when i was a kid - later in college when i became friends with deaf ed majors, my friends hated me for always fingerspelling instead of using real signs but by then it was habit... probably why i got a "C" in sign language when i took it as my foreign lang in college (i had enough of spanish and latin) - "talking" (signing to classmates) all though class probably didnt help my grade either hehe ... i think one of my best moments was in 10th grade when a substitute teacher was in our european history class one day, and right as the bell rang for class to start she accused me of talking in class - then realized i couldnt talk and yelled at me for signing too loud.. i still get a kick out of that - how can you sign too loud!

yup - romance language are all very similar ... and i think reader did a great example of how someone might say things in asl vs exact english...

Thesnark
Member

09-27-2008

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 7:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Thesnark a private message Print Post    
Knock knock
"Who's there"
Yo momma
Yo momma who?
Seriously it's yo momma, open the damn door it's locked!


Trying to lighten up this thread.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 8:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
I love this place that we can have discussions like this. It is why I really, really try to behave around here, even though I am banned from a lot of threads.



(Um, Tess? Or Somebody? You WILL jump in here and splain that I am really nice and sweet, and that it is just a whole-board joke that I am banned just because I made somebody stomp off in the hair thread about five years ago, right?)

Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 1:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Watching2 a private message Print Post    
Thanks Legal! It's Cued Speech that my friend was telling me about. He worked for a translating company and we had lunch and he was telling me about it. We lost touch and a few years later there was an article in our paper regarding a conference or whatever and my old friend was featured as a person who gave a presentation on cued speech. I knew it as soon as I saw it! :-)

I don't know why, but I always have a block as far as certain parts of the alphabet. It really ticks me off! LOL I know if I had to use it, I would remember it. I guess I'm just as bad at what I remember about Spanish. :-)

Tess - That drives me crazy, too! Remember Charla and Merna or whatever her name was? She did that ALL THE TIME. She thought she was so clever putting an accent on her words. GAH!

I know when I was in Italy as a teen, the native Italians thought the words used in the Americanized Italian & dialect used in our area cracked them up. We learned the basics before we went such as, "How much does this cost?" "Where is the bathroom?" That was an important one! hehehe

Reader - I have the tendency to pick up accents when I speak, too. Madonna has nothing on me "being British!" LOL When I'm with a friend from the south, all of a sudden I start sounding like I'm from there. When I was with an Italian friend, I'd pick up the inflections, words used, etc. When I'm not with them, I go back to speaking normally. I really can't help it. It just happens and I know it seems really pretentious to people! Arrgh! :-)

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 8:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Reader234 a private message Print Post    
Legal - I think that substitute teacher was wonderful!! She treated you like everyone else!!

When I subbed for the interpreters - for the deaf kids that were mainstreamed, we were told that if the deaf kids sign - we had to voice their signs - that they shouldnt be "allowed" to talk if the rest of the class couldnt talk! (and that never went over well with the classroom teacher! lol)

Juju you were in a "hair thread"? and you were "banned"??? I'm sure you were just "undercover"....

Tess
Member

04-13-2001

Friday, March 13, 2009 - 11:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tess a private message Print Post    
Juju, haven't you been banned from this thread yet?

Alright, I admit that I have met Juju and she is almost normal, nary an axe in sight. She's been holding my hand and looking out for me for nearly 8 years now so I let her in my folder. It is true that she does slink around and stir up trouble now and again just for giggles, though. Well, at least I giggle.

She's old. We really do need to humor her.

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 4:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyjaxmom a private message Print Post    
For what it's worth (I know I'm coming late to this party), I didn't think Luke's behavior was at all immature. I felt sorry for him since he felt so helpless. He didn't know the answer, and if I hadn't already known the answer (Phil told me) I might have been just as frustrated as him. I didn't see any tantrum or immature behavior. I just saw frustration. I felt bad for him, cause I would have been frustrated in his position, too.

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 4:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyjaxmom a private message Print Post    
P.S. I learned a lot here today! Thanks for all the enlightenment, folks. I never thought about the difference between ASL and common English. Never knew it was an issue. Thanks so much for the education I got here today!