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Archive through March 28, 2011

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: The Amazing Race ARCHIVES: Amazing Race XVIII: 6th Show -- Mar. 27th, 2011: Archive through March 28, 2011 users admin

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Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Kar, we don't know, but we do know they were at the Ganesha task with the Trotters and the Trotters had to re-paint and re-dress.. they simply were not hours behind them.. of course there is editing but we cannot selectively edit In what we don't see.. why would we assume that LUKE was exhausted from vomiting, but no one else? He just reacted poorly in comparison and this isn't the first time he has done that.

And Luke isn't 16 and what many of us are saying is that she seems to have sheltered this 25 year old a bit to his detriment.

I still compare to Zev who is autistic and not that much older.

I wasn't outraged by Zev but a bit surprised. But then, maybe there was lots of smashing we just didn't see? Just kidding..

And while I don't care for Margie, in this particular task, she was very supportive and I did like how she reminded him that he hated having given up in the past and that gave him incentive to say yes, he'd keep going. I'm quite sure he's happy he completed the task and that they did paint their Ganesha statue and they did go to the pitstop. Others have been embarrassed by not completing, taking penalties, having Phil come to them and Margie and Luke didn't have to endure that.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
So I guess what we're saying is that some forms of crying are acceptable for men, but not others? I'm not buying it. I just don't think that's a psychologically healthy view. We simply do not know what Luke has gone thru, and why he reacts the way he does.

Zev was absolutely outrageous at the zodiac challenge, but he was not nearly frowned on as much. And so was Vyxen for that whole show, but I guess since she's a woman that's okay?

This is the issue with people who have disabilities -visible and invisible ones. There is more that we don't know than we know, and I just think it is better to be more tender, and more supportive and less harsh. That's the way I would want to be treated in my least attractive moments, so I treat others the same.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
As far as I'm concerned the crying issue is a red herring.

What I am saying is some behavior is better than others. Is that wrong? We make those sorts of judgements or offer those sorts of opinions here all the time based on what we have seen and the evidence available to us.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
So am I. But I'm not saying that some forms of crying are better than others, because we already have such a screwed up view of male crying.

So, yes, I would rather see the behavior "crying" than quitting, screaming at your partner, swearing or breaking things.

Some people need to vent their frustration and fears in order to continue the task at hand. Crying is a far better alternative than the other things I mentioned.

And the difference is one of the issues I see as a problem in society. Rather than showing our grief and fear, we yell and scream and rage. Because yelling and screaming feels more powerful than crying and sniveling.

But in actuality, rage/anger is a destructive way of venting frustration, while crying is a healthy way.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, I don't think the crying is a red herring - I think it IS the issue. Because when Zev got frustrated on the zodiac task, we didn't see the same kind of judgment. And when Vyxen got frustrated and almost gave up and cried, we didn't see it then either.

And yes, people make those judgments here all the time, and I am making mine too. :-)

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
I loved it when Luke finally finished the task and the Indian gentlemen treated him like a sports hero. You could see how badly they felt for him while he was struggling to the nth degree with this task, and how much they respected him and were so joyous for him when he completed it. It was my fave moment of the show. And I was blown away by how gentle, kind and supportive of him, the GTs were! Wish more people were like that, IRL.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Mame, what a lovely post! I agree.

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
Me three!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, I don't think the crying is a red herring - I think it IS the issue.

Well it isn't the issue for me. But I don't seem to be able to convince you of that. :-)

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, it may or may not be the issue for you, however, I'm speaking overall here. FWIW, I did not see the same kind of judgment over the folks who were equally frustrated in previous episodes. For example, both Zev and Vyxen were a hot mess during the zodiac challenge.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
How about when Mike cried with his Dad? Mike and Mel are both men and I didn't see the same kind of judgement there either.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Yes, some crying is acceptable (in our culture), as I pointed out earlier. Like the basketball teams.

That's why I don't understand why Luke's crying is unacceptable. It's just the way he deals with frustration, like some people quit and some people rage.

I don't really have a problem with people saying he doesn't deal with frustration well. But most are pointing out that he *cried*, as if it's a big issue. And making it a guy thing: But I can't begin to tell you what I think most guys would think watching Luke's performance.

Colordeagua
Member

10-24-2003

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Colordeagua a private message Print Post    
Maybe he has some maturing to do, but that isn't something anyone can make him do. He has to do it on his own as he can

And maybe Margie isn't letting him.

Aurora
Member

11-24-2006

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Aurora a private message Print Post    
I think that with Luke, we've seen this type of behavior several times during his two seasons on the show, so when we see it once again and hear him once again saying "It's too hard", it's kind of a , "there he goes again", reaction. That's my simplified version of what I think is going on.

On another note, Ganesha is a male Indian deity, not female. So no, he isn't pregnant. :-)

ETA: As someone up-thread mentioned. This is a race for $1,000,000. You should be going into it knowing it will be hard or don't go.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
I'm with Sean, I relished Luke's departure! And it has nothing to do with men crying and everything to do with my preception of him being rather immature, for any age. OMG, really that tea task was so overwhelming for him??? Give me a break, adios Luke and don't ever come back on my TV screen.

Merrysea
Moderator

08-13-2004

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Merrysea a private message Print Post    
And maybe Margie isn't letting him.

I really don't see any indication that Margie isn't letting Luke grow up. From all the bad behavior we've seen on the race over the years, the only time I've ever heard the mother blamed for it was in the case of Margie/Luke and Susan/Patrick, the only two (since I've been watching TAR) who were mother/son teams. I keep hearing how Margie is a helicopter mom, like somehow the fact that she's always around him during the race is a negative thing, in spite of the fact that teams all have to stick together all the time (at least while they're on camera).

I've seen plenty of people on TAR throw fits, I've seen plenty complain of it being too hard, and I've seen plenty of people encouraging and consoling their partner. The only difference I see with Margie and Luke is that they are mother and son.

As for the tea challenge, after drinking (and throwing up) gallons of tea, I imagine Luke was probably feeling pretty ill. Having to keep drinking the tea would be extremely difficult! (I know that when I throw up any type of food, the last thing I want to do is eat or drink more of it!)

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
I suppose part of my view on this is having worked with so many people with disabilities over the last few years. I'm sure that has changed my perspective on just how much more difficult it is growing up and simply doing the every day things every one does.

Do we have some moms who hover? Sure. And we teach them self awareness as well. It can be very very very hard to know when to step in and when not to. Our new instructors especially and even our seasoned ones have the same issue. As do our volunteers.

One of the most educational experiences we do every year is for families. We give them a 'simulated disability' and throw them on a horse. All of a sudden those tough-talking parents have a whole new perspective on how much more difficult life is for their kiddos. And those who overdo actually find they can do more than they thought, or have a new perspective on when to help and when to step back.

Like Merry, as a mother/son duo, I do think there's may still be a societal prejudice about this relationship.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
But I can't begin to tell you what I think most guys would think watching Luke's performance.

Yes I wrote that. But Kar you also pointed out that it is a problem in society today. What is the difference between you pointing it out and me pointing it out? Plus I never mentioned the crying until the subject was raised by someone else.

You see, from my perspective, it's not the crying (as I tried to demonstrate by using the Mike and Mel example). It's his overall behavior and specifically his inclination to whine and give up early. As I mentioned, even his Mom stated that he has an issue with getting frustrated.

I also agree that society still has some discomfort over mother/son relationships where the mother is perceived as interfering with the adult son's independence (hence the bad mother in law stereotype).

Tkmitch
Member

05-12-2006

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tkmitch a private message Print Post    
I'm not getting all the Luke and Margie dislike. IMO I liked them and was sad to see them go. I love the Globetrotters and thought that they showed true heart by encouraging Luke and wishing them luck. I'm sure they all know it's going to be hard, since it's the second time playing. And I think that was a tuff roadblock. For myself, I can't wait for Christina and Ron to be gone. No one seems to comment on her constant Daddy, Daddy...and his nasty temper!

Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
But Luke was treated differently by the Indians in that they applauded him.

I am saying that even if they did so in a nice way, the Indians were acting like Luke was different from the others. A tea tasting task was certainly a level playing field.

Scooterrific
Member

07-08-2005

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Scooterrific a private message Print Post    
I believe they treated him differently because he was there so long. Not because he was deaf.

Nerovh
Member

06-12-2005

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nerovh a private message Print Post    
Hahahaha, I've made plenty of comments about Ron and Christina. I believe I said in another thread that if I was stuck on that shuttle with Ron, I would have jumped off, too!

The actual crying I can deal with, the "It's too hard, it's too hard!" and the just walking away from the task again and again while there WERE STILL other teams there was probably what sent me over the edge. I didn't enjoy Zev at the Zodiac challenge or Zev's breaking the cup at the tea challenge, but he was still hauling hiney while he did it. If a contestant can cry WHILE still giving it their all, then have at it!

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
So the discussion continued while I was out driving..

Since I only mentioned tears one time in this thread and in that post said they were fine or not a problem, I'm not considering those comments to be directed to me.

I think I was one of the first to comment on how nice it was to see the way Luke was treated by those running that challenge. We've seen challenges where bystanders snickered, rolled eyes, guffawed and practically rolled on the floor laughing (remembering the Russian women at one task, the people watching the cheese rolling task and so many other instances) and after all he had been through, it was nice that they clapped.

I still don't know why there are assumptions that Luke and only Luke threw up or that others who undoubtedly threw up (and I'm only going on RFF mod Peach who gathers so much spoiling, assuring us that there was lots of throwing up during this task, even though we didn't see it).. I believe that people, plural, threw up. So now sure why only Luke should get sympathy for that.

And of course in a race for a million dollars, historically there have been some very difficult tasks, as there should be, and some where throwing up would have been the best relief but they had to consume and keep down some things much more repulsive than tea.

Anyway, I'm glad they are gone and not the Globetrotters. I do agree with Sean in his blog that this was one leg of the race when Margie and Luke couldn't get information or answers but just had to do the tasks and it just wasn't Luke's day for this task.

And I would hate to have lost the Globetrotters! They really have been consistantly kind.

I think I already said that this leg didn't give any room for error.. they all tried the tea and got on the same flight and then sat outside that gate for hours (after various hair-raising rides from the airport) and they all got their clues pretty much together, there was no sign up sheet to favor the first teams. Really the only place where a team could have been helped was if another team told them to look under the bottle cap, but that didn't seem to happen for anyone.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 2:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
Just want to make it clear my dislike of Luke has nothing to do with him being deaf. He's whinny, immature and rather child like. The tea fiasco for him couldn’t have been more fair in regards to his deafness. He needs to grow up. And it just occurred to me I don't know how old he is, I'd guess 21 or 22 and even if he were 18 or 19 he should deal with the ups and downs of the race better. He or people shouldn't give him a pass on poor personality just because he's deaf.

Gurliegirl
Member

06-20-2006

Monday, March 28, 2011 - 2:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gurliegirl a private message Print Post    
LMAO! Mods, do we need to Mod you three?
I love how you're all so passionate about your stances on this.

I'm also happy that Luke & Margie are gone. Not necessarily just because of the whining (which is more annoying than the crying), but because they haven't really done anything on their own all season. Several haven't and most of them need to go too. This is a personal race to win $1,000,000. They have to be able to complete tasks on their own. Margie & Luke couldn't so they're out. Who's next? We'll see in two weeks.