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Makays
Member
07-12-2001
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:30 am
Wow- I agree with you guys that thought TK seemed to always encourage her. I just looked up passive aggresive to see what it meant and I didn't see TK as that in the least bit. It said that passive aggressive "it's mostly useful as a high-flown way to call someone a pain in the ass." The reason I wanted them to win and is they always seem to be having fun and were kind to each other. With R/C I hated the way he talked to her through most of the shows. So condescending- He made me cringe to think that a father would constantly harp/critisize their adult daughter like that. Ron needs to learn that it's bad behavior to act like that. If he truly loved her then he wouldn't treat her like that. Then we have the Grandfather/Grandson- they had their moments also but I would of rooted for them over R/C.
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Stacey718995
Member
07-06-2007
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:37 am
I agree Tex, one of my fav things about the board is how different people see different things. It is very eye opening. Don't take it wrong Kitt, it is a great discussion. Different points of views is what makes the board go round, of course it is nice if at least one person agrees with ya, cause I have been way out by myself in left field in opinions many of occasions!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:39 am
I think it is partly a cultural thing and partly the way specific families relate. For example, when I was growing up, two of my friends came from very different families. One family who happened to be French was very loud and boisterous. They were always yelling at each other and oh my the cursing that went on was something fierce. They also laughed a lot as well. My other friend's family was very polite and civil. They never raised their voices and they never swore. Guess which family really loved each other? Now I don't at all mean to imply that yelling and cursing is necessarily a good thing. IMO it generally isn't the way you want to behave as a family. All I am suggesting is that family relationships are different for everyone and what works for one family may not work for another. In some cultures and families the Father has a very dominant role (LOL – not in mine though).
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:43 am
While I don't agree with it, I understand Kit's perspective and how she could interpret the relationship that way. I think that is an example of how passive aggressive behavior is difficult to identify and understand. It is often subtle and people's actions are very open to interpretation. Personally, I loved their relationship. It sounds like he has made a huge difference in her confidence and in her life and that is not something that we would see as a result of passive aggressive behavior on his part.
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Makays
Member
07-12-2001
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:58 am
The same article I got my reference from also states this about Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder. -I looked it up as I wasn't sure what PAPD was. According to the revised third edition (DSM-III-R, 1987), someone had PAPD if he displayed five or more of the following behaviors: (1) procrastinates, (2) sulks or argues when asked to do something he doesn't want to do, (3) works inefficiently on unwanted tasks, (4) complains without justification of unreasonable demands, (5) "forgets" obligations, (6) believes he is doing a much better job than others think, (7) resents useful suggestions, (8) fails to do his share, or (9) unreasonably criticizes authority figures.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 10:05 am
I think the following might also be an example of passive aggressive behavior. Someone completes a task and the person "compliments" her by saying: "Well that wasn't great but you did a lot better than I thought you would." It's not purely negative but it sure isn't positive either. Of course, IMO, TK never acted that way. I think he was sincerely positive about Rachel's accomplishments on the race.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 10:58 am
Rachel seems very happy with her relationship with TK and that's the most important thing. Too bad they never had to do any swimming tasks...I'll bet TK could have ruled at that! I'm glad they won. TK didn't take the stress of the final leg very well though. He really seemed anxious (and they did seem to have really bad luck with cabs). I don't think he really stressed out until the finish line was almost in sight.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:05 am
Even when they were so far behind and thought they were out and then all during the next leg, they both acted so nicely to each other. That's really when I began to like them. My husband is passive agressive in regards to time management. I am anal about being on time and he purposely goes slow to aggravate me! LOL
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:18 am
Jimmer's example is the sort of thing I was talking about. Another example would be when someone "doesn't hear" what you said, so they're not being aggressive, which would be saying "I don't want to do that" they're just not letting you have your side of the argument and all along have the excuse that they didn't hear you, so you're not allowed to be angry at them. Oh yes, Texannie's example is perfect too. It's when people don't address the issue directly, but use underhand methods to get their own way. I do appreciate how, even though none of you agree with me, you're all being so respectful of my opinion.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:37 am
now, speaking as someone who doesn't hear well if there is background noise...it's not always passive agressive! 
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Jasper
Member
09-14-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:55 am
How about this: "I'm so bored, but as long as YOU'RE having a good time, that's all that really matters" Talk about taking the wind out of your sails!
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Prisonerno6
Member
08-31-2002
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:40 pm
The classic definition of being passive aggressive to get your way (aggressive) by not doing something (being passive). Texannie's time management example is perfect. Wife: "We need to leave at 2:00." Husband: "We don't need to be there until 3:00, so we don't really need to leave until 2:15." Wife: "But the roads are bad, and there's lots of traffic today, and if we're late we won't get a parking space, so we really need to leave at 2:00 to be on the safe side." Husband: "OK, if you want to leave at 2:00, we'll leave at 2:00." (At 2:00) Wife: "Are you ready to go?" Husband: "Almost, I'll be down in 2 minutes." Wife: "We need to get going." Husband: "If you stop bothering me, I can get ready faster." Wife: "You agreed we should leave at 2:00." Husband: "We're only a couple of minutes late." (At 2:15) Husband: "OK, I'm ready now." That's being passive aggressive.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:49 pm
You forgot somewhere in there..."You know we don't always have to be the first ones there"
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:50 pm
One key thing to remember is that Rachel has not given any indication that she thinks that TK is passive aggressive or reacts in a way that suggests that she has been negatively affected. Even if he is passive aggressive she has reacted to it in a positive way. You can see that in the way she glows when she talks about how supportive TK has been and how he has changed her outlook on life. They have been a positive influence in each other's lives and that is wonderful to see.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:34 pm
OK, one example of what I meant (that I've been able to find a clip of) is in the Osaka to Taiwan episode with that floating garden that was at the top of a skyscraper. TK: What the hell is a floating garden? Rachel: I don't know but it must be down here TK: This is the sky building right? Rachel: yeah TK: it says the floating gardens observatory, it's gotta be the right place Both go inside, facing escalators Rachel: I don't think we should go up, if it's in a garden I think we should go down TK: whatever, let's just go up. Going up in an elevator Rachel: this all feels wrong, I don't know why TK: I think we're going the right way, I'm not sure why you know you're worrying so much you're being negative Rachel: it doesn't say anything about an observatory TK: this makes sense to me Rachel: ok At the top of the tower, they can't see the clue (although they actually walked by it) TK: this is ridiculous Rachel: this probably can't be right TK: ok well we can cry about it or we can just keep looking Rachel: I'm not crying! TK: do you see anything up here? Next clip is them walking around the roof again and seeing the cluebox TK: how did we run right by it? Rachel: we were freaking out that's why TK: thank god we didn't go back down Rachel: yes TK discounts Rachel's opinion with his "whatever"; when she worries about whether they're going the right way he says she's being negative, a statement on her personality, rather than on their situation (she could be right after all); then when they're at the top and still can't find the clue he says she's crying about it when she was just stating her opinion in an adult way. At the end he also said "thank god we didn't go back down" which may have been a dig, as she was the one who wanted to go down, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on that one, as it was a valid statement. He says it all in his usual laid back voice but I see it as him walking over her and suppressing her personality, not by saying what she says is wrong, but by saying her personality is wrong - she's being negative, she's crying about it, etc. It's a high stress situation and if this is the worst he ever is to her then it's nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it stuck out to me as a warning sign. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yrbOfA3SIOA from about 6minutes in and then just a few seconds on this: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NopUsnGLK5I
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:50 pm
I appreciate you digging that up Kitt but I honestly don't see much there.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:08 pm
Kitt, you're not the only one who wasn't enamoured by TK. I can't put my finger on what it is, but he didn't thrill me much either. He just seemed okay, not horrible like some of the racers, but not someone I'd really want to hang with. 
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:32 pm
Kitt, I remember the time you're talking about, when Rachel had forgotten a clue somewhere and he said he was so "disappointed." I didn't take it as P/A, though, just frustrated. He used the same expression about himself in the OC Register article when he was talking about not being able to see the clue from the ultralight in Italy, "That was probably the most down and disappointed I was in the whole race." I know how sometimes someone can say something that strikes a nerve, though, and it's hard to forget.
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:50 pm
And I still think he'd be a lot more handsome if he'd shave off that nasty beard and maybe comb his hair! 
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 3:52 pm
I remember that situation, but didn't get that impression at all. but, like you said, kitt, you are more sensitive to it. You forgot somewhere in there..."You know we don't always have to be the first ones there" or...you know, they are always late. THEY ARE LATE BECAUSE THEY ARE THINKING THE SAME THING ABOUT US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ok..carry on! LOL
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:29 pm
I finally got to watch the show.. good show! I posted a couple of articles from the local paper here in the general thread.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:36 pm
LOL.. I see one link above.. so I'm slow. (back an archive)
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 7:59 pm
Kitt, I understand what you are saying and after they won TK's words about her were along those lines.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:14 pm
I just remembered something from maybe the first or second episode of this season. They had a task, maybe in Italy? where they had to haul furniture up about five stories using a pulley, and they had to tie up the furniture and hoist it up there. And TK couldn't figure out how to tie the ropes, so they decided Rachel better do the task pretty early on, even though obviously TK should have been much better at hoisting. And that tiny woman came down and tied up all that furniture and hoisted it up the five floors. And THAT is why they deserved to win.
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Spear
Member
08-06-2001
| Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:03 am
Ahh, that's funny -- I remember now why I got a bad impression of TK early in the race and it was because of that same furniture hauling Detour (in the Netherlands)! I watched it again -- TK got very frustrated and was taking it out on Rachel. Examples: Rachel (giving instructions from apartment window): You go through the first loop that you made before you start making the second two. TK: I don't think you're going to be able to explain it from up there, okay? Rachel (pulling on rope): (sigh) Why is this not working now? TK: Because I don't think you know what you're doing. Rachel: That one doesn't have to be quite as tight. TK: Can you stop talking now? Eventually, TK did let Rachel take over. He behaved much better over the rest of the race that I forgot about this incident. Thanks for reminding me Juju! 
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